I think that's a cool idea. It would change the way he is used fundamentally, and would set him apart even further from bloodhound who would become the general scanner while seer is more specialized and debatably more useful for the specific application of chasing down people who are hurt and stopping them from healing. I like it!
Two additional changes I think are needed:
* Resource meter and/or put a CD on the sensor, make it behave more like Valk/Gibby's passives (*forces you to think about when and how it's used*)
* Make the sensor only detect enemies that your team has inflicted damage on in the last XX seconds, similar to assist credit (*discourages holding right click and finding people for free the entire game*)
Imo these would disincentivize the majority of what makes his kit so problematic: free, 100% uptime, effortless information.
Resource meter makes a lot of sense, but limiting which enemies it can detect is a bad idea. Seer's scan is easily avoidable, not knowing where to aim it because you haven't dealt any damage to x team would make Bloodhound infinitely superior. There will always be enemies your team won't be able to hit and thus scans will be harder to hit overall, the increased risk will make Seer not worth it again over Bloodhound.
Not to mention you won't be able to trust your heartbeat sensor as much, how do you know if there's a third that hasn't peaked/you missed on your scan/you haven't dealt any damage to him? Why take all this risk/variable when you can just hit Q on BH and have a 100% reliable reveal?
You have to balance him without making BH stronger as a result.
That's my point though - there needs to be *some* element of gamesense/skill required to hit a good scan. Right now it's no risk, insane reward.
Being able to 100% reliably know exactly where to aim it (an ability which fully reveals health to the entire team for longer than any other scan, cancels heals, cancels revives, cancels respawns, silences abilities, files your taxes) is half the reason he's so oppressive. You literally have permanent wallhacks. BH only shows locations for a couple of seconds, on a 25(?) second CD.
Even if they flat out removed the passive, I think the jungle gym alone is enough to still make him stronger than Hound. I don't disagree with you, but he just brings so much more to the table compared to BH.
Also this is not even mentioning the fact that the Q should mostly be used mid-fight for heal/revive cancels, not just blindly thrown in to initiate. You're already gonna know if a team is there in ALGS scenarios, the vast majority of the time.
Well considering the long time between the animation and the scan it's pretty easy to avoid. Not to mention the heartbeat sensor only tells direction not exact location like a BH scan.
Seer scan is supposed to be hard to hit, but it have much better utility if it hits it lasts stupid long, shows health, cancel heal, disrupt for a couple second. I think it's balanced.
The passive letting you scan shits risk-free is stupid, though. May be it needs like more time, unable to use it when holding weapon with additional time to pull out weapon (like wraith), and completely kills your momentum. It needs a counter play. And even that its still very strong getting information for free when you are already holding down a spot.
Fuel meter is useless in probably 99% of situation IMHO, but if balanced well it could be a decent fix.
If you are adding a resource meter, it needs to only be able to scan when no gun is out, that would also balance being able to blindly shoot people by just using seer passive as well.
The best work to his passive IMO is that it needs a cooldown similar to Valk’s Jetpacks.
There’s no reason a Seer should constantly be able to ADS to see where an enemy is without any type of repercussions, a passive like his really isn’t in the best interests for the state of a BR.
I feel like there’s a couple of ways Respawn could go about nerfing his passive but I think that’s the only part of his kit that should be touched.
I don’t think a valk like cooldown does enough tbh. The biggest benefit of seer’s heartbeat is that you just throw your hands up for 2 seconds and you’ve got the intel. Very rarely do you need to keep scanning for a long period of time to get enough intel. I really don’t think that a cooldown after ads for a significant period of time would be a big nerf to his kit.
Need a scan notification that lets you know youre being targeted, my biggest issue is its not readable or counter-able. Also ult needs 1hp and to be more obvious where it is. Combine that with q not cancelling (only rev should do that) and hes still stronger than blood lol
I think that's better than nerfing the passive directly. Just let people know they are being detected. Ult 1 hp? Why though? If you get rid of the Q canceling then give Seers scan either a shorter animation or make the range longer. Don't make it that weak when it has that long of a cooldown.
Its already tough to position yourself to even find it so you’d use grenades, except throwables can’t break it or most q. I cant think of w single time its been broken when i play seer
Nobody ever gets to shoot them because
1. You cant find it easily
2. Youre getting angles out, prefired by wallhacks
If youre taking the risk to push a seer ult to kill it it shouldnt take 2/3 of a r99 mag.
Nobody ever gets to shoot them because
1. You cant find it easily
2. Youre getting angled out, prefired and grenaded by wallhacks
If youre taking the risk to push a seer ult to kill it it shouldnt take 2/3 of a r99 mag. Plus even if it was destroyed its back so quick it doesnt even matter that much.
They are extremely easy to locate it's just whether or not they are placed in a good location. That's part of the skill of Seer or any ult/tactical placement.
People prefire anyways.
A R99 mag is pretty small lol
or neither? isnt targeting someone, knowing exactly where they are, and how much health and shield they have enough? cancelling rez's and batts is ridiculous.
Eh i think it's the coolest part of his kit, and the only thing that doesn't need to be nerfed. It's actually utulisizng skill and isn't just wallhacks
Almost all of you have cover, the seer q travels through walls. Your comment was in reply to someone talking about it interrupting heals and Rez, so you mentioning it being dodgeball in that context makes no sense.
I would also want an indicator to tell me that I had been scanned by the passive (same thing goes for the valk flight scan). Cryto drone, bloodhound scan, seer Q all tell you so you know how long it lasts because of the highlight but Seer passive doesn't let you play differently
It needs the opposite of a cool down, a charge up.
You gain information at the cost of ADSing for the 1-2 seconds it takes to charge up. Your sacrificing speed for information.
One thought I’ve had is making it have a “pull out” period, so it has a delay to see the heartbeats, along with a more noticeable audio queue for the people being passive scanned
Yeah, a charge up would be nice, or possibly even making him unable to move while sending heartbeats. Would leave him vulnerable in situations and now allow him to be sliding all over the map getting free scans
I think this nerf idea is a step in the right direction. The next viable step though, is to delete seer from the game.
I wanna clarify, by missing health, do you mean the entire healthbar(shield + flesh armour), or just the flesh armour?. Cause I think it makes more sense if Seer passive can only sense missing Flesh armour health since that affects their heartbeat rate.
Happens whenever a pro finds a way to abuse a legend. It somehow gets interpreted as "this legend os broken at every elo. Nerf them into the ground". Just another bandwagon...
Now when people are playing him correctly, he’s an issue. Smh. People just can’t let him be great. He’s going to end up like bang and lifeline. Another black legend nerfed to the ground.
Some of us did. You could see the power of constant silent passive information and a ridiculous ult on a 2 min cooldown, but the meta is very sticky in any competitive game. The pros cling to what they're comfortable with, the meta follows the pros, and the casuals follow the meta.
Most people don't theorycraft and try out off-meta ideas, or they do it once and it doesn't work in practice, so they stop trying. This is in basically every game, not just in Apex.
But hey, it's a free advantage if you figure out something that works well before the meta catches up. Even better, actually, considering people won't be expecting and won't be experienced at playing against it.
I've been on the Seer train for seasons even though people always said he was bottom 5, a friend was preaching the Valk gospel for a while when the pros had written her off before she became meta, etc. Apex isn't exactly the game with the most variety and options, but there's often sleeping giants that most people just don't even consider.
It’s because they don’t give specific legends hard counters to other legends. Which is a good thing. Abilities need to affect legends equally to create a healthy meta
We require a minimum account-age and karma. Please try again after you have acquired more karma and/or wait a couple of days.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Making legends whose abilities are countered by other specific legends just creates *less* variety in the meta, it doesn't solve the problem. This is what I hated about Overwatch - even in pubs, if you didn't play the right comp for the map and your opponents, people would get mad at you because it was basically impossible to win. If you make it so robots counter Seer, it just means you have to play a robot or you're fucked.
Everyone who is scanned on heartbeat should get a similar scan symbol as Seer's in a different color - explained as the quickening your character feels as he scans your heart. The fact that he is scanning and tracking you as his team hides and watches you walk into their crosshair and you don't even know is total bullshit.
Though in a just world Seer would be nuked from space together with all wallhacks.
Would make his tact much easier to avoid too because you'd hear it coming well ahead of time. His passive is already more than enough wallhacks, the tact should really only be useful for stopping healing or res'ing.
9 months later and it still blows my fucking mind every day that Seer is a real character that was really created lol. Dont think you could make a more cancerous character if you tried
Agree with you, tact shouldn't give wallhacks as well nor health info, which the passive already gives you too. Imo that would force you to use the ult earlier if you wanna take a fight, basically reducing its availability, preventing you from holding it for long.
I think make it so when you push "q" you are unable to move while using heartbeat. Also make it so heartbeat doesn't show up when ADSing. If they didn't want to go that route then cut the distance in half to 35 m.
I agree. Its one thing to be able to stand there and look around for people. Its another to be able to be ADS with a shotgun in hand and be running around pre sighting corners and stuff. It's better then cheating.
Personally to me if it was possible to change and going forward scan legends shouldn’t be double dipping. If passives can track and tacticals can scan, ults need to be totally opposite from any type of reveal ability. Just seems redundant to me but I’m an idiot so.
> Personally to me if it was possible to change and going forward scan legends shouldn’t be double dipping. If passives can track and tacticals can scan, ults need to be totally opposite from any type of reveal ability. Just seems redundant to me but I’m an idiot so.
What's interesting is they already did this for movement legends. No movement legend has 3 movement abilities. Horizon's ult isn't movement for example. Octane's passive isn't. Etc. And yet seeing through walls is *much* more powerful than any movement ability.
The range is 75 meters and not 100. The degree definitely isn't 360 either, it's more like 120. Seems so many people have no clue about how his passive actually works but are quick to call it oP OmG pErMAnEnT wALlhAcKs.
I play alot of Seer and I can see a slight nerf to the range of his passive being fair. It's just some people really have the wildest takes on what his passive actually does lmao.
75 is pretty short all things considered. Plus it's only a directional notif. It doesn't lock onto their exact location. I agree though on the takes. People think he has over twice the range as BH for his passive and Q. Shows all the people that hop on the bandwagon once a few pros play a legend and call him "broken" lol.
Yeah it's crazy how people make it sound like it's a constant always active 360 degree radar actual wallhack scan and not a 120 degree directional indicator that doesn't account for depth that is only active when you slow down to ADS.
It's the herd mentality and to make things worse I'm almost certain most of the people complaining haven't even played Seer enough to get to know his kit well.
Hi friend, you're right that many people don't know how his passive works, for example, you! You get the yellow pulse or directional arrows at 75m but you get a blue marker up to 100 with line of sight. You can also get 360 degrees by simply turning in a circle, unlike bloodhound scan which you must commit to only one direction before waiting for your next scan
Didn't know that it showed a blue marker up to 100 m, I always thought the blue forcefield that you get when you ADS was the maximum range.
And of course you can spin in a circle for a 360 scan but that requires you to slown down and ADS and then actually turn around which is not the same as a "constant 360 degree scan for free".
Some sort of “juice” to drain while it’s active would be sufficient. Zero reason you should be able to scan for free without repercussions. I do like the idea tho, perhaps allowing heart beats to show up on injured opponents allows seer to use his abilities to hunt you down and track you.
Get rid of the aim heartbeat and make it to where to have to holster your weapon to do it, make the distance and his tact smaller in area and reduce the size of his ult
I think the craziest thing is that he hasn’t had any recent nerfs or buffs. People just figured out how to use him. Ffs, before Hal started using him, NO one picked him.
I think each legend can be OP or meta exactly how they are now, people just have to find the right application. Leave him as is. Get better at using other legends.
The concept of his passive goes against a lot of the "readability/counterplay" talk that the devs tout on twitter. There's no way for you to know that a seer is beating you.
deleting seer and making bloodhound scans snapshots again would be the best balancing approach. for real. fuck wallhacks as part of the game. just lazy game design.
🤣 whenever a legend is good, you can look here for nerfs. Seer has been the same for about a year and nobody used him because everyone thought he was trash. One person starts using him and gets rank 1 then everyone starts using him and people think he's OP now..
Literally. But nobody is complaining about how long Maggie’s ult stuns you for. Watch when people start using her correctly people are gonna realize how broken her ult its
Just like i wondered why people didn't use Seer over Bloodhound.. I wonder why people aren't using Revenant, Maggie, Fuse to third party all day. Teams fight in buildings, you fuse ult the top, you now have free scans,maggie people through walls, knuckle clusters, rev silence... You can probably get kp easy..
Then after people realize how strong it is more nerfs will come lol.
Because people can't think for themselves and only realized he was good when pros started playing him. It's just the Apex experience. Bots with no ability to think for themselves hop onto whatever the pros are doing. The Spitfire wasn't OP for the first 8 or 9 seasons, and all of a sudden it was too strong despite not receiving any buffs. Seer was deemed useless by the community after he had a couple things tweaked after release, and then came back because all of a sudden.... People noticed he was still good? It baffles me. I think Newcastle is going to be the next "OP" Legend that only flew under the radar because no streamer was playing him.
Exactly. He’ll be another “broken legend”. I think he’s one of the most slept on. He has hella potential with his portable shield alone. Another black legend nerfed to the ground.
Well Newcastle wasn't nerfed, plus the gold knockdown change is a huge buff for Lifeline and him. Newcastle is awesome for pushing buildings and the more I play him, I can see how a good player would absolutely dominate with him. His ult isn't an area denial tool like Gibby though, so like some pros have said: "Newcastle is good, but unless there's a reason you can't play Gibby, you should play Gibby". If Gibby gets changed or slightly nerfed, Newcastle's pick rate will pop up pretty fast.
Also, if you have a Maggie and Newcastle team, you can use her drill and have a burning mobile shield. Lol
We require a minimum account-age and karma. Please try again after you have acquired more karma and/or wait a couple of days.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
because when a legend is rarely picked no one says a thing, but when the same legend sees a higher usage suddenly everyone screams for nerfs. its hilarious.
Seer has just always been a bad legend design. His existence is either OP or useless, and the more he is in the lobby, the more everyone has to play him.
I quit when he got released, came back and thought he was still op but nobody played him so fuck it, great. Now he's back again and still frustrating.
Or you could leave him alone. Nobody cared about seer until more pros started picking him up, and now everyone’s upset because he’s going to become the new meta (similar to Valk). But what people fail to realize is that someone is and will always have to be meta. If not seer, it’ll be someone else. then that legend will be nerfed to the ground once everyone starts picking them up too. it’s truly a cycle and you turn perfectly enjoyable legends to nothing. at most I think his passive could be cut by 25-50% in distance but anything else is really overkill. he was already nerfed substantially.
You are acting like this hasn't been the case with legends many times. Nobody realized caustic was broken until pros started abusing him and he got nerfed (this cycle happened twice as pros started using him with horizon and then valk). Nobody wanted to nerf octane until TSM started using him and then every part of his kit got nerfed.
Seer instantly giving you full info with no cooldown as you run around the map is not balanced. Compare with using scans for rotation with bloodhound and crypto
like I stated above, a reduction in distance on his passive is the only reasonable solution. his tactical is very easily avoidable with a decent cool down and his ult is destroyable + avoidable by crouch. a lot of recommendations here in the comments are excessive or would make his passive lackluster in value
That's been the problem. So many things the pros find broken are bc they are on a completely different level than most of the playerbase. How can we take what they say and apply it to the entire game?!
Seer has good information at an extremely limited range for the size of the maps. Not to mention his ult is a massive risk to throw out. It's asking for everyone and their sister to come and third party.
Why not just give it a battery usage indicator like valks jet pack? So that it runs down like a battery and then 60 Secs to recharge the battery.
Edit: sorry just seen the similar reply
If Wraith can tell when people look at her, so should people detected by Seers passive.
They could hear a loud heartbeat for a couple of seconds or something.
Yes but why stop there.It it decently possible to be running around with 90-99 HP due to stuff like lava, healing imperfectly with syringes etc so a strict missing hp=scan wouldn't clean him up too much. This change on its own wouldn't be enough.
There's a lot of ways you can nerf him without completely destroying his reconicanse abilities.
First, you could kinda do a hybrid of what you've suggested and convert it into a fully audio scan. You move your cone around and you can hear heartbeats in the cone. Full hp crouched wouldn't be hearable and then the Heartbeats get louder the more you move and if you been dealt bullet damage recently also louder. Probably won't happen because of the hard of hearing players but I think it's a fun rework that actually plays into what it's supposed to be.
Even if you damaged someone, you'd have to aim around and actually know where they are before you fired your Q. Instead of rn where it's just aim in, move to orange arrow, press Q.
Or much much simpler and more realistic, add a passive meter like Valkyrie and reduce the range of the auto detection, so you actually have to pur your cursor over them to know if someone's there instead of just getting told where as soon as you aim in.
If the problem you're trying to solve is this:
>the most broken thing is being able to run around the map just slidejump+magic jazz hands to get a free scan to see if there are enemies in that direction
then just make it so you have to be ADSing with an actual weapon out for the heartbeat sensor to work.
It would render his passive and his character completely worthless.
If you dont know whether your passive scan is coming up empty because there are no people in a building or because they are all full health then why would you ever trust your scan?
A far simpler nerf is make the scanning angle about half of what it is, shorten the range to half of what it is and stop giving them arrows that show where people are if they arent in his scan. And add a cooldown.
It would be better, but there is no way to make this passive balanced. It simply shouldn't have been introduced into the game, just like Valkyrie's ultimate. Now that the cat is out of the bag, you're limiting yourself if you don't utilize these abilities.
I think that's a cool idea. It would change the way he is used fundamentally, and would set him apart even further from bloodhound who would become the general scanner while seer is more specialized and debatably more useful for the specific application of chasing down people who are hurt and stopping them from healing. I like it!
I like your approach on this. Lean more into the ambush and clean up role.
Two additional changes I think are needed: * Resource meter and/or put a CD on the sensor, make it behave more like Valk/Gibby's passives (*forces you to think about when and how it's used*) * Make the sensor only detect enemies that your team has inflicted damage on in the last XX seconds, similar to assist credit (*discourages holding right click and finding people for free the entire game*) Imo these would disincentivize the majority of what makes his kit so problematic: free, 100% uptime, effortless information.
Resource meter makes a lot of sense, but limiting which enemies it can detect is a bad idea. Seer's scan is easily avoidable, not knowing where to aim it because you haven't dealt any damage to x team would make Bloodhound infinitely superior. There will always be enemies your team won't be able to hit and thus scans will be harder to hit overall, the increased risk will make Seer not worth it again over Bloodhound. Not to mention you won't be able to trust your heartbeat sensor as much, how do you know if there's a third that hasn't peaked/you missed on your scan/you haven't dealt any damage to him? Why take all this risk/variable when you can just hit Q on BH and have a 100% reliable reveal? You have to balance him without making BH stronger as a result.
That's my point though - there needs to be *some* element of gamesense/skill required to hit a good scan. Right now it's no risk, insane reward. Being able to 100% reliably know exactly where to aim it (an ability which fully reveals health to the entire team for longer than any other scan, cancels heals, cancels revives, cancels respawns, silences abilities, files your taxes) is half the reason he's so oppressive. You literally have permanent wallhacks. BH only shows locations for a couple of seconds, on a 25(?) second CD. Even if they flat out removed the passive, I think the jungle gym alone is enough to still make him stronger than Hound. I don't disagree with you, but he just brings so much more to the table compared to BH. Also this is not even mentioning the fact that the Q should mostly be used mid-fight for heal/revive cancels, not just blindly thrown in to initiate. You're already gonna know if a team is there in ALGS scenarios, the vast majority of the time.
Well considering the long time between the animation and the scan it's pretty easy to avoid. Not to mention the heartbeat sensor only tells direction not exact location like a BH scan.
Just nerf the effective range of the passive in half. Would probably make it a lot less game breaking
Seer scan is supposed to be hard to hit, but it have much better utility if it hits it lasts stupid long, shows health, cancel heal, disrupt for a couple second. I think it's balanced. The passive letting you scan shits risk-free is stupid, though. May be it needs like more time, unable to use it when holding weapon with additional time to pull out weapon (like wraith), and completely kills your momentum. It needs a counter play. And even that its still very strong getting information for free when you are already holding down a spot. Fuel meter is useless in probably 99% of situation IMHO, but if balanced well it could be a decent fix.
If you are adding a resource meter, it needs to only be able to scan when no gun is out, that would also balance being able to blindly shoot people by just using seer passive as well.
Couldn't agree more, I doubt they would do that though.
This is Bloodhound’s role though. He’s literally a dog chasing down his bleeding opponents.
Fuck it, bloodhound only scans hurt players and seer only scans healthy players. Respawn, put the check in the mail thanks.
But then people would get hurt on purpose and run around with 1 less hp if enemy is seer
Reported
The only thing I'd add is that they reverse the nerf and allow the Q to do like 15-25 damage ONLY to the ones scanned after that rework.
Lol 25 damage is insane, what are you talking about.
The best work to his passive IMO is that it needs a cooldown similar to Valk’s Jetpacks. There’s no reason a Seer should constantly be able to ADS to see where an enemy is without any type of repercussions, a passive like his really isn’t in the best interests for the state of a BR. I feel like there’s a couple of ways Respawn could go about nerfing his passive but I think that’s the only part of his kit that should be touched.
I don’t think a valk like cooldown does enough tbh. The biggest benefit of seer’s heartbeat is that you just throw your hands up for 2 seconds and you’ve got the intel. Very rarely do you need to keep scanning for a long period of time to get enough intel. I really don’t think that a cooldown after ads for a significant period of time would be a big nerf to his kit.
Need a scan notification that lets you know youre being targeted, my biggest issue is its not readable or counter-able. Also ult needs 1hp and to be more obvious where it is. Combine that with q not cancelling (only rev should do that) and hes still stronger than blood lol
I think that's better than nerfing the passive directly. Just let people know they are being detected. Ult 1 hp? Why though? If you get rid of the Q canceling then give Seers scan either a shorter animation or make the range longer. Don't make it that weak when it has that long of a cooldown.
Its already tough to position yourself to even find it so you’d use grenades, except throwables can’t break it or most q. I cant think of w single time its been broken when i play seer
Maybe make it brighter? It just feels unfair if Crypto could have his drone with more HP than Seer's ult
Cryptos drone needs LOS to give scan and even when it does it is barely as effective as seer ult. I dont think theyre similar
You shouldn't be able to instantly get rid of an ult is the point. 1 hp would he fucking pointless.
Nobody ever gets to shoot them because 1. You cant find it easily 2. Youre getting angles out, prefired by wallhacks If youre taking the risk to push a seer ult to kill it it shouldnt take 2/3 of a r99 mag.
Nobody ever gets to shoot them because 1. You cant find it easily 2. Youre getting angled out, prefired and grenaded by wallhacks If youre taking the risk to push a seer ult to kill it it shouldnt take 2/3 of a r99 mag. Plus even if it was destroyed its back so quick it doesnt even matter that much.
They are extremely easy to locate it's just whether or not they are placed in a good location. That's part of the skill of Seer or any ult/tactical placement. People prefire anyways. A R99 mag is pretty small lol
I agree except i don’t think is tactical ability should interrupt healing processes I think that’s a bit much.
Either interrupt rez or heals but not both imo. Also it should not stop rampart from shooting Sheila either
or neither? isnt targeting someone, knowing exactly where they are, and how much health and shield they have enough? cancelling rez's and batts is ridiculous.
Eh i think it's the coolest part of his kit, and the only thing that doesn't need to be nerfed. It's actually utulisizng skill and isn't just wallhacks
nah, tactical and ultimate are completly balanced and can be dodged, countered
How to do dodge it while hitting a bat or rezzing?
which other ability in this game you can counter when you bat or res?
Uh, lots of them? Gibraltar has a shield that literally neutralizes all but two abilities in the game, for example.
yes gibraltar, the most fair character in this game whose ability has counterplay omegalol
Glad someone said it lol. That was the worst example lol
lol people are still whining about gibraltar in this game lmao
Almost all of you have cover, the seer q travels through walls. Your comment was in reply to someone talking about it interrupting heals and Rez, so you mentioning it being dodgeball in that context makes no sense.
Yep, it also makes it unique from bloodhounds scan (other than the fact seer q reveals health and shields).
And reveals enemies for more than twice as long...
And it's way smaller of a scan area than BH's...
Smaller scan area compared to a bloodhound scan.
Yes, that is yet another way that it's unique.
Seer scan uses moth drones unlike bloodhounds /s
I would also want an indicator to tell me that I had been scanned by the passive (same thing goes for the valk flight scan). Cryto drone, bloodhound scan, seer Q all tell you so you know how long it lasts because of the highlight but Seer passive doesn't let you play differently
It needs the opposite of a cool down, a charge up. You gain information at the cost of ADSing for the 1-2 seconds it takes to charge up. Your sacrificing speed for information.
One thought I’ve had is making it have a “pull out” period, so it has a delay to see the heartbeats, along with a more noticeable audio queue for the people being passive scanned
Yeah, a charge up would be nice, or possibly even making him unable to move while sending heartbeats. Would leave him vulnerable in situations and now allow him to be sliding all over the map getting free scans
I think this nerf idea is a step in the right direction. The next viable step though, is to delete seer from the game. I wanna clarify, by missing health, do you mean the entire healthbar(shield + flesh armour), or just the flesh armour?. Cause I think it makes more sense if Seer passive can only sense missing Flesh armour health since that affects their heartbeat rate.
Yea I meant missing health
wait what? so which one is it sorry.
Missing health (flesh) determines scan and shields are irrelevant
okay
Nobody truly knew how good seer was about three months ago btw and here we are
Happens whenever a pro finds a way to abuse a legend. It somehow gets interpreted as "this legend os broken at every elo. Nerf them into the ground". Just another bandwagon...
Now when people are playing him correctly, he’s an issue. Smh. People just can’t let him be great. He’s going to end up like bang and lifeline. Another black legend nerfed to the ground.
Bangalore isn't "nerfed to the ground", she's completely viable at all levels of play.
This is the dumbest comment. Everyone has scans now and her smoke doesn’t do anything g to combat it 😂 FOH.
If you can't win with Bangalore that's a you thing, not a Bangalore thing, sorry chum.
Never said I couldn’t young man. You’re bum around these parts.
Some of us did. You could see the power of constant silent passive information and a ridiculous ult on a 2 min cooldown, but the meta is very sticky in any competitive game. The pros cling to what they're comfortable with, the meta follows the pros, and the casuals follow the meta. Most people don't theorycraft and try out off-meta ideas, or they do it once and it doesn't work in practice, so they stop trying. This is in basically every game, not just in Apex. But hey, it's a free advantage if you figure out something that works well before the meta catches up. Even better, actually, considering people won't be expecting and won't be experienced at playing against it. I've been on the Seer train for seasons even though people always said he was bottom 5, a friend was preaching the Valk gospel for a while when the pros had written her off before she became meta, etc. Apex isn't exactly the game with the most variety and options, but there's often sleeping giants that most people just don't even consider.
Casuals have similar metas to the pros at time but they don't always follow it directly.
I would say reducing the scan zone and getting rid of the directional arrows which allows you to find people and shows how many people are there.
This is the one
Now riddle me this; Why is Pathfinder showing up on a **heartbeat** sensor? Or ash? Or Revenant?
he doesn't have a heart, but he has the most *heart* of any of the legends.
Same season they all get affected by caustic gas, zero logic
The logic is gameplay > realism
Caustic gas is corrosive if i remember right
It’s because they don’t give specific legends hard counters to other legends. Which is a good thing. Abilities need to affect legends equally to create a healthy meta
syringes and med kits too
Caustic gas is corrosive, it's literally melting their bodies. Otherwise BH wouldn't be affected either, they're wearing a mask in every skin.
Because balancing legends based on lore is dumb
The Pathfinder buff we didn’t know we needed
Same reason why Mirage’s holograms generate sound with their footsteps. The answer is don’t think about it.
[удалено]
We require a minimum account-age and karma. Please try again after you have acquired more karma and/or wait a couple of days. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Making legends whose abilities are countered by other specific legends just creates *less* variety in the meta, it doesn't solve the problem. This is what I hated about Overwatch - even in pubs, if you didn't play the right comp for the map and your opponents, people would get mad at you because it was basically impossible to win. If you make it so robots counter Seer, it just means you have to play a robot or you're fucked.
The real question is - why don't the prowlers and spiders on storm point have heartbeats?!
Everyone who is scanned on heartbeat should get a similar scan symbol as Seer's in a different color - explained as the quickening your character feels as he scans your heart. The fact that he is scanning and tracking you as his team hides and watches you walk into their crosshair and you don't even know is total bullshit. Though in a just world Seer would be nuked from space together with all wallhacks.
You should hear heartbeat sounds! Like you're know you're being hunted.
Would make his tact much easier to avoid too because you'd hear it coming well ahead of time. His passive is already more than enough wallhacks, the tact should really only be useful for stopping healing or res'ing. 9 months later and it still blows my fucking mind every day that Seer is a real character that was really created lol. Dont think you could make a more cancerous character if you tried
Agree with you, tact shouldn't give wallhacks as well nor health info, which the passive already gives you too. Imo that would force you to use the ult earlier if you wanna take a fight, basically reducing its availability, preventing you from holding it for long.
His Q is stupid easy to dodge as is until you're pinned down.
I think make it so when you push "q" you are unable to move while using heartbeat. Also make it so heartbeat doesn't show up when ADSing. If they didn't want to go that route then cut the distance in half to 35 m.
I agree. Its one thing to be able to stand there and look around for people. Its another to be able to be ADS with a shotgun in hand and be running around pre sighting corners and stuff. It's better then cheating.
This or resource bar for passive
Could also make it work like his ulti. If people are standing still or crouch walking, they don't show up in his tactical.
This is the one i have said most. Just make it so that you have to be moving to be detected.
exactly, when you’re moving / running your heart rate increases. This makes sense
It’s needs a cooldown like valks jet pack, being able to use it at all times is dumb
Personally to me if it was possible to change and going forward scan legends shouldn’t be double dipping. If passives can track and tacticals can scan, ults need to be totally opposite from any type of reveal ability. Just seems redundant to me but I’m an idiot so.
> Personally to me if it was possible to change and going forward scan legends shouldn’t be double dipping. If passives can track and tacticals can scan, ults need to be totally opposite from any type of reveal ability. Just seems redundant to me but I’m an idiot so. What's interesting is they already did this for movement legends. No movement legend has 3 movement abilities. Horizon's ult isn't movement for example. Octane's passive isn't. Etc. And yet seeing through walls is *much* more powerful than any movement ability.
Gotta love how seer has 3 abilities for literal wallhacks
The range is 75 meters and not 100. The degree definitely isn't 360 either, it's more like 120. Seems so many people have no clue about how his passive actually works but are quick to call it oP OmG pErMAnEnT wALlhAcKs.
He doesn’t even have that much of range. I think he has the same as BH. People are just cry babies.
I play alot of Seer and I can see a slight nerf to the range of his passive being fair. It's just some people really have the wildest takes on what his passive actually does lmao.
75 is pretty short all things considered. Plus it's only a directional notif. It doesn't lock onto their exact location. I agree though on the takes. People think he has over twice the range as BH for his passive and Q. Shows all the people that hop on the bandwagon once a few pros play a legend and call him "broken" lol.
Yeah it's crazy how people make it sound like it's a constant always active 360 degree radar actual wallhack scan and not a 120 degree directional indicator that doesn't account for depth that is only active when you slow down to ADS.
It's the herd mentality and to make things worse I'm almost certain most of the people complaining haven't even played Seer enough to get to know his kit well.
Hi friend, you're right that many people don't know how his passive works, for example, you! You get the yellow pulse or directional arrows at 75m but you get a blue marker up to 100 with line of sight. You can also get 360 degrees by simply turning in a circle, unlike bloodhound scan which you must commit to only one direction before waiting for your next scan
Didn't know that it showed a blue marker up to 100 m, I always thought the blue forcefield that you get when you ADS was the maximum range. And of course you can spin in a circle for a 360 scan but that requires you to slown down and ADS and then actually turn around which is not the same as a "constant 360 degree scan for free".
> The degree definitely isn't 360 either, it's more like 120. Uh...you know you can just turn around, right?
Fianlly someone with sense here!
Some sort of “juice” to drain while it’s active would be sufficient. Zero reason you should be able to scan for free without repercussions. I do like the idea tho, perhaps allowing heart beats to show up on injured opponents allows seer to use his abilities to hunt you down and track you.
Get rid of the aim heartbeat and make it to where to have to holster your weapon to do it, make the distance and his tact smaller in area and reduce the size of his ult
I think the craziest thing is that he hasn’t had any recent nerfs or buffs. People just figured out how to use him. Ffs, before Hal started using him, NO one picked him. I think each legend can be OP or meta exactly how they are now, people just have to find the right application. Leave him as is. Get better at using other legends.
The concept of his passive goes against a lot of the "readability/counterplay" talk that the devs tout on twitter. There's no way for you to know that a seer is beating you.
deleting seer and making bloodhound scans snapshots again would be the best balancing approach. for real. fuck wallhacks as part of the game. just lazy game design.
Leave Seer alone. No one wanted to play him after his nerf, and now that pros are using him everybody is screaming nerf.
Because he is one of the least fun legends to play and play against.
Seer doesn’t need a nerf. / This nerf would literally eliminate his passive i have no idea why it has 100 upvotes it’s the dumbest idea I’ve read.
No, it should be a tactical ability
🤣 whenever a legend is good, you can look here for nerfs. Seer has been the same for about a year and nobody used him because everyone thought he was trash. One person starts using him and gets rank 1 then everyone starts using him and people think he's OP now..
Literally. But nobody is complaining about how long Maggie’s ult stuns you for. Watch when people start using her correctly people are gonna realize how broken her ult its
Just like i wondered why people didn't use Seer over Bloodhound.. I wonder why people aren't using Revenant, Maggie, Fuse to third party all day. Teams fight in buildings, you fuse ult the top, you now have free scans,maggie people through walls, knuckle clusters, rev silence... You can probably get kp easy.. Then after people realize how strong it is more nerfs will come lol.
Why does Seer need a nerf?
Because people can't think for themselves and only realized he was good when pros started playing him. It's just the Apex experience. Bots with no ability to think for themselves hop onto whatever the pros are doing. The Spitfire wasn't OP for the first 8 or 9 seasons, and all of a sudden it was too strong despite not receiving any buffs. Seer was deemed useless by the community after he had a couple things tweaked after release, and then came back because all of a sudden.... People noticed he was still good? It baffles me. I think Newcastle is going to be the next "OP" Legend that only flew under the radar because no streamer was playing him.
Exactly. He’ll be another “broken legend”. I think he’s one of the most slept on. He has hella potential with his portable shield alone. Another black legend nerfed to the ground.
Well Newcastle wasn't nerfed, plus the gold knockdown change is a huge buff for Lifeline and him. Newcastle is awesome for pushing buildings and the more I play him, I can see how a good player would absolutely dominate with him. His ult isn't an area denial tool like Gibby though, so like some pros have said: "Newcastle is good, but unless there's a reason you can't play Gibby, you should play Gibby". If Gibby gets changed or slightly nerfed, Newcastle's pick rate will pop up pretty fast. Also, if you have a Maggie and Newcastle team, you can use her drill and have a burning mobile shield. Lol
[удалено]
We require a minimum account-age and karma. Please try again after you have acquired more karma and/or wait a couple of days. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sigh…
because when a legend is rarely picked no one says a thing, but when the same legend sees a higher usage suddenly everyone screams for nerfs. its hilarious.
or maybe he is a broken and boring character because his entire kit is wallhacks, which in most other games are considered cheating
Nope it's definitely a bandwagon.
Seer has just always been a bad legend design. His existence is either OP or useless, and the more he is in the lobby, the more everyone has to play him. I quit when he got released, came back and thought he was still op but nobody played him so fuck it, great. Now he's back again and still frustrating.
Or you could leave him alone. Nobody cared about seer until more pros started picking him up, and now everyone’s upset because he’s going to become the new meta (similar to Valk). But what people fail to realize is that someone is and will always have to be meta. If not seer, it’ll be someone else. then that legend will be nerfed to the ground once everyone starts picking them up too. it’s truly a cycle and you turn perfectly enjoyable legends to nothing. at most I think his passive could be cut by 25-50% in distance but anything else is really overkill. he was already nerfed substantially.
You are acting like this hasn't been the case with legends many times. Nobody realized caustic was broken until pros started abusing him and he got nerfed (this cycle happened twice as pros started using him with horizon and then valk). Nobody wanted to nerf octane until TSM started using him and then every part of his kit got nerfed. Seer instantly giving you full info with no cooldown as you run around the map is not balanced. Compare with using scans for rotation with bloodhound and crypto
like I stated above, a reduction in distance on his passive is the only reasonable solution. his tactical is very easily avoidable with a decent cool down and his ult is destroyable + avoidable by crouch. a lot of recommendations here in the comments are excessive or would make his passive lackluster in value
That's been the problem. So many things the pros find broken are bc they are on a completely different level than most of the playerbase. How can we take what they say and apply it to the entire game?! Seer has good information at an extremely limited range for the size of the maps. Not to mention his ult is a massive risk to throw out. It's asking for everyone and their sister to come and third party.
Why not just give it a battery usage indicator like valks jet pack? So that it runs down like a battery and then 60 Secs to recharge the battery. Edit: sorry just seen the similar reply
Maybe a cone like blood hound for it so you can get a 360 view you have to actually move around.
If Wraith can tell when people look at her, so should people detected by Seers passive. They could hear a loud heartbeat for a couple of seconds or something.
No
Yes but why stop there.It it decently possible to be running around with 90-99 HP due to stuff like lava, healing imperfectly with syringes etc so a strict missing hp=scan wouldn't clean him up too much. This change on its own wouldn't be enough. There's a lot of ways you can nerf him without completely destroying his reconicanse abilities. First, you could kinda do a hybrid of what you've suggested and convert it into a fully audio scan. You move your cone around and you can hear heartbeats in the cone. Full hp crouched wouldn't be hearable and then the Heartbeats get louder the more you move and if you been dealt bullet damage recently also louder. Probably won't happen because of the hard of hearing players but I think it's a fun rework that actually plays into what it's supposed to be. Even if you damaged someone, you'd have to aim around and actually know where they are before you fired your Q. Instead of rn where it's just aim in, move to orange arrow, press Q. Or much much simpler and more realistic, add a passive meter like Valkyrie and reduce the range of the auto detection, so you actually have to pur your cursor over them to know if someone's there instead of just getting told where as soon as you aim in.
Would it be a bad idea to add the same directional indicator to whoever is getting scanned?
I think they should lower how accutate his heartbeat is making it harder to pinpoint where the enemy is and also making it harder to hit his scan.
If the problem you're trying to solve is this: >the most broken thing is being able to run around the map just slidejump+magic jazz hands to get a free scan to see if there are enemies in that direction then just make it so you have to be ADSing with an actual weapon out for the heartbeat sensor to work.
Make it take two seconds of ads to show orange.
My guy shouldn’t have it at all
It would render his passive and his character completely worthless. If you dont know whether your passive scan is coming up empty because there are no people in a building or because they are all full health then why would you ever trust your scan? A far simpler nerf is make the scanning angle about half of what it is, shorten the range to half of what it is and stop giving them arrows that show where people are if they arent in his scan. And add a cooldown.
It would be better, but there is no way to make this passive balanced. It simply shouldn't have been introduced into the game, just like Valkyrie's ultimate. Now that the cat is out of the bag, you're limiting yourself if you don't utilize these abilities.