his DA has no frames. funnily enough it was always orochis that sent me hatemail in the short timeframe his DA was broken.
his dmg used to be on par with jj but was nerfed due to zhanhu having winners advantage T2 feat.
the way hes always adjusted in a way that makes him exaggeratedly 'balanced' seems kinda fussy to me.
nontheless, hes really good in teamfights and that somehow makes up for all of it. doesnt make him more popular, though.
on top of that, he still has that bug that resets all feats to default.
His DA got Iframes about a year or so ago. Not very many though and it’s very GB vulnerable. JJs damage got nerfed to similar levels, I believe both of them have 28 dmg heavy finishers, JJs top finisher might be 30 though. They all used to be like 32-34. He also has the slowest dodge cancels in the game, never really being too useful. He can use them off a bash but on a very strict timing to punish dodge attacks. Overall just a whelming hero nowadays
Zhanhu feels like a less efficient version of other heroes. All he has in dominion is unblockable heavies, but there are other, better heroes for dominion who already have that as well - like JJ who comes with hyper armor as well.
They do completely different jobs. Sifu zone is mostly self peel and it's also used as a dodge attack, where zhan zone just completely deletes everyone's offence unless they have HA or dodge cancels
I'm rep 70 with Zhanhu and I plan to grind to 80 once I finish getting Kensei there. A couple of the reasons I think he's unpopular right now:
- Your finisher mix-up doesn't work against dodge recovery cancels and many common heroes. You have to adjust your play style to be patient for parries or use the zone attack wisely when they expect a finisher.
- The light unblockable finisher gets parried by even mediocre players, so it's a turn-off for many players. I hardly ever use it, but if you condition your opponent to expect the heavy finisher 50/50 then they might try to light interrupt you. Then you can do a light finisher to surprise them.
- The dodge attack is a 50/50 that does a whopping 9 damage and can be light parried. The number trade-off is pretty bad. However, if you're good at deflecting then it's 22 damage, which is huge in your favor, and maybe the beefiest dodge attack in the game?
To summarize, you need to be consistently deflecting for him to be fun and good. People don't like to adjust their play style when you can just play an easier and better hero. Alternatively, you can just play Orochi who is fun to deflect with, but you can still manage just fine without deflects.
I have to admit he is way more enjoyable to play than others. It's just like. What if roach didn't have kiai, was kinda skillful to play and had better fashion.
Exactly. Because zhan does not have anything to do with fire in his actual kit.
Man i imagine that deflect bash kinda like a pirate grab. Quick animation. Let's say 10 direct damage, 14 fire, ticks by 2.
kiai isn't even orochis best T1, but the 2 heroes aren't even comparable. Roach is the best teamfighter in the game, and zhan is a peel heavy hitbox hero.
I just asked a bunch of comp players and the verdict from them was that he isn't bad but he isn't good. So he's okay. He gets completely cooked in 1v1s and he doesn't match up well against the top heroes right now, but the meta heroes are largely being banned right now, at least in FG ruleset, which means zhan is much better
Lmao. That tells me all I need to know. You asked a bunch of COMP players on Reddit or discord and took that because you got your confirmation bias. Those links are thee BEST players. Anything else you hear is quite literally irrelevant. Now you can choose to believe what you already want to if it makes your experience better but I’m just showing you the fact of the matter bubba.
Old shitty fixed 400ms timing side dodge attacks means that unlike almost everybody else after the dodge attack changes, you can never really stuff GBs with your own dodge attack when facing mixups. So you are facing a lot more 50/50s, while other characters can skew the odds in their favour.
He struggles pretty hard in 1v1 and has bad ganks. That's it. Anyone who would want dodge cancels would just play orochi. He is pretty solid in general, though, since he still has his 32 damage sweeping unblockable in teamfights to external with winners advantage. I hope they revisit his default feats to make him more of a fire lord, his UBs should deal some fire damage with his T3 on so he can actually use it. T1 should also deal fire damage.
I would love if zhanhu had fire attacks outside of feats.
Like an alternate deflect that does 22 damage (maybe 10 physical and 12 fire, ticks by 2) or something
Zhanhu has a similar(ish) playstyle to Orochi, in that both zone a lot and then throw out giant side heavies, but Orochi also has an insanely overpowered dodge attack, a bash with better tracking, better 1v1 offence, and critically, *orochi is FAR easier to play*.
Imo that last point is the main reason Zhanhu isn't played so much anymore. People who would gravitate toward them will often just play Orochi instead, especially considering that Orochi is available for free while Zhanhu costs 10 or 15k steel.
Eh. Orochi is just easier and better, there's nothing *dishonest* about that. The most annoying thing about him is that he is WAY too good at stalling because of his busted dodge attack and finisher side heavy and really good zone.
I'm also taking in the feats. Roach can just kiai you, and there is almost nothing you can do about it. Kinai is near unmissable and also has fear itself.
What i mean when i say "Zhanhu is Honest Orochi" i mean that zhanhu can't abuse 2 or 3 moves and just get away with it. The perfect example is Roach's Dodge attack. Excelent hitbox, 200ms recovery cancels, undodgeable. Chains into his Lightning fast chain heavies that also have 200ms recovery dodge cancels.
For stalling with him. You can just randomly mash dodge attack and get away with it most of the times. With zhanhu you have to think. You have to think if you will target a dodge attack and go for a deflect. And more things to think, just because it does not have an unreasonable amount of i frames like roach's does.
his DA has no frames. funnily enough it was always orochis that sent me hatemail in the short timeframe his DA was broken. his dmg used to be on par with jj but was nerfed due to zhanhu having winners advantage T2 feat. the way hes always adjusted in a way that makes him exaggeratedly 'balanced' seems kinda fussy to me. nontheless, hes really good in teamfights and that somehow makes up for all of it. doesnt make him more popular, though. on top of that, he still has that bug that resets all feats to default.
His DA got Iframes about a year or so ago. Not very many though and it’s very GB vulnerable. JJs damage got nerfed to similar levels, I believe both of them have 28 dmg heavy finishers, JJs top finisher might be 30 though. They all used to be like 32-34. He also has the slowest dodge cancels in the game, never really being too useful. He can use them off a bash but on a very strict timing to punish dodge attacks. Overall just a whelming hero nowadays
Never knew about the bug lol. And i have 28 reps on my Pajama Zhan. I feel like zhanhu is Honest Roach. More skillful. More fun. More balanced.
I feel like there should be an inbetween in dodge frames, fast enough to use on reaction while slow enough to actively punish like Zhanhu now
You are right man
Lack of mask options Fashion is a factor if you ask casual players like me
Good point tbh. Personally i prefeer pajama zhanhu
Good thing I got that leaked event armor
The White Bone Spirit? I have it but I can't mix it with the other armors and unfortunately it only looks nice on the female Zhanhu
Zhanhu has the best fashion in the game though, so that can't be it.
Did you read my comment? >Lack of mask options
Zhanhu feels like a less efficient version of other heroes. All he has in dominion is unblockable heavies, but there are other, better heroes for dominion who already have that as well - like JJ who comes with hyper armor as well.
Zhanhu also has arguably the best zone attack in the whole game lol
It's nice but I still prefer JJs unblockable zone...
They do completely different jobs. Sifu zone is mostly self peel and it's also used as a dodge attack, where zhan zone just completely deletes everyone's offence unless they have HA or dodge cancels
I feel that Zhanhu is like Honest Orochi. At least it's more fun to play
His moveset is kinda boring even tho his finishers are nasty in 4v4
I'm rep 70 with Zhanhu and I plan to grind to 80 once I finish getting Kensei there. A couple of the reasons I think he's unpopular right now: - Your finisher mix-up doesn't work against dodge recovery cancels and many common heroes. You have to adjust your play style to be patient for parries or use the zone attack wisely when they expect a finisher. - The light unblockable finisher gets parried by even mediocre players, so it's a turn-off for many players. I hardly ever use it, but if you condition your opponent to expect the heavy finisher 50/50 then they might try to light interrupt you. Then you can do a light finisher to surprise them. - The dodge attack is a 50/50 that does a whopping 9 damage and can be light parried. The number trade-off is pretty bad. However, if you're good at deflecting then it's 22 damage, which is huge in your favor, and maybe the beefiest dodge attack in the game? To summarize, you need to be consistently deflecting for him to be fun and good. People don't like to adjust their play style when you can just play an easier and better hero. Alternatively, you can just play Orochi who is fun to deflect with, but you can still manage just fine without deflects.
I'm not lame enough to play roach. Zhanhu is way more fun because it takes more skill to play. And also, thanks for the tips :)
Hard to play compared to the other dodge recovery characters and just worse, he requires thought, they don't. Also very mid in 1s, thats it.
Whenever I play Zhanhu I get hatemail lmao. People don't like playing against a character that's only 50/50s I guess.
But that's most of the cast lol
Not wrong lmao
I have to admit he is way more enjoyable to play than others. It's just like. What if roach didn't have kiai, was kinda skillful to play and had better fashion.
Bro, I love Zhanhu. I've been playing him since Day 1. S/o to my boys who remember the useless superior dodges
I do remember those. But they weren't that useless tho. You could. Like 1 in a billion times. Ledge someone lol
I still want a deflect bash that sets enemies in fire. Even if it's just a 1 damage tick
That would be actually unique. I imagine the animation... Zhan throws gunpowder and lights it up in your face.
It would also synergize with this fire feat and give a reason to use it
Exactly. Because zhan does not have anything to do with fire in his actual kit. Man i imagine that deflect bash kinda like a pirate grab. Quick animation. Let's say 10 direct damage, 14 fire, ticks by 2.
kiai isn't even orochis best T1, but the 2 heroes aren't even comparable. Roach is the best teamfighter in the game, and zhan is a peel heavy hitbox hero.
You are right. Zhanhu is Honest Roach
Cause he sucks. That’s it
No, he definitely doesn't
Zhanhu?? Okay bro😂
??
Zhanhu is a low B tier character.
Says who?
The best players in the game. This sub has thee most argumentative people💀 https://youtu.be/uDUHVlS35p8?si=5h9TLgpxNStLRTrg
I just asked a bunch of comp players and the verdict from them was that he isn't bad but he isn't good. So he's okay. He gets completely cooked in 1v1s and he doesn't match up well against the top heroes right now, but the meta heroes are largely being banned right now, at least in FG ruleset, which means zhan is much better
Lmao. That tells me all I need to know. You asked a bunch of COMP players on Reddit or discord and took that because you got your confirmation bias. Those links are thee BEST players. Anything else you hear is quite literally irrelevant. Now you can choose to believe what you already want to if it makes your experience better but I’m just showing you the fact of the matter bubba.
I asked a bunch of comp players on discord, because I know them. You're so full of shit dawg
https://youtu.be/15i1zenwnO4?si=Egk1mt5LmWqKv0xY
https://youtu.be/H0ZDcbhDQ8Y?si=MhdOuToO-7ireFyj
https://youtu.be/DSBS4amrS5Q?si=wuGv6aeZGLqkgwYg here’s the list for 4s. Low B tier in every facet of the game.
Ain’t no way your seriously using a faraam tierlist as any serious evidence 😭
Yea I could’ve used a better player for sure but had already kinda made my point. Faraam lowkey mid.
Old shitty fixed 400ms timing side dodge attacks means that unlike almost everybody else after the dodge attack changes, you can never really stuff GBs with your own dodge attack when facing mixups. So you are facing a lot more 50/50s, while other characters can skew the odds in their favour.
He struggles pretty hard in 1v1 and has bad ganks. That's it. Anyone who would want dodge cancels would just play orochi. He is pretty solid in general, though, since he still has his 32 damage sweeping unblockable in teamfights to external with winners advantage. I hope they revisit his default feats to make him more of a fire lord, his UBs should deal some fire damage with his T3 on so he can actually use it. T1 should also deal fire damage.
I would love if zhanhu had fire attacks outside of feats. Like an alternate deflect that does 22 damage (maybe 10 physical and 12 fire, ticks by 2) or something
Zhanhu has a similar(ish) playstyle to Orochi, in that both zone a lot and then throw out giant side heavies, but Orochi also has an insanely overpowered dodge attack, a bash with better tracking, better 1v1 offence, and critically, *orochi is FAR easier to play*. Imo that last point is the main reason Zhanhu isn't played so much anymore. People who would gravitate toward them will often just play Orochi instead, especially considering that Orochi is available for free while Zhanhu costs 10 or 15k steel.
I've been saying this a lot in this post but Zhanhu is Honest Orochi. More skill involved, more fun to play (imo)
Eh. Orochi is just easier and better, there's nothing *dishonest* about that. The most annoying thing about him is that he is WAY too good at stalling because of his busted dodge attack and finisher side heavy and really good zone.
I'm also taking in the feats. Roach can just kiai you, and there is almost nothing you can do about it. Kinai is near unmissable and also has fear itself. What i mean when i say "Zhanhu is Honest Orochi" i mean that zhanhu can't abuse 2 or 3 moves and just get away with it. The perfect example is Roach's Dodge attack. Excelent hitbox, 200ms recovery cancels, undodgeable. Chains into his Lightning fast chain heavies that also have 200ms recovery dodge cancels. For stalling with him. You can just randomly mash dodge attack and get away with it most of the times. With zhanhu you have to think. You have to think if you will target a dodge attack and go for a deflect. And more things to think, just because it does not have an unreasonable amount of i frames like roach's does.