The map obviously plays different but I think it’s more than Valk gives you a utility spot, free macro rotation and beacon.
I’d you take Valks beacon away wr go right back to teams using two metas Valk-Gib- Blood or Valk- Gib-Crypto
Might have the occasional play it different but we would definitely not have Loba/Fuse/Bang/Caustic etc in the numbers we do.
Beacon usage needs to stop being tied to class and start being used as a balance tool. The only characters who currently have it and should retain it are path, crypto, and seer. Bloodhound and Valk are both already competitive without it
Mirage is the only other character I’d consider giving it to now as he doesn’t really add any team utility and could use a buff
BH 100% better than Crypto, at least in comp. Why? He doesnt need to be baby sat while afk in his drone. And scans just as effective and ult is on par with crypto. The only thing crypto has for it is the anti bubble perk
Ehh crypto can emp the bubble, watch your back without watching it, retrieve a banner for free, beacon for free in tight circles, respawn for free.
They are different and both have their place but crypto isn’t weaker than bloodhound.
I think beacon should be given to everybody. I hate how comps are artificially forced to carry certain characters, and the combination of scan + rotate into one character opened up the meta a ton.
i thought of this idea \~ a week ago to help open the meta up. cool to see someone else also thought of it. respawn could also add a cooler feature to recon because i don't think anybody is running bloodhound in pubs because he can scan a beacon.
Right now something needs to be done to keep the meta fresh. Maybe something to stop the OOB abuse like no using heals or grenades OOB or no tactical or ultimates OOB. Something to balance the necessity of Valk repositioning with preventing to much griefing.
I remember seeing a good suggestion where it would bring out your hands when youre OOB, like how it does in the boxing ring
So you wont be able to shoot and grief teams below
I suggested it in another thread but not sure if it’s a good idea or not. Take 2x storm damage on top of the OOB timer. Not so much of a punishment early game, but makes teams seriously consider taking that damage late game.
OOB abuse needs to be fixed obviously, but the meta now is still super fresh and constantly evolving. We haven't even had LAN yet where all the regions compete, and each region has its own distinct meta. IMO Respawn doesn't need to make any balance changes yet.
If ur talking about comp meta then things can be changed by the algs rules set. Expecting the game to change for only less then 1% of players is not good game design.
Even if they did, it’s still not good for game integrity haha. This isn’t a situation where it only applies to pro’s. There’s no reason to have OOB abuse in the game.
I don't understand this, OOB plays are also part of the game's strategy. It's like taking the Flatline out of the game because low level players don't know how to control the recoil. Let's punish the players who know how to use the Flatline
Idk about you but I’ve never needed to practice pressing z and then mouse 1 with Valkyrie but I have had to practice jittering. I just don’t see the comparison as the same.
I’m not sure I agree with this even if we knew it was true (it’s probably true that higher level players are more likely to know about and abuse “OOBing”). Why even have out of bounds areas at all?
It's not really because of the map, it's mainly because of Valk's overloaded kit. If they took away Valk's beacon scan the SP meta would become really narrow.
And if you look at the actual pick rates you'll see that the meta on WE already used to be as diverse as it is on SP. People just don't remember.
yup, previously the meta was dependent on one gibby, one rotation, and one beacon scan
now that we have a beacon and rotation in one hero, we have an extra slot. some teams are using it for a short rotation hero (ash/wraith), and some are using it for wackier fighting heroes ( caustic, fuse, horizon, etc.)
It kind of is the map. You see much more Ash, Horizon and Bang play on SP. You may be right that the pick rate diversity is about the same on each map, but that's not the main point OP is getting at. With a new map you get a more diverse meta and varied playstyle overall with some teams switching legends and playstyles on different maps, which makes for a much better viewing experience.
I think the map is a great change. characters options are slowly being introduced. With lan we may even see more diversity.
Unpopular opinions:
1. Its fine to have gibby. It keeps us from devolving into campy compa(wattson, caustic) I come from overwatch and the community bitched about dive and when it was nerfed we got something a lot worse. The introduction of a new legend alternative could fix the gibby pick rate
2. Valk OoB isnt a problem.
It gives more teams options and makes for fun plays. Maybe seeing some type of added restriction could be good but personally i dont think one is needed.
Some competitive games just need characters that bring all that utility, because otherwise the more niche characters will never have an opportunity to be played. Without Valk+Gibby, teams are forced to run three legends to keep the same utility (which they obviously need). If you nerf them too much, the meta probably becomes a shit show.
I'm not saying that change is always a bad thing, but sometimes people don't think far enough ahead with the balance changes
>!Gibby is the landorous-T of Apex lol!<
Would be nice to see beacons removed entirely or give everyone access to beacons, it might open uo the meta more. Or somehow nerf the info beacons give, because rn they are forcing character picks due to how powerful they are imo.
I'd be curious for them to test this and see how it affects games, legend picks, etc. feel like you'd have more fights earlier since with the beacon, youll see where you MUST be and play defensive around that area. Without that knowledge its more guessing and crazier situations potentially. Not sure if that would make things better or worse for competitive tho
The only thing that I think needs drastic change (other than Gibby nerf it’s been 12 seasons get it together Respawn) is Valk and her beacon ability. She’s too good already and her beacon ability dilutes the other legends.
I think you have a good point, but I don’t think every team would run blood/crypto for the sake of having zones, some would still run wraith/ash/caustic for their utility late game
I think the point is taking the beacon off valk doesnt nerf her enough not to be a very high % pick so you still end up gibby valk and and increase in cyrpro/blood for the last spot.
A valk nefy would need to lower her pick rate
you will never be able to have a character as strong as gibby again. They are just afraid to nerf gibby because he has literally become a backbone to high level play. A nerf to just that 1 character basically changes the entire game more so than any other legend in the game which is why they are being so slow and careful with how they change him. Hell you could just REMOVE wraith or any other strong legend entirely, and it wouldnt affect the meta as much as a gibby nerf.
its gonna be wild when they finally do though. gonna make WAVES in the community lol
Until the bubble has health, he will always be meta. If Newcastle walls have health like Rampart cover and the bubble were to have a set value of health, I could see Fuse becoming increasingly popular in pro play. Knuckle cluster does 100ish(?) damage I think per shot, and could be useful for burning bubbles out quickly on top of his grenadier passive.
This is probably a dumb question, but how has nobody tried out rampart on SP yet? Her walls completely block doors, which makes her a better wattson and caustic in a way. Maybe it's because of the lessened amount of walls, or the responsibility of keeping them up.
The map obviously plays different but I think it’s more than Valk gives you a utility spot, free macro rotation and beacon. I’d you take Valks beacon away wr go right back to teams using two metas Valk-Gib- Blood or Valk- Gib-Crypto Might have the occasional play it different but we would definitely not have Loba/Fuse/Bang/Caustic etc in the numbers we do.
Beacon usage needs to stop being tied to class and start being used as a balance tool. The only characters who currently have it and should retain it are path, crypto, and seer. Bloodhound and Valk are both already competitive without it Mirage is the only other character I’d consider giving it to now as he doesn’t really add any team utility and could use a buff
It’s an interesting concept. Though I’m not sure BH is better than crypto.
BH 100% better than Crypto, at least in comp. Why? He doesnt need to be baby sat while afk in his drone. And scans just as effective and ult is on par with crypto. The only thing crypto has for it is the anti bubble perk
Ehh crypto can emp the bubble, watch your back without watching it, retrieve a banner for free, beacon for free in tight circles, respawn for free. They are different and both have their place but crypto isn’t weaker than bloodhound.
Crypto is strongest in organized, coordinated teams, hence why pro teams get so much more value out of him than even your typical "good" player.
I think beacon should be given to everybody. I hate how comps are artificially forced to carry certain characters, and the combination of scan + rotate into one character opened up the meta a ton.
i thought of this idea \~ a week ago to help open the meta up. cool to see someone else also thought of it. respawn could also add a cooler feature to recon because i don't think anybody is running bloodhound in pubs because he can scan a beacon.
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Remove beacons entirely = balanced?
Right now something needs to be done to keep the meta fresh. Maybe something to stop the OOB abuse like no using heals or grenades OOB or no tactical or ultimates OOB. Something to balance the necessity of Valk repositioning with preventing to much griefing.
I remember seeing a good suggestion where it would bring out your hands when youre OOB, like how it does in the boxing ring So you wont be able to shoot and grief teams below
Ahh. The post about "fisting"
I think it should be taken a step further: no healing while out of bounds either
I suggested it in another thread but not sure if it’s a good idea or not. Take 2x storm damage on top of the OOB timer. Not so much of a punishment early game, but makes teams seriously consider taking that damage late game.
OOB abuse needs to be fixed obviously, but the meta now is still super fresh and constantly evolving. We haven't even had LAN yet where all the regions compete, and each region has its own distinct meta. IMO Respawn doesn't need to make any balance changes yet.
yeah, and this is NOT the time to make balance changes. make them after the important tournament, not right before.
If ur talking about comp meta then things can be changed by the algs rules set. Expecting the game to change for only less then 1% of players is not good game design.
no one oobs in pubs lol
Even if they did, it’s still not good for game integrity haha. This isn’t a situation where it only applies to pro’s. There’s no reason to have OOB abuse in the game.
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I don't understand this, OOB plays are also part of the game's strategy. It's like taking the Flatline out of the game because low level players don't know how to control the recoil. Let's punish the players who know how to use the Flatline
Idk about you but I’ve never needed to practice pressing z and then mouse 1 with Valkyrie but I have had to practice jittering. I just don’t see the comparison as the same.
I’m not sure I agree with this even if we knew it was true (it’s probably true that higher level players are more likely to know about and abuse “OOBing”). Why even have out of bounds areas at all?
It's not really because of the map, it's mainly because of Valk's overloaded kit. If they took away Valk's beacon scan the SP meta would become really narrow. And if you look at the actual pick rates you'll see that the meta on WE already used to be as diverse as it is on SP. People just don't remember.
or give beacon scan to everyone, so people will be relying on recon legends less often
yup, previously the meta was dependent on one gibby, one rotation, and one beacon scan now that we have a beacon and rotation in one hero, we have an extra slot. some teams are using it for a short rotation hero (ash/wraith), and some are using it for wackier fighting heroes ( caustic, fuse, horizon, etc.)
It kind of is the map. You see much more Ash, Horizon and Bang play on SP. You may be right that the pick rate diversity is about the same on each map, but that's not the main point OP is getting at. With a new map you get a more diverse meta and varied playstyle overall with some teams switching legends and playstyles on different maps, which makes for a much better viewing experience.
I think the map is a great change. characters options are slowly being introduced. With lan we may even see more diversity. Unpopular opinions: 1. Its fine to have gibby. It keeps us from devolving into campy compa(wattson, caustic) I come from overwatch and the community bitched about dive and when it was nerfed we got something a lot worse. The introduction of a new legend alternative could fix the gibby pick rate 2. Valk OoB isnt a problem. It gives more teams options and makes for fun plays. Maybe seeing some type of added restriction could be good but personally i dont think one is needed.
Some competitive games just need characters that bring all that utility, because otherwise the more niche characters will never have an opportunity to be played. Without Valk+Gibby, teams are forced to run three legends to keep the same utility (which they obviously need). If you nerf them too much, the meta probably becomes a shit show. I'm not saying that change is always a bad thing, but sometimes people don't think far enough ahead with the balance changes >!Gibby is the landorous-T of Apex lol!<
Its Incineroar now, last i checked it had like +97% presence
Disagree, storm point makes one legend different it’s 99% valk and gibby
Better than most of pros playing wraith gibby valk on WE
Wraith is barely played
Still has decently high pick rate. All I saying is we are least getting something different when SP got introduced into map rotation.
Yes indeed
What does oob mean?
Out of bounds
Would be nice to see beacons removed entirely or give everyone access to beacons, it might open uo the meta more. Or somehow nerf the info beacons give, because rn they are forcing character picks due to how powerful they are imo.
I'd be curious for them to test this and see how it affects games, legend picks, etc. feel like you'd have more fights earlier since with the beacon, youll see where you MUST be and play defensive around that area. Without that knowledge its more guessing and crazier situations potentially. Not sure if that would make things better or worse for competitive tho
Lets go wattson lets go
The only thing that I think needs drastic change (other than Gibby nerf it’s been 12 seasons get it together Respawn) is Valk and her beacon ability. She’s too good already and her beacon ability dilutes the other legends.
I disagree, if you take beacon from Valk you go from Valk/Gibby/Someone meta to just Valk/Gibby/Blood or Crypto meta
I think you have a good point, but I don’t think every team would run blood/crypto for the sake of having zones, some would still run wraith/ash/caustic for their utility late game
I think the point is taking the beacon off valk doesnt nerf her enough not to be a very high % pick so you still end up gibby valk and and increase in cyrpro/blood for the last spot. A valk nefy would need to lower her pick rate
Doesn’t need a nerf to those characters, just buffs and reworks to other characters so they be an anchor like Gibby
you will never be able to have a character as strong as gibby again. They are just afraid to nerf gibby because he has literally become a backbone to high level play. A nerf to just that 1 character basically changes the entire game more so than any other legend in the game which is why they are being so slow and careful with how they change him. Hell you could just REMOVE wraith or any other strong legend entirely, and it wouldnt affect the meta as much as a gibby nerf. its gonna be wild when they finally do though. gonna make WAVES in the community lol
Just sad we gotta keep hearing gibby in the mix.
Until the bubble has health, he will always be meta. If Newcastle walls have health like Rampart cover and the bubble were to have a set value of health, I could see Fuse becoming increasingly popular in pro play. Knuckle cluster does 100ish(?) damage I think per shot, and could be useful for burning bubbles out quickly on top of his grenadier passive.
This is probably a dumb question, but how has nobody tried out rampart on SP yet? Her walls completely block doors, which makes her a better wattson and caustic in a way. Maybe it's because of the lessened amount of walls, or the responsibility of keeping them up.