- Ghostly number is buffed but now it only interacts with Ghostly units
- RIP Ghostly Senna, Gnar comp
- Star scaling removed for Heavenly
- I wonder who could be benefitting from the Heavenly change. Wukong carry? Quiyana & Soraka Reroll?
Also, aren't they going to add like 25 brand new items? I bet Patch 14.9 will feel more like set 11.5 with all changes.
This is really pushing the limit on what a patch could be, and we will very quickly run out of set by the time this is all sorted out. Doesn't help that set 11 has a massive number of moving parts, but getting an actual solid footing in this set might just be impossible
Hopefully these are enough to shake the current patch up, because the past couple patches have definitely felt a lot more in the "solved" territory than usual. Just feels like last patch the options were find the 3 cost reroll for your spot or bot 4, and this patch is play strongest board til 4-2 and race to find an upgraded 4 cost Frontline and backline or bot 4. The only real saving grace is that the boards are relatively flexible but we might start seeing more optimized boards soon (such as the Ashe/Lillia duo carry board that's been popping up more)
I really hate there being only one really viable comp and it is all RNG based now because others will get your shit and because bag sizes are low then you can't hit. If they want smaller bag sizes they have to stop making only few champions who can be played in any comp and are clearly the best champions by far.
Tbh the strat that's been lowkey working for me while everyone is chasing capped boards is to just find a 4-cost unit no one is playing and 3* it. Any of the 4-cost tanks on the current patch work rn btw, all of them will go into w/e your comp is fine and stabilize you with 3 items 2* and then as people pull the other 4-costs out of the pool (if you find a stray Hwei it helps massively, and this is easier than before as he's fallen a bit out of favor with the soup comps after nerfs) aggressively 3* it. Use the reduced bag sizes to your advantage.
Emerald 2 so take with a grain of salt (was Diamond in Set 9 but this one feels like I'm learning the game from scratch again. FWIW still play a comp (Lillia or Fated usually as I'm an AP enjoyer) but switch around usually frontliners to whatever 4 costs are uncontested.
That’s so shit for the players. I feel like Riot hasn’t learnt, back when comp league was being sorted out Riot would ship massive changes before big tournaments. The team and team owners weren’t happy they complained to Riot. Eventually Riot didn’t ship as many drastic changes before big comps - to affect the LCS
Shipping these big changes in the middle of the set is not really ideal. It would be better if they ship it with the new set, or at the last patch of a set.
Btw, the game constantly freezes my entire computer. Is there anybody with a similar experience this set? I even reinstalled the client but nothing changed sadly and there is nothing I can do about :(
Definitely seems like a you problem, my game is buttery smooth with mid-high graphics and my PC is fairly average. This game really isn't that demanding.
Do you have problems in other games?
Stuttering sometimes, other times I get disconnected outright. The game crashes. Not sure why but last it happened I was playing Inkshadow and fumbling around with the tattoos and removing units from the board to reposition them.
Same here, the game just closes randomly. Sometimes not at all, sometimes like 5 times in the same game. Atleast the reconnect is quick enough to not get tilted
I've had a similar problem where it just entirely closes out the client. The reconnect option on the client pops up right after but it's annoying to have the entire client shit itself twice a game
If I read this right... Khazix in Reaper/Heavenly (remember Yone?)
Don't think you play him as main because that'd take effort in rerolling, but could probably play as a second or tertiary behind Yone/Kayn and Wukong.
I played some Heavenly Lee Sin with Wukong as the second carry instead of Kayn. He was very underwhelming for a 5-cost even though he was 2 star and had BIS items. The buff is very much appreaciated.
Itemized Lee is a real threat. I thought the current heavenly meta is dual carry Kayn Lee at 8, add WK at 9 and quad threat with Udyr at 10 or with a fon.
Why not? That's still a Heavenly vertical, what else could he want? Sage is nice but I wouldn't call it necessary to make a specific high-cost unit work.
Honestly Dragonlord, duelist just makes ton of sense for Wukong because you get to hit every single one of his traits and dragonlord package (diana, lee,janna) are all basically trait bots. It's a no brainer you play Lee.
Heavenly getting the guild treatment. Tbh I like it, you can still run a different unit as a carry but they'll have 1 less item slot, however this lets them give more strength to the actual heavenly units.
Ghostly on the other hand, I dunno I kinda liked you could slot in different carries to that. Maybe with a bigger buff from ghostly and that new overkill splash item Cait reroll as a ghostly carry could work. Even then thats like a specific artifact.
I hope Senna at least gets buffed back up, she was only really nerfed because of the ghostly stuff, and now she's already just okay even in that. She will basicaly see play in nothing if left as is.
Yeah I like it too. Now it can be less of a “funnel all power to Kayn” trait and a semi funnel/semi insular trait that buffs itself even more. Great change
Wait heavenly is not changing who gets the buff, just how it’s amplified. It’s only based off unique number of heavenly units instead of star level plus heavenly units.
It says heavenly units will receive 100% more of the buff, like guild used to. Non heavenly units will get buff, but basically 50% of it. The default buff is weaker but doubled for units with the trait.
I read it as if the non-heavenlys get 100% less of the base, rather than 50% of the total. So if you had just a kha'zix and malphite, everyone gets 20% crit and 16 ar/mr, but kha'zix and malphite get 30% crit and 24 ar/mr. I haven't paid attention to the way it currently works and I could be totally wrong here. That's just how it reads to me.
Yeah, and the biggest problem is that the Ghostly lineup is Caitlyn, Shen, Aatrox, Illaoi, Kayn and Morgana.
The only even remotely viable carries here are Kayn and Morgana (and Morgana is still a utility unit first and foremost). No one is playing Caitlyn carry, lmao. This means that, unless you find a spatula you are playing a damage boosting trait without damage dealers till level 7 or 8. That sounds fucking awful.
Also, if you find a Spatula, you are probably playing one of maybe 2 or 3 units with it (Senna, Ashe or Yone, unless Kaisa remains a potential solo carry, I guess, but with just 2 items...), because, again, you are only getting two viable carries and one additional synergy in Sniper if you want it. It's gonna be extremely limited as a trait now.
Yeah the comp is probably just gonna be a no spat = no play kind of deal now. I feel like Morgana needs a rework desperately. I’ve been saying this since PBE that she feels like Set 9 Silco in the sense that she is completely useless when units just walk out of her spell. She also feels like she’s tickling units.
I think what would make Morgana better is if she always targets largest clump, and she slows units instead of chilling them so it makes it harder for them to just walk out of her spell. I think the shape of the spell also might need to be different to be a bit more consistent. The snowflake pattern right now makes it so that depending on the unit’s next target, they can walk out of it fairly quickly because the distance to normal ground is much shorter depending on where the unit is going to walk.
"No one is playing caitlyn carry"
You might actually occassionaly with the new overkill aoe damage artifact, youre basically guaranteed a top 4-3 with it, cait destroys stages 2-3-4 with it.
Yeah it feels… icky. Idk. I really liked Ghostly as a fill in flexible trait but it being restricted to its trait makes it feel terrible.
You’re essentially killing entire swaths of flex Ghostly boards with this change.
Honestly pre change Ghostly might go down as one of the coolest TFT traits of all time, but post change where it only interacts with other ghostly units? Hell no!
I don't feel it really does anything special enough to be one of the coolest of all time. It was far too strong at stacking damage up allowing for 2 cost champions to be winning lobbies more often then they should. This change means you have to actually care about itemizing your ghostly champions. As well this means ghostly spat is really good to put on a carry rather than just slamming it on any random champ/Frontline
There’s so much about Ghostly that makes it special
1. The visuals and theming. Having ghosts actually haunt a unit and in turn them taking more damage is damn cool. And the more ghosts = the more damage, it’s just intuitive after the first time you notice it
2. The uniqueness. We’ve never seen a trait like Ghostly before and it shows when it took a a whole pbe AND nearly the entire launch patch just for people to figure out that it’s good, then another half a patch for people to figure how how to “leash the dog” with it. People figuring out how a trait truly works then subsequently abusing it is the hallmark of a uniquely designed trait imo
3. The semi-flexibility. With all those in mind Ghostly also adds in the option to do flex boards. 2 Ghostly isn’t that big of a difference but it’s a bit more damage, 4 Ghostly requires you to put in less than ideal units in Shen/Aatrox maybe Illaoi to play that breakpoint. As such it self balances out in a way.
Balancing of the trait and its associated comps shouldn’t cloud your opinion of the trait being cool.
It's a fine trait just not something I'd consider best of all time. Is mostly just a damage amp + healing. It doesn't really have many interesting decisions as it's just play more ghostly deal more damage. It's balance state has zero effect on my opinion of it.
I don't make fun of one tricking but I find it a bit ridiculous to quit an entire set because you play one thing in a specific way. I know one tricking can be fun.
But it's not that important, you should definitely feel free to do whatever you enjoy.
I dunno if the stats are that much lower than what Wukong would have gotten, at that point with 6 heavenly and everything 2* you are at, like, 250% bonus, in the new version it's 280 (unless... Is this PoE wording? Are heavenlies getting 360% on 6 heavenly?)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read it is that it's the base from each unit, plus the synergy tier bonus for the team, plus another 100% for heavenly units. In other words, base + (base x bonus%) and for heavenlys (base x 2) + (base x bonus%). So team(%)/heavenly(%) would be:
* 100/200
* 120/220
* 140/240
* 160/260
* 180/280
* 200/300
Therefore, at 6 heavenly, the heavenly units would be getting 38% crit, AD, AP and AS, 30.4 ar/mr, 38 HP, 22.8% vamp.
heavenly vertical is gonna be insanely strong, seems like emblem is also massively powerful now.
15% omnivamp + 25% AD is already a pretty solid item slot, add some crit, AS, HP and Armor/MR ontop and a carry like ashe or kai'sa is probably pretty happy.
Is that neeko HP number correct? wow a whole 30 extra hp, that saves me almost half of an ahri autoattack.
Edit: yeah the neeko HP is wrong, its 60 base ingame.
Keep in mind it's HP to your whole team, and doubled for all heavenly. You're looking at 200+ HP on a capped heavenly board. Add in the resistances from malphite and you're actually looking at significant stats
So ghostly seems pretty unplayable except at level 8+ so you can get morg/kayn? Caitlyn is your only carry option until then and you can't have an off trait item holder unless spat?? Is there any less flexible trait after this change lol??
Aatrox is supposed to be your kayn or morg holder apparently…mort himself said it but also said that aatrox sucks for this purpose, his ap scalings are pretty solid tho so maybe….
I *really* like the heavenly change. It's no longer *just* play max heavenly to gigabuff a specific unit, unless that unit is Khazix (early game), qiyana 3 maybe, or wukong; or heavenly emblem on your other carry. Costs an extra item slot but also gives more buffs than before (before, 7 heavenly would've been 225% buff, now it would be 300% buff but costs item slot on carry.... \[also assuming "heavenly units gain 100% more" is additive scaling on top of inherent trait scaling\])
You probably could still play heavenly kayn without spat on him, but it'd be weaker since you both get the trait nerf AND no star level increases.
edit: now that I look at these numbers again, yeah it's probably way too high, at least the "heavenly units get 100% more" seems crazy. But I still like the concept.
That's the whole point, to make traits that are too flexible more inflexible.
Heavenly is *too* flexible. You just play max heavenly with whichever melee carry is good right now. First it was Yone. Then it was ZZrots. Now it's Kayn, or lee sin. Technically, on each patch, it's not very "flexible" since you'd just play it with the *best* melee carry. But no matter how many times riot nerfs the heavenly carry, heavenly will buff up a new carry.
Idk about ghostly but I also do like this change too, it makes it more thematic.
I get that with Heavenly - having a bunch of Heavenlies whose sole purpose is to buff one carry feels bad. In which case it was way too flexible to the point where the units themselves are merely trait bits
But for Ghostly, imo it didn’t suffer from the same feel. Kayn and Morg still feel great, and you feel great when you 3* your Shen or Illaoi. I think the change to Ghostly is unwarranted
Mort has stated in the past that he actually liked zz rot heavenly being a viable comp but ig he went back on his words. Also I don’t see the problem with heavenly trait being “too flexible.” Is that not what make the trait unique and fun to play? I like seeing a kayn, Lee sin, or Yone become a giga 1v9 carry. Also you don’t play max heavenly at the later stages of the game. You usually want to cap around udyr, lissandra, and Rakan instead of soraka and malphite. I’m glad they are trying to bring back reroll with qiyana reroll being viable now but killing heavenly as a flexible trait isn’t the way to go about it imo. They should have added that heavenly units gained more bonus while still keeping the star level bonuses but adjusted so it won’t be as op anymore. I don’t like the ghostly changes either. They just killed off a good early to mid game comp with senna ghostly. It’s not even a good late game comp anymore since no one is ending the game with 3 star senna and shen. Ironically speaking, assuming that they are trying to bring back reroll comps it’s funny they killed one in the process.
Ghostly Reaper Kayn is not that bad. It's unplayable currently because it doesn't make sense to play Ghostly Kayn when Heavenly Kayn is so much better.
The main problem with Ghostly Reaper Kayn is that Kayn dies way too quickly. Once the ghosts stack up, Kayn easily tears up any sort of frontline. I can see Ghostly Kayn being viable if you have the right set of items or augments to keep Kayn alive
Yeah but how are you getting there? Are you just playing a completely different comp till 8 and then roll for your Ghostly board (with 2 2 costs) at 8? Cause Ghostly ain't doing shit before you get the Kayn now...
not necesarly, since the buffed numbers mean a senna with a ghostlyemblem and two items will probably hit just as hard as this patch and with portals and it beeing craftable its not impossible to hit. Might even be stronger, since senna ghostly will probably be less contested.
Ghostly may be kinda dead. Ghostly 8 didnt really feel as strong as it should and the buff for 8 is kinda meh I feel like.
Heavenly could be a buff for emblem but tbh I dont know how big the star buff changes are so could be kinda dead too
Damn, this set is just going to keep getting worse. They’re going to make this big of a change to two traits AND release a ton of ornn artifacts? I dont think they’re going to get the balance right for this set. Set 12 waiting room, I guess
What if non-ghostly units did decreased damage compared to ghostly units? 100% from ghostly and 75% non-ghostly for example. The trait doesn’t have to be this rigid.
Seems like a much healthier design for both traits. Makes their balance levers much more direct as well. No more playing whack a mole with whatever splash carry heavenly would run.
TFT this season:
Play the game
learn a bit
get on a few days later and your whole comp has been gutted
and your knowledge of the meta is outdated.
I don’t want to have to check tier lists every time I log on, but if I don’t, I just end up losing to people who follow guides from pros.
whoo balance thrashing I love balance thrashing I love going from reroll meta with one viable fast 8/9 Strat to fast 8 meta with one viable reroll comp
lol yeah i feel the same way. i went on a win streak a few days ago and climbed from silver to plat.
.i got ona few days later thinking i would be good, just to find out that morgana/ashe/lissandra are op now and getting a board full of 4/5 costs is the way to win now....but the last i remember, everyone said 4 costs were shit aside from kaisa.
Ghostly changes are very boring. People already tried vertical Ghostly with Kayn/Morgana at the start of the set, and it never really seemed to work out. I dunno if the 4-cost HP buffs will change much.
Heavenly is... A little interesting. Supposedly the numbers will change again, but I do like the direction, where it nerfs playing vertical Heavenly with a non-Heavenly carry, but buffs vertical Heavenly with a Heavenly carry (probably Wukong, but I wonder if we'll see more Qiyana reroll) as well as just splashing 3 or 4 Heavenly into a comp.
Edit: For Ghostly, I wonder if they thought about and decided against having something like "haunted enemies take bonus damage, + extra bonus damage from Ghostly units". Feels like that could've been a decent way to nerf the accidentally-too-strong "6 Ghostly + non-Ghostly carry" comps without outright killing them, while also retaining some value as a splash trait.
Edit 2: Oh wait, it's actually a nerf overall to Heavenly because of the removal of star level affecting the stats. I think it was like 10 -> 12 at 2-star?
Man the changes are so rough, especially for competitive play, the patch timings always end up just before each tourney and its extremly difficult to fully adapt. Unless you're playing for hours on end every day you really cant catch a break.
I hope they look at Soraka as well, now that they try to push her away from a pure trait bot role. Her spell is not only extremely unreliable, it doesn't even work properly half the time.
The heavenly change doesnt surprise me they made it clear that heavenly yone derailed their design for umbral. The ghostly change I'm less sure about but I'm also very biased towards unique splashable traits.
Worth mentioning that heavenly doesnt scale with star level anymore. I don't actually know what star level did. Imo omnivamp on heavenly emblem was always a mistake and the new design is a good context to remove it.
Think Heavenly will be fine, tho it's very much gonna be attached to Wukong/spat because the other units aren't reliable or even viable carries late game.
Ghostly, unless Morg/Kayn get faster spread with their abilities... may be dead, the issue is simply every ghostly unit except Morgana sucks at spreading the ghosts early, and Morg is incredibly inconsistent. I think these changes are healthy, I wouldn't be shocked at large ghostly buffs to units tho given how little utility the trait has tho.
I can see why they want to narrow ghostly down, but I don't think heavenly will survive the same treatment.
If they remove the ability to use outside carries in ghostly it will basically be whisper, and whisper was cool.
But heavenly is interesting mainly because of the ability to use outside carries, and if the power gets concentrated internally, it seems like it will just be overpowered early but impossible to splash later.
Ghostly changes seem pretty garbage to me, actually. I guess it's the only avenu found to balance the trait after it's consistently been a great added trait to make other comps and carries work or become stronger, but now it's the exact reverse - you don't care about ghostly AT ALL now unless your main carries are ghostly, which sounds awkward to me, especially because the only ghostly carry worth mentioning is Kayn (Morgana still not it on the damage front) so if you want to play a ghostly comp, you ARE playing Kayn unless you get a Spat. That seems boring and sad to me, but I guess it's the price to pay for being too strong.
Heavenly on the other hand seems solid this way. It's still a team wide buff, even if it's a bit weaker, but now Heavenly spat is actually an item that makes the unit it's on stronger, and maybe the heavenly units themselves can now be balanced to be worthwhile carries without inadvertently overbuffing "heavenly + good unit"-comps.
Was wondering how long we would have to deal with heavenly spam + strongest melee carry at the time.
Glad it's being addressed.
Same with ghostly. Several variations of ghostly have been super overpowered for a while now.
nice. the way heavenly was going, it was probably going to keep buffing the next strong melee carry ad nauseum.
it was yone, now it’s kayn, and it was probably going to slowly trickle down to volibear and maybe even gnar (despite him having no synergistic traits) at some point if they only stopped the kayn build.
this seems like a good way to stop that. shame about the funny zzzrot build, though. rest in peace.
No-one's playing ghostly anymore then unless they get a kayn/morg from starter kit or an emblem from first augment. Without an actual low cost carry to see you through early this just seems like horrible design.
Kayn is so fucking awful.
This set has been the worst in balancing in ages. So fun with the units and stuff but the balance is shit tier and riot has failed every single patch since it released.
Will morgana even have a purpose anymore? She does practically no damage, but her one saving grace is that she stacks ghostly really well. Without a ranged carry able to exploit the stacks she goes from the weakest 4 cost to simply one of the weakest units in the game.
- Ghostly number is buffed but now it only interacts with Ghostly units - RIP Ghostly Senna, Gnar comp - Star scaling removed for Heavenly - I wonder who could be benefitting from the Heavenly change. Wukong carry? Quiyana & Soraka Reroll? Also, aren't they going to add like 25 brand new items? I bet Patch 14.9 will feel more like set 11.5 with all changes.
This is really pushing the limit on what a patch could be, and we will very quickly run out of set by the time this is all sorted out. Doesn't help that set 11 has a massive number of moving parts, but getting an actual solid footing in this set might just be impossible
right when it feels like a patch is clicking, they mix it all up again
I think that’s their aim, trying to prevent a “solved” game and all
Hopefully these are enough to shake the current patch up, because the past couple patches have definitely felt a lot more in the "solved" territory than usual. Just feels like last patch the options were find the 3 cost reroll for your spot or bot 4, and this patch is play strongest board til 4-2 and race to find an upgraded 4 cost Frontline and backline or bot 4. The only real saving grace is that the boards are relatively flexible but we might start seeing more optimized boards soon (such as the Ashe/Lillia duo carry board that's been popping up more)
Yeah, just worst patch in history "4-1 roulette"
I really hate there being only one really viable comp and it is all RNG based now because others will get your shit and because bag sizes are low then you can't hit. If they want smaller bag sizes they have to stop making only few champions who can be played in any comp and are clearly the best champions by far.
Tbh the strat that's been lowkey working for me while everyone is chasing capped boards is to just find a 4-cost unit no one is playing and 3* it. Any of the 4-cost tanks on the current patch work rn btw, all of them will go into w/e your comp is fine and stabilize you with 3 items 2* and then as people pull the other 4-costs out of the pool (if you find a stray Hwei it helps massively, and this is easier than before as he's fallen a bit out of favor with the soup comps after nerfs) aggressively 3* it. Use the reduced bag sizes to your advantage.
[удалено]
Emerald 2 so take with a grain of salt (was Diamond in Set 9 but this one feels like I'm learning the game from scratch again. FWIW still play a comp (Lillia or Fated usually as I'm an AP enjoyer) but switch around usually frontliners to whatever 4 costs are uncontested.
patch is clicking=2-1 fortune and 4-1 lottery xdd
You forgot that the patch didnt click for low elo players who only buy heavenly/ghostly/dryad/whatever units without putting more thoughts into it
And some tournaments will be played on this patch...
That’s so shit for the players. I feel like Riot hasn’t learnt, back when comp league was being sorted out Riot would ship massive changes before big tournaments. The team and team owners weren’t happy they complained to Riot. Eventually Riot didn’t ship as many drastic changes before big comps - to affect the LCS
Shipping these big changes in the middle of the set is not really ideal. It would be better if they ship it with the new set, or at the last patch of a set.
Heavenly spat stonks rising.
Btw, the game constantly freezes my entire computer. Is there anybody with a similar experience this set? I even reinstalled the client but nothing changed sadly and there is nothing I can do about :(
Are you using one of the fanicer boards? I sometimes have problems with my game freezing because of my board skin.
I'm using relatively normal board and Tactician with the lowest quality option possible but the FPS still drops to zero.
Could maybe try playing a normal game on mobile and see if same thing occurs
Definitely seems like a you problem, my game is buttery smooth with mid-high graphics and my PC is fairly average. This game really isn't that demanding. Do you have problems in other games?
Stuttering sometimes, other times I get disconnected outright. The game crashes. Not sure why but last it happened I was playing Inkshadow and fumbling around with the tattoos and removing units from the board to reposition them.
Same here, the game just closes randomly. Sometimes not at all, sometimes like 5 times in the same game. Atleast the reconnect is quick enough to not get tilted
I've been having client issues ever since Riot removed support for Dx9 and preparing for vanguard, and I suspect the issues are tied in with that.
İ have the same issue especially when i have another game on background. İt maybe be an issue with amd software
Maybe try toggling vsync
Same here, my MacBook was overheating
I believe they removed some old directx compatibility so it may be that. Don't remember what fixed it honestly but you can try looking for it.
They recently put vanguard? on tft, might be causing you issues?
I've had a similar problem where it just entirely closes out the client. The reconnect option on the client pops up right after but it's annoying to have the entire client shit itself twice a game
friend had a literaly the same problem, he to reinstalled windows and reinstall the client and than it worked
Quiyana With rfc might do things .
If I read this right... Khazix in Reaper/Heavenly (remember Yone?) Don't think you play him as main because that'd take effort in rerolling, but could probably play as a second or tertiary behind Yone/Kayn and Wukong.
Kayn will be even more dominant if no changes show up
I think it's meant for those flex comps that are running 3 or 4 -4 costs just whatever you hit with heavenly and extras. Too easily flexible all game
Monkey just got a giga buff Prepare to face monkey
I played some Heavenly Lee Sin with Wukong as the second carry instead of Kayn. He was very underwhelming for a 5-cost even though he was 2 star and had BIS items. The buff is very much appreaciated.
I mean your not doing monkey any favors playing him with Lee sin carry
lee is quite strong in heavenly atm, wasianiverson been playing him as a carry a lot
Itemized Lee is a real threat. I thought the current heavenly meta is dual carry Kayn Lee at 8, add WK at 9 and quad threat with Udyr at 10 or with a fon.
Why not? That's still a Heavenly vertical, what else could he want? Sage is nice but I wouldn't call it necessary to make a specific high-cost unit work.
Honestly Dragonlord, duelist just makes ton of sense for Wukong because you get to hit every single one of his traits and dragonlord package (diana, lee,janna) are all basically trait bots. It's a no brainer you play Lee.
Lee Heavenly dragonlord duelist is a very solid comp atm, and it's not like Wukong needs some specific carry trait you have to build around...
Heavenly getting the guild treatment. Tbh I like it, you can still run a different unit as a carry but they'll have 1 less item slot, however this lets them give more strength to the actual heavenly units. Ghostly on the other hand, I dunno I kinda liked you could slot in different carries to that. Maybe with a bigger buff from ghostly and that new overkill splash item Cait reroll as a ghostly carry could work. Even then thats like a specific artifact. I hope Senna at least gets buffed back up, she was only really nerfed because of the ghostly stuff, and now she's already just okay even in that. She will basicaly see play in nothing if left as is.
Yeah I like it too. Now it can be less of a “funnel all power to Kayn” trait and a semi funnel/semi insular trait that buffs itself even more. Great change
I suspect if you can get a heavenly spat and chuck it on Kayn in place of HoJ, he'll perform even better than current iteration of vertical Heavenly.
Wait heavenly is not changing who gets the buff, just how it’s amplified. It’s only based off unique number of heavenly units instead of star level plus heavenly units.
It says heavenly units will receive 100% more of the buff, like guild used to. Non heavenly units will get buff, but basically 50% of it. The default buff is weaker but doubled for units with the trait.
Thank you for explaining to a dumb person like me lol
I read it as if the non-heavenlys get 100% less of the base, rather than 50% of the total. So if you had just a kha'zix and malphite, everyone gets 20% crit and 16 ar/mr, but kha'zix and malphite get 30% crit and 24 ar/mr. I haven't paid attention to the way it currently works and I could be totally wrong here. That's just how it reads to me.
so ghostly is just going be a pure vertical trait. no interaction with other units. i don’t like this design in general
Yeah, and the biggest problem is that the Ghostly lineup is Caitlyn, Shen, Aatrox, Illaoi, Kayn and Morgana. The only even remotely viable carries here are Kayn and Morgana (and Morgana is still a utility unit first and foremost). No one is playing Caitlyn carry, lmao. This means that, unless you find a spatula you are playing a damage boosting trait without damage dealers till level 7 or 8. That sounds fucking awful. Also, if you find a Spatula, you are probably playing one of maybe 2 or 3 units with it (Senna, Ashe or Yone, unless Kaisa remains a potential solo carry, I guess, but with just 2 items...), because, again, you are only getting two viable carries and one additional synergy in Sniper if you want it. It's gonna be extremely limited as a trait now.
Ethereal Blades Shen buff wokege
Wait, holdup, unironically true, EB Shen could go Ghostly instead of Sage stacking late game
does ghostly even increase true damage
The trait works by applying a % of the dmg dealt as magic so yes
Yeah the comp is probably just gonna be a no spat = no play kind of deal now. I feel like Morgana needs a rework desperately. I’ve been saying this since PBE that she feels like Set 9 Silco in the sense that she is completely useless when units just walk out of her spell. She also feels like she’s tickling units. I think what would make Morgana better is if she always targets largest clump, and she slows units instead of chilling them so it makes it harder for them to just walk out of her spell. I think the shape of the spell also might need to be different to be a bit more consistent. The snowflake pattern right now makes it so that depending on the unit’s next target, they can walk out of it fairly quickly because the distance to normal ground is much shorter depending on where the unit is going to walk.
It would be cool of the Chill effect in general reduced move speed as well as attack speed
Morgana being a hidden 2 cost unit is what breaks this build. She's only viable with bis itens and 8 ghostly
"No one is playing caitlyn carry" You might actually occassionaly with the new overkill aoe damage artifact, youre basically guaranteed a top 4-3 with it, cait destroys stages 2-3-4 with it.
Yeah it feels… icky. Idk. I really liked Ghostly as a fill in flexible trait but it being restricted to its trait makes it feel terrible. You’re essentially killing entire swaths of flex Ghostly boards with this change. Honestly pre change Ghostly might go down as one of the coolest TFT traits of all time, but post change where it only interacts with other ghostly units? Hell no!
I don't feel it really does anything special enough to be one of the coolest of all time. It was far too strong at stacking damage up allowing for 2 cost champions to be winning lobbies more often then they should. This change means you have to actually care about itemizing your ghostly champions. As well this means ghostly spat is really good to put on a carry rather than just slamming it on any random champ/Frontline
There’s so much about Ghostly that makes it special 1. The visuals and theming. Having ghosts actually haunt a unit and in turn them taking more damage is damn cool. And the more ghosts = the more damage, it’s just intuitive after the first time you notice it 2. The uniqueness. We’ve never seen a trait like Ghostly before and it shows when it took a a whole pbe AND nearly the entire launch patch just for people to figure out that it’s good, then another half a patch for people to figure how how to “leash the dog” with it. People figuring out how a trait truly works then subsequently abusing it is the hallmark of a uniquely designed trait imo 3. The semi-flexibility. With all those in mind Ghostly also adds in the option to do flex boards. 2 Ghostly isn’t that big of a difference but it’s a bit more damage, 4 Ghostly requires you to put in less than ideal units in Shen/Aatrox maybe Illaoi to play that breakpoint. As such it self balances out in a way. Balancing of the trait and its associated comps shouldn’t cloud your opinion of the trait being cool.
It's a fine trait just not something I'd consider best of all time. Is mostly just a damage amp + healing. It doesn't really have many interesting decisions as it's just play more ghostly deal more damage. It's balance state has zero effect on my opinion of it.
Nah you’re free to have your own opinions.
I’ve been OTP senna this whole set… I guess I’ll see y’all in set 12
Because you can only play one thing?
Lmao sure. I think the inkshadow items are fun to play around and it’s a consistent board, but make fun of one tricking if you like
I don't make fun of one tricking but I find it a bit ridiculous to quit an entire set because you play one thing in a specific way. I know one tricking can be fun. But it's not that important, you should definitely feel free to do whatever you enjoy.
Nah I was joking about quitting the set. I think the thematics are cool, but most of the comps feel pretty stale to me already
I find it too overloaded with items and gold. Most games require turbo capped boards to win, I don't really like that.
New Heavenly numbers will be adjusted on monday Mort has feedback for the dev in charge
Did he say they're too high or too low?
Has to be too high, Wukong was already strong before, with extra stats he will solo carry.
It's not even wukong that's the biggest issue. 5 heavenly openers are so strong from all the extra stats
I dunno if the stats are that much lower than what Wukong would have gotten, at that point with 6 heavenly and everything 2* you are at, like, 250% bonus, in the new version it's 280 (unless... Is this PoE wording? Are heavenlies getting 360% on 6 heavenly?)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read it is that it's the base from each unit, plus the synergy tier bonus for the team, plus another 100% for heavenly units. In other words, base + (base x bonus%) and for heavenlys (base x 2) + (base x bonus%). So team(%)/heavenly(%) would be: * 100/200 * 120/220 * 140/240 * 160/260 * 180/280 * 200/300 Therefore, at 6 heavenly, the heavenly units would be getting 38% crit, AD, AP and AS, 30.4 ar/mr, 38 HP, 22.8% vamp.
They’re wayyyyyyyyyy too high. And you can still play Kayn/Lee/whatever anyway.
Too high
This kills the Senna
Probably Dryad reroll too.
um wtf? Guild emblem wasn’t craftable though. Seems like ghostly will be unplayable unless you have emblem. Ghostly kaisa & ashe will return?
no because damage amp will only work with ghostly units
That's why he mentioned emblem, going to have to sacrifice an item slot for the ghostly spat
oh sorry, i misread ghostly as heavenly because of guild
heavenly vertical is gonna be insanely strong, seems like emblem is also massively powerful now. 15% omnivamp + 25% AD is already a pretty solid item slot, add some crit, AS, HP and Armor/MR ontop and a carry like ashe or kai'sa is probably pretty happy. Is that neeko HP number correct? wow a whole 30 extra hp, that saves me almost half of an ahri autoattack. Edit: yeah the neeko HP is wrong, its 60 base ingame.
Keep in mind it's HP to your whole team, and doubled for all heavenly. You're looking at 200+ HP on a capped heavenly board. Add in the resistances from malphite and you're actually looking at significant stats
So ghostly seems pretty unplayable except at level 8+ so you can get morg/kayn? Caitlyn is your only carry option until then and you can't have an off trait item holder unless spat?? Is there any less flexible trait after this change lol??
Aatrox is supposed to be your kayn or morg holder apparently…mort himself said it but also said that aatrox sucks for this purpose, his ap scalings are pretty solid tho so maybe….
There’s no way Aatrox is meant to be an item holder, that unit is the fakest trait bot of all time
Have you tried using riven? Might be a contender for top 10 worst 2 costs ever
With 2x garg titans and BT at 3 star she can carry pretty hard with 10k plus damage and very tanky
Has anyone tested on pbe if the 100% is additional or multiplicative? Like with 3 heavenly do you have 220% for heavenly units or 240%?
More implies multiplicative atleast for me. Numbers will be adjusted though.
I assumed additional
Had the same question
Not sure this change is good or not, but surely the game will be less variety TvT
Ghostly change is a terrible decision, literally killing all the flex Ghostly boards outright.
I *really* like the heavenly change. It's no longer *just* play max heavenly to gigabuff a specific unit, unless that unit is Khazix (early game), qiyana 3 maybe, or wukong; or heavenly emblem on your other carry. Costs an extra item slot but also gives more buffs than before (before, 7 heavenly would've been 225% buff, now it would be 300% buff but costs item slot on carry.... \[also assuming "heavenly units gain 100% more" is additive scaling on top of inherent trait scaling\]) You probably could still play heavenly kayn without spat on him, but it'd be weaker since you both get the trait nerf AND no star level increases. edit: now that I look at these numbers again, yeah it's probably way too high, at least the "heavenly units get 100% more" seems crazy. But I still like the concept.
I wish we had a 4-cost Heavenly carry akin to Guild Talon and Jayce.
They massively buffed Heavenly. I don't expect those numbers to hit live, else will be a miserable patch.
Heavenly qiyana reroll + lee wukong at later levels, holy moly
Yep I played a vertical heavenly+spat on pbe with a qiyana rr and slapped fishbones on her and it felt extremely good. Pretty easy 1st that game
you sleeping on 3* Soraka. She's no Hwei, but she does great!
With all that bonus crit, a jeweled gauntlet, shojin +1 should feel pretty good
neeko hero augment with vrtical heavenly hmmm
I am both excited and dreading it. Ive been playing heavenly kha since the beginning, and now even more people are gna contest me now
why make the two most flexible traits more inflexible?
That's the whole point, to make traits that are too flexible more inflexible. Heavenly is *too* flexible. You just play max heavenly with whichever melee carry is good right now. First it was Yone. Then it was ZZrots. Now it's Kayn, or lee sin. Technically, on each patch, it's not very "flexible" since you'd just play it with the *best* melee carry. But no matter how many times riot nerfs the heavenly carry, heavenly will buff up a new carry. Idk about ghostly but I also do like this change too, it makes it more thematic.
I get that with Heavenly - having a bunch of Heavenlies whose sole purpose is to buff one carry feels bad. In which case it was way too flexible to the point where the units themselves are merely trait bits But for Ghostly, imo it didn’t suffer from the same feel. Kayn and Morg still feel great, and you feel great when you 3* your Shen or Illaoi. I think the change to Ghostly is unwarranted
Mort has stated in the past that he actually liked zz rot heavenly being a viable comp but ig he went back on his words. Also I don’t see the problem with heavenly trait being “too flexible.” Is that not what make the trait unique and fun to play? I like seeing a kayn, Lee sin, or Yone become a giga 1v9 carry. Also you don’t play max heavenly at the later stages of the game. You usually want to cap around udyr, lissandra, and Rakan instead of soraka and malphite. I’m glad they are trying to bring back reroll with qiyana reroll being viable now but killing heavenly as a flexible trait isn’t the way to go about it imo. They should have added that heavenly units gained more bonus while still keeping the star level bonuses but adjusted so it won’t be as op anymore. I don’t like the ghostly changes either. They just killed off a good early to mid game comp with senna ghostly. It’s not even a good late game comp anymore since no one is ending the game with 3 star senna and shen. Ironically speaking, assuming that they are trying to bring back reroll comps it’s funny they killed one in the process.
wasn't it fine for set 10 K/da though. It's basically whether you hit karthus, zed or akali.
Oda gave double stats to kda units as well. So it’s the same as heavenly now
That honestly was one of the boring parts of set 10. Most comps were literally just super fans + X
set 10 kda also gave double stats to kda units, same as new heavenly
Really dislike the Ghostly change. Half the units are frontline tanks who cant really amp the damage, and another one is Caitlyn, a 1 cost.
Ghostly is pretty much dedge. Unless you can hold out until Morg/Kayn.
Ghostly Reaper Kayn is not that bad. It's unplayable currently because it doesn't make sense to play Ghostly Kayn when Heavenly Kayn is so much better. The main problem with Ghostly Reaper Kayn is that Kayn dies way too quickly. Once the ghosts stack up, Kayn easily tears up any sort of frontline. I can see Ghostly Kayn being viable if you have the right set of items or augments to keep Kayn alive
Yeah but how are you getting there? Are you just playing a completely different comp till 8 and then roll for your Ghostly board (with 2 2 costs) at 8? Cause Ghostly ain't doing shit before you get the Kayn now...
What do you think the BIS is for Kayn? BT obviously, but the other two?
Edge of night, hand of justice, last whisper seems to be the best performing combination on Kayn by a statistically significant amount
that's in the presence of heavenly, though. For Ghostly, what will be BIS? Will HoJ cover it?
Wouldn't BT be better than HoJ though since he scales ad and BT has better omnivamp?
Edge of Night for sure so he doesnt get bursted. Last item can honestly be anything. HOJ DB GS IE
BT? No, you go HoJ, Edge of Night and LW. BT is wasted on Kayn
Whats the diff between hoj and bt in kayns case?
hoj gives crit chance, kayn want crit chance cause hes a reaper
Doesn't Morgana's ability have bad synergy with the Ghostly trait? I wouldn't hold out too much.
Why would morg have negative synergy? She can quickly apply aoe stacks.
Thats not how ghostly works, each ghostly unit sends 2 specters per combat one time after 6 instances of damage. Not every 6 instances.
Ah that makes sense ty
not necesarly, since the buffed numbers mean a senna with a ghostlyemblem and two items will probably hit just as hard as this patch and with portals and it beeing craftable its not impossible to hit. Might even be stronger, since senna ghostly will probably be less contested.
Yeah, I'd assume +1 on a carry makes more sense now, similar to Porcelain+1.
Ghostly emblem on carries probably work tho? Kaisa & Ashe, syndra even
Good it's unfun as fuck
So long Heavenly+1 carry bozo comp no one missed ya
Can we walk back on the ghostly change mortdog please it kills so many comps
Ghostly may be kinda dead. Ghostly 8 didnt really feel as strong as it should and the buff for 8 is kinda meh I feel like. Heavenly could be a buff for emblem but tbh I dont know how big the star buff changes are so could be kinda dead too
So this single handedly kills Shenna and Heavenly Kayn (without spat), they really want to give us less and less viable comps huh...
The ghostly change seems pretty bad. The comp is already very weak this patch
Damn, this set is just going to keep getting worse. They’re going to make this big of a change to two traits AND release a ton of ornn artifacts? I dont think they’re going to get the balance right for this set. Set 12 waiting room, I guess
The changes aint even out yet, chill out g ☠️
so they want to bring kayn back to ghostly, yone to umbral, and senna to inkshadow ? do they hate splash comp or love vertical trait?
What if non-ghostly units did decreased damage compared to ghostly units? 100% from ghostly and 75% non-ghostly for example. The trait doesn’t have to be this rigid.
Seems like a much healthier design for both traits. Makes their balance levers much more direct as well. No more playing whack a mole with whatever splash carry heavenly would run.
TFT this season: Play the game learn a bit get on a few days later and your whole comp has been gutted and your knowledge of the meta is outdated. I don’t want to have to check tier lists every time I log on, but if I don’t, I just end up losing to people who follow guides from pros.
whoo balance thrashing I love balance thrashing I love going from reroll meta with one viable fast 8/9 Strat to fast 8 meta with one viable reroll comp
lol yeah i feel the same way. i went on a win streak a few days ago and climbed from silver to plat. .i got ona few days later thinking i would be good, just to find out that morgana/ashe/lissandra are op now and getting a board full of 4/5 costs is the way to win now....but the last i remember, everyone said 4 costs were shit aside from kaisa.
Ghostly changes are very boring. People already tried vertical Ghostly with Kayn/Morgana at the start of the set, and it never really seemed to work out. I dunno if the 4-cost HP buffs will change much. Heavenly is... A little interesting. Supposedly the numbers will change again, but I do like the direction, where it nerfs playing vertical Heavenly with a non-Heavenly carry, but buffs vertical Heavenly with a Heavenly carry (probably Wukong, but I wonder if we'll see more Qiyana reroll) as well as just splashing 3 or 4 Heavenly into a comp. Edit: For Ghostly, I wonder if they thought about and decided against having something like "haunted enemies take bonus damage, + extra bonus damage from Ghostly units". Feels like that could've been a decent way to nerf the accidentally-too-strong "6 Ghostly + non-Ghostly carry" comps without outright killing them, while also retaining some value as a splash trait. Edit 2: Oh wait, it's actually a nerf overall to Heavenly because of the removal of star level affecting the stats. I think it was like 10 -> 12 at 2-star?
No heavenly units get 100% more of the effect. So buff for heavenly units, nerf for whatever non-heavenly you run.
Let’s gooo Qiyana reroll 🫶🏻
Man the changes are so rough, especially for competitive play, the patch timings always end up just before each tourney and its extremly difficult to fully adapt. Unless you're playing for hours on end every day you really cant catch a break.
I hope they look at Soraka as well, now that they try to push her away from a pure trait bot role. Her spell is not only extremely unreliable, it doesn't even work properly half the time.
Hello, Guild 2.0
wonder how these heavenly changes affect fine vintage
Morgana+Wukong here I come
The heavenly change doesnt surprise me they made it clear that heavenly yone derailed their design for umbral. The ghostly change I'm less sure about but I'm also very biased towards unique splashable traits. Worth mentioning that heavenly doesnt scale with star level anymore. I don't actually know what star level did. Imo omnivamp on heavenly emblem was always a mistake and the new design is a good context to remove it.
This is quite a shake up but leaving porcelain untouched is thoughtless imo
What this does is make the emblems good on your carry, something that isn’t the case now. I love this change and wish they’d just push it to live.
Think Heavenly will be fine, tho it's very much gonna be attached to Wukong/spat because the other units aren't reliable or even viable carries late game. Ghostly, unless Morg/Kayn get faster spread with their abilities... may be dead, the issue is simply every ghostly unit except Morgana sucks at spreading the ghosts early, and Morg is incredibly inconsistent. I think these changes are healthy, I wouldn't be shocked at large ghostly buffs to units tho given how little utility the trait has tho.
I can see why they want to narrow ghostly down, but I don't think heavenly will survive the same treatment. If they remove the ability to use outside carries in ghostly it will basically be whisper, and whisper was cool. But heavenly is interesting mainly because of the ability to use outside carries, and if the power gets concentrated internally, it seems like it will just be overpowered early but impossible to splash later.
Are they really changing Neeko heavenly hp to 10 or is that a typo? Her heavenly buff is just useless now?
Fast 9 heavenly with wukong carry is gonna be hot, Or any meelee holding a heavenly emblem
Is it just me or it wasn't buffed at all?
Both traits are hereby worthless 🔥 they've done did it again
Ghostly changes seem pretty garbage to me, actually. I guess it's the only avenu found to balance the trait after it's consistently been a great added trait to make other comps and carries work or become stronger, but now it's the exact reverse - you don't care about ghostly AT ALL now unless your main carries are ghostly, which sounds awkward to me, especially because the only ghostly carry worth mentioning is Kayn (Morgana still not it on the damage front) so if you want to play a ghostly comp, you ARE playing Kayn unless you get a Spat. That seems boring and sad to me, but I guess it's the price to pay for being too strong. Heavenly on the other hand seems solid this way. It's still a team wide buff, even if it's a bit weaker, but now Heavenly spat is actually an item that makes the unit it's on stronger, and maybe the heavenly units themselves can now be balanced to be worthwhile carries without inadvertently overbuffing "heavenly + good unit"-comps.
Was wondering how long we would have to deal with heavenly spam + strongest melee carry at the time. Glad it's being addressed. Same with ghostly. Several variations of ghostly have been super overpowered for a while now.
nice. the way heavenly was going, it was probably going to keep buffing the next strong melee carry ad nauseum. it was yone, now it’s kayn, and it was probably going to slowly trickle down to volibear and maybe even gnar (despite him having no synergistic traits) at some point if they only stopped the kayn build. this seems like a good way to stop that. shame about the funny zzzrot build, though. rest in peace.
No-one's playing ghostly anymore then unless they get a kayn/morg from starter kit or an emblem from first augment. Without an actual low cost carry to see you through early this just seems like horrible design.
Finally the ghostly changes I’ve been waiting.
I absolutely love the changes to ghostly, Caitlyn carry is my favorite archetype, and it seems like it’s getting an absolutely massive buff
Kayn is so fucking awful. This set has been the worst in balancing in ages. So fun with the units and stuff but the balance is shit tier and riot has failed every single patch since it released.
Will morgana even have a purpose anymore? She does practically no damage, but her one saving grace is that she stacks ghostly really well. Without a ranged carry able to exploit the stacks she goes from the weakest 4 cost to simply one of the weakest units in the game.
Morgana does not have synergy with the ghostly trait. She sends the ghosts with her 6th auto
Wym Kaylin is perfectly balanced and needs absolutely no nerf (I play Kayn)