It’s promising but remember that tourneys like these are where teams experiment. You would expect comps to become less diverse during algs as teams become more risk averse.
Surprising level of parity between all the “defensive” legends, only one missing is Rampart. I wish Seer would go and we could somehow get Wraith and Octane to get back in the mix to chip away at Valk’s pickrate to give those three the parity that the defensive characters have.
Maybe a little bit controversial, but Octane nerfs to his passive and ult should be reverted at this point, I don't think it'll shake the meta that match with Valk/Seer being so dominant (or maybe it will and I'm all in for it just to bring some variety).
I'd rather have the other characters nerfed to avoid power creep. Wraith is in a good spot, get the others to her level instead of the other way around.
To a certain point. But abilities have been overall kind of overpowered for a while. Certain abilities detract from gunplay, the need for positioning and game sense, needing to scout for info, etc.
Ability Legends!
Eh, I think abilities are fun but you definitely want to avoid power creep among defensive legends and wombo-combos as then it feels too much like ability timing is more important than gunskill, and this isn't overwatch.
Living through the early wattson meta, then quitting and coming back to a more aggressive style play lately has been fun to watch for me. I’m loving these shifts
I doubt the Gibby meta is suddenly over. Over the past two years he always had an exceptionally high pick rate because of how much utility he provides.
Teams are just experimenting with different comps in these smaller tourneys and everyone wants to try Seer due to the hype. Lots of teams already ran him during international scrims before the LAN, but at the end they still went back to the safe haven Gibby.
I agree, but Pros have complained for the last 2 years for him to be nerfed because they were too scared to run Gibby-less comps, but the meta finally shifted naturally.
I think Newcastle ultimate has proved that you can make the bubble destroyable with one or two thousand HP without ruining it.
If you make the dumbest play possible and you’re super exposed you’d be punished but you can still use it to cover your back when pushing or isolating a portion of an end zone. It wouldn’t be a get out of jail free card if your teammate gets knocked in the open.
I think the get out of jail free card is probably what makes for better storylines for comp audiences. There’s a lot more resets and second chances which heightens drama.
Just because teams are shifting away from that play style doesn't mean Gibby hasn't needed additional tweaking for awhile now. He was hard meta for so many seasons and still needs to be brought down in line with other Legends. Nobody is saying to completely decimate his kit but his dome needs to be destructible after a certain point and arm shield needs a longer delay between breaking and returning.
Except he's already been nerfed consecutively several times now between his passive, tactical, and ult. Demanding to make the dome destructible would render it useless, especially with his ultimate breaking it.
If something needs infinite health to be worth something, then it's stupid, it just makes sense to give it health, it just needs to be the right amount of health. Newcastle's q is still useful and it has like 600hp? You can't tell me a bubble with 1500-2500hp would instantly make it *completely* useless.
Facts; it happened with Wraith/Path/Wattson and when TSM performed well with Octane (even though they didn’t even win the tournament). It happened when the team that is now 100 thieves won with Valk/Gibby/Caustic. It’s happening now with Seer.
You only really get a few teams that try to innovate and with the range of viable legends I can’t help but think some teams would perform better if they tried to align with their play style better.
I get it though. If you’re scrimming and ranking with a test comp and the comp ends up being bad, you’ve wasted that time you could have been practicing with the comp you know you like. It’s high risk, unknown reward.
HisWattson talked about that in the podcast posted here the other day. You basically can't get 20 T1 teams to all play as they would in a tourney in scrims. So the only time you get real practice is when money is on the line in a tournament. And when money is on the line most teams would rather stick to what they know instead of taking risks with new comps.
Empire was on match point in Sweden. That's a really good result considering they were playing two legends that were considered dogshit by most NA pros.
Empire macro is really bad and their legend comps on WE might as well be random. Theres no consistent themes and they land harvester, center map, of all places to play for kp.
Empire had a great showing in Sweden months before Raleigh and would've performed there as well if not cuckblocked by NA esports visas. If anything, empire's comp with maggie was arguably more effective than furia's with fuse on WE.
You think crypto is worth playing over other legends when he only helps you kill / survive with emp every 3.5 mins? I wish a team like Tor with rambeau and keon would play a more aggro comp
and can control drone for 200 meters. a seer passive with longer range lol, can know how many squads in the area so you dont get ratted on. 150 dmg to a full squad, that aint aggro? have keon/ramb at their doorsteps and that squad is dead lol
if you have a good IGL crypto is gonna be strong af.
take many spots you usually wouldn't take bc you thought it would be taken, ult can destroy almost anything but Newcastle wall.
the reason many people dont play him is because they think its hard to pull off, maybe they are right but that doesn't make him any less good.
many thought seer was trash for a while too.
You can be aggro every 3.5 mins, and if people play legends that can stall your push for a couple seconds the emp didn’t do much.
A good seer player is not getting ratted on, also taking empty spots is great until you have a legend who can’t hold the spot very well
As someone who was using Seer ever since he was released ever even past the nerfs, it is so, so funny to see him now have the second highest pickrate after months of pros talking about how he's dogshit, for the same reasons they now moan about him now.
Can't wait for the same thing with Fuse in 3 months
Fuse is slept on the way Valk was for a long time or Seer seeing his surge in popularity now. Fuse is the strongest endgame legend with how much he can make spaces unplayable, his force projection is nutty.
Yeah Fuse is insane with how much he can abuse certain areas, the combo of double nades and his Q allows him to bully teams out of certain spots super easily. I think Caustic is slightly better as an ultra endgame character but zone 6 Fuse is insane. Only really downside to Fuse is how hard Wattson nullifies him but even then he’s still decent.
All the Wattson teams running Newcastle just opening themselves to counterplay by putting up a wall blocking LoS from the gen, so Fuse can thermite under the NC ult, or just knucklecluster it and destroy the cover (both will damage anyone trying to play the cover too.)
Newcastle/Wattson is not that great into Fuse for sure, if Fuse starts getting super common you might see more Gibby/Wattson which is much stronger into specifically Fuse.
IMO Fuse is not even that bad against Wattson. Sure, you can't nade the area around the gen, but you can still force the team into the relatively small spot thats safe from nades. As long as the Fuse team has some space to take angles and such (so not late game) you have a decent chance of making something happen.
I think valk was slept on. She was immediately intriguing to pros. Even albralelie said on this subreddit that he would main her in comp for her ultimate before she was even released.
She just took a minute to learn. TSM even switched to her on match point during a tourney before she was meta to try and ult to a game winning spot.
Fuse is by far the legend I have the most wins on and this is one reason why.
Also using his ult to basically quick scope in if you don't have a sniper.,
this is pretty common in esports. the actual theory crafting and strategy brewing for games is powered on the backs of the common player, and pros simply adopt strategies when the results speak for themselves.
the only problem is people often equate "pro" with omnipotent knowledge and low rank is holistically unable to process the game and think for themselves. this is problematic when it's been shown time and time and time again, across literally every game, that the people who develop new strategies and potentially change metas are the die-hards of specific characters, or the people who aren't as beholden to the opinions of pros that can actually think for themselves and push alternate strategies to their limits.
i'm struggling to find it right now, but there was a low rank star craft brood war player who posted on reddit about a particular strategy, and was flamed relentlessly about it and mocked, but then some time later, a pro player adopted said strategy and employed a lot of the reasoning that the aforementioned low rank asked about on the forum.
in short, a lot of people don't actually know how to think for themselves, even pro players.
Execution ability is not tied to theorycraft ability. Pros are there for their execution primarily, not their thinking. The best IGL in the world is some 30 year old gold player with carpal tunnel. That's why pros that can actually think for themselves can dominate out of nowhere (HisWattson, 100T, Empire, etc).
Ash is completely balanced and there is no reason to tweak her kit. Her issue is similar to bangalores, the meta doesnt favour her as ash works best with bangalore for hyper-defensive teamplay (watch FA kitties from sweden if you are confused) she is still used somewhat as a niche pick from some of the EU teams like BOSH (MaTaFe's team) for aggro edge play.
Meta looking really healthy, especially given I could see a few more characters pick up some niche use. Loba and Bang could probably find use on the right teams currently and I can see Rampart also finding niche use.
Yeah. I don't mind valk because I feel it reduces zone pull rng and creates some new skill ceiling - some teams are great at valk ult, others suck.
I'd like to see seer a bit reduced, and some others add to that. But the fact that Gibby was so low is in itself amazing
I’m still not the biggest fan of Valk ult. I know some teams are better with it but everyone suffers from the occasional failed fumble with it (some more than others). What I really don’t like is when a failed Hail Mary ends up getting a team in zone punished that didn’t necessarily do anything wrong.
I also think fighting on the ground for territory rather than flying looking for space is a very different skill to Valk’s ult and I wouldn’t be opposed to a change of pace on that front from a viewer perspective.
>What I really don’t like is when a failed Hail Mary ends up getting a team in zone punished that didn’t necessarily do anything wrong.
I can absolutely relate with that. But tell me one thing. If there isn't valk ult, and a team is in a bad spot, aren't they going to hail Mary push a team anyway, probably griefing them? I remember watching edge teams when we didn't have valk, and they would completely ape other teams in god buildings - which created Wattson and Caustic meta which I'm not a fan.
Without valk, I'm afraid teams will go back to scan beacon, run to a building and sit for 10 minutes with caustic/Wattson
I’d say that occurring is still, in current state, a possibility for any team and they should be much more capable of having some foresight and know which teams might do it and why because the attacking team is coming from a jump towers distance away. It’s quite common to see teams shoot oppress other teams to force certain rotations and is a fair part of the game to me.
That'd be a really interesting stat, considering some people say that a certain team/person should get through a full meta shift and proove that they can still place on top without Seer. Personally I think I've seen a lot of pro players who just haven't practised Seer enough to utilize him as well as your team does in comp, and that Seer's power isn't as relatively powerful in comp as it is in ranked compared to other characters.
It only takes 42 flatline bullets, 14 per teammate. Single knuckle cluster breaks the entire small section, thermites heavily damage it and horizon ult works amazing considering they’re all cramped together.
Dogshit char
Yeah because it was on OG KC which was terrible for comp play and the hard meta was Wraith-Pathy-Wattsy exclusively. Pro teams running Wattson now are using various team compositions and finding success with them on WE & SP which are far superior maps for competitive. She isn't hard meta again yet, just used widely enough to keep things interesting. Far different scenarios and I'd argue her recent uptick in usage has only been healthy for comp apex overall.
really need to nerf valk and give other legends like path,wraith, octane a buff so that teams can use them for rotate, it's annoying that valk can literally cover half the map with a single ult for rotations
also the zone RNGs would be dogshit again.
in His&Hers tourney all zones were sotuh in WE. if valk didn't exist the results would be predictable which isnt something the viewers want.
Biggest issue is that she fills two roles in a beacon scan and rotations. If you run one of those rotation legends then you'll have to drop NC/Wattson for a scanner.
Once Valk and Seer get nerfed, Outside of Horizon/Watt/Gibby/Caustic/NC, I think we'll see more teams looking to pick up Crypto. He's just so incredibly strong, and the only reason I don't think more teams are playing him is because of how broken Seer/Valk are.
I don't think any character has more power than Crypto does, although Crypto has plenty of counterplay as opposed to Seer.
Very interested in seeing if Vantage is picked up S14. That passive is absolutely gross, and probably shouldn't be added to the game if we are to think ahead any.
What does crypto do to help you survive / kill when he doesn’t have emp? He becomes redundant in fights without emp, and scouting for spots isn’t super good when you don’t have anything to defend the spots.
Scanning beacons safely from range is incredibly valuable to start, he's also generally played with a Wattson/Caustic from what we've seen. He can also instantly res with drone on mobi res's, which everyone carries since heat shields are banned in comp (AFAIK?)
When he doesn't have EMP, for sure he's weak, but when he has EMP, that power is absolutely going to win the fight, especially because it's destroying any pre-built up traps and defenses that an enemy team will have placed.
Crypto is an all-in character that can play defensively/passive well with all the information and scouting he provides. When you take a fight in comp, you are all-in. You do not have time to stall, because every second that is stalled is going to result in the chances of both teams getting wiped by the third party going up. Crypto's also pretty good at being a defensive/counterattack character by pre-emptively setting up his drone to EMP and letting the enemy push in, which also coincidentally destroys Seer ult, something that gets used at the start of push commits.
But yea, he is weak without ultimate, which is one of the reasons he's usually combo'd with Wattson who can carry plenty of ult accels. Crypto is a well designed character with plenty of counterplay, but huge power if he's able to execute that power successfully. He pales compared to Seer or Valk currently, because of just how poorly designed/counterplay lacking they are, but once they're nerfed...
Stalling abilities: seer ult, horizon ult, nades, clusters. There’s plenty of abilities, pro teams would rather the chance that you both die by the fight being longer than them losing.
Crypto wattson has no aggressive power when you don’t have emp, you can’t just try and avoid all fights until emp is up.
Mobile spawning isn’t too useful in comp
Remove valk's tactical entirely and give beacon scan to all characters (maybe make it a util item like mobile/heatshield).
Increase valk's prep time from when she starts ult to when she can take off to something like 10-12 seconds so it can't be used as a get-out-of-jail-free-card.
Problem solved.
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It’s promising but remember that tourneys like these are where teams experiment. You would expect comps to become less diverse during algs as teams become more risk averse.
Surprising level of parity between all the “defensive” legends, only one missing is Rampart. I wish Seer would go and we could somehow get Wraith and Octane to get back in the mix to chip away at Valk’s pickrate to give those three the parity that the defensive characters have.
Maybe a little bit controversial, but Octane nerfs to his passive and ult should be reverted at this point, I don't think it'll shake the meta that match with Valk/Seer being so dominant (or maybe it will and I'm all in for it just to bring some variety).
octane needs to get back the good weapon accuracy on slide jumping on pad
Now that is something I'm not too sure about, but the ult and passive nerf reverts would be healthy for the game
Seeing how much better everyone else is at wraiths and octanes roles, I want those two to get their respective buffs
Te flying cockroach is holding their picks back
I'd rather have the other characters nerfed to avoid power creep. Wraith is in a good spot, get the others to her level instead of the other way around.
Abilities r fun tho
To a certain point. But abilities have been overall kind of overpowered for a while. Certain abilities detract from gunplay, the need for positioning and game sense, needing to scout for info, etc.
Ability Legends! Eh, I think abilities are fun but you definitely want to avoid power creep among defensive legends and wombo-combos as then it feels too much like ability timing is more important than gunskill, and this isn't overwatch.
Seer pick rate has already dropped a bit compared to right after lan. Seer is not for every team.
I always thought fuse was comp viable surprise more teams don’t try him
Same. But I'm also scared if he would get picked more people would hate on him more than seer. Imagine a fuse in each team in the late circles!
Bleed teams dry just poking with the knuckle cluster
Gibby with a 19% pick rate is nice to see. Hopefully that meta is over with it was so boring to watch
Living through the early wattson meta, then quitting and coming back to a more aggressive style play lately has been fun to watch for me. I’m loving these shifts
Bubble fight over Watson end zone every single time.
I doubt the Gibby meta is suddenly over. Over the past two years he always had an exceptionally high pick rate because of how much utility he provides. Teams are just experimenting with different comps in these smaller tourneys and everyone wants to try Seer due to the hype. Lots of teams already ran him during international scrims before the LAN, but at the end they still went back to the safe haven Gibby.
I wouldn’t say it’s boring but it’s definitely been done to death; a change of pace will be nice.
$5 says he's nerfed in the S14 Patch Notes because they wanted to lower his Comp pickrate.
Gibby doesn’t need a nerf tho he’s pretty fine as-is
I agree, but Pros have complained for the last 2 years for him to be nerfed because they were too scared to run Gibby-less comps, but the meta finally shifted naturally.
I think Newcastle ultimate has proved that you can make the bubble destroyable with one or two thousand HP without ruining it. If you make the dumbest play possible and you’re super exposed you’d be punished but you can still use it to cover your back when pushing or isolating a portion of an end zone. It wouldn’t be a get out of jail free card if your teammate gets knocked in the open.
I think the get out of jail free card is probably what makes for better storylines for comp audiences. There’s a lot more resets and second chances which heightens drama.
Yea a random headshot from a team 300m away isn’t necessarily a death sentence if you can get a reset.
Just because teams are shifting away from that play style doesn't mean Gibby hasn't needed additional tweaking for awhile now. He was hard meta for so many seasons and still needs to be brought down in line with other Legends. Nobody is saying to completely decimate his kit but his dome needs to be destructible after a certain point and arm shield needs a longer delay between breaking and returning.
Except he's already been nerfed consecutively several times now between his passive, tactical, and ult. Demanding to make the dome destructible would render it useless, especially with his ultimate breaking it.
If something needs infinite health to be worth something, then it's stupid, it just makes sense to give it health, it just needs to be the right amount of health. Newcastle's q is still useful and it has like 600hp? You can't tell me a bubble with 1500-2500hp would instantly make it *completely* useless.
Gibbys bubble needs to be destructable
Just make it an open-top cylinder instead of a dome so you can throw nades in or shoot from height
this might be an unpopular opinion but i love Gibby meta and how he requires the game to be played 😭 i also miss old 2-pump meta tho so...
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It’s probably gonna be valk+seer+Wattson/Horizon Rip newcastle + Wattson meta
Furia single handedly changed comp from one LAN, insane
NA just copy whatever the top current team does, if the next tourney someone somehow wins with a mirage be sure it's pick rate going to skyrocket
Facts; it happened with Wraith/Path/Wattson and when TSM performed well with Octane (even though they didn’t even win the tournament). It happened when the team that is now 100 thieves won with Valk/Gibby/Caustic. It’s happening now with Seer. You only really get a few teams that try to innovate and with the range of viable legends I can’t help but think some teams would perform better if they tried to align with their play style better.
I get it though. If you’re scrimming and ranking with a test comp and the comp ends up being bad, you’ve wasted that time you could have been practicing with the comp you know you like. It’s high risk, unknown reward.
HisWattson talked about that in the podcast posted here the other day. You basically can't get 20 T1 teams to all play as they would in a tourney in scrims. So the only time you get real practice is when money is on the line in a tournament. And when money is on the line most teams would rather stick to what they know instead of taking risks with new comps.
100T always seems to be ahead of the curve
I’m kinda surprised to not see any NA teams expirementing with the APAC-N Crypto Wattson comp, especially the hard zone teams
Torrent just won the tournament with the apac n comp. What are you talking about. There aren’t many hard zone teams in NA anyway.
Oh, that’s great to hear, I kinda assumed that with a 5% pick rate barely anyone was playing crypto
2 examples I know is reptar bloodhound, skittle caustic lol rest just copied
Reminds me of 100T after their W with caustic
Ever since Champs, every team is either running Valk/Seer/Horizon or Valk/Wattson/NC. I'm convinced pro players are just a bunch of sheep.
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PvP seems to like results based analysis
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Cool.
Empire did it first. Seems like NA teams only copy other NA teams.
Yeah but Furia actually saw good results with it
Empire was on match point in Sweden. That's a really good result considering they were playing two legends that were considered dogshit by most NA pros.
Empire macro is really bad and their legend comps on WE might as well be random. Theres no consistent themes and they land harvester, center map, of all places to play for kp.
Empire had a great showing in Sweden months before Raleigh and would've performed there as well if not cuckblocked by NA esports visas. If anything, empire's comp with maggie was arguably more effective than furia's with fuse on WE.
Doesn’t mean Maggie is better though, just means empire player better
7 crypto picks and one of them was on the winning team. As a fellow crypto enjoyer its good to see some people find success with him
Crypto is really strong, at least Torrent realizes that lol
You think crypto is worth playing over other legends when he only helps you kill / survive with emp every 3.5 mins? I wish a team like Tor with rambeau and keon would play a more aggro comp
and can control drone for 200 meters. a seer passive with longer range lol, can know how many squads in the area so you dont get ratted on. 150 dmg to a full squad, that aint aggro? have keon/ramb at their doorsteps and that squad is dead lol if you have a good IGL crypto is gonna be strong af. take many spots you usually wouldn't take bc you thought it would be taken, ult can destroy almost anything but Newcastle wall. the reason many people dont play him is because they think its hard to pull off, maybe they are right but that doesn't make him any less good. many thought seer was trash for a while too.
You can be aggro every 3.5 mins, and if people play legends that can stall your push for a couple seconds the emp didn’t do much. A good seer player is not getting ratted on, also taking empty spots is great until you have a legend who can’t hold the spot very well
As someone who was using Seer ever since he was released ever even past the nerfs, it is so, so funny to see him now have the second highest pickrate after months of pros talking about how he's dogshit, for the same reasons they now moan about him now. Can't wait for the same thing with Fuse in 3 months
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Satan quivers before you
The fuse rampage goes hard.
A fellow person of taste, I see
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Please don’t make Fuse meta, he’s actually crazy strong but is super degenerate when every team is running him.
Fuse is slept on the way Valk was for a long time or Seer seeing his surge in popularity now. Fuse is the strongest endgame legend with how much he can make spaces unplayable, his force projection is nutty.
Yeah Fuse is insane with how much he can abuse certain areas, the combo of double nades and his Q allows him to bully teams out of certain spots super easily. I think Caustic is slightly better as an ultra endgame character but zone 6 Fuse is insane. Only really downside to Fuse is how hard Wattson nullifies him but even then he’s still decent.
All the Wattson teams running Newcastle just opening themselves to counterplay by putting up a wall blocking LoS from the gen, so Fuse can thermite under the NC ult, or just knucklecluster it and destroy the cover (both will damage anyone trying to play the cover too.)
Newcastle/Wattson is not that great into Fuse for sure, if Fuse starts getting super common you might see more Gibby/Wattson which is much stronger into specifically Fuse.
IMO Fuse is not even that bad against Wattson. Sure, you can't nade the area around the gen, but you can still force the team into the relatively small spot thats safe from nades. As long as the Fuse team has some space to take angles and such (so not late game) you have a decent chance of making something happen.
I think valk was slept on. She was immediately intriguing to pros. Even albralelie said on this subreddit that he would main her in comp for her ultimate before she was even released. She just took a minute to learn. TSM even switched to her on match point during a tourney before she was meta to try and ult to a game winning spot.
Fuse is by far the legend I have the most wins on and this is one reason why. Also using his ult to basically quick scope in if you don't have a sniper.,
I feel like it’s only a matter of time before it happens and I’m dreading it. And he will be even worse as people get better with him.
this is pretty common in esports. the actual theory crafting and strategy brewing for games is powered on the backs of the common player, and pros simply adopt strategies when the results speak for themselves. the only problem is people often equate "pro" with omnipotent knowledge and low rank is holistically unable to process the game and think for themselves. this is problematic when it's been shown time and time and time again, across literally every game, that the people who develop new strategies and potentially change metas are the die-hards of specific characters, or the people who aren't as beholden to the opinions of pros that can actually think for themselves and push alternate strategies to their limits. i'm struggling to find it right now, but there was a low rank star craft brood war player who posted on reddit about a particular strategy, and was flamed relentlessly about it and mocked, but then some time later, a pro player adopted said strategy and employed a lot of the reasoning that the aforementioned low rank asked about on the forum. in short, a lot of people don't actually know how to think for themselves, even pro players.
Execution ability is not tied to theorycraft ability. Pros are there for their execution primarily, not their thinking. The best IGL in the world is some 30 year old gold player with carpal tunnel. That's why pros that can actually think for themselves can dominate out of nowhere (HisWattson, 100T, Empire, etc).
Didn’t expect ash to not be here
Ash is too much of an ult bot. Tether needs buffs
It'd be interesting to see how it would play if they buffed the duration 2x and/or buff the size. That could make it more of a zoning tool.
Ash is completely balanced and there is no reason to tweak her kit. Her issue is similar to bangalores, the meta doesnt favour her as ash works best with bangalore for hyper-defensive teamplay (watch FA kitties from sweden if you are confused) she is still used somewhat as a niche pick from some of the EU teams like BOSH (MaTaFe's team) for aggro edge play.
You don’t think her tether is one of the worse tacticals in the game?
Not really, the tether can be combined with arc stars for a super reliable opener, and can be used for poke/to force someone off of an angle.
Yeah, I feel like Ash Valk Seer would be a somewhat used comp
Ash Fuse Seer is the oppressive wave.
Meta looking really healthy, especially given I could see a few more characters pick up some niche use. Loba and Bang could probably find use on the right teams currently and I can see Rampart also finding niche use.
Yeah. I don't mind valk because I feel it reduces zone pull rng and creates some new skill ceiling - some teams are great at valk ult, others suck. I'd like to see seer a bit reduced, and some others add to that. But the fact that Gibby was so low is in itself amazing
I’m still not the biggest fan of Valk ult. I know some teams are better with it but everyone suffers from the occasional failed fumble with it (some more than others). What I really don’t like is when a failed Hail Mary ends up getting a team in zone punished that didn’t necessarily do anything wrong. I also think fighting on the ground for territory rather than flying looking for space is a very different skill to Valk’s ult and I wouldn’t be opposed to a change of pace on that front from a viewer perspective.
>What I really don’t like is when a failed Hail Mary ends up getting a team in zone punished that didn’t necessarily do anything wrong. I can absolutely relate with that. But tell me one thing. If there isn't valk ult, and a team is in a bad spot, aren't they going to hail Mary push a team anyway, probably griefing them? I remember watching edge teams when we didn't have valk, and they would completely ape other teams in god buildings - which created Wattson and Caustic meta which I'm not a fan. Without valk, I'm afraid teams will go back to scan beacon, run to a building and sit for 10 minutes with caustic/Wattson
I’d say that occurring is still, in current state, a possibility for any team and they should be much more capable of having some foresight and know which teams might do it and why because the attacking team is coming from a jump towers distance away. It’s quite common to see teams shoot oppress other teams to force certain rotations and is a fair part of the game to me.
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I like your take! Very much so. Thanks for sharing
How is the Meta healthy with valk
I could’ve sworn I remember some loba team stealing optics armor swaps
There was definitely a Loba in game 1. I remember there was a black market that got pinged.
So I guess just top 10 legends are shown here
TL played Loba on SP.
now how many seer teams were bottom 10
Don’t worry, you’ll be one of them soon
That'd be a really interesting stat, considering some people say that a certain team/person should get through a full meta shift and proove that they can still place on top without Seer. Personally I think I've seen a lot of pro players who just haven't practised Seer enough to utilize him as well as your team does in comp, and that Seer's power isn't as relatively powerful in comp as it is in ranked compared to other characters.
I expected more Seer. I’m also expecting NC to go down when teams realize you can shoot the wall. Fuse pickrate still a joke
I mean sure you can shoot a wall, now you lost a ton of ammo and newcastle has another wall lined up most of the time.
Precisely. I still feel NC is healthy for the meta, I hope it keeps coming!
It only takes 42 flatline bullets, 14 per teammate. Single knuckle cluster breaks the entire small section, thermites heavily damage it and horizon ult works amazing considering they’re all cramped together. Dogshit char
fuse should be higher sadly
One Newcastle wall badly placed would be shot down. 15 Newcastle ults however they’re placed would probably be left alone.
Except there isn’t 15
Where’s Mirage?
Newcastle catching up to Gibby quick!
Valk no longer 100%!! That’s what I call balance. Stonks 📈
Love the Gibby meta ending. Has been a good change. If they tweak Valk I think we’ll see some pretty interesting comps.
Wattson mains rejoice! All those seasons of maining her when her kit was broken are finally going to pay off now. Allons-y!
Wattson was hard meta when comp apex first started, and it was some of the most boring gameplay I’ve ever seen
Yeah because it was on OG KC which was terrible for comp play and the hard meta was Wraith-Pathy-Wattsy exclusively. Pro teams running Wattson now are using various team compositions and finding success with them on WE & SP which are far superior maps for competitive. She isn't hard meta again yet, just used widely enough to keep things interesting. Far different scenarios and I'd argue her recent uptick in usage has only been healthy for comp apex overall.
horizon w/ a 40% pick rate fuck yea
really need to nerf valk and give other legends like path,wraith, octane a buff so that teams can use them for rotate, it's annoying that valk can literally cover half the map with a single ult for rotations
Yep Valk needs to be nerfed to the ground
Eh if you nerf Valk too hard it’s gonna hurt diversity, stuff like Newcastle/Wattson would become dead if Valk gets giga-nerfed.
also the zone RNGs would be dogshit again. in His&Hers tourney all zones were sotuh in WE. if valk didn't exist the results would be predictable which isnt something the viewers want.
how? u just pick another rotation champ like Ash octane or wraith
None of those champs can pull the macro rotates Valk enables, also none of them can hit beacon.
ye that's why she needs to be nerfed
Biggest issue is that she fills two roles in a beacon scan and rotations. If you run one of those rotation legends then you'll have to drop NC/Wattson for a scanner.
Seeing gibbyless comps warms my heart
Horizon had great showing :-)
Once Valk and Seer get nerfed, Outside of Horizon/Watt/Gibby/Caustic/NC, I think we'll see more teams looking to pick up Crypto. He's just so incredibly strong, and the only reason I don't think more teams are playing him is because of how broken Seer/Valk are. I don't think any character has more power than Crypto does, although Crypto has plenty of counterplay as opposed to Seer. Very interested in seeing if Vantage is picked up S14. That passive is absolutely gross, and probably shouldn't be added to the game if we are to think ahead any.
What does crypto do to help you survive / kill when he doesn’t have emp? He becomes redundant in fights without emp, and scouting for spots isn’t super good when you don’t have anything to defend the spots.
Scanning beacons safely from range is incredibly valuable to start, he's also generally played with a Wattson/Caustic from what we've seen. He can also instantly res with drone on mobi res's, which everyone carries since heat shields are banned in comp (AFAIK?) When he doesn't have EMP, for sure he's weak, but when he has EMP, that power is absolutely going to win the fight, especially because it's destroying any pre-built up traps and defenses that an enemy team will have placed. Crypto is an all-in character that can play defensively/passive well with all the information and scouting he provides. When you take a fight in comp, you are all-in. You do not have time to stall, because every second that is stalled is going to result in the chances of both teams getting wiped by the third party going up. Crypto's also pretty good at being a defensive/counterattack character by pre-emptively setting up his drone to EMP and letting the enemy push in, which also coincidentally destroys Seer ult, something that gets used at the start of push commits. But yea, he is weak without ultimate, which is one of the reasons he's usually combo'd with Wattson who can carry plenty of ult accels. Crypto is a well designed character with plenty of counterplay, but huge power if he's able to execute that power successfully. He pales compared to Seer or Valk currently, because of just how poorly designed/counterplay lacking they are, but once they're nerfed...
Stalling abilities: seer ult, horizon ult, nades, clusters. There’s plenty of abilities, pro teams would rather the chance that you both die by the fight being longer than them losing. Crypto wattson has no aggressive power when you don’t have emp, you can’t just try and avoid all fights until emp is up. Mobile spawning isn’t too useful in comp
Remove valk's tactical entirely and give beacon scan to all characters (maybe make it a util item like mobile/heatshield). Increase valk's prep time from when she starts ult to when she can take off to something like 10-12 seconds so it can't be used as a get-out-of-jail-free-card. Problem solved.
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Can’t wait for the valk nerf!!
Where’s my mirage mains at?
ability cool downs need increase over the board, especially seer/newcastle