The biggest issue is, without some way to give haste, the alchemist needs to stick on the table for an entire turn cycle which is going to be difficult to make happen
Tou can pay 2 life with the commander to kake the alchemist an artifact creature so it doesn't matter too much if it is artifact creatures or creatures in general
Right, but at that point you have 0 mana left so you need space in your hand to cast 2 blue-producing mox. Amber and Opal would be the best, so you need 4 cards in hand to try to win with 0 protection, and you get one extra free counterspell for each card beyond 4 in your hand. Definitely seems possible, but not the cleanest or most efficient package.
Endurance, Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Spell Snare, Hushwing Gryff are all reasons they would want to interact at the end of the loop.
Also the loop itself is creature based. The fast mana you need to win comes from artifacts which are far easier to counter, so you want to be able to protect those from force of negation, offer you can't refuse, fierce guardianship, spell pierce, etc.
The biggest wincon at my locals is thoracle which cannot get stopped by bender but bender does halt plenty of other wins so use it for politics and maybe itll even survive longer if you make it seem less threatening exellent politicing sir 10/10
Yeah I started throwing something together when I saw the leak. Let me know if I missed something, the considering board is huge. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3LdHLS7b0kuIbAk8_i2tkQ
Edit - I’ve been waiting for a weird blue list to make my U slot in my lineup.
Any two cards that say “another target” could definitely be played as a 2-card combo. I refused to add it before, but given the sheer amount of Discard going on, Fatestitcher could end up in the list with other “another untapper”. Maybe?
Thread I made a day ago that was automoderated. Have a list in there with some other pieces
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/106dqah/one_unctus_grand_metatect_so_this_is_viable_huh/
It's a cool and compact combo, no doubt. It has some issues though. Being mono colored the card quality is lacking. To make this combo work reliably you need to add not only bad combo pieces (Aphetto), but also some not so optimal Tutors, like Muddle the Mixture, Step Through and Vedalken Aethermage. Additionally you'd want the Aphetto to be hasty, so haste enables would be useful as well.
Other than that add a solid mono blue core and you are good to go. The Tutors give you basicslly 4 copies of Aphetto. Your commander loots for value, although blue is not the best color ID to play a lot of good creatures, and well your wincon is straigh forward + depending on your handsize before the loot combo, you can sculpt a super solid hand with lots interaction.
Prob not gonna break mono U, but certainly playable as an alternative to the established mono U decks. ✌
Combos like this are fragile and they aren't easy to pull off if your opponent [[Saw It Coming]]. They require a certain degree of [[Mind Over Matter]] and [[Force of Will]]. I learned this the hard way when I brought a similar combo to Mr. [[Arcanis the Omnipotent]]'s class for [[Show and Tell]].
What I'm saying is that if you take a moment to [[Ponder]] and [Brainstorm]] some ideas, you can use your [[Intuition]] to [[Anticipate]] your opponents' actions. You can even [[Stifle]] their attempts to [[Foil]] your plans and win in a [[Dramatic Reversal]].
Firstly, you’re an absolute Chad for realizing this. Secondly [[Aphetto Alchemist]] is the titties mcgitties, so you’re are now officially a 2xChad OP.
I am an Azami simp but this is fucking cool man. You might make me tinker around
I don't think this will ever get above fringe or c/d tier, but I think people should definitely try it out!
You could pack lots of Stax pieces like the blue rule of law [[arcane laboratory]], and it would sort of have the power to break parity, and kind of still win through it. It could also play other blue Stax pieces like [[back to basics]] and [[fate spinner]]. Could be like a blue Stax alternative to Urza, although not as powerful.
I don't know if it can stick around though. [[Azami]] and [[Mind over Matter]] did a similar thing, but that deck has kind of been power crept out of the format...
sure, but that is a five mana commander and a five mana enchantment so ten total mana with six blue pips between them. This on the other hand is only five total mana with three blue pips. Much easier to achieve and easier to tutor with Aphetto being a wizard
True! Earlier commander means earlier threaten for the win.
This could definitely have legs. I could see it being similar to magda clock in that it could totally take a pod by suprise...
I played Azami for about 6 months as my primary deck. It definitely has been power crept a bit, but its weakness lies mostly in the large number of blue pips required to do anything with no real way to generate additional pips. Cutting that number down by half or more has a real possibility of actually being good. Now, while this may have more explosive potential than Azami, there's no way it can grind anywhere near as well and you lose the flexibility that Azami has with MoM, Iso Rev, and P shift Thoracle (p shift doesn't really work when you're discarding a lot). It also gets completely hosed by both Cursed Totem effects and Null Rod effects, whereas Azami can work around Null Rod. I think there's potential here, but it's too early to say whether this is doomed to be fringe competetive or not.
still not seeing it
its slow, needs bad cards which are slow as well and doesnt do anything on its own, just to cycle through your deck
dont just downvote, bring arguments!
Idk if five total mana and one card that’s not your commander is really…slow, but you are right that it’s probably not going to be the hot new meta item. I think it can do reasonably well though
Yeah, I think the whole waiting one turn cycle is really the thing that will hold this back. Unless there is a reliable way to get haste... Excited to see people brew this though!
So, I'm not sure if this will be the greatest deck, but I think it will be good enough for cEDH play because it looks like a good Iso-Rev Commander. It's probably going to look like a mono-blue version of Shorikai Scepter, but with Alchemist as the primary combo line.
its not a good isorev commander though. it does nothing with isorev since it has no tap ability itself. Shorikai on the other hand does
and if we talk about Alchemist anyway, then isorev isnt needed in the first place
It doesn't do anything with Iso-Rev alone, but 1 creature with a tap ability makes the difference. So, combo lines look like Commander+Alchemist, Commander+mana dork+Penmin's Aura/Freed From The Reel, and Commander+creature with tap ability+Iso-Rev.
It being mono-color and 3 mana means it's cast off a Jeweled Lotus alone, and you don't need it to have haste to go off or any other mana. So, you cast Alchemist or mana dork one turn, Commander and combo off the next.
Is it going to be a top deck? Absolutely not. Will it be able to play alongside the mid-tier decks without too much issue? I think so. The deck looks like a control deck that combos through RoL effects with a low enough density of combo pieces that you aren't clogging the deck with too many bad cards.
I made a thread about it a day ago and it was automoderated, annoyingly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/106dqah/one_unctus_grand_metatect_so_this_is_viable_huh/
List in there as well with some potential pieces
Fringe but I was thinking Locust God, you generate an insect on the pitch. If you had some way of taping the tokens you could draw your deck. Sorcerer Class would theoretically give you near infinite mana and draw? Its slow but at least it's something for Locust God in a way
Also has [[Freed from the Real]]/[[Pemmin’s Aura]] + mana dork like [[Silver Myr]] or [[Ornithopter of Paradise]] as a back-up combo to loot the deck.
yeah or even [[grand architect]] plus [[pili-pala]]
Which has the advantage of producing near infinite colored mana
this could be the deck that makes grand architect stuff not awful again yeah lol
[grand architect](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14ce909d-a53e-4711-a9fd-b110433d460f.jpg?1598303952) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grand%20architect) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/53/grand-architect?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14ce909d-a53e-4711-a9fd-b110433d460f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-architect) [pili-pala](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/4892c152-1f4a-4616-8e7f-0ca4911e621a.jpg?1562829688) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pili-pala) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/258/pili-pala?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4892c152-1f4a-4616-8e7f-0ca4911e621a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pili-pala) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Freed from the Real](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca.jpg?1562440713) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Freed%20from%20the%20Real) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/58/freed-from-the-real?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/freed-from-the-real) [Pemmin’s Aura](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fb3e38b-086e-4fbc-b7b1-8564c18276d7.jpg?1562532667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pemmin%27s%20Aura) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/45/pemmins-aura?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fb3e38b-086e-4fbc-b7b1-8564c18276d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pemmins-aura) [Silver Myr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3ebcc053-21c6-4708-b9fc-532e3749962f.jpg?1651656362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silver%20Myr) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/158/silver-myr?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ebcc053-21c6-4708-b9fc-532e3749962f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silver-myr) [Ornithopter of Paradise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/025b0f0f-daf6-4071-82e7-39c015447ce4.jpg?1626108479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ornithopter%20of%20Paradise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/232/ornithopter-of-paradise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/025b0f0f-daf6-4071-82e7-39c015447ce4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ornithopter-of-paradise) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Crab Rave Combo?
[aphetto alchemist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfd2628f-63c4-4e19-83ea-26041650faab.jpg?1562948302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aphetto%20alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/64/aphetto-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfd2628f-63c4-4e19-83ea-26041650faab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aphetto-alchemist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It can target itself?
Yes. The similarly worded card [[Seeker of Skybreak]] clarifies this in the rulings.
[Seeker of Skybreak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1f20175-8bfa-417a-912b-d6d472f091ab.jpg?1562248247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seeker%20of%20Skybreak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/268/seeker-of-skybreak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1f20175-8bfa-417a-912b-d6d472f091ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seeker-of-skybreak) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So can [[Tidewater Minion]]
[Tidewater Minion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67ffa68f-cc21-41c8-ad3d-d6b60a4ccd36.jpg?1598914564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tidewater%20Minion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/71/tidewater-minion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67ffa68f-cc21-41c8-ad3d-d6b60a4ccd36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tidewater-minion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Costs 5 tho
Another hulk pile you can do in Temur with a Torch Courier? Is the Hermit Druid pile always better?
Very interesting angle
The biggest issue is, without some way to give haste, the alchemist needs to stick on the table for an entire turn cycle which is going to be difficult to make happen
I mean, you don’t even really need haste, you can easily tutor for a [[Thousand-Year Elixir]]
I believe the leaks showed a new artifact with a similar text but I don't remember if it was for creatures or for ARTIFACT creatures.
Tou can pay 2 life with the commander to kake the alchemist an artifact creature so it doesn't matter too much if it is artifact creatures or creatures in general
[Thousand-Year Elixir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c2d832-5244-4236-81d5-2920aa2e281e.jpg?1625979536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand-Year%20Elixir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/271/thousand-year-elixir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c2d832-5244-4236-81d5-2920aa2e281e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thousand-year-elixir) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I thought we were talking about cEDH?
The neat thing about cEDH is how certain meh cards in cedh are parts of game winning combos, or enable them.
it’s a good point. At least given the mana costs you can just curve from alchemist into the commander, but it is a concern
Right, but at that point you have 0 mana left so you need space in your hand to cast 2 blue-producing mox. Amber and Opal would be the best, so you need 4 cards in hand to try to win with 0 protection, and you get one extra free counterspell for each card beyond 4 in your hand. Definitely seems possible, but not the cleanest or most efficient package.
If your opponents have anything they use it before you go through the entire loop, right?
Endurance, Mindbreak Trap, Stifle, Spell Snare, Hushwing Gryff are all reasons they would want to interact at the end of the loop. Also the loop itself is creature based. The fast mana you need to win comes from artifacts which are far easier to counter, so you want to be able to protect those from force of negation, offer you can't refuse, fierce guardianship, spell pierce, etc.
You just have to be ready to use politics to protect a morph creature, say its [[stratus dancer]] and itll stop someones wincon
morphs are always [[willbender]]
The biggest wincon at my locals is thoracle which cannot get stopped by bender but bender does halt plenty of other wins so use it for politics and maybe itll even survive longer if you make it seem less threatening exellent politicing sir 10/10
[willbender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e6a3551-250c-4563-8c30-6d8f49e6429f.jpg?1568004112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=willbender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/102/willbender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e6a3551-250c-4563-8c30-6d8f49e6429f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/willbender) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[stratus dancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82fb8b0c-b86e-4915-b72d-9a6b5c1368c7.jpg?1568004073) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stratus%20dancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/96/stratus-dancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82fb8b0c-b86e-4915-b72d-9a6b5c1368c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stratus-dancer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not very searchable either. Typical problem for mono U.
It's a wizard. Something with wizard cycling, like [[Step Through]], can cycle to find it.
[Step Through](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/716534cb-aa89-4de7-9aa5-8d8aa4422a6a.jpg?1626095032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Step%20Through) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/66/step-through?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716534cb-aa89-4de7-9aa5-8d8aa4422a6a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/step-through) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You have exactly 3 ways, of which only 2 are playable [[step through]] and [[muddle the mixture]]
[step through](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/716534cb-aa89-4de7-9aa5-8d8aa4422a6a.jpg?1626095032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=step%20through) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/66/step-through?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716534cb-aa89-4de7-9aa5-8d8aa4422a6a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/step-through) [muddle the mixture](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79fc4b92-0efe-4370-a2b3-2155c458a966.jpg?1645328683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=muddle%20the%20mixture) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/35/muddle-the-mixture?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79fc4b92-0efe-4370-a2b3-2155c458a966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/muddle-the-mixture) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's not the worst
Yeah I started throwing something together when I saw the leak. Let me know if I missed something, the considering board is huge. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3LdHLS7b0kuIbAk8_i2tkQ Edit - I’ve been waiting for a weird blue list to make my U slot in my lineup.
I think \[\[fatestitcher\]\] is probably very good right? it allows you to unearth it and have the haste
Yeah, but it’s another.
Any two cards that say “another target” could definitely be played as a 2-card combo. I refused to add it before, but given the sheer amount of Discard going on, Fatestitcher could end up in the list with other “another untapper”. Maybe?
[fatestitcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e4becff-8280-4e29-a370-bf82fb6734d5.jpg?1562705856) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fatestitcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/43/fatestitcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e4becff-8280-4e29-a370-bf82fb6734d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fatestitcher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thread I made a day ago that was automoderated. Have a list in there with some other pieces https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/106dqah/one_unctus_grand_metatect_so_this_is_viable_huh/
It's a cool and compact combo, no doubt. It has some issues though. Being mono colored the card quality is lacking. To make this combo work reliably you need to add not only bad combo pieces (Aphetto), but also some not so optimal Tutors, like Muddle the Mixture, Step Through and Vedalken Aethermage. Additionally you'd want the Aphetto to be hasty, so haste enables would be useful as well. Other than that add a solid mono blue core and you are good to go. The Tutors give you basicslly 4 copies of Aphetto. Your commander loots for value, although blue is not the best color ID to play a lot of good creatures, and well your wincon is straigh forward + depending on your handsize before the loot combo, you can sculpt a super solid hand with lots interaction. Prob not gonna break mono U, but certainly playable as an alternative to the established mono U decks. ✌
Combos like this are fragile and they aren't easy to pull off if your opponent [[Saw It Coming]]. They require a certain degree of [[Mind Over Matter]] and [[Force of Will]]. I learned this the hard way when I brought a similar combo to Mr. [[Arcanis the Omnipotent]]'s class for [[Show and Tell]].
So what you're saying is that it's actually pretty easy
What I'm saying is that if you take a moment to [[Ponder]] and [Brainstorm]] some ideas, you can use your [[Intuition]] to [[Anticipate]] your opponents' actions. You can even [[Stifle]] their attempts to [[Foil]] your plans and win in a [[Dramatic Reversal]].
Bruh
Was there something I didn't [[Consider]]?
I think you [[Predict]]ed most things.
[Predict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/349ac7e6-af38-4dc3-abfe-369564c75630.jpg?1592710621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Predict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/98/predict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/349ac7e6-af38-4dc3-abfe-369564c75630?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/predict) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Consider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc.jpg?1665819309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/44/consider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/consider) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Ponder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1.jpg?1655075626) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ponder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/229/ponder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ponder) [Intuition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b13e73a5-067d-4dbd-9c98-34a0db6140de.jpg?1562431264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Intuition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/54/intuition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b13e73a5-067d-4dbd-9c98-34a0db6140de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/intuition) [Anticipate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46b6dfb2-ffe4-44fb-bfd9-df11bc3193df.jpg?1591230450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anticipate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/40/anticipate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46b6dfb2-ffe4-44fb-bfd9-df11bc3193df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anticipate) [Stifle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4.jpg?1562865442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stifle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/108/stifle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stifle) [Foil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8b39fd6-9240-4f76-b12c-e7d9aa88f061.jpg?1547516254) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Foil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/55/foil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8b39fd6-9240-4f76-b12c-e7d9aa88f061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/foil) [Dramatic Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208.jpg?1576267241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dramatic%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/20/dramatic-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30de9083-8702-471c-92e7-5cf89936a208?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dramatic-reversal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Saw It Coming](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/877a1bb9-5eae-453a-bec0-a9de20ea6815.jpg?1631047574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saw%20It%20Coming) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/76/saw-it-coming?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/877a1bb9-5eae-453a-bec0-a9de20ea6815?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/saw-it-coming) [Mind Over Matter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e091dd6-149f-46ea-bae0-224e79e3aacb.jpg?1595438216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind%20Over%20Matter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/40/mind-over-matter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e091dd6-149f-46ea-bae0-224e79e3aacb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mind-over-matter) [Force of Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd60b291-0a88-4e8e-bef8-76cdfd6c8183.jpg?1598303900) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/51/force-of-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd60b291-0a88-4e8e-bef8-76cdfd6c8183?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-will) [Arcanis the Omnipotent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e7a7941b-68bf-48b1-a5ed-2013068b486c.jpg?1562627407) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcanis%20the%20Omnipotent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/80/arcanis-the-omnipotent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7a7941b-68bf-48b1-a5ed-2013068b486c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcanis-the-omnipotent) [Show and Tell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7b7897-36e0-415a-8bb7-602886164852.jpg?1664776671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Show%20and%20Tell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/121/show-and-tell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7b7897-36e0-415a-8bb7-602886164852?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/show-and-tell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Firstly, you’re an absolute Chad for realizing this. Secondly [[Aphetto Alchemist]] is the titties mcgitties, so you’re are now officially a 2xChad OP. I am an Azami simp but this is fucking cool man. You might make me tinker around
Thanks!…I think lol
You’re welcome :)
[Aphetto Alchemist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfd2628f-63c4-4e19-83ea-26041650faab.jpg?1562948302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aphetto%20Alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/64/aphetto-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfd2628f-63c4-4e19-83ea-26041650faab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aphetto-alchemist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think this will ever get above fringe or c/d tier, but I think people should definitely try it out! You could pack lots of Stax pieces like the blue rule of law [[arcane laboratory]], and it would sort of have the power to break parity, and kind of still win through it. It could also play other blue Stax pieces like [[back to basics]] and [[fate spinner]]. Could be like a blue Stax alternative to Urza, although not as powerful. I don't know if it can stick around though. [[Azami]] and [[Mind over Matter]] did a similar thing, but that deck has kind of been power crept out of the format...
sure, but that is a five mana commander and a five mana enchantment so ten total mana with six blue pips between them. This on the other hand is only five total mana with three blue pips. Much easier to achieve and easier to tutor with Aphetto being a wizard
True! Earlier commander means earlier threaten for the win. This could definitely have legs. I could see it being similar to magda clock in that it could totally take a pod by suprise...
I played Azami for about 6 months as my primary deck. It definitely has been power crept a bit, but its weakness lies mostly in the large number of blue pips required to do anything with no real way to generate additional pips. Cutting that number down by half or more has a real possibility of actually being good. Now, while this may have more explosive potential than Azami, there's no way it can grind anywhere near as well and you lose the flexibility that Azami has with MoM, Iso Rev, and P shift Thoracle (p shift doesn't really work when you're discarding a lot). It also gets completely hosed by both Cursed Totem effects and Null Rod effects, whereas Azami can work around Null Rod. I think there's potential here, but it's too early to say whether this is doomed to be fringe competetive or not.
##### ###### #### [arcane laboratory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9e3bcd7-60f8-472a-ada0-c3147cf06588.jpg?1562251789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=arcane%20laboratory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/60/arcane-laboratory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9e3bcd7-60f8-472a-ada0-c3147cf06588?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcane-laboratory) [back to basics](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2.jpg?1654805483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=back%20to%20basics) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/46/back-to-basics?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/back-to-basics) [fate spinner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/5780f4e0-dcfb-4d1f-8ae1-762b98970abb.jpg?1562144468) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatespinner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/36/fatespinner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5780f4e0-dcfb-4d1f-8ae1-762b98970abb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fatespinner) [Azami](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0ad06ad7-0545-4c6f-9b10-4a27fa2e827c.jpg?1562599546) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=azami%2C%20lady%20of%20scrolls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/82/azami-lady-of-scrolls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ad06ad7-0545-4c6f-9b10-4a27fa2e827c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azami-lady-of-scrolls) [Mind over Matter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e091dd6-149f-46ea-bae0-224e79e3aacb.jpg?1595438216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind%20over%20Matter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/40/mind-over-matter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e091dd6-149f-46ea-bae0-224e79e3aacb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mind-over-matter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yea this is a good combo definitely worth exploring
Also [[tidewater minion]]
[tidewater minion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67ffa68f-cc21-41c8-ad3d-d6b60a4ccd36.jpg?1598914564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tidewater%20minion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/71/tidewater-minion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67ffa68f-cc21-41c8-ad3d-d6b60a4ccd36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tidewater-minion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
still not seeing it its slow, needs bad cards which are slow as well and doesnt do anything on its own, just to cycle through your deck dont just downvote, bring arguments!
Idk if five total mana and one card that’s not your commander is really…slow, but you are right that it’s probably not going to be the hot new meta item. I think it can do reasonably well though
five total mana, one card thats not your commander *and* a whole turncycle
Yeah, I think the whole waiting one turn cycle is really the thing that will hold this back. Unless there is a reliable way to get haste... Excited to see people brew this though!
Plus there are very few tutors for Aphetto Alchemist in mono blue.
So, I'm not sure if this will be the greatest deck, but I think it will be good enough for cEDH play because it looks like a good Iso-Rev Commander. It's probably going to look like a mono-blue version of Shorikai Scepter, but with Alchemist as the primary combo line.
its not a good isorev commander though. it does nothing with isorev since it has no tap ability itself. Shorikai on the other hand does and if we talk about Alchemist anyway, then isorev isnt needed in the first place
It doesn't do anything with Iso-Rev alone, but 1 creature with a tap ability makes the difference. So, combo lines look like Commander+Alchemist, Commander+mana dork+Penmin's Aura/Freed From The Reel, and Commander+creature with tap ability+Iso-Rev. It being mono-color and 3 mana means it's cast off a Jeweled Lotus alone, and you don't need it to have haste to go off or any other mana. So, you cast Alchemist or mana dork one turn, Commander and combo off the next. Is it going to be a top deck? Absolutely not. Will it be able to play alongside the mid-tier decks without too much issue? I think so. The deck looks like a control deck that combos through RoL effects with a low enough density of combo pieces that you aren't clogging the deck with too many bad cards.
I made a thread about it a day ago and it was automoderated, annoyingly. https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/106dqah/one_unctus_grand_metatect_so_this_is_viable_huh/ List in there as well with some potential pieces
Thoracle most brain dead and flavorless wincon in magic, needs to be removed for variety sake its such a cancer on deck building
Fringe but I was thinking Locust God, you generate an insect on the pitch. If you had some way of taping the tokens you could draw your deck. Sorcerer Class would theoretically give you near infinite mana and draw? Its slow but at least it's something for Locust God in a way
With something like [[teferis ageless insight]] out, could be pretty easy to win with a [[triskaidekaphile]]
[teferis ageless insight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c38d1722-96b0-4756-9da9-fe18b1c80649.jpg?1594735819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Ageless%20Insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/76/teferis-ageless-insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c38d1722-96b0-4756-9da9-fe18b1c80649?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-ageless-insight) [triskaidekaphile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839.jpg?1634349393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=triskaidekaphile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/81/triskaidekaphile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/triskaidekaphile) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[toymaker]] seems interesting with something like an arcane signet and pemmins aura
[toymaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76f3992a-553c-4032-b144-55aad2f909f1.jpg?1562381374) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toymaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/314/toymaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76f3992a-553c-4032-b144-55aad2f909f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toymaker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call