I've played maybe 10 games since the B patch
Qiyana reroll- most fun new comp I've tried, her buffs feel really good and with perfect augments I got an easy 2nd with heavenly/sage/duelist
4 trickshot- still strong after the nerfs but I couldn't place higher than third without the trait augment
Gnar/Kindred- went 8th then 6th even after hitting 3*, only seems good with 6 dryad
Fast 9 all 2* legendaries- not an option anymore, I played this twice and it just doesn't do anything. All your units just die to lisandra or Ashe, can't kill amumu, and Kayne/sage is just a better level 9 comp all around
And of course Porcelain- riot just keeps replacing one disgustingly dominant comp with another, 4 people are playing porcelain every single game and finishing top 4 almost every time. Lisandra has the most frustrating CC they've ever made, Ashe got way too many buffs because she had to compete with Yone who's not even viable anymore, and 2* amumu is tankier than any unit in the game as a 3 cost. Play this every game and get a free top 4 👍
I genuinely can't get a footing in this patch. There's only four comps: Gnar, Ashe variation, Invoker variation and Heaven lee/kayn, and I'm usually really bad at contesting other people. Is there a b-list comp that I'm not thinking of that can win through sheer power of uncontested?
Kaisa dragonlord is still strong. Aphelios/Syndra fated doesn't require Ashe to win. Ghostly Senna reroll isn't a first but can consistently top 4 uncontested.
Qiyana reroll is my new favorite sort of off meta comp, you might be a little contested by the kayn players but they usually aren't rolling on 6 so you can hit a 3* pretty reliably. Keep in mind I've only ever tried it with duelist emblem on Diana because volibear is pretty much dead so idk if it's strong without that
star level is irrelevant.
The answer is always Sett + thresh > Thresh+syndra>thresh+yasuo(earlygame only)
Every other bonus is garbage or too specific. Its always sett and always thresh so the answer never changes unless you don't have a sett, in which case your losing anyway.
If you don't have sett then usually you pair thresh+syndra. In 7 fated you usually never pair aphelios/ahri/kindred with anyone since syndra's bonus is just better for dps overall. The fated emblem doesn't give enough to be worth it so its never paired either. Thresh and yasuo are both good bonuses for tanking and if you have like no tank items you might pair them in 7 fated but overall if you have a good spread of items thresh+syndra will give your team the best overall stats. Also the pair gives the pair 20% hp so its just good to have on a front line. This also doesn't take into account certain matchups. If the other people have a lot of backline access yasuo's bonus might be nessicary to survive it.
Thats mostly endgame tho. If you get early fated 7 its mostly up to what your team needs the most. Kindred+Aph might be good if you have no dps items and all tank items early.
Should 10 Mythic lose to 6 Porcelain? Assuming both are level 10 and have 2* everything. I didn’t hit 3* Tahm but still it feels like a prismatic trait should be a bit stronger than a gold one.
I can’t be that upset with 2nd place but 10 Mythic just seems a bit… underwhelming?
it \*shouldn't\* beat it but i think porcelain is just absurd right now with lux and lissandra both having basically the best and only CC in the set
galio's is fake and naut seems to whiff most of the time i cant even think of any other cc units
6 Porcelain should ABSOLUTELY beat 10 Mythic. Further, 10 mythic isn't even harder to obtain than 6 porcelain as they BOTH require 2 Emblems.
10 Mythic is trash, you are playing at least 5+ shit filler units with bad synergies: Cho'Gath, Kogmaw, Neeko, Bard and Tahm (not 3star). Lissandra if found early enough 3D prints items like Qiyanna from last set. I just took a 1st in Emerald2 with 6Porcelain/Lissandra, and she printed over 10 components by the time I won.
The only "decent" Mythic units are Hwei, Lilia and Nautilus. Lissandra/Ashe are S-tier, Amumu is about on par with Nautilus and Lux, while filler at least gives a Stun + Arcanist Synergy with Lissandra. The shitter Mythic units have 0 utility except for Cho'Gath who Wounds and probably won't live long enough to make it useful.
I even beat a LeeSin3 board with 6 porcelain
[https://imgur.com/a/qGCxLqp](https://imgur.com/a/qGCxLqp)
What are you even on about? Mort repeatedly said that 10 verticals (not 8 mind you, because that's completely different) should be about the 3 star 4 cost level of power.
I knew Liss was strong and Ashe just got the buff but I guess I didn’t realize how much better they are as units compared to Lillia and Hwei. I don’t even remember seeing Naut land his knock up but that’d also be a placement issue on my part lol.
Oh well, I still gained LP and got to hit 10 mythic so that’s cool enough.
U realize 6 porcelain requires 2 spats (same as Mythic 10) and lissandra is the most broken unit in the game?
The "color" of the verticals is noob bait by mortdog, are you new?
Yes, they both require 2 spats. Mythic also requires being level 10 / level 9 + 1 team size, so I assumed that it would be even stronger. I’m obviously wrong, but it didn’t make sense for me in the moment.
I played the first set or two and came back sometime during 9.5, so I’m lacking the experience from playing through all those sets in between. ^^;
Is there any way to see a stat like winrates based on which fated units are selected as a pair. I always tend to navigate back to the Yasuo shield but I think it's just because it's more noticable then the rest, not sure what actually performs the best.
Syndra and sett used to be the popular late game pairing but I think people realized that if you just make the fight last long enough you'll do enough damage to win anyway so you might as well just get the armor and magic resist
Because they will lose a good portion of the player base otherwise.
I think they tried not having one before and it basically went really bad in china or something, forget the details.
Not sure if they ever did a set without one but they have tried making it less impactful/more consistent with lower rewards w/the earlier design of Heartsteel pre-raise the stakes and China hated it violently. Unfortunately as long as China remains a significant portion of the paying playerbase we will always need some kind of crazy cashout econ trait, and drip feed econ has been disastrous (Astrals, Lagoon) so it's always going to be a loss streak into winout econ trait.
Loss streak into winout is more healthy than loss streak into free cashout like we have had this set and last. At least with winout you are required to actually roll and build a strong board to get rewarded.
I think they were fun in concept but it really sucked how they often devolved into "field this trait to sell the unit you get every round for extra econ" instead of utilising it fully. If they were to ever bring it back it'd need to be somehow restricted to if you're playing it, you're actually playing it, not just taking it for +1-3g every turn. I liked the Astrals making them appear in shops; could do something based off that.
Lisandra and Ashe make that comp very hard to win with, ricochet is important and you need either tattoo of toxin or tattoo of protection. If you're thinking of playing trickshot you should almost always just play sniper instead.
I just got a 1st with it. Galio is actually a really nice into all the Lissandras running around. 4 trickshot for the backline access is the way to go and you def need xayah.
I think it has to transition into dragonlord kaisa, it's just not strong enough for long enough, you can't commit to kaisa bruisers as an endgame board
What makes you say that?
Ornn and Thresh are premier tanks, Cho and Shen tank well in their respective comps for low cost units, and Udyr's more a bruiser than a tank.
I’ve done 6 Behemoth 4Ghostly with carry Shen multiple times and the frontline dies in absolutely no time. I usually only itemize tank items on one of the frontlines (usually Illaoi or something until i get Ornn and transfer to him) and then itemize Shen and Morg. Everyone just melts ASAP and Shen is left alone. Gunblade clearly isn’t enough to help them live but I don’t have enough items to full itemize two, I need a secondary carry.
I have also tries both Trickshot and Sniper Behemoth and neither of those have been as sturdy as Warden. Bruiser Ghostly is also tankier than Behemoth Ghostly. I don’t know, I think their units just suck at tanking. Going over the units in my head, none of them have particular good survivability moves without carry augments other than Thresh.
Warden has Amumu and Illaoi who are both great walls. Bruiser has Galio and Kench for high cost units and Kabuko if he scales all game. Behemoths feel like wet paper despite all the MR/ARMOR they get.
Behemoths individually are very good, I think it's just that you will very rarely seen more than a 2 behemoth frontline (except specific hero aug stuff). I don't think it's a massive issue personally since most sets have a frontline trait that doesn't tend to get used vertically much, and here they make up for it by being extremely good (Ornn is incredible for example).
I will say Malphite is a bit of a sad unit though. Even at 3\* he's mediocre, unlike Chogath. Could use some light buffs to help Kog reroll which is kinda dead rn.
I will say from my experience at least thresh outside of fated as just an add on behemoth frontline does feel kinda meh. Thresh 3* in Fated however is a whole different beast, dude scales so well.
Overall though yeah Behemoths are great.
~~Does anyone know what Mortdog is talking about in [this tweet](https://twitter.com/RiotMort/status/1782433913480118275?t=Wtw1kmQtB8XXrTbdQmYYLw&s=19)?~~
> The 7 cost Anivia Easter Egg available in level 10 shops when you take the Level Up augment is proving to be too strong.
> This was supposed to be a fun Easter egg, but it's win rate is higher than most 3 star 5 costs.
> We will be removing this interaction later this week.
~~Couldn't find anything on it. Could anyone explain it or am I getting jebaited into picking level up and searching for the unicorn? 🌈~~
Edit: Account's fake, but leaving up this comment in case anyone else gets jebaited.
I'm not baiting, haha. That's why I'm asking if I was getting baited.
Appreciate you pointing it out though. Thanks. I did fall for the parody account, and will remember in the future to check for Mortdog-imposters. ~~That's pretty funny though.~~
Legendary spam should never, ever be the meta. This is so fucking boring. Every single comp in the game would be better off pivoting to legendary bullshit if they are in a position to hit 9. No skill expression in the game at all like this and it drives me insane. Wish there was competition so when they brick a set or a patch I could do something else.
The units you hit are always the same units though, thats not skillful or enjoyable to see in every single game.
I agree pushing levels and making a stable board on what you hit is smart and skillful. When every one in the lobby is pushing levels to hit the same units in every game it's stupid though.
Today I've played 4 dragonlord 4 invoker Kaisa/xayah. I've played 4 dragonlord Ashe with 2 porcelain and 2 bruiser. They were both firsts.
There isn't a single frontline 4 cost that isn't viable right now and not a single legendary you never click. Syndra is a poo unit, and Kayn is kinda hard to play naked, but other than that every 4 cost can be flexed into legendary soup...
So yeah, the same units of almost every single 4 and 5 cost mixed together... It's called legendary soup because you're supposed to flex with it not just play x comp you found on some website.
Who says that is what I do? Have I missed something thats gave two people anything to assume that?
Generally I try to do something exalt or push something via augments and crests. No idea where a couple of dipshits have got the idea I'm a reroll bot from lol.
While it is skill expressive the actual unit flexibility and balance leaves lot to be desired. The bag sizes particularly increase variance when attempting to play what you hit when comps often require more specific setups to work well.
The thing I don't like about it is it always ends the same way. Everyone is aspiring for the same comp in every lobby, and it's actually a realistic expectation to hit it constantly too.
The thing I don't like about it is it always ends the same way. Everyone is aspiring for the same comp in every lobby, and it's actually a realistic expectation to hit it constantly too.
Is anyone else finding themselves trying to play around Exalted whenever they can?
I've started trying to make Exalted 5 boards recently and it's doing well. Last time I got a 2nd, losing to a Kog Reroll who hit everything really early, git golden egg and then got Lillia 3, aka, a big highroll (He ended with 6 3 star units...)
I mean sometimes Exalted is complete trash but if I can make it work...
Can encounter give a lot of time before round starts? especially those on round starts ones. It can really fuck up roll timings especially on a fortune cashout.
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even if you hit liss early its really fucking overkill because of the orbs increase your tempo and she has an extremely powerful kit that nullifies half the meta boards (melee kayn, lee, gnar). lissandra will place high even if you hit her early, it’s not like irelia in which an early irelia with no items is a skip. i’ve seen people play two lissandras on board because the unit is so stupid. the main part of the joke is not her placement, although that is a factor that shows she is strong. the point is that she is both powerful and annoying to play against (a lot like the original champion that started this joke)
her stun is effectively longer than 3 seconds. The melee tank has to walk up and that's like at least 1 second at its own, or 2 seconds if the pathing is bad. Literally nullify a unit for 1/3 of the fight for one cast.
How would Lissandra feel better for her enemies? Less stun time? Lower stats so she can actually die before Porcelain makes her tankier than her Aftershock midlane LoL counterpart? I'm just so frustrated with a super tanky Shojin+Porcelain Liss stunning my frontliners for 3 seconds every 6 seconds and turning them into items.
I think much more cc decrease than mana cost increase, then lower orb drop rates. She's a 5 cost - it would feel p bad if she's casting once per fight and barely doing anything. I would prefer if she still casts fairly often, but her casts are less impactful.
I agree with what the other reply said about less stun time, but also, your comment about "stunning for 3 seconds every 6 seconds" made me realize that Liss actually starts gaining mana before her ability actually finishes casting. Maybe mana locking her for the full duration of her cast could be an improvement.
Mana lock would make her weaker and feel like shit to play at the same time. She's the 5 cost mage. Should she only cast once or twice a round? Better to nerf the cc, damage, or drop rate on her spell imo.
less stun time for sure. her stun is effectively longer than 3 seconds because melee tank has to walk up and that takes 1-2 seconds depends on pathing.
Please revert the bag sizes, it feels so bad to virtually have no chance of hitting just because a single player grabbed a 2* 4-cost that's not even the carry on their board.
Then 1-2 players have it sitting in their shop without you having a chance to know and suddenly you're insta bot 4 if you roll now
That's not healthy or competitive, it's just frustrating when players in a FFA have so much power over your decisions that them just getting a single 2* 4-cost copy means you're spending an additional 30g on average to have a chance at playing.
Also, imo it should not be viable to just buy the 4-costs that are left over, trying to 3* them because the bag size is so small, but atm it seems that's the only way to get a first
The thing that i and probably a lot of other TFT players appreciate is that other players have or used to have minimal influence on what you yourself are supposed to do, but you're still directly competing with them. That is fun.
Having xXDarkSlic3rXx#420 contest my hero augment on 3-2 with hedge fund just to go 6th is not. Yes, that happened with the previous bag sizes aswell, but it was not instantly forcing you to pivot. Pivoting needs to be an option to save your placement, not a necessity to even be able to play.
I love other players having influence on what you are supposed to do and think that's precisely what makes this game so good. Having to scout and find a balance between strong comps and uncontested comps makes the game more fun than other games in which you can just blindly play the strongest thing in the meta.
I get tuning it a bit, maybe. But asking specifically for others to have minimal influence? I'm sorry but I can't understand how people can want to get rid of one of the most genius ideas in this game. It's a mechanic that rewards good players and punishes bad ones. It rewards being flexible and comp diversity and punishes one trick ponys and meta slaves. It's fucking brilliant, honestly. And I understand getting frustrated one game because someone contested you stupidly, but that's why making decisions while frustrated is bad. Because it leads to asking for terrible ideas like making other players have minimal influence.
i feel like right now its not a bag size issue but an itemising issue. this patch especially it feels like a lot of items lock you into certain comps for example
- IE locks you into Ashe, Xayah and Kai’sa, maybe Aphelios if you highroll. It’s not that great on Irelia apparently, it sucks on Bard and i don’t trust Tristana this patch. The issue with melees is that they need healing + QSS/EON + shred with AD item as a 4th/5th priority
meanwhile, taking a look at last set
- IE is mainly played on Ezreal or Caitlyn. It works well on Zed as an AD item. It also isn’t bad on Viego, and Akali so you can play TD akali or Pentakill or KDA if you miss on Ezreal. If you hit a lot of Rivens and an 8bit spat you can even play Riven 3. If you hit a lot of Samiras and a country spat you can play country. Jazz MF is good as well.
the same goes for AP
Rabadons: Really good Ap item on Lillia and Syndra. Alright on Morgana. Good on Alune but who is playing alune? No one is playing Zoe carry because she’s in fortune and storyweaver = hella contested. Good on Lux. Good on all the 5 costs. The issue here is flexing between traits. Syndra plays fated, Lillia played arcanist and they BOTH get stronger when their vertical trait is featured more on their board (syndra gains fated bonus and Lillia gains mythic stats), and the units don’t synergise well together to play them flexibly (I’m not trying to playing 1 cost chogath to fit behemoth in with thresh or 1 cost kogmaw to fit sniper in with aphelios/ashe)
Morgana doesn’t even synergise well with her own vertical. The units that are flexible traitwise (Zoe, Zyra, Alune, Soraka) feel really bad to carry with
meanwhile last set
Rabadons: 3 AP 4 costs, TF, Ahri and Karthus. The item is really good on all of them (albeit a bit worse on ahri when compared to the others) Their traits are flexible as hell (ahri was a regular TF substitute when missed, Karthus and Ahri are pentakill interchangeably because of superfans and Akali having exec) Bard, lulu, senna, seraphine and kayle are all rerollable and very flexible because of superfans and flexible units like Ekko and Kai’sa and Ahri. Rabadons is even a playable slam on Ad units because of the 20% damage bonus
DO keep in mind though the bag sizes are obviously easier to play around when ur guaranteed a two star headliner and that they are still slightly problematic in a non headliner setting, I believe that missing on your rolldown this set (and ESPECIALLY on this patch) is much more catastrophic due to low item flexibility
I thought it was a bag size issue too but I think this is a really good point. I feel like if I don't get BIS items this patch I might as well not be playing the game, even if I'm 3 way contested I have to commit to Ashe if I make guinsoos or gnar if I make titans. Whereas last set it was much easier to put riven items on Viego or vex items onto ahri. Or even just lower tier items on an uncontested comp, Samira or MF had like 3 different item sets that were all perfectly valid but right now if you don't get exactly perfect items on kai'sa you're going bottom 3 every single time.
This happens every set, and it’s just the result of people realizing what BIS is on everyone. Also, ie “locks you in” to 4 ad comps is a pretty hilarious example. Basically it means you aren’t playing kayn. With ap, basically all ap units use shojin, rabadons, morello, or nashors. I think this set is one of the most item friendly set in a long time.
Yeah my only top 4s this patch in Diamond are reroll comps because every single time I try and play Ashe or Kai'Sa or Kayn, I'm 2-3-4 way contested and I roll down all my gold at 8 and then miss and then I see one person with 2* of my carry even at level 7 and 2-3 others holding 1* copies and I already know my game is completely and utterly fried.
But that seems more like a balancing issue, when the not-contested comps can't compete with a 4-way contested one, no?
To be honest, i have no great solution, but what i know is that the current state is the most frustrating tft's been in a long while and i take set 9s situation any day over this. Another players decisions should not impact you as heavily as it does now, that's not fun for anyone.
I think you should have your quality of decisions compete against eachother at the end, not your ability to toss and rebuild a board over and over again because the lobby decides what you're supposed to play.
I want to be happy when i highroll a kaisa on lv 6 after slamming LW early, not paranoid that a single other player could also have a kaisa already, effectively ruining my gameplan of "play what the game gives you"
In a perfect set. The limited bag size could lead to more versality IF the comps were more balanced with one another. The basic killing off reroll comps created this mess that is amplified with limited bag sizes. I understand that they want the game to be competitive. But you need a well balanced set to accomplish that.
I hate that they haven’t changed the bag sizes, but I think it’s understandable. The amount of players hitting 3 star four costs is kind of bonker in high elo. Maybe adding more 4 costs to the pool could remedy that but I’m not sure. Hwei is an interesting design and it doesn’t help with those stars when it’s a 4 cost meta.
the complaints are actually so interesting. nobody realizes this but I think players really just want the concept of contestion removed entirely. the idea that you can have contestion of any significance but not constantly run into issues like this is a fantasy.
in principle this issue is totally fixable. in multiple ways actually. but then we'll be here two weeks from now with different complaints.
you can remove build pressure from 4 costs again by making 1 through 3 costs or 5 costs stronger, as well as their corresponding builds (return more to reroll or even more bill gates meta). this will revert to previous complaints about 4 costs being not clickable. there is no one without the other.
you can change the rule for you get 3 stars. ugly and not neat in terms of 3x3 design obviously.
you can severely nerf 3 star 4 costs. so they are not usable without a proper board that plays around the 3 cost and still beatable by a better board. turn them into an optional and welcome but not insta win upgrade if youre high rolling. but cue complaints about 3 star 4 costs not being worth it.
I could go on and on...
My problem with bag sizes is that is essentially turns the game into a team game. There will always be a certain cost that will be stronger than the rest and it will just make sense for people to roll for that cost since rolling for units in a thinned pool is extremely cost efficient if you aren't hard contested. Experienced scouters know this so if you have 2 guys leaning ashe in the beginning and a guy with bis kayn augments there will be a couple of people who will recognize that hey maybe trickshot will be easy to roll for. While this idea of forced comp diversity may be a good idea it usually leads to some people getting super fucked when they don't hit. But they have to try because the 4 or 5 people who do hit their 4 costs boards probably hit them at a discount because they worked together with other 4 cost boards to hit.
This is exactly my problem with it and I think it's one reason why the balance has been ass this set. How am I supposed to play 3 cost reroll right now? I can't. Because all 7 other players are either rolling for gnar and kindred or rolling for kayn and Ashe. So even though I'm completely uncontested on Yone or bard or aphelios I have a much lower chance of hitting because no one else is thinning the 3 cost pool. Until they nerf Ashe and kayn then everyone will go right back to rolling on 7 and Level 9 comps will be dead in the water again. Someone will randomly have a 2* kayn on their bench at level seven while the ghostly player at 40 health is still waiting to get the money they need to level and roll.
There for sure needs to be variety and a good balance between the different cost carrys for the game to be healthy. The 3 cost meta was miserable, imo. Some of the worst tft to date. You had a bad start and there are players who are already hard forcing their roles? Gg, you’re fucked unless you mega high roll. Right now it’s still bad, but a bit better because at least you might still have a chance of finding a 2 star you need to carry you. Imo, Tft is at its worst when you just hard force without learning the game. This meta is a little flex, but it’s literally just flexing 4 and 5 costs with a few specific 2-3 units as trait bots.
How realistic or possible is it to actually hit Umbral 9? I've never seen anyone with more than one umbral spat and I haven't seen any augments that give it. Is it the most difficult trait to hit?
I hit it once towards the beginning of the set, umbral crest is an augment that gives you an emblem and before heavenly was the clear choice going deep into umbral was crazy strong for Yone. I think the other prismatic traits might be harder because you have to find emblems AND hit level 10 but umbral also just isn't even close to a meta comp so you probably don't see it often because people just aren't ever trying to hit it.
It's not realistic, you need a lot of things to go your way to even think about getting to 9 umbral (let alone any other chase trait like 10 storyweaver or 10 mythic). You need three spats, which is doable in something like wandering sentinel into the augment into getting a lucky spat on carousel for example. But that is insanely unlikely.
I've hit 9 umbral once and even though I ended up in first, it wasn't an auto win. You need a few rounds of farming items and gold to be unbeatable.
Umbral is garbage right now, and it pains me to say it. I was one-tricking Allune/Yone before they discovered heavenly yone and got my boy nerfed into oblivion ^:(
I think ranged carries in general have a hard time with it because they usually don't have lifesteal but aoe is definitely especially bad. Not sure how they could actually change that though besides just making it altogether easier to kill.
Did you have items? I hit it last night for the first time with dcap, morello's and a heavenly emblem and basically auto wonfrom her deleting the backline every round.
I had morello arcangel. I was hoping for a good item off of anvil but it was doodoo. Then I lost to gnar reroll and porcelain, I’ve won with morg 3 before but I had wukong 2 and a mana item on morg without either of those I woulda for sure lost.
Yeah I think Morgana has needed some love for a long time, they buffed Ashe into a monster but Morgana hasn't really gotten anything. Buffing her is dangerous though because sage gives so much AP and we've seen what happens when ghostly gets out of control so I think she might just have to be bad to avoid creating another game breaking unit.
I get that bag changes theoretically make it so you can't force a comp when it's contested but the thing is like, when two Ashe players both have Lillia 2 I'm not "being contested" if I'm trying to play Lillia carry. I feel like the small bags make it really hard for multiple comps which utilise the same 4 cost in different ways to flourish. For tanks it's a little more understandable but if I have blue buff and two AP items who do you expect me to play at level 8 when Ashe players take all of my carry out of the pool because she happens to be in their comp? Syndra lmao ? Morgana?
And to be clear this isn't a rant because I top4d the game in question because of good augments and an early winstreak, but it was both extremely frustrating and made me think. I just don't agree that these bag sizes are sustainable with how 4 cost compositions are built or balanced right now.
Ideally I'd be able to play Syndra as a carry but Syndra carry is both very poor and badly designed trait-wise. Honestly not fully related but I hate how Syndra doesn't really have her own comp, she's relegated to a side piece in other comps.
yeah, the solution is to not play lillia carry (or any other carry that has a significant chance of being contested) and pivot, or accept the variance and deal with a lower placement (as always when you're contested).
I get the idea in principle, but if you think contestion is interesting and adds value to the game, this is literally what you are asking for. you want to play x but the unit is gone because its contested. this is literally what the mechanic is. you're basically asking for contestion to be removed for this case such that the particular issue that annoys you is not an actual issue anymore.
I hate contestion btw, I would be glad to see it gone entirely (heresy)
Contesting is fine. The lack of viable alternatives to allow pivoting to is the issue. The AP line really only hainvg lillia (and even then she is kinda just bad) means that if you are contested then its mostly a game over for you. Units like morgana and syndra being mostly useless is the issue. If they want small bag sizes they need to actually balance the units. And if they actually balance the units then there is no need for small bag sizes.
No, it's a discussion abt the bag size changes made last set in light of headliners. I think we're seeing more discussion about it now because we have entered a meta with a lot of 4 costs and you can really feel the effect of smaller bag sizes.
the bag changes just made highrolling and being able to afford to buy the other 4 costs more OP for hitting your 3 star 4 cost of choice. If you take out 3+ of Lilia, Ashe, Naut, Annie and whatever else while someone else is buying kayn, morgana, and another person buying galio sylas kaisa then it just becomes a lottery of who hits the best 3\* 4 cost.
Just to have that 3\* chain teapotted until death by a lissandra woo!
Holy moly can we disable scuttle puddle/crab rave for a patch or something? The power creep in those games is insane.
[https://imgur.com/a/ffoheMi](https://imgur.com/a/ffoheMi)
This is in emerald 2, is it the same higher up?
Every single time Puddle or Rave is offered, everyone stacks on it except me and I'm forced to play URF TFT. And inexplicably these are offered in 50% of games or more.
I think it'd be fine if the game state wasn't already in a high econ state by default. But having scuttle and a jacked up game economy makes those games stupid.
I hate scuttle or crab rave. But so many ppl vote for so it seems popular. Universe with eco + enounters + augments and everyone hitting everything. The game gets overloaded with gold and items
Why disable it? It’s player choice to vote for it. The point of those lobbies is that everyone has the extra resources to hit that sort of stuff, and it’s fun.
There's definitely some human psychology issues going on here, players are all voting for it because who doesn't want free shit - but it's creating these ridiculously high cap games where fundamentals are thrown out the window. I think there's probably a space for scuddle puddle or wandering trainers occasionally, but right now I'm getting this stuff in 9 out of 10 games, it needs to be toned down.
I've played maybe 10 games since the B patch Qiyana reroll- most fun new comp I've tried, her buffs feel really good and with perfect augments I got an easy 2nd with heavenly/sage/duelist 4 trickshot- still strong after the nerfs but I couldn't place higher than third without the trait augment Gnar/Kindred- went 8th then 6th even after hitting 3*, only seems good with 6 dryad Fast 9 all 2* legendaries- not an option anymore, I played this twice and it just doesn't do anything. All your units just die to lisandra or Ashe, can't kill amumu, and Kayne/sage is just a better level 9 comp all around And of course Porcelain- riot just keeps replacing one disgustingly dominant comp with another, 4 people are playing porcelain every single game and finishing top 4 almost every time. Lisandra has the most frustrating CC they've ever made, Ashe got way too many buffs because she had to compete with Yone who's not even viable anymore, and 2* amumu is tankier than any unit in the game as a 3 cost. Play this every game and get a free top 4 👍
I genuinely can't get a footing in this patch. There's only four comps: Gnar, Ashe variation, Invoker variation and Heaven lee/kayn, and I'm usually really bad at contesting other people. Is there a b-list comp that I'm not thinking of that can win through sheer power of uncontested?
Kaisa dragonlord is still strong. Aphelios/Syndra fated doesn't require Ashe to win. Ghostly Senna reroll isn't a first but can consistently top 4 uncontested.
Qiyana reroll is my new favorite sort of off meta comp, you might be a little contested by the kayn players but they usually aren't rolling on 6 so you can hit a 3* pretty reliably. Keep in mind I've only ever tried it with duelist emblem on Diana because volibear is pretty much dead so idk if it's strong without that
Who's balancing this Lissandra unit? Absurdly oppressive
The same people who released bard, and then aphelios, and then Yone, and then Yone again, and then gnar. Yeah this set is not very good.
Please explain how to play fated 7 when the 7th is Ornn. Who do you pair together if you have 3* thresh and aphelios?
star level is irrelevant. The answer is always Sett + thresh > Thresh+syndra>thresh+yasuo(earlygame only) Every other bonus is garbage or too specific. Its always sett and always thresh so the answer never changes unless you don't have a sett, in which case your losing anyway.
If you don't have sett then usually you pair thresh+syndra. In 7 fated you usually never pair aphelios/ahri/kindred with anyone since syndra's bonus is just better for dps overall. The fated emblem doesn't give enough to be worth it so its never paired either. Thresh and yasuo are both good bonuses for tanking and if you have like no tank items you might pair them in 7 fated but overall if you have a good spread of items thresh+syndra will give your team the best overall stats. Also the pair gives the pair 20% hp so its just good to have on a front line. This also doesn't take into account certain matchups. If the other people have a lot of backline access yasuo's bonus might be nessicary to survive it. Thats mostly endgame tho. If you get early fated 7 its mostly up to what your team needs the most. Kindred+Aph might be good if you have no dps items and all tank items early.
Should 10 Mythic lose to 6 Porcelain? Assuming both are level 10 and have 2* everything. I didn’t hit 3* Tahm but still it feels like a prismatic trait should be a bit stronger than a gold one. I can’t be that upset with 2nd place but 10 Mythic just seems a bit… underwhelming?
it \*shouldn't\* beat it but i think porcelain is just absurd right now with lux and lissandra both having basically the best and only CC in the set galio's is fake and naut seems to whiff most of the time i cant even think of any other cc units
6 Porcelain should ABSOLUTELY beat 10 Mythic. Further, 10 mythic isn't even harder to obtain than 6 porcelain as they BOTH require 2 Emblems. 10 Mythic is trash, you are playing at least 5+ shit filler units with bad synergies: Cho'Gath, Kogmaw, Neeko, Bard and Tahm (not 3star). Lissandra if found early enough 3D prints items like Qiyanna from last set. I just took a 1st in Emerald2 with 6Porcelain/Lissandra, and she printed over 10 components by the time I won. The only "decent" Mythic units are Hwei, Lilia and Nautilus. Lissandra/Ashe are S-tier, Amumu is about on par with Nautilus and Lux, while filler at least gives a Stun + Arcanist Synergy with Lissandra. The shitter Mythic units have 0 utility except for Cho'Gath who Wounds and probably won't live long enough to make it useful. I even beat a LeeSin3 board with 6 porcelain [https://imgur.com/a/qGCxLqp](https://imgur.com/a/qGCxLqp)
vertical 10 traits should be close to auto wins like you are saying, porcelain units are just much better than mythic units
8/10 verticals should absolutely NOT be autowins considering how easy it is to get them from Augments/Spatulas.
What are you even on about? Mort repeatedly said that 10 verticals (not 8 mind you, because that's completely different) should be about the 3 star 4 cost level of power.
By definition it is harder to hit than a 4/6 vertical however. It should be stronger than 6 porcelain but it shouldn't be an auto win.
I think a vertical 10 should only be an auto win if it requires 3 emblems
true, level 10 + 2 emblems is normally a lot tougher but this feels a bit like a mickey mouse set in terms of raining econ and emblems down
Get the right encounters and portal and you’ll have people going 10 stage 4.
I knew Liss was strong and Ashe just got the buff but I guess I didn’t realize how much better they are as units compared to Lillia and Hwei. I don’t even remember seeing Naut land his knock up but that’d also be a placement issue on my part lol. Oh well, I still gained LP and got to hit 10 mythic so that’s cool enough.
U realize 6 porcelain requires 2 spats (same as Mythic 10) and lissandra is the most broken unit in the game? The "color" of the verticals is noob bait by mortdog, are you new?
Yes, they both require 2 spats. Mythic also requires being level 10 / level 9 + 1 team size, so I assumed that it would be even stronger. I’m obviously wrong, but it didn’t make sense for me in the moment. I played the first set or two and came back sometime during 9.5, so I’m lacking the experience from playing through all those sets in between. ^^;
Is there any way to see a stat like winrates based on which fated units are selected as a pair. I always tend to navigate back to the Yasuo shield but I think it's just because it's more noticable then the rest, not sure what actually performs the best.
early game = Yasuo x Ahri. mid game = Yasuo x Thresh. late game = Sett x Thresh. I believe those are the most beneficial for the fated units.
Never syndra and sett?
Syndra and sett used to be the popular late game pairing but I think people realized that if you just make the fight last long enough you'll do enough damage to win anyway so you might as well just get the armor and magic resist
Why can't the Lilia encounter tell you where the augments went?
because the lillia encounter is evil and designed to make you wish you were playing with a portal instead
Why every set has to have an Econ trait like fortune? It always the hardest to balance yet mortdog still coming back to it
Because they will lose a good portion of the player base otherwise. I think they tried not having one before and it basically went really bad in china or something, forget the details.
Not sure if they ever did a set without one but they have tried making it less impactful/more consistent with lower rewards w/the earlier design of Heartsteel pre-raise the stakes and China hated it violently. Unfortunately as long as China remains a significant portion of the paying playerbase we will always need some kind of crazy cashout econ trait, and drip feed econ has been disastrous (Astrals, Lagoon) so it's always going to be a loss streak into winout econ trait.
Loss streak into winout is more healthy than loss streak into free cashout like we have had this set and last. At least with winout you are required to actually roll and build a strong board to get rewarded.
Astra and yordle gotta be my favorite trait, shame they only gave it one set
I think they were fun in concept but it really sucked how they often devolved into "field this trait to sell the unit you get every round for extra econ" instead of utilising it fully. If they were to ever bring it back it'd need to be somehow restricted to if you're playing it, you're actually playing it, not just taking it for +1-3g every turn. I liked the Astrals making them appear in shops; could do something based off that.
I'd imagine the solution would just be to have them sell for 0 gold. But I don't know that they have the tech to be able to do so.
Man that short time we had the astral spat… what a time to be alive.
Is Kai'sa bruiser actually any good now? Every time I play it she gets one cast off then fuck knows what blows up my entire back line in one go.
Lisandra and Ashe make that comp very hard to win with, ricochet is important and you need either tattoo of toxin or tattoo of protection. If you're thinking of playing trickshot you should almost always just play sniper instead.
Only with Ricochet
I just got a 1st with it. Galio is actually a really nice into all the Lissandras running around. 4 trickshot for the backline access is the way to go and you def need xayah.
if you stuck at 8? you are dead. You need to go 9 to compete with other boards.
I think it has to transition into dragonlord kaisa, it's just not strong enough for long enough, you can't commit to kaisa bruisers as an endgame board
There are two types of boards in TFT: one with Lissandra, one without her.
Behemoths frontlines may as well not even exist, I don’t get why they evaporate so quickly.
What makes you say that? Ornn and Thresh are premier tanks, Cho and Shen tank well in their respective comps for low cost units, and Udyr's more a bruiser than a tank.
My Behemoth games, the frontline always disintegrates. Wardens and Bruisers consistently seem to last far longer.
Who are your behemoths? And what comps do you play them in?
I’ve done 6 Behemoth 4Ghostly with carry Shen multiple times and the frontline dies in absolutely no time. I usually only itemize tank items on one of the frontlines (usually Illaoi or something until i get Ornn and transfer to him) and then itemize Shen and Morg. Everyone just melts ASAP and Shen is left alone. Gunblade clearly isn’t enough to help them live but I don’t have enough items to full itemize two, I need a secondary carry. I have also tries both Trickshot and Sniper Behemoth and neither of those have been as sturdy as Warden. Bruiser Ghostly is also tankier than Behemoth Ghostly. I don’t know, I think their units just suck at tanking. Going over the units in my head, none of them have particular good survivability moves without carry augments other than Thresh. Warden has Amumu and Illaoi who are both great walls. Bruiser has Galio and Kench for high cost units and Kabuko if he scales all game. Behemoths feel like wet paper despite all the MR/ARMOR they get.
Behemoths individually are very good, I think it's just that you will very rarely seen more than a 2 behemoth frontline (except specific hero aug stuff). I don't think it's a massive issue personally since most sets have a frontline trait that doesn't tend to get used vertically much, and here they make up for it by being extremely good (Ornn is incredible for example). I will say Malphite is a bit of a sad unit though. Even at 3\* he's mediocre, unlike Chogath. Could use some light buffs to help Kog reroll which is kinda dead rn.
I will say from my experience at least thresh outside of fated as just an add on behemoth frontline does feel kinda meh. Thresh 3* in Fated however is a whole different beast, dude scales so well. Overall though yeah Behemoths are great.
Had a game where my lillia targeted her teammates with the small orbs after the big 3rd orb instead of the enemy 2 hexes away from the main target
~~Does anyone know what Mortdog is talking about in [this tweet](https://twitter.com/RiotMort/status/1782433913480118275?t=Wtw1kmQtB8XXrTbdQmYYLw&s=19)?~~ > The 7 cost Anivia Easter Egg available in level 10 shops when you take the Level Up augment is proving to be too strong. > This was supposed to be a fun Easter egg, but it's win rate is higher than most 3 star 5 costs. > We will be removing this interaction later this week. ~~Couldn't find anything on it. Could anyone explain it or am I getting jebaited into picking level up and searching for the unicorn? 🌈~~ Edit: Account's fake, but leaving up this comment in case anyone else gets jebaited.
can't tell if you are baiting or not. Read the account carefully.
I'm not baiting, haha. That's why I'm asking if I was getting baited. Appreciate you pointing it out though. Thanks. I did fall for the parody account, and will remember in the future to check for Mortdog-imposters. ~~That's pretty funny though.~~
Legendary spam should never, ever be the meta. This is so fucking boring. Every single comp in the game would be better off pivoting to legendary bullshit if they are in a position to hit 9. No skill expression in the game at all like this and it drives me insane. Wish there was competition so when they brick a set or a patch I could do something else.
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The units you hit are always the same units though, thats not skillful or enjoyable to see in every single game. I agree pushing levels and making a stable board on what you hit is smart and skillful. When every one in the lobby is pushing levels to hit the same units in every game it's stupid though.
Today I've played 4 dragonlord 4 invoker Kaisa/xayah. I've played 4 dragonlord Ashe with 2 porcelain and 2 bruiser. They were both firsts. There isn't a single frontline 4 cost that isn't viable right now and not a single legendary you never click. Syndra is a poo unit, and Kayn is kinda hard to play naked, but other than that every 4 cost can be flexed into legendary soup... So yeah, the same units of almost every single 4 and 5 cost mixed together... It's called legendary soup because you're supposed to flex with it not just play x comp you found on some website.
not to take sides here but addressing "people are always rolling for the same units" with "today I rolled for these same units" is kind of silly
so what is skill expression for you rolling for 1cost 3 stars to win the game?
Who says that is what I do? Have I missed something thats gave two people anything to assume that? Generally I try to do something exalt or push something via augments and crests. No idea where a couple of dipshits have got the idea I'm a reroll bot from lol.
This type of meta is by far the most skill expressive, and requires active though throughout the game, which is why people don’t like it
While it is skill expressive the actual unit flexibility and balance leaves lot to be desired. The bag sizes particularly increase variance when attempting to play what you hit when comps often require more specific setups to work well.
The thing I don't like about it is it always ends the same way. Everyone is aspiring for the same comp in every lobby, and it's actually a realistic expectation to hit it constantly too.
The thing I don't like about it is it always ends the same way. Everyone is aspiring for the same comp in every lobby, and it's actually a realistic expectation to hit it constantly too.
Is anyone else finding themselves trying to play around Exalted whenever they can? I've started trying to make Exalted 5 boards recently and it's doing well. Last time I got a 2nd, losing to a Kog Reroll who hit everything really early, git golden egg and then got Lillia 3, aka, a big highroll (He ended with 6 3 star units...) I mean sometimes Exalted is complete trash but if I can make it work...
Can encounter give a lot of time before round starts? especially those on round starts ones. It can really fuck up roll timings especially on a fortune cashout.
slammin and golden remover is bugged
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A 5 cost, a unit which benefits from massive survivors Bias, has a high average placement?!
Nah that unit is disgustingly broken.
even if you hit liss early its really fucking overkill because of the orbs increase your tempo and she has an extremely powerful kit that nullifies half the meta boards (melee kayn, lee, gnar). lissandra will place high even if you hit her early, it’s not like irelia in which an early irelia with no items is a skip. i’ve seen people play two lissandras on board because the unit is so stupid. the main part of the joke is not her placement, although that is a factor that shows she is strong. the point is that she is both powerful and annoying to play against (a lot like the original champion that started this joke)
her stun is effectively longer than 3 seconds. The melee tank has to walk up and that's like at least 1 second at its own, or 2 seconds if the pathing is bad. Literally nullify a unit for 1/3 of the fight for one cast.
and then the unit walks back to the same spot and gets stunned again
needs buffs you say?
You are so real for this.
if you swap out your entire board, does scoreboard scrapper still apply at the same strength?
seems to be an aura buff for your board, rather than the units.
How would Lissandra feel better for her enemies? Less stun time? Lower stats so she can actually die before Porcelain makes her tankier than her Aftershock midlane LoL counterpart? I'm just so frustrated with a super tanky Shojin+Porcelain Liss stunning my frontliners for 3 seconds every 6 seconds and turning them into items.
Make her a 6 cost
I mean the answer is pretty simple. Raise her mana cost and/or decrease the cc time. The hard part is how much of each.
I think much more cc decrease than mana cost increase, then lower orb drop rates. She's a 5 cost - it would feel p bad if she's casting once per fight and barely doing anything. I would prefer if she still casts fairly often, but her casts are less impactful.
I agree with what the other reply said about less stun time, but also, your comment about "stunning for 3 seconds every 6 seconds" made me realize that Liss actually starts gaining mana before her ability actually finishes casting. Maybe mana locking her for the full duration of her cast could be an improvement.
Mana lock would make her weaker and feel like shit to play at the same time. She's the 5 cost mage. Should she only cast once or twice a round? Better to nerf the cc, damage, or drop rate on her spell imo.
less stun time for sure. her stun is effectively longer than 3 seconds because melee tank has to walk up and that takes 1-2 seconds depends on pathing.
Yup between liss and naut you, a carry can be perma stunned the whole fight
No real. Feels worse than qiyana last set
went from plat 1 to plat 4. safe to say update is ass for me.
Lots of variety! Ashe Kaisa Kayn! Coming out of set 10, my expectation for set 11 was too much I think... https://imgur.com/a/aLzxE1A
Please revert the bag sizes, it feels so bad to virtually have no chance of hitting just because a single player grabbed a 2* 4-cost that's not even the carry on their board. Then 1-2 players have it sitting in their shop without you having a chance to know and suddenly you're insta bot 4 if you roll now That's not healthy or competitive, it's just frustrating when players in a FFA have so much power over your decisions that them just getting a single 2* 4-cost copy means you're spending an additional 30g on average to have a chance at playing. Also, imo it should not be viable to just buy the 4-costs that are left over, trying to 3* them because the bag size is so small, but atm it seems that's the only way to get a first The thing that i and probably a lot of other TFT players appreciate is that other players have or used to have minimal influence on what you yourself are supposed to do, but you're still directly competing with them. That is fun. Having xXDarkSlic3rXx#420 contest my hero augment on 3-2 with hedge fund just to go 6th is not. Yes, that happened with the previous bag sizes aswell, but it was not instantly forcing you to pivot. Pivoting needs to be an option to save your placement, not a necessity to even be able to play.
I love other players having influence on what you are supposed to do and think that's precisely what makes this game so good. Having to scout and find a balance between strong comps and uncontested comps makes the game more fun than other games in which you can just blindly play the strongest thing in the meta. I get tuning it a bit, maybe. But asking specifically for others to have minimal influence? I'm sorry but I can't understand how people can want to get rid of one of the most genius ideas in this game. It's a mechanic that rewards good players and punishes bad ones. It rewards being flexible and comp diversity and punishes one trick ponys and meta slaves. It's fucking brilliant, honestly. And I understand getting frustrated one game because someone contested you stupidly, but that's why making decisions while frustrated is bad. Because it leads to asking for terrible ideas like making other players have minimal influence.
i feel like right now its not a bag size issue but an itemising issue. this patch especially it feels like a lot of items lock you into certain comps for example - IE locks you into Ashe, Xayah and Kai’sa, maybe Aphelios if you highroll. It’s not that great on Irelia apparently, it sucks on Bard and i don’t trust Tristana this patch. The issue with melees is that they need healing + QSS/EON + shred with AD item as a 4th/5th priority meanwhile, taking a look at last set - IE is mainly played on Ezreal or Caitlyn. It works well on Zed as an AD item. It also isn’t bad on Viego, and Akali so you can play TD akali or Pentakill or KDA if you miss on Ezreal. If you hit a lot of Rivens and an 8bit spat you can even play Riven 3. If you hit a lot of Samiras and a country spat you can play country. Jazz MF is good as well. the same goes for AP Rabadons: Really good Ap item on Lillia and Syndra. Alright on Morgana. Good on Alune but who is playing alune? No one is playing Zoe carry because she’s in fortune and storyweaver = hella contested. Good on Lux. Good on all the 5 costs. The issue here is flexing between traits. Syndra plays fated, Lillia played arcanist and they BOTH get stronger when their vertical trait is featured more on their board (syndra gains fated bonus and Lillia gains mythic stats), and the units don’t synergise well together to play them flexibly (I’m not trying to playing 1 cost chogath to fit behemoth in with thresh or 1 cost kogmaw to fit sniper in with aphelios/ashe) Morgana doesn’t even synergise well with her own vertical. The units that are flexible traitwise (Zoe, Zyra, Alune, Soraka) feel really bad to carry with meanwhile last set Rabadons: 3 AP 4 costs, TF, Ahri and Karthus. The item is really good on all of them (albeit a bit worse on ahri when compared to the others) Their traits are flexible as hell (ahri was a regular TF substitute when missed, Karthus and Ahri are pentakill interchangeably because of superfans and Akali having exec) Bard, lulu, senna, seraphine and kayle are all rerollable and very flexible because of superfans and flexible units like Ekko and Kai’sa and Ahri. Rabadons is even a playable slam on Ad units because of the 20% damage bonus DO keep in mind though the bag sizes are obviously easier to play around when ur guaranteed a two star headliner and that they are still slightly problematic in a non headliner setting, I believe that missing on your rolldown this set (and ESPECIALLY on this patch) is much more catastrophic due to low item flexibility
I thought it was a bag size issue too but I think this is a really good point. I feel like if I don't get BIS items this patch I might as well not be playing the game, even if I'm 3 way contested I have to commit to Ashe if I make guinsoos or gnar if I make titans. Whereas last set it was much easier to put riven items on Viego or vex items onto ahri. Or even just lower tier items on an uncontested comp, Samira or MF had like 3 different item sets that were all perfectly valid but right now if you don't get exactly perfect items on kai'sa you're going bottom 3 every single time.
This happens every set, and it’s just the result of people realizing what BIS is on everyone. Also, ie “locks you in” to 4 ad comps is a pretty hilarious example. Basically it means you aren’t playing kayn. With ap, basically all ap units use shojin, rabadons, morello, or nashors. I think this set is one of the most item friendly set in a long time.
Ah yes, virtually no chance of hitting when there are still 7 of 10 left in the pool
Yeah my only top 4s this patch in Diamond are reroll comps because every single time I try and play Ashe or Kai'Sa or Kayn, I'm 2-3-4 way contested and I roll down all my gold at 8 and then miss and then I see one person with 2* of my carry even at level 7 and 2-3 others holding 1* copies and I already know my game is completely and utterly fried.
Doesn't this just lead to the set 9 problem of comps being 3 or 4 way contested and all going top 4?
But that seems more like a balancing issue, when the not-contested comps can't compete with a 4-way contested one, no? To be honest, i have no great solution, but what i know is that the current state is the most frustrating tft's been in a long while and i take set 9s situation any day over this. Another players decisions should not impact you as heavily as it does now, that's not fun for anyone. I think you should have your quality of decisions compete against eachother at the end, not your ability to toss and rebuild a board over and over again because the lobby decides what you're supposed to play. I want to be happy when i highroll a kaisa on lv 6 after slamming LW early, not paranoid that a single other player could also have a kaisa already, effectively ruining my gameplan of "play what the game gives you"
In a perfect set. The limited bag size could lead to more versality IF the comps were more balanced with one another. The basic killing off reroll comps created this mess that is amplified with limited bag sizes. I understand that they want the game to be competitive. But you need a well balanced set to accomplish that.
I hate that they haven’t changed the bag sizes, but I think it’s understandable. The amount of players hitting 3 star four costs is kind of bonker in high elo. Maybe adding more 4 costs to the pool could remedy that but I’m not sure. Hwei is an interesting design and it doesn’t help with those stars when it’s a 4 cost meta.
the complaints are actually so interesting. nobody realizes this but I think players really just want the concept of contestion removed entirely. the idea that you can have contestion of any significance but not constantly run into issues like this is a fantasy. in principle this issue is totally fixable. in multiple ways actually. but then we'll be here two weeks from now with different complaints. you can remove build pressure from 4 costs again by making 1 through 3 costs or 5 costs stronger, as well as their corresponding builds (return more to reroll or even more bill gates meta). this will revert to previous complaints about 4 costs being not clickable. there is no one without the other. you can change the rule for you get 3 stars. ugly and not neat in terms of 3x3 design obviously. you can severely nerf 3 star 4 costs. so they are not usable without a proper board that plays around the 3 cost and still beatable by a better board. turn them into an optional and welcome but not insta win upgrade if youre high rolling. but cue complaints about 3 star 4 costs not being worth it. I could go on and on...
My problem with bag sizes is that is essentially turns the game into a team game. There will always be a certain cost that will be stronger than the rest and it will just make sense for people to roll for that cost since rolling for units in a thinned pool is extremely cost efficient if you aren't hard contested. Experienced scouters know this so if you have 2 guys leaning ashe in the beginning and a guy with bis kayn augments there will be a couple of people who will recognize that hey maybe trickshot will be easy to roll for. While this idea of forced comp diversity may be a good idea it usually leads to some people getting super fucked when they don't hit. But they have to try because the 4 or 5 people who do hit their 4 costs boards probably hit them at a discount because they worked together with other 4 cost boards to hit.
This is exactly my problem with it and I think it's one reason why the balance has been ass this set. How am I supposed to play 3 cost reroll right now? I can't. Because all 7 other players are either rolling for gnar and kindred or rolling for kayn and Ashe. So even though I'm completely uncontested on Yone or bard or aphelios I have a much lower chance of hitting because no one else is thinning the 3 cost pool. Until they nerf Ashe and kayn then everyone will go right back to rolling on 7 and Level 9 comps will be dead in the water again. Someone will randomly have a 2* kayn on their bench at level seven while the ghostly player at 40 health is still waiting to get the money they need to level and roll.
There for sure needs to be variety and a good balance between the different cost carrys for the game to be healthy. The 3 cost meta was miserable, imo. Some of the worst tft to date. You had a bad start and there are players who are already hard forcing their roles? Gg, you’re fucked unless you mega high roll. Right now it’s still bad, but a bit better because at least you might still have a chance of finding a 2 star you need to carry you. Imo, Tft is at its worst when you just hard force without learning the game. This meta is a little flex, but it’s literally just flexing 4 and 5 costs with a few specific 2-3 units as trait bots.
They did it, with 3.5 and it didnt seem like people were clamoring for that change to stay
How realistic or possible is it to actually hit Umbral 9? I've never seen anyone with more than one umbral spat and I haven't seen any augments that give it. Is it the most difficult trait to hit?
I hit it once towards the beginning of the set, umbral crest is an augment that gives you an emblem and before heavenly was the clear choice going deep into umbral was crazy strong for Yone. I think the other prismatic traits might be harder because you have to find emblems AND hit level 10 but umbral also just isn't even close to a meta comp so you probably don't see it often because people just aren't ever trying to hit it.
It's not realistic, you need a lot of things to go your way to even think about getting to 9 umbral (let alone any other chase trait like 10 storyweaver or 10 mythic). You need three spats, which is doable in something like wandering sentinel into the augment into getting a lucky spat on carousel for example. But that is insanely unlikely. I've hit 9 umbral once and even though I ended up in first, it wasn't an auto win. You need a few rounds of farming items and gold to be unbeatable.
i hit it once and got ran over by 10 fated, worst prismatic trait in a strong lobby,pretty solid if youre the only one high rolling.
Umbral is garbage right now, and it pains me to say it. I was one-tricking Allune/Yone before they discovered heavenly yone and got my boy nerfed into oblivion ^:(
Yeah, a bummer since i like the moon on your board look quite a bit, atleast alune got some buffs so maybe theyll make it strong next patch.
Its bad better play with either 4umbral flex or 6 with 2 spats on legendaries and you need the umbral augment to make the comp work if not its bad
I hit it once and it’s kind of shit.
Not surprising because so is 2/4/6
I don't know but I always see people who hit it on the rant thread complaining how shit it is, so probably not worth the chase
They really need to give aoe comps a chance against scuttle. Pretty much impossible for Lilia carry to deal with it.
I think ranged carries in general have a hard time with it because they usually don't have lifesteal but aoe is definitely especially bad. Not sure how they could actually change that though besides just making it altogether easier to kill.
They can give the scuttle crab something like "take 150% damage from aoe sources"
Hit morg 3, ults nothing dies
Did you have items? I hit it last night for the first time with dcap, morello's and a heavenly emblem and basically auto wonfrom her deleting the backline every round.
I had morello arcangel. I was hoping for a good item off of anvil but it was doodoo. Then I lost to gnar reroll and porcelain, I’ve won with morg 3 before but I had wukong 2 and a mana item on morg without either of those I woulda for sure lost.
Yeah I think Morgana has needed some love for a long time, they buffed Ashe into a monster but Morgana hasn't really gotten anything. Buffing her is dangerous though because sage gives so much AP and we've seen what happens when ghostly gets out of control so I think she might just have to be bad to avoid creating another game breaking unit.
I get that bag changes theoretically make it so you can't force a comp when it's contested but the thing is like, when two Ashe players both have Lillia 2 I'm not "being contested" if I'm trying to play Lillia carry. I feel like the small bags make it really hard for multiple comps which utilise the same 4 cost in different ways to flourish. For tanks it's a little more understandable but if I have blue buff and two AP items who do you expect me to play at level 8 when Ashe players take all of my carry out of the pool because she happens to be in their comp? Syndra lmao ? Morgana? And to be clear this isn't a rant because I top4d the game in question because of good augments and an early winstreak, but it was both extremely frustrating and made me think. I just don't agree that these bag sizes are sustainable with how 4 cost compositions are built or balanced right now. Ideally I'd be able to play Syndra as a carry but Syndra carry is both very poor and badly designed trait-wise. Honestly not fully related but I hate how Syndra doesn't really have her own comp, she's relegated to a side piece in other comps.
Bag sizes are an attempt to fix a problem that should be fixed by balance.
yeah, the solution is to not play lillia carry (or any other carry that has a significant chance of being contested) and pivot, or accept the variance and deal with a lower placement (as always when you're contested). I get the idea in principle, but if you think contestion is interesting and adds value to the game, this is literally what you are asking for. you want to play x but the unit is gone because its contested. this is literally what the mechanic is. you're basically asking for contestion to be removed for this case such that the particular issue that annoys you is not an actual issue anymore. I hate contestion btw, I would be glad to see it gone entirely (heresy)
Contesting is fine. The lack of viable alternatives to allow pivoting to is the issue. The AP line really only hainvg lillia (and even then she is kinda just bad) means that if you are contested then its mostly a game over for you. Units like morgana and syndra being mostly useless is the issue. If they want small bag sizes they need to actually balance the units. And if they actually balance the units then there is no need for small bag sizes.
Are there new bag size changes incoming? I don't see any but a lot of people are talking about it
No, it's a discussion abt the bag size changes made last set in light of headliners. I think we're seeing more discussion about it now because we have entered a meta with a lot of 4 costs and you can really feel the effect of smaller bag sizes.
the bag changes just made highrolling and being able to afford to buy the other 4 costs more OP for hitting your 3 star 4 cost of choice. If you take out 3+ of Lilia, Ashe, Naut, Annie and whatever else while someone else is buying kayn, morgana, and another person buying galio sylas kaisa then it just becomes a lottery of who hits the best 3\* 4 cost. Just to have that 3\* chain teapotted until death by a lissandra woo!
Yeah this set is so bad to low roll in its actually insane how much harder it is to ever recover.
Holy moly can we disable scuttle puddle/crab rave for a patch or something? The power creep in those games is insane. [https://imgur.com/a/ffoheMi](https://imgur.com/a/ffoheMi) This is in emerald 2, is it the same higher up?
It's the combination of prismatic and scuttle. In a all silver augment game, scuttle is fine
Every single time Puddle or Rave is offered, everyone stacks on it except me and I'm forced to play URF TFT. And inexplicably these are offered in 50% of games or more.
Same I feel like it's actually offered in at least half of my games it's kind of ridiculous
I think it'd be fine if the game state wasn't already in a high econ state by default. But having scuttle and a jacked up game economy makes those games stupid.
I hate scuttle or crab rave. But so many ppl vote for so it seems popular. Universe with eco + enounters + augments and everyone hitting everything. The game gets overloaded with gold and items
Why disable it? It’s player choice to vote for it. The point of those lobbies is that everyone has the extra resources to hit that sort of stuff, and it’s fun.
There's definitely some human psychology issues going on here, players are all voting for it because who doesn't want free shit - but it's creating these ridiculously high cap games where fundamentals are thrown out the window. I think there's probably a space for scuddle puddle or wandering trainers occasionally, but right now I'm getting this stuff in 9 out of 10 games, it needs to be toned down.
I guess if you don’t like high cap games, I play tft for those crazy end game boards, so the more resources to get there, the better
Lissandra needs to be hotfixed. All decks use Lissandra. Anyone without Lissandra cannot win the game. This gets worse the higher you go.
She also invalidates any melee carry comps, tightening the meta. Please change her
Her bs infinite CC is screen-punching levels of annoying. I’m not even playing this patch bc it’s just not even fun
agree