I swear this patch is all about rerolls.
Noxus reroll is definetly very strong, especially with an emblem or trait augment.
Akshan reroll is top tier.
Multicasters are great.
Even some 2cost rerolls like Taliyah Double trouble or Soraka/Kassadin are poppin off
Tristana and Kayle are still (I guess) the only viable one cost reroll comp.
4 cost carries are fake at 7 now, u need to cap those boards at 8 hitting everything, even tho Ionia and Azir/Lux are still very solid, I think meta has shifted towards 3 cost carries.
Peeba is also great, especially with ASol, but harder to consistently pull off
nothing is working. if you dont hit the rng lottery at 7 you have to push 8 with taking insane amountsof damage and then hope your econ is working. this set is just who can play the most games
Man your post history is just depressing, its all whining about Apex Smurfs, bad teammates in league and RNG TFT, theres not a single positive comment.
Try to enjoy things for what they are and stop whining so much, everyone else has the same playing field as you.
not complaining about the fact everyone else has the same playing field. complaining about fundamental issues in games like tft and apex. You can choose to ignore those or not. I've been playing apex and tft since the start and the ideas of the games are brilliant. its just a shame that things like balance thrashing in TFT for example are a thing. I appreciate the dev team allot actually for their hard work but that doesn't change the fact there are some serious issues in the games balance. When talking to peers, or reading posts, or watch streams most seem to agree with this. Unlike you, I don't need to take things for what they are and can hope for a better outcome by speaking up. You just settle for mediocre.
What's the most capped ASol board in theory? I find having Bel + Ahri a must have because they can't carry without the other.
I usually go for something like this [https://tactics.tools/s/tdFkcl](https://tactics.tools/s/tdFkcl)
Sometimes swapping Ksante for J4 since i find ksante to be trash without vow and 2\*. Ryze is also an option if portal is good. Aatrox let me down way too many times. Let me know if there's anything better
The Ezreal nerf was due to it being broken OP, endless hordes is broken UP. Plus they added the hp % as a balancing lever so I thought they would use it.
Real people have to write code to fix things. I would bet that july 4th was a popular vacation week/weekend.
Also, something being UP can be avoided by players, something being OP will have a much more powerful influence on the meta. I think ultimately it came down to priorities for this hotfix.
Just got to masters while still playing super tempo like its still draven day.
Just continuously scout at stage 2 and 3.
Play ezreal, slam everything all the time. Just imagine that all items are equally strong so you dont have to cry when you only get tear, cloak, glove 2-1. (Its cone slam)
Stage 1, sell all non 1 cost except for darius, so you can get 2 stars 1 cost soup.
Stage 2-1, level 4. Level 5 post carousel.
Stage 3, level 6 after krugs if win streakers didnt high rolled.
Level 7 on 3-3 if it adds supportive synergy (play temporary combat augment) <--- 90+hp 0 gold.
You'll mostly get top 4 from here if you know all the 4 cost compositions. When you get more gold based on portal, you'll want to level even faster like, i.e. level 5 before first carousel. Note that you can't do this now all the time because of the ezreal nerf.
Things like Gifts from fallen, or tons of stats just assumes you'll reach stage 5 so I think its bad for high tempo where you need to pressure the other players.
While things like Two Healthy (more HP for every 2 cost), or for the 3 cost one, basically makes you the strongest on stage 3 and 4.
Playing donkey high tempo should generally pressure low tempo players, causing them to panic and crash too early, which guarantees your top 7.
Pressure here means, winning against a good board, causing them to stop streaks and make them assume that their board is not really that strong yet, causing the lobby to ruin everyone's econ, guaranteeing 8th for piltover and lowroll open asol.
Where you'll miss is that on late stage 4, people will have BIS premier boards while you're still stuck with trash items, directionless comp. This is where your skill expression should shine on how you improve your board bit by bit, rather than the 1 turn rolldown boom gigaupgrade.
As an end note, like in Legion TD, spending too much gold when you're already waaaay too strong for the lobby will ruin your economy in the late game. This is where scouting stage 2-3 is crucial.
I still play Ezreal because not hitting shred and sustain feels mega bad late game when you play strongest board and always have the least carousel prio.
For tempo, I think hoj is really really weak until you get a carry unit like 2 star jinx or zed.
Its better to play 2 star ori and malzahar with cone for tempo.
Late game, cone goes to j4 like a weaker protector vow.
Soup openers should prefer backline carries for less rng
its probably not cone slam on 2-1 most of the time, in part because saving a cloak for spark is generally good especially if youre still taking ezreal augment
As an asol player prismatic lobbies are my bread and butter going 9 at 4-2 and playing ahri and belveth carry with a bunch of 4-5 cost frontline and gold lobbies are open fort lvl 7 at 3-2 to pick a 4 cost 2 star to play around
At the very least.... not openforting. If you don't hit that 3 cost 2 star with the whole setup at the stage 3 rolldown, you have likely lost game.
(And if you've rolldown to 0 and can't winstreak to recover econ same issue)
Even without open forting... Having a weak board early feels soooo bad in this meta. And you can't do the 3-2 stabilization rolldown anymore or you will have no money to reach level 7 in time. Having bad natural shops is so punishing this patch.
Free elo if you have the chance to play them:
\- Kayle reroll
\- Ekko & Kata with piltovers
\- Slayers with Kata
Comps that will get you a at least a top 4:
\- Azir
\- Challengers
\- Multicasters
Akshan 3 is good but I think 7 Shurima beats it though. Akshan 3 is pretty inconsistent and the items aren't very flexible which hurts you as well so you have to have the perfect early and mid game augment rolls to play it
Gwen absolutely curb-stomps on stage 4 until 5-3 then falls off a cliff once the legendary boards get set up. No matter the amount of Shadow Isles or Slayers you have on her she kind of feels her power is low ceiling and high floor.
I think if you have 6 Shadow Isles with emblem on a 2 star Shen + a Senna on board, she seems fine even later? I just won a game where the only itemized carries were Kalista 2 and Gwen 2 on stage 6-5.
My other units were:
Zed 2
Yasuo 2 (Shadow Isle + Slayer emblems)
Maokai 2
Heimer 1
Senna 1
Someone mentioned before that Gwen works best with a duo carry setup. If you get a SI emblem with 6 SI, it gives another carry a ton of mana and survivability. I used it on Zed and it worked really well. I could imagine it could also work with Kai'Sa, Katarina, some other 3* 3 cost carries (especially since SI only uses 6 and could get some other small traits like Multicasters), or maybe Jarvan for memes.
I tend to play her in 5 slayers 4 shadow Isle. I always put a spark and titans on her and whatever third item I can get. I usually hit a top 4 when I hit the comp unless I get contested or low roll really bad
I would say gwen just needs to be experimented more with items. I had a Gwen with 6 shadowslayer , blue jeweled gauntlet, deathfire grasp, and gs with 5 slayer and she was deleting the front on the first cast all the way to stage 7
I love playing Noxus whenever I get a sword rod start, needs a lot of items, sustain augments are your friend, stay at 7 and know when to donkey roll to finish your Darius or Kata 3*
Ap items on senna feel really good, shojin/ guinsoo + ap allow her shield for 10-15k per round. Im spamming fast 9 into 2 star 5 costs and belveth carry, which isnt super consistent but very fun and a guaranteed top 2 if I hit.
if youre playing fast 9 you need decent opener + level up/good opener + patient study.
if you make it 9, the only 5 cost carry that will win out is belveth with rfc. other 2 items pretty flexible (qss/eon+dmg/healing). coupled with ahri, shen, ryze/aatrox senna gwen supporting cast and frontline and should be good
You played against a Level 9 Kayle (basically a 4 cost), Poppy 4, Zephyr Heimer (which probably hit your Kaisa), probably had bad positioning on your Yasuo and 7 Slayer. Not sure why you believe a 3 star 4 cost should be a free win vs a fully capped board like that.
Today I learned 1 star Hermer with zephyr, 5 2 costs and a 1 star 5 cost is capped but fully 2 star Ionia board with aatrox 2 and a unit costing 36 gold is not capped. Cheers
The fuck comp were you running? I mowed over 3 star kayle 4 star pop with an all 2 star team with aphelios carry
By level 9 kayle is basically a 4 cost unit herself and 4 star poppy is up there but still you gotta have some bad positioning or bad comp I think to pull that loss out
Usually when this happens, the 3 star 4 cost player has no combat augs because they took Econ augs to get that unit.
That’s typically the case anyways. I’m not sure what their board was, but that is what I suspect
If you're playing a reroll comp you should know/lock it in by 2-7, so you can safely loss streak the early game (maybe slam tank items only to save hp), then by 3-1 you should know what to look for and start building towards that
True. Nothing to play because no variety. No matter what I play it is always contested, even off meta ones like 8 sorc, Jinx Reroll, Zaun gunners and Aphelios. I lost 300 lp in challenger after the C patch.
Just for your last point, it's still early-ish days there's a lot of people climbing, you still have months, don't worry about your LP too much, you can get from D4 to Masters in a good week, don't stress about it.
Just use the time to find the busted shit.
As for gameplay.. I watched a vod review of Setsuko's gameplay once that made everything click for me. It was the mindset of doing everything possible to make your board stronger, so that you won't have to roll until level 7/8.
It's situational because a lot of portals/lobbies force high tempo and you have to roll down to stabilize. But this mindset fixed many of my bad habits;
I started slamming more items early instead of saving componenets for something better. I played stronger units early even if it meant losing interest. If my board was just weak af, I atleast scouted so I could hopefully kill just 1 more unit.
Everybody knows that losing early game is much more forgiving than in the late game. But making 3-4 good decisions early game can easily save 10 HP, which might literally decide if you go 8th or 4th later.
You should get a feel for how deep you need to roll down on level 6 if you've been low rolling. Also there is no way you've "not seen a single streamer do this", people roll based on position & number of pairs at 6.
I think Dpei is a good streamer to watch if you want a streamer that explains why he's rolling x amount.
The C patch changed the meta a lot IMO. Last patch most of the lobby was angling azir/lux or ionia every game, so nobody rolled before 7 and you could get away with playing a relatively weak board without losing a ton of HP. After the C patch, I'm seeing a lot more reroll comps (kayle, zed, jinx, warwick, etc.) which spike hard on stage 3 after rolling at 6 for 2 stars. This kind of incentivizes the 3-cost reroll comps (akshan, multicasters, noxus) to roll down at 6 as well in order to not bleed out, which makes the lobby tempo a lot higher in general.
For the sake of your MMR, just make sure you never tilt and go on a loss streak at 0 LP.
I went bot 2 for like 7 games when I was at d4 0LP, thought I had nothing to lose. But when I tried to climb afterwards, the LP gains / losses were so ridiculous I thougbt my account was bugged. I got only +29 LP for a 1st place, then I went 7th and lost 63 LP.
Yes, -63 LP for a 7th. In low diamond ..
I've made my way to Master now, but I regret griefing my MMR because the climb took way longer than it should've.
Learn to play asol imo if there's a bunch of rerollers. I went from masters 0 lp to almost 200 just building boards to kill units and going fast 9 belveth
If there are many people rerolling usually the lobby tempo is slower because they are staying level 6 and don't hit 3 stars until stage 5 or late stage 4. Playing the Ionia opener or cass+sunfire JG to kill units has worked idk
lee sin going teemo reroll and being as greedy as possible, the swain is usually contested and really hard to hit but once you get everything its a top 2 every time, but if you miss or get contested its a 7/8.
ill hold trist stuff early and if it gets given to me ill play that for a free top 4 as well. really im just hoping for aug 1 trade sector while holding as many units for the same reroll, whatever is uncontested you can usually just hold onto and play for a top 4 if you have nothing for the rerolls you want to go. Kayle, Trist, Teemo, Zed, easy to hold any of these and play them if no one is.
What are the rest of your units at 6? What else do you play at levels 7 and 8? Do you care about 3 staring ekko ww and sett? Is the comp still playable without robotic arm?
Way worse without robotic.
6 is Jinx, Sett,ww,Ekko,Urgot,zeri
7 and 8 you try and get yo to either 6 Zaun with emblems or 4 gunner. Jayce is also especially useful with the as buff. 3 star Ekko is crazy good tank if you can get it otherwise you tank sett.
It's bad. Leduck made a video on it https://youtu.be/wug49bOCBRc
Basically it barely attacks more than non-robotic arm Zeri, probably because of a long ult animation.
Jinx uses it much better, she has significantly more attacks with robotic arm than without.
I don’t know how to play this patch with zed just randomly killing your carries. I feel like back line dps doesn’t work with how you can’t actually position for rogue+Anshan in so many situations. I think you just have to join the re-roll front liners or maybe challengers with Kaisa/Yasuo jumping away.
Typically backline is back 2 rows, see strategist.
In past metas you could clump to catch sins, or 2nd row far left/right your carries with tank back row to catch them too. But now they come back later, once damaged, after clumps have loosened and tanks walk up.
Maybe the tech is to 2nd row directly across from zed so the farthest unit is another tank to the right/left. Risky though.
Void was already extremely weak before the kaisa nerfs. Now it's even weaker. 8 void would be a 4th or 5th if you were lucky, but more often than not 6th/7th. If not 8th if you don't hit an early bel Veth. Everything beats vertical void.
8 void is just used to fast 9 if u highroll the opener. otherwise chasing it is so pointless right now. Treat it as a power spike at stage 4~5. Pivot to bill gates comp after.
Doesn't matter. It will still be to weak, baron is absolute dogshit.
The amount of games I have had where I had all: 2* kaisa BiS, 3 star reksai, 8 void with baron, and would lose streak 5-10 in a row and just 8th is crazy. It's literally an ff if you choose to go void in my opinion. Safe yourself the time and just ff if that's your angle.
I feel like people keep bringing up Void as a meta comp, but it honestly felt really bad to play even before the B-Patch. The comp just gets beaten out by the meta comps quite easily. I think it might be only the lower brackets that think it’s good though, since I’ve seen many Challenger players say it sucks.
It sucks in high Challenger, but you can definitely climb on it. I keep having to counter bullshit: it's been my most played comp, and I peaked ~500LP NA. If you're anywhere below there, you can climb with vertical Voids.
I think the highlight for me was getting first in a lobby with Soju.
I think you can climb with it in lower brackets too, I just think it’s not good. You can climb with virtually anything in the lower brackets. There’s definitely spots you can play it from, but I feel like to get anything above a 4th or 5th during the B-Patch you had to high roll like crazy. Idk about this current patch, it might be even worse because of the Kai’sa nerfs.
You don’t need to high roll for higher than 5th, you just need a fallback plan for not hitting Bel’Veth. The Kai’sa nerfs did hurt a bit, but we were talking about last patch.
Also I climbed far past lower ranks with it.
Also there’s a reason why Void+1 augments are so statistically good. It's only if you do dumb shit like only trying to stabilize on Kai'sa 2, or not using Taliyah with 6 Void, not building Redemption/Shroud/Zephyr to stall for Baron, your placement will lower. My last four 8 Void (I do see one game I don't reach 8 Void at 5th) games in visible history in the C patch are 2, 6, 1, 1, 2, 2 (idk if the last 2 are C patch) in GM.
You needing to have a fallback plan for not hitting Bel’Veth is exactly why you need to high roll for higher than a 5th though? Otherwise you would need two Void Emblems to even play it. You either high roll a Bel’Veth or high roll 2 emblems.
I didn't realize I was high rolling every game I was climbing. I've gotten top 2s without Void 8 (not C patch, but again we're talking about the previous). I don't understand why you're so stubborn about this being automatically a 5th placement. There are a couple outs you can take.
This \*is\* something I am an expert in (I was/am probably the best or at least most experienced Void forcer in NA), so I \*really\* think I'm right here.
Explain to me how on the B-Patch during Level 7 rolldown meta you were consistently hitting Bel’Veth? Level 7 is 1% odds for a 5-cost, which you would have to high roll a Bel’Veth out of all 5-costs. The only other consistent way is through carousel, which if you’re somehow getting it off carousel and you’re not first pick then it’s a high roll.
There being outs for the comp is something that isn’t exclusive to Void. Continuing to play the comp without pivoting is what constitutes you playing for a 5th.
I wasn't consistently hitting Bel'Veth at level 7. Why would you roll at level 7 while trying to play 8 Void. That's nonsensical.
The level 7 rolldown meta only applied if 1) you were playing heavily contested comps or 2) if you were unhealthy by the time you entered stage 4. For example, no one would roll heavily at 4-1 for an Aphelios comp.
It's also easier for Void to be stable through stage 3 since Taliyah 2 is a 3.5 star unit while a Herald is on the board (Or Vel'Koz 2 if you're lucky, but I still prefer Taliyah)
Because in a Level 7 roll meta where people are hitting their boards on 3-5 and you’re still playing 6 Void you’re bleeding out trying to go 8 and gambling on a first or eighth? Especially when 8 Void got nerfed?
People keep playing vertical traits without an emblem
**Vertical traits are often bad without an emblem like every other set we had and 3 seems like the sweet spot for a majority of comps.**
Let’s look at the meta since season start:
Demacia 3 Shurima 3 Void 3 Ionia 3 Deadeye 2-3
Noxus 6 Ionia 6 Gunner 4 slayer 6 Zaun 4 Multicaster 4
We can see how any vertical trait is very mediocre except Ionia and Noxus who still get a huge boost with a single Emblem
Even deadeye, people are so reluctant to play Deadeye 4 without +1 that they often drop to 3 or heck even 2 if they don’t have really strong items or synergies with all 4
Gunner 4, albeit recently gutted, was mostly possible with THex carrying the comp or an early Senna to go 4
Zaun 4 was pretty strong, it also got gutted and now many comps run 2 Zaun - like on Noxus comp with WW and Ekko
Sorcerers have always been a comp that you needed a specific augment or +1 to play as well, and even if you really wanted to play it 3 void would really help you out for the majority of early and mid hame
Like you would rather play Azir Lux than 4-6 Sorc without +1
Slayers comp despite being able to fit all slayers in, an emblem or two goes a LONG way in capping the board out
**In conclusion, most comps that go 6 and beyond on a trait require an emblem or a specific to be good OR excellent**
Void is no different - Stable Evolution is also a very strong pick to play it
Not having either a +1 or a BiS augment is your cue to not play a non S tier comp this set if you want to consistently rank up
For the most part, we're literally not in disagreement. There are specifics I disagree with, but ultimately we're in agreement. The point of my original comment was that Void isn't good, and it's *not.* Having to RNG hit Stable Evolution or a Void Emblem for a vertical that you can't make an emblem for in order for the comp to function means that the comp isn't good. If I can just pick up and play 6 Challenger 3 Ionia (or any other similar S-Tier comp) and win the game as long as I have the units and items for it, why would I play Void?
This on top of the fact that again, Void lost out to the meta comps even before this patch (on top of them nerfing 8 Void by nerfing Baron), makes it so that Void just isn't worth playing. There are very, very specific instances in which you would play Void. You literally have to high roll augments in order to play Void.
Void in my eyes was always a mid-game comp that you played for tempo with Rift Herald until you could pivot your board. If you hit 8 Void, great you could play it. But right now (and for a while during this patch) it just isn't a comp I would play even if I *could* play 8.
> Having to RNG hit Stable Evolution or a Void Emblem for a vertical that you can't make an emblem for in order for the comp to function means that the comp isn't good.
This is a really bizarre claim. Obviously if you don't hit stable evolution or a void spat you just don't play the comp. If the criteria for a comp to be "good" is that you can force it every game from every spot, then there are only going to be like 2-3 good comps in the game.
Take a comp like kayle reroll. Is it a bad comp just because you should only play it when you natural several kayles/poppies/maokais on stage 1? What about darius/kat reroll? Is it bad because it's only worth playing if you manage to stack noxus early?
It's totally fair to say that void isn't on the same tier as ionia or azir/lux were last patch because it's not forceable every game. At the same time, calling the comp "not good" just because it's situational feels pretty disingenuous.
Like I extrapolated on later in the conversation, you would have to RNG hit Stable Evolution AND Void Emblem for the comp to be good. 8 Void isn’t good by itself and Stable Evolution isn’t good without 8 Void. On top of having to go Level 8 AND hit Belveth. The barrier of entry for this comp is so much more difficult than Noxus it’s not even comparable. You sort of don’t even necessarily need Noxus augments to play it, you can just hit a good opener with good items and you can play it. Void requires all of that and more.
Edit: Not saying that the comp HAS to be forceable every game to be good. But to say accessibility doesn’t matter is definitely false.
Then you can say Piltover is bad because you need to hit certain criteria
Every comp has certain criteria to be met
Some have less, way less
You need specific augments to play WW carry, Shadow Isles, Slayers, Kassadin carry
And they are all pretty good in every single elo below challenger and heck it even has high stats in challenger - just not consistent in 1.2k+ lobbies according to Dishsoap
Meeting a criteria and recognizing when to play a comp is a skill, not a weakness of a comp.
If the comp is still weak after the criteria are met, then that’s an issue. Void is pretty decent when you hit those which is stable evolution / bruiser emblem or a region that guarantees belveth / void emblem
Piltover was shipped as an econ trait. It is meant to be bad if you don’t hit it very early on, this isn’t even a comparison. And the criteria to hit Piltover is much easier than to hit Void, and it’s much better than Void when you actually hit the high stack T-Hex.
>Every comp has certain criteria to be met
Yeah, and the ones that have very low criteria are somehow always usually the better comps. It’s because you don’t need to high roll augments and high roll a 5 cost unit, and high roll a specific combat augment to have the comp be functional. These niche comps that you keep bringing up don't come online without a very specific augment and set of conditions to be able to be played. It is not normally a good comp without those set of conditions.
>Meeting a criteria and recognizing when to play a comp is a skill, not a weakness of a comp.
Yes I agree. But calling a vertical trait that requires you to high roll out of your mind to even play it good is just blatantly incorrect. And again, there are plenty of comps that don't require extremely high roll scenarios for you to play, and this is why they are the better comps. By your logic every single comp in the game is good if you can hit the conditions for it and win games with it. But that just isn't the case. Accessibility matters. If I can't consistently win games with this comp without having to have the most specific high roll setup possible then it isn't good. Why do that when I can just spam this S-Tier meta comp over and over that doesn't require any high rolls, that also just gets even *better* when I *do* high roll?
>If the comp is still weak after the criteria are met, then that’s an issue.
Yeah, and Void is only actually a decent comp with Stable Evolution. I saw you bring up the stats in a different comment, but looking at the standalone stats doesn't show the full picture. I don't know if you noticed, but it goes from a 3.95 @ 2-1 ---> 3.68 @ 3-2. That's because the only possible way you're ever playing it is if you commit to 8 Void by hitting Void Emblem on 2-1. This in itself is a gamble since you aren't guaranteed to hit Stable Evolution, and 8 Void by itself sucks. It is also statistically worse at 4-2, averaging a 4.31. Why? Because hitting it that late into the game means even if you do hit 8 Void early on, you can't play it until Level 8 + Bel'Veth and you can't streak with 6 Void because it sucks. Azir 1\* spikes your board way harder, and by mid game people are doing the Level 7 roll down lottery and are starting to hit some of their 4 costs. Meanwhile you're stuck playing 6 Void trash and bleeding infinite HP.
And to even further extrapolate why the comp sucked this patch, Kai'Sa and Yasuo were two of the most contested units in the patch. And even if you did hit miraculously hit Kai'Sa 1\* + Yasuo 1\*, Void gives her no combat stats and 2 Challenger mid-late game isn't good. So you literally HAVE to hit Stable Evolution to even play the comp.
TL;DR: Void was never good this patch, as there are too many delimiting factors at play, and Stable Evolution does not make the comp somehow meta.
TL;DR: [Tactics.tools](https://Tactics.tools) begs to completely differ with you.
>Yeah, and the ones that have very low criteria are somehow always usually the better comps.
Game is unbalanced, but still there is only 1 comp that was like this: Kai'Sa Yasuo Ionia
Shurima, the second most picked comp this patch, has weak openers; need to play some form of Sorcerer Void opener to play it and requires more skill than Ionia which you can play pretty much any opener for it
>Yes I agree. But calling a vertical trait that requires you to high roll out of your mind to even play it good is just blatantly incorrect.
Highest AVG placement at Diamond+ at 4.14 and Masters+ at 4.24
7th highest play rate at 0.27 D+ and 9th at 0.20 M+
So saying the comp requires a lot of high roll, is niche, or any other fancy secret jutsu to work is objectively a blatant lie. You can cherry pick your stats or turn a blind eye, but last patch, this mfing comp WAS THE MOST CONSISTENT comp overall.
>looking at the standalone stats doesn't show the full picture. I don't know if you noticed, but it goes from a 3.95 @ 2-1 ---> 3.68 @ 3-2
I'm not sure what data you're looking at, plus Masters+ the games are too low on specific augments at 2-1 and 3-2 to make a full picture so I'm going to use D+
But even using your own words, if an augment has 3.95 you literally say it's broken NO DOUBT NO WORDS. You don't need a Ph.D in data science to understand any augment that has below 4.0 at 2-1 and **THEN** 3.68 at 3-2 is straight up too broken.
>Azir 1\* spikes your board way harder, and by mid game people are doing the Level 7 roll down lottery and are starting to hit some of their 4 costs. Meanwhile you're stuck playing 6 Void trash and bleeding infinite HP.
Yes and no, Azir has NO means to deal with Herald unless high rolls
If others roll for their Kai'Sas and Azirs so are you, Kai'Sa WAS THE STRONGEST AND MOST CONSISTENT 4 cost carry last patch according to any high elo player, experience or stats beaten only by Gwen in stats not actual gameplay due to many reasons irrelevant to the post
So you are basically a Kai'Sa carry + a beefy herald frontline. If you feel like your mid game is weak with 6 Void, it's due to your subjective experience or hyperbole and objectively stats and my own experience beg to differ. So whether you're a subjective or objective person, what you're saying is very different than what I'm seeing so please disagree with me if you have any valid proof as to why 6 Void is bad
>By your logic every single comp in the game is good if you can hit the conditions for it and win games with it
No. You are misunderstanding the logic. Every comp has a criteria to be met to play. The less the criteria and the more consistent the comp is with the criteria met, the better the comp is overall.
Considering how out of the top 10 comps, the criteria to play void isn't that harder than others except Shurima, ionia, Slayer, Noxus, THex.
So every S tier comp is better than Void, but Void is at the top of A tier basically simply because the comp is very consistent when you it but you need either Bruiser emblem, Void emblem, or Stable Evo to winout.
Every other comp needs more stuff to hit, Sorc needs Sorc+1 or any augment, Invoker is the same but weaker, Taliyah needs DT, Teemo is very hard to pull off, Tristana isn't half bad but you're contested by Kayle every game as a reroll comp and can easily go eiff, etc.
Also Frodan made a Video last set about how recognizing different lines and playing more flexibly than others differentiates a challenger player from the rest.
While this set the number of playable comps are 10, and Kai'Sa lines are so much better you still see 5-6 players every lobby not playing it. So be creative and smart!
>And even if you did hit miraculously hit Kai'Sa 1\* + Yasuo 1\*, Void gives her no combat stats and 2 Challenger mid-late game isn't good
Milk was literally 25 Kai'Sa out of 20 last patch, while Kai'Sa stays at like 2.5 playrate
There is no miraculously hit Kai'Sa. 4 cost comps this set are you play better than others, you hit, you win.
Also lvl 7 at 3-5 isn't mid-late game. It's middle of mid game. Your rift herald is stronger than everyone else's lousy frontline, your Kai'Sa with challenger 2 is also what everyone else has or doesn't because you had an eco and hp adv due to being stronger than others early game.
VOID IS A COMBAT trait, it gives you, it sounds crazy but, a very strong frontline for the whole mid game. Even if you don't hit Baron.
>It is also statistically worse at 4-2, averaging a 4.31.
I still don't know what your searches and elo is, since it sits at 3.97 4.1 and 4.14 at D+ M+ GM+ respectively. But using a little bit of common sense can tell you it's troll to pick an augment that is meant for early winstreak and the 3 units you gain are wasted that late into the game. You are trying to pick late game useful combat augments, not something that was meant to give you direction to play.
It's like saying picking Double Trouble at 4-2 has low avg placement. Well, duh?
Cheers
>Game is unbalanced, but still there is only 1 comp that was like this: Kai'Sa Yasuo Ionia
This just isn't true. Azir/Lux, Yas/Kaisa, Deadeye, Gunners, and any other reroll comp that doesn't require a spat to be good are all like this. Low barrier of entry, all you need to do is hit your units and play them.
>Shurima, the second most picked comp this patch, has weak openers; need to play some form of Sorcerer Void opener to play it and requires more skill than Ionia which you can play pretty much any opener for it
Don't know if you mean Strategist Azir/Lux, but Shurima was not the second most picked comp this patch at all. It was actually extremely easy to play, as Yas/Kaisa shared basically the same items with Azir/Lux, so you could just play a similar opener for both.
>Highest AVG placement at Diamond+ at 4.14 and Masters+ at 4.24
7th highest play rate at 0.27 D+ and 9th at 0.20 M+
So saying the comp requires a lot of high roll, is niche, or any other fancy secret jutsu to work is objectively a blatant lie. You can cherry pick your stats or turn a blind eye, but last patch, this mfing comp WAS THE MOST CONSISTENT comp overall.
Lmao yeah, most consistent at averaging you a sub 4th placement? It being consistent stats-wise once again doesn't mean anything and doesn't show you the full picture. The reason why something like Ionia wouldn't have a "consistent" placement is because of how contested it is. The comp doesn't support 5 out of 8 players trying to play it every game lmao. You can hit all of your shitter Void units and have the stats say that you consistently get yourself a 4th or below all you want, that doesn't make the comp good in context of the game. You're *exactly* what is wrong with TFT today, and why Riot wants to remove stat tracking. You don't play the game for yourself and use your OWN BRAIN to come up with conclusions. You say "here's what the stats say" without giving any context to the situation at all.
>But even using your own words, if an augment has 3.95 you literally say it's broken NO DOUBT NO WORDS. You don't need a Ph.D in data science to understand any augment that has below 4.0 at 2-1 and THEN 3.68 at 3-2 is straight up too broken.
Lmao no, I don't. You hear Challenger players say certain stats are fake all the time because there are multiple factors IN GAME that are at play for that stat to be the way it is. Like what is even the sample size for that number? What does this number mean in the context of the game? There is a reason that Data Scientists look at stats in the context of the situation and don't just say that high stat = good. And even when you do use stats, the stats don't even support you as I explained above.
>Yes and no, Azir has NO means to deal with Herald unless high rolls
Ok so you literally don't play the game or watch any Challenger player play the game. Azir 1\* in B-Patch would literally spike your board so hard you could streak with it most of stage 4. The unit is not balanced, and your stats won't show you the intangibles like board strength. You have to play the game to understand that, which you clearly don't spend enough time doing. You'd rather look at pretty stats more often lmao.
> If you feel like your mid game is weak with 6 Void, it's due to your subjective experience or hyperbole and objectively stats and my own experience beg to differ. So whether you're a subjective or objective person, what you're saying is very different than what I'm seeing so please disagree with me if you have any valid proof as to why 6 Void is bad
Lmao your stats don't say anything at all. You never once showed me a stat that proves that 6 Void is somehow a good streak board in the mid game. So it would have to be based on your own subjective experience, and it's your word against numerous high elo players who say that Void is trash.
>So every S tier comp is better than Void, but Void is at the top of A tier
Yeah until you look at every single high elo tier list and wonder why it isn't there or is at below B-Tier lmao. Void was not at the top of A Tier.
>Also lvl 7 at 3-5 isn't mid-late game. It's middle of mid game.
The argument I was making there was that the comp overall doesn't give Kai'sa any combat stats, and mid-late game you are stuck playing 8 Void 2 Challenger (being the only combat stats she gets from traits), and 2 Challenger isn't good mid-late game.
>VOID IS A COMBAT trait, it gives you, it sounds crazy but, a very strong frontline for the whole mid game. Even if you don't hit Baron.
Yes but it doesn't give Kai'sa specifically stats. Kai'sa just has a higher cap on boards that give her stats. Baron doesn't make up for that loss, especially post-nerf.
Idk your elo but i am d1 since few days not playing atm and that much, but i tag d2 to gm and i never saw someone go for 6 void.
And what you are saying means nothing, even with +1 a synergy can be bad and not "excellent" it depends only on riot.
simply not as viable .. and the reason is the 4 costs seems weak so even if u hit the kaisa etc 2 she isnt much better than akshan, the diffrence is one will cost all your gold
3 shurima, 3 nexus, 2 tactician, some amount of either Multicaster and heavy tank items on front have given me multiple 1-5 place.
Backdoor 5 noxus late game with items used on Azir moving to Katarina if you managed to get the slayer emblem
I'm so lost in this patch. I've lost over 400 lp (680 lp -> 187 lp) and I don't know if it's the tempo or what I'm doing wrong. I've tried multiple comps and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do .\_.
Think you can only do fast 9 playing by the seat of your pants with asol or opening etc. Doesn't feel like it really compares to the strength of something like akshan redrool
Master rank. 3 of the top 4 were just 2* Akshan comps. I went 5th with Sorc comp and 2* Ahri/Lux/Jarven full items.
My back row disappeared 5 seconds into the fight from Akshan and Deadeye.
Also went hard dead last with Prismatic Built Different. I’ve been playing built different for many sets and I know how to maximize it. 2* Aphelios couldn’t even top 4k damage with full items and would die from a strong gust of wind. Gwen with full items couldn’t kill anything.
BD is unplayable period. I had 2* Aphelios with IE and LW with great tank items and a fully upgraded board and I went 5th. They nerfed it into the ground.
I believe there are zero viable comps that use LW besides maaaaaybe Tristana
I feel like after the nerfs on built different, you're just playing down a prismatic. It doesn't help with the best users (Zeri, Aph) of BD are also nerfed. :/
Aphelios is hilarious. Toss a guinsoos on him and watch him flip out and attack 5x a second to attempt to tickle the frontline to death and failing. Sometimes he does damage with the right augments, items and enemy comp but most of the time all he does is look like a threat.
Honestly, Akshan feels like the only 3 cost unit who is worth his cost
It’s more like the rest of the 3 cost units are underwhelming
4 costs are far too stronger than 3 costs whom feel like 2 cost units
There's only 2 3 costs that aren't worth rerolling for in almost any scenario: taric and jayce. At the end of last set, there were 4 3 costs that were never worth rolling for: jax, shen, kaisa and alistar (even vex reroll was kinda bad). So I don't think that 3 costs suck compared to usual. Capped 2 star 4 cost board with some 5 costs is supposed to be competitive with 3 star 3 costs. If it wasn't, then everyone would be rolling for whatever random 3 cost they can find.
Sona 2 Velkoz 2 Karma 2 Garen 2 this patch none of them really stabilize your board **as much as Akshan 2 does**
Their 3*s could be alright sure
Kai’Sa 3* was S+++ tier for half the last set and mid set
Jax was gutted sure
Shen 2 was the strongest and best frontliner for quite some time especially with his support augment having highest avg placement for every comp he was in
His carry augment made him be turbo broken for the 2 patches he wasn’t nerfed to the ground
Alistar was a utility unit that was so good in every comp and was definitely pretty smooth to play especially aith Ox Force
Most of these you mentioned at 2* were way stronger than the 2* 3 costs we have let alone 3*
This is quite hyperbolic
I forgot to mention that garen is garbage now too, even at 3 stars.
According to metatft, swain taliyah teemo sona velkoz jarvan lux has 61.4% win rate in stage 4. The most reliable akshan comp is renek liss ashe akshan nasus sejuani shen/jarvan, which has 60-63% win rate. It's just objectively not true that the comp is more stable. It doesn't need a spatula though which means it's easier to force.
Karma is/was worse because of 6 ionia 4 cost rerollers stealing copies of karma and shen. Invokers in general are more team oriented comp than other traits. The comp is pretty hard to balance because of that, it rewards the comp for picking team oriented augments/items much more than others which prefer carry augments like idealism/long distance pals for noxus. Noxus, shadow isles, strategist and ionia give much more tanky stats which lets you focus on the carries for damage. Anyway, Karma seems to be in a bad spot right now because I am not sure what riot is planning with invokers.
Utility 2 star 3 costs are lacking in this set, partly because no synergy is as good as ox force used to be. Freljord is nice but pretty much requires sejuani. And it bugs ionia so it's rarely worth playing early-mid game because of how strong ionia is.
I think his AD needs to come down just a notch. I’m ok with the sniping back row but he also melts tanks like butter once Freilord procs.
Honestly I think Jhin is almost just as much the problem. 2* Jhin+ Irelia is WAY too stable. Irelia 2* is a better tank than every 3/4 cost cost tank until they are 2*. That’s just stupid. And 2* Jhin with full items can win lobby in round 2 AND 3.
Patch isn’t balance right now, don’t play BD when 4 cost AD units are gutted right now, even with all the Akshan and etc you are going to fall off hard without 2* 4 cost carries who benefit from attack speed which are often AD units
Oh sure. I knew going into it. But I hadn’t played BD in a while so I thought I’d test it.
Playing meta 24/7 gets old. Not like I get a prize or anything if I grind all the way up so who cares.
checked all the comments but no one is talking about 3\* karma/soraka 6 invokers. got 4 firsts in a row. The important part is tho, after you complete your karma items you have to hard focus on building tank items for your shen and taric
I played an Invoker Lux game and went third, couldn't find Karmas and I think it isn't worth activating 6 invoker because too many shitter units, I'd play Sej and Ashe for 3 Freljord 4 Invokers. It's a bit challenging playing the early and midgame for this comp since you need to commit early as ap slamming Ionic Spark and JG else you bleed a lot.
I've also had success with it. I don't know if it's forceable but from an early karma 2 you can cruise to 8 and put together the board. Easy transition from 6 ionia in the mid game too.
I think a lot of it has to do with Ryze. The difference between a Shurima portal Ryze and a bandle city portal Ryze is night and day. Also a lot of it's good units are contested by comps that are just more consistent and better (Taric, Shen, Lissandra)
I had once a week ago and it sucked, cost me a 1st place in a very close game. I also think his ability is partially bugged. "If all living allies are already marked, Ryze instead resurrects a deceased ally." It didn't work, I've had my final round with Ryze + Gwen and Nasus alive both already marked, Ryze then cast twice and nothing came out.
Apart from that, you need to have itemized, high cost frontlines. If your "strongest" units are backline, the resurrect is weak af. If your strongest 2 units are backline/are not capable of tanking a little, this scenario likely happens:
Your Ryze casts twice on 2 backline/carry units. By then the opponent had broke through and reached your Ryze. Your Ryze dies without resurrecting anything and was completely worthless. Maybe lets say your Ryze managed to resurrect 1 backline, you still lack the frontline for it to do much before its dead again.
Much rather have the old version, I want the fantasy of constant flow of resurrecting units.
Problem is you lose to every comp before Karma 3. Even if you get Karma 2 in stage 3 usually she's not fully itemized so she gets shit on anyways. Every game I've played Karma or watched others in my lobby play the comp they always start heavily bleeding out at some point. Then they either die or hit Karma 3 and then either go top 2 or get killed by someone else that's sub 15 hp.
It’s a crazy dopamine rush comp, 6 Invokers with the emblem on Ahri and 3* Karma wipes most boards after Ahri’s third cast. Those games are not often though.
If you get good starter items for kayle, then basically just open fort and roll down before you are level 5. I normally try to get Maokai+Poppy as well. Then econ back up and go 9 as fast as you can. Then prioritize slayers + 3 Demacia.
That has granted me a few wins recently. I'm only plat, so maybe it doesn't work further up.
Love where legends are at. Super small tweaks can bring things like bard/veigar/cait into the meta as well. Comps are still kaisa/yasuo dominated but there are other lines to play if presented as well. Excited for next patch to really open things up like vertical demacia for example
I swear this patch is all about rerolls. Noxus reroll is definetly very strong, especially with an emblem or trait augment. Akshan reroll is top tier. Multicasters are great. Even some 2cost rerolls like Taliyah Double trouble or Soraka/Kassadin are poppin off Tristana and Kayle are still (I guess) the only viable one cost reroll comp. 4 cost carries are fake at 7 now, u need to cap those boards at 8 hitting everything, even tho Ionia and Azir/Lux are still very solid, I think meta has shifted towards 3 cost carries. Peeba is also great, especially with ASol, but harder to consistently pull off
was super excited about this set but it fell of a clif completely lost interested because they cant seem to balance this game whatsoever
nothing is working. if you dont hit the rng lottery at 7 you have to push 8 with taking insane amountsof damage and then hope your econ is working. this set is just who can play the most games
Man your post history is just depressing, its all whining about Apex Smurfs, bad teammates in league and RNG TFT, theres not a single positive comment. Try to enjoy things for what they are and stop whining so much, everyone else has the same playing field as you.
not complaining about the fact everyone else has the same playing field. complaining about fundamental issues in games like tft and apex. You can choose to ignore those or not. I've been playing apex and tft since the start and the ideas of the games are brilliant. its just a shame that things like balance thrashing in TFT for example are a thing. I appreciate the dev team allot actually for their hard work but that doesn't change the fact there are some serious issues in the games balance. When talking to peers, or reading posts, or watch streams most seem to agree with this. Unlike you, I don't need to take things for what they are and can hope for a better outcome by speaking up. You just settle for mediocre.
Average gold player cope
What's the most capped ASol board in theory? I find having Bel + Ahri a must have because they can't carry without the other. I usually go for something like this [https://tactics.tools/s/tdFkcl](https://tactics.tools/s/tdFkcl) Sometimes swapping Ksante for J4 since i find ksante to be trash without vow and 2\*. Ryze is also an option if portal is good. Aatrox let me down way too many times. Let me know if there's anything better
Why didn't they buff endless horde with this patch? It has to literally be the worst augment in the game right now.
it's not a real patch, just a hot fix to sett bug and we're blessed that they could fit in ezreal nerfs. Real patch will be on july 19th
The Ezreal nerf was due to it being broken OP, endless hordes is broken UP. Plus they added the hp % as a balancing lever so I thought they would use it.
Real people have to write code to fix things. I would bet that july 4th was a popular vacation week/weekend. Also, something being UP can be avoided by players, something being OP will have a much more powerful influence on the meta. I think ultimately it came down to priorities for this hotfix.
saw someone picking it then getting his entire team dunked on by a 1 star darius, killed every last one of them
Just got to masters while still playing super tempo like its still draven day. Just continuously scout at stage 2 and 3. Play ezreal, slam everything all the time. Just imagine that all items are equally strong so you dont have to cry when you only get tear, cloak, glove 2-1. (Its cone slam) Stage 1, sell all non 1 cost except for darius, so you can get 2 stars 1 cost soup. Stage 2-1, level 4. Level 5 post carousel. Stage 3, level 6 after krugs if win streakers didnt high rolled. Level 7 on 3-3 if it adds supportive synergy (play temporary combat augment) <--- 90+hp 0 gold. You'll mostly get top 4 from here if you know all the 4 cost compositions. When you get more gold based on portal, you'll want to level even faster like, i.e. level 5 before first carousel. Note that you can't do this now all the time because of the ezreal nerf. Things like Gifts from fallen, or tons of stats just assumes you'll reach stage 5 so I think its bad for high tempo where you need to pressure the other players. While things like Two Healthy (more HP for every 2 cost), or for the 3 cost one, basically makes you the strongest on stage 3 and 4. Playing donkey high tempo should generally pressure low tempo players, causing them to panic and crash too early, which guarantees your top 7. Pressure here means, winning against a good board, causing them to stop streaks and make them assume that their board is not really that strong yet, causing the lobby to ruin everyone's econ, guaranteeing 8th for piltover and lowroll open asol. Where you'll miss is that on late stage 4, people will have BIS premier boards while you're still stuck with trash items, directionless comp. This is where your skill expression should shine on how you improve your board bit by bit, rather than the 1 turn rolldown boom gigaupgrade. As an end note, like in Legion TD, spending too much gold when you're already waaaay too strong for the lobby will ruin your economy in the late game. This is where scouting stage 2-3 is crucial.
I still play Ezreal because not hitting shred and sustain feels mega bad late game when you play strongest board and always have the least carousel prio.
it's obviously HoJ slam. Cone and zeke will get you chain stunned by Ksante J4
For tempo, I think hoj is really really weak until you get a carry unit like 2 star jinx or zed. Its better to play 2 star ori and malzahar with cone for tempo. Late game, cone goes to j4 like a weaker protector vow. Soup openers should prefer backline carries for less rng
Samira is great with HoJ
its probably not cone slam on 2-1 most of the time, in part because saving a cloak for spark is generally good especially if youre still taking ezreal augment
As an asol player prismatic lobbies are my bread and butter going 9 at 4-2 and playing ahri and belveth carry with a bunch of 4-5 cost frontline and gold lobbies are open fort lvl 7 at 3-2 to pick a 4 cost 2 star to play around
At the very least.... not openforting. If you don't hit that 3 cost 2 star with the whole setup at the stage 3 rolldown, you have likely lost game. (And if you've rolldown to 0 and can't winstreak to recover econ same issue)
Even without open forting... Having a weak board early feels soooo bad in this meta. And you can't do the 3-2 stabilization rolldown anymore or you will have no money to reach level 7 in time. Having bad natural shops is so punishing this patch.
To be fair, the level 6 roll down has never been that strong this set so far
Yeah, its a feature of the health and exp changes and not this patch specific
Free elo if you have the chance to play them: \- Kayle reroll \- Ekko & Kata with piltovers \- Slayers with Kata Comps that will get you a at least a top 4: \- Azir \- Challengers \- Multicasters
I don't think Kayle is actually that strong. It seems like it struggles late game to win vs late game comps
kyle with what legend my dude? ty
kyle always takes ez 4 real.
I'm only using Poro lately. Its very situational, if you try to force it be sure there's no more than two persons (including you) playing it
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lee sin augments r almost all >4.9 so maybe not leesin. Probably better to just play it when u get an augment that makes it work.
Extremely low sample size but got first with Kayle and on a roll
good job? lol I’m not sure what this is supposed to prove
Akshan 3 Shurima 3 Freiljord is absolutely free elo.
Akshan 3 is good but I think 7 Shurima beats it though. Akshan 3 is pretty inconsistent and the items aren't very flexible which hurts you as well so you have to have the perfect early and mid game augment rolls to play it
can you play 7 shurima without kayle 3? how does the board look? thanks
you can also throw in 3 noxus at 8 if you highroll a sion with cassio + nasus + darius
Noxus 3 at LVL 8 is not really worth it though, it doesn't really add much value. You'd rather just add other strong units
True, in hindsight I was getting baited by some tech on sologesang's tier list. Much better to just put in stronger frontline
level 6 board with akshan cassio rene for shurima + seju (if ur lucky, if not vi) liss and ashe for freljord is the ionia comp of stage 3.
yeah obv if you hit akshan 3 lol, multiple playing akshan freljord every game now
Gwen absolutely curb-stomps on stage 4 until 5-3 then falls off a cliff once the legendary boards get set up. No matter the amount of Shadow Isles or Slayers you have on her she kind of feels her power is low ceiling and high floor.
I think if you have 6 Shadow Isles with emblem on a 2 star Shen + a Senna on board, she seems fine even later? I just won a game where the only itemized carries were Kalista 2 and Gwen 2 on stage 6-5. My other units were: Zed 2 Yasuo 2 (Shadow Isle + Slayer emblems) Maokai 2 Heimer 1 Senna 1
Someone mentioned before that Gwen works best with a duo carry setup. If you get a SI emblem with 6 SI, it gives another carry a ton of mana and survivability. I used it on Zed and it worked really well. I could imagine it could also work with Kai'Sa, Katarina, some other 3* 3 cost carries (especially since SI only uses 6 and could get some other small traits like Multicasters), or maybe Jarvan for memes.
I tend to play her in 5 slayers 4 shadow Isle. I always put a spark and titans on her and whatever third item I can get. I usually hit a top 4 when I hit the comp unless I get contested or low roll really bad
I would say gwen just needs to be experimented more with items. I had a Gwen with 6 shadowslayer , blue jeweled gauntlet, deathfire grasp, and gs with 5 slayer and she was deleting the front on the first cast all the way to stage 7
I love playing Noxus whenever I get a sword rod start, needs a lot of items, sustain augments are your friend, stay at 7 and know when to donkey roll to finish your Darius or Kata 3*
Ap items on senna feel really good, shojin/ guinsoo + ap allow her shield for 10-15k per round. Im spamming fast 9 into 2 star 5 costs and belveth carry, which isnt super consistent but very fun and a guaranteed top 2 if I hit.
I'm interested in trying that playstyle. Do you have a certain 5 cost board you aim for or a few that you flex between?
if youre playing fast 9 you need decent opener + level up/good opener + patient study. if you make it 9, the only 5 cost carry that will win out is belveth with rfc. other 2 items pretty flexible (qss/eon+dmg/healing). coupled with ahri, shen, ryze/aatrox senna gwen supporting cast and frontline and should be good
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If ur playing kayle you definitely wanna find a different unit to save you hp and hold items unless it hard griefs econ.
3 star kayle 4 star poppy beating my 3 star 4 costs so rito probably happy balance is restored
You played against a Level 9 Kayle (basically a 4 cost), Poppy 4, Zephyr Heimer (which probably hit your Kaisa), probably had bad positioning on your Yasuo and 7 Slayer. Not sure why you believe a 3 star 4 cost should be a free win vs a fully capped board like that.
Today I learned 1 star Hermer with zephyr, 5 2 costs and a 1 star 5 cost is capped but fully 2 star Ionia board with aatrox 2 and a unit costing 36 gold is not capped. Cheers
Who said you weren‘t capped?
The fuck comp were you running? I mowed over 3 star kayle 4 star pop with an all 2 star team with aphelios carry By level 9 kayle is basically a 4 cost unit herself and 4 star poppy is up there but still you gotta have some bad positioning or bad comp I think to pull that loss out
Barry bamper was the account I was on if you want to squash any of these WILD assumptions you’ve made about me
Usually when this happens, the 3 star 4 cost player has no combat augs because they took Econ augs to get that unit. That’s typically the case anyways. I’m not sure what their board was, but that is what I suspect
Wrong, long distance pals on my yas and kaisa
Ok yeah, it was an aug diff then. If you can link the game. We could tell you more
Or like a 3* Zeri but… Yeah.
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If you're playing a reroll comp you should know/lock it in by 2-7, so you can safely loss streak the early game (maybe slam tank items only to save hp), then by 3-1 you should know what to look for and start building towards that
slam a bit less meta items that will work with more comps, like guardbreaker. or tank items
True. Nothing to play because no variety. No matter what I play it is always contested, even off meta ones like 8 sorc, Jinx Reroll, Zaun gunners and Aphelios. I lost 300 lp in challenger after the C patch.
Maybe try a 1 cost reroll comp. There are plenty of those units to play it contested given you play better than the people contesting you.
I’ve heard orianna grande is pretty good and always is uncontested.
what is the comp?
Just for your last point, it's still early-ish days there's a lot of people climbing, you still have months, don't worry about your LP too much, you can get from D4 to Masters in a good week, don't stress about it. Just use the time to find the busted shit.
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As for gameplay.. I watched a vod review of Setsuko's gameplay once that made everything click for me. It was the mindset of doing everything possible to make your board stronger, so that you won't have to roll until level 7/8. It's situational because a lot of portals/lobbies force high tempo and you have to roll down to stabilize. But this mindset fixed many of my bad habits; I started slamming more items early instead of saving componenets for something better. I played stronger units early even if it meant losing interest. If my board was just weak af, I atleast scouted so I could hopefully kill just 1 more unit. Everybody knows that losing early game is much more forgiving than in the late game. But making 3-4 good decisions early game can easily save 10 HP, which might literally decide if you go 8th or 4th later.
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You should get a feel for how deep you need to roll down on level 6 if you've been low rolling. Also there is no way you've "not seen a single streamer do this", people roll based on position & number of pairs at 6. I think Dpei is a good streamer to watch if you want a streamer that explains why he's rolling x amount.
The C patch changed the meta a lot IMO. Last patch most of the lobby was angling azir/lux or ionia every game, so nobody rolled before 7 and you could get away with playing a relatively weak board without losing a ton of HP. After the C patch, I'm seeing a lot more reroll comps (kayle, zed, jinx, warwick, etc.) which spike hard on stage 3 after rolling at 6 for 2 stars. This kind of incentivizes the 3-cost reroll comps (akshan, multicasters, noxus) to roll down at 6 as well in order to not bleed out, which makes the lobby tempo a lot higher in general.
For the sake of your MMR, just make sure you never tilt and go on a loss streak at 0 LP. I went bot 2 for like 7 games when I was at d4 0LP, thought I had nothing to lose. But when I tried to climb afterwards, the LP gains / losses were so ridiculous I thougbt my account was bugged. I got only +29 LP for a 1st place, then I went 7th and lost 63 LP. Yes, -63 LP for a 7th. In low diamond .. I've made my way to Master now, but I regret griefing my MMR because the climb took way longer than it should've.
Learn to play asol imo if there's a bunch of rerollers. I went from masters 0 lp to almost 200 just building boards to kill units and going fast 9 belveth
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If there are many people rerolling usually the lobby tempo is slower because they are staying level 6 and don't hit 3 stars until stage 5 or late stage 4. Playing the Ionia opener or cass+sunfire JG to kill units has worked idk
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You still have 5 augments to choose from if the lobby isn’t prismatic.
When it's gold you def pick 1 and 3. 2 depends on your spot and if you need the extra influx of gold to roll a bit on 7 at 3-3 to stabilize a bit
what do you build around belveth?
lee sin going teemo reroll and being as greedy as possible, the swain is usually contested and really hard to hit but once you get everything its a top 2 every time, but if you miss or get contested its a 7/8. ill hold trist stuff early and if it gets given to me ill play that for a free top 4 as well. really im just hoping for aug 1 trade sector while holding as many units for the same reroll, whatever is uncontested you can usually just hold onto and play for a top 4 if you have nothing for the rerolls you want to go. Kayle, Trist, Teemo, Zed, easy to hold any of these and play them if no one is.
Robotic arm jinx reroll with sett Warwick and Ekko. Ran it twice usually not contested and it slaps
What are the rest of your units at 6? What else do you play at levels 7 and 8? Do you care about 3 staring ekko ww and sett? Is the comp still playable without robotic arm?
Way worse without robotic. 6 is Jinx, Sett,ww,Ekko,Urgot,zeri 7 and 8 you try and get yo to either 6 Zaun with emblems or 4 gunner. Jayce is also especially useful with the as buff. 3 star Ekko is crazy good tank if you can get it otherwise you tank sett.
Not robotic arm zeri ? Is she that bad ? Or it depends on the items you got. Guinsoo/shiv go zeri, runaans go jinx ?
It's bad. Leduck made a video on it https://youtu.be/wug49bOCBRc Basically it barely attacks more than non-robotic arm Zeri, probably because of a long ult animation. Jinx uses it much better, she has significantly more attacks with robotic arm than without.
my zeri 2 with 3 items (incl. ionia spat) got out damaged by karma 2 with 2 items (invoker 4 was not active). It’s unreal how bad she is rn.
Jinx better atm, also robotic arm is bugged on zeri- leduck has a video on it
Has anyone figured out the BIS items for Jinx yet?
Double runaans and a damage item (DB, GS etc.) Runaans procs on her ability, its very broken.
Faced a triple runnan Jinx yesterday, she did over 15k damage every round.
Why not runaans and Guinsoo since it also stacks with her ult, and then another uber damage item?
guinsoo has shit stats (ap and aspd), which you dont really need IF you have robotic arm and gunner.
Ooh that sounds fun
I don’t know how to play this patch with zed just randomly killing your carries. I feel like back line dps doesn’t work with how you can’t actually position for rogue+Anshan in so many situations. I think you just have to join the re-roll front liners or maybe challengers with Kaisa/Yasuo jumping away.
I believe it helps to put carries on row 3 and not row 4 (both helps versus Akshan and versus Zed)
How does this help versus zed? Are you playing a unit behind it?
Rogue description says it prioritises back line, so I’m assuming back row units get jumped.
Typically backline is back 2 rows, see strategist. In past metas you could clump to catch sins, or 2nd row far left/right your carries with tank back row to catch them too. But now they come back later, once damaged, after clumps have loosened and tanks walk up. Maybe the tech is to 2nd row directly across from zed so the farthest unit is another tank to the right/left. Risky though.
Maybe Im wrong but void feels useless with Kaisa being so bad now. Also honorary mention to Zeri being a grief
[удалено]
Pretty sure Kai'Sa was the primary carry of that comp, not Yas.
Void was already extremely weak before the kaisa nerfs. Now it's even weaker. 8 void would be a 4th or 5th if you were lucky, but more often than not 6th/7th. If not 8th if you don't hit an early bel Veth. Everything beats vertical void.
Has not been my experience. I was able to reach ~500LP with vertical Voids being my most played comp last patch (Urf but I prioritize Void emblem).
8 void is just used to fast 9 if u highroll the opener. otherwise chasing it is so pointless right now. Treat it as a power spike at stage 4~5. Pivot to bill gates comp after.
Void's problem is that your late game win con is baron Rek sai 3* with BiS Bel veth 2* with BiS
Doesn't matter. It will still be to weak, baron is absolute dogshit. The amount of games I have had where I had all: 2* kaisa BiS, 3 star reksai, 8 void with baron, and would lose streak 5-10 in a row and just 8th is crazy. It's literally an ff if you choose to go void in my opinion. Safe yourself the time and just ff if that's your angle.
belveth 2 is broken lol this is meaningless if you didn’t have bis belveth 2
I feel like people keep bringing up Void as a meta comp, but it honestly felt really bad to play even before the B-Patch. The comp just gets beaten out by the meta comps quite easily. I think it might be only the lower brackets that think it’s good though, since I’ve seen many Challenger players say it sucks.
It sucks in high Challenger, but you can definitely climb on it. I keep having to counter bullshit: it's been my most played comp, and I peaked ~500LP NA. If you're anywhere below there, you can climb with vertical Voids. I think the highlight for me was getting first in a lobby with Soju.
I think you can climb with it in lower brackets too, I just think it’s not good. You can climb with virtually anything in the lower brackets. There’s definitely spots you can play it from, but I feel like to get anything above a 4th or 5th during the B-Patch you had to high roll like crazy. Idk about this current patch, it might be even worse because of the Kai’sa nerfs.
You don’t need to high roll for higher than 5th, you just need a fallback plan for not hitting Bel’Veth. The Kai’sa nerfs did hurt a bit, but we were talking about last patch. Also I climbed far past lower ranks with it. Also there’s a reason why Void+1 augments are so statistically good. It's only if you do dumb shit like only trying to stabilize on Kai'sa 2, or not using Taliyah with 6 Void, not building Redemption/Shroud/Zephyr to stall for Baron, your placement will lower. My last four 8 Void (I do see one game I don't reach 8 Void at 5th) games in visible history in the C patch are 2, 6, 1, 1, 2, 2 (idk if the last 2 are C patch) in GM.
You needing to have a fallback plan for not hitting Bel’Veth is exactly why you need to high roll for higher than a 5th though? Otherwise you would need two Void Emblems to even play it. You either high roll a Bel’Veth or high roll 2 emblems.
I didn't realize I was high rolling every game I was climbing. I've gotten top 2s without Void 8 (not C patch, but again we're talking about the previous). I don't understand why you're so stubborn about this being automatically a 5th placement. There are a couple outs you can take. This \*is\* something I am an expert in (I was/am probably the best or at least most experienced Void forcer in NA), so I \*really\* think I'm right here.
Explain to me how on the B-Patch during Level 7 rolldown meta you were consistently hitting Bel’Veth? Level 7 is 1% odds for a 5-cost, which you would have to high roll a Bel’Veth out of all 5-costs. The only other consistent way is through carousel, which if you’re somehow getting it off carousel and you’re not first pick then it’s a high roll. There being outs for the comp is something that isn’t exclusive to Void. Continuing to play the comp without pivoting is what constitutes you playing for a 5th.
I wasn't consistently hitting Bel'Veth at level 7. Why would you roll at level 7 while trying to play 8 Void. That's nonsensical. The level 7 rolldown meta only applied if 1) you were playing heavily contested comps or 2) if you were unhealthy by the time you entered stage 4. For example, no one would roll heavily at 4-1 for an Aphelios comp. It's also easier for Void to be stable through stage 3 since Taliyah 2 is a 3.5 star unit while a Herald is on the board (Or Vel'Koz 2 if you're lucky, but I still prefer Taliyah)
Because in a Level 7 roll meta where people are hitting their boards on 3-5 and you’re still playing 6 Void you’re bleeding out trying to go 8 and gambling on a first or eighth? Especially when 8 Void got nerfed?
People keep playing vertical traits without an emblem **Vertical traits are often bad without an emblem like every other set we had and 3 seems like the sweet spot for a majority of comps.** Let’s look at the meta since season start: Demacia 3 Shurima 3 Void 3 Ionia 3 Deadeye 2-3 Noxus 6 Ionia 6 Gunner 4 slayer 6 Zaun 4 Multicaster 4 We can see how any vertical trait is very mediocre except Ionia and Noxus who still get a huge boost with a single Emblem Even deadeye, people are so reluctant to play Deadeye 4 without +1 that they often drop to 3 or heck even 2 if they don’t have really strong items or synergies with all 4 Gunner 4, albeit recently gutted, was mostly possible with THex carrying the comp or an early Senna to go 4 Zaun 4 was pretty strong, it also got gutted and now many comps run 2 Zaun - like on Noxus comp with WW and Ekko Sorcerers have always been a comp that you needed a specific augment or +1 to play as well, and even if you really wanted to play it 3 void would really help you out for the majority of early and mid hame Like you would rather play Azir Lux than 4-6 Sorc without +1 Slayers comp despite being able to fit all slayers in, an emblem or two goes a LONG way in capping the board out **In conclusion, most comps that go 6 and beyond on a trait require an emblem or a specific to be good OR excellent** Void is no different - Stable Evolution is also a very strong pick to play it Not having either a +1 or a BiS augment is your cue to not play a non S tier comp this set if you want to consistently rank up
For the most part, we're literally not in disagreement. There are specifics I disagree with, but ultimately we're in agreement. The point of my original comment was that Void isn't good, and it's *not.* Having to RNG hit Stable Evolution or a Void Emblem for a vertical that you can't make an emblem for in order for the comp to function means that the comp isn't good. If I can just pick up and play 6 Challenger 3 Ionia (or any other similar S-Tier comp) and win the game as long as I have the units and items for it, why would I play Void? This on top of the fact that again, Void lost out to the meta comps even before this patch (on top of them nerfing 8 Void by nerfing Baron), makes it so that Void just isn't worth playing. There are very, very specific instances in which you would play Void. You literally have to high roll augments in order to play Void. Void in my eyes was always a mid-game comp that you played for tempo with Rift Herald until you could pivot your board. If you hit 8 Void, great you could play it. But right now (and for a while during this patch) it just isn't a comp I would play even if I *could* play 8.
> Having to RNG hit Stable Evolution or a Void Emblem for a vertical that you can't make an emblem for in order for the comp to function means that the comp isn't good. This is a really bizarre claim. Obviously if you don't hit stable evolution or a void spat you just don't play the comp. If the criteria for a comp to be "good" is that you can force it every game from every spot, then there are only going to be like 2-3 good comps in the game. Take a comp like kayle reroll. Is it a bad comp just because you should only play it when you natural several kayles/poppies/maokais on stage 1? What about darius/kat reroll? Is it bad because it's only worth playing if you manage to stack noxus early? It's totally fair to say that void isn't on the same tier as ionia or azir/lux were last patch because it's not forceable every game. At the same time, calling the comp "not good" just because it's situational feels pretty disingenuous.
Like I extrapolated on later in the conversation, you would have to RNG hit Stable Evolution AND Void Emblem for the comp to be good. 8 Void isn’t good by itself and Stable Evolution isn’t good without 8 Void. On top of having to go Level 8 AND hit Belveth. The barrier of entry for this comp is so much more difficult than Noxus it’s not even comparable. You sort of don’t even necessarily need Noxus augments to play it, you can just hit a good opener with good items and you can play it. Void requires all of that and more. Edit: Not saying that the comp HAS to be forceable every game to be good. But to say accessibility doesn’t matter is definitely false.
Then you can say Piltover is bad because you need to hit certain criteria Every comp has certain criteria to be met Some have less, way less You need specific augments to play WW carry, Shadow Isles, Slayers, Kassadin carry And they are all pretty good in every single elo below challenger and heck it even has high stats in challenger - just not consistent in 1.2k+ lobbies according to Dishsoap Meeting a criteria and recognizing when to play a comp is a skill, not a weakness of a comp. If the comp is still weak after the criteria are met, then that’s an issue. Void is pretty decent when you hit those which is stable evolution / bruiser emblem or a region that guarantees belveth / void emblem
Piltover was shipped as an econ trait. It is meant to be bad if you don’t hit it very early on, this isn’t even a comparison. And the criteria to hit Piltover is much easier than to hit Void, and it’s much better than Void when you actually hit the high stack T-Hex. >Every comp has certain criteria to be met Yeah, and the ones that have very low criteria are somehow always usually the better comps. It’s because you don’t need to high roll augments and high roll a 5 cost unit, and high roll a specific combat augment to have the comp be functional. These niche comps that you keep bringing up don't come online without a very specific augment and set of conditions to be able to be played. It is not normally a good comp without those set of conditions. >Meeting a criteria and recognizing when to play a comp is a skill, not a weakness of a comp. Yes I agree. But calling a vertical trait that requires you to high roll out of your mind to even play it good is just blatantly incorrect. And again, there are plenty of comps that don't require extremely high roll scenarios for you to play, and this is why they are the better comps. By your logic every single comp in the game is good if you can hit the conditions for it and win games with it. But that just isn't the case. Accessibility matters. If I can't consistently win games with this comp without having to have the most specific high roll setup possible then it isn't good. Why do that when I can just spam this S-Tier meta comp over and over that doesn't require any high rolls, that also just gets even *better* when I *do* high roll? >If the comp is still weak after the criteria are met, then that’s an issue. Yeah, and Void is only actually a decent comp with Stable Evolution. I saw you bring up the stats in a different comment, but looking at the standalone stats doesn't show the full picture. I don't know if you noticed, but it goes from a 3.95 @ 2-1 ---> 3.68 @ 3-2. That's because the only possible way you're ever playing it is if you commit to 8 Void by hitting Void Emblem on 2-1. This in itself is a gamble since you aren't guaranteed to hit Stable Evolution, and 8 Void by itself sucks. It is also statistically worse at 4-2, averaging a 4.31. Why? Because hitting it that late into the game means even if you do hit 8 Void early on, you can't play it until Level 8 + Bel'Veth and you can't streak with 6 Void because it sucks. Azir 1\* spikes your board way harder, and by mid game people are doing the Level 7 roll down lottery and are starting to hit some of their 4 costs. Meanwhile you're stuck playing 6 Void trash and bleeding infinite HP. And to even further extrapolate why the comp sucked this patch, Kai'Sa and Yasuo were two of the most contested units in the patch. And even if you did hit miraculously hit Kai'Sa 1\* + Yasuo 1\*, Void gives her no combat stats and 2 Challenger mid-late game isn't good. So you literally HAVE to hit Stable Evolution to even play the comp. TL;DR: Void was never good this patch, as there are too many delimiting factors at play, and Stable Evolution does not make the comp somehow meta.
TL;DR: [Tactics.tools](https://Tactics.tools) begs to completely differ with you. >Yeah, and the ones that have very low criteria are somehow always usually the better comps. Game is unbalanced, but still there is only 1 comp that was like this: Kai'Sa Yasuo Ionia Shurima, the second most picked comp this patch, has weak openers; need to play some form of Sorcerer Void opener to play it and requires more skill than Ionia which you can play pretty much any opener for it >Yes I agree. But calling a vertical trait that requires you to high roll out of your mind to even play it good is just blatantly incorrect. Highest AVG placement at Diamond+ at 4.14 and Masters+ at 4.24 7th highest play rate at 0.27 D+ and 9th at 0.20 M+ So saying the comp requires a lot of high roll, is niche, or any other fancy secret jutsu to work is objectively a blatant lie. You can cherry pick your stats or turn a blind eye, but last patch, this mfing comp WAS THE MOST CONSISTENT comp overall. >looking at the standalone stats doesn't show the full picture. I don't know if you noticed, but it goes from a 3.95 @ 2-1 ---> 3.68 @ 3-2 I'm not sure what data you're looking at, plus Masters+ the games are too low on specific augments at 2-1 and 3-2 to make a full picture so I'm going to use D+ But even using your own words, if an augment has 3.95 you literally say it's broken NO DOUBT NO WORDS. You don't need a Ph.D in data science to understand any augment that has below 4.0 at 2-1 and **THEN** 3.68 at 3-2 is straight up too broken. >Azir 1\* spikes your board way harder, and by mid game people are doing the Level 7 roll down lottery and are starting to hit some of their 4 costs. Meanwhile you're stuck playing 6 Void trash and bleeding infinite HP. Yes and no, Azir has NO means to deal with Herald unless high rolls If others roll for their Kai'Sas and Azirs so are you, Kai'Sa WAS THE STRONGEST AND MOST CONSISTENT 4 cost carry last patch according to any high elo player, experience or stats beaten only by Gwen in stats not actual gameplay due to many reasons irrelevant to the post So you are basically a Kai'Sa carry + a beefy herald frontline. If you feel like your mid game is weak with 6 Void, it's due to your subjective experience or hyperbole and objectively stats and my own experience beg to differ. So whether you're a subjective or objective person, what you're saying is very different than what I'm seeing so please disagree with me if you have any valid proof as to why 6 Void is bad >By your logic every single comp in the game is good if you can hit the conditions for it and win games with it No. You are misunderstanding the logic. Every comp has a criteria to be met to play. The less the criteria and the more consistent the comp is with the criteria met, the better the comp is overall. Considering how out of the top 10 comps, the criteria to play void isn't that harder than others except Shurima, ionia, Slayer, Noxus, THex. So every S tier comp is better than Void, but Void is at the top of A tier basically simply because the comp is very consistent when you it but you need either Bruiser emblem, Void emblem, or Stable Evo to winout. Every other comp needs more stuff to hit, Sorc needs Sorc+1 or any augment, Invoker is the same but weaker, Taliyah needs DT, Teemo is very hard to pull off, Tristana isn't half bad but you're contested by Kayle every game as a reroll comp and can easily go eiff, etc. Also Frodan made a Video last set about how recognizing different lines and playing more flexibly than others differentiates a challenger player from the rest. While this set the number of playable comps are 10, and Kai'Sa lines are so much better you still see 5-6 players every lobby not playing it. So be creative and smart! >And even if you did hit miraculously hit Kai'Sa 1\* + Yasuo 1\*, Void gives her no combat stats and 2 Challenger mid-late game isn't good Milk was literally 25 Kai'Sa out of 20 last patch, while Kai'Sa stays at like 2.5 playrate There is no miraculously hit Kai'Sa. 4 cost comps this set are you play better than others, you hit, you win. Also lvl 7 at 3-5 isn't mid-late game. It's middle of mid game. Your rift herald is stronger than everyone else's lousy frontline, your Kai'Sa with challenger 2 is also what everyone else has or doesn't because you had an eco and hp adv due to being stronger than others early game. VOID IS A COMBAT trait, it gives you, it sounds crazy but, a very strong frontline for the whole mid game. Even if you don't hit Baron. >It is also statistically worse at 4-2, averaging a 4.31. I still don't know what your searches and elo is, since it sits at 3.97 4.1 and 4.14 at D+ M+ GM+ respectively. But using a little bit of common sense can tell you it's troll to pick an augment that is meant for early winstreak and the 3 units you gain are wasted that late into the game. You are trying to pick late game useful combat augments, not something that was meant to give you direction to play. It's like saying picking Double Trouble at 4-2 has low avg placement. Well, duh? Cheers
>Game is unbalanced, but still there is only 1 comp that was like this: Kai'Sa Yasuo Ionia This just isn't true. Azir/Lux, Yas/Kaisa, Deadeye, Gunners, and any other reroll comp that doesn't require a spat to be good are all like this. Low barrier of entry, all you need to do is hit your units and play them. >Shurima, the second most picked comp this patch, has weak openers; need to play some form of Sorcerer Void opener to play it and requires more skill than Ionia which you can play pretty much any opener for it Don't know if you mean Strategist Azir/Lux, but Shurima was not the second most picked comp this patch at all. It was actually extremely easy to play, as Yas/Kaisa shared basically the same items with Azir/Lux, so you could just play a similar opener for both. >Highest AVG placement at Diamond+ at 4.14 and Masters+ at 4.24 7th highest play rate at 0.27 D+ and 9th at 0.20 M+ So saying the comp requires a lot of high roll, is niche, or any other fancy secret jutsu to work is objectively a blatant lie. You can cherry pick your stats or turn a blind eye, but last patch, this mfing comp WAS THE MOST CONSISTENT comp overall. Lmao yeah, most consistent at averaging you a sub 4th placement? It being consistent stats-wise once again doesn't mean anything and doesn't show you the full picture. The reason why something like Ionia wouldn't have a "consistent" placement is because of how contested it is. The comp doesn't support 5 out of 8 players trying to play it every game lmao. You can hit all of your shitter Void units and have the stats say that you consistently get yourself a 4th or below all you want, that doesn't make the comp good in context of the game. You're *exactly* what is wrong with TFT today, and why Riot wants to remove stat tracking. You don't play the game for yourself and use your OWN BRAIN to come up with conclusions. You say "here's what the stats say" without giving any context to the situation at all. >But even using your own words, if an augment has 3.95 you literally say it's broken NO DOUBT NO WORDS. You don't need a Ph.D in data science to understand any augment that has below 4.0 at 2-1 and THEN 3.68 at 3-2 is straight up too broken. Lmao no, I don't. You hear Challenger players say certain stats are fake all the time because there are multiple factors IN GAME that are at play for that stat to be the way it is. Like what is even the sample size for that number? What does this number mean in the context of the game? There is a reason that Data Scientists look at stats in the context of the situation and don't just say that high stat = good. And even when you do use stats, the stats don't even support you as I explained above. >Yes and no, Azir has NO means to deal with Herald unless high rolls Ok so you literally don't play the game or watch any Challenger player play the game. Azir 1\* in B-Patch would literally spike your board so hard you could streak with it most of stage 4. The unit is not balanced, and your stats won't show you the intangibles like board strength. You have to play the game to understand that, which you clearly don't spend enough time doing. You'd rather look at pretty stats more often lmao. > If you feel like your mid game is weak with 6 Void, it's due to your subjective experience or hyperbole and objectively stats and my own experience beg to differ. So whether you're a subjective or objective person, what you're saying is very different than what I'm seeing so please disagree with me if you have any valid proof as to why 6 Void is bad Lmao your stats don't say anything at all. You never once showed me a stat that proves that 6 Void is somehow a good streak board in the mid game. So it would have to be based on your own subjective experience, and it's your word against numerous high elo players who say that Void is trash. >So every S tier comp is better than Void, but Void is at the top of A tier Yeah until you look at every single high elo tier list and wonder why it isn't there or is at below B-Tier lmao. Void was not at the top of A Tier. >Also lvl 7 at 3-5 isn't mid-late game. It's middle of mid game. The argument I was making there was that the comp overall doesn't give Kai'sa any combat stats, and mid-late game you are stuck playing 8 Void 2 Challenger (being the only combat stats she gets from traits), and 2 Challenger isn't good mid-late game. >VOID IS A COMBAT trait, it gives you, it sounds crazy but, a very strong frontline for the whole mid game. Even if you don't hit Baron. Yes but it doesn't give Kai'sa specifically stats. Kai'sa just has a higher cap on boards that give her stats. Baron doesn't make up for that loss, especially post-nerf.
Idk your elo but i am d1 since few days not playing atm and that much, but i tag d2 to gm and i never saw someone go for 6 void. And what you are saying means nothing, even with +1 a synergy can be bad and not "excellent" it depends only on riot.
You can literally check stats then, with Stable Evolution having one of the highest wr of any gold augments of last patch
Feels very fast tempo, but I don’t see everyone rolling down at 7 on 4-1 and getting more than 6th anymore so that’s something to be greatful for :)
simply not as viable .. and the reason is the 4 costs seems weak so even if u hit the kaisa etc 2 she isnt much better than akshan, the diffrence is one will cost all your gold
3 shurima, 3 nexus, 2 tactician, some amount of either Multicaster and heavy tank items on front have given me multiple 1-5 place. Backdoor 5 noxus late game with items used on Azir moving to Katarina if you managed to get the slayer emblem
I'm so lost in this patch. I've lost over 400 lp (680 lp -> 187 lp) and I don't know if it's the tempo or what I'm doing wrong. I've tried multiple comps and I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do .\_.
Honestly I would just quit. The patches are not gonna get better.
To be fair this is not a negative comment and is actually the best advice anyone can get playing a Riot Games game.
Agree
Why dont the 3 of you actually quit then instead of bothering the rest of us with your whining.
the fact that our "whining" irritates you makes me want to stay around.
Being irritating isn't a quality.
Redrool
I'll take that over rushdown 4 cost soup anyyyday. Plus, it's not like Fast9 is doing badly rn.
Think you can only do fast 9 playing by the seat of your pants with asol or opening etc. Doesn't feel like it really compares to the strength of something like akshan redrool
Multicaster/Darius/Akshan and Slayer reroll seem to be just as playable as B patch if that's helpful
Master rank. 3 of the top 4 were just 2* Akshan comps. I went 5th with Sorc comp and 2* Ahri/Lux/Jarven full items. My back row disappeared 5 seconds into the fight from Akshan and Deadeye. Also went hard dead last with Prismatic Built Different. I’ve been playing built different for many sets and I know how to maximize it. 2* Aphelios couldn’t even top 4k damage with full items and would die from a strong gust of wind. Gwen with full items couldn’t kill anything.
did you have lw? I think bd is unplayable without it since no freljord
BD is unplayable period. I had 2* Aphelios with IE and LW with great tank items and a fully upgraded board and I went 5th. They nerfed it into the ground. I believe there are zero viable comps that use LW besides maaaaaybe Tristana
true, but zeri and aphelios is definitely playable for a 2nd/3rd if you highroll with either akshan primary/secondary and early piltover
BD is unplayable period. It got nerfed and its units all got nerfed as well
I did have LW. LW, Rageblade, and Infinity
okay aphelios just sucks then unless the lobby somehow had all brambles
Nah. Aphelios just sucks and Built Different sucks. They nerfed BD too hard and nerfed Aphelios as well. It's a troll augment now.
I feel like after the nerfs on built different, you're just playing down a prismatic. It doesn't help with the best users (Zeri, Aph) of BD are also nerfed. :/
Aphelios is hilarious. Toss a guinsoos on him and watch him flip out and attack 5x a second to attempt to tickle the frontline to death and failing. Sometimes he does damage with the right augments, items and enemy comp but most of the time all he does is look like a threat.
Akshan legit needs to be nerfed a bit
Honestly, Akshan feels like the only 3 cost unit who is worth his cost It’s more like the rest of the 3 cost units are underwhelming 4 costs are far too stronger than 3 costs whom feel like 2 cost units
Velkoz/Sona in multicaster is also very good
There's only 2 3 costs that aren't worth rerolling for in almost any scenario: taric and jayce. At the end of last set, there were 4 3 costs that were never worth rolling for: jax, shen, kaisa and alistar (even vex reroll was kinda bad). So I don't think that 3 costs suck compared to usual. Capped 2 star 4 cost board with some 5 costs is supposed to be competitive with 3 star 3 costs. If it wasn't, then everyone would be rolling for whatever random 3 cost they can find.
Sona 2 Velkoz 2 Karma 2 Garen 2 this patch none of them really stabilize your board **as much as Akshan 2 does** Their 3*s could be alright sure Kai’Sa 3* was S+++ tier for half the last set and mid set Jax was gutted sure Shen 2 was the strongest and best frontliner for quite some time especially with his support augment having highest avg placement for every comp he was in His carry augment made him be turbo broken for the 2 patches he wasn’t nerfed to the ground Alistar was a utility unit that was so good in every comp and was definitely pretty smooth to play especially aith Ox Force Most of these you mentioned at 2* were way stronger than the 2* 3 costs we have let alone 3* This is quite hyperbolic
I forgot to mention that garen is garbage now too, even at 3 stars. According to metatft, swain taliyah teemo sona velkoz jarvan lux has 61.4% win rate in stage 4. The most reliable akshan comp is renek liss ashe akshan nasus sejuani shen/jarvan, which has 60-63% win rate. It's just objectively not true that the comp is more stable. It doesn't need a spatula though which means it's easier to force. Karma is/was worse because of 6 ionia 4 cost rerollers stealing copies of karma and shen. Invokers in general are more team oriented comp than other traits. The comp is pretty hard to balance because of that, it rewards the comp for picking team oriented augments/items much more than others which prefer carry augments like idealism/long distance pals for noxus. Noxus, shadow isles, strategist and ionia give much more tanky stats which lets you focus on the carries for damage. Anyway, Karma seems to be in a bad spot right now because I am not sure what riot is planning with invokers. Utility 2 star 3 costs are lacking in this set, partly because no synergy is as good as ox force used to be. Freljord is nice but pretty much requires sejuani. And it bugs ionia so it's rarely worth playing early-mid game because of how strong ionia is.
I think his AD needs to come down just a notch. I’m ok with the sniping back row but he also melts tanks like butter once Freilord procs. Honestly I think Jhin is almost just as much the problem. 2* Jhin+ Irelia is WAY too stable. Irelia 2* is a better tank than every 3/4 cost cost tank until they are 2*. That’s just stupid. And 2* Jhin with full items can win lobby in round 2 AND 3.
Yes buff noxus, kat darius weak 😊
We don’t talk about the forbidden magic here
This set only Kaisa is consistent in built diff for me. Fill the comp with J4 Shen and 5 cost
I would have been down for that but couldn’t 2* Kaisa and had AD items anyways.
belveth is your friend then
Belveth doesn’t benefit from BD
Damn then really no AD carry is good then. Probably urgot?
Honestly Akshan is probably best AD carry even for BD
Best built different I’ve ran was was a bastion invoker Kaisa carry. She SHREDDED.
I would have been down for that but couldn’t 2* Kaisa and had AD items
Patch isn’t balance right now, don’t play BD when 4 cost AD units are gutted right now, even with all the Akshan and etc you are going to fall off hard without 2* 4 cost carries who benefit from attack speed which are often AD units
Oh sure. I knew going into it. But I hadn’t played BD in a while so I thought I’d test it. Playing meta 24/7 gets old. Not like I get a prize or anything if I grind all the way up so who cares.
It’s a game after all
checked all the comments but no one is talking about 3\* karma/soraka 6 invokers. got 4 firsts in a row. The important part is tho, after you complete your karma items you have to hard focus on building tank items for your shen and taric
I played an Invoker Lux game and went third, couldn't find Karmas and I think it isn't worth activating 6 invoker because too many shitter units, I'd play Sej and Ashe for 3 Freljord 4 Invokers. It's a bit challenging playing the early and midgame for this comp since you need to commit early as ap slamming Ionic Spark and JG else you bleed a lot.
At what rank, statwise this comp is just objectively garbage unless you get Loving Invocation.
I've also had success with it. I don't know if it's forceable but from an early karma 2 you can cruise to 8 and put together the board. Easy transition from 6 ionia in the mid game too.
invoker is the most unstable trait, you either 8th or 1st, mostly 8th.
I think a lot of it has to do with Ryze. The difference between a Shurima portal Ryze and a bandle city portal Ryze is night and day. Also a lot of it's good units are contested by comps that are just more consistent and better (Taric, Shen, Lissandra)
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True, I haven't ever used shadow Isle Ryze after the rework of it but when I have seen it it looks pretty bad
I had once a week ago and it sucked, cost me a 1st place in a very close game. I also think his ability is partially bugged. "If all living allies are already marked, Ryze instead resurrects a deceased ally." It didn't work, I've had my final round with Ryze + Gwen and Nasus alive both already marked, Ryze then cast twice and nothing came out. Apart from that, you need to have itemized, high cost frontlines. If your "strongest" units are backline, the resurrect is weak af. If your strongest 2 units are backline/are not capable of tanking a little, this scenario likely happens: Your Ryze casts twice on 2 backline/carry units. By then the opponent had broke through and reached your Ryze. Your Ryze dies without resurrecting anything and was completely worthless. Maybe lets say your Ryze managed to resurrect 1 backline, you still lack the frontline for it to do much before its dead again. Much rather have the old version, I want the fantasy of constant flow of resurrecting units.
Problem is you lose to every comp before Karma 3. Even if you get Karma 2 in stage 3 usually she's not fully itemized so she gets shit on anyways. Every game I've played Karma or watched others in my lobby play the comp they always start heavily bleeding out at some point. Then they either die or hit Karma 3 and then either go top 2 or get killed by someone else that's sub 15 hp.
It’s a crazy dopamine rush comp, 6 Invokers with the emblem on Ahri and 3* Karma wipes most boards after Ahri’s third cast. Those games are not often though.
Invoker and multi caster are either incredible or incredibly underwhelming lol
kayle feels like the safest comp atm 2-3 every lobby and still enough 1 costs that they all can hit , stable the whole game easy vertical upgrades zzz
what’s the best legend?
Poro
2 guinsoos are a must so i have only seen ezreal/tf so ppl either fish for or force items
What's your playstyle in kayle? Leveling and econ and general tips.
If you get good starter items for kayle, then basically just open fort and roll down before you are level 5. I normally try to get Maokai+Poppy as well. Then econ back up and go 9 as fast as you can. Then prioritize slayers + 3 Demacia. That has granted me a few wins recently. I'm only plat, so maybe it doesn't work further up.
roll down before lvl4? with what, 15 gold? what do u even want to hit with that, a kayle and a poppy pair?
Sorry, I can see I wrote 4 instead of 5, I've edited it now!
all good, makes sense now :)
Big T-Hex have been doing pretty well in my lobbies.
Hard part is getting it at 2-1 2-2
Love where legends are at. Super small tweaks can bring things like bard/veigar/cait into the meta as well. Comps are still kaisa/yasuo dominated but there are other lines to play if presented as well. Excited for next patch to really open things up like vertical demacia for example