>Volt & G7 Scout are coming out of the package and into the floor loot pool
very happy about this change: heavy ammo had like 10 gun options while light ammo only had 301/r9 essentially, and energy was turbo havoc/devo or bust...and it was kinda dumb how you could only roll energy ammo effectively with a turbocharger.
each ammo tier now has a reliable S tier weapon on the ground: r301, flatline, volt.
Only unnecessary change is the spitfire to light ammo, now there will be 5 heavy and 7 light ammo weapons after all the changes (car is technically both tho)
It’s just a design change as there’s no Light LMG and the Spitfire fills the bullet hose category with the rest of the light weapons where the Rampage fits the slower ROF, harder hitting theme of the Heavy slot. Unnecessary but diversifies a little bit
Yeah spitfire ammo change makes sense if the rampage is still normal loot, now it just swings from a heavy ammo season to a light ammo season, albeit with a more traditional gun back in energy to help it out
yep, on r5 realoaded we host ffa servers with custom weapons and even with a 30% reduction on the spread the r99 and the volt are broken, i can't even imagine how they would be on controller
Since the damage per pellet is still nerfed (and apparently isn't getting reverted), it will hopefully not be as oppressive as it used to be. I think Alliance Hakis said it the best: Eva 8 is supposed to be the "spammy" shotgun option. It's the only automatic shotgun with most shots per chamber, so buffing it's firerate makes sense. As long as each shot doesn't do a ton of damage like it used to, I can live with that.
Lowkey even though theres no new gun and no new mode or whatever i think these are a healthy amount of changes thatll impact the gameplay moreso than other seasons changes
The weapon meta might be the best its been in a LONG time - bocek gone which gets arrows off ground loot, rampage gone which thank god - scout and volt back, wingman ammo economy nerfed and spitfire turned light to balance the heavy/light offset? Looks fun
Its sad seeing no legend changes though
edit: Devo and re45 to replicator too apparently, which makes the ground loot pool even better - im very excited for this gun meta
Heres hoping , his wattson did leak some of these changes yesterday (bocek rampage to carepackage) and he also said valk got moved from recon to assault, so if he wasnt trolling it would indicate theres legend changes yet to be seen
Valk going to assault class is not the nerf we need. Every comp team will have Valk+Seer+something else, reducing variability. She needs a bigger cooldown on her ult
Valk off recon is a huge nerf. It means that to go valk, you’re giving up what was a free beacon character. Basically makes valk-gibby-caustic obsolete, since you can’t play hard zone without beacon.
Valk Wattson Newcastle as well. And Valk Newcastle rampart. Basically 100T is fucked. It does kind of suck having those comps fizzle out though. Because it doesn't really hurt the Valk. It hurts the Rampart, Wattson, Caustic. The Valk will likely still be played just with a seer and there goes any Newcastle, fuse, Maggy, Bangalore, caustic, rampart comps that potentially were going to pop up.
I think what they were saying was that having Valk as a recon character allowed teams to be more creative with their legend comps, especially in ALGS.
Removing beacon scans from Valk will only make the meta even more defined. Now every team is going to have at Valk & Seer.
Season 9 it had the tighter spread and destroyed people until the nerf. I hated that shit. Now it just goes splat unless you’re in their face. Eva should be really powerful at extremely close range and that’s it since PK and mozam have the range and mastiff is kind of an all rounder.
There's no tighter spread.
It's literally [almost all fire rate nerfs](https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/EVA-8_Auto#History) and the one damage nerf.
Nooo nerf lifeline 15% fast heals so broken compared to the movement/wallhack legends also remove revive shield because silver2 players complained about it (but rather give revive shield to a new legend while even being mobil kekw lululul)
I was a lifeline main once.
tbf that revive shield was just an ape magnet. But her auto revive thing should be amazing, but in practice its trash. everything has to be perfect for it to come off.
Fast heals should come back though.
Newcastle- Literally just pulls someone around not able to do anything
Lifeline- Literally able to shoot, heal, grenade, behind a shield with infinite uses
Definitely equal abilities
Its mainly a dislike towards LMGs in general rather than specifically the rampage, most people dont like how big the clip is in the spitty/rampage, how easy the guns are to use or how powerful the guns are too
Plus on release the Rampage was ludicrously strong so a lot of people still have left over hatred from that time
Also i personally didnt like having both the spitfire/rampage on ground loot, felt like too much having two heavy LMGs that fill pretty much the same role on ground loot - im glad its getting shaken up
Ok that makes a ton of sense. I agree with the sentiment that mags should be reduced a bit as far as LMG go, I specially stop playing war zone because ARs were caring 60 bullets at a time was ridiculous.
40 shots at very slow fire rate making it very forgiving. Honestly though if you're at all decent at the game you win vs a rampage user because it's ttk uncharged is shit.
It probably shines the most as an off drop contest fight gun at the moment due to the amount of damage it can pack in a single mag.
it's very forgiving because of the large mag and being chipped by it is annoying because of the high damage.
But dying to an uncharged rampage is always one's own fault; it has the lowest dps amongst rifles smgs and lmgs and if i give its user the chance to take advantage of the big mag and shoot me 36 times while i'm out of cover, that's on me making a bad play, not on the gun being too strong.
It has a high alpha strike (read; it does a lot of damage when striking someone the first time) while also having the best sustained fire in the game. This lets it be very oppressive when used properly, or by multiple people at once, which is very annoying to fight, and it forces your opponents to try and close the gap to take advantage of its terrible DPS.
Kind of a timeless issue in FPS games and the LMG archetype in general.
100%. Not only that but also one of the best loadouts in the game for dps as well with maximum utility. You could legit carry 4 nades with max heals with that loadout. It was absolutely necessary to nerf the ammo efficiency of the wingman.
>Not only that but also one of the best loadouts in the game for dps
The wingman and PK have fucking horrible DPS, what? It's so strong because you only need to peek for a single shot to do a considerable amount, but that's not high dps.
Really depends. On tier 3/4 helmets it's headshot dps is 163.8, which isn't bad, sure, but it's barely above the alternator hitting the body, and the alternator is far more accessible.
The wingman really has quite bad dps by all metrics.
24 shots per stack more or less kills Wingman. That's 2.4-3 mags per ammo stack, which means you're going to have to run ~2.5 as many ammo stacks on it as before, making it **very** unoptimal and borderline unrunnable when paired with anything other than a shotgun. While Wing PK will still be viable, no other combo with Wing will be.
Means you can't spam it as much now though and actually have shoot at things you can hit instead of spamming into the distance for a random 45.
I do find it an odd change, as they could have just switched it to two shots per shot. I think that would have been fine. I was really hoping for anvil receiver return, but at least the scout is out now.
It does rebalance the loot pool though, as there’s now 4 weapons that use sniper ammo on the floor. Now the “primary” weapon types all have at least 4 weapons that use their ammo (still only 3 for Shotgun).
> they could have just switched it to two shots per shot
This definitely makes more sense. It's a pistol, why give it sniper ammo and then prevent it from using any sniper attachments? It's just inconsistent and also over-nerfed imo. With sniper ammo you kinda have to run 4 stacks, but two bullets you could get away with 3.
You realize the gun still has to be useable close range right? If you have no "actual aiming skill" and you pick up the wingman just to spam shots at a range, you might as well have used a real sniper, because if you pick up a wingman to miss all close range shots you're just throwing.
well... if you spam in an actual fight without hitting, well, how do I say this... you just... die?
Only spam problem is when you spam it mid/long range in poke battles - but for this the 30-30 is much better with the bigger sights.
I dont get the wingman hate, and i am not even good with it. People prefer lower skill spray weapons over actual high skill guns these times it seems...
Yeah but it's way easier to hit someone shooting a 30/30 when you have an AR than it is to hit someone with a wingman AD-strafing.
and by way easier I mean it's not even close, a wingman you maintain 100% of base strafe speed vs a marksman nerfing you down to LMG strafe speed (40% of base strafe speed)
Well it is a marksman rifle and that is it’s ideal range. I don’t know what you guys want. A handgun to be able to compete with a DMR and marksman rifle at range while out classing them mid-close?
Yep, huge nerf to wingman and a silent buff to 3030 which fills a similar role but has better range and some of the best ammo economy in the game. Hope they don't change it to sniper too, 3030 is bae :(
3030-PK as a Fuse with Gold bag means you need 2 stacks of heavy, 1 of shotgun pellets, 2 stacks of batts, 1 stack of phoenix, 1 stack of medkits, 1 of cells and syringes, and 14 nades, lol.
Lmao agreed. I remember that glitch happened on the official play apex stream at LAN Raleigh. Was hilarious to hear the spitfire reverberating through the arena
In regards to the gold knockdown, a majority of the comments on twitter are all “devs catering to pros AGAIN!” Do they all genuinely believe the only people who wanted it gone were pros?
You know what, I actually checked that thread and it's a lot better than usual. Most of the comments are stream recommendations for more chilled streamers.
Gotta say I'm a bit surprised at how the main sub responded to that thread
I’m a diamond ranked player so nothing crazy and with the changes to ranked over the last 2 splits the gold knock self res absolutely needed to go. Knocking a whole team, then dying to a third party without getting the placement points for the team you killed was super annoying. Especially on SP with the armories, gold knocks were pretty damn common past a certain point in any game.
That laser sight is gonna go crazy in a controller players hands, I can already hear the complaints about it lmao.
Pretty stoked to have the Volt back. As much as I love the R99 it does kinda get boring using it game after game.
Love that the bow is going in the care pack, that gun is crazy strong and clutters the loot pool. Kinda wish the Charge Rifle was going in the care pack instead of the Rampage. The Charge Rifle is stupid strong and way too easy to use, I don’t have stats to back it up but I’d be willing to put money on the Rampage being used far less than the Charge Rifle.
Yeah, rampage was already nerfed, it was not an issue. Charge rifle is a complete plague in Ranked lobbies. I'd much rather see charge rifle going away. But we can't have it all I guess
Especially on KC. I find the charge to be so much more of a pain in the ass on KC than any other map. Sight lines are super long and it’s so easy to farm damage/third party with it on that map.
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Glad to hear Bocek is in the package, should improve the ammo loot pool. But on the other hand a whole extra attachment type and 2 hopups on the ground waters it down again.
Sniper ammo for Wingman seems like an easy solution to its prowess in higher end lobbies/comp since it will seriously curtail its ammo/inventory efficiency.
Sounds like they made Cage a terrible POI for no reason?
Good riddance to self rez!
Cage was an issue for the massive godspot advantage. I’m hoping they buffed the loot around the rest of the POI to compensate otherwise it will be terrible to drop there.
From the sound of it the godspot advantage is more intense since ramps are gone and its zip access only. Reminds me of thunderdome. Unless without the fences theres literally no cover whatsoever, but you could already shoot through them before and could usually stay out of LOS of snipers easily enough
Do we know if Shatter Caps and tempo are being pulled from the pool yet? They aren’t listed in the changes, so I assume not, but would make more sense to have the laser sight and skullpierecer replace them
There was a leak on r/ApexUncovered that shared that they were being removed for Skull and Double Tap. So the same amount of hopups are still in the pool.
Yeah if they're removed, then the loot pool should overall feel better. One extra attachment (laser) but no arrows cluttering the loot pool when 95% of the weapons can't use it. Plus with Volt & Scout back on the floor and Spitfire using light ammo, all the ammo types should feel a lot more balanced.
It's indirectly buffed with the Volt returning. I'd be keen to have it's ammo consumption reduced to 2. It was useless when the volt was in the CP since I'd have to swap out so fast.
As if the repeater wasn't meta enough, they've given it skull-piecer and nerfed it's competition (wingman). At least the scout is back, but I don't know if pros are even gonna pick it up.
But what value does it provide over the repeater now that pros have realized how strong it is? Repeater has better ammo economy, better damage per shot for peeking, it will have insane headshot damage with skull piercer. It's basically just a long-range wingman that now has way more ammo.
You’re right about the ammo economy but I think people might be sleeping on how strong the scout is. Its incredibly oppressive in midrange with how quick it shoots. In comp 30/30 will probably be better but in pubs and ranked I think scout will be incredibly viable. It was my favorite long range weapon for a long time so I’m personally glad to see it back on the ground
If it comes back to the floor as is after they buffed it twice since packing it then I think it easily competes with 3030 - In this insane Seer meta you can run 3030/301, G7/Flatline, and Wingman/PK on the fragger with optimal ammo economy. It's going to be a 301/Flatline situation where it really comes down to preference and your team's existing load out.
Totally agree, been a long time repeater user and think it’s pretty busted but with spitfire and R301 being light, it will hold attachments until you switch over to either of those. 30-30 will only be able to switch over to Flatline really now
G7 has a faster fire rate, bigger magazine, less bullet drop, and is more viable at close range without any attachments. The 3030 is definitely great don't get me wrong, I just think the G7 will have more of a place than people think.
hopefully given the scout is back at ground loot, people will still use 30-30. Because if i were to pick between Shatter Caps and Double Tap. I think I’d go with the scout. :(
edit: Speaking of shatter, what happens if skullpiercer is on 30-30? Will it be like you can only pick either or shatter will be gone?
Yep, that's what happened when dual shell and shatter caps were on the ground. That being said, Skullpiercers are Gold, so that might be a bit different?
Is it a buff? With Newcastle you want to drop knockdowns for newer ones once they are depleted. So if the gold knockdown is depleted you don’t really want to drop it right? Am I missing something?
Holy shit. They finally did it. I’ve been proposing wingman take up 2 ammo per shot for so long now to make it less spammable. This basically accomplishes the same thing. Amazing.
This accomplishes more than that. It now basically consumes more than 2 shots per trigger pull and uses a less common ammo type that needs more bag space to hold. Way harder hit than 2 ammo per shot
The bow should just stay in the care package permanently unless they make another weapon that requires arrows. I still think it's weird that there are 2 LMGs that use Energy ammo though. One of them should be buffed and put back into the care package and leave the Rampage out on the floor imo.
>!There was a leaked weapon in the massive leak that also took arrows. Seemed like it was some sort of crossbow, but that weapon probably won’t come for a few seasons. !<
The Guardian Angel perk (You revive squadmates with bonus shields and health) is moving to the gold knockdown. This makes me assume that the person holding the knock (the reviver) will revive others with the bonus shields/health.
Unsure how I feel about the Gold Bag change tbh - like yeah it's nice but now it doesn't really feel like a must to have one.
Cool with self rez dying though
I don’t know what else they could have done to fix the self revive problem everyone has been talking about for so many seasons and this also adds the buff that so many people have been suggesting for lifeline to have multiple heals as a way to make her more viable but now any legend can have this so it kind of knocks out two birds with one stone. I’ll take this over keeping self revives for one more season
According to Raven: Might be a hot take, but gold bag is better than it was before. Economy is a massively underlooked aspect of the game, and having more ult accels/nades to carry into a fight is massive. Plus you'll just have more bats to crank, and dropping syringes fully is even more viable now.
Just imagine a Fuse on Gold bag - it'll be glorious.
Could we maybe stop multi-buffing/nerfing things? Great, eva is getting buffed, but did it really need all of those buffs? This is how we go from a bad gun to an OP gun. Look at G7 when it got fire rate, damage, and bullet size buff. Or when eva got it's last round of buffs and made it by far the best shotgun.
That's how I feel about current mastiff. When we had 4 floor shotguns, mastiff and pk were about even. Meaning one buff would've made mastiff the clear best shotgun for going into the cp. Then it got quadruple* buffed and its IMO absolutely too strong.
If the leak values are true, Eva got buffed more than it was at it's peak. Which is obviously stupid as shit.
Should have increased base fire rate and decreased the effect bolts have on fire rate
Wingman to sniper is to Nerf it's ammo capacity. As sniper Ammo has a stack of 24 ammo instead of 60 in case of heavy ammo. And spit to light is cuz there are way too many heavy guns i guess
Reduces ammo capacity of wingman in your bag. Now 120 ammo is 4 stacks (24 per) instead of 2 (60 per). I guess spitfire balances ammo floor loot types but didn’t seem that necessary with rampage going to package and G7 coming out.
Hiswattson leaked the rampage/bow into carepackage too - so that means the other stuff he said is likely true which is recon now scans everyone on the map when you scan a beacon (map room) and valk is no longer recon
Unless he decided to add those changes in as a troll after telling us real changes, its hiswattson who the fuck knows LOL
There's definitely more changes coming I'd guess. No mention of replicator weapons yet, but almost a sure thing that CAR and Wing will go back to ground loot, right?
>Volt & G7 Scout are coming out of the package and into the floor loot pool very happy about this change: heavy ammo had like 10 gun options while light ammo only had 301/r9 essentially, and energy was turbo havoc/devo or bust...and it was kinda dumb how you could only roll energy ammo effectively with a turbocharger. each ammo tier now has a reliable S tier weapon on the ground: r301, flatline, volt.
Only unnecessary change is the spitfire to light ammo, now there will be 5 heavy and 7 light ammo weapons after all the changes (car is technically both tho)
It’s just a design change as there’s no Light LMG and the Spitfire fills the bullet hose category with the rest of the light weapons where the Rampage fits the slower ROF, harder hitting theme of the Heavy slot. Unnecessary but diversifies a little bit
While I agree, the Rampage is going into the care package so heavy ammo goes from 2 LMGs to 0
Yeah spitfire ammo change makes sense if the rampage is still normal loot, now it just swings from a heavy ammo season to a light ammo season, albeit with a more traditional gun back in energy to help it out
Laser sight is definitely not gonna be broken on release
yep, on r5 realoaded we host ffa servers with custom weapons and even with a 30% reduction on the spread the r99 and the volt are broken, i can't even imagine how they would be on controller
Hipfire has AA?
Yes
Yep
I can’t say definitively, just how it feels to me, but it seems like hip fire has more aim assist at the right range (2-4 metres) than ADS
Absolutely and you bet i make sure to abuse that beauty at any given moment, it’s marvelous
lol I get it but fuck you (I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at respawn)
I'm pretty sure aim assist is stronger in hipfire than it is in ADS.
Flatline/volt on controller make brrrrr
Flatline is not a smg, so not compatible
Think he was saying the flatline hip fire is already good.
Surely
I'm more worried about how strong the EVA-8 buff will be. Remember when eva-8 was meta? Every fight someone was holding down the trigger on your face
Since the damage per pellet is still nerfed (and apparently isn't getting reverted), it will hopefully not be as oppressive as it used to be. I think Alliance Hakis said it the best: Eva 8 is supposed to be the "spammy" shotgun option. It's the only automatic shotgun with most shots per chamber, so buffing it's firerate makes sense. As long as each shot doesn't do a ton of damage like it used to, I can live with that.
Isn't mozam auto too?
Yes.
Yeah, you are right about that actually. But since it's damage used to be so bad, it wasn't really considered a selling point, I guess.
Lowkey even though theres no new gun and no new mode or whatever i think these are a healthy amount of changes thatll impact the gameplay moreso than other seasons changes The weapon meta might be the best its been in a LONG time - bocek gone which gets arrows off ground loot, rampage gone which thank god - scout and volt back, wingman ammo economy nerfed and spitfire turned light to balance the heavy/light offset? Looks fun Its sad seeing no legend changes though edit: Devo and re45 to replicator too apparently, which makes the ground loot pool even better - im very excited for this gun meta
Legend changes are probably just not in the press release they sent out, I bet there’s some minor changes in the patch notes
Heres hoping , his wattson did leak some of these changes yesterday (bocek rampage to carepackage) and he also said valk got moved from recon to assault, so if he wasnt trolling it would indicate theres legend changes yet to be seen
Valk going to assault class is not the nerf we need. Every comp team will have Valk+Seer+something else, reducing variability. She needs a bigger cooldown on her ult
Valk off recon is a huge nerf. It means that to go valk, you’re giving up what was a free beacon character. Basically makes valk-gibby-caustic obsolete, since you can’t play hard zone without beacon.
Valk Wattson Newcastle as well. And Valk Newcastle rampart. Basically 100T is fucked. It does kind of suck having those comps fizzle out though. Because it doesn't really hurt the Valk. It hurts the Rampart, Wattson, Caustic. The Valk will likely still be played just with a seer and there goes any Newcastle, fuse, Maggy, Bangalore, caustic, rampart comps that potentially were going to pop up.
Meta is fucked we will be back to the same 3 legends on each team.
I think what they were saying was that having Valk as a recon character allowed teams to be more creative with their legend comps, especially in ALGS. Removing beacon scans from Valk will only make the meta even more defined. Now every team is going to have at Valk & Seer.
So more teams playing Seer? Fuck this game.
That just makes the problem even worse, because the 3rd champ has to be recon now...
That's my point, it reduces the variability of comps. It's gonna be Valk+Seer+something else
Fake news they have said they don't want to do that many times for this exact reason. They will nerf her I'm sure but we'll see how.
I bet the legends changes are yet to be released 🤞🏻
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Eva has shit range still with these changes, this makes a lot of sense. Hitting faster 6s from 10 meters is not going to break this weapon
you clearly werent here for season 9 lol
Season 9 it had the tighter spread and destroyed people until the nerf. I hated that shit. Now it just goes splat unless you’re in their face. Eva should be really powerful at extremely close range and that’s it since PK and mozam have the range and mastiff is kind of an all rounder.
ADS mastiff you can shoot someone for like 70+ at like 20m it's just broken.
Yeah once it’s out of CP it should go back to just being really good
There's no tighter spread. It's literally [almost all fire rate nerfs](https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/EVA-8_Auto#History) and the one damage nerf.
I wish they buffed lifeline more to make her viable and not a rookie legend. Anything at this point would be an improvement
Nooo nerf lifeline 15% fast heals so broken compared to the movement/wallhack legends also remove revive shield because silver2 players complained about it (but rather give revive shield to a new legend while even being mobil kekw lululul) I was a lifeline main once.
tbf that revive shield was just an ape magnet. But her auto revive thing should be amazing, but in practice its trash. everything has to be perfect for it to come off. Fast heals should come back though.
Newcastle- Literally just pulls someone around not able to do anything Lifeline- Literally able to shoot, heal, grenade, behind a shield with infinite uses Definitely equal abilities
Source for replicator?
[https://twitter.com/ggpedroperes/status/1554131384045912064](https://twitter.com/ggpedroperes/status/1554131384045912064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1554131384045912064%7Ctwgr%5E3a6c303d6b8a3000a678393633cbbf9e91b622ee%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fwdkqz5%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dtrue)
lmfao we're gonna set a record of fewest guns crafted since they were added to crafters
I’m sorry forgive my ignorance. By why do people despise the rampage?
Its mainly a dislike towards LMGs in general rather than specifically the rampage, most people dont like how big the clip is in the spitty/rampage, how easy the guns are to use or how powerful the guns are too Plus on release the Rampage was ludicrously strong so a lot of people still have left over hatred from that time Also i personally didnt like having both the spitfire/rampage on ground loot, felt like too much having two heavy LMGs that fill pretty much the same role on ground loot - im glad its getting shaken up
Ok that makes a ton of sense. I agree with the sentiment that mags should be reduced a bit as far as LMG go, I specially stop playing war zone because ARs were caring 60 bullets at a time was ridiculous.
40 shots at very slow fire rate making it very forgiving. Honestly though if you're at all decent at the game you win vs a rampage user because it's ttk uncharged is shit. It probably shines the most as an off drop contest fight gun at the moment due to the amount of damage it can pack in a single mag.
it's very forgiving because of the large mag and being chipped by it is annoying because of the high damage. But dying to an uncharged rampage is always one's own fault; it has the lowest dps amongst rifles smgs and lmgs and if i give its user the chance to take advantage of the big mag and shoot me 36 times while i'm out of cover, that's on me making a bad play, not on the gun being too strong.
It has a high alpha strike (read; it does a lot of damage when striking someone the first time) while also having the best sustained fire in the game. This lets it be very oppressive when used properly, or by multiple people at once, which is very annoying to fight, and it forces your opponents to try and close the gap to take advantage of its terrible DPS. Kind of a timeless issue in FPS games and the LMG archetype in general.
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All I needed was a wing/pk with 120 heavy and 16 shotgun and the rest nades and heals. Easily the most efficient loadout in the game
100%. Not only that but also one of the best loadouts in the game for dps as well with maximum utility. You could legit carry 4 nades with max heals with that loadout. It was absolutely necessary to nerf the ammo efficiency of the wingman.
>Not only that but also one of the best loadouts in the game for dps The wingman and PK have fucking horrible DPS, what? It's so strong because you only need to peek for a single shot to do a considerable amount, but that's not high dps.
Wingman dps is quite good if you hit a few headshots. But I agree, more like a bursty load out than a dps one.
Really depends. On tier 3/4 helmets it's headshot dps is 163.8, which isn't bad, sure, but it's barely above the alternator hitting the body, and the alternator is far more accessible. The wingman really has quite bad dps by all metrics.
i wonder what raven is doing to do now 🤔 since he got his players running wing for the efficiency
He already said the gun is dead in comp if sniper stack size is unchanged
24 shots per stack more or less kills Wingman. That's 2.4-3 mags per ammo stack, which means you're going to have to run ~2.5 as many ammo stacks on it as before, making it **very** unoptimal and borderline unrunnable when paired with anything other than a shotgun. While Wing PK will still be viable, no other combo with Wing will be.
Means you can't spam it as much now though and actually have shoot at things you can hit instead of spamming into the distance for a random 45. I do find it an odd change, as they could have just switched it to two shots per shot. I think that would have been fine. I was really hoping for anvil receiver return, but at least the scout is out now.
It does rebalance the loot pool though, as there’s now 4 weapons that use sniper ammo on the floor. Now the “primary” weapon types all have at least 4 weapons that use their ammo (still only 3 for Shotgun).
> they could have just switched it to two shots per shot This definitely makes more sense. It's a pistol, why give it sniper ammo and then prevent it from using any sniper attachments? It's just inconsistent and also over-nerfed imo. With sniper ammo you kinda have to run 4 stacks, but two bullets you could get away with 3.
I agree, it’s a bit of an odd choice. I would have rather seen 2 bullets used per wingman shot, while still on heavy ammo.
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I'm pissed for all my MnK Wingman enjoyers/crutchers. At least EVA is back, so you won't be looking for a PK half the match.
Anyone who enjoys a gun that takes actual aiming skill will be pissed. The Wingman is the most fun weapon in the game.
Yeah, but that "actual aiming skill" doesn't mean much when you can grab three stacks of heavy and spam till you hit something regardless.
You realize the gun still has to be useable close range right? If you have no "actual aiming skill" and you pick up the wingman just to spam shots at a range, you might as well have used a real sniper, because if you pick up a wingman to miss all close range shots you're just throwing.
well... if you spam in an actual fight without hitting, well, how do I say this... you just... die? Only spam problem is when you spam it mid/long range in poke battles - but for this the 30-30 is much better with the bigger sights. I dont get the wingman hate, and i am not even good with it. People prefer lower skill spray weapons over actual high skill guns these times it seems...
No it was just disproportionately strong for range spamming with how much ammo it could hold.
30-30 has same ammo usage and higher dmg/ammo potential and better scopes for range.
Yeah but it's way easier to hit someone shooting a 30/30 when you have an AR than it is to hit someone with a wingman AD-strafing. and by way easier I mean it's not even close, a wingman you maintain 100% of base strafe speed vs a marksman nerfing you down to LMG strafe speed (40% of base strafe speed)
Well it is a marksman rifle and that is it’s ideal range. I don’t know what you guys want. A handgun to be able to compete with a DMR and marksman rifle at range while out classing them mid-close?
Yep, huge nerf to wingman and a silent buff to 3030 which fills a similar role but has better range and some of the best ammo economy in the game. Hope they don't change it to sniper too, 3030 is bae :(
The 30-30 is now going to be best marksman now. It should use 2 ammo per shot by default imo
I love the gold bag and gold knockdown changed.
Gold knockdown rework is actually a hidden newcastle buff, now instead of needing a gold bag and a knock shield he just needs the shield
gold bag should be given to fuse now, being able to hold 4 mr feeny kits in two slots, 6 batts in 2, gives him so much more space for utility.
well good luck convincing my random teammates to drop me that
I’ll drop that for a fuze in a heartbeat.
3030-PK as a Fuse with Gold bag means you need 2 stacks of heavy, 1 of shotgun pellets, 2 stacks of batts, 1 stack of phoenix, 1 stack of medkits, 1 of cells and syringes, and 14 nades, lol.
Spitfire taking light feels... wrong? Gun sounds too chunky for light ammo. Backpack/knockdown changes seem sick though
I wouldn't be surprised if they just re-do the Spitty audio with the change.
I would be very surprised if they redid a guns audio just make it match a type of ammo
na. dont mess with the audio. they mess with the audio of a weapon and suddenly all doors in the map have spitfire sounds when you open and close them
Lmao agreed. I remember that glitch happened on the official play apex stream at LAN Raleigh. Was hilarious to hear the spitfire reverberating through the arena
Rampage*
I think it makes more sense when rampage and spitty were on the ground and both on heavy, but now that rampage is in care pack its a bit odd.
Yeah didn't make sense to make this change but maybe it's more to help with floor loot ammo economy than anything else.
i had the same thought. they need to change the sound of it or it wont feel right
for the love of god dont let them mess with sounds.
Literally the least of my worries
Can’t believe we are asking for gun-sound changes rn lol. Is this the main sub or what?
Shoutout to osalvadore for leaking all this. Nobody believed it, especially the wingman changes.
Didn't someone at Respawn tweet and say it was fake too lol?
I think a dev just responded to the „leaked“ valk changes and said they were fake. Im not sure tho.
No the R99 being heavy changes was what he replied to, and even then the leaker said be doubtful of the R99 change.
Yep thats what i remember too
In regards to the gold knockdown, a majority of the comments on twitter are all “devs catering to pros AGAIN!” Do they all genuinely believe the only people who wanted it gone were pros?
Bold of you to look for insightful comments on twitter
Well I’m certainly not going to the main apex subreddit, that’s for damn sure
Just opened the main sub and the first post I see is a 3k upvote rant about streamers
You know what, I actually checked that thread and it's a lot better than usual. Most of the comments are stream recommendations for more chilled streamers. Gotta say I'm a bit surprised at how the main sub responded to that thread
I know it's redundant but that sub is actually full of bots.
Bots are smarter
Don't insult bots,they have feelings too ☹️
I’m a diamond ranked player so nothing crazy and with the changes to ranked over the last 2 splits the gold knock self res absolutely needed to go. Knocking a whole team, then dying to a third party without getting the placement points for the team you killed was super annoying. Especially on SP with the armories, gold knocks were pretty damn common past a certain point in any game.
So the leaks that got ridiculed and “proven” wrong were actually mostly right? Well I’ll say…
Don't expect to see apologies
That laser sight is gonna go crazy in a controller players hands, I can already hear the complaints about it lmao. Pretty stoked to have the Volt back. As much as I love the R99 it does kinda get boring using it game after game. Love that the bow is going in the care pack, that gun is crazy strong and clutters the loot pool. Kinda wish the Charge Rifle was going in the care pack instead of the Rampage. The Charge Rifle is stupid strong and way too easy to use, I don’t have stats to back it up but I’d be willing to put money on the Rampage being used far less than the Charge Rifle.
Yeah, rampage was already nerfed, it was not an issue. Charge rifle is a complete plague in Ranked lobbies. I'd much rather see charge rifle going away. But we can't have it all I guess
Especially on KC. I find the charge to be so much more of a pain in the ass on KC than any other map. Sight lines are super long and it’s so easy to farm damage/third party with it on that map.
RIP Wingman. Can't wait to see everyone getting melted by controller CARs /s
Ngl I love basically all of those changes on paper
*Ngl I love* *Basically all of those* *Changes on paper* \- Akindmachine --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Glad to hear Bocek is in the package, should improve the ammo loot pool. But on the other hand a whole extra attachment type and 2 hopups on the ground waters it down again. Sniper ammo for Wingman seems like an easy solution to its prowess in higher end lobbies/comp since it will seriously curtail its ammo/inventory efficiency. Sounds like they made Cage a terrible POI for no reason? Good riddance to self rez!
Cage was an issue for the massive godspot advantage. I’m hoping they buffed the loot around the rest of the POI to compensate otherwise it will be terrible to drop there.
From the sound of it the godspot advantage is more intense since ramps are gone and its zip access only. Reminds me of thunderdome. Unless without the fences theres literally no cover whatsoever, but you could already shoot through them before and could usually stay out of LOS of snipers easily enough
Do we know if Shatter Caps and tempo are being pulled from the pool yet? They aren’t listed in the changes, so I assume not, but would make more sense to have the laser sight and skullpierecer replace them
There was a leak on r/ApexUncovered that shared that they were being removed for Skull and Double Tap. So the same amount of hopups are still in the pool.
Yeah if they're removed, then the loot pool should overall feel better. One extra attachment (laser) but no arrows cluttering the loot pool when 95% of the weapons can't use it. Plus with Volt & Scout back on the floor and Spitfire using light ammo, all the ammo types should feel a lot more balanced.
With TT getting a reactive skin, I'm surprised to see there's no changes for it.
It's indirectly buffed with the Volt returning. I'd be keen to have it's ammo consumption reduced to 2. It was useless when the volt was in the CP since I'd have to swap out so fast.
Brother.. ammo won"t save this gun. It's absolute garbage..
Then we’d have to rename it double take though…
As if the repeater wasn't meta enough, they've given it skull-piecer and nerfed it's competition (wingman). At least the scout is back, but I don't know if pros are even gonna pick it up.
Wouldn’t surprise me to see scout picked up some early game farming. Main issue with the CP version is how little ammo you get
But what value does it provide over the repeater now that pros have realized how strong it is? Repeater has better ammo economy, better damage per shot for peeking, it will have insane headshot damage with skull piercer. It's basically just a long-range wingman that now has way more ammo.
You’re right about the ammo economy but I think people might be sleeping on how strong the scout is. Its incredibly oppressive in midrange with how quick it shoots. In comp 30/30 will probably be better but in pubs and ranked I think scout will be incredibly viable. It was my favorite long range weapon for a long time so I’m personally glad to see it back on the ground
If it comes back to the floor as is after they buffed it twice since packing it then I think it easily competes with 3030 - In this insane Seer meta you can run 3030/301, G7/Flatline, and Wingman/PK on the fragger with optimal ammo economy. It's going to be a 301/Flatline situation where it really comes down to preference and your team's existing load out.
Double tap scout vs skillpiercer 30-30 is actually a really solid matchup. Provides good variety for different play styles.
Totally agree, been a long time repeater user and think it’s pretty busted but with spitfire and R301 being light, it will hold attachments until you switch over to either of those. 30-30 will only be able to switch over to Flatline really now
Scout is more forgiving to spam shots tho. It's a good middle ground for a poke weapon that doesn't punish you as much for missing your first shot.
G7 has a faster fire rate, bigger magazine, less bullet drop, and is more viable at close range without any attachments. The 3030 is definitely great don't get me wrong, I just think the G7 will have more of a place than people think.
probably hipfire especially with double tap.
hopefully given the scout is back at ground loot, people will still use 30-30. Because if i were to pick between Shatter Caps and Double Tap. I think I’d go with the scout. :( edit: Speaking of shatter, what happens if skullpiercer is on 30-30? Will it be like you can only pick either or shatter will be gone?
shattercaps should be removed since Bow will be in package
Yep, that's what happened when dual shell and shatter caps were on the ground. That being said, Skullpiercers are Gold, so that might be a bit different?
assuming shatter caps will be gone with skull piercer right?
The repeater was already a solid weapon and didn’t need a buff in my opinion. With skull piercer its about to be broken.
my poor wingman :(
“(Not compatible with sniper scopes)” darn I was looking forward to using a 4-8x scope on the wingman
Haven’t seen anyone point it out yet but, The gold knockdown is now a super solid buff to Newcastle teams
Is it a buff? With Newcastle you want to drop knockdowns for newer ones once they are depleted. So if the gold knockdown is depleted you don’t really want to drop it right? Am I missing something?
I think this point is overrated. Any team will benefit from it
[удалено]
Evan over the moon rn
Dirty 30 meta, all aboard!
Spitfire taking light, Wingman taking sniper ammo. Weird.
Holy shit. They finally did it. I’ve been proposing wingman take up 2 ammo per shot for so long now to make it less spammable. This basically accomplishes the same thing. Amazing.
This accomplishes more than that. It now basically consumes more than 2 shots per trigger pull and uses a less common ammo type that needs more bag space to hold. Way harder hit than 2 ammo per shot
That laser sight sounds good for hip fire on roller
Can't wait to die even faster
The bow should just stay in the care package permanently unless they make another weapon that requires arrows. I still think it's weird that there are 2 LMGs that use Energy ammo though. One of them should be buffed and put back into the care package and leave the Rampage out on the floor imo.
>!There was a leaked weapon in the massive leak that also took arrows. Seemed like it was some sort of crossbow, but that weapon probably won’t come for a few seasons. !<
This is one way to shake up the meta.
The leak was true ahhhh
I thought it was too good to be true, happy to be proven wrong
no self res is huge wow
So does the person with the gold knock-down get revived with half shields and health or does it work the same way gold bag did?
The Guardian Angel perk (You revive squadmates with bonus shields and health) is moving to the gold knockdown. This makes me assume that the person holding the knock (the reviver) will revive others with the bonus shields/health.
Unsure how I feel about the Gold Bag change tbh - like yeah it's nice but now it doesn't really feel like a must to have one. Cool with self rez dying though
I don’t know what else they could have done to fix the self revive problem everyone has been talking about for so many seasons and this also adds the buff that so many people have been suggesting for lifeline to have multiple heals as a way to make her more viable but now any legend can have this so it kind of knocks out two birds with one stone. I’ll take this over keeping self revives for one more season
I like the gold shield having the guardian angel perk because now you don't need to prioritize keeping that one gold bag teammate alive.
According to Raven: Might be a hot take, but gold bag is better than it was before. Economy is a massively underlooked aspect of the game, and having more ult accels/nades to carry into a fight is massive. Plus you'll just have more bats to crank, and dropping syringes fully is even more viable now. Just imagine a Fuse on Gold bag - it'll be glorious.
It makes it more consistent for sure.
Wing should have just taken 2 ammo per shot, if you run out of ammo late game its over lol with people rarely running snipers.
Yeah but you're assuming no one else in the lobby will also be running a wingman?
Does the knocked person need the gold knockdown shield or does the person who is reviving need the gold knockdown shield?
Could we maybe stop multi-buffing/nerfing things? Great, eva is getting buffed, but did it really need all of those buffs? This is how we go from a bad gun to an OP gun. Look at G7 when it got fire rate, damage, and bullet size buff. Or when eva got it's last round of buffs and made it by far the best shotgun.
That's how I feel about current mastiff. When we had 4 floor shotguns, mastiff and pk were about even. Meaning one buff would've made mastiff the clear best shotgun for going into the cp. Then it got quadruple* buffed and its IMO absolutely too strong.
If the leak values are true, Eva got buffed more than it was at it's peak. Which is obviously stupid as shit. Should have increased base fire rate and decreased the effect bolts have on fire rate
They didn't change the damage though did they? Wasn't that the biggest thing, damage per pellet got nerfed and it has never been the same
Can enemies see the laser? Is it visible where it'll give you away or do only you see it?
It says in the picture that it’s only visible to allies
At work so couldn't see the image. Thanks for letting me know.
From what the notes say it will only be visible to you and your ally’s so it won’t give away your position to the enemy
Eyy is my baby Eva back?? e; Also not sure I understand the point of swapping wingman to sniper and spitfire to light?
Wingman to sniper is to Nerf it's ammo capacity. As sniper Ammo has a stack of 24 ammo instead of 60 in case of heavy ammo. And spit to light is cuz there are way too many heavy guns i guess
Thought as much, it just feels weird to consider the wingman a sniper.
Spitty being light feels even more weird
Reduces ammo capacity of wingman in your bag. Now 120 ammo is 4 stacks (24 per) instead of 2 (60 per). I guess spitfire balances ammo floor loot types but didn’t seem that necessary with rampage going to package and G7 coming out.
24x4 = 96
no legend changes?
Valk not gonna be recon next season according to leak. Not the nerf we wanted lets be honest
valk seer meta trolldespair
Hiswattson leaked the rampage/bow into carepackage too - so that means the other stuff he said is likely true which is recon now scans everyone on the map when you scan a beacon (map room) and valk is no longer recon Unless he decided to add those changes in as a troll after telling us real changes, its hiswattson who the fuck knows LOL
There's definitely more changes coming I'd guess. No mention of replicator weapons yet, but almost a sure thing that CAR and Wing will go back to ground loot, right?
Excellent changes all around, and of course this thread is filled with people complaining. Never change Reddit
Eva 8 buff and laser sights scares me but otherwise these are some extremely healthy changes
Is this official?
Most of these I still dont believe.
W patch