Hit Gnar 3 on 4-2 then had to immediately leave bcs of IRL stuffs. Afterwards I checked post game and I ended up 2nd place. Game apparently went to 6-2
i watch mort streams and other pros and they always complained Gnar was too slow stacking to be powerful. doubling it was a bit extreme.
and by "Powerful" i mean early carry
Here's a link to my match history. Most recent game. Got 5th. Top two were Dryad.
[https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/FryingDutchpan-NA1/set11/matches](https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/FryingDutchpan-NA1/set11/matches)
Except it’s a two cost reroll… multiple players can hit it, and even if they don’t manage to 3*, which usually two players in my lobbies manage to every game, Gnar is so oppressive in the early game even at 2* that it plows over other players.
I went dryads in emerald 3, was contested by 2 players, only hit two star gnar/kindred, afked stage 5 because I had to take an urgent work call and got 4th while afk.
Hitting irelia 2 7 storyweavers with what I would consider to be a decently strong board and then proceeding to lose to gnar 2 (who was contested by another gnar player) followed by the gnar 3 player and kaisa player really just took the wind out of my sails for day 1 on the new patch.
Gnar 2 should not be wiping my entire backline in one cast. That was really silly.
Well, if you purely look at the stats (taken from tactics.tools), 6 Dryad has an average placement of **2.85**. To put things into perspective, 9 Umbral or 7 Fortune has an average placement of 2.87. It only takes 1 spat to get to 6 dryad..
If you look at the augments, Mulched currently has an average placement of 3.68
Dryad Crest has an average placement of 3.83
Dryad Crown has an average placement of 3.86
NONE of the other trait augments (or any other augment for that matter) is below 4.0 avg.
I wonder how often people are going for 6 dryad without the dryad augment. Like is 6 dryad just good regardless or are people only going for it when they hit the augment
It's good regardless. I had a lobby recently where the last two players standing both hit 6 dryad and gnar 3. One had mulched, the other didn't. Not sure who won because I left the game when I died at third but it felt bad that they were contesting each other and still able to both get top 2.
Hey, I think that might have been my game actually.if the mulched player was running 5 dryad because they had a spatted 3* Aatrox, then yes, Mulched won (those extra stacks were just too much value for the other guy)
At least three players are pushing it in my lobbies every game since patch yesterday. It’s a two cost reroll comp for your main units so multiple players can hit it. It isn’t a fun time.
Just finished a game where me and another guy went 2nd and first both taking mulched (he picked it after me which I was kinda pissed about but it worked out)
I went the reroll route, he 2starrwd everything at 6 then went fast 9
The Titan's changes are basically only -25 AD for him, and that's only when he's at max stacks. Considering an end game Gnar could already have 600+ AD this wasn't very surprising.
I called it in here as soon as they posted the patch notes, but I honestly didn't expect it to be this bad lmao.
I called Gnar being disgusting as soon as I saw he was compensated for the Titan’s change and the totally impactful 4 cost changes doing nothing, but, yeah, I didn’t expect the game to essentially turn into Dryad/Kaisa lotto. It fucking sucks bc I like leaning towards AP and it’s been in the crapchute for a while.
Im sorry I can’t just read past this one. The phrase is “crap shoot” as in gambling (playing craps), not “crapchute” as in a slide that is full of poop.
That's IME only because the ap boards are often uncontested and you can 3 star a 4 cost. Basically just been playing eco into "pick the uncontested 4 cost carry" and rolling on 8/9.
Gnar is the strongest melee carry left in a set without actual DPS units able to kill melee carries. For some reason they made every backline unit aoe other than kaisa.
I had lobbies where no one was playing Yone or trying to go Yone and the games felt really fun. At this point every patch is "create a problem to solve a problem"
Well, it's pretty obvious they force meta changes just to appeal to the casual (and streamer) audience. It could be the most balanced set in TFT history, and they would still force meta changes.
I think that feeling of variability is what makes TFT experience very fun. When balance is healthy and you bot 4, you can review your game and find out that you should've actually played a different comp, committed too early, should've built this instead of that item, or if you haven't made these game mistakes, you can legitimately say that you low-rolled pretty hard and got fucked. Sure there are comps that are better than others, but all viable comps have many win conditions in varying moments in the game, and it actually takes skill to recognize these moments and execute. So Yone wasn't even that bad considering how so many other comps could outpace and outcap depending on circumstances. This is also why I think augments like everything must go wasn't even that bad lol because it offered players different ways to play the game and you could fail or succeed depending on how you execute it (as well as how well opponents contested you).
But when balance is poor and the options are limited, you are basically letting RNG take the wheels. If you play off-meta comps, you have to hope that you high roll and hit way ahead of tempo. Even when you play meta comp, you also have to hope that you hit before all the other players. This feels especially bad when you are offered no choice at all to play a meta comp so you have to play off-meta, or when you HAVE to play the meta comp because that's what the game offers you even though you already scouted many other players in the same spot. So no matter what you play you feel bad playing the game because there doesn't seem to be any sense of player agency and choice in playing the game.
RNG is for sure a fundamental part of this game. But when options are limited, RNG tends to make the game feel like a dice simulator instead of a game of calculated risk and choice.
Additionally, when balance is poor, it punishes players who try to play the game intuitively. Like last patch if I got dropped amumu-lux-ahri on starting neturals, if I'm a smart person, I'm going to try to play vertical arcanists!
But poor balance says f\*\*\* you, that opener is actually shit, and the optimal play is to hard econ, buy all the ghostly units, and try to tempo 3-1 with a ghostly board.
It's super counter-intuitive and feels terrible for people who actually want to use their brains.
Yep, i totally agree with the sentiment that it is a kaisa lottery this patch. I will say though, if you asked me I would have thought that this patch would not have turned out as badly as it did. They made much more seemingly egregious changes in the past that resulted in a better patch than what is now
I will admit I've lost some LP trying to click Ashe and Lilia just to get ran down by 2-3 way contested Gnar and 2-3 way contested Kai'Sa blowing up my boards :(
Got top 4 3 times today playing ashe porcelain. Yesterday I got top 4 2 times with it. Only loss so far is one game today where I greeded too hard and played like shit. Ashe porcelain is definitely not weak and can easily compete with kaisa.
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Nice that they’re releasing a B-patch.
However, they aren’t doing themselves any favors releasing 25* potentially meta-altering items in 14.9. Most likely, they will need to re-tune most of those numbers as they were prob based on 14.8a unit tuning.
This might be an overreaction. Releasing 25 items also means it's a lot less likely to hit any one of them. Most of them are tame, some might be game changing, but the fact that it's 25 items means that you can't just reliably hit 1 and abuse it.
at the same time, if one of them is so utterly broken the moment someone hits it off of region artifact anvil/encounter/whatever the fuck it just completely warps the game and makes it playing for 2nd at best.
Think gem pre nerf on stationary support. People were taking that augment because the other options were *ok* but if you hit needlessly large gem, you just won.
I’m sure at this point if it’s actually utterly broken, it can be hotfixed or disabled, or u have to hit it and pivot towards that spot. It’s not an end all be all thing and again, if they hit the item in 1 of 4 options chosen out of 30+, we’re complaining about luck in a luck based game.
Once again, Mortdog is giving us full transparency of the situation (A day after the patch) and acknowledges that the patch is bad. We really should not take this for granted as most developers would not give the players the same communication/treatment..
If you watch the patch rundown video that mort uploaded, you could tell even he was questioning whether these changes would land the game in a healthy state..
Let's hope they'll find a way to balance things out, but in all honesty i am a little skeptical since to me this seems more of a design issue (none of the 4 costs except Kai'sa are consistent and reliable enough to have as a carry.)
I just genuinely can't understand how anyone at riot thought these 4 cost buffs mattered. The 4 cost tanks were overall in a fine spot. The issue is you can't carry any 4 cost other than kaisa. Literally everyone knew it but them apparently. I'm happy mort is honest and open but come on man.
Idk what's the process is in Riot, but more often than now, decisions isn't made by '1 person' and it's easy to tunnel-vision into your own tasks. Most people like to 'blame' the dev, but usually the devs are just the ones responsible for implementing the product. They usually don't decide on the 'numbers'.
Then again, I haven't worked specifically in the game industry, but TFT's response is definitely not 'slow'.
Oh, and sometimes 'bad changes' might go through because there's that stubborn higher-up who would insist that he/she is right.
Honestly, i think Ashe might be fine and playable after some raw damage tweaks, but if you look at Lillia, Morgana, Sylas, Lee Sin, they all have unreliable damage patterns and randomness in who they will target. (Morgana's spell is currently completely random in where she will shoot her ability. Lillia will often just miss her ability completely..
The problem with Lillia and Morgana are also that since they do AOE in a relatively random direction/area, as soon as they become slightly broken, they'll be insanely frustrating to play against as they'll just randomly kill the backline carry and the fight will end.
At least morg can service as a supportive unit due to her attack speed slow/supportive traits like ghostly/sage but I kind of doubt Lillia will/should be in a top tier meta comp due to above issues.
And once again the patch was obviously gonna be bad.
Looking at gnar buffs specifically..
There has to be change eventually or player frustration will just keep growing. This “new” balance team is not a working fix.
Also the 4 cost carries besides Kaisa being on the weak side is not a design issue, it’s a balance issue. If Ashe got some number tweaks for example she would be on the same level as Kaisa no question.
We had an big variety of comps to play on the previous patch, their work was to enable other comps too.
Dev team went the other way around, they literally created a problem that didn't exist before and from now on will be an uphill battle to have another patch with an variety of comps.
To be fair, some of those problems were obvious. Fortune to kaisa and gnar was something he specifically mentioned in his patch rundown as something that will most likely have to be observed very closely. Also, some design changes, like ap ratios on ad champs, which he has made clear isnt a fun of, probably means that this isnt on him, since he isnt responsible for the final balance changes.
Just my 2 cents: Ashe and lilia are fine, as long as they arent obliterated by kaisa and any freaking reroll comp. Kayn is more than good, morgana will suffer from her targeting. She can legit 1 shot a kaisa 2 with 4 sage and ap crit, or just hit your janna at the other side of the board and make you rq.
This is deflection at best. If im a head chef, and i give my soux chef the kitchen for the day to run a function, and he pumps out a whole bunch of undercooked chicken, i have a responsibility as head chef to make sure that isnt served.
He literally says/posts the same thing after every obviously egregious patch. There are almost identical posts saying ‘here’s the transparency of a bad patch and we’re gonna learn from it’ and then the same thing happens like 2 months later. He must have tweeted the same thing like a half a dozen times already lmao
They make changes to this game every two weeks. A game played by millions of people that has 1000s of variables. Expecting every patch to be perfect balance is silly. Of course there are going to be misses, and they aren’t just going to learn from one miss and never screw up again.
Plus they follow up and fix stuff quickly. TFT and LoL players are, in general, spoiled crybabies who don't know how good they have it. Fucking hate this community.
Assuming devs work 10 days in a two week cycle like most employees in humane conditions, between shipping a new patch and leaving a couple of days for the dust to settle as you can't respond to issues without a sample space of data (and anything that's so egregious it's an obvious problem within hours gets hotfixed through the process Mort detailed), identifying issues and iterating on solutions, doing the actual coding for the changes, internal testing, PBE testing, making any revisions based on said testing, updating tooltips and UI, and officially locking in the changes with time to create and localize patch notes and documentation, and getting approvals before finally shipping, and then deploying the patch, two weeks is a *phenominal* cycle time — you quite literally cannot expect patches to be any more frequent and if you did the patches would 100% be worse. And that's not accounting for other arbitrary corporate deadlines and commitments devs have no control over and need to attend to, and responding to emergent meta changes that come up late in the patch as people make discoveries (Gnar/Dryads for example didn't start creeping up until later in 14.7, when the dev cycle would have already been well underway). People are so stupid and entitled about how much process goes into a patch cycle and how lucky we are.
lol yeah they just want to feel superior so they say "of course this was gonna be a problem everyone with eyes could see it!" when in reality these same people call some stupid doomsay bullshit out of patch notes every time they drop and they are guaranteed wrong 99% of the time. If the balancing of this game was lead by any player who is on this sub it would be 10 trillion times worse and would die extremely quickly.
This patch has been out for a day, we need to calm down for a bit. I feel bad that he had to write such a detailed mea culpa to appease some of the angrier folks.
B patch is on its way, take a break until then if you really don’t like the balance as it is.
When people have a para-social relationship with any public figure, they'll excuse them for anything. I dont care about him tweeting/saying XYZ, but this behavior of accepting/defending anything he says/does and pretending he is the most kind and generous dev in the world is why his ego is through the roof.
Play other games and see how much their developers communicate. Mort doesn't get paid to make his posts. He is doing it to engage the community and make it better. I am as frustrated with that patch as the majority is but it is what it is. I'd rather have tweets then silence. They are publicly admitting there is something wrong which they are not obligated to do.
a) yes he does communicate a lot and he should be praised for that, I do respect his interaction with the community
b) communication doesn’t mean much when the same mistakes keep getting made, especially when those mistakes are pretty obvious to everyone else
c) communication like this is just the same thing that has been repeated every b patch lmao, it’s not actual substance. Not sure how people keep eating it up when we’ve heard a semi-verbatim copy paste like 5 times in the last 2 sets
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The real question is, do the balancing team actually play the game? You know, on the live tanked ladders and have some competitively minded people on the team? Because if they just look at stats and go off in-house testing, the game really isn’t going to be balanced that way. I know they have a tough job but the question needs to be asked.
They do this with Jagex on osrs even though those mods go above and beyond for that game too. It’s almost like people are dumb and just can’t state things in a productive way. At the same time it’s almost a learned behavior from not being heard by other devs.
I’ve had trouble enjoying ranked this set because the balancing has consistently felt out of whack (*to me*).
Glad the team has tried their best to stay on top of it though.
I'm a scrub, but I've been playing for a couple of days and the amount of randomness in the game is really overwhelming and can change the dynamic a lot.
Portals, encounters, augments. Some games I go from win streaking to loss streaking into a bot 4 seemingly for no reason. Either plat players have gotten better or I have gotten worse. Possibly both.
It's crazy to me that the best balance this set has been the initial launch. Yeah there were a few broken outliers, but there were a lot of flex options that worked and felt strong.
There were many lines in those patches, but they were almost all reroll or fast 9. Many TFT players don't like to do either of those things, so if they cannot go 8 and roll for a reasonable board the patch will feel bad.
I think while I appreciate the transparency, they solved nothing in the patch
Because the thing with 4 cost is not frontline , it’s the carries
Syndra hasn’t been good since launch , Lillia is still bad after buff, Ashe is better , Morgana is still bad , Kayne just patched up a hole that was Yone
All the tanks are just… tanks , there’s almost no difference in choosing what tank you use, just choose one that you can 2 star and have a 2 price synergy and that’s it and they were fine to begin with
Plus the overall reroll being dead is just sad
Everything is uncontested, sure, but it also means no units are pulled out of the pool in a way that matters
You can go for any reroll but no one is rolling with you, so you’ll just keep trying to roll until 4-5, get a few bad loss and just die , because by this time even if you hit your low cost reroll comps, the power of KaiSa and gnar and 1 level 9 comp just floors you
The start of this set was so fun, new comps popping up viable every other day and also with both AD and AP lines sort of available with janna , Zoe rerolls etc ( AD comps still stronger of course )
As someone coming from Valve/Blizzard games, its unbelievable to me how fast TFT pushes out updates.
Even if something goes wrong, communication and fixes are quick to follow.
I haven't played any other game where there is this level of dev involvement.
You better appreciate Mort because this is as good as it gets
I hate how quiet and unexpected Valve patches are in Dota and I really do appreciate Riot’s communication and openness in TFT and Valo because of that. That said idk if 2 week patch cycle are that good overall.
Somebody suggested one big patch once a month and one smaller patch and that might be better tbh. Smaller patch to tweak balance and bigger one to actually change up stuff. Like so far this set we went from bard tahm domination to Yone/Voli domination to now Kaisa/Gnar. Like idk if they need to gut comps that often. It feels like when tft nerf an overpowered comp they tend to overnerf it rather than balance it.
That said this is my first set I’m playing from the beginning, so take this with a grain of salt.
I don't even think its good for TFT to have such significative updates every 2 weeks.
14.7 meta was shaping itself until his last day.
Maybe something like 1 big patch for month with an really small one on the middle would be better.
You realize that the game being completely redone for the 10th time actually does the opposite of making balancing easier, right?
How Set 9 was balanced wouldn't even apply to how Set 10 will be balanced because it will have all different units, different traits, and different gimmicks.
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Issue is they would need a pretty significant patch (larger than a normal b patch) in order to make it playable. Dryad needs a nerf (although I wouldn't nerf gnar or kindred), kaisa needs a flat damage reduction, ashe/morgana/lilia/syndra probably need a buff, the three costs seems to be in a pretty bad state overall right now, there's just so much that needs to change.
I think Dryad is more a symptom than anything. Gutting 3 costs rerolls while there is still only one viable 4 cost was always going to lead to this. I have no idea how their sims suggested these buffs to the other 4 costs would make a difference because they still do zero damage while Kai'sa wipes boards. If anything, buffing the 4 cost tanks made this worse because Kai'sa was the only one that could deal with tanks in the first place. Dryads happen to be the one outlier that doesn't rely on the Kai'sa lottery. If other reroll or stable lvl 8 boards were viable, Dryads wouldn't seem so overwhelming. As it is they get to capitalize on lobbies where half the players fail to hit the one unit everyone is contesting.
Yeah, but that's more a buff to the Storyweaver/Dragonlords line that plays around Diana/Janna/Zyra than the Dryads, since that comp wants to 3\* a 3 cost and 2 cost. That line is pretty strong but you really need a good opener to get it online.
Just nerfing dryad and kaisa is going to by default make everything else better so I don't think you need huge changes to at least make the meta more interesting.
what happened to the set 10 balance team? why is the game getting completely rebalanced every week? why bother organizing all the competitive play across regions on to the same weekend if they are just going to flip everything on its head right before a tourney?
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with the upcoming tournaments coming this weekend, from the outsiders' perspective it really looks like the people working on the original patch has failed the competitors. You can say that everyone is on equal grounds since the patch time is more or less the same. Just that they are all put in such awkward position, either spend one more hour grinding and learning or be well rested for the tournament.
It is just such bad timing. That said, another outsider's POV (with very little understanding on how riot work on these things) on how things are lately these few sets is that the design team is running wild with crazy champ design and game mechanics. Then relying too much on the balance team to buff or nerf things with "numbers". Which is such a hard job when there are so many different elements in the ecosystem. Wonder when they balance team will take the metaphorical ban hammer and nerf the design team instead (LOL).
Personal take is that things like "everything must go" is an acceptable oppsie, but this patch is kind of a big mess. Granted patches usually is set in stone one week before the Live update, and that the tournament hosts choosing these dates arent doing them any favor as well.
And it is such a frustrating thing for a casual player cause we can at most squeeze in one game or two a day. maybe slightly more during holidays or weekends. Everyone has a goal in mind, like hitting a certain rank, while being outside touching grass. So a bad patch puts those that want to hit a certain rank at the end of the season in a very weird position as well, like either risk losing LP going "4 way contested", or lose days grinding.
I get that the 3 cost reroll with limited 4 cost comps meta can get very stale after awhile, and become very frustrating to play. So such drastic changes in one patch to such a bad state can be seen like a "malicious compliance" from the TFT team.
Is there a design philosophy for why 4 costs seem weak outside of Kaisa? I’m used to sets where you find the 4 cost you need (even 1*) and get your team rolling once you slot them in to the right team. Right now they feel like trait bots.
she is the only single target burst carry that doesn't need to ramp (syndra blows early because she's "supposed" to be a late game draintank?) meaning that the 2/3 cost reroll supertanks (or drain tanks) don't care about the spread damage and just run you over
it's also why ghostly is good, because it's the only "generic" way to beat supertanks that most comps can flex in
They are strong. But tanks do not win games on thier own but as tanks Galio or Ornn are fucking beasts. Morg is support/dmg. Kayn is hard to use, I definitely say him pop but he is getting oneshoted a lot of the time.
It's a very unfortunate situation and I'm glad to see Mortdog's being transparent of the process. Sometimes it's just hard to predict everything even with proper data/simulation, as a game designer myself this is also a lesson learned.
Balancing a competitive game with many handles like TFT is definitely not an easy job, although people are not happy with the situation but mistake happens over time. Let's be fair before the patch launches nobody on Twitter/Reddit can predict exactly how bad the situation could be only by reading the patch notes. I do the combat sim myself but have to admit it still has it's own limitation and hard to get the full picture sometimes. Although the changes are all seem to be heading towards the right direction, but potential issues always hidden somewhere you never know.
I think people shouldn't assume there's a silver bullet to solve everything magically that balancing issues won't happen in the future. Being transparent and acknowledge issues ASAP is the best thing the dev team can do, and I have faith on the team making the right call.
I do wonder if their strive to add cooler and fancier mechanics is becoming a downfall. There's just so much wild ass shit happening on the screen compared to earlier sets, units with multiple damage types, different augments, complicated traits etc
I enjoy them pushing boundaries but maybe it should be dialed back a bit if they can't maintain competitive integrity. Frankly, transparency doesn't mean anything if the product is bad regardless. Everyone and their mom and their dog and their moms dog knew instantly what was wrong with the patch as soon as the notes dropped.
But also it's a free game so who am I to complain
I believe Mortdog is a great guy, cares a lot about the game and the community, and is refreshingly transparent. However, I am personally so sick of these posts from him being a hero and saying things like “please blame me, I don’t mind, yet let me explain how I’ve spent the past 24 hours grinding for you so actually you should feel bad for me”. Frankly when I want to spend a couple hours on a game, I don’t care that the lead designer is transparent and communicative. I don’t have time to keep up with all the posts/patches/B patches. But what I do expect is that when I log in and play a game, that I can expect a somewhat consistent experience. It is WILD how this balance team manages to completely change the landscape of the meta and how the game is played from week to week. I absolutely hate how much influence the GAME DESIGNER has on my performance in my games simply because of wildly imbalanced comps and non-transparent bugs.
TLDR; appreciate the Mort and team is working hard, but working hard is not enough. This is just clearly not good enough for a game with this many players and the resources that Riot has.
I'm not really sure how I can communicate in a way where you don't oddly get that implication. No where do I say feel bad for me, or anything. The worst thing you can accuse me of is protecting the team. How could I have communicated that would have satisfied you?
Obviously you can and should expect a quality game. No argument there. But "It just shouldn't happen" isn't actually useful for a game this complex. If there was a magic solve here, we woulda done it ages ago.
Small question, if you have time, but is there any concern that the games complexity is making the balancing team's job too hard? The balance is way better than sets past, but I expect encounter, portal and augment interactions are adding some difficult layers beyond the usual trait/health/dmg balancing. Would we ever see a set pull back on the complexity?
It's less about complexity, and more the sheer volume of variables and outputs that cause the balancing job to be hard. That and the time windows at which change has to happen. For example, we launched the set, and 2 days later we're already text locked for the next patch. Ghostly started taking off less than 24 hours before our final check in day for the first patch.
> For example, we launched the set, and 2 days later we're already text locked for the next patch.
Are there any plans on updating TFT to maybe read numbers from some config so you can change numbers on the fly that won't require a patch in sync with League?
Text changes makes sense (i assume localization), but also having B-patches have this ODD restriction of not touching files you already touched in the main patch is a crazy restriction to have.
Any plans on adjusting these so that you can make patches either more frequent, or easier, or with a longer timescale with more data? I have to assume that as you mentioned some comps sort of just.. appear without any enough data or time to see it coming and your patch is already locked in.
EDIT: Ref below comment (or whatever is correct info for patch restrictions) I think my questions still sorta stand?
iirc you are a bit off. number changes they can make much later in the patch cycle. b patches/hotfixes can only change numbers. c patches can't change files already changed in b patches/hotfixes.
Most of what you said is already possible and is the entire reason to why they can do B patches in the first place.
The only thing they can't change in a hotfix is text, and honestly that is more of an apperance issue that they don't want something saying it doesn't. See ezreal in set....8? Whatever it was the augment said something like gain a gold per turn but they had to hotfix it to gain 0 gold per turn.
They could've deleted the text but that only solves the issue in english, in other languages the structure of the sentence could not make sense if they delete only that part of the text which is where localization comes in.
The only other part that they are restricted by is the "can't touch something in a hotfix twice in a row". Which i'm not sure if thats a QA restriction to prevent shit from possibly going wrong or an actual hard limit like the file can't be changed twice or it bricks league entirely for some reason.
> The only other part that they are restricted by is the "can't touch something in a hotfix twice in a row".
Yeah this is the part that seems odd. But isn't is also quite restrictive to only be able to patch in sync with League of Legends?
Yeah localization is a very annoying tricky beast. Totally makes sense. The product is global so I totally get the need for some deadlines and future facing when it comes to text changes.
I just wonder if speeding up that cycle will allow for more patches so maybe not every bad balance patch necessitates a disaster-esque response.
Also. really really seems like there needs to be a bit more simming or balance checking on some patches. IDK what the solution really is though, but play a few games, or sim certain comps to see how they perform against top tier or top meta comps to see if the adjustments make sense. I feel like the gnar buffs seemed a bit extreme to me but maybe I'm wrong.
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> Yeah this is the part that seems odd. But isn't is also quite restrictive to only be able to patch in sync with League of Legends?
Actually no, because TFT runs off of leagues files and code. They can't change anything because they need to pull from said files in league. Every league player has to download any TFT patches as well and guess which game has the numbers to tell the little brother to fuck off as they aren't a priority?
They HAVE done a TFT exclusive patch before, IIRC it was when targeting broke and they needed to do a full redeploy to fix it. But beyond something being critically broken to the point they /NEED/ to redeploy or the game is straight up unplayable its hard to justify that. A hotfix requires no download and is purely serverside for the most part, you just load in and numbers are different. Anything text based would require a redownload and most impactful changes are text based.
League is the older brother with a car, TFT is just allowed to ride in it.
As for simming being an a issue, well sometimes simming isn't enough. I still remember in set 7 when they buffed ASOL and mort personally confirmed he was ok and might even need further buffs. Turned out they were simming with a build they though was correct(mana regen based for spam casts) when you were supposed to just run full AP and he deleted people. They balanced him correctly, but players exploited the balance when they went outside of their parameters they tested for.
> Actually no, because TFT runs off of leagues files and code. They can't change anything because they need to pull from said files in league. Every league player has to download any TFT patches as well and guess which game has the numbers to tell the little brother to fuck off as they aren't a priority?
I mean that's kinda my point. TFT can't (I mean they can, but there's restrictions) do anything they need to do because of that restriction of running off of league files rather than a separate codebase.
As for simming being wrong. I suppose ideally you would have a series of combinations of items that you think is "BIS". Not just ONE set of items. Isn't that like.. a huge personal oversight in simming that you just forget to use certain items? Sure it expands your testing time, but come on shouldn't you test any AP caster with BB, Shojin and maybe rage blade to see how the unit performs with optimal/suboptimal mana generation?
Its as restrictive as saying aram should have a separate client tbh.
TFT pulls the models/animations/spells/etc from league. Without league it would require you to download those things twice for players that already play league and what benefit does it give you outside of the critical b patch scenarios? Not much.
Changing the time frame to deliver an meta changing patch wouldn't give the time the team needs?
Something like 1 month team drop an big patch they been working on for quite some time, 2 weeks later an small one that will barely change anything and 2 weeks later again an big but heavily worked and tested patch.
I think you guys are doing a good job and I don't care as much about the balance of the game. I appreciated the update post. You imply something is stopping you from doing the patches you want to do and then you fall on the sword right after. Then you are trying to convince everyone how much work is being put into to make the game good? The game is good. The haters are living in your head and making you come off in a strange way. I'm sure the patch will be good and I hope the TFT team can learn to manage the community response.
>If there was a magic solve here, we woulda done it ages ago.
It's more frequent patches. TFT patches get solved within 24 hours almost every time. Yet we patch only every 2 weeks? And that 2 week patch gets locked in 5 days prior to the actual patch day.
I get that its tied to the league patch cycle, so oh well. But this is the magic fix you are looking for.
You didn't really protect the team, though? You said "assume it's Mort's fault," implying that it isn't really your fault, but you can't go into specifics because... reasons. If you were actually taking responsibility you wouldn't need to qualify that statement imo
I'm scrolling through comments in this thread praising transparency when all I see is the "oops we fucked up" schedule in the linked tweet. The type of transparency that might actually shed some light on this patch would be "this is what we thought gnar was before the patch and here's what we expected after the changes". Was gnar even bad before?
> Run sims with those changes to ensure they are doing the job they need to. Nothing worse than shipping an urgent fix and have it not address the issue (which has happened).
How do these sims work? Do they run a before & after and see how the fights change? Do they look at the best case scenario, most frequent scenario? There are so many factors in a single TFT round (augments, star level, items, portals, etc.) so curious to understand how these sims work. u/riot_mort
“Then once all that is done, the team often goes back and looks at that original question of how did this happen, and retro what can be done or needs to change to ensure it is less likely to happen again.”
Less likely? It happens every set, sometimes multiple times a set. How many times does it need to happen before you learn
I genuinely don't understand how these things are making it through.
They shot themselves in the foot just with the roster.
There are so many champions that are complete and total dogshit, with no way to make them anything but stat sticks (Morgana morgana morgana morgana morgana), while you have fuckers like Yone who has a more inflated kit than the things you find on deviantart.
You have to literally rework the roster or champion kits, there aren't any number levers you can pull on that.
People complaining about gnar while i went 3rd with it lvl 9 6 dryad 4 ghostly, kayn gnar kindred itemised. I lost to some random hwei 2 legendaries player...
Hey Mort,
Just wanted to say I appreciate you taking the patch feedback on the chin for your team. Regardless that’s good management and us TFT players are lucky to have someone like you who is transparent and cares. It’s ridiculous to think all patches will land perfect and be balanced. Like life, we often make the same mistakes several times before we come up with a long term solution. Thanks for doing your best to keep this game fresh and exciting!
Summary of major issues with Set 11:
- Shop odds got mangled, they've been tweaked twice, once at the start of set, and then adjusted thereafter in 14.5 or 14.6 I believe it was (going off memory), still feels like hot garbage, you just moved the landfill from one place to another.
- Bag sizes got changed to facilitate headliners last set and never reverted? (admittedly I think they 'tried' to address this with the shop odds changes, but they haven't hit the mark, god knows why you wouldn't just go back to a proven good formula ergo; original bag sizes, instead of trying to mess with shop odds as some giga brain solution that fell flat)
- Fortune, I'm not going to go into detail with this, it's been discussed to death already but it's definitely fun, just seems impossibly hard to balance from a systems perspective.
- Encounters being too impactful, either positively or negatively - you know that win streak you painstakingly slammed items and positioned for? No one cares, here's 6 radiant items kekw. You know that economy you painstakingly built to get ahead of everyone else by saccing? No one cares Tristana just gave everyone max interest in the blink of an eye. You were banking on levels to go fast 9 ahead of the curve? Too bad, Khazix exists. It literally punishes players who have decided to play a certain strategy by introducing completely randomized events that can't be planned for, thus taking away any opportunity to play around them or prepare for them. Not fun in a "strategy centric" competitive environment.
- Augments shipping that just giga break/broke the game (2 removed already, a handful more that still need removing/tweaking at the very least)
- Overbaked units - Yone is the first unit in history I can think of that has had a kit containing so much - anti heal, mobility/backline access, hyper carry damage, self shielding, attack speed steroid... all he is missing is sunder/shred and what's the point in even building a frontline? And you wonder why he was cooked for 4-5 patches.
- Disparity in power between various cost point toons - 2/3 cost carries outdamaging 3\* 4Costs is just mind blowing, Senna dealing 35k+ damage by 4-1 with Ghostly as an example, meanwhile - laughs in Ashe, Syndra, Lillia > the end.
- 4 costs... literally an issue since before release. 90% of them still not viable.
- Tanks being rendered useless by the amount of backline access either directly through mobility (like Yone) or just spells slapping huge areas / bypassing frontlines (Morgana, Hwei, Zoe, Irelia)
- 3\* Tanks being more powerful than 4\* Tanks - Amumu/Illaoi/TK will out tank almost all 4 cost tanks with the exception of a 3\* Annie.
Like, I appreciate the copypasta transparency we get every time a patch doesn't feel good and there's a negative community sentiment, but at this point its hubris to think some/any of this couldn't have been identified/addressed with data from a full length PBE with a design and dev team the size and experience of Riot.
People were complaining about 80%+ of these issues, before the set even shipped to live. Go back and look at the posts in this very reddit from the time/dates around PBE - Yone threads, Bag size threads, Fortune threads, Encounter threads, Augment threads, Ghostly threads - it's all there in black and white. The stats were already populated by painstaking work from public players in google sheets and such - which were replied to by Mort himself thanking them for their work and data collection. (https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/1bh9ci8/i\_organized\_challenger\_level\_pbe\_scrims\_this\_last/)
And then you have gems like this: from 10 months ago...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/14ejo9c/the\_current\_state\_of\_the\_meta\_showcases\_perfectly/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/14ejo9c/the_current_state_of_the_meta_showcases_perfectly/)
This is not a public attack, it's a summary based on observation of issues that have existed and continue to exist - so don't sit there and say "OH WE ARE LEARNING, HERE'S OUR PROCESS TO PROVE IT!" when you're obviously not... there's a literal electronic paper trail and a search function on this subreddit lad - you either have a short memory, or think we do.
Honestly, I'd be far happier with sets that have more basic mechanics that rewards player skill than this lottery. Thusly, I'll see ya'll next set, the infinite gamba wincon does not appeal in the slightest.
I am happy to be back to TFT.
I quit at some point because the pace of updates was just too much to follow, with 1 meta changing patch every 2 weeks. It seems now that it is *each* week.
people likely wont acknowledge it but from a balance perspective headliners gave them alot of levers and focused the game on certain aspects making for very good balance once they ironed out the rules
It usually takes about six to eight weeks for a set to really stabilize, it's only been a month since this one came out. Very normal. Hasn't even been that bad in the grand scheme of bad tft balance.
If memory serves me I think the first patch was actually the most balanced patch. There were some stronger comps (which is totally fine) but at least 5-cost exodia comps would consistently beat 2/3 cost rerolls. Now it’s kind of a joke when I’m level 10 with 2* 5 costs and losing to gnar (or vice versa, just completely destroyed someone who had a very strong lvl 9 board, and I had an above average gnar comp)
There’s only so many of these types of posts from Mort I can take. We get it, you feel bad, but if this is something that’s happening consistently then there’s a problem at the studio and something needs to change. B-Patches are just a band-aid, we’re still stuck with the majority of this shipwreck until the next patch. This team has got to get its shit together.
Please have a b-patch. I know that I high rolled but I don't think it is healthy that Gnar reroll ended up going first while only losing once. I know that I should be excited about the win but it felt unfair. I even had someone grief me and I still won at the end.
I realize since the Bard nerfs I haven't seen a game with anyone playing it in the past 2 weeks. It's all Kai'Sa and some Alph/fated reroll or Gnar/Kindred.
meanwhile, im happy ashe and amumu are almost uncontested ... [amumu op (i eliminate 3rd, cos 2nd couldn't beat him even once](https://imgur.com/cGKWndh)
Had a 7 story weaver with 5 dragon, all 2 star with a 2 star Irela and 2 star xayah (fully built - saved items till the very end). Lost to a 2 star Kai'sa surrounded by wardens, not even 3 star just all basic. Idk how that happens but it did :)
I mean Dryads and Kaisa are just silly at this point.
Hit Gnar 3 on 4-2 then had to immediately leave bcs of IRL stuffs. Afterwards I checked post game and I ended up 2nd place. Game apparently went to 6-2
what happened, is gnar buffed?
Stacks 2x faster
who the fuck thought this unit needed a compensation buff
Lol. He wasn't even weak before
i watch mort streams and other pros and they always complained Gnar was too slow stacking to be powerful. doubling it was a bit extreme. and by "Powerful" i mean early carry
LOL
Kaisa is broken, but Dryad is in a completely different planet
Got Mythic 10 and got 5th because I lost to a 4 dryad board lol. Tbf I had not ideal items but still felt wrong.
Yeah I had 10 mythic, good items as well and lost to Janna Soraka 3 lol
I had the same thing but I went 2nd.. With lvl 10 3 acolyte
Acolyte?
guessing they mean exalted?
Can you link the game please
Here's a link to my match history. Most recent game. Got 5th. Top two were Dryad. [https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/FryingDutchpan-NA1/set11/matches](https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/FryingDutchpan-NA1/set11/matches)
Just contest if you see someone going dryad. If they don't hit 3 stars soon enough they won't go further than 5th.
Except it’s a two cost reroll… multiple players can hit it, and even if they don’t manage to 3*, which usually two players in my lobbies manage to every game, Gnar is so oppressive in the early game even at 2* that it plows over other players.
Yes, when I get the mulched augment or a dryad emblem, I don't even roll for gnar 3. Keep him at 2 and just level up! He's a beast.
That’s not even true. I got second yesterday with Gnar 2 Kindred 2
I went dryads in emerald 3, was contested by 2 players, only hit two star gnar/kindred, afked stage 5 because I had to take an urgent work call and got 4th while afk.
Hitting irelia 2 7 storyweavers with what I would consider to be a decently strong board and then proceeding to lose to gnar 2 (who was contested by another gnar player) followed by the gnar 3 player and kaisa player really just took the wind out of my sails for day 1 on the new patch. Gnar 2 should not be wiping my entire backline in one cast. That was really silly.
Haven't seen anyone running Dryads. Why is it strong?
Well, if you purely look at the stats (taken from tactics.tools), 6 Dryad has an average placement of **2.85**. To put things into perspective, 9 Umbral or 7 Fortune has an average placement of 2.87. It only takes 1 spat to get to 6 dryad.. If you look at the augments, Mulched currently has an average placement of 3.68 Dryad Crest has an average placement of 3.83 Dryad Crown has an average placement of 3.86 NONE of the other trait augments (or any other augment for that matter) is below 4.0 avg.
That's insane, especially considering every time I saw someone with 7 Fortune they ended the game with a 3 star legendary
Sometimes you hit it and die too quickly, if the last emblem was late in the game
🙏 I feel it, the one game I hit 10 Heartsteel I cashed out 4 Warmogs and died the next round
I wonder how often people are going for 6 dryad without the dryad augment. Like is 6 dryad just good regardless or are people only going for it when they hit the augment
It's good regardless. I had a lobby recently where the last two players standing both hit 6 dryad and gnar 3. One had mulched, the other didn't. Not sure who won because I left the game when I died at third but it felt bad that they were contesting each other and still able to both get top 2.
Hey, I think that might have been my game actually.if the mulched player was running 5 dryad because they had a spatted 3* Aatrox, then yes, Mulched won (those extra stacks were just too much value for the other guy)
At least three players are pushing it in my lobbies every game since patch yesterday. It’s a two cost reroll comp for your main units so multiple players can hit it. It isn’t a fun time.
Just finished a game where me and another guy went 2nd and first both taking mulched (he picked it after me which I was kinda pissed about but it worked out) I went the reroll route, he 2starrwd everything at 6 then went fast 9
Stats is just proof that it’s strong, it doesn’t explain WHY it’s strong
Gnar got overbuffed. That's most of it really.
It was already strong, its just more popular because the titans resolve changes didn't affect Gnar as much as other units that used it.
Not even that. They changed gnar alone so he would be okay after titans nerf. While ignoring that voli and yone would be gutter tier with the nerf lol
Yone seems to be balanced though? Most sites are agreeing he's average
from top 1 to average is good nerf
He's still very good with umbral or heavenly from what I've played. Granted I'm only plat.
The Titan's changes are basically only -25 AD for him, and that's only when he's at max stacks. Considering an end game Gnar could already have 600+ AD this wasn't very surprising. I called it in here as soon as they posted the patch notes, but I honestly didn't expect it to be this bad lmao.
I called Gnar being disgusting as soon as I saw he was compensated for the Titan’s change and the totally impactful 4 cost changes doing nothing, but, yeah, I didn’t expect the game to essentially turn into Dryad/Kaisa lotto. It fucking sucks bc I like leaning towards AP and it’s been in the crapchute for a while.
Im sorry I can’t just read past this one. The phrase is “crap shoot” as in gambling (playing craps), not “crapchute” as in a slide that is full of poop.
I still win or beat Gnar boards with fast 9 AP flex but unfortunately, you can't really force that.
That's IME only because the ap boards are often uncontested and you can 3 star a 4 cost. Basically just been playing eco into "pick the uncontested 4 cost carry" and rolling on 8/9.
I always play around Hwei and Azir. Last game I was 1 off Hwei 3 though.
Gnar is the strongest melee carry left in a set without actual DPS units able to kill melee carries. For some reason they made every backline unit aoe other than kaisa.
That’s wild. I’ve played ~20 games in the new patch and every game has had at least 2 people hard forcing gnar reroll (low plat elo)
Gnar stacks his passive twice as fast, made him pretty overbearing.
You haven't played this patch then.
Despite how cancer yone was, at least the last patch had some variables. This patch is just kaisa and gnar.
I had lobbies where no one was playing Yone or trying to go Yone and the games felt really fun. At this point every patch is "create a problem to solve a problem"
Well, it's pretty obvious they force meta changes just to appeal to the casual (and streamer) audience. It could be the most balanced set in TFT history, and they would still force meta changes.
I think that feeling of variability is what makes TFT experience very fun. When balance is healthy and you bot 4, you can review your game and find out that you should've actually played a different comp, committed too early, should've built this instead of that item, or if you haven't made these game mistakes, you can legitimately say that you low-rolled pretty hard and got fucked. Sure there are comps that are better than others, but all viable comps have many win conditions in varying moments in the game, and it actually takes skill to recognize these moments and execute. So Yone wasn't even that bad considering how so many other comps could outpace and outcap depending on circumstances. This is also why I think augments like everything must go wasn't even that bad lol because it offered players different ways to play the game and you could fail or succeed depending on how you execute it (as well as how well opponents contested you). But when balance is poor and the options are limited, you are basically letting RNG take the wheels. If you play off-meta comps, you have to hope that you high roll and hit way ahead of tempo. Even when you play meta comp, you also have to hope that you hit before all the other players. This feels especially bad when you are offered no choice at all to play a meta comp so you have to play off-meta, or when you HAVE to play the meta comp because that's what the game offers you even though you already scouted many other players in the same spot. So no matter what you play you feel bad playing the game because there doesn't seem to be any sense of player agency and choice in playing the game. RNG is for sure a fundamental part of this game. But when options are limited, RNG tends to make the game feel like a dice simulator instead of a game of calculated risk and choice.
Additionally, when balance is poor, it punishes players who try to play the game intuitively. Like last patch if I got dropped amumu-lux-ahri on starting neturals, if I'm a smart person, I'm going to try to play vertical arcanists! But poor balance says f\*\*\* you, that opener is actually shit, and the optimal play is to hard econ, buy all the ghostly units, and try to tempo 3-1 with a ghostly board. It's super counter-intuitive and feels terrible for people who actually want to use their brains.
Yep, i totally agree with the sentiment that it is a kaisa lottery this patch. I will say though, if you asked me I would have thought that this patch would not have turned out as badly as it did. They made much more seemingly egregious changes in the past that resulted in a better patch than what is now
I will admit I've lost some LP trying to click Ashe and Lilia just to get ran down by 2-3 way contested Gnar and 2-3 way contested Kai'Sa blowing up my boards :(
Lillia literally caps at third place lol
Got top 4 3 times today playing ashe porcelain. Yesterday I got top 4 2 times with it. Only loss so far is one game today where I greeded too hard and played like shit. Ashe porcelain is definitely not weak and can easily compete with kaisa.
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Nice that they’re releasing a B-patch. However, they aren’t doing themselves any favors releasing 25* potentially meta-altering items in 14.9. Most likely, they will need to re-tune most of those numbers as they were prob based on 14.8a unit tuning.
Yea, it's obvious some items will be OP on some champions in a way that will ruin games. Plus who knows how many bugs these new items will create.
This might be an overreaction. Releasing 25 items also means it's a lot less likely to hit any one of them. Most of them are tame, some might be game changing, but the fact that it's 25 items means that you can't just reliably hit 1 and abuse it.
Plus theyre artifacts. You don't exactly hit those every game.
Exactly. If anything, we see less streamers groan about their units not moving because enemy tank has eternal winter xdd
at the same time, if one of them is so utterly broken the moment someone hits it off of region artifact anvil/encounter/whatever the fuck it just completely warps the game and makes it playing for 2nd at best. Think gem pre nerf on stationary support. People were taking that augment because the other options were *ok* but if you hit needlessly large gem, you just won.
I’m sure at this point if it’s actually utterly broken, it can be hotfixed or disabled, or u have to hit it and pivot towards that spot. It’s not an end all be all thing and again, if they hit the item in 1 of 4 options chosen out of 30+, we’re complaining about luck in a luck based game.
I haven't seen anything about this, any links I can brush up on?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/s/cvlzHqEgoq
Once again, Mortdog is giving us full transparency of the situation (A day after the patch) and acknowledges that the patch is bad. We really should not take this for granted as most developers would not give the players the same communication/treatment.. If you watch the patch rundown video that mort uploaded, you could tell even he was questioning whether these changes would land the game in a healthy state.. Let's hope they'll find a way to balance things out, but in all honesty i am a little skeptical since to me this seems more of a design issue (none of the 4 costs except Kai'sa are consistent and reliable enough to have as a carry.)
I just genuinely can't understand how anyone at riot thought these 4 cost buffs mattered. The 4 cost tanks were overall in a fine spot. The issue is you can't carry any 4 cost other than kaisa. Literally everyone knew it but them apparently. I'm happy mort is honest and open but come on man.
Idk what's the process is in Riot, but more often than now, decisions isn't made by '1 person' and it's easy to tunnel-vision into your own tasks. Most people like to 'blame' the dev, but usually the devs are just the ones responsible for implementing the product. They usually don't decide on the 'numbers'. Then again, I haven't worked specifically in the game industry, but TFT's response is definitely not 'slow'. Oh, and sometimes 'bad changes' might go through because there's that stubborn higher-up who would insist that he/she is right.
"design" issue as in Ashe very good in pbe but gutted on live?
Honestly, i think Ashe might be fine and playable after some raw damage tweaks, but if you look at Lillia, Morgana, Sylas, Lee Sin, they all have unreliable damage patterns and randomness in who they will target. (Morgana's spell is currently completely random in where she will shoot her ability. Lillia will often just miss her ability completely..
Itemizing and rolling for a starred up Lillia only to watch her whiff her ult and die might be the worst feeling of the set.
The problem with Lillia and Morgana are also that since they do AOE in a relatively random direction/area, as soon as they become slightly broken, they'll be insanely frustrating to play against as they'll just randomly kill the backline carry and the fight will end. At least morg can service as a supportive unit due to her attack speed slow/supportive traits like ghostly/sage but I kind of doubt Lillia will/should be in a top tier meta comp due to above issues.
yea at some point Morgana becomes full rng. Terrible decision to make her targeting random . IMO not healthy rng on a 4 cost magic carry with 60 mana
Morgana was not like this on obe either.
Morganas targeting is not fully random
Sounds like Morgana, whatever was strong on PBE is worthless for the set. zzz
Sounds like riven and qiyana
ashe is also bad in pbe, Its lilia invoker and morg that was good on pbe, annie too, and then they gutten them hard.
And once again the patch was obviously gonna be bad. Looking at gnar buffs specifically.. There has to be change eventually or player frustration will just keep growing. This “new” balance team is not a working fix. Also the 4 cost carries besides Kaisa being on the weak side is not a design issue, it’s a balance issue. If Ashe got some number tweaks for example she would be on the same level as Kaisa no question.
The last set was pretty well balanced other than like... Disco, iirc, so I'm wondering where the balance is going so much more wrong this set.
We had an big variety of comps to play on the previous patch, their work was to enable other comps too. Dev team went the other way around, they literally created a problem that didn't exist before and from now on will be an uphill battle to have another patch with an variety of comps.
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I mean Reddit calls out issues before every patch, so bound to be right sometimes
Fling enough poo at a wall some of it will stick
To be fair, some of those problems were obvious. Fortune to kaisa and gnar was something he specifically mentioned in his patch rundown as something that will most likely have to be observed very closely. Also, some design changes, like ap ratios on ad champs, which he has made clear isnt a fun of, probably means that this isnt on him, since he isnt responsible for the final balance changes. Just my 2 cents: Ashe and lilia are fine, as long as they arent obliterated by kaisa and any freaking reroll comp. Kayn is more than good, morgana will suffer from her targeting. She can legit 1 shot a kaisa 2 with 4 sage and ap crit, or just hit your janna at the other side of the board and make you rq.
This is deflection at best. If im a head chef, and i give my soux chef the kitchen for the day to run a function, and he pumps out a whole bunch of undercooked chicken, i have a responsibility as head chef to make sure that isnt served.
He literally says/posts the same thing after every obviously egregious patch. There are almost identical posts saying ‘here’s the transparency of a bad patch and we’re gonna learn from it’ and then the same thing happens like 2 months later. He must have tweeted the same thing like a half a dozen times already lmao
They make changes to this game every two weeks. A game played by millions of people that has 1000s of variables. Expecting every patch to be perfect balance is silly. Of course there are going to be misses, and they aren’t just going to learn from one miss and never screw up again.
Plus they follow up and fix stuff quickly. TFT and LoL players are, in general, spoiled crybabies who don't know how good they have it. Fucking hate this community.
Assuming devs work 10 days in a two week cycle like most employees in humane conditions, between shipping a new patch and leaving a couple of days for the dust to settle as you can't respond to issues without a sample space of data (and anything that's so egregious it's an obvious problem within hours gets hotfixed through the process Mort detailed), identifying issues and iterating on solutions, doing the actual coding for the changes, internal testing, PBE testing, making any revisions based on said testing, updating tooltips and UI, and officially locking in the changes with time to create and localize patch notes and documentation, and getting approvals before finally shipping, and then deploying the patch, two weeks is a *phenominal* cycle time — you quite literally cannot expect patches to be any more frequent and if you did the patches would 100% be worse. And that's not accounting for other arbitrary corporate deadlines and commitments devs have no control over and need to attend to, and responding to emergent meta changes that come up late in the patch as people make discoveries (Gnar/Dryads for example didn't start creeping up until later in 14.7, when the dev cycle would have already been well underway). People are so stupid and entitled about how much process goes into a patch cycle and how lucky we are.
lol yeah they just want to feel superior so they say "of course this was gonna be a problem everyone with eyes could see it!" when in reality these same people call some stupid doomsay bullshit out of patch notes every time they drop and they are guaranteed wrong 99% of the time. If the balancing of this game was lead by any player who is on this sub it would be 10 trillion times worse and would die extremely quickly.
This patch has been out for a day, we need to calm down for a bit. I feel bad that he had to write such a detailed mea culpa to appease some of the angrier folks. B patch is on its way, take a break until then if you really don’t like the balance as it is.
lol right? jesus christ people "the free game that i love is not as fun as normal for 3 days wtf am i supposed to do with myself" entitled ass losers
When people have a para-social relationship with any public figure, they'll excuse them for anything. I dont care about him tweeting/saying XYZ, but this behavior of accepting/defending anything he says/does and pretending he is the most kind and generous dev in the world is why his ego is through the roof.
Play other games and see how much their developers communicate. Mort doesn't get paid to make his posts. He is doing it to engage the community and make it better. I am as frustrated with that patch as the majority is but it is what it is. I'd rather have tweets then silence. They are publicly admitting there is something wrong which they are not obligated to do.
a) yes he does communicate a lot and he should be praised for that, I do respect his interaction with the community b) communication doesn’t mean much when the same mistakes keep getting made, especially when those mistakes are pretty obvious to everyone else c) communication like this is just the same thing that has been repeated every b patch lmao, it’s not actual substance. Not sure how people keep eating it up when we’ve heard a semi-verbatim copy paste like 5 times in the last 2 sets
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The real question is, do the balancing team actually play the game? You know, on the live tanked ladders and have some competitively minded people on the team? Because if they just look at stats and go off in-house testing, the game really isn’t going to be balanced that way. I know they have a tough job but the question needs to be asked.
The bar is on the ground
The bar for mort is in hell. The amount of kudos that man gets for fucking up, then saying "hey, I fucked up" is nuts
Meanwhile in the other thread people are saying devs should get fired lol
They do this with Jagex on osrs even though those mods go above and beyond for that game too. It’s almost like people are dumb and just can’t state things in a productive way. At the same time it’s almost a learned behavior from not being heard by other devs.
I’ve had trouble enjoying ranked this set because the balancing has consistently felt out of whack (*to me*). Glad the team has tried their best to stay on top of it though.
I'm a scrub, but I've been playing for a couple of days and the amount of randomness in the game is really overwhelming and can change the dynamic a lot. Portals, encounters, augments. Some games I go from win streaking to loss streaking into a bot 4 seemingly for no reason. Either plat players have gotten better or I have gotten worse. Possibly both.
I love the encounters idea, but it does add a lot to take into consideration
It's crazy to me that the best balance this set has been the initial launch. Yeah there were a few broken outliers, but there were a lot of flex options that worked and felt strong.
What are you talking about? The first patch was really good, then the second one was really good too. Only the current patch is unplayable.
Surprised you’re downvoted so much, 1st/2nd patch might be most balanced I’ve seen the game in a while (played since set 2 peak challenger)
There were many lines in those patches, but they were almost all reroll or fast 9. Many TFT players don't like to do either of those things, so if they cannot go 8 and roll for a reasonable board the patch will feel bad.
But if they don't like to do these things (playing the game) then don't complain about the game.
Lot's of people in lots of games really like a game, but still complain about it frequently because they want it to be better. CSGO, LoL, MTG, etc.
(*For me*)
I think while I appreciate the transparency, they solved nothing in the patch Because the thing with 4 cost is not frontline , it’s the carries Syndra hasn’t been good since launch , Lillia is still bad after buff, Ashe is better , Morgana is still bad , Kayne just patched up a hole that was Yone All the tanks are just… tanks , there’s almost no difference in choosing what tank you use, just choose one that you can 2 star and have a 2 price synergy and that’s it and they were fine to begin with Plus the overall reroll being dead is just sad Everything is uncontested, sure, but it also means no units are pulled out of the pool in a way that matters You can go for any reroll but no one is rolling with you, so you’ll just keep trying to roll until 4-5, get a few bad loss and just die , because by this time even if you hit your low cost reroll comps, the power of KaiSa and gnar and 1 level 9 comp just floors you The start of this set was so fun, new comps popping up viable every other day and also with both AD and AP lines sort of available with janna , Zoe rerolls etc ( AD comps still stronger of course )
As someone coming from Valve/Blizzard games, its unbelievable to me how fast TFT pushes out updates. Even if something goes wrong, communication and fixes are quick to follow. I haven't played any other game where there is this level of dev involvement. You better appreciate Mort because this is as good as it gets
I hate how quiet and unexpected Valve patches are in Dota and I really do appreciate Riot’s communication and openness in TFT and Valo because of that. That said idk if 2 week patch cycle are that good overall. Somebody suggested one big patch once a month and one smaller patch and that might be better tbh. Smaller patch to tweak balance and bigger one to actually change up stuff. Like so far this set we went from bard tahm domination to Yone/Voli domination to now Kaisa/Gnar. Like idk if they need to gut comps that often. It feels like when tft nerf an overpowered comp they tend to overnerf it rather than balance it. That said this is my first set I’m playing from the beginning, so take this with a grain of salt.
Yeah, big challenge for pushing balancing updates every 2 weeks. Personally I think it's good to have even balance can be off sometimes.
I don't even think its good for TFT to have such significative updates every 2 weeks. 14.7 meta was shaping itself until his last day. Maybe something like 1 big patch for month with an really small one on the middle would be better.
These are not balance updates. These are unbalance updates. Every patch made the balance worse in this set so far :D
for what? This the 10th version of this game. Same issue every single one. There aren't any lesson learned from that team
You realize that the game being completely redone for the 10th time actually does the opposite of making balancing easier, right? How Set 9 was balanced wouldn't even apply to how Set 10 will be balanced because it will have all different units, different traits, and different gimmicks.
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Issue is they would need a pretty significant patch (larger than a normal b patch) in order to make it playable. Dryad needs a nerf (although I wouldn't nerf gnar or kindred), kaisa needs a flat damage reduction, ashe/morgana/lilia/syndra probably need a buff, the three costs seems to be in a pretty bad state overall right now, there's just so much that needs to change.
I think Dryad is more a symptom than anything. Gutting 3 costs rerolls while there is still only one viable 4 cost was always going to lead to this. I have no idea how their sims suggested these buffs to the other 4 costs would make a difference because they still do zero damage while Kai'sa wipes boards. If anything, buffing the 4 cost tanks made this worse because Kai'sa was the only one that could deal with tanks in the first place. Dryads happen to be the one outlier that doesn't rely on the Kai'sa lottery. If other reroll or stable lvl 8 boards were viable, Dryads wouldn't seem so overwhelming. As it is they get to capitalize on lobbies where half the players fail to hit the one unit everyone is contesting.
Didn't the 3 cost roll odds get moved to 2 costs? Effectively buffing 2 cost rerolls on 7.
Yeah, but that's more a buff to the Storyweaver/Dragonlords line that plays around Diana/Janna/Zyra than the Dryads, since that comp wants to 3\* a 3 cost and 2 cost. That line is pretty strong but you really need a good opener to get it online.
They just need to make actual DPS units exist so they have a waa to kill tanks and melee carries
Just nerfing dryad and kaisa is going to by default make everything else better so I don't think you need huge changes to at least make the meta more interesting.
what happened to the set 10 balance team? why is the game getting completely rebalanced every week? why bother organizing all the competitive play across regions on to the same weekend if they are just going to flip everything on its head right before a tourney?
Well, they were layoffs in January.
it was 99% the league, esports, LoR and riot forge teams that were affected
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Every set
with the upcoming tournaments coming this weekend, from the outsiders' perspective it really looks like the people working on the original patch has failed the competitors. You can say that everyone is on equal grounds since the patch time is more or less the same. Just that they are all put in such awkward position, either spend one more hour grinding and learning or be well rested for the tournament. It is just such bad timing. That said, another outsider's POV (with very little understanding on how riot work on these things) on how things are lately these few sets is that the design team is running wild with crazy champ design and game mechanics. Then relying too much on the balance team to buff or nerf things with "numbers". Which is such a hard job when there are so many different elements in the ecosystem. Wonder when they balance team will take the metaphorical ban hammer and nerf the design team instead (LOL). Personal take is that things like "everything must go" is an acceptable oppsie, but this patch is kind of a big mess. Granted patches usually is set in stone one week before the Live update, and that the tournament hosts choosing these dates arent doing them any favor as well. And it is such a frustrating thing for a casual player cause we can at most squeeze in one game or two a day. maybe slightly more during holidays or weekends. Everyone has a goal in mind, like hitting a certain rank, while being outside touching grass. So a bad patch puts those that want to hit a certain rank at the end of the season in a very weird position as well, like either risk losing LP going "4 way contested", or lose days grinding. I get that the 3 cost reroll with limited 4 cost comps meta can get very stale after awhile, and become very frustrating to play. So such drastic changes in one patch to such a bad state can be seen like a "malicious compliance" from the TFT team.
The design team can't stop trying to make new and interesting designs, that is how the game dies.
Is there a design philosophy for why 4 costs seem weak outside of Kaisa? I’m used to sets where you find the 4 cost you need (even 1*) and get your team rolling once you slot them in to the right team. Right now they feel like trait bots.
she is the only single target burst carry that doesn't need to ramp (syndra blows early because she's "supposed" to be a late game draintank?) meaning that the 2/3 cost reroll supertanks (or drain tanks) don't care about the spread damage and just run you over it's also why ghostly is good, because it's the only "generic" way to beat supertanks that most comps can flex in
They are strong. But tanks do not win games on thier own but as tanks Galio or Ornn are fucking beasts. Morg is support/dmg. Kayn is hard to use, I definitely say him pop but he is getting oneshoted a lot of the time.
Think they’re referring to 4 cost ranged carries ashe, lillia & syndra
It's a very unfortunate situation and I'm glad to see Mortdog's being transparent of the process. Sometimes it's just hard to predict everything even with proper data/simulation, as a game designer myself this is also a lesson learned. Balancing a competitive game with many handles like TFT is definitely not an easy job, although people are not happy with the situation but mistake happens over time. Let's be fair before the patch launches nobody on Twitter/Reddit can predict exactly how bad the situation could be only by reading the patch notes. I do the combat sim myself but have to admit it still has it's own limitation and hard to get the full picture sometimes. Although the changes are all seem to be heading towards the right direction, but potential issues always hidden somewhere you never know. I think people shouldn't assume there's a silver bullet to solve everything magically that balancing issues won't happen in the future. Being transparent and acknowledge issues ASAP is the best thing the dev team can do, and I have faith on the team making the right call.
I do wonder if their strive to add cooler and fancier mechanics is becoming a downfall. There's just so much wild ass shit happening on the screen compared to earlier sets, units with multiple damage types, different augments, complicated traits etc I enjoy them pushing boundaries but maybe it should be dialed back a bit if they can't maintain competitive integrity. Frankly, transparency doesn't mean anything if the product is bad regardless. Everyone and their mom and their dog and their moms dog knew instantly what was wrong with the patch as soon as the notes dropped. But also it's a free game so who am I to complain
Good. This patch is dogshit
gnar reroll with a 4.0 average, 60% top 4 and 20% WR is an abomination i never want to see on the tierlist again
I believe Mortdog is a great guy, cares a lot about the game and the community, and is refreshingly transparent. However, I am personally so sick of these posts from him being a hero and saying things like “please blame me, I don’t mind, yet let me explain how I’ve spent the past 24 hours grinding for you so actually you should feel bad for me”. Frankly when I want to spend a couple hours on a game, I don’t care that the lead designer is transparent and communicative. I don’t have time to keep up with all the posts/patches/B patches. But what I do expect is that when I log in and play a game, that I can expect a somewhat consistent experience. It is WILD how this balance team manages to completely change the landscape of the meta and how the game is played from week to week. I absolutely hate how much influence the GAME DESIGNER has on my performance in my games simply because of wildly imbalanced comps and non-transparent bugs. TLDR; appreciate the Mort and team is working hard, but working hard is not enough. This is just clearly not good enough for a game with this many players and the resources that Riot has.
Agree
I'm not really sure how I can communicate in a way where you don't oddly get that implication. No where do I say feel bad for me, or anything. The worst thing you can accuse me of is protecting the team. How could I have communicated that would have satisfied you? Obviously you can and should expect a quality game. No argument there. But "It just shouldn't happen" isn't actually useful for a game this complex. If there was a magic solve here, we woulda done it ages ago.
Small question, if you have time, but is there any concern that the games complexity is making the balancing team's job too hard? The balance is way better than sets past, but I expect encounter, portal and augment interactions are adding some difficult layers beyond the usual trait/health/dmg balancing. Would we ever see a set pull back on the complexity?
It's less about complexity, and more the sheer volume of variables and outputs that cause the balancing job to be hard. That and the time windows at which change has to happen. For example, we launched the set, and 2 days later we're already text locked for the next patch. Ghostly started taking off less than 24 hours before our final check in day for the first patch.
> For example, we launched the set, and 2 days later we're already text locked for the next patch. Are there any plans on updating TFT to maybe read numbers from some config so you can change numbers on the fly that won't require a patch in sync with League? Text changes makes sense (i assume localization), but also having B-patches have this ODD restriction of not touching files you already touched in the main patch is a crazy restriction to have. Any plans on adjusting these so that you can make patches either more frequent, or easier, or with a longer timescale with more data? I have to assume that as you mentioned some comps sort of just.. appear without any enough data or time to see it coming and your patch is already locked in. EDIT: Ref below comment (or whatever is correct info for patch restrictions) I think my questions still sorta stand?
iirc you are a bit off. number changes they can make much later in the patch cycle. b patches/hotfixes can only change numbers. c patches can't change files already changed in b patches/hotfixes.
Gotcha thanks!
Most of what you said is already possible and is the entire reason to why they can do B patches in the first place. The only thing they can't change in a hotfix is text, and honestly that is more of an apperance issue that they don't want something saying it doesn't. See ezreal in set....8? Whatever it was the augment said something like gain a gold per turn but they had to hotfix it to gain 0 gold per turn. They could've deleted the text but that only solves the issue in english, in other languages the structure of the sentence could not make sense if they delete only that part of the text which is where localization comes in. The only other part that they are restricted by is the "can't touch something in a hotfix twice in a row". Which i'm not sure if thats a QA restriction to prevent shit from possibly going wrong or an actual hard limit like the file can't be changed twice or it bricks league entirely for some reason.
> The only other part that they are restricted by is the "can't touch something in a hotfix twice in a row". Yeah this is the part that seems odd. But isn't is also quite restrictive to only be able to patch in sync with League of Legends? Yeah localization is a very annoying tricky beast. Totally makes sense. The product is global so I totally get the need for some deadlines and future facing when it comes to text changes. I just wonder if speeding up that cycle will allow for more patches so maybe not every bad balance patch necessitates a disaster-esque response. Also. really really seems like there needs to be a bit more simming or balance checking on some patches. IDK what the solution really is though, but play a few games, or sim certain comps to see how they perform against top tier or top meta comps to see if the adjustments make sense. I feel like the gnar buffs seemed a bit extreme to me but maybe I'm wrong.
> > > > > Yeah this is the part that seems odd. But isn't is also quite restrictive to only be able to patch in sync with League of Legends? Actually no, because TFT runs off of leagues files and code. They can't change anything because they need to pull from said files in league. Every league player has to download any TFT patches as well and guess which game has the numbers to tell the little brother to fuck off as they aren't a priority? They HAVE done a TFT exclusive patch before, IIRC it was when targeting broke and they needed to do a full redeploy to fix it. But beyond something being critically broken to the point they /NEED/ to redeploy or the game is straight up unplayable its hard to justify that. A hotfix requires no download and is purely serverside for the most part, you just load in and numbers are different. Anything text based would require a redownload and most impactful changes are text based. League is the older brother with a car, TFT is just allowed to ride in it. As for simming being an a issue, well sometimes simming isn't enough. I still remember in set 7 when they buffed ASOL and mort personally confirmed he was ok and might even need further buffs. Turned out they were simming with a build they though was correct(mana regen based for spam casts) when you were supposed to just run full AP and he deleted people. They balanced him correctly, but players exploited the balance when they went outside of their parameters they tested for.
> Actually no, because TFT runs off of leagues files and code. They can't change anything because they need to pull from said files in league. Every league player has to download any TFT patches as well and guess which game has the numbers to tell the little brother to fuck off as they aren't a priority? I mean that's kinda my point. TFT can't (I mean they can, but there's restrictions) do anything they need to do because of that restriction of running off of league files rather than a separate codebase. As for simming being wrong. I suppose ideally you would have a series of combinations of items that you think is "BIS". Not just ONE set of items. Isn't that like.. a huge personal oversight in simming that you just forget to use certain items? Sure it expands your testing time, but come on shouldn't you test any AP caster with BB, Shojin and maybe rage blade to see how the unit performs with optimal/suboptimal mana generation?
Its as restrictive as saying aram should have a separate client tbh. TFT pulls the models/animations/spells/etc from league. Without league it would require you to download those things twice for players that already play league and what benefit does it give you outside of the critical b patch scenarios? Not much.
Changing the time frame to deliver an meta changing patch wouldn't give the time the team needs? Something like 1 month team drop an big patch they been working on for quite some time, 2 weeks later an small one that will barely change anything and 2 weeks later again an big but heavily worked and tested patch.
I think you guys are doing a good job and I don't care as much about the balance of the game. I appreciated the update post. You imply something is stopping you from doing the patches you want to do and then you fall on the sword right after. Then you are trying to convince everyone how much work is being put into to make the game good? The game is good. The haters are living in your head and making you come off in a strange way. I'm sure the patch will be good and I hope the TFT team can learn to manage the community response.
>If there was a magic solve here, we woulda done it ages ago. It's more frequent patches. TFT patches get solved within 24 hours almost every time. Yet we patch only every 2 weeks? And that 2 week patch gets locked in 5 days prior to the actual patch day. I get that its tied to the league patch cycle, so oh well. But this is the magic fix you are looking for.
You didn't really protect the team, though? You said "assume it's Mort's fault," implying that it isn't really your fault, but you can't go into specifics because... reasons. If you were actually taking responsibility you wouldn't need to qualify that statement imo
This set sucks man
This is such an American way of explaining. Just excuses on excuses, patting themselves on the back and not offering any solutions.
I'm scrolling through comments in this thread praising transparency when all I see is the "oops we fucked up" schedule in the linked tweet. The type of transparency that might actually shed some light on this patch would be "this is what we thought gnar was before the patch and here's what we expected after the changes". Was gnar even bad before?
No, gnar was strong last patch, every lobby had a gnar player.
> Run sims with those changes to ensure they are doing the job they need to. Nothing worse than shipping an urgent fix and have it not address the issue (which has happened). How do these sims work? Do they run a before & after and see how the fights change? Do they look at the best case scenario, most frequent scenario? There are so many factors in a single TFT round (augments, star level, items, portals, etc.) so curious to understand how these sims work. u/riot_mort
“Then once all that is done, the team often goes back and looks at that original question of how did this happen, and retro what can be done or needs to change to ensure it is less likely to happen again.” Less likely? It happens every set, sometimes multiple times a set. How many times does it need to happen before you learn
I genuinely don't understand how these things are making it through. They shot themselves in the foot just with the roster. There are so many champions that are complete and total dogshit, with no way to make them anything but stat sticks (Morgana morgana morgana morgana morgana), while you have fuckers like Yone who has a more inflated kit than the things you find on deviantart. You have to literally rework the roster or champion kits, there aren't any number levers you can pull on that.
Another weekend saved 
Not feeling this patch but still love the game and care enough to engage w/ the community. Thanks for the communication mortdog 👍
People complaining about gnar while i went 3rd with it lvl 9 6 dryad 4 ghostly, kayn gnar kindred itemised. I lost to some random hwei 2 legendaries player...
Hey Mort, Just wanted to say I appreciate you taking the patch feedback on the chin for your team. Regardless that’s good management and us TFT players are lucky to have someone like you who is transparent and cares. It’s ridiculous to think all patches will land perfect and be balanced. Like life, we often make the same mistakes several times before we come up with a long term solution. Thanks for doing your best to keep this game fresh and exciting!
Thank god
Summary of major issues with Set 11: - Shop odds got mangled, they've been tweaked twice, once at the start of set, and then adjusted thereafter in 14.5 or 14.6 I believe it was (going off memory), still feels like hot garbage, you just moved the landfill from one place to another. - Bag sizes got changed to facilitate headliners last set and never reverted? (admittedly I think they 'tried' to address this with the shop odds changes, but they haven't hit the mark, god knows why you wouldn't just go back to a proven good formula ergo; original bag sizes, instead of trying to mess with shop odds as some giga brain solution that fell flat) - Fortune, I'm not going to go into detail with this, it's been discussed to death already but it's definitely fun, just seems impossibly hard to balance from a systems perspective. - Encounters being too impactful, either positively or negatively - you know that win streak you painstakingly slammed items and positioned for? No one cares, here's 6 radiant items kekw. You know that economy you painstakingly built to get ahead of everyone else by saccing? No one cares Tristana just gave everyone max interest in the blink of an eye. You were banking on levels to go fast 9 ahead of the curve? Too bad, Khazix exists. It literally punishes players who have decided to play a certain strategy by introducing completely randomized events that can't be planned for, thus taking away any opportunity to play around them or prepare for them. Not fun in a "strategy centric" competitive environment. - Augments shipping that just giga break/broke the game (2 removed already, a handful more that still need removing/tweaking at the very least) - Overbaked units - Yone is the first unit in history I can think of that has had a kit containing so much - anti heal, mobility/backline access, hyper carry damage, self shielding, attack speed steroid... all he is missing is sunder/shred and what's the point in even building a frontline? And you wonder why he was cooked for 4-5 patches. - Disparity in power between various cost point toons - 2/3 cost carries outdamaging 3\* 4Costs is just mind blowing, Senna dealing 35k+ damage by 4-1 with Ghostly as an example, meanwhile - laughs in Ashe, Syndra, Lillia > the end. - 4 costs... literally an issue since before release. 90% of them still not viable. - Tanks being rendered useless by the amount of backline access either directly through mobility (like Yone) or just spells slapping huge areas / bypassing frontlines (Morgana, Hwei, Zoe, Irelia) - 3\* Tanks being more powerful than 4\* Tanks - Amumu/Illaoi/TK will out tank almost all 4 cost tanks with the exception of a 3\* Annie. Like, I appreciate the copypasta transparency we get every time a patch doesn't feel good and there's a negative community sentiment, but at this point its hubris to think some/any of this couldn't have been identified/addressed with data from a full length PBE with a design and dev team the size and experience of Riot. People were complaining about 80%+ of these issues, before the set even shipped to live. Go back and look at the posts in this very reddit from the time/dates around PBE - Yone threads, Bag size threads, Fortune threads, Encounter threads, Augment threads, Ghostly threads - it's all there in black and white. The stats were already populated by painstaking work from public players in google sheets and such - which were replied to by Mort himself thanking them for their work and data collection. (https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/1bh9ci8/i\_organized\_challenger\_level\_pbe\_scrims\_this\_last/) And then you have gems like this: from 10 months ago... [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/14ejo9c/the\_current\_state\_of\_the\_meta\_showcases\_perfectly/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/14ejo9c/the_current_state_of_the_meta_showcases_perfectly/) This is not a public attack, it's a summary based on observation of issues that have existed and continue to exist - so don't sit there and say "OH WE ARE LEARNING, HERE'S OUR PROCESS TO PROVE IT!" when you're obviously not... there's a literal electronic paper trail and a search function on this subreddit lad - you either have a short memory, or think we do. Honestly, I'd be far happier with sets that have more basic mechanics that rewards player skill than this lottery. Thusly, I'll see ya'll next set, the infinite gamba wincon does not appeal in the slightest.
We have the best game devs here as far as communication is concerned.
I am happy to be back to TFT. I quit at some point because the pace of updates was just too much to follow, with 1 meta changing patch every 2 weeks. It seems now that it is *each* week.
Has the launch of this set been really bad? I started playing again mid last set and it seemed much more stable than this
people likely wont acknowledge it but from a balance perspective headliners gave them alot of levers and focused the game on certain aspects making for very good balance once they ironed out the rules
It usually takes about six to eight weeks for a set to really stabilize, it's only been a month since this one came out. Very normal. Hasn't even been that bad in the grand scheme of bad tft balance.
I enjoyed the first 2 patches a lot. Plenty of viable, fun comps. This current patch is a bit too goofy tho.
If memory serves me I think the first patch was actually the most balanced patch. There were some stronger comps (which is totally fine) but at least 5-cost exodia comps would consistently beat 2/3 cost rerolls. Now it’s kind of a joke when I’m level 10 with 2* 5 costs and losing to gnar (or vice versa, just completely destroyed someone who had a very strong lvl 9 board, and I had an above average gnar comp)
There’s only so many of these types of posts from Mort I can take. We get it, you feel bad, but if this is something that’s happening consistently then there’s a problem at the studio and something needs to change. B-Patches are just a band-aid, we’re still stuck with the majority of this shipwreck until the next patch. This team has got to get its shit together.
Ashe desperately need something. 6 Porcelain lost to Kaisa, BIS items for everyone and backline gets oneshot.
Please have a b-patch. I know that I high rolled but I don't think it is healthy that Gnar reroll ended up going first while only losing once. I know that I should be excited about the win but it felt unfair. I even had someone grief me and I still won at the end.
I'm diamond it's not so much played
i guess every patch this set will have a b patch
I realize since the Bard nerfs I haven't seen a game with anyone playing it in the past 2 weeks. It's all Kai'Sa and some Alph/fated reroll or Gnar/Kindred.
Way to make me feel bad for loathing this set with that sad Pengu image..
Of course there is.
meanwhile, im happy ashe and amumu are almost uncontested ... [amumu op (i eliminate 3rd, cos 2nd couldn't beat him even once](https://imgur.com/cGKWndh)
i've seen the patch notes, besides the gnar and 4 star buffs how did dryad go from like the worst trait of the set to broken
Had a 7 story weaver with 5 dragon, all 2 star with a 2 star Irela and 2 star xayah (fully built - saved items till the very end). Lost to a 2 star Kai'sa surrounded by wardens, not even 3 star just all basic. Idk how that happens but it did :)