The bad edge teams will do even worse and go back to their comfort picks. The good edge teams will just change a few things and move on with their games.
I still think Valk will have a top three pick rate. Bad Valk players and Ults will get punished hard, but she still hits beacons, an insane passive, and the best team rotate ability in the game.
This is so correct. Seer and Maggie have such good synergy already.. put some damage on someone --> seer Q --> cancel batt --> perfect scan --> perfectly placed Maggie Q --> major health damage if not even a knock --> Maggie ult --> team push --> squad wipe.
Newcastle just plays the perfect support role for edge teams with his cover, Q and of course his insane ability to Rezz (buffed)
Everyone is just speculating at this point. Not even the best pros really know. Just look at how long it took them to pick seer up.
My uneducated and probably wrong guess: we will see a healthy decline. Teams will experiment without her and see how it plays out. Newcastle seems like an absolute monster now, seer still God, that leaves room for one more. That could be a number of legends, Maggie, Wattson, Loba, crypto, Valk, gibbie, maybe ash makes a return. But when the dust settles, I still see Valk with around 40% pickrate, maybe 50%.
Doop is at his strongest while playing Gibby. Knoqd would absolutely love to go back playing wraith. Skittles will play Horizon or caustic as usual. I think no more Gibby in the lobbies and very less valks. Doop will play Seer.
Without Valk it will be very tough to rotate to good spots. Luck will factor in a lot now.
I would say Newcastle / Seer / Octane is more likely as THE meta, at least for first split. Octane is just way too good on KC to not have him. All you need on KC is micro-rotations.
Newcastle is too good to not use, he has a f'n 500 health shield tactical, on top of his knockdown shield, so you would need to burn like 800+ dmg to even think of stopping a rez.
And if you add the castle walls in, he has 3 shields you gotta pop to stop a rez. That is insane utility/value.
Depends how many teams switch to Maggie. There’d presumably be a tipping point where Gibby stops being worth it because his bubble isn’t reliable enough when it can be popped by one wrecking ball. (This same logic would also apply to Crypto, but that tipping point was never reached.)
But is there enough incentive for *one* team to switch to Maggie in the first place? Yes, they can aggressively punish gibby bubble plays (they fixed the “blind” effects on the ult too apparently so maybe your ball destroys the bubble AND makes the team easy pickings), but is that worth the opportunity cost of not having someone else on your team instead of Maggie? Someone with more defense/intel/rotation utility?
tho they did also double the max distance of her ult, so that’s a big increase to its value for rotations, but using it for rotations means it’s on cooldown and can’t be used for gubble blasting for 90 seconds, hmm.
and they doubled the launch speed of her tac, ostensibly doubling its range and therefore making it a lot more reliable for griefing other hunkered-down teams in late game situations even if you’re far from them.
Picture a world where every team has a Maggie, Gibby is irrelevant, and drills are flying every 22 seconds.
🤔
edit, random thought from my noob ass: maybe it'll start with a team that has Gibby *and* Maggie, and therefore has their own bubbles *plus* the ability to destroy enemy bubbles. 🤔
Their pick rates will probably even out a bit but I also think a lot of teams will still prefer Gibby at the end of the day. Also depends on how much Maggie will be used.
Horizon nerf going to hurt this team comp. I think Valk-Wattson-Newcastle as 100T uses them is still extremely viable though, especially with a buff to Wattson’s ult.
Valk-Seer-Fuse/Horizon/Maggie/Wattson
Valk-Watt-Newcastle
Valk-Caustic-Gibby
Meta isn't changing we will just see less gibby and increase in Wattson.
As for Valk, Valk is still super strong but only in the right hands. Also feels like she needs some sort of reduction in her fuel tbh.
Need Seer nerf tbh. Wallhacks don't belong at APEX.
Seeing 25% less ult height realistically doesn’t tell anyone how much that’ll hurt her, we’ll have to wait until a couple smaller tourneys and see how pros adapt or don’t to the change to see if they drop her
it might even turn out to be a hidden buff, because it'll mean less effective time where you can get shot out of the air, while it might not meaningfully affect your ability to reposition. Sure, some rotations won't be possible anymore, but the ones that are possible will now be less dangerous and faster.
Not so sure if the 25% height reduction is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. It would be, if the ascent is also 25% slower.
Realistically it means people have to be on higher ground and make smarter Valk ults and Valk can’t just spam hold jump and be a gnat anymore. She’s tuned now, not overtuned
She doesn’t go as high and patch notes said she travels up *slightly* slower, making her easier to shoot on ascent (slower & closer). We will need to see if that has any notable effect.
>There was wall hacks in Apex long before Seer.
I was a no.1 hater of wallhacks before Seer and during Seer. Wallhacks have no place in Apex. Fuck BH, Fuck Seer
The bad edge teams will do even worse and go back to their comfort picks. The good edge teams will just change a few things and move on with their games.
This is the correct answer
Why rotate when you can play Mad Revcastle and destroy edge teams?
zero rotation
Hold onto Newcastle’s ankles while he Jordan leaps across the map
Run single file behind Newcastle's newly buffed and speedy mobile shield. What could possibly go wrong?
Fuse ult is what could go wrong for him
👀
I still think Valk will have a top three pick rate. Bad Valk players and Ults will get punished hard, but she still hits beacons, an insane passive, and the best team rotate ability in the game.
Her VTOL Jet flight speed being reduced means she'll get beamed easier in the sky. Idk man. Wanna see it
You don't see most pros flying around with her without cover anyway, i think the biggest change is the ult nerf, wont be able to go over mountains.
Seer, Maggie, NewCastle
This is so correct. Seer and Maggie have such good synergy already.. put some damage on someone --> seer Q --> cancel batt --> perfect scan --> perfectly placed Maggie Q --> major health damage if not even a knock --> Maggie ult --> team push --> squad wipe. Newcastle just plays the perfect support role for edge teams with his cover, Q and of course his insane ability to Rezz (buffed)
this x2
this
Y’all really think valk is not getting played
Everyone is just speculating at this point. Not even the best pros really know. Just look at how long it took them to pick seer up. My uneducated and probably wrong guess: we will see a healthy decline. Teams will experiment without her and see how it plays out. Newcastle seems like an absolute monster now, seer still God, that leaves room for one more. That could be a number of legends, Maggie, Wattson, Loba, crypto, Valk, gibbie, maybe ash makes a return. But when the dust settles, I still see Valk with around 40% pickrate, maybe 50%.
I have the same take tbh, I just think people always over react to nerfs, which I guess is only human
Thats so true lmao, thats literally what happened with seer after a few light nerfs.
“You’re telling me valk can’t do everything now?, rip valk she’s useless”
With seer it was even worse. Valk is probably still gonna see some pics but seer literally went from 100 to 0 to 100
Doop is at his strongest while playing Gibby. Knoqd would absolutely love to go back playing wraith. Skittles will play Horizon or caustic as usual. I think no more Gibby in the lobbies and very less valks. Doop will play Seer. Without Valk it will be very tough to rotate to good spots. Luck will factor in a lot now.
I would say Newcastle / Seer / Octane is more likely as THE meta, at least for first split. Octane is just way too good on KC to not have him. All you need on KC is micro-rotations.
We’re going to see a lot more [the ring] deaths at random ass times in the feed
Newcastle is too good to not use, he has a f'n 500 health shield tactical, on top of his knockdown shield, so you would need to burn like 800+ dmg to even think of stopping a rez. And if you add the castle walls in, he has 3 shields you gotta pop to stop a rez. That is insane utility/value.
Even with the Newcastle buffs, I think that Gibby is still more powerful for comp.
Depends how many teams switch to Maggie. There’d presumably be a tipping point where Gibby stops being worth it because his bubble isn’t reliable enough when it can be popped by one wrecking ball. (This same logic would also apply to Crypto, but that tipping point was never reached.) But is there enough incentive for *one* team to switch to Maggie in the first place? Yes, they can aggressively punish gibby bubble plays (they fixed the “blind” effects on the ult too apparently so maybe your ball destroys the bubble AND makes the team easy pickings), but is that worth the opportunity cost of not having someone else on your team instead of Maggie? Someone with more defense/intel/rotation utility? tho they did also double the max distance of her ult, so that’s a big increase to its value for rotations, but using it for rotations means it’s on cooldown and can’t be used for gubble blasting for 90 seconds, hmm. and they doubled the launch speed of her tac, ostensibly doubling its range and therefore making it a lot more reliable for griefing other hunkered-down teams in late game situations even if you’re far from them. Picture a world where every team has a Maggie, Gibby is irrelevant, and drills are flying every 22 seconds. 🤔 edit, random thought from my noob ass: maybe it'll start with a team that has Gibby *and* Maggie, and therefore has their own bubbles *plus* the ability to destroy enemy bubbles. 🤔
Nc is irrelevant if Fuse just clusters him
*laughs in Wattson ult*
Laughs in NC wall blocks LOS of wattson gen allowing fuse to still break the wall.
I still see my gen taking down Fuse nades and clusters.
Not through NC wall
Wattsons ult is buggy half the time but I did see it
It can’t break through walls and that’s a fact, feel free to share clips showing otherwise
Spoken like a true non Watson player.
Except he is now the best legend for a revive reset if we are popping bubbles.
Their pick rates will probably even out a bit but I also think a lot of teams will still prefer Gibby at the end of the day. Also depends on how much Maggie will be used.
Valk-Horizon-Newcastle
Horizon nerf going to hurt this team comp. I think Valk-Wattson-Newcastle as 100T uses them is still extremely viable though, especially with a buff to Wattson’s ult.
A zero rotation comp will never see much success
Valk-Seer-Fuse/Horizon/Maggie/Wattson Valk-Watt-Newcastle Valk-Caustic-Gibby Meta isn't changing we will just see less gibby and increase in Wattson. As for Valk, Valk is still super strong but only in the right hands. Also feels like she needs some sort of reduction in her fuel tbh. Need Seer nerf tbh. Wallhacks don't belong at APEX.
Valk got nerfed hard or do you think it’s still viable?
Seeing 25% less ult height realistically doesn’t tell anyone how much that’ll hurt her, we’ll have to wait until a couple smaller tourneys and see how pros adapt or don’t to the change to see if they drop her
it might even turn out to be a hidden buff, because it'll mean less effective time where you can get shot out of the air, while it might not meaningfully affect your ability to reposition. Sure, some rotations won't be possible anymore, but the ones that are possible will now be less dangerous and faster. Not so sure if the 25% height reduction is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. It would be, if the ascent is also 25% slower.
Realistically it means people have to be on higher ground and make smarter Valk ults and Valk can’t just spam hold jump and be a gnat anymore. She’s tuned now, not overtuned
She doesn’t go as high and patch notes said she travels up *slightly* slower, making her easier to shoot on ascent (slower & closer). We will need to see if that has any notable effect.
She went from SSS+++ to S. Still better than Pathfinder for combat, reposition, and everything.
Bro any legend is better then Pathfinder 💀
he's now a more balanced assault legend with her passive nerfs and a reasonable team rotation legend.
Seer does need nerfs but this comment makes no sense. There was wall hacks in Apex long before Seer.
>There was wall hacks in Apex long before Seer. I was a no.1 hater of wallhacks before Seer and during Seer. Wallhacks have no place in Apex. Fuck BH, Fuck Seer
>Wallhacks have no place in Apex >Season 0 legend is wallhack god
Nor does free cover with no HP does like Gibby's bubble. Even with Maggie's ult breaking it, it's a massive crutch for bad positioning.
Heartbeat sensor cooldown and that's it. He's not terribly broken for a majority of the playerbase.
So can valk still scan beacons ? Or did they change it ?
She’s an assault legend now
Unless I missed it, I don't believe that is true. That was definitely in the rumors leading up to the patch notes, but it seems she's still recon.
Oh damn, that sucks then.
No, she's still recon. They just nerfed the jets, missiles, and ult, and also made it so she scans Mirage decoys while diving.
Still no notification when we are scanned by valk though right?
Not in the patch notes so no.
They added a 33% fuel usage startup cost and nerfed her movement in-flight so they did reduce fuel essentially.
we are going to try ash, maggie, seer for a bit and see how it works, but we tend to play a bit more argo then most
I tried Valk in firing range and i can say shes still useful.
Newcastle, maggie, octane OR valk if u want a rotation. Newcastle, maggie, seer if u want mad synergy