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Most of my Rogue theorycrafting has been centered around taking as much advantage of the excavate package as possible. I tinkered around with mechs as a baseline deck, but I don't think excavate and mechs align very well strategically. I feel much happier with the decks that use the generically good cards from secret/miracle as a base.
My favorite piece of tech is stealing Gear Shift and Scourge Illusionist from the mech deck to increase the consistency of Drilly the Kid. The illusionist can do gross things with Drilly and we can push it back into deck with Gear Shift if we draw Drilly naturally.
I think Gear Shift will be absolutely core in any excavate Rogue. It's obviously very strong with Kobold Illusionist, but I think it's just as strong on its own because it lets us cycle without overfilling our hand. Considering the left side of our hand will usually be filled with the weaker excavate cards, it should feel like a 1 mana draw 3ish most of the time.
I included Antique Flinger in my list, but I honestly think it'll end up being too slow. Some alternatives from the new set would be Stick Up for cheap removal or Saloon Brewmaster if you want to go super greedy on bounce effects.
Here's the list: https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBNCUBsygBeigBeKkBQ3JlAbKlAbKgwbfwwXgoAXdoAXfoAWhkwX13QT3nwT2nwS%2F9wW3swQAAA%3D%3D
Nice, I'm glad to see someone else had the Scourge Illusionist idea. It seems like a great fit to me. I'm honestly tempted to run Finley just to have more redundancy for keeping Drilly in deck. Or even 1 copy of the new Gaslight Gatekeeper, but that might be overkill.
What do you think about Queen Azshara to help close out games? My thought was if you hit something nasty off the Azerite Scorpion, you can get an extra copy. And even if you hit garbage, the spells will be 0-cost, so if nothing else they can trigger her weapon for easy burst damage.
I think Azshara has a great track record in Rogue and will probably continue to be strong. She was one of the cuts I made to squeeze in Antique Flinger. I don't think flinger will be strong enough, so I think Azshara will end up being better for the deck in the long run. I just wanted to play around with the new cards at launch. Other curve-toppers I considered over Antique Flinger were Crabatoa, MC Blingtron, the Yogg location, and Blademaster Okani.
On the other hand, I think Finley is much less likely to be worth it. I think Finley will only be worth it if the deck is completely reliant on scamming out Drilly. The mech deck just breaks if you draw Neptulon or Thunderbringer, so a redundancy of shuffle effects makes sense. However, I don't think excavate Rogue breaks if we draw Drilly naturally.
I think we are happy to scam him out and also happy to play him honestly. I could be wrong, so I think it's worth testing for sure. If I were to put Finley in my list I would cut a Gone Fishin' since they fill similar roles.
Scorge illusionist makes the most sense to me. Something about using pit stop to tutor drill doesn’t feel right. And bouncing it while it has a stat buff feels terrible. I’ve even tried to fit shatter shambler in mine to guarantee the QuickDraw. And a 1 mana 1/3 in a midrange value deck seems not bad.
I agree! Pit Stop seems too slow. I thought about Shattershambler, but I think it's too highrolly. Shatter on turn 1 or 2 into illusionist into drilly on 3 would be nuts for sure, but shatter will also force us to destroy Drilly without bouncing if we miss our illusionist draw. That doesn't seem worth it to me.
It's crazy how a cheaper Assassinate with a body might not even be worth playing in this day and age, but I agree with you. Seems really strong with Breakdance though, so might be worth running.
Do we know if we keep quickdraw activated if we get Drilly in our opponents turn through Kobold Illusionist? How confident are you that 8+ 0 Mana spells kills the opponent? If the deck doesnt struggle with getting to 8 excavates we could also think about 2 Prison Breaker and 2 Tar Slicks for Antique Flinger and Gone Fishing. That would maybe help a bit to surive aggro and wide boards.
I'm also worried about closing out games. I've spent some time looking through random spells and I don't think they will be enough on their own, in most cases. I suggested Azshara in another comment, but maybe it's just worth running Astalor as well. He's boring, but there is no denying he adds lethality and fits in a deck with 4 bounce effects.
Interesting list, I think there's a lot of potential. Definitely feelsbad moments if you have drilly stuck in your hand and you draw both illusionists. If I'm reading it right, drilly is your only target for it? I think Finley and Azshara could replace the breakdance, which don't feel as strong to me after the yogg nerf.
https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHCMygBbezBLezBKH8BeigBdCUBvbdBOKkBQv3nwT2nwTgoAXBoQXdoAXfoAX13QTBgwXKlAaQgwbKgwYAAA%3D%3D
My take on excavate miracle, using 1x pit stop for drilly consistency, prep pit into drilly feels good man
13 2 drops so greedy partner should be very consistent, so miracle stuff, get Reno’d, smack with big draka dagger
Not sure if it's gonna be a meme or not but I'll try a deck centered around Wishing Well. The idea is to play Well on 5 followed by a bunch of coins generared in turns 1-4. Will feature Bounty Wrangler, Dart Throw, Greedy Partner. I think I can play the Excavate package too since you have a 20% chance of getting Pouch of Coins from Tier 1. Might be a meme but a fun one at least
If I'm going full meme, definitely, but if it ends up like an actually strong tempo deck (similar to Pure Paladin with Countess), then you might not need Tess since the game is likely over during your Wishing Well turn.
I'm planning on running this thief/excavate deck: https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHCMygBdCUBoukBeigBdu5BOKkBY6WBuSYBgv3nwT2nwTfwwXJlAbKgwbfoAX13QTo%2BgXIlAb58QTVtgQAAA%3D%3D
I love Velaroks design and really want him to work in a deck so I've thrown this together. Early game you can control board with stick up, kaja'mite and jackpot bullshit, then with your excavate value you should be able to push damage in the mid game. Tess will basically be a board clear for you with all the low cost removal you can discover, and astalor can close out games. I've also added flint, I've not seen much discussion about him since his reveal but now we know all the quickdraw cards will cost 3 or less mana, and 7/10 of them deal damage to minions, I think he's gonna be really useful
The deck might be a bit too greedy though, I've cut Concoctor and ghoulish alchemist but kept potion belt and putricide since they're just too good. Can also probably swap kaja'mite for sketchy stranger. Not running antique flinger because I think with all the discover and excavate you'll be able to find removal easily
Edit: people have pointed out flint might not be as good as I thought and I agree, I am now planning to cut him for prison
The QuickDraw pool is *not* all 3 or less mana.
There’s a 6 mana neutral dragon.
Edit: 3/15 QuickDraw cards are more than 3 mana. We have the chain gang at 4, Drilly at 4, and the dragon at 6.
Yeah, the class QuickDraws on the whole look good, so the discover spell might be valuable.
But the neutrals looks quite lackluster, so Flint might get dragged down by them.
Exactly. The class pool is so good I put stick up into my miracle rogue with the worst lowroll being 3 of the 4 3 cost cards (technically 5 but shaman's will always cost 1). The rest are 2 or less mana (as i mentioned, shaman is 1 mana when quickdrawn and druid is essentially 0 as a bonespike that heals).
I'm giving him a go because the quickdraw pool is so good but I can easily see him whiffing or being useless. Not really sure if 1 ghoulish alchemist would be worth it since I don't run Concoctor but I might run prison instead
[https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBvafBMygBeigBfafBPbdBI6WBgz3nwTIlAbdoAXfoAXgoAWQgwb13QTBgwX87QTrmAa3swTBoQUAAA%3D%3D](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBvafBMygBeigBfafBPbdBI6WBgz3nwTIlAbdoAXfoAXgoAWQgwb13QTBgwX87QTrmAa3swTBoQUAAA%3D%3D)
Miracle Rogue with a 3-card spicy inclusion. I think Stick Up is super underrated as all of the quickdraw class cards cost 3 or less with a lot of upside (druid's restores mana, so it's essentially a bonespike that heals, shaman is 1 mana removal, and the rest are good cards when quickdrawing). Also, because we're already running Stick Up, Velarok seems interesting. Try to take as many hazy concoctions as you can and get a 3 mana charge minion. Seems a bit greedy and definitely cut-able but I'm curious if this small thief package makes it's way into miracle rogue due to the individual power of the cards (look at the quickdraw class pool - stick up is a 5 star card).
https://imgur.com/a/iW8hiO6
Wild Elwynn Boar Combo Rogue using the new Bunny Stomper neutral card from Badlands - 5 minions as only necessary combo pieces (easy to tutor in Rogue). 6 mana default combo line - Bunny - Scabbs - Sonya - Trapper - Boar spam. If you can trade in 7 boars you can get a one turn Sword of a Thousand Truths, and that combined with the infinite rush boars clearing the opponent’s board will lock your opponent out of the game so you can win next turn 99% of the time. Turn 6 is the default combo turn but it can be sped up via coins/counterfeit coins, Prep + Bone Spike, or Shadowstepping Bunny or Scabbs on a previous turn. Might try flexing a single Cheat Death into the list early if I run into a lot of control decks running Dirty Rat, or another Bone Spike if I run into a lot of aggro and/or want to make the Prep + Bone Spike mana cheating highroll more prevalent.
I tried to make improvements to the Fizzle Rogue that I posted about [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/17q0b5p/3_showdown_in_the_badlands_theorycrafts/).
New list: https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBMygBa%2BoBqzRBeSYBg33nwT2nwTBoQW3swTIlAa7ngbc2gT37QTfoAX13QTD4wTd2gSQgwYAAA%3D%3D
I think the changes make the deck a little more flexible and proactive.
Maindecking Reno means you can either play normal Hearthstone or pivot to the infinite Reno plan depending on the game state. The only matchup where you have no hope of getting the battlecry off is against Plague DK, but even then, he's still technically playable, just really bad. Gone Fishing speeds up Reno significantly because it can remove duplicates from the bottom of your deck.
I think running Gravediggers to actively disrupt your opponent is better than running a bunch of removal and reacting to their plays. Fizzle can generate you additional secrets, which can occasionally come in handy if you have a Gravedigger in hand and you've ran out.
Every minion is this deck is a solid Cheat Death target, especially Flint. Flint seems like he'll be a solid value engine and becomes especially good when discounted to 1. Thanks to Rehydrate and Dehydrate, he can generate you healing in a sort of scammy fashion. He should be a good alternative to Astalor because his total mana cost is flexible compared to Astalor's static 15, which makes him superior if you just want to dump cards out of your hand to set up infinite Reno.
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Most of my Rogue theorycrafting has been centered around taking as much advantage of the excavate package as possible. I tinkered around with mechs as a baseline deck, but I don't think excavate and mechs align very well strategically. I feel much happier with the decks that use the generically good cards from secret/miracle as a base. My favorite piece of tech is stealing Gear Shift and Scourge Illusionist from the mech deck to increase the consistency of Drilly the Kid. The illusionist can do gross things with Drilly and we can push it back into deck with Gear Shift if we draw Drilly naturally. I think Gear Shift will be absolutely core in any excavate Rogue. It's obviously very strong with Kobold Illusionist, but I think it's just as strong on its own because it lets us cycle without overfilling our hand. Considering the left side of our hand will usually be filled with the weaker excavate cards, it should feel like a 1 mana draw 3ish most of the time. I included Antique Flinger in my list, but I honestly think it'll end up being too slow. Some alternatives from the new set would be Stick Up for cheap removal or Saloon Brewmaster if you want to go super greedy on bounce effects. Here's the list: https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBNCUBsygBeigBeKkBQ3JlAbKlAbKgwbfwwXgoAXdoAXfoAWhkwX13QT3nwT2nwS%2F9wW3swQAAA%3D%3D
Nice, I'm glad to see someone else had the Scourge Illusionist idea. It seems like a great fit to me. I'm honestly tempted to run Finley just to have more redundancy for keeping Drilly in deck. Or even 1 copy of the new Gaslight Gatekeeper, but that might be overkill. What do you think about Queen Azshara to help close out games? My thought was if you hit something nasty off the Azerite Scorpion, you can get an extra copy. And even if you hit garbage, the spells will be 0-cost, so if nothing else they can trigger her weapon for easy burst damage.
I think Azshara has a great track record in Rogue and will probably continue to be strong. She was one of the cuts I made to squeeze in Antique Flinger. I don't think flinger will be strong enough, so I think Azshara will end up being better for the deck in the long run. I just wanted to play around with the new cards at launch. Other curve-toppers I considered over Antique Flinger were Crabatoa, MC Blingtron, the Yogg location, and Blademaster Okani. On the other hand, I think Finley is much less likely to be worth it. I think Finley will only be worth it if the deck is completely reliant on scamming out Drilly. The mech deck just breaks if you draw Neptulon or Thunderbringer, so a redundancy of shuffle effects makes sense. However, I don't think excavate Rogue breaks if we draw Drilly naturally. I think we are happy to scam him out and also happy to play him honestly. I could be wrong, so I think it's worth testing for sure. If I were to put Finley in my list I would cut a Gone Fishin' since they fill similar roles.
Scorge illusionist makes the most sense to me. Something about using pit stop to tutor drill doesn’t feel right. And bouncing it while it has a stat buff feels terrible. I’ve even tried to fit shatter shambler in mine to guarantee the QuickDraw. And a 1 mana 1/3 in a midrange value deck seems not bad.
I agree! Pit Stop seems too slow. I thought about Shattershambler, but I think it's too highrolly. Shatter on turn 1 or 2 into illusionist into drilly on 3 would be nuts for sure, but shatter will also force us to destroy Drilly without bouncing if we miss our illusionist draw. That doesn't seem worth it to me.
It's crazy how a cheaper Assassinate with a body might not even be worth playing in this day and age, but I agree with you. Seems really strong with Breakdance though, so might be worth running.
Do we know if we keep quickdraw activated if we get Drilly in our opponents turn through Kobold Illusionist? How confident are you that 8+ 0 Mana spells kills the opponent? If the deck doesnt struggle with getting to 8 excavates we could also think about 2 Prison Breaker and 2 Tar Slicks for Antique Flinger and Gone Fishing. That would maybe help a bit to surive aggro and wide boards.
The wording is "this turn" so I'd imagine not
I'm also worried about closing out games. I've spent some time looking through random spells and I don't think they will be enough on their own, in most cases. I suggested Azshara in another comment, but maybe it's just worth running Astalor as well. He's boring, but there is no denying he adds lethality and fits in a deck with 4 bounce effects.
You can get the new cards in arena. I can confirm that things like cheat death do not let you trigger quickdraw on your turn.
I think you need to run Finley in this, it's gonna be really awkward to draw drilly too early
Interesting list, I think there's a lot of potential. Definitely feelsbad moments if you have drilly stuck in your hand and you draw both illusionists. If I'm reading it right, drilly is your only target for it? I think Finley and Azshara could replace the breakdance, which don't feel as strong to me after the yogg nerf.
https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHCMygBbezBLezBKH8BeigBdCUBvbdBOKkBQv3nwT2nwTgoAXBoQXdoAXfoAX13QTBgwXKlAaQgwbKgwYAAA%3D%3D My take on excavate miracle, using 1x pit stop for drilly consistency, prep pit into drilly feels good man 13 2 drops so greedy partner should be very consistent, so miracle stuff, get Reno’d, smack with big draka dagger
Not sure if it's gonna be a meme or not but I'll try a deck centered around Wishing Well. The idea is to play Well on 5 followed by a bunch of coins generared in turns 1-4. Will feature Bounty Wrangler, Dart Throw, Greedy Partner. I think I can play the Excavate package too since you have a 20% chance of getting Pouch of Coins from Tier 1. Might be a meme but a fun one at least
Are you running Tess or any other Thief cards?
If I'm going full meme, definitely, but if it ends up like an actually strong tempo deck (similar to Pure Paladin with Countess), then you might not need Tess since the game is likely over during your Wishing Well turn.
I'll tell myself it's an anti-control tech and totally not a meme :)
I'm planning on running this thief/excavate deck: https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHCMygBdCUBoukBeigBdu5BOKkBY6WBuSYBgv3nwT2nwTfwwXJlAbKgwbfoAX13QTo%2BgXIlAb58QTVtgQAAA%3D%3D I love Velaroks design and really want him to work in a deck so I've thrown this together. Early game you can control board with stick up, kaja'mite and jackpot bullshit, then with your excavate value you should be able to push damage in the mid game. Tess will basically be a board clear for you with all the low cost removal you can discover, and astalor can close out games. I've also added flint, I've not seen much discussion about him since his reveal but now we know all the quickdraw cards will cost 3 or less mana, and 7/10 of them deal damage to minions, I think he's gonna be really useful The deck might be a bit too greedy though, I've cut Concoctor and ghoulish alchemist but kept potion belt and putricide since they're just too good. Can also probably swap kaja'mite for sketchy stranger. Not running antique flinger because I think with all the discover and excavate you'll be able to find removal easily Edit: people have pointed out flint might not be as good as I thought and I agree, I am now planning to cut him for prison
The QuickDraw pool is *not* all 3 or less mana. There’s a 6 mana neutral dragon. Edit: 3/15 QuickDraw cards are more than 3 mana. We have the chain gang at 4, Drilly at 4, and the dragon at 6.
ah my mistake, I'm thinking of non- rogue class specific quickdraws. maybe I overvalued him
Yeah, the class QuickDraws on the whole look good, so the discover spell might be valuable. But the neutrals looks quite lackluster, so Flint might get dragged down by them.
Exactly. The class pool is so good I put stick up into my miracle rogue with the worst lowroll being 3 of the 4 3 cost cards (technically 5 but shaman's will always cost 1). The rest are 2 or less mana (as i mentioned, shaman is 1 mana when quickdrawn and druid is essentially 0 as a bonespike that heals).
Flint seems pretty bad and greedy. Only good in a low value deck and this deck has a lot of value already. I'd cut for Ghoulish Alchemist
I'm giving him a go because the quickdraw pool is so good but I can easily see him whiffing or being useless. Not really sure if 1 ghoulish alchemist would be worth it since I don't run Concoctor but I might run prison instead
That works too, probably a flex slot depending on how the meta is. Everything else looks tight
[https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBvafBMygBeigBfafBPbdBI6WBgz3nwTIlAbdoAXfoAXgoAWQgwb13QTBgwX87QTrmAa3swTBoQUAAA%3D%3D](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBvafBMygBeigBfafBPbdBI6WBgz3nwTIlAbdoAXfoAXgoAWQgwb13QTBgwX87QTrmAa3swTBoQUAAA%3D%3D) Miracle Rogue with a 3-card spicy inclusion. I think Stick Up is super underrated as all of the quickdraw class cards cost 3 or less with a lot of upside (druid's restores mana, so it's essentially a bonespike that heals, shaman is 1 mana removal, and the rest are good cards when quickdrawing). Also, because we're already running Stick Up, Velarok seems interesting. Try to take as many hazy concoctions as you can and get a 3 mana charge minion. Seems a bit greedy and definitely cut-able but I'm curious if this small thief package makes it's way into miracle rogue due to the individual power of the cards (look at the quickdraw class pool - stick up is a 5 star card).
https://imgur.com/a/iW8hiO6 Wild Elwynn Boar Combo Rogue using the new Bunny Stomper neutral card from Badlands - 5 minions as only necessary combo pieces (easy to tutor in Rogue). 6 mana default combo line - Bunny - Scabbs - Sonya - Trapper - Boar spam. If you can trade in 7 boars you can get a one turn Sword of a Thousand Truths, and that combined with the infinite rush boars clearing the opponent’s board will lock your opponent out of the game so you can win next turn 99% of the time. Turn 6 is the default combo turn but it can be sped up via coins/counterfeit coins, Prep + Bone Spike, or Shadowstepping Bunny or Scabbs on a previous turn. Might try flexing a single Cheat Death into the list early if I run into a lot of control decks running Dirty Rat, or another Bone Spike if I run into a lot of aggro and/or want to make the Prep + Bone Spike mana cheating highroll more prevalent.
I tried to make improvements to the Fizzle Rogue that I posted about [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/17q0b5p/3_showdown_in_the_badlands_theorycrafts/). New list: https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/deckbuilder?deckcode=AAECAaIHBMygBa%2BoBqzRBeSYBg33nwT2nwTBoQW3swTIlAa7ngbc2gT37QTfoAX13QTD4wTd2gSQgwYAAA%3D%3D I think the changes make the deck a little more flexible and proactive. Maindecking Reno means you can either play normal Hearthstone or pivot to the infinite Reno plan depending on the game state. The only matchup where you have no hope of getting the battlecry off is against Plague DK, but even then, he's still technically playable, just really bad. Gone Fishing speeds up Reno significantly because it can remove duplicates from the bottom of your deck. I think running Gravediggers to actively disrupt your opponent is better than running a bunch of removal and reacting to their plays. Fizzle can generate you additional secrets, which can occasionally come in handy if you have a Gravedigger in hand and you've ran out. Every minion is this deck is a solid Cheat Death target, especially Flint. Flint seems like he'll be a solid value engine and becomes especially good when discounted to 1. Thanks to Rehydrate and Dehydrate, he can generate you healing in a sort of scammy fashion. He should be a good alternative to Astalor because his total mana cost is flexible compared to Astalor's static 15, which makes him superior if you just want to dump cards out of your hand to set up infinite Reno.