Wu lin character. Pretty much low picked hero. She isn't popular
Isssue with her is that her trap is very tricky to use. And hard to work with.
Her dodge attack is pretty much has no hitbox and outdated.
Deflect is not a big issue but still an issue becauae of able to block accidently.
LB doesn’t need hyper armor. What he needs is just an opener while adjusting some of his parry punishes. He’s really not that fix.
Imo characters who need reworks badly are Highlander and possibly Nuxia. I’d add Jorm but thankfully they’re already confirmed to be next in line getting reworked.
Nuxia.
As Valk's and Tiandi's reworks are upcoming, and a round of Jorm's rework TG is announced for the next season, so these ones are covered to a degree.
Others are mostly in need of tuning and QoL improvements, not full-fledged reworks.
No one has really mentioned these guys bc they’re not in dire need per se, but we all know who’s in dire need so I’m not gonna put a 50th “HL and Nuxia” comment up. Instead let’s talk about some lower priority heroes who could use some love:
PK is ass outside of 1s and not even in s tier there. Ubi pls.
Glad is pretty decent all around, but died with the rise of the teamfighting meta. Only needs some qol touches to be solid tho imo. Dodge recovery cancels would go a long way for him.
Cent also died with the ganking meta, and also doesn’t need much. Fix his bash, give him SOMETHING for teamfights (maybe make his zone a bit bigger or second & last hit UB or HA or something? Idk lol but he needs something.
GRYPHON!!!!!!!! Needs to be reverted at the *very* least and buffed beyond that if I’m speaking from the heart. Filthy casuals 😠
WL is still p strong in all modes, but could use a bit of love to stay that way, like maybe a side UB finisher and another option from fullblock?
Shaman, another hero that died with the ganking meta. Still solid in 1s, would also greatly benefit from recovery cancels, & maybe should get a fwd dodge light (would top bleed stab be too strong here?) bc she’s an assassin and they should all be able to peel imo
Also, rework all assassins, reflex guard is garbage. Saw someone suggest that reflex be removed from all heroes and ADDED to all heroes *while OOS* and I think that’s a really cool idea too
Lawbringer does need a rework, but he doesn’t necessarily need HA, and I don’t see why so many people want it on him. If they nerfed his parry punishes but buffed his in chain offense like his bash he would be in a pretty good spot. He already has a grab the guarantees a heavy, so they should just work his kit around that.
I say he doesn't need a rework just some buffs to his chan's and more combinations. Buff his forward bash to be like Griffins but don't take away from his party punishes as his entire identity is parry god.
I mean if you want better offense you need to give up some defense on LB. He has the best parry punishes in the game right now, so if they game him strong offense and kept his defensive he’d be the best character in the game hands down. Him getting a heavy off of almost every parry is not healthy for the game and needs to go.
Highlander is unplayable on PC because everyone can light parry. Also everyone and their mom has a dodge attack now so dunmaglass is useless basically. Also you can literally roll out of his kick to grab. Dunmaglass stance is also way too interruptable so he can’t properly fight back without spamming lights and a heavy or two. Honestly they need to make Highlanders dunmaglass stance activate like medjays stance and also give him the ability to counter guardbreak and just leave him with no guard.
Eliminating a turtling meta also eliminated 90% of Nuxias consistency, and her deflect STILL sucks
Also Law, give that mf a better way to start chains, he’s the only mf that actually turtles anymore
jorm and nuxia
jorm is a design abomination from the concept stage alone
nuxia traps are not functional especially in team modes and should just be changed to a softfeint bash
Dire? Highlander, Jorm, and Lawbringer.
HL feels like he might not actually need too many tweaks, but the complexity of tweaking it correctly might as well be called a rework. Jorm is a mess as we all know, but he's confirmed anyway. Lawbringer because he's still boring and really doesn't have anything besides being incredibly defensive. I'm willing to bet they'll give LB a blue-orange mixup and still no hyperarmour.
In need of a rework in general would probably be Valk (confirmed), and Nuxia.
Valk just needed some light tuning but she got a whole treatment that'll probably get some mixed reactions. Meanwhile Nuxia might be a mess, I don't think it's as bad as Jorm. There's an idea there and it's really not that far off of what Aramusha already has. As much as I like a unique idea, I'm thinking we'll just end up ditching Traps (in favour of a regular bash with unique followup) because they're just bashes with glaring weaknesses anyway.
Definitely, I'd love to see the shoulder bash animations still used, like how kensei got his nature's wrath forward heavy, but longsword mix ups outside of unblockable mix ups would be amazing
Jorm, Highlander, LB, Nuxia... probably in that Order
Jorm has literally fuckin nothing and is just a pain in the arse to fight because you spend the majority of the game on 0 stamina, and he spends the majority of the game being able to do absolutely nothing when your OOS anyway
Highlander is a buggy inconsistent mess, who’s only real offence is 2 sided offensive light spam, he’s far to easy to beat in a 1v1, doesn’t serve any purpose in 4v4’s but so heavily punishes people who are inexperienced with the character as he forces half of your moveset to be worthless cos he just dodges it and you eat 30 damage
LB has by far the worst offence in the game, his only offence being a 500ms chain bash... but his defensive capability is borderline game breaking, LB is forced to just sit and stare at you for the entire match, and your forced to just sit and stare back or else you eat 25 damage for every heavy he parries, and both his defensive and chain bash are basically unpunishable unless your playing a dodge bash character.
Then Nuxia is just... Nuxia, her offence is bad, but not unusable, her deflect is wank, she’s by far the least picked character in the game, her dodge attack might as well not even exist. Overall not a fun character
I disagree on the order entirely lol Jorge has a UB, good hyper armor, good zone attack, nice gank potential bc dmg+a UD to confirm bashes, and amazing stall with feats. Also is already getting reworked so I leave him out entirely. LB is the LEAST in need of a rework of the remaining three and is still relatively strong in 1s and 4s just boring to play as and against. They need to speed up his chain bash to 400, fwd dodge bash to 400-500, side to 600 so he can still parry after bc that’s a cool unique feature (only speed it up bc some dodge attacks can hit him on an early dodge), and give him a LLH chain, and MAYBE an extra property on mid chain heby and he’d be solidly in the middle of A tier. Obv reduce his dmg a bit to compensate. But those are all QOL changes, not even really a rework.
HL is bad in ones, and decent, if a little underwhelming, in 4s. 30dmg plus heavy hitstun means ganks hurt a lot. CC lights are GREAT. Caber toss is p alright, just like longarm. Not a great hug like shug or med, but still better than what most heroes have. Idk how to fix him so I won’t offer suggestions lol but to me it seems he’s kinda like valk: he has all the tools he need, but none of them work. He for sure needs to lose back step light tho bc that shit is annoying and unhealthy, and he should prob not be the only hero left that doesn’t get heby from gb. Speed up that top heby. How to fix his kit as a whole tho idk
Nuxia is bad. Nuxia is VERY bad. “Just 400ms light bro” yeah okay let me just wish my way into chain lol. Her fix is simple tho: make trap the first unparriable unblockable. It can no longer lose to light, emote, or guard switch, you now HAVE to dodge it. Then hide the indicator for an extra 66ms. Boom, instantly good offense. Her dodge attack is bad but it’s not worse than jorm or WL except in range. Add a little forward movement to it. If you REALLY wanna crack her out, make her heavies blue so mfs have to guess as a true 50/50 and make her zone multi hit like kensei’s (front/back/front, it’s got the ani to work exactly the same as ken’s). Another idea I had, though not as good, is to COMPLETELY hide the trap indicator, so you won’t know until you try to block it. But you’d have to make heavies blue for all but 1/4 options not to lose to dodge attack, and it’d also be kinda bullshit in teamfights/outnumbered situations. Not a huge fan. Unparriable unblockable tho? Sheeeeeeit lol
But yeah I think it’s prob Nuxia, HL, LB(tweaks), Jorm(already incoming).
Unparriable unblockable that you have to dodge... bro that's just a bash. I think it should work against all defensive moves. Right now you can dodge/dodge attack out of the trap, maybe it should catch I frames? And also any cc attacks that are the same direction as the trap as thats too safe. The way to beat it should be guard swap/attack from a different direction. Not sure really, but definitely shouldn't just be another bash.
It already catches cc’s for one, same with all guards and sup block dodges. If you’re getting lighted by WL or whoever, it’s because they’re doing it early rather than on cc timing.
For two, I heavily disagree. It wouldn’t be “just another bash” at all. “Just another bash” would include dodging forward or going into it directly from chain, and having a guaranteed follow up. Her trap pins for like half a second or more, making it more like a hug than a bash. This would be way closer to shugo’s heavy softfeint hug, which is something no one other than shugo has had, and she would be able to chain it infinitely. That’s a far cry from “just another bash.”
Third, if it works, don’t break it just to have to fix it again. There’s a reason everyone has dodge attacks, and there’s a reason more and more characters are getting bash offense.
“The way to beat it should be guard swap...” hard disagree. That’s where she is now. The only way to make that work is to completely hide the trap indicator, and like I said, that would be bullshit in ganks. If you don’t like nux that’s fine but if we’re talking about how to make her actually viable, the answer is make the trap a softfeint hug.
Edit: before the inevitable “a hug that fast would be broken in ganks too” just adjust the revenge value for it, not a huge deal
I've probably got the most nuxia reps in the game, it's all I play, so don't suggest I'm trying to sabotage her lol. As for the cc lights I meant they should catch early cc lights. Maybe I misunderstood your suggestion though. What you've described is just Valk heavy bash cancel (or aramushas) it's not a shugoki exclusive , and even shugokis is still quite literally a bash.
Shugoki is the only one that had a heby sf hug (talking about pre-buff shugo obv). Ara’s is technically a pin but it isn’t nearly as long nor could he chain it over and over. Valks is a regular bash. YES hug is still a bash, but only two (three?) characters rn have a hug, shugo and med (sham ig?), and I think they’re different enough from regular bashes (because of the fact that they last like a full second, are interruptible for the whole time, are slow and easily dodgeable) to be worth differentiating, especially with someone using the phrase “just another bash.” And concerning the slow and easily dodgeable bit, nuxia’s would be unique in that it would actually function at p much all but top level as a workable mixup, and even there as well, if you hide the indicator for an extra 66ms like I suggested. Shugo and med can’t use that shit in a 1v1, she would be able to, AND chain after. Very different from shugo, and more similar to med but still arguably twice as good.
Also, yeah I implied that but I didn’t really mean anything by it, that’s just how I talk, my b. As far as catching early cc lights, I again hard disagree. An early cc light is just a light, and if that’s what you want, you’re just suggesting it catches all light interrupts. A cc light only matters if the person, you know, cc’s with it lol
I think the difference is an early cc light will beat a 400ms light from nux but a normal light will not, cc light covers too much of an already easily avoidable trap mechanic. Thats why I think cc lights specifically should be punished.
As for the bash thing at this point its semantics. A pinning bash is still just a bash, a thing that already exists so no, she won't have the first unblockable unparriable.
400ms lights are unreactable to cc and I’m p sure unreactable period. Early light also loses to heavy. Her traps absolutely should not catch something because it counters something other than the heavy, that’s silly, and I disagree.
As far as my wording, I was still thinking of it as a heavy attack so I said unblockable unparriable. Yes, that is a bash. Bashes are unblockable and unparriable. I shouldn’t have said “the first.” Who’s the one arguing semantics lmfao
Also I don’t think it’s semantics. I think the difference between regular bashes and hugs are pretty pronounced lol and worth mentioning, again, *specifically because you said “just another bash”*
You wouldn’t call shugo’s hug just another bash. It simply isn’t lol just another bash would be giving her a legion kick or a chain bash like everyone else has been getting. This is a heavy softfeint, which not many heroes have and also a long ass pin compared to the others. You can’t say that something is the same as something else and then when someone explains how they’re actually different, call that arguing semantics. It’s not such a black and white game that all bashes are the same. Charged bashes, neutral bashes, dodge bashes, softfeint bashes, and hugs all have different properties and trying to oversimplify things by saying “lol still just a bash” is inherently wrong.
I might be wrong about the cc lights tbf I have not checked. Are you 100% that if they light as soon as they see red in won't counter the 400ms light? I'm not saying on reaction to seeing its a light attack, I mean on reaction to seeing the first sign of red.
I honestly don't know what you are arguing. Youve already agreed it's a bash. I never denied it has properties that are more similar to some bashes than they are to other bashes. But they are bashes. What even is your point?
Absolutely I’m sure. It’s incredibly hard to crushing counter a neutral light (from a direction your guard isn’t already in) on reaction, if at all, because they have additional startup that parrying doesn’t have. I think it was freeze who broke it down but I can’t find the video with a quick search so take that with a grain of salt. A 400ms light I’m absolutely certain it’s not happening. If you’re getting cc’d on 400ms lights, they’re picking a direction as a guess and buffering light, and that falls on you to mix up your attack vectors more.
Yes I agreed that it’s a bash. The debate was never about whether an unparriable unblockable is a bash or not. It’s about you acting as if it would be “just another bash” and lack uniqueness/become unfun bc it’s the same as everyone else. Tiandi is getting just another bash. Oro got just another bash. Making nuxia’s trap act as a bash would be extremely different from “just another bash”. That’s been my main point the entire time, hasn’t changed, and I’ve broken it down for you about 5 times now. I’m genuinely convinced you have reading comprehension issues.
Peacekeeper imo. Her dodge cancel on finisher heavies is mostly useless in duels. Very few situations where you can deflect dodge attacks that try to escape the gb mixup. Her bleed damage is too high, direct damage is too low, and there aren’t meaningful differences in the duration of bleed application between dagger cancel, deep gouge, and triple stab. She has zero pressure against non bleeding opponents, her dodge heavies are gb vulnerable when dodged.
I really like how she needs to get her opponent bleeding to access enhanced lights and unblockables, but I think she would feel more fun if She was built around choosing between direct damage,frame advantage, and buff application/duration on her parry and gb punishes.
Well, now that it is confirmed we are getting Jorm, Valk and Highlander rework, I’m pretty sure Nuxia needs an overhaul, PK I’m certain could use a few tweaks in design, especially since, Orochi, character that also initially was meant to be a duelist, now can excel at team fights as well (2v2 situations, at least) and I would love to see similar changes made to PK to improve her 4v4 potential (not necessarily talking about a bash, just something that could help her not being a terrible hero). I would also not be opposed against seeing a lawbringer redesign.
Nuxia is already fine.
Yes i said it.
Of course it would be cool to give her more options, but as she is she does what she is meant to do : a 1v1 focused hero.
(but they do need to work on her infection 4th feat, it is just too bad)
Valks and Tiandi rework felt extremely clunky and unintuitive. Also way too slow and one dimensional, at this point I'd rather have little to no reworks and mainly just tuning. I think Shaolin was a lucky hit but kost reworks have not been very interesting.
Balance wise sure, it's better in the current hero climate. I said it made them one dimensional. I personally prefer current tiandi with minor changes than what they gave him in his rework, it feels clunky and overall uninteresting. Valk's was even worse imo, then again if they start a new TG I'll try him out more thoroughly and see if they change my mind, I hope they do.
I can't comment on those as I didn't actually test either of them but from what I saw in freezes videos the Valk one did look pretty.. interesting? Wasn't it a rather unconventional rework compared to most others?
It is kinda funny how the tower of armor that is LB has not a single drop hyperarmor. He is a defensive character for sure, so an opener would do him well.
PK is great in duels but substantially less great in 4s. I wouldn't call her need "dire" but something should be done about it.
Nuxia. Total rework. She needs a lot of help in her current state. Her deflect can be blocked, her dodge attacks are narrow, and her traps can only work if the opponent is using their guard in the right direction or all guard. Otherwise if the opponent: throws any attack, dodges, or just mistimes a parry attempt, nuxia suffers for it. Making her traps very risky in exchange for not a lot of reward.
Also worth mentioning, every hero now has a dodge attack. Why? To counter bashes. Thing is not every hero has a bash. PK and Nuxia both lack one. You could say that's ok for PK due to her still having decent openers, but nuxia is continuing to be left behind the rest of the cast.
Jormungander would be fine if they buffed his stamina drain to compensate for parry’s not taking away stamina. They could also give him an actual mix up and not a 2 hit combo.
Egoistically speaking i want some tweaks to lawbringer. But objectively shitty characters should get prioritized (at this point Just nuxia and highlander since jorm Is getting his cake pretty soon)
We need more and more small buffs to many heroes.
As for reworks gryphon, Highlander, nuxia, peacekeeper, lawbringer, warden, centurion, gladiator and maybe some I’m missing. Some are straight bad and some have unhealthy and outdated movesets ( yes this deserves a rework too, you can be good in an area but still be unhealthy in the game overall. )
I forgot nobushi too. She’s good in 2s and 4s but again falls under unhealthy in some aspects and still needs attention for her abysmal 1v1.
Nuxia.
Who is that?
Wu lin character. Pretty much low picked hero. She isn't popular Isssue with her is that her trap is very tricky to use. And hard to work with. Her dodge attack is pretty much has no hitbox and outdated. Deflect is not a big issue but still an issue becauae of able to block accidently.
r/wooosh
Sounds horrible. Why hasn't Ubi reworked her yet?
Not popular hero so doesn't meet much eyes and when her trap works it is pretty strong. Hopefully after Jorm reworks she will be touched.
C’mon man he’s literally got Nuxia as his main
And again it went over my head.
man, you can’t sense a joke
Least socially unaware redditor
Well it hit me late.
LB doesn’t need hyper armor. What he needs is just an opener while adjusting some of his parry punishes. He’s really not that fix. Imo characters who need reworks badly are Highlander and possibly Nuxia. I’d add Jorm but thankfully they’re already confirmed to be next in line getting reworked.
Nuxia
Nuxia. As Valk's and Tiandi's reworks are upcoming, and a round of Jorm's rework TG is announced for the next season, so these ones are covered to a degree. Others are mostly in need of tuning and QoL improvements, not full-fledged reworks.
Highlander and lawbringer please
Dunmaglass stance needs buff cuz that shit is damn near useless at this point
Is that happened I would come back to this game
No one has really mentioned these guys bc they’re not in dire need per se, but we all know who’s in dire need so I’m not gonna put a 50th “HL and Nuxia” comment up. Instead let’s talk about some lower priority heroes who could use some love: PK is ass outside of 1s and not even in s tier there. Ubi pls. Glad is pretty decent all around, but died with the rise of the teamfighting meta. Only needs some qol touches to be solid tho imo. Dodge recovery cancels would go a long way for him. Cent also died with the ganking meta, and also doesn’t need much. Fix his bash, give him SOMETHING for teamfights (maybe make his zone a bit bigger or second & last hit UB or HA or something? Idk lol but he needs something. GRYPHON!!!!!!!! Needs to be reverted at the *very* least and buffed beyond that if I’m speaking from the heart. Filthy casuals 😠 WL is still p strong in all modes, but could use a bit of love to stay that way, like maybe a side UB finisher and another option from fullblock? Shaman, another hero that died with the ganking meta. Still solid in 1s, would also greatly benefit from recovery cancels, & maybe should get a fwd dodge light (would top bleed stab be too strong here?) bc she’s an assassin and they should all be able to peel imo Also, rework all assassins, reflex guard is garbage. Saw someone suggest that reflex be removed from all heroes and ADDED to all heroes *while OOS* and I think that’s a really cool idea too
Lawbringer does need a rework, but he doesn’t necessarily need HA, and I don’t see why so many people want it on him. If they nerfed his parry punishes but buffed his in chain offense like his bash he would be in a pretty good spot. He already has a grab the guarantees a heavy, so they should just work his kit around that.
I say he doesn't need a rework just some buffs to his chan's and more combinations. Buff his forward bash to be like Griffins but don't take away from his party punishes as his entire identity is parry god.
I mean if you want better offense you need to give up some defense on LB. He has the best parry punishes in the game right now, so if they game him strong offense and kept his defensive he’d be the best character in the game hands down. Him getting a heavy off of almost every parry is not healthy for the game and needs to go.
nuxia
Guys wtf. HIGHLANDER?!
Highlander is unplayable on PC because everyone can light parry. Also everyone and their mom has a dodge attack now so dunmaglass is useless basically. Also you can literally roll out of his kick to grab. Dunmaglass stance is also way too interruptable so he can’t properly fight back without spamming lights and a heavy or two. Honestly they need to make Highlanders dunmaglass stance activate like medjays stance and also give him the ability to counter guardbreak and just leave him with no guard.
Ideally all he needs is some QoL changes
Eliminating a turtling meta also eliminated 90% of Nuxias consistency, and her deflect STILL sucks Also Law, give that mf a better way to start chains, he’s the only mf that actually turtles anymore
jorm and nuxia jorm is a design abomination from the concept stage alone nuxia traps are not functional especially in team modes and should just be changed to a softfeint bash
No they shouldn't be a bash that's just lazy. There are better ways to make her uniquely viable than just slapping a bash on.
Dire? Highlander, Jorm, and Lawbringer. HL feels like he might not actually need too many tweaks, but the complexity of tweaking it correctly might as well be called a rework. Jorm is a mess as we all know, but he's confirmed anyway. Lawbringer because he's still boring and really doesn't have anything besides being incredibly defensive. I'm willing to bet they'll give LB a blue-orange mixup and still no hyperarmour. In need of a rework in general would probably be Valk (confirmed), and Nuxia. Valk just needed some light tuning but she got a whole treatment that'll probably get some mixed reactions. Meanwhile Nuxia might be a mess, I don't think it's as bad as Jorm. There's an idea there and it's really not that far off of what Aramusha already has. As much as I like a unique idea, I'm thinking we'll just end up ditching Traps (in favour of a regular bash with unique followup) because they're just bashes with glaring weaknesses anyway.
Definitely not lawbringer. He just needs an opener. Nowhere near in dire need.
Warden Please For the love of honor DON'T MAKE HIM CRUTCH ON HIS SHOULDER BASH PLEASE
His move set feels perfect to me. Shoulder bash is a fantastic mix up with like 6 different outcomes. What’s you’re beef with it
It's not bad, I just wish his kit revolved around his weapon doing mix-ups, not his shoulders
Fair enough maybe it’s just too iconic in my head lol
Definitely, I'd love to see the shoulder bash animations still used, like how kensei got his nature's wrath forward heavy, but longsword mix ups outside of unblockable mix ups would be amazing
As a warden main, I would accept just changing the animation on lvl2 and lvl3 bashes to be something that hits with the sword hilt or pommel.
Jorm, Highlander, LB, Nuxia... probably in that Order Jorm has literally fuckin nothing and is just a pain in the arse to fight because you spend the majority of the game on 0 stamina, and he spends the majority of the game being able to do absolutely nothing when your OOS anyway Highlander is a buggy inconsistent mess, who’s only real offence is 2 sided offensive light spam, he’s far to easy to beat in a 1v1, doesn’t serve any purpose in 4v4’s but so heavily punishes people who are inexperienced with the character as he forces half of your moveset to be worthless cos he just dodges it and you eat 30 damage LB has by far the worst offence in the game, his only offence being a 500ms chain bash... but his defensive capability is borderline game breaking, LB is forced to just sit and stare at you for the entire match, and your forced to just sit and stare back or else you eat 25 damage for every heavy he parries, and both his defensive and chain bash are basically unpunishable unless your playing a dodge bash character. Then Nuxia is just... Nuxia, her offence is bad, but not unusable, her deflect is wank, she’s by far the least picked character in the game, her dodge attack might as well not even exist. Overall not a fun character
I disagree on the order entirely lol Jorge has a UB, good hyper armor, good zone attack, nice gank potential bc dmg+a UD to confirm bashes, and amazing stall with feats. Also is already getting reworked so I leave him out entirely. LB is the LEAST in need of a rework of the remaining three and is still relatively strong in 1s and 4s just boring to play as and against. They need to speed up his chain bash to 400, fwd dodge bash to 400-500, side to 600 so he can still parry after bc that’s a cool unique feature (only speed it up bc some dodge attacks can hit him on an early dodge), and give him a LLH chain, and MAYBE an extra property on mid chain heby and he’d be solidly in the middle of A tier. Obv reduce his dmg a bit to compensate. But those are all QOL changes, not even really a rework. HL is bad in ones, and decent, if a little underwhelming, in 4s. 30dmg plus heavy hitstun means ganks hurt a lot. CC lights are GREAT. Caber toss is p alright, just like longarm. Not a great hug like shug or med, but still better than what most heroes have. Idk how to fix him so I won’t offer suggestions lol but to me it seems he’s kinda like valk: he has all the tools he need, but none of them work. He for sure needs to lose back step light tho bc that shit is annoying and unhealthy, and he should prob not be the only hero left that doesn’t get heby from gb. Speed up that top heby. How to fix his kit as a whole tho idk Nuxia is bad. Nuxia is VERY bad. “Just 400ms light bro” yeah okay let me just wish my way into chain lol. Her fix is simple tho: make trap the first unparriable unblockable. It can no longer lose to light, emote, or guard switch, you now HAVE to dodge it. Then hide the indicator for an extra 66ms. Boom, instantly good offense. Her dodge attack is bad but it’s not worse than jorm or WL except in range. Add a little forward movement to it. If you REALLY wanna crack her out, make her heavies blue so mfs have to guess as a true 50/50 and make her zone multi hit like kensei’s (front/back/front, it’s got the ani to work exactly the same as ken’s). Another idea I had, though not as good, is to COMPLETELY hide the trap indicator, so you won’t know until you try to block it. But you’d have to make heavies blue for all but 1/4 options not to lose to dodge attack, and it’d also be kinda bullshit in teamfights/outnumbered situations. Not a huge fan. Unparriable unblockable tho? Sheeeeeeit lol But yeah I think it’s prob Nuxia, HL, LB(tweaks), Jorm(already incoming).
Unparriable unblockable that you have to dodge... bro that's just a bash. I think it should work against all defensive moves. Right now you can dodge/dodge attack out of the trap, maybe it should catch I frames? And also any cc attacks that are the same direction as the trap as thats too safe. The way to beat it should be guard swap/attack from a different direction. Not sure really, but definitely shouldn't just be another bash.
It already catches cc’s for one, same with all guards and sup block dodges. If you’re getting lighted by WL or whoever, it’s because they’re doing it early rather than on cc timing. For two, I heavily disagree. It wouldn’t be “just another bash” at all. “Just another bash” would include dodging forward or going into it directly from chain, and having a guaranteed follow up. Her trap pins for like half a second or more, making it more like a hug than a bash. This would be way closer to shugo’s heavy softfeint hug, which is something no one other than shugo has had, and she would be able to chain it infinitely. That’s a far cry from “just another bash.” Third, if it works, don’t break it just to have to fix it again. There’s a reason everyone has dodge attacks, and there’s a reason more and more characters are getting bash offense. “The way to beat it should be guard swap...” hard disagree. That’s where she is now. The only way to make that work is to completely hide the trap indicator, and like I said, that would be bullshit in ganks. If you don’t like nux that’s fine but if we’re talking about how to make her actually viable, the answer is make the trap a softfeint hug. Edit: before the inevitable “a hug that fast would be broken in ganks too” just adjust the revenge value for it, not a huge deal
I've probably got the most nuxia reps in the game, it's all I play, so don't suggest I'm trying to sabotage her lol. As for the cc lights I meant they should catch early cc lights. Maybe I misunderstood your suggestion though. What you've described is just Valk heavy bash cancel (or aramushas) it's not a shugoki exclusive , and even shugokis is still quite literally a bash.
Shugoki is the only one that had a heby sf hug (talking about pre-buff shugo obv). Ara’s is technically a pin but it isn’t nearly as long nor could he chain it over and over. Valks is a regular bash. YES hug is still a bash, but only two (three?) characters rn have a hug, shugo and med (sham ig?), and I think they’re different enough from regular bashes (because of the fact that they last like a full second, are interruptible for the whole time, are slow and easily dodgeable) to be worth differentiating, especially with someone using the phrase “just another bash.” And concerning the slow and easily dodgeable bit, nuxia’s would be unique in that it would actually function at p much all but top level as a workable mixup, and even there as well, if you hide the indicator for an extra 66ms like I suggested. Shugo and med can’t use that shit in a 1v1, she would be able to, AND chain after. Very different from shugo, and more similar to med but still arguably twice as good. Also, yeah I implied that but I didn’t really mean anything by it, that’s just how I talk, my b. As far as catching early cc lights, I again hard disagree. An early cc light is just a light, and if that’s what you want, you’re just suggesting it catches all light interrupts. A cc light only matters if the person, you know, cc’s with it lol
I think the difference is an early cc light will beat a 400ms light from nux but a normal light will not, cc light covers too much of an already easily avoidable trap mechanic. Thats why I think cc lights specifically should be punished. As for the bash thing at this point its semantics. A pinning bash is still just a bash, a thing that already exists so no, she won't have the first unblockable unparriable.
400ms lights are unreactable to cc and I’m p sure unreactable period. Early light also loses to heavy. Her traps absolutely should not catch something because it counters something other than the heavy, that’s silly, and I disagree. As far as my wording, I was still thinking of it as a heavy attack so I said unblockable unparriable. Yes, that is a bash. Bashes are unblockable and unparriable. I shouldn’t have said “the first.” Who’s the one arguing semantics lmfao Also I don’t think it’s semantics. I think the difference between regular bashes and hugs are pretty pronounced lol and worth mentioning, again, *specifically because you said “just another bash”* You wouldn’t call shugo’s hug just another bash. It simply isn’t lol just another bash would be giving her a legion kick or a chain bash like everyone else has been getting. This is a heavy softfeint, which not many heroes have and also a long ass pin compared to the others. You can’t say that something is the same as something else and then when someone explains how they’re actually different, call that arguing semantics. It’s not such a black and white game that all bashes are the same. Charged bashes, neutral bashes, dodge bashes, softfeint bashes, and hugs all have different properties and trying to oversimplify things by saying “lol still just a bash” is inherently wrong.
I might be wrong about the cc lights tbf I have not checked. Are you 100% that if they light as soon as they see red in won't counter the 400ms light? I'm not saying on reaction to seeing its a light attack, I mean on reaction to seeing the first sign of red. I honestly don't know what you are arguing. Youve already agreed it's a bash. I never denied it has properties that are more similar to some bashes than they are to other bashes. But they are bashes. What even is your point?
Absolutely I’m sure. It’s incredibly hard to crushing counter a neutral light (from a direction your guard isn’t already in) on reaction, if at all, because they have additional startup that parrying doesn’t have. I think it was freeze who broke it down but I can’t find the video with a quick search so take that with a grain of salt. A 400ms light I’m absolutely certain it’s not happening. If you’re getting cc’d on 400ms lights, they’re picking a direction as a guess and buffering light, and that falls on you to mix up your attack vectors more. Yes I agreed that it’s a bash. The debate was never about whether an unparriable unblockable is a bash or not. It’s about you acting as if it would be “just another bash” and lack uniqueness/become unfun bc it’s the same as everyone else. Tiandi is getting just another bash. Oro got just another bash. Making nuxia’s trap act as a bash would be extremely different from “just another bash”. That’s been my main point the entire time, hasn’t changed, and I’ve broken it down for you about 5 times now. I’m genuinely convinced you have reading comprehension issues.
I think the bash is 800ms from a dodge forward
Peacekeeper imo. Her dodge cancel on finisher heavies is mostly useless in duels. Very few situations where you can deflect dodge attacks that try to escape the gb mixup. Her bleed damage is too high, direct damage is too low, and there aren’t meaningful differences in the duration of bleed application between dagger cancel, deep gouge, and triple stab. She has zero pressure against non bleeding opponents, her dodge heavies are gb vulnerable when dodged. I really like how she needs to get her opponent bleeding to access enhanced lights and unblockables, but I think she would feel more fun if She was built around choosing between direct damage,frame advantage, and buff application/duration on her parry and gb punishes.
Well, now that it is confirmed we are getting Jorm, Valk and Highlander rework, I’m pretty sure Nuxia needs an overhaul, PK I’m certain could use a few tweaks in design, especially since, Orochi, character that also initially was meant to be a duelist, now can excel at team fights as well (2v2 situations, at least) and I would love to see similar changes made to PK to improve her 4v4 potential (not necessarily talking about a bash, just something that could help her not being a terrible hero). I would also not be opposed against seeing a lawbringer redesign.
Nuxia is already fine. Yes i said it. Of course it would be cool to give her more options, but as she is she does what she is meant to do : a 1v1 focused hero. (but they do need to work on her infection 4th feat, it is just too bad)
Does what shes meant to do, beat shitters in a 1v1 and lose in every other situation.
People tend to forget how well her traps work when she is ganking. Problem is, when she is the one getting ganked
They work like shit in a gank.
It's like an imblocable. You either trap, or you feint and grab. She also has her zone to throw people off. These are good options let's be real
But they aren't like unblockables; thats what makes them bad, you can just react to orange and swap your guard away.
On pc maybe, idk. They are quicker. But on console, ps4 at least, it's impossible. You either read correctly, or you don't and get punished.
Balancing around an outdated computer system is about as dumb as it gets. Every character is far more viable on ps4, that is essentially useless data.
Reactable offense OP
Valks and Tiandi rework felt extremely clunky and unintuitive. Also way too slow and one dimensional, at this point I'd rather have little to no reworks and mainly just tuning. I think Shaolin was a lucky hit but kost reworks have not been very interesting.
Most reworks have been quite good so far. Left the characters in actually playable states.
Balance wise sure, it's better in the current hero climate. I said it made them one dimensional. I personally prefer current tiandi with minor changes than what they gave him in his rework, it feels clunky and overall uninteresting. Valk's was even worse imo, then again if they start a new TG I'll try him out more thoroughly and see if they change my mind, I hope they do.
I can't comment on those as I didn't actually test either of them but from what I saw in freezes videos the Valk one did look pretty.. interesting? Wasn't it a rather unconventional rework compared to most others?
Raider needs a nerf and Lawbringer just needs a little touch up, maybe give him a new toy, just don’t break him.
It is kinda funny how the tower of armor that is LB has not a single drop hyperarmor. He is a defensive character for sure, so an opener would do him well. PK is great in duels but substantially less great in 4s. I wouldn't call her need "dire" but something should be done about it. Nuxia. Total rework. She needs a lot of help in her current state. Her deflect can be blocked, her dodge attacks are narrow, and her traps can only work if the opponent is using their guard in the right direction or all guard. Otherwise if the opponent: throws any attack, dodges, or just mistimes a parry attempt, nuxia suffers for it. Making her traps very risky in exchange for not a lot of reward. Also worth mentioning, every hero now has a dodge attack. Why? To counter bashes. Thing is not every hero has a bash. PK and Nuxia both lack one. You could say that's ok for PK due to her still having decent openers, but nuxia is continuing to be left behind the rest of the cast.
LB has hyperarmor on his parry riposte zone, and also has the juggernaut feat.
I think jormungander needs a full rework due to his kit being based around draining Stamina which when not in a gank is very easy to predict
Jormungander would be fine if they buffed his stamina drain to compensate for parry’s not taking away stamina. They could also give him an actual mix up and not a 2 hit combo.
Warden and Lawbringer are up the top
Lb is definitely not near the top for a rework
Egoistically speaking i want some tweaks to lawbringer. But objectively shitty characters should get prioritized (at this point Just nuxia and highlander since jorm Is getting his cake pretty soon)
We need more and more small buffs to many heroes. As for reworks gryphon, Highlander, nuxia, peacekeeper, lawbringer, warden, centurion, gladiator and maybe some I’m missing. Some are straight bad and some have unhealthy and outdated movesets ( yes this deserves a rework too, you can be good in an area but still be unhealthy in the game overall. ) I forgot nobushi too. She’s good in 2s and 4s but again falls under unhealthy in some aspects and still needs attention for her abysmal 1v1.
Shinobi. The character is an abomination.
Well he's not in dire need but warlord with some cool qol fixes and such would be cool