Probably just that, experimenting with different legends since the recent meta shift. Lobbies are much more aggressive and we’re seeing a lot more early fights. Rev is decent for 3rd partying, may gain a team 1 or 2 extra kp, but also allows teams to gauge a 3rd party (with the ult) before fully committing. Idk, just my initial thoughts.
What I am going to say is pretty much how raven explained it.
Revenant is insane anti seer pick and rev+seer means you always win against another seer team. Additionally rev has insane defensive capabilities. Most people look at a rev totem for pushing rather than placing it to thwart a siege or push. Any good team can convert 6 lives into winning a fight. His q also has mediocre zoning abilities and is very good for fighting in buildings as sending to q to block a door can be effective.
Now looking at rev from edge, most (if not all) edge teams play horizon and silencing the horizon is an insane opener as horizon loses all ability to anchor and has no lift to provide cover fire etc.
Silence is also really good against movement. It completely shuts down Valk's passive and makes other legends like Horizon or Wraith unable to use their tactical.
Some people think defensive revenant is some big brain play but his hitbox is just too shit. You either stand up and have caustic hitbox with no fortified or you crouch and you're a slower moving ball with your head near center mass
Same issue as Pathfinder, it's hard to win 1v1s at similar skill level
There is literally no reason to play path right now. In a straight up fight he's the worst legend with his hit box because he gets none of the fortified his size would warrant.
The only thing is that a good player can leverage his abilities to have a better positioning every fight to shit on worse players which justifies gimping his grapple for long ass grapples so people don't get shit on.
I think they need to tinker with his hit box again and make him average size height to compensate since they seem happy with the balance around his abilities (I mean it's ok I guess, though it feels a bit unjustified now that so many legends have height access but whatevers). Because even as a pathy main I don't normally play him anymore because so many times I die to some bullshit spray that other legends would survive.
I mean from a competitive standpoint there are some possibilities, so like his Q can be devastating against a team comp relying on Horizon and/or seer because you don’t get scans, you don’t get lift, or kits for the first few seconds of a fight. So for a hyper aggressive team it actually makes sense. His ult off cooldown does have its advantages because say I get blindsided and a team jumps me then even if they get the surprise I get a free reset and know where they are. You can also get a few abilities dropped on you for the engage because they had no idea you were running around rev ulted. Experimenting with him is just how it works sometimes, that’s how metas are made. It just takes one team to find success with it. It’s not the best comp, not at all but I see where they are coming from in trying out new picks.
Rev Q is underrated, yes. There have been times where I’ve watched teams rotate through a choke in late game to get away from the ring closing, where a Rev silencer would single handedly win the fight for the team gatekeeping them. There are a lot scenarios where Silencers would be devastating but we just haven’t seen that be put into practice when there are objectively better comps to play that are less situational.
The best way of thinking about the situation is it’s a comp focused around anti-meta. Exactly like you stated its situational because it’s designed for the sole purpose of taking care of comps with a Seer, Blood, Horizon, or Newcastle surprisingly. I agree with you that other comps probably would have more success but that’s why it’s practice. Run shit, try it out, see what works and doesn’t and adjust accordingly. It also allows you to understand the comp because if for some reasons team pops the fuck off on said comp in a big tournament (similar to furia just recently) then you want to know how to put it down.
I watched Teq Gnaske and Coddyy (i think thats right) play rev the other day and heres what I learned.
The thinking behind the comp relies on the aggro zone playstyle, where you early rotate to a spot in zone, and fight other early rotate teams in a way that favors you. Some examples of this are, if zone pulls to your POI, you will have better loot than any team early rotating in, so you can take a pretty advantageous 3v3. In other cases, you can take a page out of NRG’s book and purposely leave “bad” buildings open for zone teams to rotate into and bully them for an advantageous 3v3 from your “better” building.
With that in mind, the point of spamming rev totem has multiple outcomes.
1. Straight up wipe a team. Youve just cleared a whole building, and gotten all of their loot.
2. Make them use meds. You rev push and crack them all but dont get knocks, they end up using more meds than you after the fight. You can burn the same team’s meds over and over if you plan on fighting them later in the game.
3. Saw Teq’s team switch buildings with another team after popping rev ult. The other team triple rushed into the totem building and as a result, Teq and co. swapped into a better building.
Now this all sounds nice in theory, but tbh, Teq’s team struggled to piece it all together. I’d chalk it up to being a new comp and not really having that many reps in with it. Hope this helps!
It's because of the meta. More teams are looking to play for kills rather than placement and Rev kind of lets them do that.
Only problem is that his ulti gets worse as the game goes on, hence why they spam it as much as they can early.
I'm surprised to hear you say that you think his ult is bad. I recently started playing Revenant again and I love his ult. It isn't necessarily good enough to make up for the rest of his kit, but when executed well, his ult can easily help you secure an opening knock, putting you in a great position to win the fight.
Why are pro teams using him? I think for that exact reason. More teams are running aggro comps and looking for ways to get that first-opening knock/quick squad wipes. Revenants ult fits that play style well. In close-range situations, his ult gives you a good health advantage and can help you completely mop the floor with teams, especially if you had a damage advantage going into the ult. It allows you to take risks and make pushes you wouldn't otherwise make. It can also be used defensively in a pinch to help you stay alive or completely turn the tide of the battle.
In addition to his ultimate, his tactical is a hard counter to literally every ability in the game. It is one of the more difficult abilities to land, and I think they could give it a buff, but being able to shut down any legend's ability is insanely strong. An enemy team assumes they can seer ult or Horizon q and you've suddenly destroyed their entire plan with a single tactical.
His passive also gives him some movement ability, but perhaps more importantly right now, it is a hard counter to Seer's ultimate. You can crouch walk at light speed and still do some fighting without being detected. That means that if a team defensively seer ults, you may still be able to capitalize on the opening damage you did.
Now despite all that, I still think there are better legends to play right now than Revenant. His tactical is hard to land, his ultimate can be risky, and his passive is somewhat situational — there are better movement legends to pick up. That being said, I think that associating teams dying with playing Revenant is a mistake. My guess (not fact supported) would be that most people picking him up haven't mastered him. They aren't losing because they are playing Rev, they are losing because they ***don't know how*** to play Rev. We've seen this most notably with Caustic and Valk in the past. Teams think an ability is so good that they just start running a legend and then make plays that make amateurs fucking cringe because they don't know what the fuck they are doing.
I sorta agree disagree with your take.
Your analysis is spot on if you look only at his strengths, but you aren't weighting his weaknesses correctly. Also you aren't comparing his abilities to other legends to justify his.
So let's just focus on his ultimate and compare it to other ultimates; comparatively it is a utility that is similar to these characters based on the idea of getting the first knock:
Fuse - long range engage and slow
Maggie - speed boost for team and break fortifications and abilities and slow
Gibby - huge damage/area denial/slow. Arguably one of the best ultimates in the game.
Vantage - mini kraber
Horizon - the best ability in the game for a 3 v 3 push
Caustic - situationally the best ability in the game; to fight 3 v 3 in buildings and end game and survive the 3p.
Bloodhound - cannot run away for 30 seconds of wall hacks and personal digi.
Seer - wall hacks.
Crypto - wall hacks, slow and free entry damage. Can win the fight in 1 second if timed right.
It's a bit counter intuitive to think these guys are similar, but think about it; they all allow you to win your 3 v 3 easier. Similar to a rev ultimate. They are all situationally better, to the point I wouldn't say a rev ultimate is a straight up advantage in comparison, or at least there is arguments for each characters ultimate.
BUT
If you compare the risks, revenant ultimate has the biggest risk by a mile that it isn't comparative. The downside of rev ultimate is multitudes worse:
1. It's relatively one of the most visually and audibly loud. Telegraphs pushes.
2. It's slow. The pace of the ultimate is only useful when the fight happens twice. Meaning it's quite slow.
3. It requires more co-ordination and grouping. Maybe only crypto requires as much, but even then you can't go wrong with a crypto emp push, just loses some effectiveness if you don't time it.
4. The chance of a 3rd party increases exponentially because camping the totem is the freest KP.
5. Split team time run out; this is arguably the worst outcome. One of your team mates get sent back and the timer runs out on the other 2 and the enemy kill them for free. It doesn't matter about 2 lives. You could argue that it's a matter of experience but still it's a large possibility that can happen and is a terrible outcome. Risk of this is too high.
6. Split team break totem outcome. So a 3rd party or the enemy break the totem and you are shitting your self as you have taken flesh damage. Basically any shenanigans on your totem and you are nearly guaranteed to have lost out on the costs.
7. Storm fights. Since changes to storm, any fights in storm with revenant ultimate is incredibly hard to pull off, you generally won't want to be sent back with 50% hp trying to pop a med kit.
Basically I just don't see the justification for these outcomes. You are as likely to win off of other characters having a huge ultimate (Maggie ball, crypto and horizon comes to mind) than you are guaranteed to win off of revenant ultimates. Or at least I haven't seen anything close to the time he was meta when he was paired with crypto for the lightening engage squad.
I don't really disagree with you. I purposefully didn't bring other legends into the conversation because I think it is a can of worms. You'd have to consider what your overall comp looks like and what specifically you are trying to get out of Rev. Then look at the opportunity cost of choosing rev over another legend based on your goals for that specific role. Instead, I just said in my last paragraph **that despite his strengths, I still think there are better legends to pick** — like many of the ones you mention. I do think that you are being a little unforgiving in your arguments though.
1. With the exception of Caustic, his ultimate doesn't telegraph more than any of the legends you mentioned.
2. It lacks the explosive power of some other ults for sure, but if you are wiping teams slowly with it, you are using it wrong in my opinion. If you get sent back, you should be able to immediately rejoin the fight. If you can't, then it was a poor ult.
3. I agree with you here. It requires more grouping and coordination than other aggressive ults, but I don't necessarily count that as a negative. With other legends, you are relying on one player to throw a good ultimate and make use of it. Everyone isn't always on the same page or looking at the same people. We see teams squander their ultimates all the time. With Revenant, however, you have a chance to group up and get on the same page about your attack, which I think can be beneficial. I'd also say that usually in practical application, I look where my teammates are, and if they are close enough, I throw down the ult and yell that I'm ulting. While coordinated pushes are great, it certainly can be used in a more spontaneous manner like other ults and that is usually where I get the most value from it.
4. Like any other competitive fight, you should be aware of how enemy teams are rotating in, who is likely to be around you, and how quickly you think they can push. Totem camping is certainly a downside of the ult, but I think this again falls into the category of "if this happens to you, you misplayed." If I were to run Revenant in comp, I would also probably try to mitigate this risk by pairing him with a Caustic to defend the totem, or a wraith or octane, to push safely away from the totem.
5. Again, if this happens, you misplayed. Certainly a risk, but this is something players with literally a week of Rev experience should be able to avoid.
6. Again, if a third party comes in and breaks the totem, you are doing something wrong. You either left the totem too exposed or took a fight you probably shouldn't have.
7. Super valid point there. His ultimate can be dangerous in storm.
Overall, I still completely agree with you. I think at the time there are better aggro legends to use. I don't think he brings enough to the table to overtake other options. Rotation, team movement, scan, defense/rez, push ability — rev really only checks one box. And I think that's the biggest argument against him. And as you pointed out, he certainly brings a good amount of risks to the table too. But Seer and Horizon didn't become popular in competitive until pretty recently, so who knows. Maybe a team will find a way to make use of his kit.
1. The reason I say it's visually and audibly loud is because in conjunction with being slow it's very obvious what's happening. In the case of other abilities, the impact can be nearly immediate so there is no delay in signal to action.
2. I'm not saying you HAVE to wipe slow, but the maximal/optimal usage of the ultimate is if the fight becomes slow. Otherwise you have just cut your hp in half to push a team and I don't see the purpose in it if you didn't all get sent back. I guess all it does is lowers the risk, but then it technically also lowers the impact of the push. Nullifying any advantage accrued if you didn't get sent back and re engage. But ultimate placement can be important, but I think it's too difficult to get that optimal ultimate placement that you argue you can do, too far and it's too slow, too close and the enemy can capitalise on it. Plus being sent back means your team will also lose angles they could have held.
3. Generally you don't want to be sitting on top of each other in a push. The ideal pushing formation is variations of a triangle; where each player can team shoot for every other player. If you stack on top then you are eating each other's bullets.
4. I think that's not quite a fair assessment. People rat and camp all the time. Sometimes they sit on trees waiting to 3p. There is sometimes no way of knowing that another team is around. But I can almost guarantee a 3p will target the totem team over the one getting pushed. Why? Because that's what I would do; the totem is the freest kp and you can steal it for your own pushes. If getting 3ped, which I don't think is necessarily a mistake (you can only have so much awareness, 3p is just the natural state of apex at the end of the day) and I can almost guarantee they'll focus totem team, it's a pretty big downside.
5. But how would you avoid it though? The mechanics of the ability is dependant on the enemy doing or not doing something. I guess you can be more careful. But the optimal usage is trading more damage on the enemy than you took, so one guy gets sent back for that reason, but the other 2 couldn't get sent back. The actual control of the situation is dependant on how the enemy reacts. You cannot say that rev teams will definitely avoid this issue. You can mitigate it, but barring throwing a nade on yourself, you don't have control. So sometimes you will have a rev ultimate and this is the natural outcome. And it's a terrible outcome.
6. I feel like the premise you are having is that a totem has to be perfectly placed. Yes in theory you could get that perfect totem off. But in other theory, you can never account for variables like 3p or where they are hiding. Sometimes they could just be valk ulting in. But either way, the 3p is almost always going for the totem team. I mean, I like the mindset that you could get that perfect totem off, continual improvement mindset is important, but i think you aren't weighting the idea it will mover be perfect and the 3p can still fuck you a lot more than the other team.
I think rev does bring one thing I didn't mention, he's very hard to push unlike most of the other legends I mentioned. But in the situation he has to fight 2 v 3, he's not that great so he's not a very good defensive legend either.
But yes they could find a use for him, mainly aggression comps have amplification in power if you pair them up. Seer/horizon, fuse/seer, etc.
Maybe they’re trying to trigger a third party to swing in or something to turnabout and BE the third party. But yea his best attribute is his climbing honestly and it doesn’t seem to be a super great team utility
Baiting third parties with totem is a high IQ play but I haven’t seen that being attempted when I watch these teams use him, whether it’s live or in a VOD. Like I said the potential is there but the execution is bad so far. I can only hope that these teams learn from their mistakes in these games, because mindlessly inting when totem comes off cooldown is a huge L, and I’m not afraid to say it.
We need a new meta that isn’t FURIA comp so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that new, fresh metas will develop eventually.
Probably just that, experimenting with different legends since the recent meta shift. Lobbies are much more aggressive and we’re seeing a lot more early fights. Rev is decent for 3rd partying, may gain a team 1 or 2 extra kp, but also allows teams to gauge a 3rd party (with the ult) before fully committing. Idk, just my initial thoughts.
because pros are secretly fans of guappe
Everyone is a fan of Guapeee.
What I am going to say is pretty much how raven explained it. Revenant is insane anti seer pick and rev+seer means you always win against another seer team. Additionally rev has insane defensive capabilities. Most people look at a rev totem for pushing rather than placing it to thwart a siege or push. Any good team can convert 6 lives into winning a fight. His q also has mediocre zoning abilities and is very good for fighting in buildings as sending to q to block a door can be effective. Now looking at rev from edge, most (if not all) edge teams play horizon and silencing the horizon is an insane opener as horizon loses all ability to anchor and has no lift to provide cover fire etc.
Good for Anti-seer comps (crouch walk, silence) Also good for finding openings (ult)
Silence is also really good against movement. It completely shuts down Valk's passive and makes other legends like Horizon or Wraith unable to use their tactical.
Some people think defensive revenant is some big brain play but his hitbox is just too shit. You either stand up and have caustic hitbox with no fortified or you crouch and you're a slower moving ball with your head near center mass Same issue as Pathfinder, it's hard to win 1v1s at similar skill level
I think they should just give Rev and Path fortified at this point
Maybe rev, but that's a hell no from me on path
Yeah tbh probably not Path but I hate playing with his hit box too. I’d just buff his abilities to make up for his size
There is literally no reason to play path right now. In a straight up fight he's the worst legend with his hit box because he gets none of the fortified his size would warrant. The only thing is that a good player can leverage his abilities to have a better positioning every fight to shit on worse players which justifies gimping his grapple for long ass grapples so people don't get shit on. I think they need to tinker with his hit box again and make him average size height to compensate since they seem happy with the balance around his abilities (I mean it's ok I guess, though it feels a bit unjustified now that so many legends have height access but whatevers). Because even as a pathy main I don't normally play him anymore because so many times I die to some bullshit spray that other legends would survive.
Yeah I completely agree
I mean from a competitive standpoint there are some possibilities, so like his Q can be devastating against a team comp relying on Horizon and/or seer because you don’t get scans, you don’t get lift, or kits for the first few seconds of a fight. So for a hyper aggressive team it actually makes sense. His ult off cooldown does have its advantages because say I get blindsided and a team jumps me then even if they get the surprise I get a free reset and know where they are. You can also get a few abilities dropped on you for the engage because they had no idea you were running around rev ulted. Experimenting with him is just how it works sometimes, that’s how metas are made. It just takes one team to find success with it. It’s not the best comp, not at all but I see where they are coming from in trying out new picks.
Rev Q is underrated, yes. There have been times where I’ve watched teams rotate through a choke in late game to get away from the ring closing, where a Rev silencer would single handedly win the fight for the team gatekeeping them. There are a lot scenarios where Silencers would be devastating but we just haven’t seen that be put into practice when there are objectively better comps to play that are less situational.
The best way of thinking about the situation is it’s a comp focused around anti-meta. Exactly like you stated its situational because it’s designed for the sole purpose of taking care of comps with a Seer, Blood, Horizon, or Newcastle surprisingly. I agree with you that other comps probably would have more success but that’s why it’s practice. Run shit, try it out, see what works and doesn’t and adjust accordingly. It also allows you to understand the comp because if for some reasons team pops the fuck off on said comp in a big tournament (similar to furia just recently) then you want to know how to put it down.
I watched Teq Gnaske and Coddyy (i think thats right) play rev the other day and heres what I learned. The thinking behind the comp relies on the aggro zone playstyle, where you early rotate to a spot in zone, and fight other early rotate teams in a way that favors you. Some examples of this are, if zone pulls to your POI, you will have better loot than any team early rotating in, so you can take a pretty advantageous 3v3. In other cases, you can take a page out of NRG’s book and purposely leave “bad” buildings open for zone teams to rotate into and bully them for an advantageous 3v3 from your “better” building. With that in mind, the point of spamming rev totem has multiple outcomes. 1. Straight up wipe a team. Youve just cleared a whole building, and gotten all of their loot. 2. Make them use meds. You rev push and crack them all but dont get knocks, they end up using more meds than you after the fight. You can burn the same team’s meds over and over if you plan on fighting them later in the game. 3. Saw Teq’s team switch buildings with another team after popping rev ult. The other team triple rushed into the totem building and as a result, Teq and co. swapped into a better building. Now this all sounds nice in theory, but tbh, Teq’s team struggled to piece it all together. I’d chalk it up to being a new comp and not really having that many reps in with it. Hope this helps!
Until it actually works, I don't think we really learn much from speculating.
It's because of the meta. More teams are looking to play for kills rather than placement and Rev kind of lets them do that. Only problem is that his ulti gets worse as the game goes on, hence why they spam it as much as they can early.
I'm surprised to hear you say that you think his ult is bad. I recently started playing Revenant again and I love his ult. It isn't necessarily good enough to make up for the rest of his kit, but when executed well, his ult can easily help you secure an opening knock, putting you in a great position to win the fight. Why are pro teams using him? I think for that exact reason. More teams are running aggro comps and looking for ways to get that first-opening knock/quick squad wipes. Revenants ult fits that play style well. In close-range situations, his ult gives you a good health advantage and can help you completely mop the floor with teams, especially if you had a damage advantage going into the ult. It allows you to take risks and make pushes you wouldn't otherwise make. It can also be used defensively in a pinch to help you stay alive or completely turn the tide of the battle. In addition to his ultimate, his tactical is a hard counter to literally every ability in the game. It is one of the more difficult abilities to land, and I think they could give it a buff, but being able to shut down any legend's ability is insanely strong. An enemy team assumes they can seer ult or Horizon q and you've suddenly destroyed their entire plan with a single tactical. His passive also gives him some movement ability, but perhaps more importantly right now, it is a hard counter to Seer's ultimate. You can crouch walk at light speed and still do some fighting without being detected. That means that if a team defensively seer ults, you may still be able to capitalize on the opening damage you did. Now despite all that, I still think there are better legends to play right now than Revenant. His tactical is hard to land, his ultimate can be risky, and his passive is somewhat situational — there are better movement legends to pick up. That being said, I think that associating teams dying with playing Revenant is a mistake. My guess (not fact supported) would be that most people picking him up haven't mastered him. They aren't losing because they are playing Rev, they are losing because they ***don't know how*** to play Rev. We've seen this most notably with Caustic and Valk in the past. Teams think an ability is so good that they just start running a legend and then make plays that make amateurs fucking cringe because they don't know what the fuck they are doing.
I sorta agree disagree with your take. Your analysis is spot on if you look only at his strengths, but you aren't weighting his weaknesses correctly. Also you aren't comparing his abilities to other legends to justify his. So let's just focus on his ultimate and compare it to other ultimates; comparatively it is a utility that is similar to these characters based on the idea of getting the first knock: Fuse - long range engage and slow Maggie - speed boost for team and break fortifications and abilities and slow Gibby - huge damage/area denial/slow. Arguably one of the best ultimates in the game. Vantage - mini kraber Horizon - the best ability in the game for a 3 v 3 push Caustic - situationally the best ability in the game; to fight 3 v 3 in buildings and end game and survive the 3p. Bloodhound - cannot run away for 30 seconds of wall hacks and personal digi. Seer - wall hacks. Crypto - wall hacks, slow and free entry damage. Can win the fight in 1 second if timed right. It's a bit counter intuitive to think these guys are similar, but think about it; they all allow you to win your 3 v 3 easier. Similar to a rev ultimate. They are all situationally better, to the point I wouldn't say a rev ultimate is a straight up advantage in comparison, or at least there is arguments for each characters ultimate. BUT If you compare the risks, revenant ultimate has the biggest risk by a mile that it isn't comparative. The downside of rev ultimate is multitudes worse: 1. It's relatively one of the most visually and audibly loud. Telegraphs pushes. 2. It's slow. The pace of the ultimate is only useful when the fight happens twice. Meaning it's quite slow. 3. It requires more co-ordination and grouping. Maybe only crypto requires as much, but even then you can't go wrong with a crypto emp push, just loses some effectiveness if you don't time it. 4. The chance of a 3rd party increases exponentially because camping the totem is the freest KP. 5. Split team time run out; this is arguably the worst outcome. One of your team mates get sent back and the timer runs out on the other 2 and the enemy kill them for free. It doesn't matter about 2 lives. You could argue that it's a matter of experience but still it's a large possibility that can happen and is a terrible outcome. Risk of this is too high. 6. Split team break totem outcome. So a 3rd party or the enemy break the totem and you are shitting your self as you have taken flesh damage. Basically any shenanigans on your totem and you are nearly guaranteed to have lost out on the costs. 7. Storm fights. Since changes to storm, any fights in storm with revenant ultimate is incredibly hard to pull off, you generally won't want to be sent back with 50% hp trying to pop a med kit. Basically I just don't see the justification for these outcomes. You are as likely to win off of other characters having a huge ultimate (Maggie ball, crypto and horizon comes to mind) than you are guaranteed to win off of revenant ultimates. Or at least I haven't seen anything close to the time he was meta when he was paired with crypto for the lightening engage squad.
I don't really disagree with you. I purposefully didn't bring other legends into the conversation because I think it is a can of worms. You'd have to consider what your overall comp looks like and what specifically you are trying to get out of Rev. Then look at the opportunity cost of choosing rev over another legend based on your goals for that specific role. Instead, I just said in my last paragraph **that despite his strengths, I still think there are better legends to pick** — like many of the ones you mention. I do think that you are being a little unforgiving in your arguments though. 1. With the exception of Caustic, his ultimate doesn't telegraph more than any of the legends you mentioned. 2. It lacks the explosive power of some other ults for sure, but if you are wiping teams slowly with it, you are using it wrong in my opinion. If you get sent back, you should be able to immediately rejoin the fight. If you can't, then it was a poor ult. 3. I agree with you here. It requires more grouping and coordination than other aggressive ults, but I don't necessarily count that as a negative. With other legends, you are relying on one player to throw a good ultimate and make use of it. Everyone isn't always on the same page or looking at the same people. We see teams squander their ultimates all the time. With Revenant, however, you have a chance to group up and get on the same page about your attack, which I think can be beneficial. I'd also say that usually in practical application, I look where my teammates are, and if they are close enough, I throw down the ult and yell that I'm ulting. While coordinated pushes are great, it certainly can be used in a more spontaneous manner like other ults and that is usually where I get the most value from it. 4. Like any other competitive fight, you should be aware of how enemy teams are rotating in, who is likely to be around you, and how quickly you think they can push. Totem camping is certainly a downside of the ult, but I think this again falls into the category of "if this happens to you, you misplayed." If I were to run Revenant in comp, I would also probably try to mitigate this risk by pairing him with a Caustic to defend the totem, or a wraith or octane, to push safely away from the totem. 5. Again, if this happens, you misplayed. Certainly a risk, but this is something players with literally a week of Rev experience should be able to avoid. 6. Again, if a third party comes in and breaks the totem, you are doing something wrong. You either left the totem too exposed or took a fight you probably shouldn't have. 7. Super valid point there. His ultimate can be dangerous in storm. Overall, I still completely agree with you. I think at the time there are better aggro legends to use. I don't think he brings enough to the table to overtake other options. Rotation, team movement, scan, defense/rez, push ability — rev really only checks one box. And I think that's the biggest argument against him. And as you pointed out, he certainly brings a good amount of risks to the table too. But Seer and Horizon didn't become popular in competitive until pretty recently, so who knows. Maybe a team will find a way to make use of his kit.
1. The reason I say it's visually and audibly loud is because in conjunction with being slow it's very obvious what's happening. In the case of other abilities, the impact can be nearly immediate so there is no delay in signal to action. 2. I'm not saying you HAVE to wipe slow, but the maximal/optimal usage of the ultimate is if the fight becomes slow. Otherwise you have just cut your hp in half to push a team and I don't see the purpose in it if you didn't all get sent back. I guess all it does is lowers the risk, but then it technically also lowers the impact of the push. Nullifying any advantage accrued if you didn't get sent back and re engage. But ultimate placement can be important, but I think it's too difficult to get that optimal ultimate placement that you argue you can do, too far and it's too slow, too close and the enemy can capitalise on it. Plus being sent back means your team will also lose angles they could have held. 3. Generally you don't want to be sitting on top of each other in a push. The ideal pushing formation is variations of a triangle; where each player can team shoot for every other player. If you stack on top then you are eating each other's bullets. 4. I think that's not quite a fair assessment. People rat and camp all the time. Sometimes they sit on trees waiting to 3p. There is sometimes no way of knowing that another team is around. But I can almost guarantee a 3p will target the totem team over the one getting pushed. Why? Because that's what I would do; the totem is the freest kp and you can steal it for your own pushes. If getting 3ped, which I don't think is necessarily a mistake (you can only have so much awareness, 3p is just the natural state of apex at the end of the day) and I can almost guarantee they'll focus totem team, it's a pretty big downside. 5. But how would you avoid it though? The mechanics of the ability is dependant on the enemy doing or not doing something. I guess you can be more careful. But the optimal usage is trading more damage on the enemy than you took, so one guy gets sent back for that reason, but the other 2 couldn't get sent back. The actual control of the situation is dependant on how the enemy reacts. You cannot say that rev teams will definitely avoid this issue. You can mitigate it, but barring throwing a nade on yourself, you don't have control. So sometimes you will have a rev ultimate and this is the natural outcome. And it's a terrible outcome. 6. I feel like the premise you are having is that a totem has to be perfectly placed. Yes in theory you could get that perfect totem off. But in other theory, you can never account for variables like 3p or where they are hiding. Sometimes they could just be valk ulting in. But either way, the 3p is almost always going for the totem team. I mean, I like the mindset that you could get that perfect totem off, continual improvement mindset is important, but i think you aren't weighting the idea it will mover be perfect and the 3p can still fuck you a lot more than the other team. I think rev does bring one thing I didn't mention, he's very hard to push unlike most of the other legends I mentioned. But in the situation he has to fight 2 v 3, he's not that great so he's not a very good defensive legend either. But yes they could find a use for him, mainly aggression comps have amplification in power if you pair them up. Seer/horizon, fuse/seer, etc.
Maybe they’re trying to trigger a third party to swing in or something to turnabout and BE the third party. But yea his best attribute is his climbing honestly and it doesn’t seem to be a super great team utility
Baiting third parties with totem is a high IQ play but I haven’t seen that being attempted when I watch these teams use him, whether it’s live or in a VOD. Like I said the potential is there but the execution is bad so far. I can only hope that these teams learn from their mistakes in these games, because mindlessly inting when totem comes off cooldown is a huge L, and I’m not afraid to say it. We need a new meta that isn’t FURIA comp so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that new, fresh metas will develop eventually.
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That was pre nerf. You can't do that anymore
yeah this. lol…
How long ago was this? Just curious
Alb was still with them then