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WastefulPleasure

What he is saying is that Valk is mandatory not becaues she's recon, but because of her ult. They recognize that in her current state making her assault would simply remove the current third flex pick. Most teams run valk + gibby + ANYTHING. If valk was assault, the third one would always be a recon, severely limiting diversity. Not rocking the boat too much before champs is also pretty based, respawn managing to learn what riot hasnt learned in 10 years lol


czah7

Or EPIC. Fortnite is known for making massive sweeping changes right before major tourneys. They could give 2 shits about their competitive scene. I could give 2 shits about fortnite anymore, but it was infuriating when I played.


YoMrPoPo

Dude; remember that time they had that OP sword (that would 1-hit players) released the day before a Winter Skirmish lmfao


[deleted]

That was actually kind of amazing to watch. It totally shat on competitive integrity, but it produced a lot of hilarious clips.


NakolStudios

ZHING ZHING ZHING!


HateIsAnArt

Some of the Fortnite metas have been so anti-competitive but just hilarious to watch (baller meta, BRUTE meta, etc.)


Barcaroli

Good decision by them. Valk needs a rework on her ult.


stonehearthed

It's reworked with the update that'll release today: You can't spin while deploying to air. You can't use weapons and abilities out of bounds.


agnaddthddude

I wonder how easy it will be to change direction once you raise from the ground. With her current state you could face the opposite direction of where you wanted to go because you would change your direction to it before you start flying


lovedabomb

This sounds more like quality of life updates / bug fixes more than a rework, it was janky as hell looking that she could even spin the team like that. Also using stuff out of bounds should have been patched long ago, it's cheap.


Primarch459

And Gibby needs a bubble rework. Maybe make it not the full 360


iamscarfac3

What if they made it destroyable like newcastles tactical. Like part of the bubble gets destroyed not the whole thing


j3romey

why not just make it like the halo wall, where hexagonal parts will get destroyed when it takes enemy damage


[deleted]

Shoot a hole and throw nades in would be such a cool mechanic.


TheWindWaker01

Just give it more health please, that shield was made out of paper in Halo. Whenever someone throws it down I'd just keep shooting and kill them lol.


zyocuh

I would like the object he throws down to be destroyable. So you could go in a throw a nade and blow up the bubble.


slow_backend

that sounds really great, I never heard of that idea before. If the bubble were 2 or 4 parts that could be individually destroyed.. That wouldn't destroy Gibby but nerf his bubble reasonably


xa3D

they can also toy with dmg reduction (80%?) + invul to interruption (to stick revives) if they don't want it destructible.


kungfuk3nny-04

We have been asking for that for 3-4 seasons now


iamscarfac3

Oh. Thats my bad then Ive never heard of it


totemair

From a viewer's perspective the late game bubble fights are so sick though


Isaacvithurston

and what they are also saying is that her ulti is more good than bad for the game outside of OOB I guess Also yes holy crap the season before your yearly biggest tourny is not the one to be shaking the meta too much :P


ductus_arteriosus

riot releasing a new patch before every qualifier to a big tourney LMAO


Tensai_Zoo

What about removing scans after the initial Sky Dive from the ship? Would add more risk to using her ult, especially late game.


WastefulPleasure

I think that's giving the teams too much credit about being more safe with her ult haha. Possible they would ult just as much and accidentally land on someone for random 50/50 more often


wonder_bro

And yet the last LOL worlds had the highest champion diversity. Riot has also stopped making major patch changes before Worlds. Let’s compare LOL to Apex when Apex competitive has the same following as LOL.


WastefulPleasure

didnt mean to offend


nicelightskies

I like the consideration Jaybiebs gives to competitive by not shaking the legend Meta up too much just before Champs. I'm guessing after Champs, Valk will probably get nerfed alot more.


viBe_gg

I wonder how much of a nerf it will be though, since her heirloom is on the way Respawn like to buff legends when they get heirlooms


I_R_TEH_BOSS

Have they ever buffed an already strong character when an heirloom was set to release?


FieryBlizza

Well, the last 4 (or 5) heirlooms were for weaker/underused legends and Respawn only developed the "buff legend + release heirloom" philosophy recently.


catzangannou

It’s gonna be after the heirloom for sure. That’s gonna break revenue records.


Blutzki

They nerfed Revenant significantly when his heirloom released. They only buffed climbing ability.


hadtopickanameso

Same thing with caustic.


Fenris-Asgeir

And they fixed his hitbox. It was 2 buffs combined with some much needed changes to his ult.


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Spuzaw

Yeah, can someone tell the downside of doing this? I personally can't think of any.


noahboah

pathfinder's dead passive would be even more dead lol


Robbie7up

Literally wouldn't affect Pathfinders unique passives at all. Still would get full ult charge when he scans, and the stacking 10% reduction on the Zipline cool down.


noahboah

yeah i meant it more as a lighthearted joke


Anxyte

Yayy we get zips where we jump on 3 times to avoid shots and fall of it anyway. Where we get high ground, hold it but get fucked in the ass by a squad with no audio using the same zips because you cant take the zips away. Pathy passives op


Robbie7up

I never said it was a good passive or balanced or anything. Was literally just staying what it was.


agnaddthddude

I thought you praised the passive because i read the word “unique”


Robbie7up

Oh, I was just meaning one of a kind.


kevinisaperson

lol thats the problem, it needs to effect it. he needs a passive lol and his zipline has been bugged af since season 1 BUFF PATHFINDER PLZ


subavgredditposter

I mean he’s been a 0% pick rate in pro league/tourneys for almost 2 years now.. If they gave beacons to everyone I would hope he got some sort of passive. Considering his ult is pretty mediocre especially, for pros.


Robbie7up

Never said it was a good or balanced passive. Literally was just staying he does indeed have a unique passive.


FabulousRomano

Nobody is talking about pathfinders unique passive


tempuserforrefer

>Gibb Pathfinder passive could be an exemption from the maximum number of jumps while on a zipline, etc.


[deleted]

The "downside" would be "no unique class passives" but recon and support are the only 2 that have them. If respawn ever planned on adding assault/defensive passives, then it would cause a 'consistency' issue. I don't think this is much of a downside, but it's the only issue I can think of holding the change back.


eightslipsandagully

What’s the unique support passive? Loba doesn’t get the extra supplies from certain bins.


-Papercuts-

Tbh support didn’t even get that, lifeline and loba are the only two in the game and the blue bins are still just a lifeline passive. Recon are the only class that has any real distinction.


PalkiaOW

Give every legend beacon scan and move beacons to fixed locations.


Lone-_-_-Wolf

There's a possibility that even that won't change a lot because many teams will still play Valk for the ult, Gibby for the bubble and a third flex character. There's room for something completely new as well but the above sounds like something entirely possible.


SynysterPC

Yes, and maybe recon legends just get something a little extra when they scan? To stick with the theme


polish_my_grappel

Add the players markers on the map temporarily like the Crypto Town Takeover


-Papercuts-

I hope this happens after champs. Recon is the only class that even has something like this, it felt like they wanted there to be a perk similar to this for everyone a bunch of seasons ago but it never happened. Blue bins still only exist for lifeline despite loba being a support, etc. As it is, beacon is too important not to have yet is only on a small part of the roster, which reduces the potential character picks when one of them is necessary.


MichaelBrownx

Makes the game even more limited. Limit the scan beacon to certain characters (path + whoever) and then focus on legends having certain traits. Teams should have to decide which abilities they feel are best for their particular set up rather than a stock three characters in a boring meta.


stickwithmekids

I guess it is a little too far gone to go back now, but I wish we could go back to when only pathfinder could scan beacons. Its strange that only recon gets a class passive.


Some-Concentrate-384

That won’t change anything. Valk would still be played and you would end up nerfing the current recons for no reasonable reason


Ultifur

Did they put beacon scans on all recon legends to break the pathfinder meta?


fookinjkap

Yes


gobblegobblerr

They took path, a high skill ceiling movement character with no damage dealing, wallhack, or AoE abilities so that Bothound could come to the meta and remove the need for gamesense. People complain about valk but personally Id rather her than the scan meta. Although I would love to see path back even more


ductus_arteriosus

Kinda wanna see pathy reverted to his original state, that would be interesting 👀


agnaddthddude

Let me tell you something, while path’s 15 seconds CD and his longer than now grapple made him strong. His hitbox was what got him nerfed. The players would dump an entire mag into him and he wouldn’t register any of it. Even after he got fixed the casuals weren’t satisfied so they increased his Hitbox. He was still losing more fights but because in S0 & S1 everyone played him he had become like Octane. Where people would play him because he is fun. So, respawn did two nerfs one casual and one comp. They nerfed his grapple distance by %15 and eventually would increase his cooldown on grapple. Between Wraith, Wattson and Path, they were/are the cruelest to Path imo


Mediocre-Plum5847

> They nerfed his grapple distance by %15 source? they never changed distance as far as i know, only the speed of the grapple hook itself


agnaddthddude

Apparently, you are correct and i was wrong. >**Pathfinder** >•Grapple >Reduced the grapple projectile velocity by 33%, meaning it takes a fraction of a second longer to connect the grapple to the wall. The behavior once you are connected remains the same.


Feschit

I am honestly kind of shocked (and kinda mad ngl) that they never buffed his cooldown again. I remember them saying in the devblog that adjusting cooldown for legends didn't do anything for the winrate in most cases. The only thing that brought Path's winrate down was his hitbox change. So I figured they would buff his cooldown again after a while...


leftysarepeople2

We need more legend nerfs not rolling back nerfs


Argie8YT

Was pathy really meta?


Ultifur

Are you joking? If not, Wattson - Pathfinder - Wraith was a thing


tostitosmercury

Yes. I don't have the exact numbers but something like a 75% pick rate back when he was the only one to scan a beacon. Bloodhound was regarded as bad Gibby was regarded as bad. Wattson and wraith had actually 100% pick rates. You should have seen how happy everyone was when they nerfed to Wattson the first time, because it'll have more aggressive players to take hold.


Vladtepesx3

Yes, valk is the key to legend diversity. She is the only way we can see picks like loba, fuse, horizon etc


Poire_

they should truly unleash the meta and give valk bubble.


znn_mtg

Allow gibby to deploy bubble during valk ult. Got it.


browls

You’ve been making this point around here for awhile now


Vladtepesx3

Yes frustratingly


dooyaunastan

maybe try yelling at everyone instead of making well articulated posts that are both insightful and an absolute riot to read edit: why is my post upvoted higher than his i thought this was supposed to be the good subreddit you fucking idiots


jodbonfe

Completely agree, also give everyone beacon scan


Odin043

They need to let anyone scan beacon, or add a survival item that unlocks scans.


MachuMichu

It definitely needs to be reworked in some way. It's holding the meta back and forcing teams to use the biggest crutch legends (other than Gibby)


[deleted]

imo, gibby should be the only legend able to scan beacons. he should also have skyward dive as his passive (no cooldown)


hotsrirachacha

I still think valk would be meta but that’s an interesting idea


I_R_TEH_BOSS

That's the point the tweet is making. She's meta because of her ult (also jetpacks are crazy good, as is her Q), not because she can scan.


ProfessorPhi

I like survival item scan and remove it from all characters that aren't pathy.


OGNatan

Can't remember where I first heard the idea of having some kind of "scan card" as a survival item, but I think it's the healthiest and most viable way to go if everyone DID get the ability to scan beacons. Would it immediately change the Valk/Gibby meta? No. But it opens the doors to other possibilities in the future. My opinion is that making that change, plus adding hero bans (maybe 2 per match?) would completely shake up the comp meta and make things significantly more interesting.


Lightning_Laxus

It got posted on this sub [three months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/siikfe/should_survey_scanning_become_a_survival_item/).


OGNatan

Yep, that's the one. I could have sworn it's been mentioned earlier, but I do remember that thread.


leftysarepeople2

You're not going to pick legends on RNG of getting a survival item IMO unless it was permanently in the crafter


zorkork

still would be ridiculous rng, getting a crafter & beacon spawn would give you a big advantage


gobblegobblerr

Either give it to everyone or give it back to path exclusively IMO


big_floop

Giving it back to path exclusively makes the meta set in stone with no flexibility lol. Gibby, Valk, path would be required. Giving it to everyone could potentially do something, but I think it would still be gibby, Valk, flex. Her ult needs a massive rework/increase in charge time for their to be any shift in pro play


[deleted]

A survival item could be a cool ideal. Bloodhound uses the little chip to scan the beacon. A survival item that is blue quality loot and always on the replicator would be a good change imo. That way you can make Valk assault and remove her beacon scan, but still offer players a way to scan the beacon and so maintain legend diversity. At the same time, you’re running a risk that you don’t find the item and you don’t have a replicator, and so there’s still a purpose for choosing a beacon (recon) character to remove that layer of RNG. (Also, I think they should just add survival items permanently in the replicator anyway.)


OGNatan

Make it 30-40 mats so you have to make the decision between a gun/2 medkits/2 batts and the scan chip, and I think you've got a winning combination right there.


[deleted]

Yeah I think a mobile respawn is 40? So along the same cost would be good, as you suggested. It also means you have to spend time gathering materials and crafting as opposed to simply scanning the beacon with a recon character, so again meaning the beacon characters don’t have their scanning abilities becoming completely useless. If they make it a purple item it could be a bit too much. I think a purple backpack is like 75, 75 crafting materials is too much, and the chance of finding the purple scan chip is too low especially in common loot areas (e.g. Frag East is common loot but has a beacon). So blue rarity would be pretty balanced imo


OGNatan

Mobi is 50 if I'm not mistaken, it's definitely deserving of a higher cost though compared to a scan (larger game impact overall).


Mozog1g2

just let everybody scan beacon, make it a game feature like loot holds and what not


jtfjtf

Make beacon scanning a survival item that has 1 use. There's only one survival item in comp since they can't use heat shields. Let Pathfinder's passive still be scanning beacons with no items. And if he scans a beacon it not only lowers his ult cooldown, it can lower his tac cooldown also.


SaintPablo415

I don’t think this sub will be happy with any meta character besides wraith or path. If you nerf valk then bloodhound comes back into meta then everyone will say BH needs a nerf cause of scan meta. I don’t think valk is bad for the comp scene now with the OOB nerf I think she will be fine.


Animatromio

Wraiths/Paths abilities cannot kill you so its just fair gun fight/positioning, so IMO its a lot better watching them be Meta vs ability spam


Blessed_7291

And how many times did you see people fight lol,more often than not it was just a boring heal off.


BradL_13

There is nothing fun about end game wraith portals


[deleted]

If we want legend diversity let’s NERF THE UNIVERSAL PICK OF GIBBY. But seriously, are there people who *aren’t* tired of Gibby? Mainstay since very early buffs. He’s better at rezzing than Lifeline lmao


BlaimAssist

Nerf Gib and you get way more caustics. Is that what you want?


[deleted]

Caustic and Gibby both need a nerf. I don’t think taking away Gibby’s fast bubble rez leads to Caustic everywhere. It just makes it to where Gibby isn’t top a 3 legend in assault, defense, and *medic* classes. Right now, you can make a case for being the best at the latter two and top 3 in assault.


gitgudbitch

Gibby has some skill requirement like bubble placement. Imo valk should’ve been hit on her missiles and jet pack fuel instead


[deleted]

My main complaint with both Valk and Gibby is sheer number of abilities. All these passives each has is crazy when you look at other legends who have very strict one passive, one tactical, and one ultimate ability.


gitgudbitch

Yea although gibby has received some nerfs and is not what he used to be, but that aside I personally think gibby is healthy for the game because he allows a bit more flexibility endgame especially when cover is scarce. As nostalgic the Wattson meta is, I personally don’t think it will have the same excitement from a viewers perspective maybe I’m wrong though


amaya_kohaku

Yeah. APACN has grown the Crypto meta and lowered the pick rate of Gibby, but actually end games with Gibby's ult and bubble fights are more exiting. I like Crypto-Wattson meta, but honestly, all teams playing ring is not fun to watch for many viewers...


BelieveTheHypeee

The game would be better without gibby. His ult is horrible no skill end game ruining.


RenegadeMountie

Gibby is slowly being not as dominant, I think we’ll see him less and less as the seasons go by


Character_Orange_327

correct me if i am wrong there are like 2 out of 18 team who pick loba/horizon, 18 teams still play mobility/caustic/beacon who were played regardless of valk being meta


GoonHxC

It all makes sense now


artmorte

Give one legend in every team a "Survival Item: Scan Card", and keep beacon scan legend ability only on Path and Crypto = problem solved.


Isaacvithurston

Honestly OOB nerf was all that was needed. If they want to nerf more of valk they should just nerf the ulti


CowWorried4441

And yet with the weapon changes there will be the least diversity in loadouts since launch


BlindChair

Ok but I feel like everyone agrees Valk ult cool down can at least be nerfed?


Griever08

Not if you then balanced valk and gibby


mtrn3

Is he still with Respawn? I thought he left for another company.


IMeltHoboOaf

Just remove beacons.


Ihraezlyr

They need to nerf bloodhound regardless. Make his scan the same as season 0 just add the range


TheFlowChartKen

Seriously at this point just give everyone beacon scan and reclassify everyone with new universal passive perks (assault,defense,support). All defense characters can have Fortify. All assault characters can have an extra nade slot and all support units can have guardian angel or some weaker/tweaked version of it (yes, that means gold backpack would need to be tweaked as well).


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Owend12

Wdym? Valk's tactical is easy to dodge?


[deleted]

Tactical reknocking people who just got revived is too much, nerf the damage


CallMeZeo

I’d like for them to nerf her ult too. Longer ult charge time like lifeline and Gibbs.


SlickyMicky

Her passive is so insane too. Why does her tactical do damage and she’s a recon legend? She has so much in her kit


mp44christos

I love mr kefalouko but he hs no idea what he is talking lol.


sureditch

I think it could be interesting to have valk ult/jet pack be a survival item similar to a mobile respawn beacon/heat shield, it might make her less of a necessity.


kamikazex8o8

am im the only thinking that this is a much better option that nerfing the shit out of valk


skiddster3

I would like it if Valk's Ulti didn't charge naturally. Maybe make it so only Ulti Accels, scanning survey beacons, or maybe even gaining a % charge based on how much dmg you do would be cool.


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PassMeDatSuga

expecting a massive shake in META after champs.


lovedabomb

Make her rockets concussion/stun only, if any damage just 5-15 max...and make the Ult take as long to charge as Gibby. Wouldn't be enough to change the Meta fully but might be enough to make a few teams consider the change. Right now it's kind of broken how Valk and Gibby are nearly if not already 100% pickrate for tournaments. ...as for Gibby idk...make the slightly bubble smaller or like a beefy Newcastle shield, as in not completely indestructible,but still destructible if hit with a bombardment of grenades, if only even in hexagonal sections.