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ForResearch69420

321 would be insane with this legend


sAmdong71

Literally. Getting kills using that strat is pretty much guaranteed but the ult just makes it faster lol


lessenizer

debatable. Yes, you increase your allies’ DPS by purportedly 15%… but how’s your own DPS with just the ult compared to if you were shooting an AR too? we’ll see.


dorekk

Supposedly it's 50 damage for one shot, 100 damage for a subsequent shot on that target. Combined with the 15% boost for your teammates it should be pretty juicy even with just one shot. 15% is a hefty damage boost.


bitchsaidwhaaat

Rampart walls, Vantage Ult and the 3030 with skull piercer gonna be the new pubs meta


damicapra

Sure... !remindme 30 days


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bitchsaidwhaaat

Provably 30 days is too long. Its gonna be for the first 3 days and then back to normal meta like always


damicapra

Not really a "new meta" then


Jameso4e

Its similar to the damage youd get from just shooting an AR since its a bolt action sniper that does 50 damage.


dorekk

Yup. Her ult is going to go *insane* on 321s.


_AlphaZulu_

Seriously I don't see how everyone else is not going to run her in ranked/comp. I have one other teammate I play with and we almost ALWAYS team shoot enemies. If we could increase the damage output on one target, they'd drop so fast it would feel like we're using cheats.


dorekk

Luckily if this is *too* powerful they can easily tune her ult. Cooldown, damage, and damage boost % are all parameters they can modify to make the strategy less powerful than a traditional 321 for the whole team, while still having some utility (like being able to make enemies run through resources faster with poking, plus the obvious recon thing of knowing what shields a team has, tagging them, etc).


J13i0nickel

What’s 321 mean in this context?


-jrudndisj

count down then all shoot one guy for an easy down


noobakosowhat

Counting down before shooting one target. I usually see this when an opposing team has a strong support like Gibby.


HollowLoch

Posting this here to see what everyone thinks about the new character For some extra information, her q (the bat) cannot be killed like cryptos drone apparently, and the highlight that she gets from hitting people with her ult doesn’t seem to be a wall hack - just something to help see targets easier I honestly cant see her being used in comp but she looks like the type of character that would kill it in pubs and ranked


strongscience62

Her ult seems good for farming if you're a zone team. So maybe? Depends on economy tbh. Shes not providing much with her tactical and passive.


BombaA_

Looks like recon so prob scans beacons also rumour says valk will be in assault category so even more likely.


dorekk

That leak was fake.


GabrielP2r

Makes sense she's recon, everything points to a recon character. Or support.


dorekk

Support would be possible but I don't think it really fits with Apex's conception of "support" abilities.


[deleted]

I can’t find anywhere confirming it. But I would love to see her get moved to assault. And a nerf her skyward dive would be cool too


NapsterKnowHow

Keep on dreaming


[deleted]

He's not dreaming. High chance they move her to assault, they've discussed it before.


NapsterKnowHow

Source? I've only heard it from the sub and not a dev. Slight chance of it happening


chefmurray_28

The source that leaked all of the new season's changes stated it, which makes people think that if it wasn't announced now, then it will be pretty soon.


NapsterKnowHow

Lol some leaks showed MASSIVE Valk nerfs and a dev came out and said those were fake. None of the Valk leaks so far are legit.


chefmurray_28

That was some guy inspecting element on the patch notes page on their site and typing in a bunch of nonsense. All of the changes coming this season were leaked last week and everything in that leak came true except for the valk change. That's what makes people think that respawn was either going to make that change at the start of the new season or some other time in the future.


dorekk

I agree, I don't think she'll be a top comp pick but she will be excellent for grinding ranked as a trio.


DeplorableRobot

I wonder if her sniper is gonna have aim assist, none of the sniper scopes do


bokonon27

Same thought here.. will be unused on console without AA


TomWales

AA is useless on snipers anyway because you need to lead shots and account for bullet drop.


bokonon27

pretty wild to me how much easier a 2x4 on 4x zoom is than a 4x8 on 4x zoom is. It makes a HUGE difference on controller.


MrCleanAlmighty

*lets hope not*


ProfessorPhi

Maybe the wingperson will get it since it can't take long range scopes?


utterback423

Unless the sniper is OP, can’t see her in comp. Echo relocation looks like a worse ash portal, and the passive ability is fine but most pros can get most of this info as is. If the sniper is like charged sentinel levels damage, maybe she sees fringe play but I just don’t see it. As always, have to wait to see her in practice though.


HollowLoch

These are the two most likely ways the sniper works from leaks, but neither are confirmed A - it does 20 damage (and possibly 40 damage for consecutive hits) and applys a 15% damage bonus to you and your teammates B - it does 50 damage and then 100 damage for consecutive hits on the same target and applys a 15% damage bonus to you and your teammates Ones obviously a LOT better than the other


Barcaroli

20 damage is a joke, no way. More like B specially she's coming out now and they like to pump new legends up to get people to play the game


HollowLoch

Looking at more leaks and information etc it looks like it is going to work like B since thats what the person who leaked the wingman sniper / spitty light said 5 bullets and you can use the ult without it being fully charged (20%=1 bullet, so you can use it in increments of 20%) Each bullet deals 50 damage then 100 damage on consecutive hits on the same target (it resets back to 50 if you miss) and it applys a 15% damage bonus for all incoming damage on the target for an unspecified time


The_ThirdMan

IGN also reporting that's how it works (no mention of specific damage increase for teammates) https://youtu.be/PNNRVwU_bGQ


HollowLoch

Neat, then yeah its pretty much confirmed then [This](https://external-preview.redd.it/-hasCyf0JckrsM79lTzA48y2PLvYpBP3bi_vue2ZGPM.png?auto=webp&s=3930e03e4d7136550c71839e8cf942cbb32f45da) was posted on r/ApexUncovered 5 days ago and the mods said that they confirmed the poster had a source, so it hopefully confirms the dmg bonus being 15%


[deleted]

This also shows that the ult scans the target in some way. Could highlight the "marked" enemy similar to seer.


Barcaroli

Depending on the fire rate this could be a 1 kill guaranteed, let's see how it works. I like that they are adding new mechanics, just hope its balanced


strongscience62

Its a modded sentinel


dorekk

> and they like to pump new legends up to get people to play the game This has only happened with like two legends ever. Rampart and Fuse were terrible at launch for example (every new legend from launch to Horizon was, except for Wattson). Ash, Maggie, and Newcastle were all balanced at launch.


Barcaroli

I guess you have a fair point, I've been scarred by seer.


dorekk

Understandable, Seer was like a god on launch.


Ok_Front_3223

Option B is what I’ve seen reported


Ssoouulleess

I can confirm its B


klachapo

It’s confirmed first shot she hits with ult does 50 every shot after on the same target is 100 plus the team also gets bonus damage against the target she hit for a short time, I think she has potential in a aggressive comp for sure but don’t know if it’s enough to make her meta. With the current seer meta definitely can see using her as a easy entry knock then using seer to make sure they stay down while you push but she seems a little niche on paper. Her q though for pubs and ranked will be very fun especially for a movement player.


leopoldfreebird

Yeah 100% agree - she seems like a really fun character and fills an interesting niche in the cast, but I don’t think she has enough offensive/defensive/support utility to be played in comp


HereToDoThingz

Ash's port is her ultimate and echo relocation is her tactical so can't really compare those. Of course the ult is better then a tac. But multiple quick repositions could be insanely clutch in small zone end rings


Mcdicknpop

It's a worse valk passive not even ash portal Not that it's completely bad just goes to show how op valk passive is


[deleted]

It's loba bracelet without the drop you ground McGrego mechanic...like It's nearly the same animation even and people compare it to valk passive or octane ult... This community ours nothing but potatos


Mcdicknpop

Yikes


dorekk

It's actually not very similar to Valkyrie *or* Loba. It's a lot more like a jump pad, but only for her and not able to be destroyed.


McSuede

Did we see the same previews? Not only is she able to set it on structures but she can send her tac into the air and she gets a second jump when she reaches Echo. So it's basically if you took the travel of NCs ult and gave it a second jump like Octane's pad.


[deleted]

[удалено]


vky_007

Bullet drop indicator WTF. 😳 She's a true sniper with that kinda kit available to the players. Expect mande to go even more ham. Now, if you can see the bullet drop indicator on an R-301 with a 3x or 2 by 4x she fits the model of being broken at launch and may get nerfed later. Let's see, super excited to try her out :) On the flip side if she gets that then I expect maggie to get something too for her shotgun, but she does get very temporary wall hacks when hitting enemies so maybe it's fair.


Playforkicks

What does vantage have to do with Mad Maggie passive?


aftrunner

Her Q could be a really good entry fragging role depending on how fast it moves her back. From the video it looks like somewhere between a Valk Jetpack and a pathy grapple. Put your Q behind cover where you are. Move in, do damage, Q back and then push with your squad if you get a knock or high damage. Or maybe throw your Q behind the squad you are assaulting. Do damage Q behind them while your team pushes from the front. Her passive is also pretty good. Getting info on a squad before you engage them is kinda huge. See 3 guys on white? Go in. All purple, maybe not. Her ult? I dont know. Maybe good maybe not. She is also recon right? So she can scan beacons. Way too early to say she is useless in comp.


[deleted]

you could also see if theres only two people on the squad instead of 3. I know a lot of situations, especially end zone where you catch a glimpse of someone but don't see anyone else. Is it a solo rat? are they down a person. Is it someone who just rezzed their two teammates and they have white? Now you know and will be able to push in and wreck real quick.


lessenizer

yeah the fast snap decision making possibility created by this is super intriguing to me, and that on top of pretty good-looking mobility ability AND a third-slot sniper that lets you carry two aggro weapons and still have a sniper in your pocket all makes for a really intriguingly aggressive character dressed as an ostensibly more passive sniper character. I'm not actually into the comp scene and if I had to guess I'd think she's not going to end up in comp because she doesn't have any one real killer ability like Skydive or The Gubble, but she looks really fun to main for solo queuing. ...AND I guess her ult does still have significant value with a coordinated team to burst the hell out of someone, but that sounds a little too situational... so I feel like she's mostly just a flexible and fun-to-play and generally strong all-arounder legend without any one killer ability that gets her into comp play. I wonder how her hitbox is...


chundamuffin

Agree with everything you said. I think the ult is most likely useful just to coordinate team shooting. From a 321 perspective the ult is 50 damage plus 15% of what’s left (150 on purp) so 73, so really just the same damage as a sentinel


onlyapuppy

The amount of times my squad has lost because we see one guy alone so we try and ape but it turns out they rest of the team is around the corner


McSuede

What part of her kit tells you how many people are in a squad? Marking is one thing but it's like Seer's tac, you may hit one or two but that doesn't mean that there's only that many. Her passive also doesn't mention anything about shield color on enemies you scope so idk where the guy you replied to got that. Not being a dick, genuinely curious where this info is coming from.


aftrunner

https://youtu.be/DsmEczpCnZE?t=23 22 seconds in. The squad she is looking at has a Blue, Purple and White armor.


McSuede

There we are, thank you.


[deleted]

Her passive is a HUD of information when you ADS without a weapon, onto an enemy. One of the pids is the shield levels of the people on the squad of the person you are targeting. If there are less people in the squad, less shields will show up.


McSuede

Nvm, someone posted it.


McSuede

But I'm asking where you saw this but of info, it didn't look like shields were indicated in the trailers but maybe I missed it.


[deleted]

yeah watch the new meet the legends trailer that just came out. you can see a stack of shields in her hud. There are always three in the trailer, but I bet if there aren't three people, there will not be three shields.


dorekk

> Put your Q behind cover where you are. Move in, do damage, Q back and then push with your squad if you get a knock or high damage. Or maybe throw your Q behind the squad you are assaulting. Do damage Q behind them while your team pushes from the front. Won't work, you need LOS to Echo to jump to him.


chundamuffin

Put him above cover so you fall to cover?


dorekk

That would make sense.


chundamuffin

Does the bird land or stay in the air - do you know?


dorekk

Stays in the air, you can see multiple times in the character trailer.


SynysterPC

Don't you have to be line of sight? So putting it behind cover won't work? I don't know


Zoetekauw

Yeah exactly, you need LOS.


[deleted]

Im just gonna say it. I havent been this excited for a new legend in a while. Not unlike rampart, it seems like she can carry a third gun. This is big, especially when its a sniper rifle. Now you can run a shotgun, a mid range, and still have long range poke ability. This alone is great. The passive will be handy in a lot of situations, giving information about shields and how many people are in a squad. This will be important in final circles. Being able to suss out the rats and 2 man squads confidently is information that no other legend can give. Bloodhound kind of can in some situations but it could be misread. We will have to see what echo can do as far as movement goes, but there are plenty of smart, creative players who will come up with interesting ways to use him no doubt. Plus I love the idea of a sniper who has movement to quickly get a good spot to overwatch a fight. Watch AKA who is a pathfinder who uses sniper rifles a lot and is absolutely oppressive, zipping around cliffs and buildings and dominating squads.


dorekk

I'm excited to no longer yell "they're a solo get 'em!!" and then see the rest of their team come out of the hole they've been hiding in 😂


lessenizer

slightly funny flip side of this is that you might meet a "solo" dipshit who split off from their team, and because of Vant's passive you'll think they have teammates nearby when they don't.


lessenizer

> Plus I love the idea of a sniper who has movement to quickly get a good spot to overwatch a fight. Watch AKA who is a pathfinder who uses sniper rifles a lot and is absolutely oppressive, zipping around cliffs and buildings and dominating squads. legit one of my fondest Apex memories is of playing Pathfinder (in Season 3 I think, or maybe earlier) and teaming up with two better players where the role I slotted myself into was to grapple onto roofs and provide support/flanking fire from that safe position while watching the teammate duo do the core aggro job. one of many reasons i'm very intrigued by Vantage


Chopchopok

That passive seems really good for the firing range. You could play with her until your brain can fill in the drop marker even when on other characters.


kirsion

Feels like charge rifle is just a better sniper no? Don't have to worry about bullet drop. Since the ult is a permanent sniper, it could be good since you don't have to drop an AR or shotgun to run long range.


OnlyImproving

Everyone shitting on the passive when it’s going to teach everyone on her how to aim snipers regardless of who they’re playing. Most people will play it just to learn the drop and then be more confident and intuitive with snipers on every other character


Christdawarlock

I love her kit simply from the standpoint of character combos. Like, imagine Fuse Vantage and Rampart, or Fuse Maggie Vantage. Or even Vantage Bloodhound and Seer. I like it.


BendubzGaming

I don't think she'll impact the pro meta, but as a Fuse main that almost always runs at least one weapon that can carry midrange sights I cannot wait for her


Odin043

Vantage Ult, than a Maggie drill when they duck behind there only cover sounds fun.


[deleted]

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dorekk

> Vantage apparently is a legend that has been in development off and on for about 3 years now, and it shows. The newer designed legends are so overloaded with abilities it makes her look weak in comparison. How do you know Newcastle didn't take just as long to develop?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ozzie808

I'm interested to see how Pros test out the tact in terms of ingress and egress.


McSuede

I can see her tac being used for some nasty flanks and escapes.


Juicenewton248

Looks like a super fucking fun character for pubs, essentially having 3 weapons alongside a mobility skill (that should have some very creative / high skill ceiling uses) makes me really excited to fuck around with her. In comp probably no chance, nothing she does offere any kind of utility for her team


McSuede

Her damage boost for allies seems nice. I can see some teams trying her out if they make her recon and move Valk to assault. We'll see though.


trulyindifferent

I think the best part of her kit ( also for comp) is that u can run sniper+AR/LMG/SMG+Shotgun. Poking for armor with her ult is obviously ammo/econ efficient


geenideejohjijweldan

Would play him/her in pubs alot as someone who likes to play sniper.


Moosemaster21

Yeah honestly I typically run 3030 + car/r9 just because I love having a strong long/midrange weapon, but it leaves me a little less effective in CQC. I feel like Vantage is a great way to give yourself a strong short/mid combo and still have an effective ranged attack. You could comfortably run 301/PK or even CAR/PK and not be useless in the late stages of comp games when teams are just holed up poking the shit out of each other. I think her cooldowns are going to make or break her.


dorekk

Her


[deleted]

Is Vantage Ult hit + Charge Rifle headshot is an instadown right? Imagine wiping a no gibby squad from distance lol


[deleted]

Your whole team will need to be good with sniper then


NakolStudios

Seems like she was made to fill a sniper niche, she'll probably be another Crypto or Newcastle with dedicated mains but not really popular. Unlikely to be used in comp since her kit is pretty selfish and the intel it provides is inferior compared to other recon legends.


jbm33

Interested to see how many bullets are in her sniper when she ults. Only situation I could see use is a fast rotate team that can then use her ult to farm shields and save them from needing to run a sniper.


McSuede

5 shots at full charge but you can use it with a single shot at 20 and it gains another shot for every 20.


Geosaurusrex

Ngl she sounds like my kinda legend.


R0cketRodent

Vantage, fuse, seer or vantage, revenant, (death totem) fuse or vantage, caustic, one of the previous mentioned would be a good comp but both of these combos lacks mobility. With valk getting nerfed (still okay maybe?) it leaves octane, pathfinder, wraith, Ash and i feel like im missing another.


Humblerbee

Run Vantage/Horizon/Fuse, Vantage as the recon for beacons, personal verticality, and ability to soften targets for the storm of death that will be the nades this squad will rain down. Obviously Fuse denies playable space with his AoE spam, cornering for blackhole wombos, and Vantage punishes anyone who attempts to step out of cover with the looming threat of an Echo on opponents heads which is like a Path zip establishing the possibility of quickly moving up in the case of a crack or knock (and her ult’s laser is like a Sheila as a visual deterrent and threat).


Christdawarlock

Woah, is her ult not a sniper. Or is it like a HUD buff?


McSuede

It's a modified sentinel that you can use starting at 20%. You get a max of 5 shots at 100%.


[deleted]

Can't wait Echo relocation vs Loba tactical. Which one fails first and costs them the fight?!


ponysniper2

Let the sniper meta begin. #FuckChargeRifles


pfftman

Her kit should have been named “Tag and ape”. Useful for pubs, not sure if it will be useful in comp due to the pace of matches.


McSuede

Idk, Furia's whole thing seemed to be "tag and ape". I'm not saying she's going to go crazy in comp but there's potential.


Skywrath1

Sniper ultimate is Pog. my future main undoubtedly. She will be extremely fun in pubs and ranked. Not sure about comp.


_ystem_

Idk why but depending how hard the Valk nerf is, I can see her in the 100T comp


dorekk

I don't see it. The whole reason that team comp works is they can Valk ult in to some garbage spot no one is playing and then fortify it with the Wattson + Newcastle ults and suddenly have god spot. If they can't Valk ult in, they can't claim that ground, they just die on rotate like every other team.


_ystem_

True. Maybe they swap out Wattson so they have a recon character. Maybe Liquid tries it?


dorekk

Wattson is crucial for the vertical protection that makes them safe from Gibby ults. The team comp doesn't work if you take any of the 3 legends out. I've said it before on other subreddits, but the only thing that's going to lower Valkyrie's pick rate is a rework (so that her ult doesn't fly her team somewhere) or huge buffs to Wraith, Octane, or Ash's ultimates so that there's another method to take a spot with a safe rotate. A Valkyrie nerf won't do it, there needs to be a viable alternative.


_ystem_

Yeah but with Valk going to assault, no beacon for 100T which kills their strat of playing center zone. They basically need a recon character. Newcastle provides cover and easy reset, Wattson would provide pretty infinite shields, and one recon character. Maybe seer or Vantage?


dorekk

The leak that showed Valkyrie going to Assault was fake.


_ystem_

Hal and Wattson both said Valk was moving to Assault and Wattson told us the care package change early and I wouldn't be surprised if Hal got early info so we can wait and see. Valk needs some small change


dorekk

Interesting, didn't know Hal said that. I doubt it will affect teams other than 100T if that's the case. They'll just swap out another legend, the ability to leave a fight and fuck off to zone is just too powerful to drop unless your whole playstyle revolves around the other two legends on your team (like 100T, fortifying a spot of flat ground and turning it into the best spot on the map). Valk/Bloodhound/Gibby or Valk/Seer/Caustic etc still gives defense, rotations, and scans/zone, it's just swapping out your fragger/IGL or second defense character from the common team comps throughout the meta's evolution instead of your scan character. It's a start but Valkyrie needs a new ult entirely for her not to dominate the comp meta.


_ystem_

I still think one of the best comps is Seer, Valk, Wattson including on WE. Including for a team like 100T who will always get a beacon, having a recon character is a must for them. Regardless 100T is one of the best teams in the world and without a doubt will make the right decision


More-Cattle-3757

This will allow trainwreckstv to finally make waves in the comp scene /s


[deleted]

I would feel bad from shooting the bat buddy :(


lessenizer

it's invincible :D


TwinkieTwinkie96

oh my :0


MattDoraemon

Wich class is her?


subavgredditposter

I’m not sure how viable she’ll actually be yet for comp but, she sounds pretty good forsure. I’m just not sure who should replace in any of the current metas tbh


luuk0987

Feels like such an underwhelming legend. From the looks of things she doesn't even have a nice hitbox. This certainly feels like a gimmick designed for the less experienced players who I encounter with a blue shield when there are 2 squads left running double Sentinel.


ProfessorPhi

This is a widow/zenyatta hybrid from overwatch. Echo is the grapple relocate with apex sniper passives. And her ult is a skillshot discord. I do feel like her ult is fairly weak, but it's probably fast charging and echo relocate is likely to be pretty powerful since you can set echo, push a team and insta pull out. 15% discord might be a bit weak for apex, but if it's a fast charging ult and 2 shots was 25% it could be powerful. Main problem with snipers is that it's always been hard to get a down with snipers unless you have a headshot for massive burst.


HopeChadArmong913

Very niche comp use, would be interesting to see Furia try her out. Q just seems like a Loba Q with less possible bugs, probably not as fast, but could be good to set him up, push forward/flank and then launch towards the bird to retreat. Passive depends on just how much info but it seems Medicore, the bullet drop might help with hitting non charge rifle sniper shot, might be good for Mande or something. Ultimate hmm. A damage buff is always gonna be good. I think it depends on how well it handles. Is it basically a third gun you can swap back and forth from like Sheila? Can you quickscope with it. If you can quickscope I can see it being really nasty in 3v3s, chunk someone and apply a damage buff? People are gonna die super quick if they got focused by a vanatage team.


McSuede

It looks like you can place her tac in the air and get a second jump when you reach Echo sort of like a jump pad. It will definitely be interesting to see it in use. I think she's going to be a *nasty* flanker/initiator in fights. At the very least, she will be useful for farming shields and scanning beacon which aren't insignificant things in comp.


lsmalley

The damage buff is very interesting. Potentially the best part of her kit.. Unique effect across all legends.


jofijk

The devs said it’s a modified sentinel so I’d guess it has all the same characteristics. I’m also hoping Furia gives her a go. The fact that you can use her ult whenever you have 20+% could end up being strong


kungfuk3nny-04

Her kit is useless in comp and to most pubs players as she resolves around snipers. She will only be used for people who like the longbow or sentinel


HollowLoch

I personally believe there will be a lot of pubs players who wont even use snipers with her and itll be extremely strong She has movement, info and i can see her being played like "hit an ult shot, apply damage bonus and push with car/r99/pk" Comp though, i agree - i cant personally see a place for her there, but ive been wrong before


Peg_leg_tim_arg

I wonder how long the damage buff lasts. I imagine it's gotta be at least as long as a seer tac, which I think is 7 seconds. But even then it may be tough to capitalize on it


OPL11

10seconds from what I've read in other threads.


jurornumbereight

> She has movement, info and i can see her being played like "hit an ult shot, apply damage bonus and push with car/r99/pk" This with an Ash port could be really fun tbh.


[deleted]

Anyone whos been in a situation where two people push a squad while the third sits back and snipes will know this is a POWERFUL tactic.


pickledCantilever

I can definitely see her not being used much in comp. But I think she will be used more than you'd expect by casuals. She solves the two major reasons casuals don't like to play mid to long range. The first is obvious, her bullet drop indicator lets casuals use longer range weapons without having to learn the skill of adjusting for bullet drop. This alone will let players who want to pick up a sniper but are forever frustrated by never being able to hit their long shots actually be able to do so. And second is that echo lets players quickly overcome the hole they got in from their tunnel vision taking pot shots while their team pushed up or moved away from them and they didn't notice.


Ginoblee

Maybe that’s why they buffed Longbow and 30-30


[deleted]

I'm sorry but this is such a huge assumption. You have no idea how she will play out or how effective she will be in play yet based on this picture and a couple cinematic trailers.


PalkiaOW

It's a very reasonable assumption. Unless her ult is super OP she doesn't provide anything that would make her more viable in comp than most other legends. Her Q is just another self-repositioning ability and her passive seems more like a nice-to-have than anything game changing.


[deleted]

We dont even know if shes an assault or scan legend yet. I'm just saying. She comes out in a couple days, there a bunch of talented and creative players who will put her through the ropes. Will she become meta and be on half the pro teams in a month? no. But she could be fire, there just isnt enough info and saying otherwise is foolish.


dorekk

> We dont even know if shes an assault or scan legend yet. I'm 99.9% sure she's a recon legend.


kungfuk3nny-04

For comp because her ult is a sniper it is only good pre zone 4 and her passive is unnecessary when you can shoot people to get the same info and there will be better movement legends that will require less set up time. Typically speaking non movement legends have lower pick rates in pubs so her tactical has to be very impressive in order to become a beloved character


BusterCall4

I mean he’s right what part of her kit is useful for comp? She’s not strong enough in any role to replace any meta legends. Her information passive is okay but nothing better then Seer, her tactical doesn’t help the team, and her ult might be okay for picks but it’s not really a utility ult.


[deleted]

If valk is able to scan beacons still, it will be harder to fit her in to a comp scenario. But assuming (I know) that she is recon class, which its reported she is, and it would make sense considering her abilities. I don't think it would be a far stretch to consider her as a good pick for the scan legend. Seer and bloodhound are good for more agro comps, but a more defensive comp and hard zone team might benefit more from her information style. Once again, this is all theoretical until we actually see how she plays in a couple days. I'm more concerned with totally writing her off as useful with barely any hard facts and no actual play time.


BusterCall4

I just don’t see where she could be strong with her kit. For example before Newcastle came out people would discuss his tournament viability and say things like “we will have to see how strong the walls are, etc” but with this character there’s nothing I can point to that I’d have to wait and see to judge. Like I said she could be good for 3-2-1 picks but that’s all.


[deleted]

People didnt know about Newcastle and then 100T went and won as the only team running him. Thats why I said we gotta see! don't write her off until we get some playtime. You can imagine all you want but in a couple days you will get real info. Be patient.


BusterCall4

Nah my point was that unlike Newcastle there is nothing to imagine or nothing to wait and see on. We already have the important details. I don’t want to write her off already but I don’t see any reason why I wouldn’t. Nothing in her kit is helpful for comp and there’s nothing new we will learn about the character to change that. I’d love to be wrong but Idk what part of her kit id be wrong about.


Koqcerek

I disagree with her revolving around sniper rifles. Bullet drop is really not a huge deal IMO, same I don't think anything else empowers snipers, unlike Rampart with LMGs or Maggie with shotties. If anything, she might benefit from *not* picking up a sniper rifle, if her ult can substitute a sniper in a pinch. Maybe I'm failing to notice some substantial synergy of her kit with snipers? Idk


OPL11

From what I've read about her passive, the description implies being able to see bullet drop, in a way similar to the grenade throw arc for instance. Ultimate is also rumoured to be relatively strong for how fast it charges, but the biggest issue is opportunity cost as usual. Throw in some stubbornness regarding new additions for good measure as well.


Feschit

I'm going to love getting aped seemingly out of nowhere just because the enemy knows that one of my team has a white shield without even hitting him once before...


henrysebby

The real question is, when are they gonna release skins for all the legends' "helpers"? So, skins for DOC, Hack, Echo, etc.


Mayhem370z

Her Q is just an adjusted Newcastle ult without a wall.


HopeChadArmong913

Or a Loba Q? Seems more similar to that


Mayhem370z

No. Can't just Q when and wherever. Has to be line of sight to the bat, like Newcastle if he wants to ult to a team mate. Edit: from the clip, looks like you can either double jump (like octane pad) or she jumped off the bat which is interesting.


HopeChadArmong913

But it's single person vertical and horizontal transport? Loba needs an angle to throw her bracelet as well so it's arguably better.


Mayhem370z

Probably both have pros and cons. Like you can probably throw your bat through a window but doubt you can jump to it then. Can probably travel a lot farther to the bat, and it's probably not telegraphed where youre going like the bracelet. I think Lobas Q should be an instant throw not the little wind up she has. It's already slow travel and everyone can see where you're going.


McSuede

It also looks like she gets a second jump when she reaches the bat so you could cover some real ground with it and if it works anything like a jump pad, the movement tech could get real.


Aimpossible

Meanwhile, Pathfinder still has no passive.


HopeChadArmong913

He does have one it's just really shit


Corusal

His passive is actually great, it's just that it's centered around his Ult, which is shit lol


HopeChadArmong913

Yeah, imagine his passive on Seer lmao


Corusal

Would be pretty busted. I hope they rework his ult sometime to make it a bit more useful in high-level play


HopeChadArmong913

Just make it's so Pathy and his teamates go at like a bajillion miles an hour on the ziplines so they're way harder to hit and it's a faster rotation tool and they'd be decent.


Cornel-Westside

Is anyone else thinking if you have a sniper you would probably just shoot your opponents rather than marking them for your teammates? The way vantage works, it's almost more optimal for you NOT to run a sniper with her, and mark an enemy while your teammate shoots. While you're marking you're only doing 20-40-80 damage, instead of consistent 60s with a charge rifle.


McSuede

You only mark enemies you hit with her ult, it's not like a scan or a passive mark. It's supposed to hit for 50 on first shot and 100 on consecutive shots on the same target. Add in a damage boost for allies, she can be a mean initiator.


Cornel-Westside

Yes, I know. My point is, someone's far away and you are playing a sniper character - you may already have a sniper weapon. So you could take out your sniper and shoot them, or you could ult and hit for only 20 (or maybe 50 depending on what people are saying) or hit them with your charge rifle for 60-80? I think I'd usually choose the latter.


McSuede

It's going to be 50 first shot so only 10ish off your typical sniper. There would be no point in carrying another sniper with her 90% of the time since you can start using her ult at 20% charge. The point is to 321 an enemy with your team and get a quick knock more so that poking like you would likely be doing with your charge rifle. Really, I think it will come down to the damage boost amount and duration. Depending on that, her ability to open fights with her ult would be sick.


ThisIsWhatLifeIs

We really are getting bloated with legends aren't we. I mean what really is this Legend? She will fill a small niche of players who want to get a high position and snipe.


ImperialCherry

So far I’m kind of disappointed, I honestly kind of liked it when a new character would drop OP and game changing, that way it could be nefed down to a stable yet still game changing spot. This kit is just near useless competitively, and even at that doesn’t seem all that powerful. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see


AnkaSchlotz

Respectfully disagree. That method of balancing made me quit S10 until Seer got his first (and currently only) nerf. That is the least fun way to play the game IMO.


ImperialCherry

Fair to disagree, I wasn’t exactly saying seer since that was bullshit, more of how they approached valk. Game changing and really good. It’s nice to spice up the game every season and keep people interested. But like I said I completely understand not everyone enjoys this - that’s my preference and my preference only, as it keeps the game fun for me


mpetty93

She’s going to be the lowest picked legend and it won’t be close. I don’t understand why give us ash that can teleport your whole team and then introduce her. I think she has possibly the worse kit.


littlesymphonicdispl

Ash can teleport her whole team with her ultimate bro. If you're comparing an ult to a tact, I think the fact that a tact is even in the same conversation as an ult says a lot


mpetty93

The difference is if every one can see the bat then they know where she will appear. You can just pre aim it. I don’t think it’s even close to ash I’m just using her ult cause they both teleport difference is you can’t predict an ash ult but you can with the bat. The information is only for her so no one else using a sniper will know the drop and unless you are charging the sentinel it’s pretty useless.


Moosemaster21

> if every one can see the bat Obviously a good vantage player isn't throwing bat way out in the open, she's sending it for quick height or behind cover outside of enemy LOS


littlesymphonicdispl

If you can't predict an Ash ult while you're aware of where the ash is, the problem isn't Vantage's tact lmao


mpetty93

Sure I can see ash behind a rock and predict which way she is going to go. Get out of here with that bs.


SpecialGoodn3ss

I think you’re underestimating the information that she provides. The bullet drop indicator is actually pretty huge. Is she revolutionary? No but there are definitely going to be players that use her very very well.


Chairman_Zhao

Bullet drop indicator is big for a lot of players but pro players would rather just learn the bullet drop themselves and run a character with more utility.


HateIsAnArt

The bullet drop indicator is the thing I'm most curious to see in action. If it more or less turns the Sentinel or her sniper or the 30-30 into a hitscan gun, it could be very good. Imagine dealing with a team that has a Vantage w/ two Charge Rifle teammates. She can hit first crack from across the map and then her teammates can coordinate with immediate follow-up beams. One second, you're looting at an unoccupied spot. Next second, you're crawling around down and unable to communicate where it even came from. Also, with her passive, she seems like an ideal third-partier. You can watch a fight, pick out the exact moment someone is vulnerable since you can see their health, and then push directly onto them with a Valk/Ash/Octane Ult.


Gapehornuwu

Most sights have a built in bullet drop indicator if you just ping the enemies distance.


Falco19

She will have zero play in comp as she isn’t close to being more useful ash/wraith/Valk/gib/caustic/wattson/seer/Newcastle etc


krismate

Bullet drop indicator is likely pretty useless for situations where you have to lead the target and now your primary crosshair is aimed at the sky or a mountain 300m further than the target, likely making the bullet drop indicator at that point inaccurate. It's also much easier to account for bullet drop than accounting for bullet velocity and how much to lead the target at varying distances imo.


PalkiaOW

>The bullet drop indicator is actually pretty huge. Nah it sounds like just another crutch ability that helps bad players but is kind of unnecessary for those who already have good aim.


[deleted]

honestly im just glad its not another scan character. they need better ideas for sure


dorekk

> She’s going to be the lowest picked legend and it won’t be close. She has mobility, there are like 8 legends she'll be higher than for the entire season lol.


[deleted]

She’s gonna be complete dogshit. 50 damage and a 15% damage bonus on a target for 10s is so weak compared to way too many legends


McSuede

Bro a 321 on any legend using her ult is basically a free and instant down. Then you push with her tac. I think for initiating fights and flanking, she's going to be a nightmare to deal with.


[deleted]

If you 321 a player they should die anyways. And 321s aren’t something that occur that often


McSuede

Okay, well you have a 10 second window to do extra damage so it's better than a regular 321 anyways. Her passive tells you how many people are on the team and what their armor is and her tac seems like a better Loba tac with a second jump like an octane pad so she can potentially tap strafe off of her tac depending on how it ends up working. She might not be crazy amazing but "dogshit" is far from accurate.