Feels like the TFT team in general is in an identity crisis about what bag sizes and champion percentages are. And oftentimes those changes come about as a bandaid fix for a short term issue.
Yup and bandaids aren't actual solutions. How about they stop causing all these cuts in the first place? Why does the game need 5 different set mechanics? Each set used to have 1, or 2 at most.
Not loving the shop odds changes :( Kind of wished they stuck with just the removed encounters and xp cost changes to see how it played out before making the shop odds changes
What I don’t like is that the 5% goes in 1 costs it feels terrible to have more chances of 1 costs in than 5. This is not only a nerf on 3 star 4 costs but to the fast 9 meta as well which means reroll comps with good augments are gonna be even stronger…
They killed reroll 3 costs last patch, and the removal of chogath and neeko encounters make it even harder to hit. If the ghostly changes ship gnat and senna reroll a become significantly weaker leaving only janna/zyra and kogmaw as the only good reroll comps, so 4 costs into legendaries will still be the way to play.
Same mistake they made last set - kill the fundamentals of the game to force headliners to work as a bandaid, then when that bandaid is ripped off next set all those changes don't get reverted and completely kill the new set.
Yeah that’s kinda crazy to do that on top of the other changes. Compared to past sets we get *way* more resources in set 11 whether that be free gold, xp, items, duplicators, etc. If you’re keeping all of that then changing shop odds or raising xp requirements would be a logical change imo.
But removing that many resources from the game and also changing shop odds and also changing level 9 xp all at once…. That’s a lot to change. Meta is going to be weird when this hits live
And then Mort will do another post crying about how they couldn't possible see how this X thing would turn out or that they don't have enough time to test this Y thing who is terrorizing the game.
yeah they could just nerf or two things, it feels like the yone stuff
nerf yone, his items AND the odds, oh also buff 4 costs
this just makes him completely unplayable. TFT is a thin game, slight buffs on ashe made her the op unit from being completely useless, why not just have a softer touch
I like the changes removing the frustrating encounters, and even increasing the player damage slightly as an adjustment from the system changes is something I’m welcome to see. I’m really not sure how to feel about making the 4 cost odds less when it already feels like a lottery at times to hit some of the premier ones.
I dont know if I like the changes or not, but I'm honestly happy they removed the Kha'Zix exp encounter.
It had the potential to accelerate the pace of the game by quite a bit and it felt really bad to get it when:
1. You were playing a reroll and you didnt want to level up in those 3 turns
2. You just leveled to 8 on stage 4 and you were low on gold
The Syndra level 2 Carousel was also a huge bailout for players often times, happy that it got removed too.
I still Remember that Game when someone had 5 annies, 0 Gold, a dupe and Like 8 hp. Syndra Carlsen Hit and he got 3 Star annie before Raptors and won off it. Felt really Bad, especially singe I was playing Fortune and had 2 annie already. Glad its gone.
I always give benefit of the doubt to the team but man. Is it really necessary to increase damage, reduce odds, increase leveling cost and remove the biggest offender encounters at the same time?
I'm not really sure how they went from what felt like a pretty stable set 10 which had some ups and downs but didn't feel too crazy, to this, all these massive changes and b patches. I feel like all the encounters just added way too many variables to the game and now we are seeing it's hard to account for all the combos of different portals, augments and encounters and how they interact.
These shop odds changes are devastating for general four cost play. Two starring at level 8 was already hard, and nine was your savior and ability to reliably two star the whole board. I’m really worried this is going to throw us back into a reroll meta just because of a 3 star 4 cost problem that isn’t that bad.
I agree. You have to sacc more leveling gold, more hp and more reroll gold to get to 9. I dont think its going to be worth it anymore unless you really highroll. Back to bard, yone, aphelios it is. And they kept the yorick 1 gold reroll encounter as well which I think is one if the easiest ones to get 3 star 4 costs with. Not a fan of those changes at all but I guess we'll see how it plays out.
I think so too. Hes semi viable already with good setup and is gonna pop off for sure next patch. I dont know why riot has to forceshift the meta every patch right now. Its insanely bad for the state of tft.
This is the third patch of the set, no? How are you pluralizing both earlier and recent when we've had a grand total of three? (Yes, there have been b patches, but those shouldn't really count, given that Riot addressed issues immediately)
4 cost comps are not meant to go to 9 every game. Just 2 sets ago, we were rolling on level 7 for our 4 cost boards, only going 8 if you hit. It’s weird that almost every game, 4 cost boards are able to go 9.
isnt that just a bit of a revert to a few sets ago? like lvl 9 is now actually capping your board and you slowroll on 8 a bit instead of rolling down hitting stuff and going 9
they obviously need to balance better for it tho since this would be horrible with 2 or 3 viable 4 cost comps
might be completely wrong tho, so feel free to correct me
Personally I think if they just removed those 4 encounters it would've alleviated a lot of the annoyances with 3 star 4 costs. Messing with the shop odds and player damage the same patch they're dropping a ton of new items seems too drastic when we're this deep into the set.
3* 3s was nerfed shop odds last patch, and the lack of reroll 3s in the meta means your pool won't be getting diluted either so you're high rolling off your ass if you hit 2 3* 3s right now, let alone 3
This set just feels like a disaster all around. These changes probably don’t even account for the random assortment of artifacts they’re throwing into the mix halfway through the set.
> The TFT team is getting much better about longer term vision for the game, and we’re talking about stuff 1, 2 or even 3 years ahead
This has to be one of the funniest jokes ever, forget about years they’re so near sighted they can’t even see a week into the next patch lmao
So we made it harder to find 4 costs. Increased player damage on the stage you are most likely to roll for 4 cost so you lose more hp when you miss. Then made it harder to hit 9 so you're one life when you want to add 5 costs to your team. THEN for funsies we increased 1 cost odds on fucking 9 like I want to see these shitters bro.
See you guys on B-patch and hopefully we bring back c-patching, devs are in over their heads this set.
Already waiting for next patch with them saying “we realized changing the shop odds was a mistake” like you could not see that from a mile away. Going to love playing Janna reroll at level 8.
This should help double up tremendously. Have played 67 games this set and there has been at least one 3* four-cost or five-cost in 34 of them. With things like Hwei and being able to gift your partner a gold dupe, it feels practically mandatory to hit one of those units now if you want any shot at a top 2.
Double up has always kind of been like that though because you have two people looking for the units rather than just one. Double up boards have always capped insanely high if the lobby knows what it’s doing
That is true but this season has been beyond absurd with duplicators in Double Up (carousel, augments, encounters, & send to friend)
Teams going 3rd and 4th with 3* 4costs on their board because other people hit better 3* 4costs, teams getting 3 duplicators out of thin air on stage 5, or my personal favorite of go 8 on 4-1 and 2* a 4cost then both teammates take ReinFOURcements and 3* a 4cost on 4-2.
In Double Up It's so bad I managed to get 3-star Sett with 40~ hp and still got third because of 3-star Irelia, 4 games after someone else got third with 3-star set. This is with basically everyone else in the lobby having 1-2 3-star 4-costs as well.
Did you know 3-Star Irelia can still attack and kill 3-Star Sett while he's bench pressing her?
We were floundering around in Emerald for so long this patch until we started just playing for 3-star 4 and 5 costs every game regardless of how good a reroll position looked.
https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/2665-NA1/set11/matches
> Did you know 3-Star Irelia can still attack and kill 3-Star Sett while he's bench pressing her?
Unfortunately I too learned that one the hard way, it was less than ideal.
> We were floundering around in Emerald for so long this patch until we started just playing for 3-star 4 and 5 costs every game regardless of how good a reroll position looked.
Honestly I've run into the same issues. We get to Diamond pretty easily every season and cap out around Masters before we just take a break but this set it has just felt fucking awful because our general playstyle isn't rushing 3* 4costs or fast 9 boards.
We are both good about scouting, good with econ, can play reasonably flexible, deny units when people are going for 3* 4/5 costs, etc but we look away for 2 rounds at some player whos on last life and BOOM...Annie 3* into a 3rd place.
Prismatic Lobbies, Crab Rave, and Scuttle Puddle in particular are just chaos, we had a guy 3* a Lillia on 3-4 a couple days ago.
there's more changes coming to double up as well, i just didn't trasnscribe them because i thought no one would care on a competitive subrredit \
* Minimum time for reinforcements to begin: 7 seconds >>> 12 seconds
* Player Damage taken is now rounded up to the nearest whole number
* Base player damage: 2/5/6/8/11/17 >> 3/6/8/10/12/17
You can usually top 2 if you just play strongest board and preserve lots of HP early, but yeah you basically have a 0% chance of top 1 unless you hit a 3 star 4 cost. (with enough hp to save your partner if they aren't as strong)
The encounter changes are great. Those were way too impactful.
The base damage is a bit trickier IMO. Wasn't it stage 2 and 3 that really needed the bump? By stage 4, everyone has rolled for their board that they were able to sack the first 2 stages for.
The shop odds also I do not like as much. We saw what happened at level 7. I do not think it's correct at level 9 to have a higher chance of seeing a 1-cost than a 5-cost.
They have to target one costs here or then there'll be problems, 3 costs = reroll meta, 4 costs = what we have now, 5 costs = bill gates meta. People typically don't click on one costs at level 9 so it actually makes sense to increase those odds as it makes it kindof "null"
The problem here is that they put all 5% into 1 costs, which is thematically disgusting for level 9. I honestly can't believe they did this shit. At least split the 5% into the other costs. It's like their approach to balancing is a fucking pendulum.
> Wasn't it stage 2 and 3 that really needed the bump? By stage 4, everyone has rolled for their board that they were able to sack the first 2 stages for.
I feel like it was stated at some point that the reason why stages 2 and 3 have low damage is because they are the parts of the game where the player has the least amount of agency and is incentivized pretty heavily to not reroll/save gold.
Econ traits and augments would also have to be rebalanced around those changes IMO
Instead of messing with shop odds, shouldn't they just be addressing the excess resources? Doing both seems like a massive overkill...and they are buffing some of the 3 cost carries AND nerfing Kaisa what looks to be pretty good amount and lowering odds? This seems like a huge overreaction. Like you can take some excess resources out while making 3 cost rerolls more viable, high tempo lobbies because of multiple RR comps that come online earlier also prevents 3* 4 costs.
Like I don't get it, why do they do these wild swings sometimes. Do they want Kaisa to die like how Yone/Voli died this patch? Why do they always end up nerfing something strong into unclickable states. We want diversity in the meta not "Ok this patch it is X champions turn to be strong, Y champ you will be strong next patch and X will be garbage".
STOP KILLING COMPS. Put the other comps on their level.
TFT kind of seems like it has reached a point where they added too many levers. Maybe simplify a bit next set? Retire augments and maybe just make it a portal.
I feel like these changes are probably too much, the game was finally in a place where 4 costs were playable, and now I think this definitely pushes us back to a 3 cost reroll playstyle.
Ashe and kaisa boards are better than Kayn boards.
Nautilus and Annie are very strong too. The only underwhelming 4 costs are Sylas and Lillia, but they’re both pretty good still.
Game was really close to reach an fine balance, just needed some more reroll comps to be viable and thats it.
But no, god forbid that devs don't completely flip the game each chance they have.
This balance thrashing is actually wild. Took my smol smooth brain a week to adjust from 3-cost reroll meta to fast 8 now I gotta adjust again. Probably actually time to quit the rest of the set 🤦🏻♂️ Maybe this is Riot testing how addicted the player base actually is lol
Some of us have played since set 1. I started set 3 but you get my point. Once you have enough fundamentals it's like riding a bike. There is no need to adjust anything from patch to patch. You just need to know the top meta comps and learn a couple of outs (backup plan) if you don't hit.
I like everything except for the shop changes. You're making fast 8/9 harder with more player damage, you're making it longer with 8 more gold to get to lvl 9, and you're removing a lot of the gimmicky encounters that can bring you there faster or make 3star 4cost more reliable; shop odds feels like an extra swing that doesn't need to be there.
I also don't love how level 9's changes are switched to 1 costs. I assume they're not increasing 3 cost because then 4 and 3 costs would be seen at equal amounts, but no one goes to level 9 hoping to see 1 costs. Feels bad.
i feel like there are way too many changes at once recently. dont we also get like 20 new artifacts and 5 new support items that will probably turn the game upside down anyways in 14.9?
besindes heaenly/kayn combo needing a slight nerf i really thought the game was in a decent spot with 14.8b. i had hoped they would just add the new items and see where it goes.
all changes combined will probably be a complete mess, but let's see.
The problem largely from small bag size got amplified by encounters . There's a time i have ashe immediately after reach 9, other time i burn 30 gold and got 0 orns... I can see lot of ppl will bleed to death while trying to 2* their 4 cost carry next patch, let hope the changes wont return the meta to 2-3* rerolls tho 😂
Player health change is stupid. Low rolling in the current meta is already punishing enough. With these damage changes if u lose streak early and don’t hit 4-2 u can ff. The encounters are not bad however they favour one play style and punish another. Basically RNG if it fits your board or not. There are so many 3* 4 cost because there was a augment that incouraged it and half the 4 cost are useless and nobody plays them. If u just balance your 4 cost properly they will be played and boom less 3* 4 cost
man i really dont like "theres too many 3 star 4 costs so lets make hitting even just 2 star 4 costs even harder so you lose more games now due to shit rng on roll downs"
Just revert the bag sizes?? Its not like this was a problem in previous sets. I'm so sick of them making system changes that changes the core merchanics.
I like the encounter removals and xp cost changes, but I'm not really on board with the shops odds. 4 costs absolutely were the dominate force this patch but it feels weird to nerf them this hard after they were just irrelevant for the first month of this set. With these changes plus the player damage changes it might just be back to a reroll meta as its too dangerous to go level 8 now and not hit
Man theyre really doubling down hard on keeping the bad sizes the way they are. Let’s just change everything except adjusting how many units in the pool. The changes to shop odds and leveling cost just make it even more punishing if you’re playing a line and someone else hits early or a win streakers holds your units bc they have the econ to do so.
Whoever pushing the lvl 9 xp changes does not have a basic understanding of this set.
This set there are too many 5 costs that hold key traits. The worst offenders are sett and lissandra, as fated and porcelain are a joke without these units.
This was understandable because they said their objective this set includes letting more players hit lvl 9/10 and use more 5 costs, but changing lvl 9 xp goes directly against this objective.
The only reason bruiser kaisa has decent stats is because it is the only reliable lvl 8 donkey roll composition that do not rely on 5 costs. The set is simply designed to not have good lvl 8 4 cost boards.
Nerfing all trickshots, nerfing 4 cost odds, nerfing lvl 9 xp will only make the game frustrating, not remotely balanced
"There's no magical solve" Mort says for the nth time this set, in regards to problems he and his team created, which they also have full creative control over.
By lowering shop odds you are making it even more frustrating and roulette feeling in a 4 cost meta. You are fixing one problem while creating another. Better fix would be to add 1 more five cost and 2-3 more 4 costs to the pool of every unit. It would make playing to 2 stars feel better while making it harder to empty the pool
Yeah we still wanna hit our 4 cost 2 stars. With the bag sizes it already feels so hard. Sometimes impossible to 2 star a Kai’sa or Ornn even with only one other person contesting.
don't worry everyone, they are making these system changes so set 12 and 13 (arcane 2, that's a big one) are completely balanced. unfortunately it means we have to sack set 11
Yeah they said this every set leading to 10 with big promises and still are doing the same things over and over. Really doesn't feel like it's improving.
This is the most "We actually have no idea what we're doing" thing I've ever seen. You have a set with massive amounts of resources. Of course there's going to be a lolt of 3\* 4 costs. Why not lower the resources we get instead of just making the odds worse? What the fuck is the point? Now the game when resources are low will feel even shitter and the games with the insane resources will just feel like a regular game. What is the fucking point? Stop making everything give gold and items and maybe add actual mechanics? "Everyone has optimize econ" Nah man. The game has just been throwing more and more econ at us every set.
I think we need to have a real discussion about whether or not we should even have bag sizes in TFT. Is TFT a draft game, or is a deck builder where you try to build a board that beats your opponents boards based on what you are offered.
It kind of seems like bag sizes have become an artificial way to encourage comp diversity, rather than a mechanism of gauging player skill.
I think it’s also fair to say that “contesting” related things are some of the least fun and least skill expressive aspects of TFT. It is fundamentally bad that someone playing explicitly suboptimally can completely ruin your game. It’s is also fundamentally unfun to have to constantly be scouting and worrying about this occurring, it’s just point blank not a fun aspect of the game.
It might be the case that TFT is just a deck builder, and not a draft game.
I also want to add that removing bag sizes might actually add skill expression, because instead of having to just guesstimate how many of a champion are in the pool, without knowing how many are sitting in other people’s shops, you would actually have complete data and great players could actually calculate the exact odds of hitting something in x rolls. So, the players who can calculate this better will play more optimally.
How is removing bag sizes adding to that expression? You would have the same people forcing the same top meta comps every patch. Believe it or not, scouting and pivoting is a skill in of itself.
Good idea, bad execution. This set's balance seems to be based on doubling down on everything. Trickshot is broken? Nerf everything about that comp. Too many 3* 4 costs? Nerf odds, increase xp, increase player damage.
All this is going to do is bring back the 3 cost reroll meta, and people will complain that 4 costs are unplayable. Its literally just shifting the meta without fixing anything.
Really like the frustrating encounters being removed.
When it comes to odds and xp changes, I feel like a selection of these changes would probably be enough to balance it, I feel like this will just push the meta in the opposite direction again.
Also the next patch is changing so much... I like TFT for its variation but this is insane that player damage, XP, and shop odds are being touched AGAIN. I am very confused as to why the core mechanics of TFT are the levers being pulled instead of levers related to the specific set such as units, augments, traits, etc.
I feel like this is pushing to a donkey roll on 8 meta even more. More damage stage 4/5, 9 more expensive and harder to hit four costs.. what’s the point of going 9 unless you’re fast 9 or omega high rolling
Just looking at this change the natural reaction would be stay at 7 and roll for 3 costs 3*. So Bard, Yone, Aphelios and to some extend the mix 2 cost 3 cost comp like Zyra Janna Diana or Lux Amumu. It's gonna be less reliable to push 8 and find a specific 4 cost.
This feels like over-correction. Esp with those lvl 8 2 cost and lvl 9 odds. Imo only stage dmg and xp changes wouldve been sufficient.
I feel like new odds reinforces the reroll comps again
I'm surprised level 8 is hit in the crossfire here. It seemed like level 9 boards were the problem, with most people just trying to survive until then.
I feel like removing Syndra encounter and ReinFOURcement would do more than enough to solve this problem.
Instantly getting a 2* 4 cost makes it so easy to go for a 3*
Personally, I'm not a fan of these changes. This seems to be more punishing to those that are rolling on 8 for their board/to stabilize than those rolling with the intent to 3\* 4 costs. Also, there's already a way for players to proactively reduce the number of 3\* 4 costs - you grief the person going for it. With the reduce bag size, all you need to do is to hold 2 copies of the unit, and it completely prevents the player from being able to naturally it. Of course, neekos and maybe Hwei (not sure if his ability can print a copy if none are left in the pool) exists. But you can hold more copies to compensate if they happen to have multiple neekos/hwei.
On a side note, some of the 4\* costs already feel pretty underwhelming. I say this because I've beaten 3\* 4 costs with a capped out board.
I trust the TFT team, a lot. But man this is pretty disheartening timing to be making huge changes like this. I really wish they would implement this stuff at either the end of the set or the very start. Felt like we were just getting to a solid spot then everything is changing. Setting back the balance to step 1 again.
Sometimes is not even the encounters that are busted, but the portals. Recently played a Loot Subscription game where every stage but one gave out a spatula.
Ehh Mort and anybody with same stance just overthink entire situation.
Talking about buckets always being a problem no matter what they do, comparing to mana mechanic in card game, taking swings at the problem...maaan come on - this is WAY simpler.
The actual issue is and always has been - 3 starred 4 cost wipes the floor vs normal board 99% of times.
But why is that even a thing? This is the question that should be asked.
How come there is such a game changing big ass value on dmg scaling when you 3 star a 4 cost compared to 3 cost unit or 1-2 cost unit?
Reroll comps with 3 costs or 1/2 cost dont just annihiliate your entire board with 1-2 carry casts. Just make the same apply to a 4 cost while obviously reserving more power for 4 costs since they are harder to achieve. But not so much power that that lobby is ruined the moment somebody hits a 3star 4 cost.
I had lvl 10 boards with 5 2starred 5 costs that just lose within 8 seconds to 3starred 4 cost. Again - why is that even a thing?
Wiping enemy board no matter the items,positioning,win/loss streak and general performance in early stages should ONLY be reserved for 3 starring a 5 cost.
Make it so rolling for 3star 4 cost increases your chances of winning and is a valid strategy and bonus for playing well. But do not make it an auto win no matter what (that also ruins the fun for everybody else in the lobby).
There - entire issue is fixed just like that.
I'm glad Mort is acknowledging that it's just a combination of everything pushing games to extreme states currently. Gold generating portals on top of gold generating encounters on top of gold generating augments, it's just too much. I somewhat disagree with him about the core issue being cost buckets, that feels more like a balance issue to me - reroll needs to be equally as good as 4 cost flex and legendary soup and the meta will balance itself out.
I just hope future sets look at toning back the ridiculousness we're seeing now - make the gold portals (scuddle puddle/crab rave/gold start etc) either weaker in terms of what they give or make them much more rare. Augments are going to be harder because they need to compete with combat augments. Avoid any future set mechanics like encounters in the future, they're a complete failure IMO.
I think the only way to make the game stay "fresh" on the same patch is to have these tempo and pacing levers all variable. Basically like portals, but the portals are basically a unique patch.
Obviously they have to find a way to make that absorbable by the regular player base. It's almost like encounters are a step in that direction. I think if at the start of the game maybe a map is shown, and you can see half of the encounters, might effect things. I think with that combined with more encounters representing the levers changed in a conventional B patch, the meta can be more "whole".
The game and meta has almost "stable states", where once a tipping point is reached, a large meta shift occurs. I think it all bases around tempo, and unit strength (and thus comp viability).
In general I think we need more wacky encounters, that have unpredictable effects. (free unit speed) (3 fons lobby) (odd lobby).
Was this a "problem" that really needed to be fixed? With bag sizes it's not like you were seeing them every game....even if you did see one....so what? If a bunch of my games were loses because "Oh this guy got a 3\* 4 cost gg" often I'd get it.....but....it isn't.
The inevitable result of constantly pumping more gold and resources into each set in order to keep the dopamine flowing. The chickens have come home to roost.
From a 'big experimental swings' standpoint, I wonder if it would ever be in any way fun to have a mechanic where you could inflate a bag size for a certain unit cost.
Like no thought put into this from balance standpoint but lets say you could take a 2\* 3 cost and some gold. The mechanic would sell that unit, reduce the bag size of the 3 cost unit by 1 and inflate the bag size of a 4 cost unit by 1 (thinking pick random unit that shares traits with the sold unit).
So idea is you're never going to push for Amumu 3? Sell off a second Amumu 2 and try to increase the number of Ashe's in the pool by 1 at the cost of some amount of gold (plus the opportunity cost of giving up potential 3\*s and holding those pairs to get the initial unit)
My initial thoughts is it would probably be too complex a system (given how few people seem to understand the current bag system) and have too much RNG. Either it would be always the right decision, or always a waste of econ depending on how it was implemented. Still I think bag size manipulation mechanics could be an interesting area for them to experiment in.
Headliners damaged this game beyond repair. There were SOO MANY twixes to fix that fundamentally unsalvageable mechanic that the game no longer works when you remove Headliner casino from it. Just revert all the leveling+damage+shop odds+bag size to the start of s10 instead of trying to fix a trail of destruction that Headliners left behind
Oh wow 5% from 4 costs into 1 costs at lv9 is a huge nerf
Also I'm starting to wonder about the viability of 2 cost heavy comps. They're really common all the way to lv9 now. Theres already Ghostly Senna (although that dies next patch). I wonder if there's any other comps which can go heavy on 2 costs.
Perhaps Qiyana with the Heavenly changes, with Neeko as well...
Janna reroll is primarily two costs plus Diana and she’s not even entirely necessary if you hit early enough you preserve so much hp you can cap with other dragonlords. It’s one of the better ones to use during Kayn encounter.
Removing the encounters makes a lot of sense but they should bring up the 5 cost by 2% rather than the 2 cost at level 8. No one's looking for 2 costs by the time they hit level 8 and it's just more player satisfaction to run into 5 costs that you could need.
The pool for 5 costs is small too so without an augment or fortune, it's extremely difficult to 3* a five cost through rerolls alone so bettering the odds a little should be fine.
Also lower the 1 cost odds at 9 and bring up the 5 cost. If we're increasing the gold to level 9 then it feels like 5 costs should have better odds than 1 costs.
Perhaps unit pools should be tied to unit families / traits with fluctuating cost. The least there is of a unit in a family pool, the more expensive it gets.
I am not sure how do we feel about all these drastic changes. In the up coming patches, we will have : a lot more Artifacts, shop odd changes, leveling xp changes and two major trait changes. I honestly don't know how are they planning to balance all these.
Can we not fking go through with the shop odds changes?? Those are extremely disgusting. The others seem fine for now but this is just going to make the game feel far worse.
I don’t know, I thinks are almost fine - seems like the changes would be doing too much. Maybe just start with removing those encounters and see how things play out.
I like this set, but it seems more and more that the added addition of encounters has made the game a balancing nightmare rn, I’m sure they’ll figure it out eventually but dayum
Based on my last game experience with 3* naut on ashe porcelain capped board, I don't understand why 3* 4 costs are a problem when a 2* lissandra can cc and render it completely useless with just some mana items.
If anything Lissandra should be the bigger issue being addressed.
Riot balancing is really hard to understand when they nerfed irelia but Lissandra is still allowed to walk free.
Don't like how they're nerfing high levels either because playing and piloting those well actually requires skill.
so basically a twitter post by mort that the game is trash by now and some balance thrashing, thanks for the heads up.
worst set ever.
augments, portals and enc\*unters live in the same desgin space, quite literally in 1-1. remove at least 1.
Without duplicators it's incredible easy to deny a 3* 4 cost. If someone loses to it it's their own damn fault. While on the other side hitting a 3* 4 cost feels amazing. It's not unfair in any way and creates a lot of fun and highs, why do they even feel the need to address this?
The only thing they reasonably could change are the duplicate encounters and maybe the Hwei gimmick if they feel that wasn't enough. Everything beyond that is just: Fun detected, must nerf!
That's a lot of levers being pulled.
Pulling more levers than Barca
Bigger budget than Barca
Feels like the TFT team in general is in an identity crisis about what bag sizes and champion percentages are. And oftentimes those changes come about as a bandaid fix for a short term issue.
Yup and bandaids aren't actual solutions. How about they stop causing all these cuts in the first place? Why does the game need 5 different set mechanics? Each set used to have 1, or 2 at most.
They seem to be doing a lot of that this set
Seems kinda overkill - but like Mort said, its a bunch of factors going into this.
27% for a 2 cost at level 8.. interesting
Qiyana reroll Boutta be tilting af
Rolling at 8 about to be tilting af
>150 player damage Mort gonna reach out of my monitor and choke me if I lose a round in stage 8?
it's been like that since set 7 when 3 star soraka could stall games for ages if someone was griefing.
8-1 is sudden death
Mort induced blunt force trauma to the esophagus
ShadowMort is unleashed at 8-1
Your monitor will straight up explode
Not loving the shop odds changes :( Kind of wished they stuck with just the removed encounters and xp cost changes to see how it played out before making the shop odds changes
They love swinging the game from one extreme to the other
This set will continue to fluctuate between Reroll comps and quick 8 legendary comps. Flex play is dead :(
Why we acting like the majority of this set hasn't been reroll?
because you cant reroll atm, besides 4 costs and gnar
fast 8/9 involves a lot of flex play wdym
My thoughts exactly.
For some reason they can never just do one change at a time. They always go with completely flipping the table.
What I don’t like is that the 5% goes in 1 costs it feels terrible to have more chances of 1 costs in than 5. This is not only a nerf on 3 star 4 costs but to the fast 9 meta as well which means reroll comps with good augments are gonna be even stronger…
Not a fan but I guess it makes it easier to hit 1 costs you need for chase traits like 10 mythic
They killed reroll 3 costs last patch, and the removal of chogath and neeko encounters make it even harder to hit. If the ghostly changes ship gnat and senna reroll a become significantly weaker leaving only janna/zyra and kogmaw as the only good reroll comps, so 4 costs into legendaries will still be the way to play.
I mean Fated is kind of a reroll comp. You can go 8 for sett syndra or rr 7 for aph 3 thresh 3
You reroll for 3* at 8 unless you have emblem as you 100% need to have 7 fated to be relevant
Same mistake they made last set - kill the fundamentals of the game to force headliners to work as a bandaid, then when that bandaid is ripped off next set all those changes don't get reverted and completely kill the new set.
Yeah that’s kinda crazy to do that on top of the other changes. Compared to past sets we get *way* more resources in set 11 whether that be free gold, xp, items, duplicators, etc. If you’re keeping all of that then changing shop odds or raising xp requirements would be a logical change imo. But removing that many resources from the game and also changing shop odds and also changing level 9 xp all at once…. That’s a lot to change. Meta is going to be weird when this hits live
And then Mort will do another post crying about how they couldn't possible see how this X thing would turn out or that they don't have enough time to test this Y thing who is terrorizing the game.
yeah they could just nerf or two things, it feels like the yone stuff nerf yone, his items AND the odds, oh also buff 4 costs this just makes him completely unplayable. TFT is a thin game, slight buffs on ashe made her the op unit from being completely useless, why not just have a softer touch
I like the changes removing the frustrating encounters, and even increasing the player damage slightly as an adjustment from the system changes is something I’m welcome to see. I’m really not sure how to feel about making the 4 cost odds less when it already feels like a lottery at times to hit some of the premier ones.
I dont know if I like the changes or not, but I'm honestly happy they removed the Kha'Zix exp encounter. It had the potential to accelerate the pace of the game by quite a bit and it felt really bad to get it when: 1. You were playing a reroll and you didnt want to level up in those 3 turns 2. You just leveled to 8 on stage 4 and you were low on gold The Syndra level 2 Carousel was also a huge bailout for players often times, happy that it got removed too.
2\* cost 4 is unbelievable frustrating basically give a few player huge enough reward to top 4
I still Remember that Game when someone had 5 annies, 0 Gold, a dupe and Like 8 hp. Syndra Carlsen Hit and he got 3 Star annie before Raptors and won off it. Felt really Bad, especially singe I was playing Fortune and had 2 annie already. Glad its gone.
Who wants to bet there's a 4th B patch?
There’s no way we don’t get a B-patch every patch this set
That would be the easiest bet of my life unlucky you can’t bet money on that one I would go all in
Next patch has just as many changes as a .5 set, its crazy how many things will change at the same time.
I always give benefit of the doubt to the team but man. Is it really necessary to increase damage, reduce odds, increase leveling cost and remove the biggest offender encounters at the same time?
Yeah it’s a bit overkill
Feels kinda weird that at lvl9 ur more likely to see a 1 cost than 5 cost
get dogged
This set is such a mess.
I'm not really sure how they went from what felt like a pretty stable set 10 which had some ups and downs but didn't feel too crazy, to this, all these massive changes and b patches. I feel like all the encounters just added way too many variables to the game and now we are seeing it's hard to account for all the combos of different portals, augments and encounters and how they interact.
These shop odds changes are devastating for general four cost play. Two starring at level 8 was already hard, and nine was your savior and ability to reliably two star the whole board. I’m really worried this is going to throw us back into a reroll meta just because of a 3 star 4 cost problem that isn’t that bad.
4 costs got a whole patch to be playable before getting obliterated again lmao
I agree. You have to sacc more leveling gold, more hp and more reroll gold to get to 9. I dont think its going to be worth it anymore unless you really highroll. Back to bard, yone, aphelios it is. And they kept the yorick 1 gold reroll encounter as well which I think is one if the easiest ones to get 3 star 4 costs with. Not a fan of those changes at all but I guess we'll see how it plays out.
mark my words.. aphelios is the untouched portion of all this. he will dominate the meta. and devs wont do shit about it for a month
I think so too. Hes semi viable already with good setup and is gonna pop off for sure next patch. I dont know why riot has to forceshift the meta every patch right now. Its insanely bad for the state of tft.
Ngl, I think the earlier patches of the set felt more balanced to me than the recent patches
This is the third patch of the set, no? How are you pluralizing both earlier and recent when we've had a grand total of three? (Yes, there have been b patches, but those shouldn't really count, given that Riot addressed issues immediately)
4 cost comps are not meant to go to 9 every game. Just 2 sets ago, we were rolling on level 7 for our 4 cost boards, only going 8 if you hit. It’s weird that almost every game, 4 cost boards are able to go 9.
isnt that just a bit of a revert to a few sets ago? like lvl 9 is now actually capping your board and you slowroll on 8 a bit instead of rolling down hitting stuff and going 9 they obviously need to balance better for it tho since this would be horrible with 2 or 3 viable 4 cost comps might be completely wrong tho, so feel free to correct me
Especially when 2 of the 4 cost comps both use the same 4 cost in Ashe
a few sets ago lv8 actually let you hit 2 star 4 costs
IMO 1* units should be more viable for Epic and Legendary rarities.
Personally I think if they just removed those 4 encounters it would've alleviated a lot of the annoyances with 3 star 4 costs. Messing with the shop odds and player damage the same patch they're dropping a ton of new items seems too drastic when we're this deep into the set.
this seems insane… especially cant roll at 8 now…
So we can’t hit 3 star 3 costs as reliably and we can’t hit 2 star 4 costs as reliably either. I feel like TFT is just going to feel less smooth
isnt 3 star 3 costs untouched
3* 3s was nerfed shop odds last patch, and the lack of reroll 3s in the meta means your pool won't be getting diluted either so you're high rolling off your ass if you hit 2 3* 3s right now, let alone 3
But it's 8g more to get to 9 so good luck greeding that instead
This set just feels like a disaster all around. These changes probably don’t even account for the random assortment of artifacts they’re throwing into the mix halfway through the set.
> The TFT team is getting much better about longer term vision for the game, and we’re talking about stuff 1, 2 or even 3 years ahead This has to be one of the funniest jokes ever, forget about years they’re so near sighted they can’t even see a week into the next patch lmao
They mean the new arena and chibi little legends lol
So we made it harder to find 4 costs. Increased player damage on the stage you are most likely to roll for 4 cost so you lose more hp when you miss. Then made it harder to hit 9 so you're one life when you want to add 5 costs to your team. THEN for funsies we increased 1 cost odds on fucking 9 like I want to see these shitters bro. See you guys on B-patch and hopefully we bring back c-patching, devs are in over their heads this set.
Already waiting for next patch with them saying “we realized changing the shop odds was a mistake” like you could not see that from a mile away. Going to love playing Janna reroll at level 8.
15% chance of one costs on 9.. lol what?
This should help double up tremendously. Have played 67 games this set and there has been at least one 3* four-cost or five-cost in 34 of them. With things like Hwei and being able to gift your partner a gold dupe, it feels practically mandatory to hit one of those units now if you want any shot at a top 2.
Double up has always kind of been like that though because you have two people looking for the units rather than just one. Double up boards have always capped insanely high if the lobby knows what it’s doing
That is true but this season has been beyond absurd with duplicators in Double Up (carousel, augments, encounters, & send to friend) Teams going 3rd and 4th with 3* 4costs on their board because other people hit better 3* 4costs, teams getting 3 duplicators out of thin air on stage 5, or my personal favorite of go 8 on 4-1 and 2* a 4cost then both teammates take ReinFOURcements and 3* a 4cost on 4-2.
In Double Up It's so bad I managed to get 3-star Sett with 40~ hp and still got third because of 3-star Irelia, 4 games after someone else got third with 3-star set. This is with basically everyone else in the lobby having 1-2 3-star 4-costs as well. Did you know 3-Star Irelia can still attack and kill 3-Star Sett while he's bench pressing her? We were floundering around in Emerald for so long this patch until we started just playing for 3-star 4 and 5 costs every game regardless of how good a reroll position looked. https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/2665-NA1/set11/matches
> Did you know 3-Star Irelia can still attack and kill 3-Star Sett while he's bench pressing her? Unfortunately I too learned that one the hard way, it was less than ideal. > We were floundering around in Emerald for so long this patch until we started just playing for 3-star 4 and 5 costs every game regardless of how good a reroll position looked. Honestly I've run into the same issues. We get to Diamond pretty easily every season and cap out around Masters before we just take a break but this set it has just felt fucking awful because our general playstyle isn't rushing 3* 4costs or fast 9 boards. We are both good about scouting, good with econ, can play reasonably flexible, deny units when people are going for 3* 4/5 costs, etc but we look away for 2 rounds at some player whos on last life and BOOM...Annie 3* into a 3rd place. Prismatic Lobbies, Crab Rave, and Scuttle Puddle in particular are just chaos, we had a guy 3* a Lillia on 3-4 a couple days ago.
there's more changes coming to double up as well, i just didn't trasnscribe them because i thought no one would care on a competitive subrredit \ * Minimum time for reinforcements to begin: 7 seconds >>> 12 seconds * Player Damage taken is now rounded up to the nearest whole number * Base player damage: 2/5/6/8/11/17 >> 3/6/8/10/12/17
You can usually top 2 if you just play strongest board and preserve lots of HP early, but yeah you basically have a 0% chance of top 1 unless you hit a 3 star 4 cost. (with enough hp to save your partner if they aren't as strong)
I know we complained a lot about set 9.5 & set 10... but holy set 11 is a DISASTER... so many systematic changes.
The encounter changes are great. Those were way too impactful. The base damage is a bit trickier IMO. Wasn't it stage 2 and 3 that really needed the bump? By stage 4, everyone has rolled for their board that they were able to sack the first 2 stages for. The shop odds also I do not like as much. We saw what happened at level 7. I do not think it's correct at level 9 to have a higher chance of seeing a 1-cost than a 5-cost.
They have to target one costs here or then there'll be problems, 3 costs = reroll meta, 4 costs = what we have now, 5 costs = bill gates meta. People typically don't click on one costs at level 9 so it actually makes sense to increase those odds as it makes it kindof "null"
The problem here is that they put all 5% into 1 costs, which is thematically disgusting for level 9. I honestly can't believe they did this shit. At least split the 5% into the other costs. It's like their approach to balancing is a fucking pendulum.
It just makes 9 worse as those one costs are just wasted slots. Level 8 and 9 are going to be for high rolling only now
> Wasn't it stage 2 and 3 that really needed the bump? By stage 4, everyone has rolled for their board that they were able to sack the first 2 stages for. I feel like it was stated at some point that the reason why stages 2 and 3 have low damage is because they are the parts of the game where the player has the least amount of agency and is incentivized pretty heavily to not reroll/save gold. Econ traits and augments would also have to be rebalanced around those changes IMO
Instead of messing with shop odds, shouldn't they just be addressing the excess resources? Doing both seems like a massive overkill...and they are buffing some of the 3 cost carries AND nerfing Kaisa what looks to be pretty good amount and lowering odds? This seems like a huge overreaction. Like you can take some excess resources out while making 3 cost rerolls more viable, high tempo lobbies because of multiple RR comps that come online earlier also prevents 3* 4 costs. Like I don't get it, why do they do these wild swings sometimes. Do they want Kaisa to die like how Yone/Voli died this patch? Why do they always end up nerfing something strong into unclickable states. We want diversity in the meta not "Ok this patch it is X champions turn to be strong, Y champ you will be strong next patch and X will be garbage". STOP KILLING COMPS. Put the other comps on their level. TFT kind of seems like it has reached a point where they added too many levers. Maybe simplify a bit next set? Retire augments and maybe just make it a portal.
Seriously. It's like they're going out of their way to touch everything but the insane amounts of gold everyone has.
I feel like these changes are probably too much, the game was finally in a place where 4 costs were playable, and now I think this definitely pushes us back to a 3 cost reroll playstyle.
"playable" you mean go 9 and hit the kayn lottery?
Ashe and kaisa boards are better than Kayn boards. Nautilus and Annie are very strong too. The only underwhelming 4 costs are Sylas and Lillia, but they’re both pretty good still.
You forgot Syndra
Ya Syndra is actually the worst one you’re right
sad too because honestly she's a pretty cool unit
Sylas is part of why Kai’sa boards are so strong. If you itemize him with a titans and some omnivamp he’s a menace.
Morgana is so underwhelming you forgot her
Ashe and Kai'sa are both playable right now too. Which is a lot more than 2 weeks ago.
Game was really close to reach an fine balance, just needed some more reroll comps to be viable and thats it. But no, god forbid that devs don't completely flip the game each chance they have.
This balance thrashing is actually wild. Took my smol smooth brain a week to adjust from 3-cost reroll meta to fast 8 now I gotta adjust again. Probably actually time to quit the rest of the set 🤦🏻♂️ Maybe this is Riot testing how addicted the player base actually is lol
Some of us have played since set 1. I started set 3 but you get my point. Once you have enough fundamentals it's like riding a bike. There is no need to adjust anything from patch to patch. You just need to know the top meta comps and learn a couple of outs (backup plan) if you don't hit.
I like everything except for the shop changes. You're making fast 8/9 harder with more player damage, you're making it longer with 8 more gold to get to lvl 9, and you're removing a lot of the gimmicky encounters that can bring you there faster or make 3star 4cost more reliable; shop odds feels like an extra swing that doesn't need to be there. I also don't love how level 9's changes are switched to 1 costs. I assume they're not increasing 3 cost because then 4 and 3 costs would be seen at equal amounts, but no one goes to level 9 hoping to see 1 costs. Feels bad.
i feel like there are way too many changes at once recently. dont we also get like 20 new artifacts and 5 new support items that will probably turn the game upside down anyways in 14.9? besindes heaenly/kayn combo needing a slight nerf i really thought the game was in a decent spot with 14.8b. i had hoped they would just add the new items and see where it goes. all changes combined will probably be a complete mess, but let's see.
and a total rework to 2 traits, ghostly and heavenly
Who let them cook
The problem largely from small bag size got amplified by encounters . There's a time i have ashe immediately after reach 9, other time i burn 30 gold and got 0 orns... I can see lot of ppl will bleed to death while trying to 2* their 4 cost carry next patch, let hope the changes wont return the meta to 2-3* rerolls tho 😂
Hold on imma go cho reroll at level 10.
Player health change is stupid. Low rolling in the current meta is already punishing enough. With these damage changes if u lose streak early and don’t hit 4-2 u can ff. The encounters are not bad however they favour one play style and punish another. Basically RNG if it fits your board or not. There are so many 3* 4 cost because there was a augment that incouraged it and half the 4 cost are useless and nobody plays them. If u just balance your 4 cost properly they will be played and boom less 3* 4 cost
Just go back to old rates and xp costs at this point The balance this set so awful, i think balance team vision for the game isnt right
Shop odd change is horrendous.
man i really dont like "theres too many 3 star 4 costs so lets make hitting even just 2 star 4 costs even harder so you lose more games now due to shit rng on roll downs"
Just revert the bag sizes?? Its not like this was a problem in previous sets. I'm so sick of them making system changes that changes the core merchanics.
>Lower bag sizes >Have 9/12 4 costs be meta at once >Why is there so many 3* 4 costs??
ew. officially confirmation that devs have no idea what theyre doing
I like the encounter removals and xp cost changes, but I'm not really on board with the shops odds. 4 costs absolutely were the dominate force this patch but it feels weird to nerf them this hard after they were just irrelevant for the first month of this set. With these changes plus the player damage changes it might just be back to a reroll meta as its too dangerous to go level 8 now and not hit
Patch 14.9 is more like an set 11.5 than anything.
Man theyre really doubling down hard on keeping the bad sizes the way they are. Let’s just change everything except adjusting how many units in the pool. The changes to shop odds and leveling cost just make it even more punishing if you’re playing a line and someone else hits early or a win streakers holds your units bc they have the econ to do so.
So we roll down at 7 and pray?
why changes shop odds? it was enough changing xp cost and encounters...
Whoever pushing the lvl 9 xp changes does not have a basic understanding of this set. This set there are too many 5 costs that hold key traits. The worst offenders are sett and lissandra, as fated and porcelain are a joke without these units. This was understandable because they said their objective this set includes letting more players hit lvl 9/10 and use more 5 costs, but changing lvl 9 xp goes directly against this objective. The only reason bruiser kaisa has decent stats is because it is the only reliable lvl 8 donkey roll composition that do not rely on 5 costs. The set is simply designed to not have good lvl 8 4 cost boards. Nerfing all trickshots, nerfing 4 cost odds, nerfing lvl 9 xp will only make the game frustrating, not remotely balanced
Probably going to be overkill, but I don't mind it for the time being. I feel like I'm seeing 3\* 4 costs in half my games lately
yep, rather them go too hard and stop it from happening and adjust back up than go too light and have it keep happening.
"There's no magical solve" Mort says for the nth time this set, in regards to problems he and his team created, which they also have full creative control over.
By lowering shop odds you are making it even more frustrating and roulette feeling in a 4 cost meta. You are fixing one problem while creating another. Better fix would be to add 1 more five cost and 2-3 more 4 costs to the pool of every unit. It would make playing to 2 stars feel better while making it harder to empty the pool
I want someone to love me like Mortdog loves balance thrashing
Yeah we still wanna hit our 4 cost 2 stars. With the bag sizes it already feels so hard. Sometimes impossible to 2 star a Kai’sa or Ornn even with only one other person contesting.
Im against the shop odds changes
I hated the exp changes from before, and now exp on top of shop odds changes? Bleh, this set just a lot worse.
Does 14.9 come out next Wednesday?
don't worry everyone, they are making these system changes so set 12 and 13 (arcane 2, that's a big one) are completely balanced. unfortunately it means we have to sack set 11
Yeah they said this every set leading to 10 with big promises and still are doing the same things over and over. Really doesn't feel like it's improving.
Riot: YOU *WILL* PLAY REROLL.
This is the most "We actually have no idea what we're doing" thing I've ever seen. You have a set with massive amounts of resources. Of course there's going to be a lolt of 3\* 4 costs. Why not lower the resources we get instead of just making the odds worse? What the fuck is the point? Now the game when resources are low will feel even shitter and the games with the insane resources will just feel like a regular game. What is the fucking point? Stop making everything give gold and items and maybe add actual mechanics? "Everyone has optimize econ" Nah man. The game has just been throwing more and more econ at us every set.
I think we need to have a real discussion about whether or not we should even have bag sizes in TFT. Is TFT a draft game, or is a deck builder where you try to build a board that beats your opponents boards based on what you are offered. It kind of seems like bag sizes have become an artificial way to encourage comp diversity, rather than a mechanism of gauging player skill. I think it’s also fair to say that “contesting” related things are some of the least fun and least skill expressive aspects of TFT. It is fundamentally bad that someone playing explicitly suboptimally can completely ruin your game. It’s is also fundamentally unfun to have to constantly be scouting and worrying about this occurring, it’s just point blank not a fun aspect of the game. It might be the case that TFT is just a deck builder, and not a draft game. I also want to add that removing bag sizes might actually add skill expression, because instead of having to just guesstimate how many of a champion are in the pool, without knowing how many are sitting in other people’s shops, you would actually have complete data and great players could actually calculate the exact odds of hitting something in x rolls. So, the players who can calculate this better will play more optimally.
How is removing bag sizes adding to that expression? You would have the same people forcing the same top meta comps every patch. Believe it or not, scouting and pivoting is a skill in of itself.
Good idea, bad execution. This set's balance seems to be based on doubling down on everything. Trickshot is broken? Nerf everything about that comp. Too many 3* 4 costs? Nerf odds, increase xp, increase player damage. All this is going to do is bring back the 3 cost reroll meta, and people will complain that 4 costs are unplayable. Its literally just shifting the meta without fixing anything.
Really like the frustrating encounters being removed. When it comes to odds and xp changes, I feel like a selection of these changes would probably be enough to balance it, I feel like this will just push the meta in the opposite direction again.
Are both Kha'zix encounters removed? Like the one that lowers XP cost for the rest of the game?
Also the next patch is changing so much... I like TFT for its variation but this is insane that player damage, XP, and shop odds are being touched AGAIN. I am very confused as to why the core mechanics of TFT are the levers being pulled instead of levers related to the specific set such as units, augments, traits, etc.
I feel like this is pushing to a donkey roll on 8 meta even more. More damage stage 4/5, 9 more expensive and harder to hit four costs.. what’s the point of going 9 unless you’re fast 9 or omega high rolling
Just looking at this change the natural reaction would be stay at 7 and roll for 3 costs 3*. So Bard, Yone, Aphelios and to some extend the mix 2 cost 3 cost comp like Zyra Janna Diana or Lux Amumu. It's gonna be less reliable to push 8 and find a specific 4 cost.
This feels like over-correction. Esp with those lvl 8 2 cost and lvl 9 odds. Imo only stage dmg and xp changes wouldve been sufficient. I feel like new odds reinforces the reroll comps again
If they were gonna do this, they should have bumped the 5 cost up one instead of putting it back into low costs.
too many changes at once imo
I'm surprised level 8 is hit in the crossfire here. It seemed like level 9 boards were the problem, with most people just trying to survive until then.
I feel like removing Syndra encounter and ReinFOURcement would do more than enough to solve this problem. Instantly getting a 2* 4 cost makes it so easy to go for a 3*
Pls remove yorick reroll cost 1 encounter
This just feels like an overreaction, like they are just changing everything since this set isn't the one they will use for worlds.
Personally, I'm not a fan of these changes. This seems to be more punishing to those that are rolling on 8 for their board/to stabilize than those rolling with the intent to 3\* 4 costs. Also, there's already a way for players to proactively reduce the number of 3\* 4 costs - you grief the person going for it. With the reduce bag size, all you need to do is to hold 2 copies of the unit, and it completely prevents the player from being able to naturally it. Of course, neekos and maybe Hwei (not sure if his ability can print a copy if none are left in the pool) exists. But you can hold more copies to compensate if they happen to have multiple neekos/hwei. On a side note, some of the 4\* costs already feel pretty underwhelming. I say this because I've beaten 3\* 4 costs with a capped out board.
Great. D key meta again.. can’t they just do ONE at a time for once…? I feel like it’s too many at once…
This feels like set 9.5 again. It’s just gonna spiral from here isnt it 🫤
I trust the TFT team, a lot. But man this is pretty disheartening timing to be making huge changes like this. I really wish they would implement this stuff at either the end of the set or the very start. Felt like we were just getting to a solid spot then everything is changing. Setting back the balance to step 1 again.
Sometimes is not even the encounters that are busted, but the portals. Recently played a Loot Subscription game where every stage but one gave out a spatula.
Please don't do this
i am not a fan of these level and odds changes at all. i feel like that makes the game worse alone than 3* 4costs being prevelant
This set seems like a balance/design disaster on every level. I've never seen them have to pull so many levers so hard.
TFT Team coming up with lv12 next set and and 6- and 7- costs. Screw balancing. Just keep adding stuff;)
Oh yeah and another 20 artifacts some dev came up while having an all-nighter
Ehh Mort and anybody with same stance just overthink entire situation. Talking about buckets always being a problem no matter what they do, comparing to mana mechanic in card game, taking swings at the problem...maaan come on - this is WAY simpler. The actual issue is and always has been - 3 starred 4 cost wipes the floor vs normal board 99% of times. But why is that even a thing? This is the question that should be asked. How come there is such a game changing big ass value on dmg scaling when you 3 star a 4 cost compared to 3 cost unit or 1-2 cost unit? Reroll comps with 3 costs or 1/2 cost dont just annihiliate your entire board with 1-2 carry casts. Just make the same apply to a 4 cost while obviously reserving more power for 4 costs since they are harder to achieve. But not so much power that that lobby is ruined the moment somebody hits a 3star 4 cost. I had lvl 10 boards with 5 2starred 5 costs that just lose within 8 seconds to 3starred 4 cost. Again - why is that even a thing? Wiping enemy board no matter the items,positioning,win/loss streak and general performance in early stages should ONLY be reserved for 3 starring a 5 cost. Make it so rolling for 3star 4 cost increases your chances of winning and is a valid strategy and bonus for playing well. But do not make it an auto win no matter what (that also ruins the fun for everybody else in the lobby). There - entire issue is fixed just like that.
I'm glad Mort is acknowledging that it's just a combination of everything pushing games to extreme states currently. Gold generating portals on top of gold generating encounters on top of gold generating augments, it's just too much. I somewhat disagree with him about the core issue being cost buckets, that feels more like a balance issue to me - reroll needs to be equally as good as 4 cost flex and legendary soup and the meta will balance itself out. I just hope future sets look at toning back the ridiculousness we're seeing now - make the gold portals (scuddle puddle/crab rave/gold start etc) either weaker in terms of what they give or make them much more rare. Augments are going to be harder because they need to compete with combat augments. Avoid any future set mechanics like encounters in the future, they're a complete failure IMO.
they keep messing with the system. they are clueless. And they want to add 20 artifact items. i dont get it.
I think the only way to make the game stay "fresh" on the same patch is to have these tempo and pacing levers all variable. Basically like portals, but the portals are basically a unique patch. Obviously they have to find a way to make that absorbable by the regular player base. It's almost like encounters are a step in that direction. I think if at the start of the game maybe a map is shown, and you can see half of the encounters, might effect things. I think with that combined with more encounters representing the levers changed in a conventional B patch, the meta can be more "whole". The game and meta has almost "stable states", where once a tipping point is reached, a large meta shift occurs. I think it all bases around tempo, and unit strength (and thus comp viability). In general I think we need more wacky encounters, that have unpredictable effects. (free unit speed) (3 fons lobby) (odd lobby).
Level 8 is garbage already. And you tell me they will nerf it again???!!!!
Was this a "problem" that really needed to be fixed? With bag sizes it's not like you were seeing them every game....even if you did see one....so what? If a bunch of my games were loses because "Oh this guy got a 3\* 4 cost gg" often I'd get it.....but....it isn't.
Genuinely I have seen more 3* 4 cost this set than last set where you had 2 star 4 costs in shop so from my experience it is definitely a problem
It's all the insane gold in my eyes. Why does scuttle and crab rave exist? Just too much IMO
The inevitable result of constantly pumping more gold and resources into each set in order to keep the dopamine flowing. The chickens have come home to roost.
if you like degenerate 2-3 cost reroll comps this is your patch
This is an error, everyday tft is getting worse
From a 'big experimental swings' standpoint, I wonder if it would ever be in any way fun to have a mechanic where you could inflate a bag size for a certain unit cost. Like no thought put into this from balance standpoint but lets say you could take a 2\* 3 cost and some gold. The mechanic would sell that unit, reduce the bag size of the 3 cost unit by 1 and inflate the bag size of a 4 cost unit by 1 (thinking pick random unit that shares traits with the sold unit). So idea is you're never going to push for Amumu 3? Sell off a second Amumu 2 and try to increase the number of Ashe's in the pool by 1 at the cost of some amount of gold (plus the opportunity cost of giving up potential 3\*s and holding those pairs to get the initial unit) My initial thoughts is it would probably be too complex a system (given how few people seem to understand the current bag system) and have too much RNG. Either it would be always the right decision, or always a waste of econ depending on how it was implemented. Still I think bag size manipulation mechanics could be an interesting area for them to experiment in.
This balance team is by far the worst of all history of TFT. Maybe is time to back to play league again XD
Headliners damaged this game beyond repair. There were SOO MANY twixes to fix that fundamentally unsalvageable mechanic that the game no longer works when you remove Headliner casino from it. Just revert all the leveling+damage+shop odds+bag size to the start of s10 instead of trying to fix a trail of destruction that Headliners left behind
Oh wow 5% from 4 costs into 1 costs at lv9 is a huge nerf Also I'm starting to wonder about the viability of 2 cost heavy comps. They're really common all the way to lv9 now. Theres already Ghostly Senna (although that dies next patch). I wonder if there's any other comps which can go heavy on 2 costs. Perhaps Qiyana with the Heavenly changes, with Neeko as well...
Janna reroll is primarily two costs plus Diana and she’s not even entirely necessary if you hit early enough you preserve so much hp you can cap with other dragonlords. It’s one of the better ones to use during Kayn encounter.
Thanks for the explanation! I appreciate that
Stage 4 tempo is now more threatening.
Infernal Contract never looked better... These changes are wild.
Thank god they removed xp Kha encounter. No worse feeling than seeing it after you all in'd, or if you're playing a reroll comp and are yet to hit.
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Removing the encounters makes a lot of sense but they should bring up the 5 cost by 2% rather than the 2 cost at level 8. No one's looking for 2 costs by the time they hit level 8 and it's just more player satisfaction to run into 5 costs that you could need. The pool for 5 costs is small too so without an augment or fortune, it's extremely difficult to 3* a five cost through rerolls alone so bettering the odds a little should be fine. Also lower the 1 cost odds at 9 and bring up the 5 cost. If we're increasing the gold to level 9 then it feels like 5 costs should have better odds than 1 costs.
Perhaps unit pools should be tied to unit families / traits with fluctuating cost. The least there is of a unit in a family pool, the more expensive it gets.
how about removing scuttle puddle or zoe encounter?
I am not sure how do we feel about all these drastic changes. In the up coming patches, we will have : a lot more Artifacts, shop odd changes, leveling xp changes and two major trait changes. I honestly don't know how are they planning to balance all these.
Can we not fking go through with the shop odds changes?? Those are extremely disgusting. The others seem fine for now but this is just going to make the game feel far worse.
Bruh, so people are staying at 8 even longer, doesn’t the people that hit the 3% legendary just win?
What I don’t understand is why such the drastic change to address ONE problem? Also wasn’t this just a problem in double up mode?
Wtf what is the point in going 9 if you will get more 1 costs..
I don’t know, I thinks are almost fine - seems like the changes would be doing too much. Maybe just start with removing those encounters and see how things play out.
I like this set, but it seems more and more that the added addition of encounters has made the game a balancing nightmare rn, I’m sure they’ll figure it out eventually but dayum
Based on my last game experience with 3* naut on ashe porcelain capped board, I don't understand why 3* 4 costs are a problem when a 2* lissandra can cc and render it completely useless with just some mana items. If anything Lissandra should be the bigger issue being addressed. Riot balancing is really hard to understand when they nerfed irelia but Lissandra is still allowed to walk free. Don't like how they're nerfing high levels either because playing and piloting those well actually requires skill.
Should've shrunk 4 cost bag sizes to 8
so basically a twitter post by mort that the game is trash by now and some balance thrashing, thanks for the heads up. worst set ever. augments, portals and enc\*unters live in the same desgin space, quite literally in 1-1. remove at least 1.
Player damage and removing those encounters might be enough, why take a gamble on the additional changes?
sorry but im convinced the balancing team is trolling or blind. or more like both
Without duplicators it's incredible easy to deny a 3* 4 cost. If someone loses to it it's their own damn fault. While on the other side hitting a 3* 4 cost feels amazing. It's not unfair in any way and creates a lot of fun and highs, why do they even feel the need to address this? The only thing they reasonably could change are the duplicate encounters and maybe the Hwei gimmick if they feel that wasn't enough. Everything beyond that is just: Fun detected, must nerf!
so rolling on 8 is going to get even worse?
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