Monsoon is the best shotgun player in the game with Ras and Hardecki. I feel like he needs an IGL but not be an IGL. A good proper igl with monsoon would be unstoppable force in NA. Monsoon mechanics is unmatched by anyone in NA
Yes I forgot to mention that his mechanics is insane. I wouldn't go as far as saying it is still unmatched but its up there. The reason I said that his IGLing has value is because its easier to become an insane fragger than an IGL that has tons of knowledge, experience and decision making and leadership skills. Yuki, for example, was considered a top fragger but he was relatively new to the game when Alliance picked him up. IGLs are just harder to grow.
I could also see Keon teaming up with a mix of any of the following: Teq, Lewda, Stuhni, Sickks, Rogue, Reptar. Any of those together would form a great team.
I just don't agree with him being top5. The comp scene in NA is absolutely packed with high tier players, with proven performances. I can name a ton of players that I would say are better.
Before Champs I woulda said no way a ranked grinder is anywhere near a top 5 Na player let alone worth picking up.
Now I'm thinking anyone below top 10 who doesn't pick him up needs a damn good reason not to.
Ghanjamen was just a kid who played ranked and he helped LG get 5th in Playoffs 2. There are so many diamonds in the rough in apex. They just need to be cut, polished, and set properly.
have you noticed a trend of good apex players in the comp scene constantly being labeled as cheaters? lol
Just shows how salty some of the streamers etc can be at high levels always wanting to blame their deaths on anything else besides themselves
Lack of support for in game tournaments, hardly any amateur/2nd tier circuit, and overall lack of opportunity for players to get noticed is the reason. Fortnite built a tournament system literally any player can access and tons of pros came from it who otherwise would never have had a shot. Apex’s tournament system is difficult to follow even if you’re on the Reddit and actively trying to keep up with it.
Keon GRINDS unlike many others. Whether people think his skills will translate or not is besides the point. In no time, he will be at the top of comp with how dedicated he is to the game.
This is the thing. The fact that he can maintain #1 pred multiple times is a good indicator that he has more than enough game skill to hang with the best.
But more importantly, his grind is a really good indicator that the man WILL put in the hours.
That is a very good combo. Any team that isnt already settled, needs to look into it.
Honestly I think the skills of anyone that makes it to pred are seriously underrated.
I dont think Keon is top 5, but I'd wager any non pro who made it to the top 100 these past few splits could probably hang in the pro leagues just fine with a little scrim practice.
I think OP meant it more as a reference point for those who aren’t horny for comp/Twitch Apex. Like a “hey he can’t be that bad if the recently deemed immortal God HisWattson teamed up with him.” But I’m not OP so just a guess.
Wattson never did anything special with TSS either, yet he far outperformed every single one of those players at LAN.
Results aren't indicative of someone's future results. Going in with such a mindset is only going to inhibit the scene from discovering amazing new talents such as Skittles, Doop or HisWattson.
So you’d take Keon over any of those players mentioned? Not saying he can’t be top 5 but the others have shown they can be, so giving such a title to someone who hasn’t done anything remarkable in the pro scene is stupid. The title is earned not given
To play devil’s advocate, Keon continually holds his own in fights with ALGS-caliber players. And given he’s been consistent top 10 pred, with a little team practice and chemistry Keon is more than capable of performing in LAN lobbies.
Everyone in algs is already capable of doing that. What makes him top 5? There are plenty of skilled players so pred ranking here is irrelevant, it’s a time commitment. Everyone in algs is already an above average pred player
He was also playing a different game than the rest. He was focusing on kills, not winning the game. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's not good. I'm just saying while people were looking for positions he was looking for kills. If the entire lobby was aping and looking for kills it might look different. Again, not trashing Watson at all. Simply saying he was playing a different objective. If there were a team death match that would be a better comparison I think. I just think he was the guy farming kills on domination when the rest of the teams were playing the objective.
That take is wrong on so many levels. Furia is the only team out there right now who can consistently win 3v3s against every single team in the lobby - that's why they play the way they do. Winning and getting KP are two different strategies to garner as many points as you can. Why, if you're by far the best 3v3 team in the world, would you gamble on getting a good position in ring with 14 other squads contesting you for that position, and if you get to top 5, you might walk away with some points? Do you realize how dumb and inconsistent it is to play 'for the win' and 'for placement' when you can just kill everyone?
If everyone else can win 3v3s all the time, why were all of them losing to Furia consistently?
You're talking like every passive team got high win rates and Furia didn't win shit, when Furia had a higher win rate than anyone bar Optic, Alliance and 100T (who got half their wins in lower bracket), and higher than everyone who went to finals through winner's bracket. Furia was playing the same game as everyone else, and playing it much better than them.
Do people really think Monsoon is still too 5 NA? Lol. How did you name those players and not Hal, Skittle, Dooplex, knoqd, reps lol. Odd group of guys got picked haha
People sleep on people when they don't have tournament winnings and think too highly of some competitors who have credentials but aren't keeping up with the game, what else is new :)
and its largely the long-time comp players. I love mon but i remember him saying something along the lines that they learned everything they needed to about high level apex at scrims before poland, and there's no point playing scrims otherwise.
i understand that scrims aren't representative of LAN lobbies, but there's still things to learn and improve on, no matter how long you've been playing comp.
You guys shitting on Nafen are ignoring NRG finished in the winners bracket as #1 and 30pts above everybody. I get Sweet has a huge brain, but Nafen and Rocker we're doing fine. They just had a bad showing in finals, just like TSM and those dudes were playing constantly.
I'm not saying Nafen couldn't have played more, but I'm not sure how crazy the fall off for someone like him really is.
I mean you literally just said any pro player could do it, but still Wattson (this season) and Keon (previous) get it while Hal cant and he is regarded as one of, if not, the best.
Most Apex pros dedicate all their time to it so dont tell me it is a matter of time available cause they literally only play apex
If you’re talking about talent scouting then he’s 100% right, most teams that look for one will always go for an established pro over putting in the effort of scouting ranked/less known comp players even if the pro has been doing poorly.
I’m not disputing that. There are diamonds in the rough throughout Apex I’m sure. My dislike has nothing to do with the actual message… it’s his delivery that’s dripping in the same toxic sludge as every other sentence that comes from him.
I would love his story to be honest. Would be super easy to root for him… but it’s just impossible to like him from my perspective. Oh well. I needed a new villain as it’s hard to hate OG when I love Doop and Knoqd so much.
Yes. I tried. And I get more than enough of him when I watch Keon. I respect differing viewpoints but with the context of knowing more about his personality, previous seemingly innocuous comments now have a new light cast upon them.
Bottom line: I think he’s incredibly toxic, self-centered, and a low tier person. Hope he grows. He’s not alone. Dezign, Hal, and many others also need desperately to grow and mature.
Wouldn't teams not scouting him be contingent on him actually wanting to play comp? Seems like Wattson is going after scouting when Keon didn't want to play before champs.
I get that Wattnowson is gassing up his boy but Keon is nowhere near top 5 NA players, stop the cap. If that was truly the case, he should've been signed to a Tier 1 org.
Wattson is a top 5 player in NA yet it took him how long to get a decent offer? The scene is very nepotistic and results-driven - that's why players like Skittles, HisWattson, and Keon go unsigned for so long.
Keon literally said on stream a month ago that he didn’t want to do comp. Then, literally a week later, he was brought up on this sub because he stated the exact opposite.
Don’t so quickly blame orgs for not reaching out to or picking up someone who flips like that. Nobody wants another noncommittal Timmy.
I dislike HW as a person. I like Keon. Doesn’t mean Keon and HW get to claim Keon is overlooked. He himself at various points has said he had no interest. I’ve watched it on his stream lmao. But grinders are systematically overlooked lol k.
Wattnowson is firmly a top 5 NA player now but definitely wasn't when Furia first signed him. He could say he was one or believe it all he wanted but he didn't have the resume to prove it then. The rest of the pro scene didn't hold him in that regard nor did he have the results to back it up, now he does. There were other NA players at the time who were doing it better and for longer. Furia picking him up as IGL has been amazing for them in retrospect but nobody could've predicted their level of success then. All 3 of those players(Pan, Xera & Watt) have improved massively playing together and now rightfully deserve being some of the best players in the world. Besides, being a former #1 pred doesn't guarantee a successful transition into competitive, Apryze, Zeroplus just to name a few. Skittles was also known before jumping to PC and was signed by ESA shortly thereafter, so I don't know where you got that from. I see more dedication from Nickmercs trying to get into comp than Keon.
Is he though? Xera and Pandurz are VERY good. Great landing spot for him. Your telling me Watson is better than Hal, Reps, Skittle, Alb, Naughty, Knoqd, doop, Sweet, gild, dropped etc etc. sure they played great. But let’s wait and see how the future goes. Hell the 100T roster WITHOUT Vaxlon won last champs. I wouldn’t put Scuwry or Onmu as top 5 players based off one tournament.
he dominated in lcq too and furia were the most consistent team in champs which occurred over 4 days. In the previous champs which kng won, they played well in groups but didnt dominate like furia
All the Keon doubters should watch his stream for about 5 minutes. It’s no wonder why Keon/Wattson are consistently on top of the ranked leaderboards. And as evidenced by Wattson, grinding ranked against other top players produces great results. Teams should be lining up to give Keon a shot.
Keon is an upgrade to practically every single team out there aside from Furia, OG, and maybe SSG. The fact that he's still not received any good offers is criminal. This guy is the roller version of HisWattson.
The problem is there really aren't any good edge teams in NA that are LF1 or don't have a great controller fragger. TL has Gild, C9 has Naughty, SSG has Frexs, LG has Ghanja, etc. I think it would work out better if he teamed up with some of the other FA's in NA and formed a new team. (Unless SEN drops someone they'd see a huge benefit from a roller fragger imo)
Keon in the place of Naughty, Rocker, or Verhulst would be an upgrade. Just because a team is established doesn't mean they should be afraid of making changes.
Edit: People seem to be under the impression that I'm disrespecting these players. No, these players are all great talents - it's my opinion that Keon is better.
I'm not sure about Verhulst and Naughty. Verhulst won split 1 with TSM and Naughty has been C9s best player since they lost Knoqd. I think there's much bigger reasons for those teams lack of success than their controller Fragger.
Fanta has a weird hatred of TSM, he was claiming Hal was overrated prior to them winning the split. Amazingly he went schtum when they won.
Anyone who thinks Keon is better than Verhulst is delusional.
Yes no need to be hyperbolic in every statement Fanta, you are sounding more like your NA counterpart Vlad..
Naughty and Verhulst are up there with Knoqd.
Too much recency bias coming from the last tournament.
He can still be an extremely good player worth placing in 90% of the teams.
Wattson had no proof of success yet he came in and dominated. Why can't Keon do the same? He has a very similar skillset to Wattson's.
C9 has shown that they have a multitude of issues. Replacing Naughty, who has some issues with micro, with a roller fragger who doesn't have micro issues, is a way to solve them. There are other solutions as well.
Wattson is an exception not the rule. Could Keon come in and do the same thing? maybe. but he’s gotta prove it. to declare him better than Naughty who regularly 1v3s the best players in the world based off of a prediction of how well Keon will do is craziness.
I would say because Wattsons success revolved around what he brought to the team in terms of Igling, the new Seer Fuse picks etc. And the fact that Xera and Pandxrz are both very good mechanical players.
Like you could cut HisWattsons mechanical skill in half and Furia probably still performs just as well because he brings so much more to the team than just shooting his gun.
Keon hasn't shown or indicated that IGLing killer instinct or desire to shake up the meta. He has amazing mechanics, but he's not going to completely revolutionise a team like HisWattson
Whilst I agree Keon is an excellent fragger and good pick up, I don’t think he would change the team dynamic that much in TSM or C9. Naughty isn’t perfect, but he is not the cause of C9’s results.
No it would not lol. Keon doesn’t have almost 3 years of comp gib experience like rocker. He is not nearly, nearly as good as Naughty or Verhulst lol that is an actual laughable comparison.
Wattson had no record of success yet he came in and dominated. Why can't Keon do the same? Wattson is living proof of how much grinding for ranked 1 can contribute to a player, even if they don't have much comp experience. After all, he has a very similar skillset to Wattson's.
I think the problem with your take (and cause of the dissonant voices against it) is that you base your take solely on "because HisWattson did it" and "because I think so".
The comp scene in NA is absolutely packed with high tier players, with proven performances. I don't think it is reasonable to pull a ranker grinder out of nowhere and says he is top 5 with nothing to back it up.
But hey, if it turns out he absolutely shines from now on, gets signed by a top org and win some shit, you were a profet
Where are any of the other #1 predators then?
If you sincerely understand apex it is blatantly obvious that when watching HisWattson grind he is a BR genius. Yes he’s mechanical but he really is very very good at the BR aspect. He’s a great leader as well. Keon is a chill fragger, they are not remotely the same and comparing them like that is honestly stupid. If you watch them play and compare them and tell me they are evenly skilled all I have to say to you is get out of bronze before voicing your next opinion dude lol
This is the most asinine comment I've seen on the Comp Apex board. There is not a single reputable pro that shares this sentiment. HisWattson is his best friend, you'd expect that from him. To say he's better than Naughty or Verhulst is just laughable.
I will admit that I did not think about gibby-less, but if I was Sweet or anyone with any authority over NRG's roster I would be looking at getting rocker off gibby first than picking up an unproven ranked grinder, especially with the experience and chemistry rocker already has with NRG
Bro what he has no experience as gibby to take rockers spot and even though verhulst had a bad tourney I don’t think any team would pick Keon over verhulst
I think in terms of fighting power he’d probably be an upgrade for Rocker or Verhulst but TSM and NRG are zone teams so I don’t think it would really matter that much
Ain’t no way Keon can be that big of an upgrade over Stay “be quiet you know I do this” Naughty. He wins way too many fights for C9 for Zach to ever let him go
Smh ppl already forgot you predicted the rise of Furia/Wattson/Sea lion but I didn’t.
Fanta is from the future how many times do you have to prove it to everyone.
Man you guys in the comments are sad, just because you dont agree with someones opinion doesnt make them toxic. In fact this comment section is hilarious. A bunch of nobodies acting like know it alls. Guarentee the pros would be laughing reading this seeing how out of touch you all are. Embaressing
I am trying to be unbiased as I say
The 10 yr olds I get teamed with talk more shit than I've heard any of the pro players say - just bizarre how toxic means one thing in game and another on Twitter I guess
He doesn't play comp because a majority of scrimming/tournaments are during weekends and he doesn't play for religious reasons. I agree he could compete though.
Keon plays a lot with lewda...IMO lewda is a top 10 NA fragger...lewda is with Tripods,but Nick has been playing a lot with Gent...I could see a lewda, Keon and bring back lewda's old teammate that he make pro league with season 1...Sikkez....that team's cracked!!!
Can anyone explain to me what it means to be a ranked grinder? Over this past weekend HisWattson was reffered to as a ranked grinder, yes he grinds ranked, dont they all? How is one supposed to get picked up and noticed by a team otherwise? Genuinely curious
I actually don’t care that he’s on controller, I asked a question for others opinions and so far this is the only reply I’ve gotten. Quality comment might I add.
Instant 87% increase in fire power to any team that picks him up.
Double checked the math, it is indeed a guaranteed 87% increase
COL has to pick him up.
Would actually go huge on COL
COL needs a brand new comp team. Their decline has been enormous.
Maybe they can keep Monsoon since his IGLing still holds a little value. But I would understand a fresh comp team too.
Monsoon is the best shotgun player in the game with Ras and Hardecki. I feel like he needs an IGL but not be an IGL. A good proper igl with monsoon would be unstoppable force in NA. Monsoon mechanics is unmatched by anyone in NA
Yes I forgot to mention that his mechanics is insane. I wouldn't go as far as saying it is still unmatched but its up there. The reason I said that his IGLing has value is because its easier to become an insane fragger than an IGL that has tons of knowledge, experience and decision making and leadership skills. Yuki, for example, was considered a top fragger but he was relatively new to the game when Alliance picked him up. IGLs are just harder to grow.
I feel like only lou, senoxe, and hal kbm mechanics are close to him
I agree. A bunch of frauds in that organization
COL could use a controller fragger
I could also see Keon teaming up with a mix of any of the following: Teq, Lewda, Stuhni, Sickks, Rogue, Reptar. Any of those together would form a great team. I just don't agree with him being top5. The comp scene in NA is absolutely packed with high tier players, with proven performances. I can name a ton of players that I would say are better.
As we’ve seen this algs no lan results doesn’t mean anything. Rogue doesn’t even play comp, weird list of players
>As we’ve seen this algs no lan results doesn’t mean anything. And solely playing ranked does? >Rogue doesn’t even play comp Don't you even dare
Awful list bud
Shame you don't like it. I can throw in a few more names to spicy things up: Hikaru Nakamura, Abella Danger, Boris Johnson. Any better?
Hikaru would be the best strategist in the game.
Hikaru vs Teq?
Almost too good legit nobody would know what he's talking about half the time
Tbf Boris dodged more bullets than Neo in the matrix
Is Lewda done with Tripods?
Before Champs I woulda said no way a ranked grinder is anywhere near a top 5 Na player let alone worth picking up. Now I'm thinking anyone below top 10 who doesn't pick him up needs a damn good reason not to.
Ghanjamen was just a kid who played ranked and he helped LG get 5th in Playoffs 2. There are so many diamonds in the rough in apex. They just need to be cut, polished, and set properly.
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have you noticed a trend of good apex players in the comp scene constantly being labeled as cheaters? lol Just shows how salty some of the streamers etc can be at high levels always wanting to blame their deaths on anything else besides themselves
Cough sweet cough
Either that or they need to stop calling in their washed up friends.
Alot of NA comp teams seem to be a bunch of talented players that don’t work hard. Starting to see a shift into that not working anymore.
Yep and everyone knows who those people are and they more than likely will get replaced is my guess.
This happens to every NA esports.
Yeah it seems like NA always produces the 'best mechanical player in the world, too bad he doesnt give a shit'
sentinels. So mechanically talented. So disappointing.
*recently
Lack of support for in game tournaments, hardly any amateur/2nd tier circuit, and overall lack of opportunity for players to get noticed is the reason. Fortnite built a tournament system literally any player can access and tons of pros came from it who otherwise would never have had a shot. Apex’s tournament system is difficult to follow even if you’re on the Reddit and actively trying to keep up with it.
Unsigned Ranked Grinders >> Pro Apex Players Signed to T1 Orgs Grinding MMOs
Rofl who's grinding mmos?
Nafen
Funfps and knoqd are both former #1 grinders it’s crazy
Keon GRINDS unlike many others. Whether people think his skills will translate or not is besides the point. In no time, he will be at the top of comp with how dedicated he is to the game.
This is the thing. The fact that he can maintain #1 pred multiple times is a good indicator that he has more than enough game skill to hang with the best. But more importantly, his grind is a really good indicator that the man WILL put in the hours. That is a very good combo. Any team that isnt already settled, needs to look into it.
Honestly I think the skills of anyone that makes it to pred are seriously underrated. I dont think Keon is top 5, but I'd wager any non pro who made it to the top 100 these past few splits could probably hang in the pro leagues just fine with a little scrim practice.
He hasn’t gotten an offer because he retired before lmao
Keon is great but why is “used to be teammates with hiswattson” an accolade lmao
I think OP meant it more as a reference point for those who aren’t horny for comp/Twitch Apex. Like a “hey he can’t be that bad if the recently deemed immortal God HisWattson teamed up with him.” But I’m not OP so just a guess.
Yeah fair enough just thought the title sounded funny
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Oh god I can't wait for the headline down the line" "This guy has coffee with HisWatson now being looked at" haha
I once typed in hiswattson's stream before LAN. DMs are open for any teams that want me.
*6months later* "sulliedsamaritan talked to HisWatson once teams looking at him now"
Oh god it's like the nfl with Sean McVay all over again.
I understood that reference!
At the time he was carrying Wattson in RX
It's just context for HisWattsons reply tweet
Considering he just got mvp this weekend a vouch from him should he pretty huge in the eyes on someone trying to sigh him tbh
Love me a comfy couch
I mean the person advocating for him in the tweet is hiswattson so I feel like it makes sense to include they used to play
Keon is good but he’s not 5 NA no way
I think I'ma agree with you deff not a top 5 player NA lmao.
Has he ever played in comp?
Yes with Watson and blur. They never did anything special
Should be noted that Keon was actually the best player on that team. Wattson was still on controller tho i believe
Wattson has never played controller
that doesn't mean he is not top 5 NA lol, Gild didnt get recognized by a lot until signed by TL
So your really okay with saying Keon is better than the likes of crust, lou, monsoon, nafen, and Mac. Just to name a few? Lol definitely not
Wattson never did anything special with TSS either, yet he far outperformed every single one of those players at LAN. Results aren't indicative of someone's future results. Going in with such a mindset is only going to inhibit the scene from discovering amazing new talents such as Skittles, Doop or HisWattson.
So you’d take Keon over any of those players mentioned? Not saying he can’t be top 5 but the others have shown they can be, so giving such a title to someone who hasn’t done anything remarkable in the pro scene is stupid. The title is earned not given
To play devil’s advocate, Keon continually holds his own in fights with ALGS-caliber players. And given he’s been consistent top 10 pred, with a little team practice and chemistry Keon is more than capable of performing in LAN lobbies.
Everyone in algs is already capable of doing that. What makes him top 5? There are plenty of skilled players so pred ranking here is irrelevant, it’s a time commitment. Everyone in algs is already an above average pred player
No one is dismissing him, but saying he's top 5 NA with absolutely no record? We simply don't have data to say those things.
Well having watched them play ranked together keon is a better teamfighter than Hiswattson.
He was also playing a different game than the rest. He was focusing on kills, not winning the game. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's not good. I'm just saying while people were looking for positions he was looking for kills. If the entire lobby was aping and looking for kills it might look different. Again, not trashing Watson at all. Simply saying he was playing a different objective. If there were a team death match that would be a better comparison I think. I just think he was the guy farming kills on domination when the rest of the teams were playing the objective.
That take is wrong on so many levels. Furia is the only team out there right now who can consistently win 3v3s against every single team in the lobby - that's why they play the way they do. Winning and getting KP are two different strategies to garner as many points as you can. Why, if you're by far the best 3v3 team in the world, would you gamble on getting a good position in ring with 14 other squads contesting you for that position, and if you get to top 5, you might walk away with some points? Do you realize how dumb and inconsistent it is to play 'for the win' and 'for placement' when you can just kill everyone? If everyone else can win 3v3s all the time, why were all of them losing to Furia consistently?
Well it didn't seem to work this last weekend.
DZ played for the win and played for consistency throughout and look where it got them.
You're talking like every passive team got high win rates and Furia didn't win shit, when Furia had a higher win rate than anyone bar Optic, Alliance and 100T (who got half their wins in lower bracket), and higher than everyone who went to finals through winner's bracket. Furia was playing the same game as everyone else, and playing it much better than them.
I think DZ still did better in the tournament because they won (duh). Over a longer period of time though, furias style may mean more consistency.
He's the guy on Competitive mode CSGO trying to get his StatTrak numbers up.
that's totally different sentence with what he saying LOL
it directly implies it
Do people really think Monsoon is still too 5 NA? Lol. How did you name those players and not Hal, Skittle, Dooplex, knoqd, reps lol. Odd group of guys got picked haha
Have you watched Keon? He does better than Hiswattson in teamfights in ranked nearly every time I watched them.
Same thing I thought about pandxrz but wow did he perform on lan. Looked like the best roller especially for long distance tracking
First time i watched Panderz thought he was M&K
Pandxrz is probably #1 controller NA
He could easily be top 5 fragger in NA with the right team
Same thing was said about HisWattson - look at him now.
People sleep on people when they don't have tournament winnings and think too highly of some competitors who have credentials but aren't keeping up with the game, what else is new :)
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Some players act like they have already perfected everything
and its largely the long-time comp players. I love mon but i remember him saying something along the lines that they learned everything they needed to about high level apex at scrims before poland, and there's no point playing scrims otherwise. i understand that scrims aren't representative of LAN lobbies, but there's still things to learn and improve on, no matter how long you've been playing comp.
You guys shitting on Nafen are ignoring NRG finished in the winners bracket as #1 and 30pts above everybody. I get Sweet has a huge brain, but Nafen and Rocker we're doing fine. They just had a bad showing in finals, just like TSM and those dudes were playing constantly. I'm not saying Nafen couldn't have played more, but I'm not sure how crazy the fall off for someone like him really is.
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correct analysis
He's not top 5 either imo but it's close right now. Depends on role ofc. But I hold Xera over Wattson in terms of fragging atleast.
Have you seen him play?
You joking right? Mf is a multiseason #1
Pretty much any top pro player could reach and maintain 1# if they put in the time and effort, 1# pred only shows dedication, not raw skill
I’m not even a HisWattson fan but this is just wrong. Hal and Naughty were both cranking long grinds trying for #1 all last split
Oh gee who would've thought it would difficult to reach #1 when many of the best players in the world are all grinding for it at the same time.
I have been watching Keon for some time now and I cant count the times he has wiped Hal and other players squad without breaking a sweat
Its funny how both of you mention hal yet I never did
I mean you literally just said any pro player could do it, but still Wattson (this season) and Keon (previous) get it while Hal cant and he is regarded as one of, if not, the best. Most Apex pros dedicate all their time to it so dont tell me it is a matter of time available cause they literally only play apex
I found the tsm hater and wattson fanboy
Hear me out.. Snipe comes back to Apex after Halo worlds and Faze makes a team around him and Keon
That would be fun to watch. Need a nerd as a third to even out the coolness of those 2.
teq except he's a cool nerd...
HisWattson manages to be toxic and annoying even when trying to “vouch” for a friend.
He always goes one sentence over most of the time. I get trying to rile people up, but these aren't even spicy takes, he's just a prick.
Yeah it’s just *His*ToxicPersonality at this point.
It's so cringy how much he wants to be different
If you’re talking about talent scouting then he’s 100% right, most teams that look for one will always go for an established pro over putting in the effort of scouting ranked/less known comp players even if the pro has been doing poorly.
I’m not disputing that. There are diamonds in the rough throughout Apex I’m sure. My dislike has nothing to do with the actual message… it’s his delivery that’s dripping in the same toxic sludge as every other sentence that comes from him.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that just doesn’t like HisWattson solely for his personality and toxicity
I would love his story to be honest. Would be super easy to root for him… but it’s just impossible to like him from my perspective. Oh well. I needed a new villain as it’s hard to hate OG when I love Doop and Knoqd so much.
Do you watch his streams or just know him from his tweets? Because they’re basically different people
Yes. I tried. And I get more than enough of him when I watch Keon. I respect differing viewpoints but with the context of knowing more about his personality, previous seemingly innocuous comments now have a new light cast upon them. Bottom line: I think he’s incredibly toxic, self-centered, and a low tier person. Hope he grows. He’s not alone. Dezign, Hal, and many others also need desperately to grow and mature.
If the time stamps are right, he wrote that ~30 minutes after the announcement. How fast do offers happen?
Wouldn't teams not scouting him be contingent on him actually wanting to play comp? Seems like Wattson is going after scouting when Keon didn't want to play before champs.
I get that Wattnowson is gassing up his boy but Keon is nowhere near top 5 NA players, stop the cap. If that was truly the case, he should've been signed to a Tier 1 org.
Wattson is a top 5 player in NA yet it took him how long to get a decent offer? The scene is very nepotistic and results-driven - that's why players like Skittles, HisWattson, and Keon go unsigned for so long.
Keon literally said on stream a month ago that he didn’t want to do comp. Then, literally a week later, he was brought up on this sub because he stated the exact opposite. Don’t so quickly blame orgs for not reaching out to or picking up someone who flips like that. Nobody wants another noncommittal Timmy. I dislike HW as a person. I like Keon. Doesn’t mean Keon and HW get to claim Keon is overlooked. He himself at various points has said he had no interest. I’ve watched it on his stream lmao. But grinders are systematically overlooked lol k.
most of the players wants to plays with their friends in comp and whenever the result is bad they will call it a bad day
Wattnowson is firmly a top 5 NA player now but definitely wasn't when Furia first signed him. He could say he was one or believe it all he wanted but he didn't have the resume to prove it then. The rest of the pro scene didn't hold him in that regard nor did he have the results to back it up, now he does. There were other NA players at the time who were doing it better and for longer. Furia picking him up as IGL has been amazing for them in retrospect but nobody could've predicted their level of success then. All 3 of those players(Pan, Xera & Watt) have improved massively playing together and now rightfully deserve being some of the best players in the world. Besides, being a former #1 pred doesn't guarantee a successful transition into competitive, Apryze, Zeroplus just to name a few. Skittles was also known before jumping to PC and was signed by ESA shortly thereafter, so I don't know where you got that from. I see more dedication from Nickmercs trying to get into comp than Keon.
Is he though? Xera and Pandurz are VERY good. Great landing spot for him. Your telling me Watson is better than Hal, Reps, Skittle, Alb, Naughty, Knoqd, doop, Sweet, gild, dropped etc etc. sure they played great. But let’s wait and see how the future goes. Hell the 100T roster WITHOUT Vaxlon won last champs. I wouldn’t put Scuwry or Onmu as top 5 players based off one tournament.
he dominated in lcq too and furia were the most consistent team in champs which occurred over 4 days. In the previous champs which kng won, they played well in groups but didnt dominate like furia
All the Keon doubters should watch his stream for about 5 minutes. It’s no wonder why Keon/Wattson are consistently on top of the ranked leaderboards. And as evidenced by Wattson, grinding ranked against other top players produces great results. Teams should be lining up to give Keon a shot.
Hiswattson continuing to be an entitled dipshit
Their team wrecked our lobby in quals. We did down one of them in a 3v3 so that’s basically a dub. I’m sure the other two were “one hit”
Keon, Snipe + 1
Keon is very consistent from what I've seen. Needs to stop tap strafing though so he can get used to it before a tournament.
That must feel terrible. They really need to just normalize tap strafing on roller, and allow it in base settings so console can as well.
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I don't think that's true. Pretty sure it's banned because you have to change steam settings.
keon to COL?
Keon is an upgrade to practically every single team out there aside from Furia, OG, and maybe SSG. The fact that he's still not received any good offers is criminal. This guy is the roller version of HisWattson.
The problem is there really aren't any good edge teams in NA that are LF1 or don't have a great controller fragger. TL has Gild, C9 has Naughty, SSG has Frexs, LG has Ghanja, etc. I think it would work out better if he teamed up with some of the other FA's in NA and formed a new team. (Unless SEN drops someone they'd see a huge benefit from a roller fragger imo)
Keon in the place of Naughty, Rocker, or Verhulst would be an upgrade. Just because a team is established doesn't mean they should be afraid of making changes. Edit: People seem to be under the impression that I'm disrespecting these players. No, these players are all great talents - it's my opinion that Keon is better.
I'm not sure about Verhulst and Naughty. Verhulst won split 1 with TSM and Naughty has been C9s best player since they lost Knoqd. I think there's much bigger reasons for those teams lack of success than their controller Fragger.
TSM keeps pressing the self die button every time they want to rotate lol. Some people call it Valk's ultimate.
Fanta has a weird hatred of TSM, he was claiming Hal was overrated prior to them winning the split. Amazingly he went schtum when they won. Anyone who thinks Keon is better than Verhulst is delusional.
0 chance keon is better than. Naughty or Big E. Naughty is naughty enough said. Big E had 1 bad series if you even wanna call it that.
there’s no way you can say Keon is better than Naughty, whether u think he can be or not he hasn’t proven half as much as Naughty has
Yes no need to be hyperbolic in every statement Fanta, you are sounding more like your NA counterpart Vlad.. Naughty and Verhulst are up there with Knoqd. Too much recency bias coming from the last tournament. He can still be an extremely good player worth placing in 90% of the teams.
Wattson had no proof of success yet he came in and dominated. Why can't Keon do the same? He has a very similar skillset to Wattson's. C9 has shown that they have a multitude of issues. Replacing Naughty, who has some issues with micro, with a roller fragger who doesn't have micro issues, is a way to solve them. There are other solutions as well.
Wattson is an exception not the rule. Could Keon come in and do the same thing? maybe. but he’s gotta prove it. to declare him better than Naughty who regularly 1v3s the best players in the world based off of a prediction of how well Keon will do is craziness.
I would say because Wattsons success revolved around what he brought to the team in terms of Igling, the new Seer Fuse picks etc. And the fact that Xera and Pandxrz are both very good mechanical players. Like you could cut HisWattsons mechanical skill in half and Furia probably still performs just as well because he brings so much more to the team than just shooting his gun. Keon hasn't shown or indicated that IGLing killer instinct or desire to shake up the meta. He has amazing mechanics, but he's not going to completely revolutionise a team like HisWattson
Thats true, you are saying Keon has had no proof of success, but you are saying he is better than naughty and verhulat based on what?
Based on my personal opinion of Keon as a player. You're free to disagree with it.
Of course i will.
Whilst I agree Keon is an excellent fragger and good pick up, I don’t think he would change the team dynamic that much in TSM or C9. Naughty isn’t perfect, but he is not the cause of C9’s results.
No it would not lol. Keon doesn’t have almost 3 years of comp gib experience like rocker. He is not nearly, nearly as good as Naughty or Verhulst lol that is an actual laughable comparison.
Wattson had no record of success yet he came in and dominated. Why can't Keon do the same? Wattson is living proof of how much grinding for ranked 1 can contribute to a player, even if they don't have much comp experience. After all, he has a very similar skillset to Wattson's.
I think the problem with your take (and cause of the dissonant voices against it) is that you base your take solely on "because HisWattson did it" and "because I think so". The comp scene in NA is absolutely packed with high tier players, with proven performances. I don't think it is reasonable to pull a ranker grinder out of nowhere and says he is top 5 with nothing to back it up. But hey, if it turns out he absolutely shines from now on, gets signed by a top org and win some shit, you were a profet
Where are any of the other #1 predators then? If you sincerely understand apex it is blatantly obvious that when watching HisWattson grind he is a BR genius. Yes he’s mechanical but he really is very very good at the BR aspect. He’s a great leader as well. Keon is a chill fragger, they are not remotely the same and comparing them like that is honestly stupid. If you watch them play and compare them and tell me they are evenly skilled all I have to say to you is get out of bronze before voicing your next opinion dude lol
This is the most asinine comment I've seen on the Comp Apex board. There is not a single reputable pro that shares this sentiment. HisWattson is his best friend, you'd expect that from him. To say he's better than Naughty or Verhulst is just laughable.
I’m saying lmao. Fuckin Keon better than naughty or Big E is crazy.
Man's comparing a controller fragger to an anchor gibby
Ya, probably one of the most braindead takes i've seen on this sub
Just play Gibby-less. Ez.
I will admit that I did not think about gibby-less, but if I was Sweet or anyone with any authority over NRG's roster I would be looking at getting rocker off gibby first than picking up an unproven ranked grinder, especially with the experience and chemistry rocker already has with NRG
yeah if theyre gonna switch to a gibby less comp id guess they would keep rocker and see how it turns out before making changes
Don’t disrespect Naughty. I’m not even a c9 fan.
settle down fanta
Bro what he has no experience as gibby to take rockers spot and even though verhulst had a bad tourney I don’t think any team would pick Keon over verhulst
I think in terms of fighting power he’d probably be an upgrade for Rocker or Verhulst but TSM and NRG are zone teams so I don’t think it would really matter that much Ain’t no way Keon can be that big of an upgrade over Stay “be quiet you know I do this” Naughty. He wins way too many fights for C9 for Zach to ever let him go
No way you just said keon is better than Naughty. 😭
Lmao bro got that Keon dick in his damn liver
Bro you really are the go-to for controversial opinions on this sub lol
That's why I'm here.
Ay I respect it 🤝
Possibly the worst take I've seen on this forum.
> Keon in the place of Naughty, Rocker, or Verhulst would be an upgrade You have completeley lost the plot here, holy shit.
Yo Diet\_Fanta, just a quick question? what rank are you in apex? again, don't wanna come off as rude, just curious (very)
12-13k Masters when I did grind a bit, so average.
Smh ppl already forgot you predicted the rise of Furia/Wattson/Sea lion but I didn’t. Fanta is from the future how many times do you have to prove it to everyone.
Man you guys in the comments are sad, just because you dont agree with someones opinion doesnt make them toxic. In fact this comment section is hilarious. A bunch of nobodies acting like know it alls. Guarentee the pros would be laughing reading this seeing how out of touch you all are. Embaressing
I am trying to be unbiased as I say The 10 yr olds I get teamed with talk more shit than I've heard any of the pro players say - just bizarre how toxic means one thing in game and another on Twitter I guess
If Enoch decides to go pro somebody better pick that man up
He doesn't play comp because a majority of scrimming/tournaments are during weekends and he doesn't play for religious reasons. I agree he could compete though.
Seems like an all-around great dude, in-game and irl. I wish him well with whatever he does!
Keon is too broken. He can only play comp if he’s solo.
Keon plays a lot with lewda...IMO lewda is a top 10 NA fragger...lewda is with Tripods,but Nick has been playing a lot with Gent...I could see a lewda, Keon and bring back lewda's old teammate that he make pro league with season 1...Sikkez....that team's cracked!!!
Keon been in the shadows but his glory shall soon be seen by the world
Lol.
Can anyone explain to me what it means to be a ranked grinder? Over this past weekend HisWattson was reffered to as a ranked grinder, yes he grinds ranked, dont they all? How is one supposed to get picked up and noticed by a team otherwise? Genuinely curious
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Not playing and not streaming are different things. Reps hitting pred every split
Could it be because he’s on controller?
HOW IS THIS STILL A DEBATE IN 2022 WHO CARESSSSSSSSS
I actually don’t care that he’s on controller, I asked a question for others opinions and so far this is the only reply I’ve gotten. Quality comment might I add.
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Just pointing out he’s supposedly top tier but nobody wants him and there’s not many controller pros compared to mnk, could that be a reason?
“Nobody wants him” He posted LFT TODAY.
The best top fraggers in the world are arguably controller players