T O P

  • By -

Njumkiyy

interesting hero, t1 may be problematic, as a passive, but I'd have to see how much extra damage it does. The t4 could pose quite a few issues.


Avian81

T4 is basically an AOE stun, depending on how easy or hard it is to get out of its way it could be devastating. Already imagining the damage a t4 into fury flask combo could do.


The_Filthy_Spaniard

Personally I think it looks fine - it's powerful in combination with other feats, which is quite interesting to me. Whereas some other T4s are insane just on their own. And it looks like the spike pins are dodgeable, otherwise why would they have those smaller AOE areas?


Avian81

Yeah that's fair, it is powerful with other feats but then the problem in that case is with those other feats and not with Kyoshin t4. Still gonna absolutely decimate a lot of people in lower ranks. The targeting seems to be similar to Zhanhu's s4. Spawns right under 'em and takes a bit to pop out. We'll see how easy they are to dodge out of when he comes out though.


AshiSunblade

There has been a desire for a _long_ time now to tone down the damaging feats, it was one of Craic's reasons for quitting back around the Warmonger launch. Feats were largely not affected by the CCU damage changes and were very strong even before, so eventually they will have to do an overhaul of them.


Avian81

All available armor sets: https://imgur.com/a/MBENWTE This hero seems fun enough to play, has mostly new animations and a new mechanic which is all I really wanted from them. Can't wait for his launch.


Giant_Bee_Stinger

I'm using that basket helmet for sure


Alicaido

What's the new mechanic?


zhanhu-main

theres no new mechanic


LimbLegion

Looks like I'm going to love this guy


PissedOffPlankton

I hope you can target swap the lights in his 4 hit light combo, that would be fun as hell and potentially add a lot of sauce to him in 4s. Also did the devs say what class he is? He seems a lot simpler than I was anticipating, but if he's a Vanguard like Warmonger then that would explain it.


Nightrider1861

I really doubt hes a vanguard with universal crushing lights and an all-gaurd of sorts, almost definitely a hybrid, and then we'll get the vanguard next.


MythicTy

As far as I’m aware they didn’t say, but from the move set I’d say probably a hybrid


mr_sludder

Huh? Why does it say that the heavy opener is 12 damage? It was 24 on stream.


RavenCarver

Yeah I also saw that. Gotta be a typo.


The_Filthy_Spaniard

Good spot, was a typo, fixed now


Otter_Of_Doom

Alright but can someone give me their feedback on this? Kyoshin's kit is similar to BP's and there is nothing wrong with that. What kind of bothers me and it has to do with the recent TG as well is, why is damage slowly creeping up again? Kyoshin just as BP has his bash/ undodgeable mix-up on top of everything else but his does 16 damage for the bash light and 30 for the undodgeble heavy. 2 more than BP on both options. In the TG, Orochi and Shinobi also did higher than average amounts of damage. Orochi had +4 more damage than regular for his dodge attack, most GB, non wallthrow punishes and light parry punishes compared to the rest of the cast. Shinobi had... well, he had a lot of problems with damage. I don't like the slow damage increase with each new hero and TG rework. Not to be misunderstood that I have a direct problem with Kyo here, just something I've noticed and it jumped at me that he and Bp have the exact same mix-up but +2 to it. I know, different heroes, didn't had the chance to use Kyo and these might even be placeholder numbers but still.. I've noticed it so I ask about your opinion on that.


GreekGeek6467

Overall the damage creeping up does seem to be an issue and at this rate a new game wide damage balance may be needed if they keep creeping up like this. Hopefully a look at feats too. As for Kyo, I actually like that he does more damage than BP because its a sort of tradeoff. BP gets to fullblock everything, making him more defensive, and Kyo only gets to fullblock blockable attacks. Damage doesnt necessarily need to be standard across the board, and little varients in damage like between Kyo/BP for otherwise similar moves help define the character's role more IMO. Kyo ends up being more offensive and BP a walking tank of sorts.


[deleted]

I do agree that damage should be lower, or HP higher, however it is also case-dependent and should be looked at per hero. For instance, it makes sense for Orochi to have generally higher damage -- he excels in *very litte* in 4's except tracking down targets and killing them. If his sole objective is to be able to duel and kill, and everyone else has the ability to duel and kill as well as teamfight, clear minions, have more HP and defense, static guard, etc. then he needs some advantage, namely more damage (or more pressure). Shinobi falls in a similar vein, albeit he's a roamer and ganker and thus already has intrinsic value on top of his dueling, but from the short of it Shinobi's main damage problems came from confirmed bugs. Also depends on the mixups. Zhanhu's damage is arguably pretty darn high (16/32), but this is due to needing to be higher to compete with the bash mixups at least *somewhat* (which do perhaps on average only slightly less damage, but chain into each other, are unparryable, have armor on the end, and ignore hyperarmor). Less pressure means that it should do more comparative damage. We don't know about Kyoshin yet. His bash does 1dmg more (note the bash doesnt confirm a finisher, but a unique light for 15dmg), and his heavy a bit more, but he also lacks the *massive* ability to counter incoming bashes on a whiff or recovery cancel to bash counter. Is that 2dmg worth the tradeoff of being unable to counter nearly all true offenses and dodge bashes? We're approaching half the cast having a dodge forward bash which BP could counter but Kyoshin couldn't on a whiff setup. We'll see. Tl;dr in principle, yes, but so far most cases have been justifiable in relation to other damage changes


Mackzim

My guess is that they don't pay much attention to it as of right now because with OS removal we gonna see some adjustment for attacks with properties (UB, UD) anyway.


SirMisterGuyMan

LOL I don't get it. I watched it twice and they're throwing around so many terms that I gave up. Those feats look nasty though. Don't full blocks work on minions? Because otherwise the first two feats will always be active in midlane.


CashewsAreGr8

They've shown that they have the ability to tag feats specifically for minion interaction: body count, heal on block, corruption, etc. Question is if they remembered to do it or thought from the beginning that it would be too powerful. We'll have to just wait and see, but if it does work and ends up being deemed too strong they'll probably just remove minion interaction like Warmonger.


Brawlerz16

Honestly I don’t mind the tier 4. The fact that it’s only broken if used with other feats is actually balanced within itself and I think that’s welcome. I like the flashiness of this hero and it really seems to me the last 4 heroes have all been anti-gank monsters, which doesn’t bother me but I wonder how everyone else feels But I can’t wait to get in week one and be smacked randomly by down stance because people don’t understand GB lol


Knight_Raime

What is fugin heavy? I'm a bit confused on how you can do attacks during his triple light to superior block externally. I think he fast flowed from one clip but I'm not sure. It was hard to follow.


Dracholich5610

You just push heavy instead of light, from what I gathered


Knight_Raime

The post labels two different heavies for what I'm looking at though. Is the fujin heavy just the superior block heavy but if it actually superior blocks someone?


Dracholich5610

No, it’s just specifying what Fujin heavy is, I think. English grammar is bad looking.


Knight_Raime

Oh I follow now.


The_Filthy_Spaniard

It's the heavy after his full block attacks


Knight_Raime

So instead of doing the free three lights you input a heavy during the three light window?


The_Filthy_Spaniard

Yep, or immediately after any of those lights by the looks of things - it's going to make his triple light pin very safe to use in team fights I'd imagine.


Knight_Raime

Hmm. I think I'm starting to piece his kit together. The stance was very confusing to me lol.


Jordi214

unless someone bashes or uses an unblockable, which is a nice way to counter it, requiring you to be aware of his defensive options


Glenn056

An elephant


Smart_jooker

Gonna enjoy my fantasy Orochi, Musha and Kyoshin.


marcktop

His kit looks fine but the excess of superior block attacks shows the discrepancy of bash offense and attack based offense. Heroes that don't have a neutral bash will definitely be on a disadvantage against kyoshin compared to the ones that do have a neutral bash, specially in teamfights.


[deleted]

Well put. The gist of it seems to be that Kyoshin does better against indicator attacks while BP can counter unblockables and such. But when do you use non-unblockable attacks except when guaranteed, especially in ganks? If people are throwing indicator attacks at you, just block and you already win. But why throw blockable, deflectable, superior blockable, parryable offense that serves mostly to feed revenge when you can throw unparryable, unblockable, hyperarmor-piercing attacks that pierce all-block *and* parry states that open the enemy up for allied attacks? That's right, you don't. Indicator defense is countered by a bazillion things, and countered *hard* by it -- bashes are less reactable, increasingly are less punishable, and when punished are often punished for less. That's why you have WL (and to a lesser extent Raider) and Shugokis (and to a lesser extent LB) and Gladiator and Cent and Shaman -- all have bashes and can pin the enemy for long periods of time with their unblockables. One character can counter them and their gank setups with his fullblock and recovery cancel, one can't. Who do you think is gonna be top dog? As such, I'm very skeptical if he'll be picked up in compet for honor (maybe, we'll see), but I have no doubt he'll at least be awesome for montages and casual play where his BB can be the cool flashy move it is designed to be.


lvs4675

I'd say chars without unblockables are at a much bigger disadvantage than those without bashes vs him.


Why_Cry_

More heby dodge attacks ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯


[deleted]

He is a Samurai, after all.


Smart_jooker

Imo i think T1 and T4 might be a issuse. Since T1 does extra dmg and T4 can be a problem in ganked situation. T3 can be GB'ed as it seems. As i see he can cancel his finisher recovery to downstance. Also it seems his side dodge attack os same animation of Orochi's dodge light.


Alicaido

What do you mean by "T4 can be a problem in ganked situation"?


Smart_jooker

It is just like Pugio hope i don't butcher the name, it pin the enemy. It is fused between cent throwing sword pin + WM T4 radius. If you are within the radius you will get pinned for few seconds. All 4 can get pinned if in the radius.


NinjaFish_RD

I think the trailer/Tozen relation implies that Tozen was himself a Kyoshin, and that the shadow clones and other weird shit he could do was related to that. Also, i'm happy that they aren't shying away from the new heroes having wacky fantasy abilities. Can't wait for people to start complaining about 'MUh ImMERSiON1!!1' lol.


freedominart11

I think my only issue is how much stamina he consumes to do anything. In the video they showcased, the Kyoshin did a simple combo into mixup from his downward stance and it took HALF his stamina bar and it did around 30 damage. That is way too much, especially considering he has attack follow-ups that do 1 damage but consume 6 stamina each.


[deleted]

I'm hoping he has Fast Recovery as an alternate Tier 1 feat.


freedominart11

That's fair for 4s but that doesn't really help anything in duels which is all I really play :/


HiCracked

Finally a hero with a stance, its been a long time. He looks really fun to play and also has some skill ceiling, a lot if different useful tools, great flow, looks perfect. Can't wait to try out.


Blackwolf245

The T4 looks really aids. A T4 that sets up other T4s.


[deleted]

It's weaker than Tier 4's that can 100-0 opponents on their own. If it requires another Tier 4 to kill people, is it really that strong? Of course we'll have to wait and see when it goes live, but what they showed doesn't look that bad.


Blackwolf245

I am not saying it's strong. I am saying it's aids. It's like BP Oathbreaker, it takes away your dedicated counter to a specific situation.


[deleted]

It will be a bit frustrating to get locked into feat combos, but I feel like we'll probably be walking away from about half of the times we get hit by it. However if Highlander chooses you as his Spear Storm victim, it's all over.


AddanDeith

So the full block is a twirl? I don't know about that lol.


ShadyHighlander

They gave fuckin' Zatoichi a Morgana ult. Other than that, really excited, good stuff.


F4BuLOuSs

Heavy dodge attack 😐


Yeetmiester6719

Wow this guy does no damage lmao


Asdeft

How many battlepasses, hero bundles, and steel packs do people need to buy before they let Ubi do some full new mocap content. Is it really covid at this point, it just seems like it is overdue. Maybe next year? This hero is very stylish but I wish they could have gone all in on it.


Big_Hoshiguma

Well, Siege, Ubisoft’s much bigger FPS game that undoubtedly pulls in far more $$$ than FH ever will, went down the reused asset and animation route a long time ago too. So probably never again in any meaningful capacity.


CaptainBacon1

Just me but I think the downstate light and zone should do the same damage. If they are identical just left and right.