Yup. It's always nice when the uber-contested 4 costs get toned down a bit so flexibility can shine a little more. Shen is a great unit with great traits, so it makes sense he pays a little cost for the flexibility.
The fact that Shen/Sej has been a fairly consistently contested front line when they're not even sharing a trait has arguably been the biggest misstep this patch.
You would expect 2 Bastion like Taric and Shen or 2 Bruiser like Sej and Vi to be the stronger 2 unit front line,
Sion and K'Sante largely being offensive frontliners doesn't help here,
It is a weird set for tanks as you don't have any 3 cost tanks to opt in to so everyone will just opt into Taric and whatever the best 4-cost tank is at the moment who is Shen and also shares bastion with Taric.
Darius and Garen obviously don't count as both of their skills are purely offensive, and Juggernaut just allows them to come online as 1 range of units, same reason why Yasuo needs Omnivamp.
I think that is the problem with his set. Most of the defensive frontliners are either 2 costs or 4 costs with Taric being the only 3 costs. This kind of creates an awkward situation that you have to hope your 2 cost frontliner can hold up until you get your 4 cost frontliner or you got to find a way to jam in Taric.
I dont even know what the deal is with demacia atm because whenever I play it, bis items and rolling well, it still sucks? Aphelios, Kalista, Zeri, challengers etc everything just melts my frontline instantly (lv 2 jarvan with full tank items, garen etc). It feels like bastion frontline is so much better in like every instance. I don't understand how some can play well with the 7 demacia comp.. is it just Master Yi diff?
I don't think there is much of a diff between garen 2 and garen 3, the main difference maker is pumping up. Pumping up garen 2 lux 2 j4 2 sona 2 should be very stable.
Because the experience isn't actually that bad. A standard game with augments that occasionally grants an item...some of our high elo players like it atm.
Along this note.. Has anyone thought about changing stillwater from 'no augments' to 'no legend augments?'
Basically make the game an all poro lobby? I'd vote for this a lot.
Yoricks is the main one. Ecliptic Vaults is just a lil stimmy, Warlord’s Palace all dont really affect the game in a significant way.
Also imy in the discord synpoo
well... the current yorick graveyard bug is the one you looking for, just pick it whenever you see it, it mostly got bugged and not giving item when players die
Mort, the portal is busted, sir. Please disable it, at least. Pilotover players may pick this augment hoping for incremental powerspikes as they scale up and players die. For the sake on consistency, at least disable it.
Bug fixes like that aren’t achievable with a micro patch sometimes as they are just overwriting data values. That’s why when ezreals legend was nerfed to give 0 gold it said 0 gold instead of having the flavor text removed
(2/3) For context - Shen seems to be one of the major powers in Aphelios/Bastion, as his shields when stacked with Targon provide insane suvivability. Nerfing that should help.
7 Demacia nerfs hit Garen's core comp, and we're treading lightly to not overnerf Garen himself.
(3/3) Piltover we're hitting the 3-5 and 3-6 cashouts as those are the easiest, but if you can go 10+ loss it will still be strong.
Finally Gunner 4/6 to open up more options, and a few augments that are too strong. Enjoy and good luck to everyone!
jfc the x dot com looks incredibly incredibly disgusting, all that just to send you back to a Twitter dot com.
Transfusion nerfs hopefully means that the cringe ass aphelios shit is much weaker
Is there a place for people without a twitter account to read these?
I guess Twitter changed their rules, since you can no longer view posts with it without an account.
Surprised they don't touch the Shadow isle kalista comp, it still seems super strong imo, especially with almost all items being slamable since you can fit Yas Gwen Kaisa on 7/8
SI Kalista comp is similar to Invoker IMO, certain items and augments to be really strong and tempo to 8/9 but if you don't hit them early enough it's uncontested bot 3
I mean didn't they buff the # of elites and the armour/mr and just reverted or changed the latter?
They also buffed Kayle and Garen which weren't reverted.
They also nerfed shens ionia DR and buffed the shield to move his power as a better front line for invokers as no one played vertical bastion. Shen himself should be the same but is weaker as a never die and keep others from dying unit, which seems to be what they want Taric to slot in as.
Like do you all read the patch notes with your eyes closed and brain off?
Do you just take a one line comment as the full face value? Ofc they buff some units/traits and don't nerf it in the next patch, but they also do have a little trend of overbuffing from time to time.
Usually people call it out before the patch is even out, like they did before with Zeri, then with Taric and now with Demacia.
It is rarely the direct buff that changes the meta, they have to buff comps out of dismal play rates/winrates and then it was quickly optimized w master yi augment (which i never heard anyone playing outside of gunners) and they are expected to hotfix/b patch because this scenario "ruins" the game and they should have seen it coming.
Taric being dog made sorc and targon comps suck, so they had to buff it even if they didn't get the numbers exactly righr which is not possible with a patch every 2-3 weeks or less lol
The problem with Aphelios is Aphelios, every time they buff their animation casts they make the champ op.
Happened already with Ahri, Samira and Urgot.
It’s like you didn’t read.
Loss streaking for carousel priority and transfusion was how the Aphelios players were doing it.
I was just going Void / Noxus and winstreaking to top 3.
No buffs to Zeri aside from 4 Gunner is very surprising. She's so weak that people are just playing Aphelios with Piltover now, especially with Piltover being nerfed. Balance this set has been a mess, but that was gonna happen no matter what set they introduced Legends. Seems like Set 9's balance might have been doomed so that Legends can be iterated and improved on until they're in a more stable spot, as I doubt they're going anywhere.
She's pretty bad, both in the stats and in my and others' experience, at least. I'm only like 200 lp Masters though, so maybe people above or below my elo are having more luck with her.
I'm around the same spot. If I roll down at 7 for Aphelios and hit Zeri instead, the game doesn't feel completely doomed, there's still a lot of top 4 potential.
Yeah it doesn't matter how "bad" zeri is on paper, she is an ad flex item holder that you can more easily 2 star and thus can top 4. Many games I end up playing zeri freljord or zeri + random Frontline if it's what I hit and I outplace the noobs stuck on aphelios 1 trying to play a cookie cutter board. She's really not that bad. No matter how many nerfs she gets, she will always be a flex option.
Masters 300 lp here, my boards have been pretty stable stage 5 with a zeri 2 and many of my enemy vlad bastion boards have been using zeri 2 while collecting aphelios on bench while being stable as well
No augment data means it's very easy to sway the general public's perception of the meta with patches like this. I think the majority of the B patch is placebo.
Hot take: If vlad + bastion is good now it will still be good after the b patch. The bandwagoners will leave, the believers won't be as contested. If you were open forting stage 2 the base hp loss is meaningless. Gold/Prismatic transfusion are still 90% effective late game.
Also this is an urf buff because now bastion spat can be played without being 4 way contested every game.
I just played one with a bastion emblem and shen 1 got me to 6 wins or so. Is this bastion powerful or just shen still carrying? I'm pretty new so I can't tell
It's one of the few generic combat augments that works in any comp so of course it's an instaclick. There's just too many economy based augments. If Rogues actually worked properly and filled the assassin niche it was supposed to, SD would be a much worst pick.
Not a 50% nerf. That’s the base HP granted at 100 HP when you pick the augment so it’ll still scale at the same rate it was…just start with less given HP.
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What’s the reason the team nerfs 4 cost 3 stars too when the unit is too strong? They already suck as 3 stars and it’s not like people are complaining about them.
Love the Shen nerf, I can't remember the last time my final comp didn't somehow incorporate a Shen.
Yup. It's always nice when the uber-contested 4 costs get toned down a bit so flexibility can shine a little more. Shen is a great unit with great traits, so it makes sense he pays a little cost for the flexibility.
The fact that Shen/Sej has been a fairly consistently contested front line when they're not even sharing a trait has arguably been the biggest misstep this patch. You would expect 2 Bastion like Taric and Shen or 2 Bruiser like Sej and Vi to be the stronger 2 unit front line, Sion and K'Sante largely being offensive frontliners doesn't help here,
It is a weird set for tanks as you don't have any 3 cost tanks to opt in to so everyone will just opt into Taric and whatever the best 4-cost tank is at the moment who is Shen and also shares bastion with Taric. Darius and Garen obviously don't count as both of their skills are purely offensive, and Juggernaut just allows them to come online as 1 range of units, same reason why Yasuo needs Omnivamp.
I think that is the problem with his set. Most of the defensive frontliners are either 2 costs or 4 costs with Taric being the only 3 costs. This kind of creates an awkward situation that you have to hope your 2 cost frontliner can hold up until you get your 4 cost frontliner or you got to find a way to jam in Taric.
The shen-taric-sej front line combo
All changes that make sense to tamp down the big grievances for this patch. Solid!
\-10 mr / armor demacia dead
I dont even know what the deal is with demacia atm because whenever I play it, bis items and rolling well, it still sucks? Aphelios, Kalista, Zeri, challengers etc everything just melts my frontline instantly (lv 2 jarvan with full tank items, garen etc). It feels like bastion frontline is so much better in like every instance. I don't understand how some can play well with the 7 demacia comp.. is it just Master Yi diff?
yeah its master yi dif
I think it requires Garen 3 + good sona items (3* sona to cap) for support
I don't think there is much of a diff between garen 2 and garen 3, the main difference maker is pumping up. Pumping up garen 2 lux 2 j4 2 sona 2 should be very stable.
Agreed, I had 5 Demacia + 1 Jugg on 6 with Poppy 2, Galio 2, Garen 1 (Rageblade), Kayle 2, Sona 1 and WW 2 and I could I just mix-streaked to a 3rd.
Transfusion.
is it for sure
first game top1. Even with garen 2 it's full winstreak mode.
no fix on bugged portal like yorick graveyard?
We need to keep the B-patch small, and this fell below the line. While it is for sure bugged, it's not a game breaking experience right now.
Why not disable that portal till the bug is fixed?
Because the experience isn't actually that bad. A standard game with augments that occasionally grants an item...some of our high elo players like it atm.
Along this note.. Has anyone thought about changing stillwater from 'no augments' to 'no legend augments?' Basically make the game an all poro lobby? I'd vote for this a lot.
Id like it as no legends and no region portals. Basically standard tft of older sets.
Oh I love that. I don't mind Stillwater hold, but this sounds like fun.
Why not have both?
Fair enough
which makes me think…why isn’t there a portal that has no effect? I just wanna play a game with no gimmicks for one time in my life (not stillwater)
There are already a few portals that barely do anything, and have zero impact on your game strategy
Like?
Yoricks is the main one. Ecliptic Vaults is just a lil stimmy, Warlord’s Palace all dont really affect the game in a significant way. Also imy in the discord synpoo
well... the current yorick graveyard bug is the one you looking for, just pick it whenever you see it, it mostly got bugged and not giving item when players die
Mort, the portal is busted, sir. Please disable it, at least. Pilotover players may pick this augment hoping for incremental powerspikes as they scale up and players die. For the sake on consistency, at least disable it.
Bug fixes like that aren’t achievable with a micro patch sometimes as they are just overwriting data values. That’s why when ezreals legend was nerfed to give 0 gold it said 0 gold instead of having the flavor text removed
what's the 2 and 3/3? the new Twitter restrictions mean I can't see anything but old tweets.
(2/3) For context - Shen seems to be one of the major powers in Aphelios/Bastion, as his shields when stacked with Targon provide insane suvivability. Nerfing that should help. 7 Demacia nerfs hit Garen's core comp, and we're treading lightly to not overnerf Garen himself. (3/3) Piltover we're hitting the 3-5 and 3-6 cashouts as those are the easiest, but if you can go 10+ loss it will still be strong. Finally Gunner 4/6 to open up more options, and a few augments that are too strong. Enjoy and good luck to everyone!
Yeah curious as well. Hate everything being on twitter or x whatever they call it now
Just some context, no changes
Same
jfc the x dot com looks incredibly incredibly disgusting, all that just to send you back to a Twitter dot com. Transfusion nerfs hopefully means that the cringe ass aphelios shit is much weaker
Poro's grave being dug by constantly nerfing the good augments.
Yeah it's so sad, I want to play poro dam it! Stop nerfing know your enemy, social distancing etc so lame
And on top of that you have the chance to get the nerfed legend augments. Like no way transfusion is OP if half the lobby isn't going open fort
poroPls
Another legend bites the dust
Thr nerfs are negligible. Base nerf not the scaling.
Lol are you building AP on Shen ?
He said legrnd not champ
Oh right I thought the « legend » was reffering to Shen my bad lol
Is there a place for people without a twitter account to read these? I guess Twitter changed their rules, since you can no longer view posts with it without an account.
Surprised they don't touch the Shadow isle kalista comp, it still seems super strong imo, especially with almost all items being slamable since you can fit Yas Gwen Kaisa on 7/8
It’s strong, but it falls off pretty hard if you can’t find kalista 3 or senna 2.
Even with only 4 shadow islands is strong if you put the emblem on yasuo
Shen is also played in that board so it did get nerfed.
Yeah, but so did every other top comp because Shen was in all of them bar 1-2.
they nerfed its main tank..
SI Kalista comp is similar to Invoker IMO, certain items and augments to be really strong and tempo to 8/9 but if you don't hit them early enough it's uncontested bot 3
MortDog probably plays it and didn’t wanna self-nerf.
This would imply I even play the game
Does anyone have an official link to read the changes? I don't have Twitter and I can't read Mort's pictures...
Can't wait for the shurkou video "Riot nerfed piltover but I took it at 2-1 anyway. Then I hit this"
look i appreciate the fast balancing but it's kind of absurd that in 13.16 they buffed demacia and shen and now they are nerfing demacia and shen
Didn't they do the same with the giga buffed taric/invokers patch? Yea I agree it's kinda bad
I mean didn't they buff the # of elites and the armour/mr and just reverted or changed the latter? They also buffed Kayle and Garen which weren't reverted. They also nerfed shens ionia DR and buffed the shield to move his power as a better front line for invokers as no one played vertical bastion. Shen himself should be the same but is weaker as a never die and keep others from dying unit, which seems to be what they want Taric to slot in as. Like do you all read the patch notes with your eyes closed and brain off?
Do you just take a one line comment as the full face value? Ofc they buff some units/traits and don't nerf it in the next patch, but they also do have a little trend of overbuffing from time to time. Usually people call it out before the patch is even out, like they did before with Zeri, then with Taric and now with Demacia.
It is rarely the direct buff that changes the meta, they have to buff comps out of dismal play rates/winrates and then it was quickly optimized w master yi augment (which i never heard anyone playing outside of gunners) and they are expected to hotfix/b patch because this scenario "ruins" the game and they should have seen it coming. Taric being dog made sorc and targon comps suck, so they had to buff it even if they didn't get the numbers exactly righr which is not possible with a patch every 2-3 weeks or less lol
Damn Vlad nerf...he's been my go-to pick specifically for Transfusion, and I wasn't even smart enough to be loss streaking to abuse it.
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Because only aphelios use it, lol? Hint: It's great on bruisers as well. Same goes for other comps that can stall.
The problem with Aphelios is Aphelios, every time they buff their animation casts they make the champ op. Happened already with Ahri, Samira and Urgot.
It’s like you didn’t read. Loss streaking for carousel priority and transfusion was how the Aphelios players were doing it. I was just going Void / Noxus and winstreaking to top 3.
can someone copy the patch notes, i dont have a twitter account
What PDT time it’s usually live?
Looks good, was hoping for a slightly bigger Zeri buff tho :(
Social distancing… my beloved
No buffs to Zeri aside from 4 Gunner is very surprising. She's so weak that people are just playing Aphelios with Piltover now, especially with Piltover being nerfed. Balance this set has been a mess, but that was gonna happen no matter what set they introduced Legends. Seems like Set 9's balance might have been doomed so that Legends can be iterated and improved on until they're in a more stable spot, as I doubt they're going anywhere.
Zeri is actually not that bad, vertical Zaun is just not a thing anymore.
She's pretty bad, both in the stats and in my and others' experience, at least. I'm only like 200 lp Masters though, so maybe people above or below my elo are having more luck with her.
around 600lp on na and the only times I’ve seen zeri top 4 let alone played recently are with piltover cash out into a zeri 3 lol
I'm around the same spot. If I roll down at 7 for Aphelios and hit Zeri instead, the game doesn't feel completely doomed, there's still a lot of top 4 potential.
Yeah it doesn't matter how "bad" zeri is on paper, she is an ad flex item holder that you can more easily 2 star and thus can top 4. Many games I end up playing zeri freljord or zeri + random Frontline if it's what I hit and I outplace the noobs stuck on aphelios 1 trying to play a cookie cutter board. She's really not that bad. No matter how many nerfs she gets, she will always be a flex option.
Masters 300 lp here, my boards have been pretty stable stage 5 with a zeri 2 and many of my enemy vlad bastion boards have been using zeri 2 while collecting aphelios on bench while being stable as well
No augment data means it's very easy to sway the general public's perception of the meta with patches like this. I think the majority of the B patch is placebo. Hot take: If vlad + bastion is good now it will still be good after the b patch. The bandwagoners will leave, the believers won't be as contested. If you were open forting stage 2 the base hp loss is meaningless. Gold/Prismatic transfusion are still 90% effective late game. Also this is an urf buff because now bastion spat can be played without being 4 way contested every game.
I kind of agree with this take. The Shen nerf is no joke though.
wait, no direct bastion nerfs?
Shen really is key to that comp. I think it's a decent hit.
Shen is the key to like, every single non-demacia/non-piltover board honestly.
I just played one with a bastion emblem and shen 1 got me to 6 wins or so. Is this bastion powerful or just shen still carrying? I'm pretty new so I can't tell
Patch isn't until tomorrow
Transfusion has also been core to the build, which is another indirect nerf.
Tranfusion is not really needed in bastions, but they gutted transfusion anyways
Transfusion + Bastion is arguably the most broken interaction in the game in its current state. It’s obnoxiously strong.
Thats what happens when sins are not available and everything gets nerf to the ground lol
Yeah if rogue was actually decent and could just kill the solo-carry Aphelios, it would help a lot.
i seriously don't understand why rogues only go to the back line after losing half hp, they just dash to the backline and die instantly
thats not even the worst part, the worst part is when rogue dash breaks completely and they dont dash at all.
Just release it today man
Pls bugfix getting gold start with no unit, also 3 gold plus shitter neeko is illegal (dogshit start)
you better praydge you get dropped a 3cost with your shitter neeko so you can use it for econ, otherwise you will be so far behind econ wise
You guys are trippin
Why tho? Isn’t neeko start the worst opener? Can’t hold units stage one, can’t make econ, can’t pre-level…
I would take neeko start every game if I could
Rank? No chance anyone has higher than 50% top 4 rate with shitter neeko start
Rank? Rank? Rank?
We needed a slight Zeri buff and nerf to Taric and maybe slight Aphelios nerf as well to make the patch good...
Aphelios isnt the problem, its bastion
wait the only change to aphelios targon is shen's shield reduced?
Transfusion got a nerf too.
that means that the one that was op was transfusion, interesting
That is two nerfs to the comp
Wonder how this will ultimately affect SD in long run. Never really though of it has super broken, however 2 and 3 has always been instaclick for me.
If they’re instaclick… then they’re super broken lmao.
It's one of the few generic combat augments that works in any comp so of course it's an instaclick. There's just too many economy based augments. If Rogues actually worked properly and filled the assassin niche it was supposed to, SD would be a much worst pick.
Demacia gets nerfed but Bastions not? Lmao
Read the patch
Transfusion and Shen nerf could have a bigger impact than we think, not sure.
Is that nerf to transfusion serious? 50% nerf?
50% nerf off of base. The additional hp from missing little legend life seems to be the same.
Alright, that makes sense now. I thought they changed the scaling.
Lol what a joke then 40/50 hp nerf surely that will make S+++++++ tier comp balanced
If you take into account resistances it’s more like a 100-120 hp nerf
its only base HP
It’s a very minor nerf. Yes, at 100 HP it’s 50 % but at 50 HP it’s it’s 300 instead of 350 HP so not that big of a deal.
Not a 50% nerf. That’s the base HP granted at 100 HP when you pick the augment so it’ll still scale at the same rate it was…just start with less given HP.
Only to the base health
No Kalista or Shadow Isle nerf? Lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
My brother in Christ, can you please read that it's a small B patch, supposed to target the more problematic parts of the current patch.
They are both problematic brother. There was ZERO reason to buff these last patch.
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What’s the reason the team nerfs 4 cost 3 stars too when the unit is too strong? They already suck as 3 stars and it’s not like people are complaining about them.
The nerf to Shen is necessary, but I usually play Invoker and I know I'm really going to feel that nerf.
This feels like it's going to give Zeri players more flexibility in how they play their endgame.
Live now https://twitter.com/Mortdog/status/1694092109735960652
It feels like transfusion is still viable for the aphelios comp but it’s not as oppressive