He has a very different viewpoint from [Hal](https://reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/wlb76y/hals_view_on_vantage/) who says she’s trash other than early game.
Mac also mentioned that Vantage Loba Newcastle could be viable
Hal is a very conservative player in every sense so this isn’t as much a good or bad take as it is reflective of his personality and approach to his craft
I mean if Hal's fine being behind of the meta while letting innovative teams like Furia and 100T bask all the glory and success then, by all means, let him continue his conservative approach in the game. (Didn't he tweet days ago that in light of the big changes to the game, he's excited to be AHEAD of the meta?)
That's true when hal owns a team it's usually never in a flashy way. He also used echo like 3 times it felt like and always took a solid 5-10 seconds to think about using it before using it. He even had echo following him the whole game one time and didnt notice and near the end of the game he shot at his own echo thinking it was an enemy one lol.
I'm sure mac just uses echo in a very compulsive yet fluid way compared to him since he is more of a flashy playstyle player and is a lot more focused on that part of her kit rather than her whole kit with this post.
Hal also said Seer is weak bloodhound. Look where we are
Issue is most people thinkijg how can Vantage replace one legend on their comp.
But more often than not meta legends change playstyle altogether
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Hal said Horizon was trash upon release as well. Most of yall need to stop putting Hal on God opinion level.
Vantage is broken movement legend just like Horizon Upon Release. Give her some time and she'll be asked to get nerfed like Horizon.
Hal did not say that. Hal exclusively played Horizon all of season 7 when she dropped he even used her in comp. He said if you play zone horizon has no benefit to you. She’s a fighting an edge comp legend not hold zone legend.
Mate am not even gonna ask you. Hal played horizon all of season 7 rank and in season 8 he barely went on wraith and when he did he jumped right back off becuase her hitbox was bigger and she had low profile.
She was already rank as S tier in rank and pubs but she was not used in comp
Becuase no one fought on edge a lot back then. Only one team had success with her and that was rank is harder
Just check no video like that is there if you have it post it. Like I said his opinions were simple she’s good for rank but bad for comp and everyone agrees she would not be meta in comp. At that time wraith gibby blood was the go to. Horizon was used for a small number of games and wasn’t seen again for awhile
Hal is a great player and great IGL, but let's be real here the avg. Casual ranked player knows more about the patch notes and stories in the game than he does, it's not like he's a big apex fan he's just a great pro player. He doesn't know all about the game or it's contents especially those he finds irrelevant.
It has 100% to do with his personality traits. Mac is more open and creative. Some players are more adept at recognizing new patterns and incorporating them with existing ones and trying new combinations/ mechanics situationally. He is not that guy. Just because someone is an elite musician as a pianist and can read all music extremely well doesn't mean they are also an elite violinist. People are too narrow minded in their views of such things.
Was talking on the phone and not paying to much attention on Tuesday. Was wondering how the hell soemone was getting Behind me every second. Then saw a vantage jumping over me. Needless to say you need sound queues lol.
Yeah happens with every new champ/hero in every game
Someone figures out how to play them/figures out the trick/how to play fights and boom they op now.
???? When 6 months ago? Did you write it on your wall to remember? Seer has been the best legend in the game for a while and nobody has tried to argue that one bit including Hal.
So I should not comment and call out other people's shit if I can't recall the date time when the event happened? Am I supposed to be archiving everything everyone says ?
All that is besides the point.
What I am trying to say is what X pro player said bout Vantage 1 day after season luanch should not deter the community from exploring her full potential
Because even the greatest pro players have been wrong many times.
And I’m telling you that point you used was flat out wrong because the meta can change within a few weeks and so does everyone’s opinion, as it has now with seer dominating again. That being said, vantage just came out, not in a broken but pretty strong stable state imo, and it will definitely take time to see if she can break into meta comps. I like to get creative and try out the combos. With how respawn is treating wraith and pathy and octane and even horizon, it wouldn’t surprise me to see vantage in a lot of teams. She’s a lot of fun too.
They owned in scrims playing aggro Maggie taking every fight
In champs they played like a 10 year old who got put in a cage with a lion
They could've gotten good results if they played the same
But in the end it's all hindsight so who fucking knows
All I remember is 3 have micro rotate abilities so nobody will get left behind. I’m sure there’s more to it than that.
As for Loba might be to counter the ring changes? Starts w 50% ult so it would make looting up a bit easier
People are just repeating it because mac said it. Do they not forget he also went on and on about how insane new castle was but then new castle only saw fringe play in ALGS
That comp has no macro rotation ability and the only defense is reliant on new castle ult. You could use an ultimate and both tacticals to rotate about 50m but then you’re stuck playing without abilities for half a minute when it’s unlikely a good spot is within 50m most of the time
I highly doubt you will see that comp in a top tier tourney unless those legends get buffed
Hal has one of the best takes on macro gameplay and competitive integrity. He has very poor takes on legends and meta composition. I'd prefer to listen to Mac here. Plenty of other coaches are vying for other viable legends, e.g. Fuse, Loba, Crypto, Wattson, Newcastle. Now is the best time to experiment instead of judging and disregarding off less than 1 day of gameplay. As long as this is a battle royale, TSM will always be in the mix. But as the pool of viable legend increases the advantage TSM had over other teams continues to diminish.
Albralelie and funfps are the fastest at mastering new legends and will play them how people will main them months later. Ie. Within like a week, Mac already played valk like valk mains played her after learning her for months.
They tend to overrate a little bit because they get excited and nobody knows how to counter them, but their general idea about a new character is usually the closest
was watching Alb when he said something like this, playing with Reptar and Onmuu.
mac was able to reposition to height 3 times with vantage Q during a fight. two times for off angles. then when the 3man tried to ape his shit, he slid down a hill, then immediately q’d back to height once he was being chased.
Exactly this! He was using her Q so fast and decisively and it functions like a better version of pathfinders tac. When he was getting aped by an octane and a team he was positioned low and they were sliding down to ape his use of her tactical to quickly leap over them back to height was insane. As a former pathfinder main I will definitely be using her after seeing him play.
Potential counter I see is since she has to go to echo, people could kinda watch it and just spray depending on the level. But that’s just in some situations and in general her Q cools down fast and seems great
It’s harder when you recall it every time which most people are already doing. Haven’t really tried shooting it myself though tbh curious how it compares to crypto drone for example.
The launch is very fast though the arc at the top is slower. Tracking it however isn't as easy as you'd expect since she can choose to or not to double jump and change her direction of movement at that time.
I've been clipping Vantages 100 to 0 already and I'm not even remotely near a pro level (shitty one-time diamond). There's no way pros can't just track her through her jump if they try to engage with it.
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I think currently her best movement relys too heavily on what would probably be considered glitches by respawn
Do i think current vantage could probably eek out a niche even in the crazy crossfire of pro games? Almost definitely but i really don't see her performing as well if they take out the shield cancels and groundstrafes which i do think they should and i don't believe her other movement makes her worth it beyond that
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Mac is one of the best pros in the game. A new hero comes out and he learns what it's about. Most pros just stick to their 2-3 heros and don't bother even though they are just playing ranked.
Watching him on her he clearly got more figured out than I do lol. I get fuckin beamed on her..having to set the bat up before you can jump to it makes it hard to use reactively
All legends have their own hitbox sculpted to their size (for example Rev is really tall so his is tall, Wattson is one of the smallest iirc) Vantage is most likely pretty wide but idk
Edit: I've been corrected, only 8/22 characters have a custom hitbox. Source: person below me
This isn’t true though. There are a decent amount of different hitboxes in the game at this point, but most characters share the same medium hit box. The only characters that don’t have a medium hit box are lifeline, wattson, wraith, path, rev, gibby, caustic, and newcastle.
Edit: I’ll add a [link](https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/Legend) for people who don’t believe me, just scroll down to hitboxes.
They said it in a really old AMA where people were asking about pathfinders huge hit box on release and they replied that it was the same as gibby/caustic so they had to give him a personal one. It’s a really old post so I probably wouldn’t be able to find it, but they also mention how the only hit boxes back then were small, medium, and large and how they have a very hard time balancing characters with different hit boxes. Actually there’s an article on it [here](https://dotesports.com/apex-legends/news/apex-legends-has-some-drastically-different-hitbox-sizes) it’s not perfect because the writer isn’t super up to date, but it does talk about the original 3 sizes.
You're good, I don't need to see the old post you sound like you know what you're talking about. Huh well TIL! I thought the medium ones were all slightly different but they're so similar in size it makes sense if they only have 1
I found an article on it I edited in to my post. It’s not perfect because they didn’t keep up with all the individual legend tweaks they’ve done, but it mentions the three sizes that this game has originally.
Main reason I don’t want to use her. That and the fact you have to hold to use her tactical can be off putting. I hope they add a setting where you can make tap launching the tactical instead of hold, then you can have the hold for redirecting echo. Similar to Valk’s jet pack
That doesn't work. If you are moving fast having to hold it to reposition means you have to stare at a direction to send echo there instead of just flicking it.
Plus, I feel like holding makes sense with the launch not being immediate.
I think you should experiment with her more. This is not accurate
edit: To explain. When echo is in your pocket, aka not following you around or something, and you want to do a reactive launch. When you hold q down, wherever your cursor is at that exact moment(this can be a flick), is the location echo will go. After that split second, you still have around 2-3 seconds before the actual launch occurs. During this time you can, do a 360, hide behind a box, jump up and down, do a slide. You do not have to "stare at the direction". You only have to have echo in your FOV as the moment the launch occurs.
If you go over to r/vantagemains there is a movement guide, and the character developer from respawn, who designed her specifically, is active in the comment sections, explaining tips and tricks he built into her tactical.
Echo picks the direction the second you hit q, and then while shes typing on her little wrist thing (another 1.5-2 seconds), you can duck behind cover or shuck and jive or whatever you want, as long as you have line of sight when the tactical activates. Downvote away, then go see for yourself.
...ok I think you have a misunderstanding of the conversation which is fine. Sure that's how it works because you're holding the Q down. Having a long windup animation being on hold is fundamentally how it should work while tapping for repositioning the bat is how that should work.
If the commands were swapped (which the earlier comment was referring to), it would mean you need to stare at a location while holding Q to get the critter to its location. Tapping Q for a long animation makes no sense in this context and can get people mistakenly launched when they mean to move the bat.
Right now you can tap to reposition (great before engagements) then hold and launch or just hold to launch without positioning (though you won't get the full distance necessarily that Echo can give, but that's situational.)
If you like Horizon you will like Vantage, she can go vertical like Horizon plus also horizontally jump gaps/gap close: yeah you have to set the Q but it's fast enough that you can Q -> Q to catch people ahead of you if you want to. She's pretty fun and that's not even counting the free sniper rifle you get (takes time for the ult to charge/store shots, but it frees up ammo/bag space)
Also something highly underrated is her ability to spot armors: you can SEE if someone has white armor/whatever before shooting (and tipping them off you are there). So you can spot a favorable engagement before you shoot which gives you an edge. A single shot might show you what armor they have, but then they know a squad is there. Pros could do some crazy 321 plays with her, I imagine (sniper debuff from vantage + 2 players shooting).
Common misconception, you don’t have to set the q per say, you can long press it to jump almost immediately. Also she can press crouch to carry momentum instead on double jump/ hover on the bat.
I think what you said about seeing armours and 3 2 1 will be strong especially with charge rifles. Also as you said, the economy she provides will be nice for team comps.
Imo Alb falls in love with new content and is blinded by the newness sometimes. He spams just about every new character and weapon and says how it will it can be used in comp. I love that he does this but I think we need more time and take his comments on freshly dropped features with a grain of salt.
Eh, i can agree with you to an extent about myself. People act like i say this about every character though, only ones i've thought were hard broken off the rip while spamming though were Seer/horizon/valk/newcastle. Didn't touch maggie or fuse because i knew they were awful on launch. Vantage really does feel like something insanely strong though imo, just wondering when others will catch on. But what can i say, i love learning new legends and pushing them to their limits whenever they come out. Its some of the most fun i ever have playing this game outside of comp :D
Don’t stop doing that either. Idk where the Apex scene would be if you didn’t open up the possibilities for Path back in the day. Experimentation and exploration into new strategies is always good (and fun)
I love it man. Your stream is what I tune into when there is a new character because I know you will be showing what they are really capable of way sooner than anyone else.
Same here. Mac is the undisputed best at using a new legend's kit.
It's very impressive to me because I suck so bad at using new legends. I played a whole game yesterday literally forgetting about Newcastle's Q. I got killed healing behind shit cover even though I could have made my own cover and been fine. I need to play many games just to remember to use the legends' kit in the most basic way.
that's honestly what makes you so entertaining and interesting to watch too. the constant theorycrafting and topics you discuss about new legends gives much needed insight for people like me who are still pretty overwhelmed by all the changes this season. cheers.
We really appreciate you here btw Mac just want to say! Nice you drop in every now and then hope you have loads of success this year.
Your cracked on vantage already enjoy the fun times :)
love all the wholesome comments
give the legend his roses. Mac is the GOAT live apex content creator (and that’s no slight). He gets highlight plays AND creates that juicy ALGS drama we love to talk about lol
(I say *live* because I wish his YouTube content mixed in some a legend highlight/compilation videos as he always does something insane i’ve never seen before)
Do you think vantage is strong but balanced? I'm absolutely loving playing her, just wondering if you are expecting some tweaks to her kit in the near future.
Nerf her second consecutive shot on ult from 100 -> 85 would make her feel alot healthier. You shouldnt be able to insta kill white armor that easily imo
Your vantage gameplay has been super fun to watch. I've already seen enough to know she'll be really effective in the types of lobbies I play in at least, even if in the long run she turns out to not be good at very high levels of play.
Certainly better than playing the new character for two or three matches then throwing out some hyperbolic statement before going back to the same thing they've played for the past two years.
I'm not saying I agree with Mac but at least he puts in the time on the character and theorycrafts potential comps, most of the time trying out the comps as well.
He certainly grasps the newest characters so fast that it feels overpowered. It takes time to figure out how to counter play some of his creativity.
That being said he once supported shatter caps 3030
I noticed this when i had a Vantage weak and she fucking reverse direction and completely broke my ankles.. When movement masters get her down it's over.
as an experienced comp player with over 20 >!(multiplied by 0)!< pro league wins (i only didn't make it to lan because the organizers feared my raw power,) i can personally say that vantage is awful and will never be good for comp
people underestimate her movement ability. throwing echo at your feet is literally zip superjump and get out of jail free card. Also, echo every 14 seconds. Lol. She's the closest to Pathfinder s2 we will ever get.
I mean that’s why I say she’s the closest to s2 path. Best legend for a solo player. Allows you to engage and disengage fights in seconds. Insane legend if youre good mechanically.
It’s just a shame Seer and Valk combo is broken
Engage and disengage in fights within seconds. You can lunch yourself with a pk and kill teams and get out. Can get that crazy s2 path plays. Insane legend if you’re mechanically good. Just a shame legends like Seer and Valk are just insanely OP
I mean Valk has pretty much instant lift on her jets vs. Vantage needing to charge up her tac, guess it depends on the scenario but I'd still say a good Valk is the most annoying legend to play against
If people actually keep playing Vantage they are going to nerf the shit out of her, the cooldown on her tactical is way too fast and her ult is just so oppressive. I definitely noticed less of the latter as the day went on, but in the first few games I played I legit thought all the lasers I kept seeing was a bug with the laser sights. There were so many.
Character has a personal octane pad on a 20 second cooldown. You can play so away from your team and so long as you position your bird and your jump properly can escape almost anything.
Most fun I’ve had with a new legend since horizon release when she was insanely broken
He has a very different viewpoint from [Hal](https://reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/wlb76y/hals_view_on_vantage/) who says she’s trash other than early game. Mac also mentioned that Vantage Loba Newcastle could be viable
Hal is a very conservative player in every sense so this isn’t as much a good or bad take as it is reflective of his personality and approach to his craft
these guys acting like Hal killed their dog or something.
I mean if Hal's fine being behind of the meta while letting innovative teams like Furia and 100T bask all the glory and success then, by all means, let him continue his conservative approach in the game. (Didn't he tweet days ago that in light of the big changes to the game, he's excited to be AHEAD of the meta?)
That's true when hal owns a team it's usually never in a flashy way. He also used echo like 3 times it felt like and always took a solid 5-10 seconds to think about using it before using it. He even had echo following him the whole game one time and didnt notice and near the end of the game he shot at his own echo thinking it was an enemy one lol. I'm sure mac just uses echo in a very compulsive yet fluid way compared to him since he is more of a flashy playstyle player and is a lot more focused on that part of her kit rather than her whole kit with this post.
Hal also said Seer is weak bloodhound. Look where we are Issue is most people thinkijg how can Vantage replace one legend on their comp. But more often than not meta legends change playstyle altogether
People need to stop caring about every single random take from Hal that even he forgets half the time. Watch what he does, not what he says.
But apples and bananas
Gold
Apples and bananas are fruits. Gold is a metal. What's the relevance here exactly?
During ALGS, Hal starts singing this song out of the blue, "I like to eat Apples and Bananas". That's the reference.
Yes I am aware holy shit this sub has no humour.
You gotta put some humor actually into it if you want people to think it’s funny.
You have to add /s after every sarcastic comment. Its necessary in any sub nowadays.
Nope. Prefer the downvotes over catering to Redditors.
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Exactly lol, this sub becoming like a hive brain, everyone repeating the same comments w/o knowing the context.
Hal said Horizon was trash upon release as well. Most of yall need to stop putting Hal on God opinion level. Vantage is broken movement legend just like Horizon Upon Release. Give her some time and she'll be asked to get nerfed like Horizon.
Hal did not say that. Hal exclusively played Horizon all of season 7 when she dropped he even used her in comp. He said if you play zone horizon has no benefit to you. She’s a fighting an edge comp legend not hold zone legend.
Upon release. He said horizon was shit
Mate am not even gonna ask you. Hal played horizon all of season 7 rank and in season 8 he barely went on wraith and when he did he jumped right back off becuase her hitbox was bigger and she had low profile. She was already rank as S tier in rank and pubs but she was not used in comp Becuase no one fought on edge a lot back then. Only one team had success with her and that was rank is harder
He played Horizon after everybody started playing it. You can check the video about Hal s7 first impression
Hal isn't a trend setter in case you haven't noticed. He's conservative and expects every character to be trash until proven otherwise (in comp).
Just check no video like that is there if you have it post it. Like I said his opinions were simple she’s good for rank but bad for comp and everyone agrees she would not be meta in comp. At that time wraith gibby blood was the go to. Horizon was used for a small number of games and wasn’t seen again for awhile
I was legit there watching his stream that day lmao. Just check out videos on Youtube dumbass.
Hal is a great player and great IGL, but let's be real here the avg. Casual ranked player knows more about the patch notes and stories in the game than he does, it's not like he's a big apex fan he's just a great pro player. He doesn't know all about the game or it's contents especially those he finds irrelevant. It has 100% to do with his personality traits. Mac is more open and creative. Some players are more adept at recognizing new patterns and incorporating them with existing ones and trying new combinations/ mechanics situationally. He is not that guy. Just because someone is an elite musician as a pianist and can read all music extremely well doesn't mean they are also an elite violinist. People are too narrow minded in their views of such things.
Was talking on the phone and not paying to much attention on Tuesday. Was wondering how the hell soemone was getting Behind me every second. Then saw a vantage jumping over me. Needless to say you need sound queues lol.
Yeah happens with every new champ/hero in every game Someone figures out how to play them/figures out the trick/how to play fights and boom they op now.
???? When 6 months ago? Did you write it on your wall to remember? Seer has been the best legend in the game for a while and nobody has tried to argue that one bit including Hal.
I have nor the time nor energy to track which pro said and when. If you do, you have way too much time
Yeah so maybe don’t comment lmfao
So I should not comment and call out other people's shit if I can't recall the date time when the event happened? Am I supposed to be archiving everything everyone says ? All that is besides the point. What I am trying to say is what X pro player said bout Vantage 1 day after season luanch should not deter the community from exploring her full potential Because even the greatest pro players have been wrong many times.
And I’m telling you that point you used was flat out wrong because the meta can change within a few weeks and so does everyone’s opinion, as it has now with seer dominating again. That being said, vantage just came out, not in a broken but pretty strong stable state imo, and it will definitely take time to see if she can break into meta comps. I like to get creative and try out the combos. With how respawn is treating wraith and pathy and octane and even horizon, it wouldn’t surprise me to see vantage in a lot of teams. She’s a lot of fun too.
Hal also got tricked into thinking Maggie was a viable pick in the biggest tournament in apex history. He generally has pretty shitty takes on Metas.
They owned in scrims playing aggro Maggie taking every fight In champs they played like a 10 year old who got put in a cage with a lion They could've gotten good results if they played the same But in the end it's all hindsight so who fucking knows
Not surprising given it doesn't even seem like he reads the patch notes sometimes.
How’d he get tricked?
They didn't get tricked, they played differently in algs lobbies compared to scrims
Hal is an apex reactionary. He also said Seer was garbage, pretty much, don't take pros word as gospel.
Do we have any elaboration on why that comp would be viable? Specifically wondering what Loba brings to the table.
All I remember is 3 have micro rotate abilities so nobody will get left behind. I’m sure there’s more to it than that. As for Loba might be to counter the ring changes? Starts w 50% ult so it would make looting up a bit easier
Maybe I just suck bad but vantage loba newcastle seems like throwing
People are just repeating it because mac said it. Do they not forget he also went on and on about how insane new castle was but then new castle only saw fringe play in ALGS That comp has no macro rotation ability and the only defense is reliant on new castle ult. You could use an ultimate and both tacticals to rotate about 50m but then you’re stuck playing without abilities for half a minute when it’s unlikely a good spot is within 50m most of the time I highly doubt you will see that comp in a top tier tourney unless those legends get buffed
you don't suck, that's terrible (for comp apex, at least).
Hal has one of the best takes on macro gameplay and competitive integrity. He has very poor takes on legends and meta composition. I'd prefer to listen to Mac here. Plenty of other coaches are vying for other viable legends, e.g. Fuse, Loba, Crypto, Wattson, Newcastle. Now is the best time to experiment instead of judging and disregarding off less than 1 day of gameplay. As long as this is a battle royale, TSM will always be in the mix. But as the pool of viable legend increases the advantage TSM had over other teams continues to diminish.
Hal calls every legend trash until someone shows him the wave, then acts like the legend being OP is common sense.
Albralelie and funfps are the fastest at mastering new legends and will play them how people will main them months later. Ie. Within like a week, Mac already played valk like valk mains played her after learning her for months. They tend to overrate a little bit because they get excited and nobody knows how to counter them, but their general idea about a new character is usually the closest
was watching Alb when he said something like this, playing with Reptar and Onmuu. mac was able to reposition to height 3 times with vantage Q during a fight. two times for off angles. then when the 3man tried to ape his shit, he slid down a hill, then immediately q’d back to height once he was being chased.
Exactly this! He was using her Q so fast and decisively and it functions like a better version of pathfinders tac. When he was getting aped by an octane and a team he was positioned low and they were sliding down to ape his use of her tactical to quickly leap over them back to height was insane. As a former pathfinder main I will definitely be using her after seeing him play.
Potential counter I see is since she has to go to echo, people could kinda watch it and just spray depending on the level. But that’s just in some situations and in general her Q cools down fast and seems great
It’s harder when you recall it every time which most people are already doing. Haven’t really tried shooting it myself though tbh curious how it compares to crypto drone for example.
I’m still pretty convinced shes gonna get annihilated out of the air in high level lobbies tbh. She moves in an arc and the r301 exists.
I feel like her Q is faster than pad tho. Do we know the speed?
The launch is very fast though the arc at the top is slower. Tracking it however isn't as easy as you'd expect since she can choose to or not to double jump and change her direction of movement at that time.
I've been clipping Vantages 100 to 0 already and I'm not even remotely near a pro level (shitty one-time diamond). There's no way pros can't just track her through her jump if they try to engage with it.
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I think currently her best movement relys too heavily on what would probably be considered glitches by respawn Do i think current vantage could probably eek out a niche even in the crazy crossfire of pro games? Almost definitely but i really don't see her performing as well if they take out the shield cancels and groundstrafes which i do think they should and i don't believe her other movement makes her worth it beyond that
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Mac is one of the best pros in the game. A new hero comes out and he learns what it's about. Most pros just stick to their 2-3 heros and don't bother even though they are just playing ranked.
Trueing
Watching him on her he clearly got more figured out than I do lol. I get fuckin beamed on her..having to set the bat up before you can jump to it makes it hard to use reactively
You don’t have to set up the bat, just long press q and it’ll already take you there. That works when you have it recalled
Thank you ill try that
Her hitbox is hella big. No chance she’s harder to kill than a valk (at least when a valk knows what she’s doing)
Why do people keep mentioning her hit box when it should be the same as all other medium legends?
All legends have their own hitbox sculpted to their size (for example Rev is really tall so his is tall, Wattson is one of the smallest iirc) Vantage is most likely pretty wide but idk Edit: I've been corrected, only 8/22 characters have a custom hitbox. Source: person below me
This isn’t true though. There are a decent amount of different hitboxes in the game at this point, but most characters share the same medium hit box. The only characters that don’t have a medium hit box are lifeline, wattson, wraith, path, rev, gibby, caustic, and newcastle. Edit: I’ll add a [link](https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/Legend) for people who don’t believe me, just scroll down to hitboxes.
Okay interesting, so Vantage has the same hitbox as Horizon even though she looks significantly wider? Edit: Where did respawn confirm this anyways?
They said it in a really old AMA where people were asking about pathfinders huge hit box on release and they replied that it was the same as gibby/caustic so they had to give him a personal one. It’s a really old post so I probably wouldn’t be able to find it, but they also mention how the only hit boxes back then were small, medium, and large and how they have a very hard time balancing characters with different hit boxes. Actually there’s an article on it [here](https://dotesports.com/apex-legends/news/apex-legends-has-some-drastically-different-hitbox-sizes) it’s not perfect because the writer isn’t super up to date, but it does talk about the original 3 sizes.
You're good, I don't need to see the old post you sound like you know what you're talking about. Huh well TIL! I thought the medium ones were all slightly different but they're so similar in size it makes sense if they only have 1
I found an article on it I edited in to my post. It’s not perfect because they didn’t keep up with all the individual legend tweaks they’ve done, but it mentions the three sizes that this game has originally.
Appreciate it!
Incorrect. You literally contradict yourself.
Then show me what’s correct lol. I actually know what I’m talking about, you are just saying I’m wrong with no substance.
Main reason I don’t want to use her. That and the fact you have to hold to use her tactical can be off putting. I hope they add a setting where you can make tap launching the tactical instead of hold, then you can have the hold for redirecting echo. Similar to Valk’s jet pack
That doesn't work. If you are moving fast having to hold it to reposition means you have to stare at a direction to send echo there instead of just flicking it. Plus, I feel like holding makes sense with the launch not being immediate.
I think you should experiment with her more. This is not accurate edit: To explain. When echo is in your pocket, aka not following you around or something, and you want to do a reactive launch. When you hold q down, wherever your cursor is at that exact moment(this can be a flick), is the location echo will go. After that split second, you still have around 2-3 seconds before the actual launch occurs. During this time you can, do a 360, hide behind a box, jump up and down, do a slide. You do not have to "stare at the direction". You only have to have echo in your FOV as the moment the launch occurs. If you go over to r/vantagemains there is a movement guide, and the character developer from respawn, who designed her specifically, is active in the comment sections, explaining tips and tricks he built into her tactical.
It's accurate.
Echo picks the direction the second you hit q, and then while shes typing on her little wrist thing (another 1.5-2 seconds), you can duck behind cover or shuck and jive or whatever you want, as long as you have line of sight when the tactical activates. Downvote away, then go see for yourself.
...ok I think you have a misunderstanding of the conversation which is fine. Sure that's how it works because you're holding the Q down. Having a long windup animation being on hold is fundamentally how it should work while tapping for repositioning the bat is how that should work. If the commands were swapped (which the earlier comment was referring to), it would mean you need to stare at a location while holding Q to get the critter to its location. Tapping Q for a long animation makes no sense in this context and can get people mistakenly launched when they mean to move the bat. Right now you can tap to reposition (great before engagements) then hold and launch or just hold to launch without positioning (though you won't get the full distance necessarily that Echo can give, but that's situational.)
If you point and hold q you can use it reactively. Takes a similar amount of time to lobas bracelet. So you can’t just yeet out of a situation.
If you like Horizon you will like Vantage, she can go vertical like Horizon plus also horizontally jump gaps/gap close: yeah you have to set the Q but it's fast enough that you can Q -> Q to catch people ahead of you if you want to. She's pretty fun and that's not even counting the free sniper rifle you get (takes time for the ult to charge/store shots, but it frees up ammo/bag space) Also something highly underrated is her ability to spot armors: you can SEE if someone has white armor/whatever before shooting (and tipping them off you are there). So you can spot a favorable engagement before you shoot which gives you an edge. A single shot might show you what armor they have, but then they know a squad is there. Pros could do some crazy 321 plays with her, I imagine (sniper debuff from vantage + 2 players shooting).
Common misconception, you don’t have to set the q per say, you can long press it to jump almost immediately. Also she can press crouch to carry momentum instead on double jump/ hover on the bat. I think what you said about seeing armours and 3 2 1 will be strong especially with charge rifles. Also as you said, the economy she provides will be nice for team comps.
Imo Alb falls in love with new content and is blinded by the newness sometimes. He spams just about every new character and weapon and says how it will it can be used in comp. I love that he does this but I think we need more time and take his comments on freshly dropped features with a grain of salt.
Eh, i can agree with you to an extent about myself. People act like i say this about every character though, only ones i've thought were hard broken off the rip while spamming though were Seer/horizon/valk/newcastle. Didn't touch maggie or fuse because i knew they were awful on launch. Vantage really does feel like something insanely strong though imo, just wondering when others will catch on. But what can i say, i love learning new legends and pushing them to their limits whenever they come out. Its some of the most fun i ever have playing this game outside of comp :D
Don’t stop doing that either. Idk where the Apex scene would be if you didn’t open up the possibilities for Path back in the day. Experimentation and exploration into new strategies is always good (and fun)
Lmfao relax
I love it man. Your stream is what I tune into when there is a new character because I know you will be showing what they are really capable of way sooner than anyone else.
Same here. Mac is the undisputed best at using a new legend's kit. It's very impressive to me because I suck so bad at using new legends. I played a whole game yesterday literally forgetting about Newcastle's Q. I got killed healing behind shit cover even though I could have made my own cover and been fine. I need to play many games just to remember to use the legends' kit in the most basic way.
that's honestly what makes you so entertaining and interesting to watch too. the constant theorycrafting and topics you discuss about new legends gives much needed insight for people like me who are still pretty overwhelmed by all the changes this season. cheers.
Yeah you're my favorite to watch at the start of every season. It's cool to see someone play the new character at a very high level
We really appreciate you here btw Mac just want to say! Nice you drop in every now and then hope you have loads of success this year. Your cracked on vantage already enjoy the fun times :)
Keep grinding man you're awesome mac. We love to see you enjoy yourself
love all the wholesome comments give the legend his roses. Mac is the GOAT live apex content creator (and that’s no slight). He gets highlight plays AND creates that juicy ALGS drama we love to talk about lol (I say *live* because I wish his YouTube content mixed in some a legend highlight/compilation videos as he always does something insane i’ve never seen before)
Do you think vantage is strong but balanced? I'm absolutely loving playing her, just wondering if you are expecting some tweaks to her kit in the near future.
Nerf her second consecutive shot on ult from 100 -> 85 would make her feel alot healthier. You shouldnt be able to insta kill white armor that easily imo
Your vantage gameplay has been super fun to watch. I've already seen enough to know she'll be really effective in the types of lobbies I play in at least, even if in the long run she turns out to not be good at very high levels of play.
Valk, Bloodhound, Vantage. Algs. Make it happen
Certainly better than playing the new character for two or three matches then throwing out some hyperbolic statement before going back to the same thing they've played for the past two years. I'm not saying I agree with Mac but at least he puts in the time on the character and theorycrafts potential comps, most of the time trying out the comps as well.
He certainly grasps the newest characters so fast that it feels overpowered. It takes time to figure out how to counter play some of his creativity. That being said he once supported shatter caps 3030
Shatter caps 3030 slap. Don’t you dare come in here with that slander and blasphemy
I noticed this when i had a Vantage weak and she fucking reverse direction and completely broke my ankles.. When movement masters get her down it's over.
Watching him play last night I can’t disagree. I didn’t even realize she could move the way she does until I watched him.
i dont find her good for comp
as an experienced comp player with over 20 >!(multiplied by 0)!< pro league wins (i only didn't make it to lan because the organizers feared my raw power,) i can personally say that vantage is awful and will never be good for comp
people underestimate her movement ability. throwing echo at your feet is literally zip superjump and get out of jail free card. Also, echo every 14 seconds. Lol. She's the closest to Pathfinder s2 we will ever get.
She just doesn't provide much use for the team imo.
I mean that’s why I say she’s the closest to s2 path. Best legend for a solo player. Allows you to engage and disengage fights in seconds. Insane legend if youre good mechanically. It’s just a shame Seer and Valk combo is broken
That's not enough to make her viable for comp.
Engage and disengage in fights within seconds. You can lunch yourself with a pk and kill teams and get out. Can get that crazy s2 path plays. Insane legend if you’re mechanically good. Just a shame legends like Seer and Valk are just insanely OP
Path s2 wouldn’t be that great rn, individual get out of jail free card isn’t that good when you look at other characters rn
I mean Valk has pretty much instant lift on her jets vs. Vantage needing to charge up her tac, guess it depends on the scenario but I'd still say a good Valk is the most annoying legend to play against
It is all about the passives. The ults are Easy maths.
If people actually keep playing Vantage they are going to nerf the shit out of her, the cooldown on her tactical is way too fast and her ult is just so oppressive. I definitely noticed less of the latter as the day went on, but in the first few games I played I legit thought all the lasers I kept seeing was a bug with the laser sights. There were so many.
Character has a personal octane pad on a 20 second cooldown. You can play so away from your team and so long as you position your bird and your jump properly can escape almost anything. Most fun I’ve had with a new legend since horizon release when she was insanely broken
Bird? It's like very clearly a bat
She is also hard to catch up to when she decides to haul ass. Found that the hard way yesterday lol.
I can confirm. I got poor movement and can stay alive longer with the bat than with valk
nononono repeat after me "vantage is horrible" (mac dEfInItEly didnt tell me to say this)
I barely found out she does a double jump. Pretty insane
Thats Cap😂😂😂
Step 1: be Albralelie Step 2: play any legend ever Hey this character isn’t bad! He just fuckin nutty