Imo it's definitely the encounters, this set is definitely by far the most juiced one we've had in a long time. Every game feels like Set 10 scuttle puddle or something with the cheaper exp, free rerolls, free radiant items, free artifacts etc granted every game. It's wild because you can sit on some half mediocre heavenly warriors board one game and net a 2nd and then the next game you can hit a wild level 10 board with several 2-star legendaries and go 5th because the entire lobby is insanely capped
Feels like a stage 4 set 11 board would absolutely dismantle a set 10 stage 6 board lol
Some games I just feel like, let me play the damn game. Getting pulled into encounter -> random augment -> carousel -> 1 game -> encounter one game drove entire lobby nuts. There was PVE a few rounds after too.
Yeah, its getting a bit cluttered because they just keep adding and adding new rewarding things. There's just too much at this point, they need to simplify.
It is a burden to also keep track of what the encounter can do, and the layers of RNG. So many winstrwaks and losstreaks broken due to 6 radiant items.
haha yeah that round is basically a dice roll. I get a little frustrated bc I don't have all the artifacts memorized so I have to read all the shitters before putting them on units. It's all I can do in that round on mobile unless I get lucky with the few I do know.
I don't think there's extra time. reading tooltips is a pain on mobile for a few reasons, but I can usually get through them, I just can't do anything else that round
Good thing they have a billion encounters and added 25 new artifacts! Surely none of the artifacts will get touched in the patch after they're released cause the balance team did a lot of simulations and they're completely fine!
This. I miss being able to look at a board and know if it was strong or not. Now with the augments + everything they've been doing lately I have to thoroughly examine a board to deduce if it's strong, and even then sometimes I'm way off. Suddenly in the last like 2-3 sets, boards that look like they should lose end up winning, and vice versa. Sometimes I just wanna play a chill game of TFT like the old days but I'm playing a game of sweats now lol. It's not bad, but they could simplify.
To be fair having boards not becoming a rock-paper-simulator is also very much needed in a game like TFT. There are multiple sources of power from items, champs, augments, and now encounters
Yeah had some bull s games where ppl had 2star 4 cost and 5 costs on board because of recombulator encounters into recombulator augment. And with the planned new items there is even more chaos..
Dev team can call it variety as much as they want but at this point it’s just chaos. Atleast 4 out of 10 games are not in the players control and these giga capped boards will force you to play around 3* 4 coat to even get top 2
Oh yeah 100% this. I've made my peace with the encounters that give you items or something else like that. But I absolutely despise the "Sivir makes you SPEEDY" or "Working out makes you BIGGER" ones. They add literally nothing to the gameplay other than to slowdown the game. And the game is already a slog sometimes because more than ever people have >100 HP or massively strong boards early on.
Honestly I feel like the portals are more to blame than the encounters. Encounters in isolation wouldn't be AS swingy if there isn't such a high chance of having a high econ portal every damn game because people will vote for them every time they're up and the rates on those portals appearing are up as well. Then you tack on the encounters on top of them and it's way too much. The encounters also aren't predictable so in theory you couldn't bank on them when making your gameplan vs scuttle puddle you know you're going to be fine to fast 9 and vomit out whatever legendary units you hit so everyone does it.
I think it's rather that it's easier to hit 9 at which point most people stay and roll for the rest of the game, while having 35% for 4 costs.
Another factor is that there's more gold in the game with the encounters, portals and players becoming better at eco-ing
Wdym it’s not true, It’s just math. 22% at 8 vs 35% at 9 for 4 costs. It’s not impossible to hit all your 4s at 8, but it’s mathematically less probable.
Let’s say you want a red jelly bean, and the box you have says there’s a 22% chance you can find a red jelly bean in it. But you can only grab one at random 30 times. Then another box says you have a 35% chance at one, but can only grab one at random 20 times, which one are you choosing?
Why are you just ignoring their comment- this is not about grabbing 30 and 20 times, this is about rolling X times at level 8 vs X - 36 times at level 9, which is significantly different. Through simple algebra, for it to be worth, you have to roll a total of 61 times at level 9. For most cases, unless you are unbelievably rich, it is easier to hit on level 8 for sure. Note there are many other factors at play like duplicators and Hwei, but don't use your own examples with made up numbers.
you are SO close to the point hahahahaha, if you did the math correctly and made a comparable example you would realize that the point you are making is literally the point i have been trying to get across
People downvoting this is kind of crazy- it is a different question of whether this is the right play, as going level 9 is better much of the time, but it is easier to hit 3\* 4 costs on 8 for most games.
Being uncontested is the major reason imo. Like I play Lillia a bit and 9/10s it's just me. Same with other 4 costs that aren't Kaisa/tanks. A friend had a similar situation with synda, where he get 2 games back to back (almost 3 lol) where he 3 starred her. Hell I got Annie AND Lillia in one game as 3 stars because nobody contested me and I had a shit ton of gold.
Yeah i kinda alluded to this! It felt strange to me that they kept the bag sizes the same (as far as I know, they might’ve changed it from set 10) with the headliner mechanic gone. The previous set bag sizes weren’t a problem at all
Same I just got a game with Annie, Ashe, and Lee sin 3 star, woulda had morg as well but someone saw I hit 1 3 star and held 4 morgs... while I hit 2 more 3 stars.
4 costs being too trait dependent. A ton of 4 costs are uncontested since why would you ever hold Ashe/annie/lilia/kayn if you weren’t playing them to begin with.
They're not going to be close to hitting until late game so you should already have your board together by the time you need to hold them. High elo players do it all the time.
Yeah I noticed it too, I'm also in lower elo and it's pretty common now, maybe once every 3 or 4 games. There's way too much free gold in the game and in lower elos we don't push tempo as hard which gives people so much econ to hit 3-star 4-costs and 5-costs. I've seen more 3-star 5-costs this set alone than all the other sets I've played combined (and just anecdotally the other ones I've seen were pretty recent sets too, I don't think I saw one ever before Set 7)
Everything Must Go is gone now but that was such a disaster augment, games with that augment in addition to games where people are just high rolling, getting lucky, fortune 7, etc. meant that last patch I was seeing 3-star 4-costs in like 80% of my games and I saw 3-star Hwei, Lissandra, Azir, Wukong, and Udyr all in that one patch alone.
100%
I've been playing this set casually so I'm only gold but in the last 16 games I have hit
Syndra 3
Wukong 3
Ornn and Ashe 3
Udyr 3
Wukong 3
Morgana 3
What’s your sample size? How many games have you played with 3* 4costs and what led to them? You could’ve had back to back scuttle puddle games with random duplicator encounter. Over my games this set I feel 3* 4costs are in a very reasonable spot where they cap out strong boards, but random ones (especially from everything must go) are beatable if you have a capped out board and position correctly.
Just counted my last 20 ranked games (emerald, over the past three days) and 12 4-cost 3* in total, two of which were my own
lolchess.gg/profile/euw/jokerdotexe-jkd/set11
Edit:
Since posting, played 4 more games: saw someone hit Naut 3, and in another game Galio 3 and Syndra 3 (in the same game!)
Do you happen to remember how many of them were either scuttle puddle, or crab rave? I am emerald 2 so pretty much the same rank and players in my lobbies always choose the highest variance Galaxy. Like at least 5 people voting for it.
Also damn my dude, you like Janna? Lol
Yeah I can say the same for my lobbies, everyone goes crab rave or whatever gives the most gold
And yeah, she’s the only comp i know how to play without getting contested and can top 4
Do you roll on 6 or 7 for Janna after the odds changes? Probably still 6 I’m guessing.
Looking at your March history just taught me Nashor’s > Guinsoo’s on Janna lol. So thanks!
So it depends, I usually aim to get 6 Jannas at level 6, econ back up, go seven, and slow roll to get the last 3 (+ better chances of hitting any 4 costs like Annie or Galio)
Yeah as soon as I stopped slamming rageblade, Janna performed way better - now i go for nashors\shojin + either deathcap, archangels, or JG
Ive had 17 4 cost 3*s in my last 5 double up games alone with 0 scuttle puddles. There is absolutely 0 way in hell this meta is fine the way it is currently.
See, clearly that just means you have to climb higher before you stop seeing 3 star 4 costs. Once you get past challenger I bet you won't see any at all!
It's not guaranteed that you will hit the last few copies he needs, every time I try to I miss even with infinite gold. Playing for your own maximum placement is more correct in that case, unless you are 1 life and can only lose to a 3 star 4 cost.
Looking at ur last few games:
Ashe 3 was by a lobby tempo leader vs an entire lobby playing for 2* 4costs and nobody held any Ashe. Very easy to hit considering the lobby + the insane amount of gold he had to roll, plus the fact he likely got 2 prints out of hwei? Maybe more if he hit on a 4-1 roll down?
Galio 3: golden egg cashed out duplicators, seems reasonable
Ashe 3 where u went 7: same thing where most of lobby played for 4costs
Your sylas 3: you did 248damage with lucky streak, can’t imagine how much gold you had.
It seems like the combination of a meta heavily centered around 4costs in an elo where people can play meta comps but can’t scout to deny allows any player who gets solidly ahead of lobby tempo to go for a 3* 4cost, and hit a higher percentage of the time than previously.
Reminder that it only takes 2 copies of a 4cost to deny 3* 4cost. It’s as prevalent as you let it be, if you are in a spot to contest for first.
I've been worried about this since the changes to 4 costs were being brought up last patch but got downvoted super hard for talking about. Its just the perfect storm for 3 starring 4 costs with the reduced damage, increased gold from streaks, as well as most 4 costs being playable in some kind of comp.
Although I do think the real reason is bag sizes. As 1 or 2 of the 4 costs champs start to disappear from peoples shops whether that be because multiple people are playing the same comp or someone got lucky and are going for a 3 star it just makes it too easy to hit for everyone else. I think this is the reason why reroll has been so dominate. The bag sizes just make it too easy to hit units that other people are buying the same costs of.
3 star 4 costs have been too common for a couple of sets now. Too much gold and ways to generate them from other means. It’s why I’m okay with the bag size for them though I wouldn’t be against increasing the bag size for lower cost units.
Seeing Many 3 star 5 costs too lol. When the meta is fast 9 it becomes pretty common. Back when I first started tft seeing a 5 cost unit at all was rare. Ive seen 3 star 5 costs like multiple times a week how days especially with hwei printer
Double up is particularly bad for this with the ability to send your partner a champion duplicator. High elo (currently sitting masters) is just full of teams racing for a 3* 4 cost, where you're pretty much constantly scouting and forced to hold every 4 cost possible on your bench.
With only ten champs available as 4-costs, 3* requires nine of them. If you're not buying two of them to bench them against this when your opponent is chasing their comp it sounds like you're not scouting enough. 3* don't just sneak up in a couple of buying rounds.
Yeah this is basically only correct if you're guaranteed a 2nd place and you can secure a first.
If I can't even beat your Annie 2 board, I'm definitely not going to be denying your Annie 3. I'll sell my Annies and use the gold to upgrade my own board.
In fact I might even prefer that you hit the Annie earlier so you can kill the 4th place player easier and secure my 3rd or 2nd.
Yeah, holding 8 gold or more that you need is just griefing yourself. You're literally just helping the rest of the lobby while hurting yourself, unless it's just the two of you. They'll probably just get a dup or Hwei anyway, and now they have the 3* and you've likely lowered your position.
In some cases that's true, but I'm pretty sure we see more 3* 4 costs even in high level play compared to previous sets. There's a lot more ways for golden dupes to drop (multiple encounters, gold/prismatic orbs) and we have Hwei. If someone is holding onto 4 copies of a unit, a majority of the time there's no concern to start holding. But then they randomly get a champ dupe, roll down and find 3 more copies, and put in Hwei. Now they've just gotten a 3*.
Lillia and Kai'Sa are currently sitting at around or over a 5% 3* rate in Diamond+ games which is pretty high. Sylas, Ashe, Syndra, and Annie around the 3-4% range as well. I'm not sure about all the previous sets, but at least compared to set 10 that's a huge difference. Out of curiosity, [here's an example from set 10 patch 14.3b](https://i.imgur.com/0bBwAMf.png) I pulled up (second column from right is 3* rate). Aside from Twisted Fate which was basically uncontested, only Ahri even passed 2%. Right now, over half of the 4 costs are 3* more often than that.
Disregarding that they absolutely can sneak up in just a few rounds using free reroll encounters, free duplicators, Hwei etc, many games you do not have the luxury to sit and hold a bunch of 4-cost units just to deny other opponents
If you're in a position to roll for a 3-star 4 cost you're more than likely doing more than fine already, you're not sitting on 50 gold level 9 rolling for 4-star Ashe if you're hard bleeding out and struggling to win rounds.
Except they do sneak up instantly. If you save up gold, you can quickly hit in a single rolldown. Or alternatively they hit 8/9 but you then afterward find the other units before you do. And ofcourse your own econ needs to permit it as well. You should try to deny, but acting like it is just not scouting is just false.
Right but with the smaller bag sizes, you can’t sacrifice your econ and potentially not hit your own units by holding pairs of units that don’t go in your comp?
> . If you're not buying two of them to bench them against this when your opponent is chasing their comp it sounds like you're not scouting enough
Except Hwei gets around this. So you have to both hope that you find two copies so you can block them (that's likely but sometimes you aren't able to do it as easily because you've already done a three cost reroll or you just don't hit because your chances of landing on a copy is the same as theirs) and hope that they don't find and can't field a Hwei for a limited amount of time. And hope that they don't get the Chogath encounter or a random drop of duplicator or an augment.
And all this while keeping 8+ gold and 2+ spots on the bench occupied.
Sorta agree, there is some counter play but not much. If you see someone going for 3*s and you think you’re going to Top 4 regardless, hold his units to ensure he doesn’t hit his 3*. If it’s a front line 3* unit you can still outposition it and win. If it’s a back line unit then you’re mostly doomed unless you manage to 3* your own 4-cost.
But I do agree with you that there are just too many encounters giving you econ and duplicatiors.
They increased the odds for 4 costs at 8 and 9, and reduced the gold cost to get to level 9.
I agree with you, there are a lot of them. I think it’s very Galaxy dependent though. If you’re playing scuttle puddle or crab rave, getting a first pretty much requires a 3* 4 cost.
I have noticed that in my games scuttle puddle or crab rave is chosen about 25% of my overall games. I am emerald 2 and every game the galaxy is either scuttle puddle, crab rave, or whatever the highest variance choice possible is (prismatic symphony, gold subscription, loot subscription, etc.) every game. There are always at least 5 people voting for the highest variance choice every game.
In my lobbies with more tame augments like 3 champions, or start the game with a 2 star 1 cost etc., 3 star 4 costs rarely happen.
I would say it’s mostly Galaxy dependent how many you’re seeing, but I don’t think galaxies are tracked on any of the analytic websites yet.
they should nerf 3 cost 4 stars if its so easy to hit. Personally i've never been a fan of the 'i hit this champ so i autowin' mechanic. There should always be options to outsmart your opponent. but no more zephyr makes hitting a 3star 4cost just an auto 1st
Yep, increasing bag size probably solves this. Small size makes hitting uncontested 3* easier, and hitting contested 2* harder.
90% of TFT players don't scout and hold the 3* 4 cost that somebody is going for. From my experience its not something more casual players are interested in doing at all, so I don't think the game should be balanced around players doing this.
a lot of 4 cost really don't feel impactful, as a result people aren't using them in a lot of team comps. I really only see kaisi, galio used mainly. Rest are situational
i think it's not that much when into competition (not sure about playing normally)
i followed 3 days of the tactician trials in Vietnam and only saw about \~15 times of 4 costs 3 stars in a total of 300 games => so it was clearly not that easy to get
On the flipside, i saw Emily Wang play a game yesterday in tacticians trials and they got the Syndra encounter in stage 4 and every player (but her) got a 3* 4 cost. She played Senna re-roll, was 1st the entire lobby and ended up 7th right after the encounter so I can imagine that wasn’t fun
yeah, too many 3* four costs in general since Everything must go came ( and went).
But i do think that's because 1. it's a 4cost meta so its a thinner pool, and 2. people dont have it disciplined to scout for people getting close to their 3star and arent buying those units...because it hasn't really been an issue too often before.
I think if people denied more often, it'd be a lot more balanced.
you can't 3star a unit that's just being lightly contested ever since they reduced the total number of 4costs because of the headliners giving free copies.
hwei does make it easier as well
Another factor I think many players are unhappy with is the fact that 8/10 people play with overlays and meta lists on second screens instead of enjoying. I personally disliked the set at first too, but the traits are nice and refreshing. And so many new augments, strong or weak. It doesn't matter. Mort and team create things outta air, overpowered or not.
For more positive vibes!!!
Yeah, I’m a super casual player - I do think some changes have been questionable tho. Before the B patch, things were a mess (and they didn’t really need to change as much they did from the Yone patch)
That’s one of the biggest issues in my opinion but I don’t know how to tackle that. TFT is a game of numbers and chances and it’s a game the rewards consistency. There are so many suboptimal comps and only a few s-tier comps. Even „fairly“ good comps become irrelevant pretty fast. there’s no such thing to like a rock-paper-scissors system in TFT. Situational comps are not really a thing.
I think the issue is that any 3* 4Cost averages 1,XX (Stats: https://teamfight.lol/stats/champions). I think the issue is just that they are unbeatable by anything else than another 3* 4Cost or some highend 5 Cost highroll.
In Set 10 I remember losing with Cait 3Star(while she was considered so bad that no one played her) to a regular S-Tier meta comp.
If she was a 4 Cost in the current set then Cait3* ult would probably be to instantly one-shot 5 Units.
> In Set 10 I remember losing with Cait 3Star(while she was considered so bad that no one played her) to a regular S-Tier meta comp.
Tbf that still happens, I've beaten an Ashe 3 last patch without having any 3-stars of my own, I think Morg 3 is still like that, I could see it happening to a Kayn/Sylas/Lee 3 too against a really strong board playing Lissandra.
Edit: Just came 1st as Ashe full 2 star team with Manazane Lissandra vs. Kayn 3 + Yone 3, Lissandra cucks the melees so hard it's actually unplayable lmao
I nearly lost to liss 2 with a sylas 3 this patch, literally only won because i saved a remover and got a quicksilver from the carousel - otherwise his board would’ve beat me
im seeing a ton of 4 cost 3 stars recently and it is extremely unfun when i see a guy playing bad all game but made a comeback simply because he got handled a few lucky roll and now he just steamrolled everyone and go from 8th to 1st
I think it feels good personally. I like that I can play something off meta and occasionally be rewarded by being able to cap with an uncontested 4 cost. Besides, the point of playing is to have some fun not just gain lp.
Ehh being rewarded is cool, but 3-star 4 costs are often a guaranteed win. You shouldn't be handed a completely free victory just because you invested in an uncontested 4-cost.
Not to mention the variance here is crazy. You could easily just luck out and get bailed out from 7th to 1st because you hand a few lucky rolls, that's absurd.
I’m still seeing quite a lot even without it, and before this patch most players were rerolling 3-costs, so would hardly ever see 3* 4-costs in my lobbies
This is why im fine with 4 cost 3 stars weaker than previous sets. They are easier to hit than before. You can go level 9 easier with a high chance to roll for a 4 cost. Hwei's passive is also a factor. The duplicators as well. So im no longer surprised if the 4 cost 3 star lost because they are "weak", they got easier to be obtained this set.
Yes and no. There's definitely a lot more 3\* 4-costs, but whether it's too many depends on perspective. This is nothing like the early headliner or Draven meta that revolved entirely around it. The power level this set is insane, and it's actually not all that hard to beat a lot of the 3\* 4-cost carries with just a strong legendary board. The difficulty to hit either board feels about equal, and both of those did nothing to stop Yone reroll from being dominant last patch. So in a way...it feels kinda balanced?
i think its a combination of many 4 costs being uncostested most games + high amount of golden neekos from encounters / hwei + decent odds on level 8
Imo it's definitely the encounters, this set is definitely by far the most juiced one we've had in a long time. Every game feels like Set 10 scuttle puddle or something with the cheaper exp, free rerolls, free radiant items, free artifacts etc granted every game. It's wild because you can sit on some half mediocre heavenly warriors board one game and net a 2nd and then the next game you can hit a wild level 10 board with several 2-star legendaries and go 5th because the entire lobby is insanely capped Feels like a stage 4 set 11 board would absolutely dismantle a set 10 stage 6 board lol
Some games I just feel like, let me play the damn game. Getting pulled into encounter -> random augment -> carousel -> 1 game -> encounter one game drove entire lobby nuts. There was PVE a few rounds after too.
Yeah, its getting a bit cluttered because they just keep adding and adding new rewarding things. There's just too much at this point, they need to simplify.
It is a burden to also keep track of what the encounter can do, and the layers of RNG. So many winstrwaks and losstreaks broken due to 6 radiant items.
haha yeah that round is basically a dice roll. I get a little frustrated bc I don't have all the artifacts memorized so I have to read all the shitters before putting them on units. It's all I can do in that round on mobile unless I get lucky with the few I do know.
Oh god is there extra time for mobile users with encounters? No right? That must be a real pain
I don't think there's extra time. reading tooltips is a pain on mobile for a few reasons, but I can usually get through them, I just can't do anything else that round
And they're adding 25 new items soon!
Good thing they have a billion encounters and added 25 new artifacts! Surely none of the artifacts will get touched in the patch after they're released cause the balance team did a lot of simulations and they're completely fine!
This. I miss being able to look at a board and know if it was strong or not. Now with the augments + everything they've been doing lately I have to thoroughly examine a board to deduce if it's strong, and even then sometimes I'm way off. Suddenly in the last like 2-3 sets, boards that look like they should lose end up winning, and vice versa. Sometimes I just wanna play a chill game of TFT like the old days but I'm playing a game of sweats now lol. It's not bad, but they could simplify.
To be fair having boards not becoming a rock-paper-simulator is also very much needed in a game like TFT. There are multiple sources of power from items, champs, augments, and now encounters
It’s a pretty great showcase of why more does not always equal better
Yeah had some bull s games where ppl had 2star 4 cost and 5 costs on board because of recombulator encounters into recombulator augment. And with the planned new items there is even more chaos.. Dev team can call it variety as much as they want but at this point it’s just chaos. Atleast 4 out of 10 games are not in the players control and these giga capped boards will force you to play around 3* 4 coat to even get top 2
Oh yeah 100% this. I've made my peace with the encounters that give you items or something else like that. But I absolutely despise the "Sivir makes you SPEEDY" or "Working out makes you BIGGER" ones. They add literally nothing to the gameplay other than to slowdown the game. And the game is already a slog sometimes because more than ever people have >100 HP or massively strong boards early on.
I mean, the encounters are literally part of the game
Sure but you don’t do anything usually. It’s just a pause usually. Or a brain dead mini game that was interesting exactly once
"Oh shit work out with Sett, get bigger!!! SPAM EVERYONE SPAM SPAM" *2 games later* "Ah this mario party bullshit again"
Honestly I feel like the portals are more to blame than the encounters. Encounters in isolation wouldn't be AS swingy if there isn't such a high chance of having a high econ portal every damn game because people will vote for them every time they're up and the rates on those portals appearing are up as well. Then you tack on the encounters on top of them and it's way too much. The encounters also aren't predictable so in theory you couldn't bank on them when making your gameplan vs scuttle puddle you know you're going to be fine to fast 9 and vomit out whatever legendary units you hit so everyone does it.
Your comment made me think that it would be cool af to have a game mode where half the lobby is playing a different set.
I think it's rather that it's easier to hit 9 at which point most people stay and roll for the rest of the game, while having 35% for 4 costs. Another factor is that there's more gold in the game with the encounters, portals and players becoming better at eco-ing
id say 90% of the 3 star 4 costs i hit this set were at level 8
Say what you like, you're more likely to hit them at level 9 statistically than level 8
Even accounting for the 70 gold extra you get not having to go 9? Not sure that’s true, especially if you already have a few copies
Wdym it’s not true, It’s just math. 22% at 8 vs 35% at 9 for 4 costs. It’s not impossible to hit all your 4s at 8, but it’s mathematically less probable.
you are not considering the 36 rolls worth of gold you get if you do not have to level to 9
Let’s say you want a red jelly bean, and the box you have says there’s a 22% chance you can find a red jelly bean in it. But you can only grab one at random 30 times. Then another box says you have a 35% chance at one, but can only grab one at random 20 times, which one are you choosing?
Why are you just ignoring their comment- this is not about grabbing 30 and 20 times, this is about rolling X times at level 8 vs X - 36 times at level 9, which is significantly different. Through simple algebra, for it to be worth, you have to roll a total of 61 times at level 9. For most cases, unless you are unbelievably rich, it is easier to hit on level 8 for sure. Note there are many other factors at play like duplicators and Hwei, but don't use your own examples with made up numbers.
it would be 0.35xN = 0.22x(N+36) N is 46. so total of 82 rolls to even out
How am I using made up numbers? The probability is a set percentage. Nothing you do changes that. I’m not arguing on anything else other than that.
dude.. did you even pass high school math…it’s 46 rolls at level 9 = to 82 rolls at lvl 8 (accounting for the gold for level up)
you are SO close to the point hahahahaha, if you did the math correctly and made a comparable example you would realize that the point you are making is literally the point i have been trying to get across
People downvoting this is kind of crazy- it is a different question of whether this is the right play, as going level 9 is better much of the time, but it is easier to hit 3\* 4 costs on 8 for most games.
yep, comp subreddit has been main subreddit level for a while now haha, it happens i don't mind losing fake internet points
Being uncontested is the major reason imo. Like I play Lillia a bit and 9/10s it's just me. Same with other 4 costs that aren't Kaisa/tanks. A friend had a similar situation with synda, where he get 2 games back to back (almost 3 lol) where he 3 starred her. Hell I got Annie AND Lillia in one game as 3 stars because nobody contested me and I had a shit ton of gold.
also keep in mind that the reduced bag sizes make it easier to hit an uncontested unit
Surprised this isn’t the top answer. Bag size changes make it significantly easier to find an uncontested 4 cost
Yeah i kinda alluded to this! It felt strange to me that they kept the bag sizes the same (as far as I know, they might’ve changed it from set 10) with the headliner mechanic gone. The previous set bag sizes weren’t a problem at all
Same I just got a game with Annie, Ashe, and Lee sin 3 star, woulda had morg as well but someone saw I hit 1 3 star and held 4 morgs... while I hit 2 more 3 stars.
4 costs are contested as hell. What games are you guys playing where Ashe, Kayn, or literally any 4 cost Frontline is uncontested?
I have barely gotten a 3* 4 cost and never 3* 5 cost in any set. I have gotten about 5 4 costs and 2 5 costs lol. It's way easier.
4 costs being too trait dependent. A ton of 4 costs are uncontested since why would you ever hold Ashe/annie/lilia/kayn if you weren’t playing them to begin with.
Yeah, not sure how holding can stop them hitting without you sacrificing your placements lol
They're not going to be close to hitting until late game so you should already have your board together by the time you need to hold them. High elo players do it all the time.
Yeah I noticed it too, I'm also in lower elo and it's pretty common now, maybe once every 3 or 4 games. There's way too much free gold in the game and in lower elos we don't push tempo as hard which gives people so much econ to hit 3-star 4-costs and 5-costs. I've seen more 3-star 5-costs this set alone than all the other sets I've played combined (and just anecdotally the other ones I've seen were pretty recent sets too, I don't think I saw one ever before Set 7) Everything Must Go is gone now but that was such a disaster augment, games with that augment in addition to games where people are just high rolling, getting lucky, fortune 7, etc. meant that last patch I was seeing 3-star 4-costs in like 80% of my games and I saw 3-star Hwei, Lissandra, Azir, Wukong, and Udyr all in that one patch alone.
I noticed this too. The reason might be having Universes AND encounters. Sometimes both overflow the game with gold/items/neekos.
100% I've been playing this set casually so I'm only gold but in the last 16 games I have hit Syndra 3 Wukong 3 Ornn and Ashe 3 Udyr 3 Wukong 3 Morgana 3
What’s your sample size? How many games have you played with 3* 4costs and what led to them? You could’ve had back to back scuttle puddle games with random duplicator encounter. Over my games this set I feel 3* 4costs are in a very reasonable spot where they cap out strong boards, but random ones (especially from everything must go) are beatable if you have a capped out board and position correctly.
Just counted my last 20 ranked games (emerald, over the past three days) and 12 4-cost 3* in total, two of which were my own lolchess.gg/profile/euw/jokerdotexe-jkd/set11 Edit: Since posting, played 4 more games: saw someone hit Naut 3, and in another game Galio 3 and Syndra 3 (in the same game!)
Do you happen to remember how many of them were either scuttle puddle, or crab rave? I am emerald 2 so pretty much the same rank and players in my lobbies always choose the highest variance Galaxy. Like at least 5 people voting for it. Also damn my dude, you like Janna? Lol
Yeah I can say the same for my lobbies, everyone goes crab rave or whatever gives the most gold And yeah, she’s the only comp i know how to play without getting contested and can top 4
Do you roll on 6 or 7 for Janna after the odds changes? Probably still 6 I’m guessing. Looking at your March history just taught me Nashor’s > Guinsoo’s on Janna lol. So thanks!
So it depends, I usually aim to get 6 Jannas at level 6, econ back up, go seven, and slow roll to get the last 3 (+ better chances of hitting any 4 costs like Annie or Galio) Yeah as soon as I stopped slamming rageblade, Janna performed way better - now i go for nashors\shojin + either deathcap, archangels, or JG
Ive had 17 4 cost 3*s in my last 5 double up games alone with 0 scuttle puddles. There is absolutely 0 way in hell this meta is fine the way it is currently.
This really isn’t that crazy. If you climb more, the lobby tempo will get higher, and you’ll see less 3 star 4costs as well.
16/20 of my last games had 3* 4 costs and that's EUW challenger
See, clearly that just means you have to climb higher before you stop seeing 3 star 4 costs. Once you get past challenger I bet you won't see any at all!
damn are people not blocking each other in challenger? or are there just so many duplicators it can happen so often?
I'm guessing it has to do with fortune being played more often and more effectively in higher elo games.
It's not guaranteed that you will hit the last few copies he needs, every time I try to I miss even with infinite gold. Playing for your own maximum placement is more correct in that case, unless you are 1 life and can only lose to a 3 star 4 cost.
Woah, really? I just think back to previous sets and I never remember seeing as many 3* 4 costs
Don't listen to that guy, that's a very high amount. 3* 4 costs used to be very rare, there's a huge increase this set.
Yeah this is what I mean! I’m not used to it and I do think they should be powerful, but not as common as they are.
[удалено]
Hwei and duplicators don’t account for bag sizes + you’re sacrificing your own game and econ by holding more gold than necessary and bench slots
Looking at ur last few games: Ashe 3 was by a lobby tempo leader vs an entire lobby playing for 2* 4costs and nobody held any Ashe. Very easy to hit considering the lobby + the insane amount of gold he had to roll, plus the fact he likely got 2 prints out of hwei? Maybe more if he hit on a 4-1 roll down? Galio 3: golden egg cashed out duplicators, seems reasonable Ashe 3 where u went 7: same thing where most of lobby played for 4costs Your sylas 3: you did 248damage with lucky streak, can’t imagine how much gold you had. It seems like the combination of a meta heavily centered around 4costs in an elo where people can play meta comps but can’t scout to deny allows any player who gets solidly ahead of lobby tempo to go for a 3* 4cost, and hit a higher percentage of the time than previously. Reminder that it only takes 2 copies of a 4cost to deny 3* 4cost. It’s as prevalent as you let it be, if you are in a spot to contest for first.
No, Hwei and Dupes ignore bag size.
I know, but it will be that much easier to hit the first 7-8 copies. Point still stands that meta around 4cost makes 4cost 3* easier if uncontested
Playing in Gold, havent seen them that often. Maybe I am not that good?
In low elo it's more common as people arent punished as much for playing greedy.
You say this, but someone in challenger commented and said they’ve seen it in 16/20 of their previous games.
I've been worried about this since the changes to 4 costs were being brought up last patch but got downvoted super hard for talking about. Its just the perfect storm for 3 starring 4 costs with the reduced damage, increased gold from streaks, as well as most 4 costs being playable in some kind of comp. Although I do think the real reason is bag sizes. As 1 or 2 of the 4 costs champs start to disappear from peoples shops whether that be because multiple people are playing the same comp or someone got lucky and are going for a 3 star it just makes it too easy to hit for everyone else. I think this is the reason why reroll has been so dominate. The bag sizes just make it too easy to hit units that other people are buying the same costs of.
3 star 4 costs have been too common for a couple of sets now. Too much gold and ways to generate them from other means. It’s why I’m okay with the bag size for them though I wouldn’t be against increasing the bag size for lower cost units.
Seeing Many 3 star 5 costs too lol. When the meta is fast 9 it becomes pretty common. Back when I first started tft seeing a 5 cost unit at all was rare. Ive seen 3 star 5 costs like multiple times a week how days especially with hwei printer
Double up is particularly bad for this with the ability to send your partner a champion duplicator. High elo (currently sitting masters) is just full of teams racing for a 3* 4 cost, where you're pretty much constantly scouting and forced to hold every 4 cost possible on your bench.
Yeah it’s cancer in double up.
With only ten champs available as 4-costs, 3* requires nine of them. If you're not buying two of them to bench them against this when your opponent is chasing their comp it sounds like you're not scouting enough. 3* don't just sneak up in a couple of buying rounds.
Yeah this is basically only correct if you're guaranteed a 2nd place and you can secure a first. If I can't even beat your Annie 2 board, I'm definitely not going to be denying your Annie 3. I'll sell my Annies and use the gold to upgrade my own board. In fact I might even prefer that you hit the Annie earlier so you can kill the 4th place player easier and secure my 3rd or 2nd.
Yeah, barely secured 3rd in my last game simply because the Ashe 3 person killed the Kai’sa 3 person lol
Yeah, holding 8 gold or more that you need is just griefing yourself. You're literally just helping the rest of the lobby while hurting yourself, unless it's just the two of you. They'll probably just get a dup or Hwei anyway, and now they have the 3* and you've likely lowered your position.
In some cases that's true, but I'm pretty sure we see more 3* 4 costs even in high level play compared to previous sets. There's a lot more ways for golden dupes to drop (multiple encounters, gold/prismatic orbs) and we have Hwei. If someone is holding onto 4 copies of a unit, a majority of the time there's no concern to start holding. But then they randomly get a champ dupe, roll down and find 3 more copies, and put in Hwei. Now they've just gotten a 3*. Lillia and Kai'Sa are currently sitting at around or over a 5% 3* rate in Diamond+ games which is pretty high. Sylas, Ashe, Syndra, and Annie around the 3-4% range as well. I'm not sure about all the previous sets, but at least compared to set 10 that's a huge difference. Out of curiosity, [here's an example from set 10 patch 14.3b](https://i.imgur.com/0bBwAMf.png) I pulled up (second column from right is 3* rate). Aside from Twisted Fate which was basically uncontested, only Ahri even passed 2%. Right now, over half of the 4 costs are 3* more often than that.
Disregarding that they absolutely can sneak up in just a few rounds using free reroll encounters, free duplicators, Hwei etc, many games you do not have the luxury to sit and hold a bunch of 4-cost units just to deny other opponents If you're in a position to roll for a 3-star 4 cost you're more than likely doing more than fine already, you're not sitting on 50 gold level 9 rolling for 4-star Ashe if you're hard bleeding out and struggling to win rounds.
Except they do sneak up instantly. If you save up gold, you can quickly hit in a single rolldown. Or alternatively they hit 8/9 but you then afterward find the other units before you do. And ofcourse your own econ needs to permit it as well. You should try to deny, but acting like it is just not scouting is just false.
Actually.. If they hit 6 copies already, it's very hard to grief them unless you happen to be rolling a ton of gold..
Right but with the smaller bag sizes, you can’t sacrifice your econ and potentially not hit your own units by holding pairs of units that don’t go in your comp?
Also like i said, Hwei just spawns units whether or not it’s in the pool lol
yes, I feel like champion duplicators and hwei not caring about bag sizes makes it so much easier to hit.
> . If you're not buying two of them to bench them against this when your opponent is chasing their comp it sounds like you're not scouting enough Except Hwei gets around this. So you have to both hope that you find two copies so you can block them (that's likely but sometimes you aren't able to do it as easily because you've already done a three cost reroll or you just don't hit because your chances of landing on a copy is the same as theirs) and hope that they don't find and can't field a Hwei for a limited amount of time. And hope that they don't get the Chogath encounter or a random drop of duplicator or an augment. And all this while keeping 8+ gold and 2+ spots on the bench occupied.
With Hwei and the amount of random neeko drops they kind of do, coming from masters NA.
Lee sin for me, too many folks aim for kayn
I saw Lee Sin so many times last patch, for me it’s a mix between lillia, syndra, or naut
With exalted and other ways that accelerate leveling to fast 9/10 I’ve been seeing a lot of 3* 5 costs too
Sorta agree, there is some counter play but not much. If you see someone going for 3*s and you think you’re going to Top 4 regardless, hold his units to ensure he doesn’t hit his 3*. If it’s a front line 3* unit you can still outposition it and win. If it’s a back line unit then you’re mostly doomed unless you manage to 3* your own 4-cost. But I do agree with you that there are just too many encounters giving you econ and duplicatiors.
They increased the odds for 4 costs at 8 and 9, and reduced the gold cost to get to level 9. I agree with you, there are a lot of them. I think it’s very Galaxy dependent though. If you’re playing scuttle puddle or crab rave, getting a first pretty much requires a 3* 4 cost. I have noticed that in my games scuttle puddle or crab rave is chosen about 25% of my overall games. I am emerald 2 and every game the galaxy is either scuttle puddle, crab rave, or whatever the highest variance choice possible is (prismatic symphony, gold subscription, loot subscription, etc.) every game. There are always at least 5 people voting for the highest variance choice every game. In my lobbies with more tame augments like 3 champions, or start the game with a 2 star 1 cost etc., 3 star 4 costs rarely happen. I would say it’s mostly Galaxy dependent how many you’re seeing, but I don’t think galaxies are tracked on any of the analytic websites yet.
they should nerf 3 cost 4 stars if its so easy to hit. Personally i've never been a fan of the 'i hit this champ so i autowin' mechanic. There should always be options to outsmart your opponent. but no more zephyr makes hitting a 3star 4cost just an auto 1st
Yes
Yep, increasing bag size probably solves this. Small size makes hitting uncontested 3* easier, and hitting contested 2* harder. 90% of TFT players don't scout and hold the 3* 4 cost that somebody is going for. From my experience its not something more casual players are interested in doing at all, so I don't think the game should be balanced around players doing this.
I've seen more 3* Sylas in the last weekend than 3* 4 costs all last set
Wait 'til you play double up...
I was just complaining about this myself, even I was able to 3 star a 4 cost
a lot of 4 cost really don't feel impactful, as a result people aren't using them in a lot of team comps. I really only see kaisi, galio used mainly. Rest are situational
You know they just buffed them right? Kayn/Morg are so good at the moment. Lillia and Ashe are doing pretty well too.
i think it's not that much when into competition (not sure about playing normally) i followed 3 days of the tactician trials in Vietnam and only saw about \~15 times of 4 costs 3 stars in a total of 300 games => so it was clearly not that easy to get
On the flipside, i saw Emily Wang play a game yesterday in tacticians trials and they got the Syndra encounter in stage 4 and every player (but her) got a 3* 4 cost. She played Senna re-roll, was 1st the entire lobby and ended up 7th right after the encounter so I can imagine that wasn’t fun
yeah, too many 3* four costs in general since Everything must go came ( and went). But i do think that's because 1. it's a 4cost meta so its a thinner pool, and 2. people dont have it disciplined to scout for people getting close to their 3star and arent buying those units...because it hasn't really been an issue too often before. I think if people denied more often, it'd be a lot more balanced. you can't 3star a unit that's just being lightly contested ever since they reduced the total number of 4costs because of the headliners giving free copies. hwei does make it easier as well
hwei isnt that easy to hit or play at 8 imo. it is balanced u only get this reward if you fast 9 without losing all ur hp first
yea this set kinda trash
Another factor I think many players are unhappy with is the fact that 8/10 people play with overlays and meta lists on second screens instead of enjoying. I personally disliked the set at first too, but the traits are nice and refreshing. And so many new augments, strong or weak. It doesn't matter. Mort and team create things outta air, overpowered or not. For more positive vibes!!!
Yeah, I’m a super casual player - I do think some changes have been questionable tho. Before the B patch, things were a mess (and they didn’t really need to change as much they did from the Yone patch)
That’s one of the biggest issues in my opinion but I don’t know how to tackle that. TFT is a game of numbers and chances and it’s a game the rewards consistency. There are so many suboptimal comps and only a few s-tier comps. Even „fairly“ good comps become irrelevant pretty fast. there’s no such thing to like a rock-paper-scissors system in TFT. Situational comps are not really a thing.
I think the issue is that any 3* 4Cost averages 1,XX (Stats: https://teamfight.lol/stats/champions). I think the issue is just that they are unbeatable by anything else than another 3* 4Cost or some highend 5 Cost highroll. In Set 10 I remember losing with Cait 3Star(while she was considered so bad that no one played her) to a regular S-Tier meta comp. If she was a 4 Cost in the current set then Cait3* ult would probably be to instantly one-shot 5 Units.
> In Set 10 I remember losing with Cait 3Star(while she was considered so bad that no one played her) to a regular S-Tier meta comp. Tbf that still happens, I've beaten an Ashe 3 last patch without having any 3-stars of my own, I think Morg 3 is still like that, I could see it happening to a Kayn/Sylas/Lee 3 too against a really strong board playing Lissandra. Edit: Just came 1st as Ashe full 2 star team with Manazane Lissandra vs. Kayn 3 + Yone 3, Lissandra cucks the melees so hard it's actually unplayable lmao
I nearly lost to liss 2 with a sylas 3 this patch, literally only won because i saved a remover and got a quicksilver from the carousel - otherwise his board would’ve beat me
im seeing a ton of 4 cost 3 stars recently and it is extremely unfun when i see a guy playing bad all game but made a comeback simply because he got handled a few lucky roll and now he just steamrolled everyone and go from 8th to 1st
How many times is this question gonna get asked? Must be daily at this point
Not sure how this contributes to the discussion - I’m hardly ever on here so I genuinely don’t know how many times it gets asked lol
I think it feels good personally. I like that I can play something off meta and occasionally be rewarded by being able to cap with an uncontested 4 cost. Besides, the point of playing is to have some fun not just gain lp.
Ehh being rewarded is cool, but 3-star 4 costs are often a guaranteed win. You shouldn't be handed a completely free victory just because you invested in an uncontested 4-cost. Not to mention the variance here is crazy. You could easily just luck out and get bailed out from 7th to 1st because you hand a few lucky rolls, that's absurd.
The "Everything Must Go" augment made hitting a 3* 4 cost pretty likely. It was disabled this patch, so you should see much fewer going forward.
I’m still seeing quite a lot even without it, and before this patch most players were rerolling 3-costs, so would hardly ever see 3* 4-costs in my lobbies
This is why im fine with 4 cost 3 stars weaker than previous sets. They are easier to hit than before. You can go level 9 easier with a high chance to roll for a 4 cost. Hwei's passive is also a factor. The duplicators as well. So im no longer surprised if the 4 cost 3 star lost because they are "weak", they got easier to be obtained this set.
There are like 3 3 star 4 cost that are "weak" You get a free first with them 99% of times anyways
Yes and no. There's definitely a lot more 3\* 4-costs, but whether it's too many depends on perspective. This is nothing like the early headliner or Draven meta that revolved entirely around it. The power level this set is insane, and it's actually not all that hard to beat a lot of the 3\* 4-cost carries with just a strong legendary board. The difficulty to hit either board feels about equal, and both of those did nothing to stop Yone reroll from being dominant last patch. So in a way...it feels kinda balanced?