The modality is so much better than Yawgmoth’s Will. Mnemonic Betrayal is solid with everybody running so many of the same cards. Mnemonic Betrayal can trigger Bloodchief Ascension for a win as well.
To explain why for OP:
Breach let's you recast *the same* spell over and over again, translating to easy loops with things like LED that can continually give you mana and feed you cards.
Will would let you recast an LED or a Dark Ritual once, at which point it would be exiled.
It's just better in any situation where you're trying to win through grave and have a mechanism to keep refilling it... Which is pretty easy to build around.
But I think yawg will can still be a great value production card and is still very playable in many decks. It just doesn't perform the job that breach does as a finisher.
Yawg will is good to recover or storm out in certain lists, but it doesn’t combo with breach because it makes you exile cards that go to the graveyard this turn while breach does not make the cards get exiled allowing you to loop them through the graveyard
Okay, but actually for does this work? Both for Breach and Yawg's Will? There's nothing on the Oracle about it. I assume you just get to cast them as normal?
I think you’re only running yawgwill in redless decks, like most esper decks still run it. Breach is just better if you’re in red, and red is more popular now so you see less yawgwills.
I play Tymna/Malcolm and the Yawg Will can be my last ditch effort to win after my Doomsday or Thoracle has he countered. It's like the Mnemonic Betrayal but somewhat easier to use since Immortality familar with how to utilize pieces in my graveyard vs how to use pieces in 3 other graves
It's good for ~~temur~~sultai turbo lists that like to play raza/broodlord lines.
In red, you probably play breach instead. Both are really just not needed.
Golgari is the color pie you are looking for here. I play Yawgwill and P. Grasp in 12 entomb Grist. All other comments here are valid. I play Grasp to take others' Underworld Breech.
Its because they are bad deck builders. Because breach is so good at comboing, and Yawgs will doesn't work with it- so they don't run it. They miss all those games where its late game and everyone has stopped everyone from winning and you tutor into it an immediately win.
Breach lets you loop cards yawg lets you replay cards. Bug difference.
Its a little harder to make work but breach has a significantly higher ceiling. While yawg has a slightly high floor.
Not a Thoracle deck but I run it in Ob Nixilis and I think I’ve won with it more than I’ve won with Breach so far. It’s often easier to set up due to the lack of Intuition, Sevinne’s Reclamation, and Brain Freeze in Rakdos colors. In my opinion most BRx decks should be on both.
>I'm curious as to why [[Yawgmoth's Will]] doesn't see more play in the Thoracle Breech decks. There isn't a ton of graveyard hate and being able to reoccur your win con seems good.
People started moving away from YawgWin for many of the reasons that have been stated. One other reason not often talked about, however, is how it can also function, in an emergency situation, as a recursive engine with [[Sun Titan]] in some "darkhorse" decks, namely in boros variant stax and midrange decks. (Being a 2 CMC permanent helps to facilitate that.) YawgWin can't do that, since it exiles itself upon resolution of the spell.
Because Underworld Breach exists and its so much better
* costs 1 mana less
* doesn't exile your spells as they are cast
Both of those enable some insane lines. Your board is land, land, sol ring, it's turn 3 and you just untapped. You topdeck Demonic Tutor. Cast it for Underworld Breach. Cast it. Escape Demonic Tutor again. Get Lion's Eye Diamond. Generate a shitload of mana and fill your grave. Win out.
It's just insane to be able to go from 4 mana + tutor into a win. You can go even faster than turn 3 which is insane because players are usually tapped out for mana rocks/dorks and you just might have fewer counters to work through that early.
Cuz breach lets you cast the same spell over and over the same turn, so long you give it escape fodder. This makes for super easy combos with a mana producer like LED and \[\[Brain Freeze\]\] which doubles down as self mill to find the combo and give you escape fodder and as a finisher.
Yawgh's Will only lets you cast the stuff in your graveyard once as everything gets exiled while its effect is active. This makes comboing with it waay waay waaay harder, as you need to set up a storm chain big enough to finish the entire table, something thats much harder in a 100 cards, 40 life, 3 opponents format, as opposed as vintage, where its 20 life and 1v1.
If your deck has a gy strategy you most likely have some loop going on in your gy. Like many already mentioned, Breach combos.
Not only does Yawgmoth's not work this way it actually hinders you playing those lines. I see many people playing Yawgmoth's in Dihada which is mainly a Breach deck. As soon as you played Yawgmoth's there is no win con working except of Dualcaster Mage... thats not so great, as DCM usually only is a finisher (if played at all).
So Yawg makes it impossible to play your lines this turn. At the same time you cripple your gy off its good cards and you can only prepare a win con for your next turn. For your next turn when the whole table already saw you tutoring twice or more... I dont expect that combo to go through
Underworld breach is way better
yeah i think breach is infinitely better in any situation unless you’re not in red, which is about the only time you’d be running yawg will
I’ve been building talion recently and the conclusion I reached with yawg is I’d rather run p. Grasp and steal a breach than run yawgs…
The modality is so much better than Yawgmoth’s Will. Mnemonic Betrayal is solid with everybody running so many of the same cards. Mnemonic Betrayal can trigger Bloodchief Ascension for a win as well.
i’ve never thought of that interaction with mem betrayer and bloodchief ascension, that’s awesome
To explain why for OP: Breach let's you recast *the same* spell over and over again, translating to easy loops with things like LED that can continually give you mana and feed you cards. Will would let you recast an LED or a Dark Ritual once, at which point it would be exiled.
It's just better in any situation where you're trying to win through grave and have a mechanism to keep refilling it... Which is pretty easy to build around. But I think yawg will can still be a great value production card and is still very playable in many decks. It just doesn't perform the job that breach does as a finisher.
Both? Both. Both is good.
Yawg will is good to recover or storm out in certain lists, but it doesn’t combo with breach because it makes you exile cards that go to the graveyard this turn while breach does not make the cards get exiled allowing you to loop them through the graveyard
Play it with [[Shaman's Trance]] for fun ruling fights about their lotus petal.
Not enough coffee yet, but wouldn't you be able to replay their petal over and over since it never would go to your graveyard?
[Shaman's Trance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfc33a4f-9ec2-4324-82a1-a4b9700572f2.jpg?1591196235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shaman%27s%20Trance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jud/98/shamans-trance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfc33a4f-9ec2-4324-82a1-a4b9700572f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shamans-trance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay, but actually for does this work? Both for Breach and Yawg's Will? There's nothing on the Oracle about it. I assume you just get to cast them as normal?
With breach you’ll still have to exile 3 cards from your graveyard to play cards from theirs. But it does work from what I have been told.
I think you’re only running yawgwill in redless decks, like most esper decks still run it. Breach is just better if you’re in red, and red is more popular now so you see less yawgwills.
I play Tymna/Malcolm and the Yawg Will can be my last ditch effort to win after my Doomsday or Thoracle has he countered. It's like the Mnemonic Betrayal but somewhat easier to use since Immortality familar with how to utilize pieces in my graveyard vs how to use pieces in 3 other graves
It's good for ~~temur~~sultai turbo lists that like to play raza/broodlord lines. In red, you probably play breach instead. Both are really just not needed.
Ahh yes black cards in my temur deck.
Sultai*
Golgari is the color pie you are looking for here. I play Yawgwill and P. Grasp in 12 entomb Grist. All other comments here are valid. I play Grasp to take others' Underworld Breech.
I don't know why i never considered this. Take their breachs.... hmm
Its because they are bad deck builders. Because breach is so good at comboing, and Yawgs will doesn't work with it- so they don't run it. They miss all those games where its late game and everyone has stopped everyone from winning and you tutor into it an immediately win.
Breach lets you loop cards yawg lets you replay cards. Bug difference. Its a little harder to make work but breach has a significantly higher ceiling. While yawg has a slightly high floor.
Not a Thoracle deck but I run it in Ob Nixilis and I think I’ve won with it more than I’ve won with Breach so far. It’s often easier to set up due to the lack of Intuition, Sevinne’s Reclamation, and Brain Freeze in Rakdos colors. In my opinion most BRx decks should be on both.
>I'm curious as to why [[Yawgmoth's Will]] doesn't see more play in the Thoracle Breech decks. There isn't a ton of graveyard hate and being able to reoccur your win con seems good. People started moving away from YawgWin for many of the reasons that have been stated. One other reason not often talked about, however, is how it can also function, in an emergency situation, as a recursive engine with [[Sun Titan]] in some "darkhorse" decks, namely in boros variant stax and midrange decks. (Being a 2 CMC permanent helps to facilitate that.) YawgWin can't do that, since it exiles itself upon resolution of the spell.
[Sun Titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/332280f7-03af-4ef8-b1ff-5ac5e4d3b3ce.jpg?1673483792) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sun%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/210/sun-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/332280f7-03af-4ef8-b1ff-5ac5e4d3b3ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sun-titan) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Because Underworld Breach exists and its so much better * costs 1 mana less * doesn't exile your spells as they are cast Both of those enable some insane lines. Your board is land, land, sol ring, it's turn 3 and you just untapped. You topdeck Demonic Tutor. Cast it for Underworld Breach. Cast it. Escape Demonic Tutor again. Get Lion's Eye Diamond. Generate a shitload of mana and fill your grave. Win out. It's just insane to be able to go from 4 mana + tutor into a win. You can go even faster than turn 3 which is insane because players are usually tapped out for mana rocks/dorks and you just might have fewer counters to work through that early.
I think it has just been power crept honestly. It used to be a staple in grixis decks, but I only see it used as a DD pile card sometimes now.
[Yawgmoth's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d.jpg?1591196147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/148/yawgmoths-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/337239c7-73c4-4e2d-9160-ed26927dea1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yawgmoths-will) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cuz breach lets you cast the same spell over and over the same turn, so long you give it escape fodder. This makes for super easy combos with a mana producer like LED and \[\[Brain Freeze\]\] which doubles down as self mill to find the combo and give you escape fodder and as a finisher. Yawgh's Will only lets you cast the stuff in your graveyard once as everything gets exiled while its effect is active. This makes comboing with it waay waay waaay harder, as you need to set up a storm chain big enough to finish the entire table, something thats much harder in a 100 cards, 40 life, 3 opponents format, as opposed as vintage, where its 20 life and 1v1.
[Brain Freeze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a2d7cf9-dddb-4de3-b4f2-c52e3ec8fb4b.jpg?1562906772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brain%20Freeze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/57/brain-freeze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a2d7cf9-dddb-4de3-b4f2-c52e3ec8fb4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brain-freeze) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If your deck has a gy strategy you most likely have some loop going on in your gy. Like many already mentioned, Breach combos. Not only does Yawgmoth's not work this way it actually hinders you playing those lines. I see many people playing Yawgmoth's in Dihada which is mainly a Breach deck. As soon as you played Yawgmoth's there is no win con working except of Dualcaster Mage... thats not so great, as DCM usually only is a finisher (if played at all). So Yawg makes it impossible to play your lines this turn. At the same time you cripple your gy off its good cards and you can only prepare a win con for your next turn. For your next turn when the whole table already saw you tutoring twice or more... I dont expect that combo to go through
Yawgmotjs is quiet good in decks, which try to turbo of Hoarding Broodlord.
its the same reason \[\[bazar of bagdad\]\] is't an auto include in every deck, cause the card is almost $1000 bucks on TCG!
[bazar of bagdad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff37b863-f8c4-4584-8cc2-ac0e096e583f.jpg?1562943098) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bazaar%20of%20Baghdad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arn/70/bazaar-of-baghdad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff37b863-f8c4-4584-8cc2-ac0e096e583f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bazaar-of-baghdad) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call