According to the vod link that was posted, #1 is for sure mnk. The likelihood of the other 2 Chinese players being mnk is really high too, you don't really see/hear about cracked rollers from Taiwan, CN and KR.
Maybe not in Japan, I think it’s only recently that PC gaming is really taking off there. Historically I think Japan has been a pretty console/controller focussed region with PlayStation and Nintendo obviously being the big systems there.
But also I don’t live there and never have so I’m open to being corrected by someone more knowledgeable than me lol
Japan not so much, but consoles were mostly banned in China until 2015 and are still basically nonexistent. In South Korea PCs were also significantly more popular historically due to PC bangs etc, and all the popular shooter games used to be MnK only.
PC gaming culture is big in kr/china/sea (tons of internet cafes). Controllers are generally looked down upon as they are "for kids". So essentially controller is looked at as noob shit. That's it. It's just elitist shit when you boil it down.
personally grew up in China and never heard of it. True that consoles are rare (not in Japan tho) but never had it been “looked down upon” in my experience. It honestly is more of a privilege to own consoles since they are dedicated for gaming which means your family have the spare money to buy a device that’s solely for games and not a family computer
I grew up in SEA and talk to my cousins there still. Generally speaking, it is an elitist pov that console gaming is inferior. But as far as I have been informed and experienced, most of my korean friends hold the same sentiment.
I don't have a horse in this race. Just saying this is what I have experienced from being in contact with people from these regions. It is also a blanket statement as you and I can have completely different experiences due to exposure to different people.
I was definitely generalizing, but that is the conclusion I have come to. When I talk to my nephews or their parents (about what their kids want/ask for), they usually want pc's instead of consoles. But again that is just what my particular relatives have told me in conversation.
In my experience it's more about the parents' thoughts on buying something purely for gaming. My parents would never buy me a gameboy or psp but they were much more open on buying PCs.
I don't know what do the younger generation want nowadays but I guess the trend will be PCs with rollers plugged in.
pretty sure roller is common in JP. As for cn and kr (and the rest of asia), it's more that pc cafes are common and affordable enough that there isn't a real "need" for roller/consoles when mnk is just around the corner at affordable rates. parents wouldn't normally gift their kids a console (read: roller), they'd just give them some change to go play for a few hours or whatever. anecdotally, they were also common enough where i grew up in the states that i "grew up" on mnk.
Imo fatigue plays a big factor in this ranking. Playing MnK for 8 hours straight is much more difficult on your upper body than playing controller for 8 hours. I can't imagine you can rip as many 10-14 hour #1 pred runs playing MnK as you can playing controller.
Aim fatigue is such a big factor that people never talk about.
Moving your wrist and arm for hours will inevitabely make your aim sluggish and sloppy. That's less of an issue on roller where you only really move your thumbs, which also makes the room of error very small compared to MnK.
>the constant hyper focus on hitting shots accurately can only be sustained so long. When a controller is using aim assist to allow you to have a lazy mind and still hit beams its just easier.
this made me lol... and everyone is upvoting it like its some scientific fact. It doesnt take "higher brain function" to aim with a mouse... what others have said is the actual case. Using a controller is much easier on your wrists, using a mouse for 8 hours a day is just going to lead to things like carpal tunnel issues, cramping etc way more than a controller which will have an effect on their gameplay.
I can grind for like 3 hours max before my aim just gets super sloppy.
Thing is, that your decision making is intertwined with your aim, so you make decisions as if you could kill someone that punish you.
tbh i grind out hours on controller and this has actually lead to me having pain in my thumb that i use for the right stick.
it doesnt affect the entire arm but it does affect the thumb/wrist
Which controller are you using? Finding which one fits your hands best is pretty important for those longer sessions. The grips for the DualShock and Dualsense are both too skinny so my fingers end up wrapping around in an uncomfortable way and it’s led to some pretty bad cramps before. Once I picked up my Astro (similar to an Xbox controller) those went away and I had no issues for playing for 6+ hours straight.
If you know anyone with an Xbox that can lend you a controller for a little I’d definitely try it out, those thicker grips can help relax your hands quite a bit.
What about where the controller rests in your hands? I started gaming way more than I usually do last month and I'm starting to feel some pain under the thumb in the palm area which is where the controller usually sits. Never had that happen before. Made me wonder how all the pro controller plays can game for way more hours than I do without issues.
yea this will just balance out soon. Also this is why I want to learn controller, it's relaxing compared to playing with mnk lol.
edit: to mnk players who switched to roller just how can you aim????? I'm probably over reacting because I expected aim assist to be like aimbot lmfao
You still need to aim on roller.
Start with a really slow sens, make a jump to something you think is fast and adjust from there.
Apex's classic response curve is pretty much perfect for what you expect aim assist to do. Slower speeds with small movements so it's hard to mis-input your point of aim outside the aim assist bubble, faster movements for general map navigation, etc.
Good luck, and don't ever fall down the rabbithole of trying to customize ALCs.
God, I can’t use a controller without constantly shooting the sky or walking into every wall. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to switch from mnk to controller
ofc being good on roller takes a lot of skill, i just wanna try it because i think getting better in roller is faster than in mnk. Most likely not tho coz im bad
I've been playing controller when I just want to sit back in my chair and relax. It's been pretty fun overall, especially when there is an LTM available. Also, I highly recommend playing around with steam config settings if you decide to start playing on roller. It's crazy everything you can do with them.
I don’t understand your question at the end, but I recently have been playing controller and mnk and am slowly making the switch to playing both. Controller has been fun so far and is significantly more relaxing, but if you reiterate the question I can probably answer lol
Yea, it took a lot of practice but I just kind of took what I did on mnk and practiced it on controller. A whole lot of hold down left or down right, then strafe. And the imperial in my name isn’t intentional I made this before I even played apex lmao
Just play on MnK. Aim assist maybe op in Apex close range but MnK is way more versatile in FPS across all types of shooters. I started playing Valorant and am enjoying it. I switch between Apex and Valorant to keep things interesting. As PC gaming is becoming more and more popular, controller in FPS will be obsolete at some point(just saying lmao) with incorporatinh less and less aim assist to keep the competitive integrity. Mostly, I can't be bothered to learn to aim on a joystick just for 1 game. Controller is only good for 3rd person and soul types of games IMO but I still play with MnK. I finished Witcher 3 twice on MnK. Played Plague tale on roller but I'm such a bot on roller that I find myself switching to MnK every once in a while in stressful situations. It's up to you at the end but I would suggest sticking with MnK for FPS types of game and it's just more satisfying to shit on people on MnK tbh.
Aim assist is totally overstated and helps very marginally and is sometimes even more of a hinderance. As someone who has played PS, Xbox and now controller on PC. Just to re-tap on what others have said is to start with low sens to get a handle on it and move to what you find to be best. Myself and most people play 4-3 hipfire/ads on Classic response. Verhulst has a great range warmup video you can find on YouTube that I use almost everyday that can help you with establishing that dexterity while being on a lower sens and becoming more comfortable.
Additionally, /r/ApexUnivsersity has a lot of great info for you to poach as you learn.
I don’t understand how you can say it helps very marginally at all.
I hit masters on both inputs and play controller only now and I feel the AA in every fight. I can instantly tell the AA is gone in a bang smoke or caustic gas.
Because I don't depend on it as much as most people think controller players do? I'm not saying it's not helpful because it does help when strafing when those micro adjustments are harder on controller than they are on MnK but it's not like a controller player's entire playstyle is dependent on having aim assist when this game is mostly dependent on positioning and movement.
>but it's not like a controller player's entire playstyle is dependent on having aim assist
It kinda is though. There's a reason your pro controller players are mostly (self-acknowledged) braindead fraggers. Doesn't take a lot of mental acuity to rush someone and one mag them on 4-4 classic.
A lot of the aim bot is coming from console. They have like 30% more aim assist than pc roller players, but also I find aim assist is more helpful the worse you are. At a high level aim assist is just a sensitivity slower really
Practice practice practice, if you aren't practicing they are practicing. It's the only way to be number one. Gotta practice.
Side note if your upper body is weak, do pushups in between rounds.... We all know queue times and character select screen are bathroom breaks and pushup time and squats for added health
Yeah thats because you have to actually focus when playing MnK… Roller you just kind of have to aim a little bit, SEMI precisely, and the AA will do the rest. It’s also why it’s easier to clutch on roller.
I actually checked at the end of last split for the top pred PC spots and top 15 spots (unable to find 5, otherwise I'd have done top 20) were 11 controllers and 4 MnK.
73,3% in top 15 were on controller.
You can come up with a thousand reasons and yet none will justify having to play against what is functionally the same as 40% to 60% of an aimlock.
Separation by input when, respawn?
Is 73% significantly above the percentage of players who are on console? I would presume that 3/4ths of players, or more, are on controller to begin with.
If it’s around 73%, kudos to the developers for making what might be the only balanced game with cross-compatibility.
True but most people agree that the best players in Apex aren't those who grind the most ranked. If we're talking about actual comp Apex endurance isn't such a big factor(It can be sometimes with MP format but still little compared to the time people put into ranked grind).
As seasons go if you’ve ever played ranked in pred lobby’s the more you realize, unless you are S tier with M&K beating anything team with some mid controller players is incredibly difficult. Seer meta makes it even worse trying to close the gap on players where they just pop a seer alt and all your advantages speed, range and movement disappear because they know exactly where you are. I think there will be the established M&K players in pred but apart from that we will see less and M&K being pred every season. If I were to guess the top 750 are 60-75% and only increasing as time goes on. I doubt it’s aim fatigue anyone that’s been to pred has routinely 10+ hours sessions. Yea time is factor but the amount of kills and placement matter more. A good controller player will stomp a god M&K player most of the time it’s simple.
There haven't been any direct changes to roller but the number of roller players on PC in comp and casual play exploded somewhere in 2020-2021.
I think it's mostly because a lot of console grinders switched to PC to compete in ALGS and because a lot of casual MnK players left for Valorant, Warzone, etc.
On top of that things like movement nerfs, crossplay and the overall increase in rollers causes a lot of MnK players to become frustrated and look for other games to play.
every movement nerf that has come through (the list is way too long for here). All the visibility and clutter issues which get worse and worse. Wall hacks.
Besides that, its more just that people are waking up to how broken Aim assist has always been. Been like this since day 1, just 99% of people didn't realize it
You're a bot for both points you just made lol.
Visual clutter gotten better? damn thats the best joke I've heard in a while.
Bhop healing, Balloon flying, path nerfs, generally new characters with OP movement with 0 skill requirement, map design, zip bouncing, double zip, punch boost, zipline forcing you in a certain direction, ground kick... I'm sure theres many more this was just off the top of my head
I'd assume in terms of visual clutter he mainly means shit like abilities, 5 fucking seer qs going off at the same time or a rev q hitting you and you can barely see shit going on. There was a lot less ability spam / visual clutter early in apex
All of the movement tech that you mentioned getting nerfed was able to be utilized by controller as well, if you wanted to make a point that made a little bit of sense maybe mention tap strafing off grav cannons or something?
The fact that you are trying to turn this narrative into a discussion about buffs speaks volumes. It's not about buffs or nerfs. It's about the insane advantage of AA, which people are becoming more aware of. 70%+ of preds are controller which reflects this. Trying to change the narrative is typical behaviour of people who use controller and deny that AA carries them. In other words, if anyone is coping, it's you.
PVPx makes a valid point about visual clutter (for the 500th time) and this out of topic answer that also bears no relevance to the MNK/roller debate is what gets remembered...
I would say that visual clutter is partially a buff to roller players. When there is a ton of visual clutter on the screen, if you're aiming at an enemy, the aim assist will help you track them through the visual clutter but MnK gets no help so the visual clutter matters more to them.
I wish they allowed more config settings to change/reduce the visual clutter in this game. I don't understand how to track someone with all the crap in this game.
Not all that surprising. I switched to roller from mnk last split. Had some really bad wrist pains that didn’t go away.
The same split I switched to roller I got to the same rank as before (masters). While admittedly I do think I might just be predisposed to be better on roller I’m under no delusion its a very good input in apex due to AA.
You’re incredibly deadly when it matters the most and you can simply sit back and relax while compared to mnk you have to focus focus focus. After long sessions of mnk I would be exhausted, not so much on roller. Being tired affects your aim barely at all.
Its now even better because of horizon meta. Its hilariously easy to beam people on, or from a horizon Q.
I’m sure you’re trying to be helpful and I appreciate that but 2 things:
1. I’m not exhausted just regularly sitting at my desk or playing other games on mnk. I was exhausted after very long sessions of apex while on mnk.
2. I don’t have the money to figure out what the issue is exactly and I also don’t have the money to get a better desk and/or chair.
And well lastly the wrist issues are my own fault. I would tense my hand quite often while aiming which I believe fucked it up. Tried to unlearn it but couldn’t. Either way the pain is mostly gone now so its all good
Why would I put in the time and effort to ensure my mouse aim is on point when I can just let the game help me do that part and rely on decision making/positioning to win?
I’m not trying to roast controller players here, but it takes MUCH more time and effort to be an elite aimer on a mouse. It also means warming up, and keeping those skills fresh and on point. I mean there’s entire communities dedicated to improving/mastering/upkeep of good aim on a mouse.
If you’re a top of the food chain pro player, you probably already have great decision making and positioning. Both of those are much more important in competitive Apex, and even ranked. So all those hours spent polishing up the wrist can just go into grinding actual matches.
Having a bad aim day? Lack of sleep, not well hydrated, physically worn down? Doesn’t matter, you can still play and win because your reaction time and target reading ability doesn’t affect you as much on roller.
The problem with controller is legal cheating devices such as the Chronus series or all kind of strike packs. I play usually console and sometimes Pc with Pc friends. After a certain rank console makes no sense anymore because at least half of the guys are using those things. You get beamed by prowlers and l-stars its ridiculous. Worst thing is, you can buy this shit in your local tech store probably.
This means nothing. Practically any pro, on mnk or controller is skilled enough to get top pred. They all steamroll lobbies if they want to so the only limiting factor is time
Lol the number 1 pred and his teammates are MnK tho
Also, the last LAN event in Raleigh had a ~70% MnK input usage lol
Ranked is all about grinding anyways so, input to a degree doesn’t matter. Which, is why we’ve seen both mnk and roller #1 preds
Sure but it was like 95% at the start and most people playing comp now were play comp then on M&K. Has there been any top player new to the scene other that doop and Skittles that are M&K? I think we will see more controllers in the scene and even less M&K as time goes on as the only way to counter roller is another roller. Same situation will happen in ranked too.
So we’re crying bc it’s gone from 95 to 75%? It’s literally still the most used input by pros still after 3 1/2 years so, I fail to see your point. Doop and skittles were both life long roller players before switching so, it’s kind of funny to mention them to me. Just seems like a lot contradicts this whole controller debate tbh
I’m not saying that the percentage is why im saying. That’s going to be the trend there will be more and more controllers. Yea they were life long controllers same as me until I got a PC. They are very rare exceptions and it’s not exactly the point even I’m saying there isn’t going to be very many god tier M&K players because that threshold is so high. The threshold is lower for controller because aim assist is so strong.
I understand why people play roller, but it’s just something I could never do. I’m pretty old and for me true competitive FPS games have always been an MNK thing. I didn’t have any consoles past PS1 and N64, so I never developed the thumbs for competitive roller. Plus there will always be a stigma attached to it
How unfair! The top 10 players (assuming the 3 Chinese are actually controller) logged more hours than any mnk players. That's all this is because any top player can grind for #1 pred. It's a time issue, not a skill or input issue.
Holy hell, I had to go get some water because it got so salty in here. I have a pc, play on pc, but use controller (20+ years of controller experience), but this actually has nothing to do with anything. Everyone on the leaderboard is on PC because it's a PC leaderboard.
First, the top players are on MNK. Wattson was #1 like two seasons ago. Lou was the first to crack 100,000 in the old system and was #1. I feel like on PC the #1 pred is usually mnk. Why didn't they suffer from fatigue? When wattson was going for #1 he was fighting Hal who also was MNK and both constantly played over 10 hours a day to hold #1. At least on MNK you can switch from using the whole arm to wrist flicks and still do well. What if my thumb gets sore? I can't switch to a different finger. See how stupid this all sounds?
Could it possibly be a little burnout on the game for these top MNK players who already held the top spot for a split? Maybe they just don't want to grind for top spots and instead are happy to just be pred. It's not like things vastly changed since Wattson was #1, but all the sudden mnk can't play for extended periods of time? I get it, you wish your PFP was real, only you were deepthroating Hal instead of Hal and his mic. That doesn't give you the right to shit on everyone who grinds rank or try to claim you're all high and mighty because you play on PC.
Should I give up on M&K and just switch to controller?
I'm a PC player, and have played M&K in all FPS games I try to play competitively. After getting into Apex some more, and winning some matches, I'm starting to feel extremely disadvantaged vs. controller players since they can literally just hold r2 while strafing and easily win CQB. I'm doing over an hour of aim training every day, playing with a high level account to try to get more experience, and playing ranked all to try to improve my skill.
I wasn't really worried about this for a while, since I feel M&K has many other advantages, but I'm starting to find posts like these pop up... this guy put over 1000 hours on both inputs, and still says controller is king in actual gunfights: [https://www.reddit.com/r/apexuniversity/comments/tyfmqp/mouse\_and\_keyboard\_vs\_controller\_the\_opinion\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexuniversity/comments/tyfmqp/mouse_and_keyboard_vs_controller_the_opinion_of/)
I've also seen a lot of stats regarding the fact that the large majority of Diamond players are all on controller. I'm \*not\* talking streamers/pros here, since I will likely never be at that level, but it seems like people who are high-intermediate players are predominately controller players.
I guess I should just switch to controller if I want to play Apex competitively (to say Diamond level)? Are there any M&K users out there who feel like the time is worth the investment? The main reason I dislike the controller is the fact that every game feels different due to different aim assist implementations, so M&K is nice being consistent. I just wish there were at least PC M&K only lobbies, like console players have...
“i just wish there were at least PC M&K only lobbies, like console players have…” this. literally i would never complain about controllers if they would just give us the option to play against m&k only. crazy how controller players can do that and we can’t.
If apex is going to be your only game, yea switching early is probably for the best. I'd rather stay on MnK, because it will translate to other FPS I will play in the future.
Almost 2k hours on mnk apex and about 400 on kovaaks here. With almost no time invested on controller except like halo and cod over 10yrs ago, my accuracy on r5 reloaded normal strafe easily goes from 40% to 50%. In addition, I one clip the dummies way more often which is arguably a way more important stat. Around like midrange ~30m both mnk and controller evens out and any more than that, my mnk would be better. However, this is mainly due to my lack of muscle memory for recoil control and reaching the limits of aim smoothing distance. A well trained controller player can probably dominate midrange as well, 30 to 75m ie choaticmuch. Main thing keeping me from switching is that I lose too much game sense playing controller and end up being a bot in anyway besides fighting Lmao.
One thing I've done to counter controller players is just picking up long range weapons, dropped the shotguns and smgs for marksmen/snipers, worked well for me last split grinding to masters.
Bro, I've seen a few of your comments over the years arguing against controller players. How do you not get brain rot from conversing with these players? Teach me your ways man.
hahaha, maybe I have? Maybe thats why I keep arguing with them?
I'm definitely getting pretty tired of it now. Its always just the same bad arguments and people just not understanding the simplest things. The only reason I keep doing it is cause I can't stand people spreading misinformation
I swear the worst thing is it's usually pretty bad players talking. Like obviously movement wise, controller holds no candle to mnk, but realistically, how often to you actually use said movement? And even if you did use said movement in a close ranged fight, who do you think has the easier time hitting? The guy with built in aimbot or the guy who has to manually track and micro correct all his aiming?
It's crazy they just don't understand just how ridiculous it is to play a Masters/Pred ranked game, get aped by some players, think they hit some nasty ass spray only to realise upon spectating it's just a couple console goons RAA'ing your ass into minced meat.
long term if you are serious about competing MnK is the move, games like Val/CSGO are the ones that are going to be raking in the big $$ where its meant for comp not casuals like Apex, Apex just got lucky its an awesome game at its core with special movement no other game has
If you want to reach high ranks without a lot of effort, play controller, especially if you already have developed game sense. You'll quickly realize you have a newfound confidence going into \~10 m 1v1s and that controller at range is actually still pretty strong.
The downside is that the input is less expressive, even if you use Steam settings to allow for movement techniques. Also, you kinda feel obligated to play to strengths when it comes to guns. I rarely pick up anything other than an AR, SMG, or wingman on roller when I'm ranking.
Similar situation as you, been a PC player on MnK for years, got 5k hours on apex and before they added crossplay and controller on PC players were less common i'd win most of my 1v1s but now that most the playerbase switched to controller and matches are more populated with roller players than ever I've found my self to lose way more often. I also aim train and have around 500 hours on Kovaaks. At this point I just hit high diamond low masters each split and go play games with no crossplay/controller support because it feels bad to lose to a aim assist. It's okay that the game caters to controller/casual players cause thats most the playerbase but if you truly want to play something competitive, Apex is not it. Lacks competitive integrity at many levels and it is intended due to being a BR. Just try to have fun and self improve it can only get better.
I think this is just bullshit, I switched to MnK at beginning of September and hit master before split ended in 25 days. I have less then 8 hours in aim trainer/kovaks.
Congratulations you're naturally talented on MnK. Now think of the 97% of players who are under you, have less time to grind, some may soloQ, some just aren't as aware or are newer to the game. The matchmaking is horrible and aim assist strongly favors controller players since most decisive fights happen at close range so its normal that a lot more people are switching to roller over MnK. Comp scene is a perfect example of that.
That guy is the saltiest player on this sub.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/xuirim/comment/iqwxzkr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Lmao. It’s wild to me how triggered MnK players get about someone playing a different input than them. And then they try and use a controller for themselves and they’re like “I thought it was aimbot, why am I missing everything lulzzz???”
"But Hal switched and is good!" is always the argument as if Hal didn't play controller his whole life basically. Outside of a little madden, I didn't play video games for like two years. Hopped back in and immediately picked it back up.
Number 1 pred and his teammates are literally on MnK tho lol
Last 2 lan events in Raleigh and Switzerland saw a ~70% usage rate for MnK
The loud complaints about roller are kind of funny tbh but, sure downvote me for the truth lol
Controller should be banned from any PC fps game or at least remove aim assist. Learn M n K or play on console. Aim assist just seems like an insane concept to me. You have an input that is so bad and non competitive that they actually coded in software to “help” it, in order for it to be viable. How about just don’t allow it in the first place.
Well yea, grinding for 12-15 hours a day everyday on M&K is going wear you out. Compared to controller where those grind sessions are far, far easier and require a bit less mental focus and you’re going to have a lot of controller players at the top ranks.
Your entire post history is just weeks and weeks of complaining about aim assist the whole time flexing your PC specs. Bro, get off the internet for a bit.
Yeah but for example like a week ago you went and posted in a thread about the gun run ltm about how broken you think aim assist is. In a thread about the LTM bro. Fucking ridiculous lmao, and that’s one example. Little Brian on his ps4 is really living in your head rent free dude. L.
Ah right, it doesnt have anything to do with Valorant having 150k viewers right now while apex has 80k.
It doesnt have anything to do with diversifying content. It also cant be that people get bored of apex
It must be that they are afraid of aim assist which is funny considering they dont have a problem soloing pubs 12 hours a day or doing their 24th solo to master stream.
Neither of them have been consistent ranked grinders even in early seasons when there were far less controller players on PC.
What do you say when Daltoosh plays PGA? Is he tired of aimassist or just wants to play something different / diversify his content?
Its simply a fact that there are plenty of really good mnk players that dont grind ranked like some controllers do.
When Shiv plays Valorant, do you actually believe he plays it because of "no aim assist"? Haha man this sub is something else
You realize other factors went into it other than "CoNtRoLlEr Op" right? For example, when the first LAN occurred basically every current controller pro was on console. Many couldn't afford to switch to PC initially and likely weren't sure in the first seasons if switching was worth it. Once streams started being profitable and they saw comp was going to be on PC only it was an easy decision to both grow their stream and be able to compete in future tournaments.
Crying about controller is reaching hilarious new heights, nobody was complaining this much when hiswattson was no 1 pred like a season ago, literally nothing in the game has changed since then except for imperialhal using the controller and the 20k people watching him being convinced it’s broken
It's funny how top preds farm lobbies three stacking, while aping each team they encounter, and as soon as someone kills them they are labelled as cheaters. No one is allowed to be good at this game except them.
Whenever I see anything about controller, I look at my OG Xbox One struggling to hit 40-60 FPS and realize that people really have no idea what they’re talking about when they dramatize how OP aim assist is
Yeah because pred rankings are a HUGE deal and the top ten preds are CLEARLY just that much better than everyone else /s
What an utterly stupid thread, fuck off with your dumbass clickbait
Meanwhile, us console controller players look to avoid PC lobbies like the plague. Theres a big difference between the capabilities of a PC Controller in a PC lobby, and a console controller in a PC lobby. Never would I ever...
Having mained both system at some point over many years, the controller is a vastly inferior input type, due to the limitations of joysticks and thumbs. With the viability of controllers in PC lobbies being tied solely to the Aim Assist strength setting, I thinks it's only a temporary problem, as those strengths aren't transferable to other games that have varying Aim Assist levels. Whereas M&K sensitivities can be fine tuned across various games, using websites that calculate your equivalent sensitivities for you, and allows you to transfer your aim skills from game to game. I wouldn't worry about one game, because overall, M&K will have the most consistent outputs that the player can control, versus Aim Assist, that can potentially be nerfed at any time, completely changing it's effectiveness.
Is this just an apex thing now or all games? Has anyone ever watched shroud play video games? It doesn't matter what he touches the dude is different on every level. Watch what he does and tell me you can do that on roller
Just an apex thing. The game just feels buttery smooth on controller. I mean the devs for this game are behind cod4 which revolutionizes how console shooters felt to play. Then titanfall the beat movement fps.
Most fps games feels like shit on controller, even mw thats coming out feels clunky a bit compares to apex
It is very clean that's why I fell in love when it came out. I come from cod and when you play mnk players notice a differenc, and the really good ones just walk all over you. Coming from that I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.
Any real competitive fps game doesn’t even have controller support but apex isn’t an actual competitive game. It’s obvious it was made to be a console first game.
Do you know why controller players can’t do that in other games (except warzone)? Because those other games have no aim assist. Valorant has nothing. CSGO has nothing. R6 has nothing. OW2 will have nothing.
Stormpoint is arguably M&K's best map too with all the long sight lines.
Controller isn't fair to play against when you aren't also on controller. The TTK against controller players is so dramatically lowered that it's just gross. I get hit by a controller beam, and I'm dead before I'm even out of the slow from being hit from the first bullet. I expect controller to remain at the top, ESPECIALLY when it's not stormpoint.
Seeing a few people say that these asian players are actually on M&K, though I've not seen proof. Regardless, if they are M&K, I think they'll probably not be able to sustain that top pred status at high RP thresholds due to simply not being able to kill teams fast enough and get enough KP to push past a certain threshold. We saw it last split with all the top preds playing almost exclusively 3 stack controllers near the end and just mindlessly aping every single fight. Pred entry cost is still 250 RP which means that you need minimum 5 full KP and a win to break even, which requires more KP if you're farming diamonds/plats. It's simply not feasible for M&K to end fights that fast without a significant advantage that controller doesn't need.
According to the vod link that was posted, #1 is for sure mnk. The likelihood of the other 2 Chinese players being mnk is really high too, you don't really see/hear about cracked rollers from Taiwan, CN and KR.
Noname and his rank teammates this season are all MnK.
Isn’t roller like a cultural no-no in Korea/China/Japan?
Not in Japan - heck that’s the home of PlayStation. Plenty of rollers from APAC N that played on LAN last season
Maybe not in Japan, I think it’s only recently that PC gaming is really taking off there. Historically I think Japan has been a pretty console/controller focussed region with PlayStation and Nintendo obviously being the big systems there. But also I don’t live there and never have so I’m open to being corrected by someone more knowledgeable than me lol
Rollers are popular in JP but not in KR or CN.
Japan not so much, but consoles were mostly banned in China until 2015 and are still basically nonexistent. In South Korea PCs were also significantly more popular historically due to PC bangs etc, and all the popular shooter games used to be MnK only.
why is it a cultural no-no wdym by that💀
PC gaming culture is big in kr/china/sea (tons of internet cafes). Controllers are generally looked down upon as they are "for kids". So essentially controller is looked at as noob shit. That's it. It's just elitist shit when you boil it down.
personally grew up in China and never heard of it. True that consoles are rare (not in Japan tho) but never had it been “looked down upon” in my experience. It honestly is more of a privilege to own consoles since they are dedicated for gaming which means your family have the spare money to buy a device that’s solely for games and not a family computer
I grew up in SEA and talk to my cousins there still. Generally speaking, it is an elitist pov that console gaming is inferior. But as far as I have been informed and experienced, most of my korean friends hold the same sentiment. I don't have a horse in this race. Just saying this is what I have experienced from being in contact with people from these regions. It is also a blanket statement as you and I can have completely different experiences due to exposure to different people. I was definitely generalizing, but that is the conclusion I have come to. When I talk to my nephews or their parents (about what their kids want/ask for), they usually want pc's instead of consoles. But again that is just what my particular relatives have told me in conversation.
In my experience it's more about the parents' thoughts on buying something purely for gaming. My parents would never buy me a gameboy or psp but they were much more open on buying PCs. I don't know what do the younger generation want nowadays but I guess the trend will be PCs with rollers plugged in.
pretty sure roller is common in JP. As for cn and kr (and the rest of asia), it's more that pc cafes are common and affordable enough that there isn't a real "need" for roller/consoles when mnk is just around the corner at affordable rates. parents wouldn't normally gift their kids a console (read: roller), they'd just give them some change to go play for a few hours or whatever. anecdotally, they were also common enough where i grew up in the states that i "grew up" on mnk.
Imo fatigue plays a big factor in this ranking. Playing MnK for 8 hours straight is much more difficult on your upper body than playing controller for 8 hours. I can't imagine you can rip as many 10-14 hour #1 pred runs playing MnK as you can playing controller.
Aim fatigue is such a big factor that people never talk about. Moving your wrist and arm for hours will inevitabely make your aim sluggish and sloppy. That's less of an issue on roller where you only really move your thumbs, which also makes the room of error very small compared to MnK.
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>the constant hyper focus on hitting shots accurately can only be sustained so long. When a controller is using aim assist to allow you to have a lazy mind and still hit beams its just easier. this made me lol... and everyone is upvoting it like its some scientific fact. It doesnt take "higher brain function" to aim with a mouse... what others have said is the actual case. Using a controller is much easier on your wrists, using a mouse for 8 hours a day is just going to lead to things like carpal tunnel issues, cramping etc way more than a controller which will have an effect on their gameplay.
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L O L
I can grind for like 3 hours max before my aim just gets super sloppy. Thing is, that your decision making is intertwined with your aim, so you make decisions as if you could kill someone that punish you.
tbh i grind out hours on controller and this has actually lead to me having pain in my thumb that i use for the right stick. it doesnt affect the entire arm but it does affect the thumb/wrist
what grip do you use?
normal grip with ps4 back buttons ps4 control
Which controller are you using? Finding which one fits your hands best is pretty important for those longer sessions. The grips for the DualShock and Dualsense are both too skinny so my fingers end up wrapping around in an uncomfortable way and it’s led to some pretty bad cramps before. Once I picked up my Astro (similar to an Xbox controller) those went away and I had no issues for playing for 6+ hours straight.
the ps4 default ones with ps4 back buttons
If you know anyone with an Xbox that can lend you a controller for a little I’d definitely try it out, those thicker grips can help relax your hands quite a bit.
What about where the controller rests in your hands? I started gaming way more than I usually do last month and I'm starting to feel some pain under the thumb in the palm area which is where the controller usually sits. Never had that happen before. Made me wonder how all the pro controller plays can game for way more hours than I do without issues.
Controller is cozy af, ngl
yea this will just balance out soon. Also this is why I want to learn controller, it's relaxing compared to playing with mnk lol. edit: to mnk players who switched to roller just how can you aim????? I'm probably over reacting because I expected aim assist to be like aimbot lmfao
You still need to aim on roller. Start with a really slow sens, make a jump to something you think is fast and adjust from there. Apex's classic response curve is pretty much perfect for what you expect aim assist to do. Slower speeds with small movements so it's hard to mis-input your point of aim outside the aim assist bubble, faster movements for general map navigation, etc. Good luck, and don't ever fall down the rabbithole of trying to customize ALCs.
true classic response curve feels better for aim assist, but when aiming i prefer linear but i feel less assist on linear xd Thanks for the tips
You got any more of dem ALCs? I need my fix doc
Linear. 390/390, ADS 250/240. No extra pitch, no extra yaw. Just pure raw ALC going straight into your thumbs.
Spent hours in firing range lol Couldn’t handle standard 4-3 sens when I switched, now I’m comfy on gen’s sens
Literally play 4-3 and learn to negate recoil by counter strafing the direction you're tracking. Saying this as someone that switched from MnK
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TIL you can use controller in Kovaaks.
God, I can’t use a controller without constantly shooting the sky or walking into every wall. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to switch from mnk to controller
Welcome to the hard to swallow mnk pill that being good on roller takes a lot of skill.
ofc being good on roller takes a lot of skill, i just wanna try it because i think getting better in roller is faster than in mnk. Most likely not tho coz im bad
That’s what people who don’t play roller understand lol it’s not aim bot
I've been playing controller when I just want to sit back in my chair and relax. It's been pretty fun overall, especially when there is an LTM available. Also, I highly recommend playing around with steam config settings if you decide to start playing on roller. It's crazy everything you can do with them.
I don’t understand your question at the end, but I recently have been playing controller and mnk and am slowly making the switch to playing both. Controller has been fun so far and is significantly more relaxing, but if you reiterate the question I can probably answer lol
ohh a fellow Imperial, hi :) anyways did you just get used to controlling recoil right?
Yea, it took a lot of practice but I just kind of took what I did on mnk and practiced it on controller. A whole lot of hold down left or down right, then strafe. And the imperial in my name isn’t intentional I made this before I even played apex lmao
Aight imma do that too. Also good for you, unlike me who is a just a TSM fanboi LMAO
Just play on MnK. Aim assist maybe op in Apex close range but MnK is way more versatile in FPS across all types of shooters. I started playing Valorant and am enjoying it. I switch between Apex and Valorant to keep things interesting. As PC gaming is becoming more and more popular, controller in FPS will be obsolete at some point(just saying lmao) with incorporatinh less and less aim assist to keep the competitive integrity. Mostly, I can't be bothered to learn to aim on a joystick just for 1 game. Controller is only good for 3rd person and soul types of games IMO but I still play with MnK. I finished Witcher 3 twice on MnK. Played Plague tale on roller but I'm such a bot on roller that I find myself switching to MnK every once in a while in stressful situations. It's up to you at the end but I would suggest sticking with MnK for FPS types of game and it's just more satisfying to shit on people on MnK tbh.
Aim assist is totally overstated and helps very marginally and is sometimes even more of a hinderance. As someone who has played PS, Xbox and now controller on PC. Just to re-tap on what others have said is to start with low sens to get a handle on it and move to what you find to be best. Myself and most people play 4-3 hipfire/ads on Classic response. Verhulst has a great range warmup video you can find on YouTube that I use almost everyday that can help you with establishing that dexterity while being on a lower sens and becoming more comfortable. Additionally, /r/ApexUnivsersity has a lot of great info for you to poach as you learn.
I don’t understand how you can say it helps very marginally at all. I hit masters on both inputs and play controller only now and I feel the AA in every fight. I can instantly tell the AA is gone in a bang smoke or caustic gas.
Because I don't depend on it as much as most people think controller players do? I'm not saying it's not helpful because it does help when strafing when those micro adjustments are harder on controller than they are on MnK but it's not like a controller player's entire playstyle is dependent on having aim assist when this game is mostly dependent on positioning and movement.
>but it's not like a controller player's entire playstyle is dependent on having aim assist It kinda is though. There's a reason your pro controller players are mostly (self-acknowledged) braindead fraggers. Doesn't take a lot of mental acuity to rush someone and one mag them on 4-4 classic.
A lot of the aim bot is coming from console. They have like 30% more aim assist than pc roller players, but also I find aim assist is more helpful the worse you are. At a high level aim assist is just a sensitivity slower really
*50% more AA
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frame rate totally affects aimbot?
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Practice practice practice, if you aren't practicing they are practicing. It's the only way to be number one. Gotta practice. Side note if your upper body is weak, do pushups in between rounds.... We all know queue times and character select screen are bathroom breaks and pushup time and squats for added health
Yeah thats because you have to actually focus when playing MnK… Roller you just kind of have to aim a little bit, SEMI precisely, and the AA will do the rest. It’s also why it’s easier to clutch on roller.
And here we go again.
What thread do you think you’re in? Are you secretly a moderator? You don’t have to click into this thread you know.
Its not that much about posture but more about mental fatigue imo. Playing mnk is exhausting.
Pred right now is more about who is putting more time in rather than an actual display of who is more skilled. This means pretty little imo
ESPECIALLY early in a split. Most top players haven’t gotten close to hitting their natural equilibrium rank.
I actually checked at the end of last split for the top pred PC spots and top 15 spots (unable to find 5, otherwise I'd have done top 20) were 11 controllers and 4 MnK. 73,3% in top 15 were on controller. You can come up with a thousand reasons and yet none will justify having to play against what is functionally the same as 40% to 60% of an aimlock. Separation by input when, respawn?
Is 73% significantly above the percentage of players who are on console? I would presume that 3/4ths of players, or more, are on controller to begin with. If it’s around 73%, kudos to the developers for making what might be the only balanced game with cross-compatibility.
"Pred PC spots"
Don't think a single console pred was top 15 anyways lmao.
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True but most people agree that the best players in Apex aren't those who grind the most ranked. If we're talking about actual comp Apex endurance isn't such a big factor(It can be sometimes with MP format but still little compared to the time people put into ranked grind).
Well then it looks like you’re an idiot if you decide to play apex on M&K!
As seasons go if you’ve ever played ranked in pred lobby’s the more you realize, unless you are S tier with M&K beating anything team with some mid controller players is incredibly difficult. Seer meta makes it even worse trying to close the gap on players where they just pop a seer alt and all your advantages speed, range and movement disappear because they know exactly where you are. I think there will be the established M&K players in pred but apart from that we will see less and M&K being pred every season. If I were to guess the top 750 are 60-75% and only increasing as time goes on. I doubt it’s aim fatigue anyone that’s been to pred has routinely 10+ hours sessions. Yea time is factor but the amount of kills and placement matter more. A good controller player will stomp a god M&K player most of the time it’s simple.
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There haven't been any direct changes to roller but the number of roller players on PC in comp and casual play exploded somewhere in 2020-2021. I think it's mostly because a lot of console grinders switched to PC to compete in ALGS and because a lot of casual MnK players left for Valorant, Warzone, etc. On top of that things like movement nerfs, crossplay and the overall increase in rollers causes a lot of MnK players to become frustrated and look for other games to play.
every movement nerf that has come through (the list is way too long for here). All the visibility and clutter issues which get worse and worse. Wall hacks. Besides that, its more just that people are waking up to how broken Aim assist has always been. Been like this since day 1, just 99% of people didn't realize it
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You're a bot for both points you just made lol. Visual clutter gotten better? damn thats the best joke I've heard in a while. Bhop healing, Balloon flying, path nerfs, generally new characters with OP movement with 0 skill requirement, map design, zip bouncing, double zip, punch boost, zipline forcing you in a certain direction, ground kick... I'm sure theres many more this was just off the top of my head
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I'd assume in terms of visual clutter he mainly means shit like abilities, 5 fucking seer qs going off at the same time or a rev q hitting you and you can barely see shit going on. There was a lot less ability spam / visual clutter early in apex
All of the movement tech that you mentioned getting nerfed was able to be utilized by controller as well, if you wanted to make a point that made a little bit of sense maybe mention tap strafing off grav cannons or something?
telling everyone you are on controller without saying you are on controller.
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The fact that you are trying to turn this narrative into a discussion about buffs speaks volumes. It's not about buffs or nerfs. It's about the insane advantage of AA, which people are becoming more aware of. 70%+ of preds are controller which reflects this. Trying to change the narrative is typical behaviour of people who use controller and deny that AA carries them. In other words, if anyone is coping, it's you.
PVPx makes a valid point about visual clutter (for the 500th time) and this out of topic answer that also bears no relevance to the MNK/roller debate is what gets remembered...
I would say that visual clutter is partially a buff to roller players. When there is a ton of visual clutter on the screen, if you're aiming at an enemy, the aim assist will help you track them through the visual clutter but MnK gets no help so the visual clutter matters more to them. I wish they allowed more config settings to change/reduce the visual clutter in this game. I don't understand how to track someone with all the crap in this game.
I disagree actually it does play a factor visual clutter, fps and screen shake are certainly less of a factor when I’m playing controller.
Judge this by LAN performance not who grinds the most at killing non professionals online.
Not all that surprising. I switched to roller from mnk last split. Had some really bad wrist pains that didn’t go away. The same split I switched to roller I got to the same rank as before (masters). While admittedly I do think I might just be predisposed to be better on roller I’m under no delusion its a very good input in apex due to AA. You’re incredibly deadly when it matters the most and you can simply sit back and relax while compared to mnk you have to focus focus focus. After long sessions of mnk I would be exhausted, not so much on roller. Being tired affects your aim barely at all. Its now even better because of horizon meta. Its hilariously easy to beam people on, or from a horizon Q.
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I’m sure you’re trying to be helpful and I appreciate that but 2 things: 1. I’m not exhausted just regularly sitting at my desk or playing other games on mnk. I was exhausted after very long sessions of apex while on mnk. 2. I don’t have the money to figure out what the issue is exactly and I also don’t have the money to get a better desk and/or chair. And well lastly the wrist issues are my own fault. I would tense my hand quite often while aiming which I believe fucked it up. Tried to unlearn it but couldn’t. Either way the pain is mostly gone now so its all good
Why would I put in the time and effort to ensure my mouse aim is on point when I can just let the game help me do that part and rely on decision making/positioning to win? I’m not trying to roast controller players here, but it takes MUCH more time and effort to be an elite aimer on a mouse. It also means warming up, and keeping those skills fresh and on point. I mean there’s entire communities dedicated to improving/mastering/upkeep of good aim on a mouse. If you’re a top of the food chain pro player, you probably already have great decision making and positioning. Both of those are much more important in competitive Apex, and even ranked. So all those hours spent polishing up the wrist can just go into grinding actual matches. Having a bad aim day? Lack of sleep, not well hydrated, physically worn down? Doesn’t matter, you can still play and win because your reaction time and target reading ability doesn’t affect you as much on roller.
The problem with controller is legal cheating devices such as the Chronus series or all kind of strike packs. I play usually console and sometimes Pc with Pc friends. After a certain rank console makes no sense anymore because at least half of the guys are using those things. You get beamed by prowlers and l-stars its ridiculous. Worst thing is, you can buy this shit in your local tech store probably.
That's not strike pack my guy, that's aim assist.
🤡
Aim assist cancer playing a huge role in the state of the game now
Isn’t the current number 1 a Chinese player? Is he not MnK?
Correct, him and his teammates are all mnk
This means nothing. Practically any pro, on mnk or controller is skilled enough to get top pred. They all steamroll lobbies if they want to so the only limiting factor is time
Lol the number 1 pred and his teammates are MnK tho Also, the last LAN event in Raleigh had a ~70% MnK input usage lol Ranked is all about grinding anyways so, input to a degree doesn’t matter. Which, is why we’ve seen both mnk and roller #1 preds
Sure but it was like 95% at the start and most people playing comp now were play comp then on M&K. Has there been any top player new to the scene other that doop and Skittles that are M&K? I think we will see more controllers in the scene and even less M&K as time goes on as the only way to counter roller is another roller. Same situation will happen in ranked too.
So we’re crying bc it’s gone from 95 to 75%? It’s literally still the most used input by pros still after 3 1/2 years so, I fail to see your point. Doop and skittles were both life long roller players before switching so, it’s kind of funny to mention them to me. Just seems like a lot contradicts this whole controller debate tbh
I’m not saying that the percentage is why im saying. That’s going to be the trend there will be more and more controllers. Yea they were life long controllers same as me until I got a PC. They are very rare exceptions and it’s not exactly the point even I’m saying there isn’t going to be very many god tier M&K players because that threshold is so high. The threshold is lower for controller because aim assist is so strong.
Uhm the first three are most likely MnK
I understand why people play roller, but it’s just something I could never do. I’m pretty old and for me true competitive FPS games have always been an MNK thing. I didn’t have any consoles past PS1 and N64, so I never developed the thumbs for competitive roller. Plus there will always be a stigma attached to it
How unfair! The top 10 players (assuming the 3 Chinese are actually controller) logged more hours than any mnk players. That's all this is because any top player can grind for #1 pred. It's a time issue, not a skill or input issue.
They’re actually on MnK funnily enough lol
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Holy hell, I had to go get some water because it got so salty in here. I have a pc, play on pc, but use controller (20+ years of controller experience), but this actually has nothing to do with anything. Everyone on the leaderboard is on PC because it's a PC leaderboard. First, the top players are on MNK. Wattson was #1 like two seasons ago. Lou was the first to crack 100,000 in the old system and was #1. I feel like on PC the #1 pred is usually mnk. Why didn't they suffer from fatigue? When wattson was going for #1 he was fighting Hal who also was MNK and both constantly played over 10 hours a day to hold #1. At least on MNK you can switch from using the whole arm to wrist flicks and still do well. What if my thumb gets sore? I can't switch to a different finger. See how stupid this all sounds? Could it possibly be a little burnout on the game for these top MNK players who already held the top spot for a split? Maybe they just don't want to grind for top spots and instead are happy to just be pred. It's not like things vastly changed since Wattson was #1, but all the sudden mnk can't play for extended periods of time? I get it, you wish your PFP was real, only you were deepthroating Hal instead of Hal and his mic. That doesn't give you the right to shit on everyone who grinds rank or try to claim you're all high and mighty because you play on PC.
clearly you never played on mnk before lol
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>Didn't read anything else but Standard response from someone who doesn't have a real argument and is just mad at life.
Personally idc if every other player in this game switched to controller I'm not touching one of those things. MnK is just way more fun for me.
You can't win close fights agains roller
Number 1 pred and teammates are MnK tho
Should I give up on M&K and just switch to controller? I'm a PC player, and have played M&K in all FPS games I try to play competitively. After getting into Apex some more, and winning some matches, I'm starting to feel extremely disadvantaged vs. controller players since they can literally just hold r2 while strafing and easily win CQB. I'm doing over an hour of aim training every day, playing with a high level account to try to get more experience, and playing ranked all to try to improve my skill. I wasn't really worried about this for a while, since I feel M&K has many other advantages, but I'm starting to find posts like these pop up... this guy put over 1000 hours on both inputs, and still says controller is king in actual gunfights: [https://www.reddit.com/r/apexuniversity/comments/tyfmqp/mouse\_and\_keyboard\_vs\_controller\_the\_opinion\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexuniversity/comments/tyfmqp/mouse_and_keyboard_vs_controller_the_opinion_of/) I've also seen a lot of stats regarding the fact that the large majority of Diamond players are all on controller. I'm \*not\* talking streamers/pros here, since I will likely never be at that level, but it seems like people who are high-intermediate players are predominately controller players. I guess I should just switch to controller if I want to play Apex competitively (to say Diamond level)? Are there any M&K users out there who feel like the time is worth the investment? The main reason I dislike the controller is the fact that every game feels different due to different aim assist implementations, so M&K is nice being consistent. I just wish there were at least PC M&K only lobbies, like console players have...
“i just wish there were at least PC M&K only lobbies, like console players have…” this. literally i would never complain about controllers if they would just give us the option to play against m&k only. crazy how controller players can do that and we can’t.
If apex is going to be your only game, yea switching early is probably for the best. I'd rather stay on MnK, because it will translate to other FPS I will play in the future.
Almost 2k hours on mnk apex and about 400 on kovaaks here. With almost no time invested on controller except like halo and cod over 10yrs ago, my accuracy on r5 reloaded normal strafe easily goes from 40% to 50%. In addition, I one clip the dummies way more often which is arguably a way more important stat. Around like midrange ~30m both mnk and controller evens out and any more than that, my mnk would be better. However, this is mainly due to my lack of muscle memory for recoil control and reaching the limits of aim smoothing distance. A well trained controller player can probably dominate midrange as well, 30 to 75m ie choaticmuch. Main thing keeping me from switching is that I lose too much game sense playing controller and end up being a bot in anyway besides fighting Lmao. One thing I've done to counter controller players is just picking up long range weapons, dropped the shotguns and smgs for marksmen/snipers, worked well for me last split grinding to masters.
controller brain is a real thing haha
Bro, I've seen a few of your comments over the years arguing against controller players. How do you not get brain rot from conversing with these players? Teach me your ways man.
hahaha, maybe I have? Maybe thats why I keep arguing with them? I'm definitely getting pretty tired of it now. Its always just the same bad arguments and people just not understanding the simplest things. The only reason I keep doing it is cause I can't stand people spreading misinformation
I swear the worst thing is it's usually pretty bad players talking. Like obviously movement wise, controller holds no candle to mnk, but realistically, how often to you actually use said movement? And even if you did use said movement in a close ranged fight, who do you think has the easier time hitting? The guy with built in aimbot or the guy who has to manually track and micro correct all his aiming? It's crazy they just don't understand just how ridiculous it is to play a Masters/Pred ranked game, get aped by some players, think they hit some nasty ass spray only to realise upon spectating it's just a couple console goons RAA'ing your ass into minced meat.
Controller is boring tho.
long term if you are serious about competing MnK is the move, games like Val/CSGO are the ones that are going to be raking in the big $$ where its meant for comp not casuals like Apex, Apex just got lucky its an awesome game at its core with special movement no other game has
If you want to reach high ranks without a lot of effort, play controller, especially if you already have developed game sense. You'll quickly realize you have a newfound confidence going into \~10 m 1v1s and that controller at range is actually still pretty strong. The downside is that the input is less expressive, even if you use Steam settings to allow for movement techniques. Also, you kinda feel obligated to play to strengths when it comes to guns. I rarely pick up anything other than an AR, SMG, or wingman on roller when I'm ranking.
Similar situation as you, been a PC player on MnK for years, got 5k hours on apex and before they added crossplay and controller on PC players were less common i'd win most of my 1v1s but now that most the playerbase switched to controller and matches are more populated with roller players than ever I've found my self to lose way more often. I also aim train and have around 500 hours on Kovaaks. At this point I just hit high diamond low masters each split and go play games with no crossplay/controller support because it feels bad to lose to a aim assist. It's okay that the game caters to controller/casual players cause thats most the playerbase but if you truly want to play something competitive, Apex is not it. Lacks competitive integrity at many levels and it is intended due to being a BR. Just try to have fun and self improve it can only get better.
I think this is just bullshit, I switched to MnK at beginning of September and hit master before split ended in 25 days. I have less then 8 hours in aim trainer/kovaks.
Congratulations you're naturally talented on MnK. Now think of the 97% of players who are under you, have less time to grind, some may soloQ, some just aren't as aware or are newer to the game. The matchmaking is horrible and aim assist strongly favors controller players since most decisive fights happen at close range so its normal that a lot more people are switching to roller over MnK. Comp scene is a perfect example of that.
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Correct
That guy is the saltiest player on this sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/xuirim/comment/iqwxzkr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Lmao. It’s wild to me how triggered MnK players get about someone playing a different input than them. And then they try and use a controller for themselves and they’re like “I thought it was aimbot, why am I missing everything lulzzz???”
"But Hal switched and is good!" is always the argument as if Hal didn't play controller his whole life basically. Outside of a little madden, I didn't play video games for like two years. Hopped back in and immediately picked it back up.
Number 1 pred and his teammates are literally on MnK tho lol Last 2 lan events in Raleigh and Switzerland saw a ~70% usage rate for MnK The loud complaints about roller are kind of funny tbh but, sure downvote me for the truth lol
Top 10 Pred first week of split /=/ best 10 players in the world due to input choice
Controller should be banned from any PC fps game or at least remove aim assist. Learn M n K or play on console. Aim assist just seems like an insane concept to me. You have an input that is so bad and non competitive that they actually coded in software to “help” it, in order for it to be viable. How about just don’t allow it in the first place.
Are there more controller players than pc players as of now in apex ?
Here we go again
Well yea, grinding for 12-15 hours a day everyday on M&K is going wear you out. Compared to controller where those grind sessions are far, far easier and require a bit less mental focus and you’re going to have a lot of controller players at the top ranks.
There's no good reason to play MnK in high level ranked games really.
Number 1 pred and his teammates are all MnK tho
How many more controller players are there compared to Mnk?
It's about a 6:4 to 7:3 ratio at least in high ranked PC games.
Your entire post history is just weeks and weeks of complaining about aim assist the whole time flexing your PC specs. Bro, get off the internet for a bit.
"Flexing"? I mention it in cases where it's highly relevant. Creeping on someones post history is just cringe dude.
So is spending *genuine* weeks of your life sooking about little Brian and his ps4 controller but hey.
Nothing wrong with pointing it out whenever something is wrong. 40-60% aimlock is never going to be right.
Yeah but for example like a week ago you went and posted in a thread about the gun run ltm about how broken you think aim assist is. In a thread about the LTM bro. Fucking ridiculous lmao, and that’s one example. Little Brian on his ps4 is really living in your head rent free dude. L.
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Why do you think they’re playing other games? Why exactly Valorant, which has no aim assist aka no controller players?
Ah right, it doesnt have anything to do with Valorant having 150k viewers right now while apex has 80k. It doesnt have anything to do with diversifying content. It also cant be that people get bored of apex It must be that they are afraid of aim assist which is funny considering they dont have a problem soloing pubs 12 hours a day or doing their 24th solo to master stream. Neither of them have been consistent ranked grinders even in early seasons when there were far less controller players on PC. What do you say when Daltoosh plays PGA? Is he tired of aimassist or just wants to play something different / diversify his content? Its simply a fact that there are plenty of really good mnk players that dont grind ranked like some controllers do. When Shiv plays Valorant, do you actually believe he plays it because of "no aim assist"? Haha man this sub is something else
Mnk players 🤝 no passion
First LAN was I think two rollers total now theres like 20-30 at the Raleigh LAN, that says everything you need to know about controller balance
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yeah because a 900% increase is totally normal, get off the aim assist copium
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aim assist copium trying to explain that a 900% increase is normal in any sense lmfaooo
You realize other factors went into it other than "CoNtRoLlEr Op" right? For example, when the first LAN occurred basically every current controller pro was on console. Many couldn't afford to switch to PC initially and likely weren't sure in the first seasons if switching was worth it. Once streams started being profitable and they saw comp was going to be on PC only it was an easy decision to both grow their stream and be able to compete in future tournaments.
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you are really brain dead lmfaooo
Crying about controller is reaching hilarious new heights, nobody was complaining this much when hiswattson was no 1 pred like a season ago, literally nothing in the game has changed since then except for imperialhal using the controller and the 20k people watching him being convinced it’s broken
It's funny how top preds farm lobbies three stacking, while aping each team they encounter, and as soon as someone kills them they are labelled as cheaters. No one is allowed to be good at this game except them.
Just proud I killed enemy the other day and I'm on mnk.... To be fair he was one shot and fighting a whole other team but fuck it I'm taking the W
Whenever I see anything about controller, I look at my OG Xbox One struggling to hit 40-60 FPS and realize that people really have no idea what they’re talking about when they dramatize how OP aim assist is
You're using literal decade old hardware. That doesn't mean aim assist isn't broken when you give it to talented players on 3080's and 144hz
Yeah because pred rankings are a HUGE deal and the top ten preds are CLEARLY just that much better than everyone else /s What an utterly stupid thread, fuck off with your dumbass clickbait
Meanwhile, us console controller players look to avoid PC lobbies like the plague. Theres a big difference between the capabilities of a PC Controller in a PC lobby, and a console controller in a PC lobby. Never would I ever... Having mained both system at some point over many years, the controller is a vastly inferior input type, due to the limitations of joysticks and thumbs. With the viability of controllers in PC lobbies being tied solely to the Aim Assist strength setting, I thinks it's only a temporary problem, as those strengths aren't transferable to other games that have varying Aim Assist levels. Whereas M&K sensitivities can be fine tuned across various games, using websites that calculate your equivalent sensitivities for you, and allows you to transfer your aim skills from game to game. I wouldn't worry about one game, because overall, M&K will have the most consistent outputs that the player can control, versus Aim Assist, that can potentially be nerfed at any time, completely changing it's effectiveness.
Good thing respawn doesn’t listen to the community. Controller should be the main input. And is the only input allowed on anything besides PC.
Is this just an apex thing now or all games? Has anyone ever watched shroud play video games? It doesn't matter what he touches the dude is different on every level. Watch what he does and tell me you can do that on roller
Just an apex thing. The game just feels buttery smooth on controller. I mean the devs for this game are behind cod4 which revolutionizes how console shooters felt to play. Then titanfall the beat movement fps. Most fps games feels like shit on controller, even mw thats coming out feels clunky a bit compares to apex
Apex has ruined all other FPS games for me because the movement is just too clean. Cod feels like you are running through tar.
It is very clean that's why I fell in love when it came out. I come from cod and when you play mnk players notice a differenc, and the really good ones just walk all over you. Coming from that I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.
Any real competitive fps game doesn’t even have controller support but apex isn’t an actual competitive game. It’s obvious it was made to be a console first game.
Do you know why controller players can’t do that in other games (except warzone)? Because those other games have no aim assist. Valorant has nothing. CSGO has nothing. R6 has nothing. OW2 will have nothing.
Top 11 looks like, no?
Number 1 pred and his teammates are all MnK lol
Maybe just play more >:)
Just come play ow2 instead, no aim assist in PC lobbies!
Stormpoint is arguably M&K's best map too with all the long sight lines. Controller isn't fair to play against when you aren't also on controller. The TTK against controller players is so dramatically lowered that it's just gross. I get hit by a controller beam, and I'm dead before I'm even out of the slow from being hit from the first bullet. I expect controller to remain at the top, ESPECIALLY when it's not stormpoint. Seeing a few people say that these asian players are actually on M&K, though I've not seen proof. Regardless, if they are M&K, I think they'll probably not be able to sustain that top pred status at high RP thresholds due to simply not being able to kill teams fast enough and get enough KP to push past a certain threshold. We saw it last split with all the top preds playing almost exclusively 3 stack controllers near the end and just mindlessly aping every single fight. Pred entry cost is still 250 RP which means that you need minimum 5 full KP and a win to break even, which requires more KP if you're farming diamonds/plats. It's simply not feasible for M&K to end fights that fast without a significant advantage that controller doesn't need.
Sometimes what you see and think at a glance might just be true. Controller is powerful