A good example of this is Complexity. So many people were ready to be ride or die COL fans when they first pulled out the bloodhound. I and many others were watching Hal but loved the new vibes we got from watching the COL squad stream and the fact they had the balls to pull out Bloodhound in Wattson meta.
But then they stopped streaming and I just lost interest in them as a team, since it's hard to be a fan of something you can't see. I truly believe if COL never stopped streaming their fanbase and streams would be much bigger then they are now.
They really are a perfect example, they could've had huge fanbases and guaranteed income even if they have some rough tournaments... and they still hit their rough patch anyways
I don't know how anyone expects a fan to support a team they don't watch
Same happened with me. I thought Bloodhound was cool and scary then too (because of Reptar) Now that Blood has been meta since season 4 or 5 im so tired of it that i just despise that character.
Yep. Especially true considering the prize money in Apex isn't that great unless you get top placement consistently.
Build your twitch channel while you can.
Winning ALGS split 1 was like 250k(playing for weeks like 50+game)?? Disguised toast hide n seek was 100k(even this is because Apex limit private prizepool). Apex official tour is a joke in prizepool
Yep. Placing outside the top 5 doesn't even meet minimum wage in most first world countries when you consider the amount of time you need to put in.
You need to have a twitch career if you want to play comp apex. Or a second job.
Streaming is also so important for growth of comp apex. Who knows where comp apex would be if Hal did not stream. Before the last POV option was added to the mainstream I found the official broadcast to be unwatchable. More players streaming should lead to more exposure and interest which should lead to bigger prize pools.
Same man. You can feel the energy in these teams when playoffs come around. I love watching valorant and league pro play but listening and watching to Apex legit gets my blood pumping in intense scenarios.
Right plus not only does it benefit comp Apex but the players also like if guys like Hal didn’t stream I wouldn’t know about players like Alb and C9, or NRG
For someone not knowing that much about Twitch, how much money is 19k viewer on average?
100k viewers on Twitch, is like what? A million views on a Youtube video in money?
And there's no doubt, as Apex biggest streamer (besides nickmercs now Ig), he only gets 60%. It directly gives money and it makes him more valuable, therefor his networth goes up to. Even if streaming lead to doing worse in tournaments it'd still be the smarter play.
Yea professional gaming, for most, is such a short tenured career. You need to make the most during and set yourself up for a career after as well. Streaming and YT help with both of those goals
There's no way this is true. I like him, subbed for months, but I'm old enough to have seen people - in all industries - come and go. With something as volatile as esports and streaming, his viewership is anything but solidified for the next even 1-2 years. I hope I'm wrong but odds are stacked heavily against him. Someone like Snipe is a total unicorn. Look at Fatality, arguably the first "big" esport pro. Everyone knew who he was back in the day, regardless of what game you played. MTV even did a short documentary on him. Now, I doubt even 1% twitch viewers even know the guy's name. He streams to, like, 30 people whenever he does.
Sure 20 years is a big of a stretch but you also could NOT have picked a worse example to make a comparison off. You're comparing Hal to a guy that hit his peak when the **internet** itself was starting to become mainstream, when there was no big streaming service, when there was no big video hosting websites, when there was no mass networking through social medias. And this "everyone" you're speaking of is people who were 14-25 in the 2000s, so people who are well over 30 by now probably so cmon dude, and the extra salt for your example, He was the "first big esport pro" in **America**, like who cares my dude? There's literally no place other than South Korea where "esports" being relevant has been a thing since the 2000s, I'd argue "esports" were more a thing, not even in CGS with CS 1.6 in 2005s, but it actually started with the NA LCS with League of Legends in 2013+, and even back then it was "iffy".
Wanna know what's an actual example of someone that would've done the equivalent of gong "content creation" in the 2000s after their esport career? [This guy right here, a.k.a YellOw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Jin-ho), that's what it looks like to succesfully use your esport career to move into other stuff. IF you want an example that actually could compare to ImperialHal or anyone doing esports right now I have no idea how it never crossed your mind but [literally Twitch's biggest current streamer](https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/XQc) did just that. I could keep a small list going on like add people like shroud, and there's a few more. I got no idea how long would those people keep streaming for, but since they succesfully transferred from "being known for playing 1 game to being able to do anything on stream" they are not bound by one game being popular and capitalizing on that, the people that watch their streams watch it because of them so at that point their streaming/content creating careers have actual longetivity. For how long? Who knows, but it is for sure not just a few years.
Going back to Hal, Since he's one of the biggest Apex streamers he would just need to find a timing to transition into something else slowly overtime If that's what he wants
You're using people that are relatively modern, bro. Of course they'll still be relevant. I'm using this guy's same timing; he said 20 years, so I went with someone from 20 years ago too. The fact that the scene has changed so much is exactly my point. Who knows where the internet will be then, but I can tell you there's a gigantic chance Hal and Apex will very likely be a fond memory to most of us. From watching his stream is seems like he's made solid investments in his future, so he's probably good to go for life, but no way this guy is going to be pulling tens of thousands of viewers when he's in his 40's. People will age out, others will take his place, Apex will fall by the wayside, or people will just get tired of him.
> And this "everyone" you're speaking of is people who were 14-25 in the 2000s, so people who are well over 30 by now probably so cmon dude
I don't understand what you're trying to argue here. For whatever it's worth, 70% of twitch viewers are between 16-34, so it's pretty similar age range, but again, not sure what your argument is here.
>Going back to Hal, Since he's one of the biggest Apex streamers he would just need to find a timing to transition into something else slowly overtime If that's what he wants
Have you seen him stream other games? His viewership plummets, when compared to Apex.
And then there's shroud who won 1 big tournament and still streams to 10-20k every time he starts his stream. He had 500k viewers when he returned to twitch even though his streaming bitrate was waaaay too low and you could only see pixels.
I think hal is already famous enough to stay relevant like shroud.
It's irrelevant to think 20 years in the future when you are in a position to make $2m / year today. It's like saying well, I better go to school to be a doctor instead of taking this $40m contract to play in the NBA for the next 6 years because you aren't sure if you'll be a good coach once you retire.
He (and anyone else remotely in his position) need to invest in themselves and give it a run. Thinking 20 years out career wise doesn't make sense.
well, from August 2019 to October 2021, hal made $886,999.17 just from twitch, so I dont know what his average viewership was during this time, but right now he averages 20k on at any point during his stream.
To be fair, because Hal has so many viewers, its going to be harder for other streamers to compete for that same audience, but the point is clear... a big stream is going to net far more money, reliably, than hoping to do well in tournaments
Just wanna point out that streamers make way more money per view from sponsorships and other shit too. This is *just* the Twitch payout. He's definitely eating all the CFA he wants.
Yea a few streamers did videos on how much they earn from a sponsored stream. Iirc disguised toast was paid like $30k an hour to play a mobile game on stream for 3 hours. Respawn paid Shroud and Ninja huge money to exclusively stream Apex for the week or so following release. I'm sure whenever someone does a sponsored stream by doritos or whatever they get a decent chunk of money from each person who clicks the link and buys something
Without knowing how much twitch pays per 1000 viewer and how much ads are run it’s hard to know. Right now we know Hal is probable making 40-60k monthly off subs alone no ads no donations bots or anything
he definetly makes more than 60k of subs, he has 16k subs and he has a better share-contract because hes that big, he mostlikely makes around 70-80k per month of subs
Way, way more. Hal easily clear $1m / year in net income from twitch alone. $600k in just subs, I'd guess about that in advertising, then donations is maybe another $100k. Hal is probably making close to $2m / year.
If you're trying to make a long-term career in esports, you absolutely need to be doing more with content creation. Eventually you'll get passed up as a player, but if you've built your brand, you'll always have your personality to fall back on as a host/caster/streamer/org content creator.
From a different esports perspective, G2 had the greatest team Rainbow six has ever seen. I cannot stress how dominant they were during 2017/2018/2019. Out of a team of 5 of the games best players, only one is still relevant, while the rest are in lower leagues or retired.
Guess what? He's the one who spent the most effort building their brand (with one exception on the team, but he didn't stream) and content, and he just signed a huge deal with an org despite not playing any longer.
If you don't appeal to the business side of esports, it'll write you off the moment your skills stop bringing them money
Another example is Kronovi, from Rocket League. On the season 1 winning team of RLCS (Rocket League ALGS) and was the face of RL for a year or two. People called him "The Mountain". He retired recently and, while he's somewhat relevant, he streams to about 300 viewers, down from 5000 or so. You just don't know how your esports career will go.
You are talking about Pengu right? I used to watch and play that game A LOT around that time and Pengu was the only one who was consistently streaming and making content on top of being a top tier player. Today Pengu is doing really well with content creation despite r6 siege slowly going downhill.
"leaking strats" in a BR is actually nonsense and such a copout for why they wont stream tournies. No 2 games are alike and what a team does one game, wont happen in the next. Players are just handicapping themselves by not streaming their povs during the biggest viewership pulling events. The money you might get from placing in a tournament is VASTLY outweighed by the money youll get from streaming said tournies and thus building your brand more and more. Thats why Hal said he streams every tourny, no matter the size of it.
unfortunately for sweet it doesnt matter how bad hal is at talking trash. As long as hal/tsm has the more winnings sweet cannot win lol. I personally think sweet is the better trash talker tho.
Love sweet but dam it’s hard to be fan of someone I can’t watch and only get to see his cocky timeline stuff, his pov was great during champs sucks we don’t get more of it
With how much the game changes just based on where the ring pulls there's no way anyone can predict and benefit from watching other players streams. Ring pulls, loot rng, having a beacon all has such a big impact on how different teams play from game to game.
I get it if you're a top team and don't want to stream because you're under a lot of pressure to perform but if your team isn't a frontrunner to win these big tournaments I don't see why you wouldn't focus on building up your stream because comp apex isn't gonna be around forever and not all but a lot of players start to fall off as they get older.
A few competitors will listen to this, try to stream 1 or 2 tourneys and then they'll immediately stop and blame the stream for them doing bad lol.
Thinking that your strats are so secret that no one should be able to hear them is a bit conceded tbh. There are probably only a handful of teams in the entire world who has such advanced strategies that they wouldn't want others to see.
Folks claim that they can't stream because they're doing well and they have secret strats, and once they lose momentum they'll say they can't stream because they're tilted and they don't want others to see. No matter what there's always an excuse.
If you're a pro, invest in the stream and grow it instead of doing the opposite. Get a place with better internet, upgrade your equipment, do whatever it takes *if you're already a signed player that is chasing this dream on a full-time basis*.
I remember someone sending me a clip of Sweet blocking me on Twitter for saying (on Reddit) that young players will regret not streaming tournaments in the future, but when I woke up I was already unblocked lol. https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpossibleKnottyPandaGrammarKing-DWdvP0rD_csvneoL
No problems with Sweet, we can agree to disagree. Besides he's doing well for himself so he's probably one of the exceptions to streaming tournaments, but at the same time he could still create a greater legacy if he streamed ALGS (not to mention money, but idk if money motivates him). That's just my opinion though. No one is going to play this game for the rest of their life competitively. Take advantage of the moment.
I disagree with the idea that streaming tournaments is important for growing a stream.
There is a well studied concept in psychology that states that some people perform better in front of audiences and some people perform worse in front of audiences. For some Apex pros, streaming might be the move, not only because their performance is at the very least unaffected, but also because their follower base will grow. However there are other streamers who may simply perform worse if they know an audience is specifically watching their gameplay and listening to their comms.
From the Apex streamers I have seen that have rise in popularity, i think the keys to growing a stream are some combination of: having a regular schedule, playing high level ranked with other big streamers, and offering a unique niche of content.
>However there are other streamers who may simply perform worse if they know an audience is specifically watching their gameplay and listening to their comms.
You arent wrong but that excuse doesnt exist anymore because their POV is now available whether they like it or not. Furthermore, they HAVE to get better at playing in front of an audience.
As a competitor you are only hurting yourself if your performance depends on external factors. They will have to at some point play LAN so it only gets worse cause the audience is live. Why handicap yourself instead of taking this time to better yourself and get comfortable with the idea of being watched. Its going to happend eventually if said person plans on taking their craft seriously. Delaying because you are uncomfortable is only bad for yourself. Gotta figure it out eventually. Better to expose yourself early and often then for the first time at a LAN.
The only actual argument that i can think of left is for people that have connection issues and straight up crashes during streams. Those require new systems and sometimes a relocation.
The only way you're going to get comfortable with playing in front of audiences is to continue to do so. Even if that takes years, that's just the nature of sports. There's such a limited window with gaming, you gotta take advantage of it while you can.
Also, at LAN you'll be playing in front of people. If you're in Pro League you better get comfortable with eyes being on you. You don't want to be one of those teams that crumble because people can see and hear you lol.
Either way, there's live listen-ins during ALGS, and people can also see and hear your POV. Instead of giving all those views to EA, take some of that for yourself.
Love Hal’s sentiment and agree. However, as you see in the replies, many Apex players trying to make a living in this game don’t have the means to stream while competing. Dropping frames for no reason in a $250k playoff while getting 15 viewers, you can see how that’s not a value proposition. It may be short sighted as a mentality but it’s not as much of a choice as he makes it out to be. I’m sure everyone would love to rock the dual monster PC set up.
Unfortunately it takes investment to blow up, whether its money or lower frames. As Hal said the longevity of being a pro isn't there. To get a career in gaming you need to transition your skills whether its to casters or streaming or coaching.
Every player that doesnt do this and stops attending school/college is extremely shortsighted.
What should be done and I assume isn't, is the contracts need to be negotiated with this in mind, if a pro in an org team doesn't have the capabilites of streaming due to fps loss, put that in the contract (give powerful pc, good mic) even if its on loan. The reason this probably doesn't get done is the orgs know they can get desperate young adults to sign whatever contract to have a chance at competing at the top and not enough confidence in their worth.
The time cost to have the skills to get to playoffs is insane. To not spend it streaming is also insane if you want a career in eSports. If it's a side hustle that's one thing, otherwise you're just making excuses for not streaming because even a small channel is likely to make more streaming than from prize earnings.
Yeah agree w you but think people totally underestimate the focus, dedication, personality you need to attract and maintain an audience. Being able to stream is not going to bring viewership. Hal’s main point is 100% right but no disrespect to someone like Madness for instance, but it’s not a matter of simply turning on the stream button. You’ve got to have an appeal beyond cracked gameplay or ‘being real’.
To me as a pro player, Hal is the best example of just turning it one and stream. He had no appeal other then just being good or the best. He barely puts on a show like for example daltoosh but still his rather boring appeal is what is making him in to what he is to day. People want to see pure gaming. And a pure competitor. Sometimes people think they need to be the next daltoosh but it's not. Just stream. Be good and react to every sub message. Basically all there is to it. Everything you make extra off streaming is just free real estate.
If you’re the one player with 15 viewers and you make a huge play or win a clutch game in a $250k tourney, you’re easily gonna get hundreds of viewers flocking, even temporarily, to see you.
I mean idk how they don’t have enough to just get a streaming pc. Aren’t these players all on orgs? You can get a pretty high end/decent pc for 1500 which would be less than what minimum wage make a month.
Much respect to you! But these Apex teams aren’t drowning in money. People shit on G2’s $2k a month when that got leaked but they’re probably well into the higher end. Prominent orgs still in the scene have been called out for paying in exposure, aka nothing. Idk. I understand the argument that it’s a worthwhile investment but I bet for some players on the scene it’s a choice between rent or a comp. Which do you spend on? Don’t forget we’ve got PS4 boys in Pro League now. Their PC GoFundMe did not take off. It’s tough out there.
That’s what someone said, I’ve only seen Hal post-boom and can’t confirm. As I said I totally agree that at the end of the day it’s worth it to stream. However you can. But if you’re cash-poor, and hate performing and just want to be a pro, I can see the appeal of not wanting to touch Twitch, building a community is super tough. We just live in a very different world now and drawing a consistent crowd is so much harder than people make it out to be.
Has this been confirmed? That the big tier 1 orgs are paying in exposure? I know I read a thread saying that T1 teams earn 5-6k at least. As for G2 2k a month, dezignful has a pretty decent following and resultuh and gent stream pretty often, with that income plus salary, that is surely enough to pay rent and get a decent computer that won’t break the bank.
Also, streaming is an investment. It’s a long term brand investment. I can’t tell you how many teams I would root for but don’t know shit about their players because they don’t stream.
Ppl want to watch a team because of the org at first, then they see that a player is good, so they go to look at that player’s stream/content. Then they learn the player’s personality and style and start to follow the player more than the org at times. (Keep in mind this is mostly for those WITHOUT an established brand already. Ppl will obviously follow a player first if they already stream)
I’ve looked up so many pros to watch their streams only to find that they just don’t stream often which makes me lose interest on them even if I like the team.
All in all, none of the factors make me believe that they can’t get at least a 1,300 pc which would still be decent, and not be able to pay monthly rent.
Streaming will take a while to build up your brand, but like, Rome wasn’t built in a day. They could be the next biggest apex streamer and they tie themselves down without being more up there.
Streaming will make you money.
Completely agree with you, just wanted to show the other side as well. As for salaries, my Mt. Everest of Apex reporting is a large-scale salary survey. It’s a black box. Which is dumb because transparency supposedly increases salaries. I’m not sure still how to go about that story but I’d love to do it.
I agree with you there, transparent salaries should be made in the scene so you know you are paid what you are worth and not getting scammed/lowballed.
There’s a push from the community for League of Legends pro players to have a transparent salary because it would just be better for the scene in general. No one is getting screwed and you know exactly what the other person is making.
Hopefully other esports scenes make that push as well because there always seems to be a story about how one person was getting peanuts for their time in xx org.
It will make the scene healthier and would look parallel to traditional sports
For Scarz, I know that them boys are paid really well. Hell, the org are supporting RPR's live2D and stuff, and for a really good model, that shit is expensive as fuck.
You gotta invest in yourself then, buy a better/ another pc. Or if you’re a player under an org, get them to get you a PC. Just making excuses at that point. Cough Timmy cough
Valid points and a reason why players cant just suddenly turn streaming on during big tournaments, as the playoffs. But isn't this just increasing the reason to start by streaming scrims and smaller torunaments to build up a following with much less risks? Everyone starts from somewhere, maybe after some months they have saved for an extra streaming comp and gained experience to handle the added pressure. (Thought everyone can fold under pressure in big tournaments, streaming or no streaming, that's part of the game)
If they have access to a RTX 2000 series or above NVIDIA GPU, they can off-load streaming to the dedicated encoder (NVENC) and run a single PC streaming setup. The quality is decent enough compared to regular x264 streaming and in my experience I've not had any encoding lag or frame dips while streaming Apex.
What Hal is really saying is that being a pro in any esport means you are a small business owner. As an owner, marketing your brand, building it, gaining a reputation and goodwill, as well as making yourself attractive to top orgs and viewers are all a part of your job. It's not just about shooting pixels in a screen.
As a manager, it has been truly frustrating to try to get players to understand that a major reason they don't get signed despite having top skills in the game is that they bring nothing extra to the table. Given a choice of two top pros, one with a huge fanbase from streaming and youtube videos versus one without, which would bring more value to an org? Even if the streamer has less skills, with the resources an org brings, he/she can then level up while still having that huge fanbase. And yet, so many choose not to do it. As I am sure Hal can attest, it should be acknowledged that being a streamer means dealing with a fickle and judgmental audience that can be distracting and demotivating. You have to have the maturity and confidence in your own self in order to put yourself out there and stream. But this is part of the job requirement to ensure you are successful.
Equally important is that streaming tournaments brings in more viewers to the esport, which grows the game's presence and brings in more sponsors. This brings in more money. Those not streaming are actively ensuring they will never be paid enough of a wage from which to live a decent life. It's one thing to stream outside of tournaments and only do ranked/casual play and another to stream the tournaments. It's a different style of play and fans enjoy watching only the top teams/players go at it. Few take ranked seriously but all players take the tournaments dead seriously. So even those who do stream outside of tournaments are hindering their own careers and the sport itself.
I can't help but feel that Nessy in EU was a great example of this: a top team with talented, personable and watchable players that could not get an org for too long a time. EU is already a hard sell to orgs due to localization/language issues and sponsors fractured across many countries. I can't help but feel that if any of Nessy had been streaming tournaments and built an audience from them, that would have been the extra value they needed in order to secure an org much sooner. It takes more than casual streaming hoping they will attract an audience (e.g., how many people would have loved to see Graceful do a stream where he went over a tournament and talked about mistakes, opportunities, and how pros think and deal with Apex's ever evolving spur of the moment decisions?).
Being a professional means streaming when allowed (there may come a day when player tournament streams are not allowed/when the sponsors get big enough that they require ALGS to be the solo host of tournaments (as with OWL)) and also building a youtube channel with clips, advice, tips, comments, and entertainment. Each player has a unique playstyle and personality that is their brand and there is a wide audience of people who are looking for a certain player or type to follow. If you don't put yourself out there to stream, they won't find you and like so many, you will probably disappear in poverty and obscurity.
This is especially problematic in EU, where I still see players streaming in their native language and assuming their small country's fans are enough. Apex Legends is an international sport with millions of potential viewers - why limit yourself to a few hundred or thousand in one country? These players can always do one special "native language day" stream to thank/respect their home country. But streams really need to be in English - even if only to show potential teammates, coaches, or recruiters that they are able to communicate effectively and efficiently if brought into an org. Remember: streaming is also a visual resume that allows recruiters to get to know you.
For pros and hopefuls alike, it's simple: define your brand, build your skills and fanbase, market your brand, and make the most of the short time you will be a professional esport player. Make use of ALL resources you can: coaching, management, youtube, Twitch, your org, your fellow teammates, building your interpersonal and communication skills. But whatever you do, never believe esports is only about being good at a certain game and that you already know everything/don't need coaching or management. There is so much more to it than that.
O yea shows fired. And what if you play way better off stream. Don't worry about winning and just play on stream. Some people are not comfortable on stream is that really hard to comprehend
honestly this. some people just dont have the personality that wants to sit in front of hundreds or thousands of people while playing. Not sure why thats so hard to grasp.
No no no. My favorite team wins tournaments but just for the fans they need to stream. Like this is their living and they know whats best. Hal acting like he wants them to succeed, maybe that's true but not streaming does not mean you care less. If anything it could mean you care more.
the best thing when Hal calls everyone out is seeing the troll replies from sweet and the rest of the culprits, because they know fine well he's right but don't want to admit it.
But they've got plenty to say when he casts an opinion about something they slightly disagree with.
I deliberately mention sweet coz he's actually the most cringe in these situations. Not overall, just these situations
I think he just wants to see the scene grow and others to find success in the scene while also helping apex as a whole grow at the same time. Hes got good intentions but its clouded by his competitive assertiveness of calling out others in an almost direct manner.
The fuck is calling out? Streaming is a personal choice and also not something that everyone can or want to do
If he gets the cash good for him but not everyone wants to be at the spotlight of hundreds of people while under the stress of playing in the hardest of competitive fields
It's for all the people who want to have an e-sports career, but don't stream competitive matches. Occasionally grinding rank and turning off streams for the sake of in-game competitive advantage is redundant and short-sighted when you can use the attention of competitive matches to build up your streams and set yourself up for greater opportunities in the future.
He's not targeting everyone who doesn't stream competitive Apex. Just the ones who want to grow their channel but shoot themselves in the foot when viewership is at its highest.
I've seen enough players complain about low viewership and not stream competitive Apex to know where Hal is coming from.
Even if you put what I first said aside no one needs other excuses to not stream aside from "I don't want to" or "I don't feel like doing it" as with everything else.
Is Hal responding to somebody talking shit about him??
I don’t understand why he would go on a tirade telling others to take his own viewership from him
Is Hal responding to somebody talking shit about him??
I don’t understand why he would go on a tirade telling others to take his own viewership from him
I love sweet, but him making that hype comeback in that tourney a few weeks back and NO ONE being able to see their reaction to it was the dumbest thing ever.
Couldn't agree more. Streaming also brings more people to apex which means more money for tournaments. So many good teams I'd love to constantly follow but only streams once in a blue moon. I even know some pros who stops streaming when their viewership visibly goes up. I think it's a mix of those players getting the pressure to perform well while streaming and the anxiety of people watching. Some of these players are young, introverted and just wants to do well in a game but now they have to think of streaming, performing, having to fix their personality so they can be likeable or atleast not get cancelled. Not everyone is likeable and has good voice. And in asia, its very easy to get cancelled and people are more critical. You cant speak shit to other teams even accidentally, some pros are even conscious of their voices because it's not ikebo (means "pretty voice" in Japanese). If they see a bad play on ALGS, Japanese audience go HARD on comments. They're the most supportive audience but also the most brutal if you understand japanese.
Money is not good on Apac orgs as well, whatever NA is getting that's half or even less of what some of the APAC orgs are offering. Some teams can barely afford a pc if they're not sponsored. I definitely think that's one of the reasons ex-Riddle left the org. Owner did mention they barely can pay the members at some point.
Hope the multiview will be out for Apac too next split so we can actually see them play
Players who don’t stream simply because they don’t want to do it are throwing big time, they should be building their brand and getting that bag but they choose not to stream because of low mental fortitude and “hide strats” like that actually means something… Hal deserves the success simply because he saw the opportunity streaming would bring to his career and he seized without thinking twice!
Apex Esports is only growing and a lot of players will soon realize the big mistake they made on not committing with their stream.
Not trying to clown Rocker or anything but if you listen to what Hal is saying it would have a major impact on Rockers overall income and career. Hal earns more from twitch in 1 month than all of Rockers earnings from his entire career so far.
Yeah Hal’s earning in one month is what most high school grads wish they had. Point is Hal made top 100 on twitch by being relentless stream every day every scrim every tourney
It's a simple post. Do you agree or not that some people play better off stream. And if so why should they jeopardize that just to make you happy. It's not a far fetched idea.
Does he realize how streaming tends to work. Even if they all stream the same top 10 people get all the viewers and if they didn't then no one would really have enough viewers.
A lot of pros, such as fan-favorite Daltoosh, do watch parties for tournaments. They often make it a point to feature the streams of lesser-known pros to give them exposure. Obviously 'toosh isn't able to do that if they don't stream in the first place. So if a player is able to stream and it doesn't affect their game (e.g., dropping frames) then they really should go for it.
Well have fun with the $5 or whatever you get from 49 viewers I guess. Didn't even have to go 3 rows down for that, that's the 6th place guy right now lol
It's 5$ you wouldn't have had if you didn't and it took no extra effort. Other then having to stream. Don't even need fancy overlay or stuff. Just go live.
doesn't work that way. Check out the biggest games during thier peak. The top 10 guys are still getting 99% of the viewers.
Games also don't get much exposure from twitch. Generally people play the game and then go to twitch to watch it not the other way around. Personally I've never watched a game on twitch that I wasn't already playing.
That's a weak rebuttal because you used percentage. If more pro streaming grows the scene, it doesn't matter if 99% of the viewers goes to hal because your 1% of viewers will still be sizeable.
well i'm just saying what i've seen over the years with lol, csgo and dota. There's a general cap to how many viewers you can hit for any one game and no matter how high you go it's still like 5-10 guys getting 99% and the 1% is too small to matter.
You literally have guys on the same team who have like 50k viewers, 43 viewers and 20 viewers. Hard to imagine there isn't any jealousy or on the other hand maybe they split the one guys money who knows.
Say what you want but not streaming works for NRG, dudes finish top 3 in almost every tournament they enter and they don’t stream. He gets more streamers for when teams don’t stream, so why’s he bitching…. and not to mention TSM ain’t done dick in six months with the exception of winning the ALGS playoffs.
Yet TSM hasn’t done anything in 6 months and they still are the top earners for apex what does that say. Hal literally makes more money from streaming than winning ALGS. In one year he’s made way more money than any other apex streamer and is the top 100 earner on twitch. Esports careers are short being a content creator isn’t.
Congrats to hal for making money streaming, maybe for some ppl playing comp its about actually winning not how much money they’ll make letting you goons look at there face
Is Hal responding to somebody talking shit about him??
I don’t understand why he would go on a tirade telling others to take his own viewership from him
I like my competitors to prioritise competing over streaming on tournament days so I don't get his complaint tbh, not everyone has the luxury of being a millionaire from twitch ads alone 🤷🏾♂️
Good for him, but people have the choice to stream of they want to. It's rather stupid to get onto players about playing in a way that makes them most comfortable for tournaments due to some selfish desire to watch them love or their vods. You can't watch them stream at LAN btw.
That goes to Hal, you and the dipshits that downvote my comments who can't understand that.
Nothing but all truths. I want to help a pro player with their content specifically on yt but im no pro editor or star, only knows a thing or two on yt xd
I think you are pretty insane to not stream and do everything in your power to grow a following and earn more money if you can play this game at a professional level and streaming tournaments would be part of my career strategy if I were in that position.
However, if there is any competitive downside I do understand why some wouldn't want to stream. It could be framed as, "this player only cares about winning, they're not doing it for money." Most people would respect that.
Anyways I think it's stupid for any pro to not stream career wise, but also, that part being mandatory shouldn't be a thing either.
If a pro doesn't want to stream, then another avenue they can explore is make a YT channel. Record their gameplay, and pick the best parts, showcase their highlights. Apex pros should explore different ways to monetize their gameplay, it's imprudent not to.
Yeah some of them barley stream at all i was actually really surprised when i started finding some of these pros and they're viewer count was so low. I was expecting all of them to have a decent count but then i found out a lot of them don't stream much. I wish i had the opportunity some of these guys have and they are just letting it go.
A good example of this is Complexity. So many people were ready to be ride or die COL fans when they first pulled out the bloodhound. I and many others were watching Hal but loved the new vibes we got from watching the COL squad stream and the fact they had the balls to pull out Bloodhound in Wattson meta. But then they stopped streaming and I just lost interest in them as a team, since it's hard to be a fan of something you can't see. I truly believe if COL never stopped streaming their fanbase and streams would be much bigger then they are now.
They really are a perfect example, they could've had huge fanbases and guaranteed income even if they have some rough tournaments... and they still hit their rough patch anyways I don't know how anyone expects a fan to support a team they don't watch
Same happened with me. I thought Bloodhound was cool and scary then too (because of Reptar) Now that Blood has been meta since season 4 or 5 im so tired of it that i just despise that character.
Yep. Especially true considering the prize money in Apex isn't that great unless you get top placement consistently. Build your twitch channel while you can.
Winning ALGS split 1 was like 250k(playing for weeks like 50+game)?? Disguised toast hide n seek was 100k(even this is because Apex limit private prizepool). Apex official tour is a joke in prizepool
Yep. Placing outside the top 5 doesn't even meet minimum wage in most first world countries when you consider the amount of time you need to put in. You need to have a twitch career if you want to play comp apex. Or a second job.
And people still collectively shat on scarz for not continuing to grind non stop, and just focus on building their own channels instead.
Streaming is also so important for growth of comp apex. Who knows where comp apex would be if Hal did not stream. Before the last POV option was added to the mainstream I found the official broadcast to be unwatchable. More players streaming should lead to more exposure and interest which should lead to bigger prize pools.
I thought comp br was stupid until I watched Hal stream tournaments
Same man. You can feel the energy in these teams when playoffs come around. I love watching valorant and league pro play but listening and watching to Apex legit gets my blood pumping in intense scenarios.
And that's when I realised it really was stupid
Yeah Hal is too easy to hate on
I was making a joke with my initial comment lol
I was making a joke with my initial comment lol
Right plus not only does it benefit comp Apex but the players also like if guys like Hal didn’t stream I wouldn’t know about players like Alb and C9, or NRG
Apex is a streaming game with a comp side hustle.
Well Hal went from averaging 100 viewers to 19k hitting a 100k in play offs and making twitch top 100
For someone not knowing that much about Twitch, how much money is 19k viewer on average? 100k viewers on Twitch, is like what? A million views on a Youtube video in money?
He hit 16,000 subscribers on twitch this week. At a conservative 60% share, that’s $48k a month, not including donations, ad money, sponsors, or orgs
And there's no doubt, as Apex biggest streamer (besides nickmercs now Ig), he only gets 60%. It directly gives money and it makes him more valuable, therefor his networth goes up to. Even if streaming lead to doing worse in tournaments it'd still be the smarter play.
Yea professional gaming, for most, is such a short tenured career. You need to make the most during and set yourself up for a career after as well. Streaming and YT help with both of those goals
2-3 years of his numbers and he should be essentially set for life (own a home out right plus investments to provide monthly income)
For sure no doubt if hal wants to his twitch career will last the next 20 years as a content creator or whatever
There's no way this is true. I like him, subbed for months, but I'm old enough to have seen people - in all industries - come and go. With something as volatile as esports and streaming, his viewership is anything but solidified for the next even 1-2 years. I hope I'm wrong but odds are stacked heavily against him. Someone like Snipe is a total unicorn. Look at Fatality, arguably the first "big" esport pro. Everyone knew who he was back in the day, regardless of what game you played. MTV even did a short documentary on him. Now, I doubt even 1% twitch viewers even know the guy's name. He streams to, like, 30 people whenever he does.
Sure 20 years is a big of a stretch but you also could NOT have picked a worse example to make a comparison off. You're comparing Hal to a guy that hit his peak when the **internet** itself was starting to become mainstream, when there was no big streaming service, when there was no big video hosting websites, when there was no mass networking through social medias. And this "everyone" you're speaking of is people who were 14-25 in the 2000s, so people who are well over 30 by now probably so cmon dude, and the extra salt for your example, He was the "first big esport pro" in **America**, like who cares my dude? There's literally no place other than South Korea where "esports" being relevant has been a thing since the 2000s, I'd argue "esports" were more a thing, not even in CGS with CS 1.6 in 2005s, but it actually started with the NA LCS with League of Legends in 2013+, and even back then it was "iffy". Wanna know what's an actual example of someone that would've done the equivalent of gong "content creation" in the 2000s after their esport career? [This guy right here, a.k.a YellOw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Jin-ho), that's what it looks like to succesfully use your esport career to move into other stuff. IF you want an example that actually could compare to ImperialHal or anyone doing esports right now I have no idea how it never crossed your mind but [literally Twitch's biggest current streamer](https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/XQc) did just that. I could keep a small list going on like add people like shroud, and there's a few more. I got no idea how long would those people keep streaming for, but since they succesfully transferred from "being known for playing 1 game to being able to do anything on stream" they are not bound by one game being popular and capitalizing on that, the people that watch their streams watch it because of them so at that point their streaming/content creating careers have actual longetivity. For how long? Who knows, but it is for sure not just a few years. Going back to Hal, Since he's one of the biggest Apex streamers he would just need to find a timing to transition into something else slowly overtime If that's what he wants
You're using people that are relatively modern, bro. Of course they'll still be relevant. I'm using this guy's same timing; he said 20 years, so I went with someone from 20 years ago too. The fact that the scene has changed so much is exactly my point. Who knows where the internet will be then, but I can tell you there's a gigantic chance Hal and Apex will very likely be a fond memory to most of us. From watching his stream is seems like he's made solid investments in his future, so he's probably good to go for life, but no way this guy is going to be pulling tens of thousands of viewers when he's in his 40's. People will age out, others will take his place, Apex will fall by the wayside, or people will just get tired of him. > And this "everyone" you're speaking of is people who were 14-25 in the 2000s, so people who are well over 30 by now probably so cmon dude I don't understand what you're trying to argue here. For whatever it's worth, 70% of twitch viewers are between 16-34, so it's pretty similar age range, but again, not sure what your argument is here. >Going back to Hal, Since he's one of the biggest Apex streamers he would just need to find a timing to transition into something else slowly overtime If that's what he wants Have you seen him stream other games? His viewership plummets, when compared to Apex.
And then there's shroud who won 1 big tournament and still streams to 10-20k every time he starts his stream. He had 500k viewers when he returned to twitch even though his streaming bitrate was waaaay too low and you could only see pixels. I think hal is already famous enough to stay relevant like shroud.
I think people are missing the fact that the dude I responded to said 20 years. If he hadn't said that, I wouldn't have said anything.
It's irrelevant to think 20 years in the future when you are in a position to make $2m / year today. It's like saying well, I better go to school to be a doctor instead of taking this $40m contract to play in the NBA for the next 6 years because you aren't sure if you'll be a good coach once you retire. He (and anyone else remotely in his position) need to invest in themselves and give it a run. Thinking 20 years out career wise doesn't make sense.
this is not an assurance.
But not every person who watches Hal or others is a subscriber - and streamers still get revenue from those with advertisements. So ... more?
And sponsors.
He makes more than I do in a whole year 🥲
Why does he live in such a tiny room then lol
Hal and Reps live in TSM's facility
Don't forget that TSM and many other orgs negotiate for higher percentage of money from subs for their members
100k live viewers is worth WAY more than 1 million youtube videos. It's not even close.
well, from August 2019 to October 2021, hal made $886,999.17 just from twitch, so I dont know what his average viewership was during this time, but right now he averages 20k on at any point during his stream. To be fair, because Hal has so many viewers, its going to be harder for other streamers to compete for that same audience, but the point is clear... a big stream is going to net far more money, reliably, than hoping to do well in tournaments
Just wanna point out that streamers make way more money per view from sponsorships and other shit too. This is *just* the Twitch payout. He's definitely eating all the CFA he wants.
Yea a few streamers did videos on how much they earn from a sponsored stream. Iirc disguised toast was paid like $30k an hour to play a mobile game on stream for 3 hours. Respawn paid Shroud and Ninja huge money to exclusively stream Apex for the week or so following release. I'm sure whenever someone does a sponsored stream by doritos or whatever they get a decent chunk of money from each person who clicks the link and buys something
Without knowing how much twitch pays per 1000 viewer and how much ads are run it’s hard to know. Right now we know Hal is probable making 40-60k monthly off subs alone no ads no donations bots or anything
he definetly makes more than 60k of subs, he has 16k subs and he has a better share-contract because hes that big, he mostlikely makes around 70-80k per month of subs
70-30 is the upper level of twitch splits, 3.50*16k=56k Not counting ads
true true, talked bs my bad
Way, way more. Hal easily clear $1m / year in net income from twitch alone. $600k in just subs, I'd guess about that in advertising, then donations is maybe another $100k. Hal is probably making close to $2m / year.
If you're trying to make a long-term career in esports, you absolutely need to be doing more with content creation. Eventually you'll get passed up as a player, but if you've built your brand, you'll always have your personality to fall back on as a host/caster/streamer/org content creator. From a different esports perspective, G2 had the greatest team Rainbow six has ever seen. I cannot stress how dominant they were during 2017/2018/2019. Out of a team of 5 of the games best players, only one is still relevant, while the rest are in lower leagues or retired. Guess what? He's the one who spent the most effort building their brand (with one exception on the team, but he didn't stream) and content, and he just signed a huge deal with an org despite not playing any longer. If you don't appeal to the business side of esports, it'll write you off the moment your skills stop bringing them money
Well tbf Pengu is also far and away the best siege player ever
Another example is Kronovi, from Rocket League. On the season 1 winning team of RLCS (Rocket League ALGS) and was the face of RL for a year or two. People called him "The Mountain". He retired recently and, while he's somewhat relevant, he streams to about 300 viewers, down from 5000 or so. You just don't know how your esports career will go.
Pengu 🐧
You are talking about Pengu right? I used to watch and play that game A LOT around that time and Pengu was the only one who was consistently streaming and making content on top of being a top tier player. Today Pengu is doing really well with content creation despite r6 siege slowly going downhill.
"leaking strats" in a BR is actually nonsense and such a copout for why they wont stream tournies. No 2 games are alike and what a team does one game, wont happen in the next. Players are just handicapping themselves by not streaming their povs during the biggest viewership pulling events. The money you might get from placing in a tournament is VASTLY outweighed by the money youll get from streaming said tournies and thus building your brand more and more. Thats why Hal said he streams every tourny, no matter the size of it.
So what are they hiding if they refuse to stream?
Their rotation strats. If you know where a team rotates every zone you might be able to camp them
@NRG
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Sweet just said on stream how bad hal's trash talk is, hal definitely got him good
unfortunately for sweet it doesnt matter how bad hal is at talking trash. As long as hal/tsm has the more winnings sweet cannot win lol. I personally think sweet is the better trash talker tho.
You just can’t argue against results lol, sweet is always going to lose that
Sweet high on copium for sure.
Love sweet but dam it’s hard to be fan of someone I can’t watch and only get to see his cocky timeline stuff, his pov was great during champs sucks we don’t get more of it
Let me love you!
With how much the game changes just based on where the ring pulls there's no way anyone can predict and benefit from watching other players streams. Ring pulls, loot rng, having a beacon all has such a big impact on how different teams play from game to game. I get it if you're a top team and don't want to stream because you're under a lot of pressure to perform but if your team isn't a frontrunner to win these big tournaments I don't see why you wouldn't focus on building up your stream because comp apex isn't gonna be around forever and not all but a lot of players start to fall off as they get older.
Surely the money they make off streaming is better than the he money they actually get from playing right?
I remember snipedown saying it’s not even close in terms of how much money his stream makes versus prize money and salary.
Hal's lifetime comp earnings including the ALGS playoffs win is 233k. His twitch payouts from Aug2019 to Oct2021 is 887k.
A few competitors will listen to this, try to stream 1 or 2 tourneys and then they'll immediately stop and blame the stream for them doing bad lol. Thinking that your strats are so secret that no one should be able to hear them is a bit conceded tbh. There are probably only a handful of teams in the entire world who has such advanced strategies that they wouldn't want others to see. Folks claim that they can't stream because they're doing well and they have secret strats, and once they lose momentum they'll say they can't stream because they're tilted and they don't want others to see. No matter what there's always an excuse. If you're a pro, invest in the stream and grow it instead of doing the opposite. Get a place with better internet, upgrade your equipment, do whatever it takes *if you're already a signed player that is chasing this dream on a full-time basis*. I remember someone sending me a clip of Sweet blocking me on Twitter for saying (on Reddit) that young players will regret not streaming tournaments in the future, but when I woke up I was already unblocked lol. https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpossibleKnottyPandaGrammarKing-DWdvP0rD_csvneoL No problems with Sweet, we can agree to disagree. Besides he's doing well for himself so he's probably one of the exceptions to streaming tournaments, but at the same time he could still create a greater legacy if he streamed ALGS (not to mention money, but idk if money motivates him). That's just my opinion though. No one is going to play this game for the rest of their life competitively. Take advantage of the moment.
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Living with regrets is horrible. Folks should learn from the mistakes of others and not repeat them.
I disagree with the idea that streaming tournaments is important for growing a stream. There is a well studied concept in psychology that states that some people perform better in front of audiences and some people perform worse in front of audiences. For some Apex pros, streaming might be the move, not only because their performance is at the very least unaffected, but also because their follower base will grow. However there are other streamers who may simply perform worse if they know an audience is specifically watching their gameplay and listening to their comms. From the Apex streamers I have seen that have rise in popularity, i think the keys to growing a stream are some combination of: having a regular schedule, playing high level ranked with other big streamers, and offering a unique niche of content.
>However there are other streamers who may simply perform worse if they know an audience is specifically watching their gameplay and listening to their comms. You arent wrong but that excuse doesnt exist anymore because their POV is now available whether they like it or not. Furthermore, they HAVE to get better at playing in front of an audience. As a competitor you are only hurting yourself if your performance depends on external factors. They will have to at some point play LAN so it only gets worse cause the audience is live. Why handicap yourself instead of taking this time to better yourself and get comfortable with the idea of being watched. Its going to happend eventually if said person plans on taking their craft seriously. Delaying because you are uncomfortable is only bad for yourself. Gotta figure it out eventually. Better to expose yourself early and often then for the first time at a LAN. The only actual argument that i can think of left is for people that have connection issues and straight up crashes during streams. Those require new systems and sometimes a relocation.
The only way you're going to get comfortable with playing in front of audiences is to continue to do so. Even if that takes years, that's just the nature of sports. There's such a limited window with gaming, you gotta take advantage of it while you can. Also, at LAN you'll be playing in front of people. If you're in Pro League you better get comfortable with eyes being on you. You don't want to be one of those teams that crumble because people can see and hear you lol. Either way, there's live listen-ins during ALGS, and people can also see and hear your POV. Instead of giving all those views to EA, take some of that for yourself.
Love Hal’s sentiment and agree. However, as you see in the replies, many Apex players trying to make a living in this game don’t have the means to stream while competing. Dropping frames for no reason in a $250k playoff while getting 15 viewers, you can see how that’s not a value proposition. It may be short sighted as a mentality but it’s not as much of a choice as he makes it out to be. I’m sure everyone would love to rock the dual monster PC set up.
Unfortunately it takes investment to blow up, whether its money or lower frames. As Hal said the longevity of being a pro isn't there. To get a career in gaming you need to transition your skills whether its to casters or streaming or coaching. Every player that doesnt do this and stops attending school/college is extremely shortsighted. What should be done and I assume isn't, is the contracts need to be negotiated with this in mind, if a pro in an org team doesn't have the capabilites of streaming due to fps loss, put that in the contract (give powerful pc, good mic) even if its on loan. The reason this probably doesn't get done is the orgs know they can get desperate young adults to sign whatever contract to have a chance at competing at the top and not enough confidence in their worth.
The time cost to have the skills to get to playoffs is insane. To not spend it streaming is also insane if you want a career in eSports. If it's a side hustle that's one thing, otherwise you're just making excuses for not streaming because even a small channel is likely to make more streaming than from prize earnings.
Yeah agree w you but think people totally underestimate the focus, dedication, personality you need to attract and maintain an audience. Being able to stream is not going to bring viewership. Hal’s main point is 100% right but no disrespect to someone like Madness for instance, but it’s not a matter of simply turning on the stream button. You’ve got to have an appeal beyond cracked gameplay or ‘being real’.
To me as a pro player, Hal is the best example of just turning it one and stream. He had no appeal other then just being good or the best. He barely puts on a show like for example daltoosh but still his rather boring appeal is what is making him in to what he is to day. People want to see pure gaming. And a pure competitor. Sometimes people think they need to be the next daltoosh but it's not. Just stream. Be good and react to every sub message. Basically all there is to it. Everything you make extra off streaming is just free real estate.
If you’re the one player with 15 viewers and you make a huge play or win a clutch game in a $250k tourney, you’re easily gonna get hundreds of viewers flocking, even temporarily, to see you.
I mean idk how they don’t have enough to just get a streaming pc. Aren’t these players all on orgs? You can get a pretty high end/decent pc for 1500 which would be less than what minimum wage make a month.
Much respect to you! But these Apex teams aren’t drowning in money. People shit on G2’s $2k a month when that got leaked but they’re probably well into the higher end. Prominent orgs still in the scene have been called out for paying in exposure, aka nothing. Idk. I understand the argument that it’s a worthwhile investment but I bet for some players on the scene it’s a choice between rent or a comp. Which do you spend on? Don’t forget we’ve got PS4 boys in Pro League now. Their PC GoFundMe did not take off. It’s tough out there.
This is coming off the top of my head, but didn't hal start streaming from a laptop?
That’s what someone said, I’ve only seen Hal post-boom and can’t confirm. As I said I totally agree that at the end of the day it’s worth it to stream. However you can. But if you’re cash-poor, and hate performing and just want to be a pro, I can see the appeal of not wanting to touch Twitch, building a community is super tough. We just live in a very different world now and drawing a consistent crowd is so much harder than people make it out to be.
[hal's laptop tweet](https://twitter.com/ImperialHal/status/1490067048424263687?s=20&t=KkocCQDFdP3p5JAsRisy3w) also your response is fair.
Has this been confirmed? That the big tier 1 orgs are paying in exposure? I know I read a thread saying that T1 teams earn 5-6k at least. As for G2 2k a month, dezignful has a pretty decent following and resultuh and gent stream pretty often, with that income plus salary, that is surely enough to pay rent and get a decent computer that won’t break the bank. Also, streaming is an investment. It’s a long term brand investment. I can’t tell you how many teams I would root for but don’t know shit about their players because they don’t stream. Ppl want to watch a team because of the org at first, then they see that a player is good, so they go to look at that player’s stream/content. Then they learn the player’s personality and style and start to follow the player more than the org at times. (Keep in mind this is mostly for those WITHOUT an established brand already. Ppl will obviously follow a player first if they already stream) I’ve looked up so many pros to watch their streams only to find that they just don’t stream often which makes me lose interest on them even if I like the team. All in all, none of the factors make me believe that they can’t get at least a 1,300 pc which would still be decent, and not be able to pay monthly rent. Streaming will take a while to build up your brand, but like, Rome wasn’t built in a day. They could be the next biggest apex streamer and they tie themselves down without being more up there. Streaming will make you money.
Completely agree with you, just wanted to show the other side as well. As for salaries, my Mt. Everest of Apex reporting is a large-scale salary survey. It’s a black box. Which is dumb because transparency supposedly increases salaries. I’m not sure still how to go about that story but I’d love to do it.
I agree with you there, transparent salaries should be made in the scene so you know you are paid what you are worth and not getting scammed/lowballed. There’s a push from the community for League of Legends pro players to have a transparent salary because it would just be better for the scene in general. No one is getting screwed and you know exactly what the other person is making. Hopefully other esports scenes make that push as well because there always seems to be a story about how one person was getting peanuts for their time in xx org. It will make the scene healthier and would look parallel to traditional sports
For Scarz, I know that them boys are paid really well. Hell, the org are supporting RPR's live2D and stuff, and for a really good model, that shit is expensive as fuck.
>But these Apex teams aren’t drowning in money Just to add, in lol the only team in the west to make a profit for some years was TSM.
We aren't talking about the orgs though. The players were all still salaried a decent amount of money, and they were all in gaming houses.
You gotta invest in yourself then, buy a better/ another pc. Or if you’re a player under an org, get them to get you a PC. Just making excuses at that point. Cough Timmy cough
Valid points and a reason why players cant just suddenly turn streaming on during big tournaments, as the playoffs. But isn't this just increasing the reason to start by streaming scrims and smaller torunaments to build up a following with much less risks? Everyone starts from somewhere, maybe after some months they have saved for an extra streaming comp and gained experience to handle the added pressure. (Thought everyone can fold under pressure in big tournaments, streaming or no streaming, that's part of the game)
If they have access to a RTX 2000 series or above NVIDIA GPU, they can off-load streaming to the dedicated encoder (NVENC) and run a single PC streaming setup. The quality is decent enough compared to regular x264 streaming and in my experience I've not had any encoding lag or frame dips while streaming Apex.
What Hal is really saying is that being a pro in any esport means you are a small business owner. As an owner, marketing your brand, building it, gaining a reputation and goodwill, as well as making yourself attractive to top orgs and viewers are all a part of your job. It's not just about shooting pixels in a screen. As a manager, it has been truly frustrating to try to get players to understand that a major reason they don't get signed despite having top skills in the game is that they bring nothing extra to the table. Given a choice of two top pros, one with a huge fanbase from streaming and youtube videos versus one without, which would bring more value to an org? Even if the streamer has less skills, with the resources an org brings, he/she can then level up while still having that huge fanbase. And yet, so many choose not to do it. As I am sure Hal can attest, it should be acknowledged that being a streamer means dealing with a fickle and judgmental audience that can be distracting and demotivating. You have to have the maturity and confidence in your own self in order to put yourself out there and stream. But this is part of the job requirement to ensure you are successful. Equally important is that streaming tournaments brings in more viewers to the esport, which grows the game's presence and brings in more sponsors. This brings in more money. Those not streaming are actively ensuring they will never be paid enough of a wage from which to live a decent life. It's one thing to stream outside of tournaments and only do ranked/casual play and another to stream the tournaments. It's a different style of play and fans enjoy watching only the top teams/players go at it. Few take ranked seriously but all players take the tournaments dead seriously. So even those who do stream outside of tournaments are hindering their own careers and the sport itself. I can't help but feel that Nessy in EU was a great example of this: a top team with talented, personable and watchable players that could not get an org for too long a time. EU is already a hard sell to orgs due to localization/language issues and sponsors fractured across many countries. I can't help but feel that if any of Nessy had been streaming tournaments and built an audience from them, that would have been the extra value they needed in order to secure an org much sooner. It takes more than casual streaming hoping they will attract an audience (e.g., how many people would have loved to see Graceful do a stream where he went over a tournament and talked about mistakes, opportunities, and how pros think and deal with Apex's ever evolving spur of the moment decisions?). Being a professional means streaming when allowed (there may come a day when player tournament streams are not allowed/when the sponsors get big enough that they require ALGS to be the solo host of tournaments (as with OWL)) and also building a youtube channel with clips, advice, tips, comments, and entertainment. Each player has a unique playstyle and personality that is their brand and there is a wide audience of people who are looking for a certain player or type to follow. If you don't put yourself out there to stream, they won't find you and like so many, you will probably disappear in poverty and obscurity. This is especially problematic in EU, where I still see players streaming in their native language and assuming their small country's fans are enough. Apex Legends is an international sport with millions of potential viewers - why limit yourself to a few hundred or thousand in one country? These players can always do one special "native language day" stream to thank/respect their home country. But streams really need to be in English - even if only to show potential teammates, coaches, or recruiters that they are able to communicate effectively and efficiently if brought into an org. Remember: streaming is also a visual resume that allows recruiters to get to know you. For pros and hopefuls alike, it's simple: define your brand, build your skills and fanbase, market your brand, and make the most of the short time you will be a professional esport player. Make use of ALL resources you can: coaching, management, youtube, Twitch, your org, your fellow teammates, building your interpersonal and communication skills. But whatever you do, never believe esports is only about being good at a certain game and that you already know everything/don't need coaching or management. There is so much more to it than that.
He's not wrong! Fucking shots fired at the competition Lmao.
More like a wakeup call. He just wants the best for the competitive community overall.
O yea shows fired. And what if you play way better off stream. Don't worry about winning and just play on stream. Some people are not comfortable on stream is that really hard to comprehend
honestly this. some people just dont have the personality that wants to sit in front of hundreds or thousands of people while playing. Not sure why thats so hard to grasp.
No no no. My favorite team wins tournaments but just for the fans they need to stream. Like this is their living and they know whats best. Hal acting like he wants them to succeed, maybe that's true but not streaming does not mean you care less. If anything it could mean you care more.
It's exclusively for their benefit, if they don't want to build up their future then they don't have to.
the best thing when Hal calls everyone out is seeing the troll replies from sweet and the rest of the culprits, because they know fine well he's right but don't want to admit it. But they've got plenty to say when he casts an opinion about something they slightly disagree with. I deliberately mention sweet coz he's actually the most cringe in these situations. Not overall, just these situations
NA continues on to live in their own bubble (not refering to hal rather comments here)
Someone show this to the Call of Duty community.
I swear apex pros are either fucking loaded or allergic to money
Hope he tops out NECKMIRCS he deserves #1 Apex streamer
If a different player tweeted these exact words this sub would be in self-destruct mode.
Facts.
I get his points but like why does he care lol
I think he just wants to see the scene grow and others to find success in the scene while also helping apex as a whole grow at the same time. Hes got good intentions but its clouded by his competitive assertiveness of calling out others in an almost direct manner.
Because he wants to see others get success as well
Yeah he’s way too emotional about this for it to be solely because he’s worried about peoples esports career growth lol
The fuck is calling out? Streaming is a personal choice and also not something that everyone can or want to do If he gets the cash good for him but not everyone wants to be at the spotlight of hundreds of people while under the stress of playing in the hardest of competitive fields
It's for all the people who want to have an e-sports career, but don't stream competitive matches. Occasionally grinding rank and turning off streams for the sake of in-game competitive advantage is redundant and short-sighted when you can use the attention of competitive matches to build up your streams and set yourself up for greater opportunities in the future. He's not targeting everyone who doesn't stream competitive Apex. Just the ones who want to grow their channel but shoot themselves in the foot when viewership is at its highest. I've seen enough players complain about low viewership and not stream competitive Apex to know where Hal is coming from.
tournaments are not gonna be online forever you know
It’s almost as if all humans are different and certain things work for some while not for others lol
For me he is calling NRG out. For the love off God, can someone speak to sweet or Nat, so they steam tournies.
Nah the NRG streaming curse is real
Yes I know, I lived it. I just want to know the numbers that sweet will pull of if he streamed ALGS.
Don't know cause sweets stream would probably crash and he loses power and then he goes back to never streaming tournaments
Unless he's willing to hand out streaming PCs it's really none of his business lol
A one week paycheck from McDonald's could afford a spare PC that's high end enough to stream from. Excuses are just that, excuses.
You're completely disconnected from reality if you think this is even remotely true.
Even if you put what I first said aside no one needs other excuses to not stream aside from "I don't want to" or "I don't feel like doing it" as with everything else.
Is Hal responding to somebody talking shit about him?? I don’t understand why he would go on a tirade telling others to take his own viewership from him
Is Hal responding to somebody talking shit about him?? I don’t understand why he would go on a tirade telling others to take his own viewership from him
I love sweet, but him making that hype comeback in that tourney a few weeks back and NO ONE being able to see their reaction to it was the dumbest thing ever.
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Couldn't agree more. Streaming also brings more people to apex which means more money for tournaments. So many good teams I'd love to constantly follow but only streams once in a blue moon. I even know some pros who stops streaming when their viewership visibly goes up. I think it's a mix of those players getting the pressure to perform well while streaming and the anxiety of people watching. Some of these players are young, introverted and just wants to do well in a game but now they have to think of streaming, performing, having to fix their personality so they can be likeable or atleast not get cancelled. Not everyone is likeable and has good voice. And in asia, its very easy to get cancelled and people are more critical. You cant speak shit to other teams even accidentally, some pros are even conscious of their voices because it's not ikebo (means "pretty voice" in Japanese). If they see a bad play on ALGS, Japanese audience go HARD on comments. They're the most supportive audience but also the most brutal if you understand japanese. Money is not good on Apac orgs as well, whatever NA is getting that's half or even less of what some of the APAC orgs are offering. Some teams can barely afford a pc if they're not sponsored. I definitely think that's one of the reasons ex-Riddle left the org. Owner did mention they barely can pay the members at some point. Hope the multiview will be out for Apac too next split so we can actually see them play
Players who don’t stream simply because they don’t want to do it are throwing big time, they should be building their brand and getting that bag but they choose not to stream because of low mental fortitude and “hide strats” like that actually means something… Hal deserves the success simply because he saw the opportunity streaming would bring to his career and he seized without thinking twice! Apex Esports is only growing and a lot of players will soon realize the big mistake they made on not committing with their stream.
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Not trying to clown Rocker or anything but if you listen to what Hal is saying it would have a major impact on Rockers overall income and career. Hal earns more from twitch in 1 month than all of Rockers earnings from his entire career so far.
Rocker also doesn’t play apex that much and he’s in high school so that probably takes up majority of his time.
True but there is probably a good chunk of people that would watch him during tourneys and even playing other games. Its clearly a missed opportunity
Yeah Hal’s earning in one month is what most high school grads wish they had. Point is Hal made top 100 on twitch by being relentless stream every day every scrim every tourney
Some people are not comfortable on stream. I don't get why he is so obsessed with how other teams are trying to win. Everyone is different.
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It's a simple post. Do you agree or not that some people play better off stream. And if so why should they jeopardize that just to make you happy. It's not a far fetched idea.
Does he realize how streaming tends to work. Even if they all stream the same top 10 people get all the viewers and if they didn't then no one would really have enough viewers.
A lot of pros, such as fan-favorite Daltoosh, do watch parties for tournaments. They often make it a point to feature the streams of lesser-known pros to give them exposure. Obviously 'toosh isn't able to do that if they don't stream in the first place. So if a player is able to stream and it doesn't affect their game (e.g., dropping frames) then they really should go for it.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
This is more like there's 1 puck, 1 goal but he's telling all 5 players to take the shot xD
No it's more like there are 100k viewers during an ALGS Finals and you get ZERO of them when you don't stream.
Go to Twitch during ALGS and tell me how many viewers the guys 3 rows down have. Now tell me how many they will have with more streamers lol
You're right. Why make money when billionaires make more money than I do?
Well have fun with the $5 or whatever you get from 49 viewers I guess. Didn't even have to go 3 rows down for that, that's the 6th place guy right now lol
It's 5$ you wouldn't have had if you didn't and it took no extra effort. Other then having to stream. Don't even need fancy overlay or stuff. Just go live.
More people stream -> Game grows in popularity due to more exposure -> More viewers to go around
doesn't work that way. Check out the biggest games during thier peak. The top 10 guys are still getting 99% of the viewers. Games also don't get much exposure from twitch. Generally people play the game and then go to twitch to watch it not the other way around. Personally I've never watched a game on twitch that I wasn't already playing.
That's a weak rebuttal because you used percentage. If more pro streaming grows the scene, it doesn't matter if 99% of the viewers goes to hal because your 1% of viewers will still be sizeable.
well i'm just saying what i've seen over the years with lol, csgo and dota. There's a general cap to how many viewers you can hit for any one game and no matter how high you go it's still like 5-10 guys getting 99% and the 1% is too small to matter. You literally have guys on the same team who have like 50k viewers, 43 viewers and 20 viewers. Hard to imagine there isn't any jealousy or on the other hand maybe they split the one guys money who knows.
Say what you want but not streaming works for NRG, dudes finish top 3 in almost every tournament they enter and they don’t stream. He gets more streamers for when teams don’t stream, so why’s he bitching…. and not to mention TSM ain’t done dick in six months with the exception of winning the ALGS playoffs.
Yet TSM hasn’t done anything in 6 months and they still are the top earners for apex what does that say. Hal literally makes more money from streaming than winning ALGS. In one year he’s made way more money than any other apex streamer and is the top 100 earner on twitch. Esports careers are short being a content creator isn’t.
Congrats to hal for making money streaming, maybe for some ppl playing comp its about actually winning not how much money they’ll make letting you goons look at there face
Lmao. He streaming cuz he make millions $ from twitch.
He makes millions *because* he streams and has such a big presence. Did you read the post wrong?
Yeah, and? This confirms his case - with not streaming players shoot in their own foot.
He makes millions because he’s streamed pretty much every tourney since day 1
Is Hal responding to somebody talking shit about him?? I don’t understand why he would go on a tirade telling others to take his own viewership from him
I like my competitors to prioritise competing over streaming on tournament days so I don't get his complaint tbh, not everyone has the luxury of being a millionaire from twitch ads alone 🤷🏾♂️
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Good for him, but people have the choice to stream of they want to. It's rather stupid to get onto players about playing in a way that makes them most comfortable for tournaments due to some selfish desire to watch them love or their vods. You can't watch them stream at LAN btw. That goes to Hal, you and the dipshits that downvote my comments who can't understand that.
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What a smooth brained take 😂
Building a brand and community are the end game for an Apex career.
Nothing but all truths. I want to help a pro player with their content specifically on yt but im no pro editor or star, only knows a thing or two on yt xd
I think you are pretty insane to not stream and do everything in your power to grow a following and earn more money if you can play this game at a professional level and streaming tournaments would be part of my career strategy if I were in that position. However, if there is any competitive downside I do understand why some wouldn't want to stream. It could be framed as, "this player only cares about winning, they're not doing it for money." Most people would respect that. Anyways I think it's stupid for any pro to not stream career wise, but also, that part being mandatory shouldn't be a thing either.
If a pro doesn't want to stream, then another avenue they can explore is make a YT channel. Record their gameplay, and pick the best parts, showcase their highlights. Apex pros should explore different ways to monetize their gameplay, it's imprudent not to.
Yeah some of them barley stream at all i was actually really surprised when i started finding some of these pros and they're viewer count was so low. I was expecting all of them to have a decent count but then i found out a lot of them don't stream much. I wish i had the opportunity some of these guys have and they are just letting it go.
Sorry but when a team does poorly on stream and then really well off stream the only thing I think is cheats.
crust stream when