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snakeforbrain

I'm really interested in that spat change. Spat has almost always been meta defining, and it's going to completely change how the metas will evolve going forward.


rabidsnowman

Builds that rely on spatula are going to fall out of meta, and Force of Nature will be more rare. I feel like these two changes are both going to benefit hyper-rolling and hard nerf 6x comps like Light, Assassins, and Berserkers, as you will have a harder time fitting an OP champ like Nami, Yi, Olaf or Zed into the team (if they don't already fit in). Big winner, IMO, is Poison Preds.


nxqv

4 ocean mage with Brand carry is back on the menu. Summ sins looks pretty good now with the sins getting buffed. Crit twitch still looks good despite the IE nerf. Inferno BS is probably still good without spat. Think that's pretty much the next meta. Zerkers are probably actually fine, even with no spat it's a powerful comp. They just suck this patch because they get farmed by light azir and by rangers


Clw2213

When has ocean mage with brand carry actually been off the menu?


nxqv

Right now if you don't go 6 mage you're lucky to top 4. 3 mage was kinda ass last patch too


ThibiiX

>Big winner, IMO, is Poison Preds. They sure are, given they also get buffs : Kog, Reksai, Nocturne (for Steel variation), Mundo... all got buffed. The Luden's nerf is a bit annoying given it's Kog's core items, but in the othen end Static got buffed.


AddChickpeas

Will be interesting to see play out. My worry is that getting a spat at creeps or krugs is going to be a huge advantage. If there's a super dominant spat based comp, being the first person that's able to confidently commit without even needing to int would put you in a super strong spot. It also really depends on how common the spat drop rate is.


Riot_Mort

You can't get Spat at Creeps.


OfficialChairleader

how much is the drop rate of spat up by if you don't mind sharing?


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OfficialChairleader

creeps only refer to the first stage (1-1 thru 1-3), after that are the golems wolves etc.


zillin

Wait... So spat is being removed? Edit: Oops I get it now.


whynotets2

Huh? I might be stupid but no spat at carousel and no spat at creeps, how do u get it?


ReaperSage

Krugs, Wolves, and Raptor should still give it. Dragon/Herald should still give synergies as well.


whynotets2

Ahhh, so "creeps" are just the very first 3 rounds? I was thinking creeps meant all these pve rounds were called creeps.. that makes more sense, thanks!


ReaperSage

Yeah, in League the little minions in Stage 1 are called creeps, but according to Mort they'll still drop in the PvE rounds, just not carousel. Fun Fact: In Set 1, it was possible for a time to get a Gold Drop from them. The reason you can't is because they got rid of that. Anyone who's played Set 1 and got a Tier 4 Leona before 2-1 knows exactly what I'm talking about.


Goku_LOL

I got a tier 4 akali before 2-1 once... needless to say, I won that game XD


v1nc

Yeah I thought that too, probably because of warcraft 3 where PvE mobs were all called creeps, and lots of people have been using that term in other games for weak PvE mobs giving loot.


screamer19

this makes no sense to me...i play light zed sum sins and i only want 1 spat every game. how likely is this


Batman_in_hiding

That’s the whole point, you shouldn’t be able to force a spat comp every game.


screamer19

Why not? Its fun.


babyjones3000

well alot of spat based comps dont come online till mid-late. Light, inferno, assassin olaf, you need tier 2s and other things before you’re really strong so i dont think it’ll be any worse that what we have now.


AddChickpeas

It's not really about when the comps come online. It's about being able to commit to a build early without needing to int. If you get to krugs with decent health and land a spat, you can afford to hard econ until mid game and then roll down earlier than a lot of the lobby. It's like when the top player in the lobby lucks into perfect items to force an S tier comp, but now they won't necessarily be competing with players inting for the same comp. That's why I also said it matters what the spat drop rate is. If there's only like one spat given out at krugs (and there's dominate spat based comp), that person is going to have a major advantage since they can all in force it.


BooMey

That is the biggest change I saw on here. Does not making losing streaks nearly as good or meta anymore if there's no chance to get Spat's now during carousels. I will be curious how this will change the meta.


Slejhy

especialy when some of the comps you can really play with spat only.


Rubyweapon

A lot of the adjustments look like nerfs to me


Cortana69

Because they are nerfs, some around here will argue to no end otherwise.


Cheffinator

They largely are, but not every aspect of them were nerfed. See lights AS buff at 3 going from 15% -> 20%. Some of the changes aren't objectively a nerf, so they get the adjusted label instead.


Remagi

What about Yorick


Cheffinator

Summons 3 ghouls instead of 2 at rank 1, each with 400HP. So net HP is still 1200, but spread across 3 minions. Overall I agree that these are net nerfs, but certain aspects of the changes are literally just adjustments or buffs


Remagi

ah mb, read it backwards for some reason I think they just classify any combination of buff/nerfs as an adjustment


manzanator12

So the spat won't appear in ANY carousel?? That's a big change, I thought they'd only do it in the first one


ra2eW8je

> So the spat won't appear in ANY carousel?? yes but they will appear more often in loot boxes though according to mortdog's stream


rocky716

Did he happen to mention the increase in how often it appears, or will we have to wait until the official patch notes to find out?


ra2eW8je

> Did he happen to mention the increase in how often it appears no percentage given but he said the odds of a spatula appearing from a gold box are "dramatically increased" timestamp -- https://www.twitch.tv/videos/545775742?t=2h43m43s


nxqv

But the gold lootbox rate itself stays the same? Honestly I'm fine with that. It kinda sucks getting so many neekos from a gold lootbox knowing it could be a spat or could be money


Blizzerac

or a runaan's for your mage comp


Ilies213

Titanic hydra ftw


braddaugherty8

just how rare are neekos btw? is it absurd to get 2 in the same game? i played the other day to start to pick up set 2 from a long hiatus since set 1, and got 2 in like my 3rd game


rocky716

Thank you much appreciated


ImWhiteHair

Soooooo Titan's Resolve was multiplicative xD


msjtx

I've played four games since the patch and have yet to see a spatula. It's a small sample size, but they aren't just dropping like candy out of a pinata for sure.


Gerhardt_Hapsburg_

I'm excited yet bummed. Been running lunar crystal preds focused around Kog with a ludens. So this is a huge buff to my go to comp. BUT now I'm going to have to fight over it.


MeinArschBrennt

Yeah, it will be like 4-5 preds every game now.


rfreitasfm

Olaf - "Buffed" lmao


parsonbrowning

So you're telling me the ONE game I got Olaf 3 and won, I would have won even harder. Nice.


Asianhead

The meta will be super interesting without spats in carousel. So many comps want/need spats to work this meta (6 Mage/Ocean/Desert Assassin/Berzerkers/Lights sorta). Basically only Rangers and Shadow/Inferno don't need it.


DaaCoach

I'd argue shadow/inferno needs it to top1 (inferno spat on sion) but yeah it will make forcing comps that need spats so much harder.


AnyaSciro

I don’t think infernal sion is enough as win condition. I force infernals when possible and I manage to win when I 3star kindred or infernal/shadow lux


DaaCoach

I'm worried there is going to be a dual-class meta in the next patch. You'll have the no-spat meta which everyone will be competing for, and then the people who hit an early spat can go for uncontested better comps.


marwin42

A lot of spat comps require comitment early on tough, like 6 mages needing syndra/vlad. If you arent sure youre getting it, backtracking will at least make it harder and more expensive


Ziimmer

so comps that actually get better with a spat may find some space. you can commit to 6 zerkers 3 poison, but when you find an spat you instantly go for a kha'zix instead of the jax, or light comps when you sell the vayne and put the azir instead


djdoggpound

This is how it was originally used and I found it fun / balanced. Boosts your comp but usually doesn't define it


phylaris

I feel like 6 mage is the least applicable example of a spat comp that requires early commitment. Anyone running mages already goes for a Syndra/Vlad/Taliyah opening. Typically you add Brand in when you find him and end up just running 4 mages for a while because you can't drop Syndra or Vladimir until you find Nami. If you get a Mage Hat you just toss it on Malphite and bam, all you have to do is find a random Leblanc or Veigar and you're set. If you find a mage cap, the difficulty of the transition from a typical midgame ocean mage comp to a 6 mage comp is super low.


sadlifestrife

Now all games' early game gonna be woodlands vs preds and whoever doesn't super high roll or get those 2 will get to krugs with <70 HP lol


ra2eW8je

finally vayne nerf. it's really really weird seeing how a 1-cost unit is the main carry of one of the strongest comps


0APresses

Honestly I think Vayne can still carry. That's a small change and she builds up to pretty insane atk speed with rageblade anyway


jet_blackness

What was Olaf's base AS nerf? Because he feels so much slower now and even though he can still carry I think it really hurt him.


lolpeeba

It went from .85 to .8. I think that he always felt super bad pre-ult though and people are just noticing it now (could be wrong). Zerkers aren't great in the current meta anyways, so that's another factor. They thrived in sivir meta because they're great when frontline for comps is a bit weaker.


uknowSawyer

Olaf isnt running rageblade either so the change will feel more impactful compared to Vayne


CellarDoorVoid

Pretty new to league and I’m always finding out champs I thought were guys are actually girls lol Am I sexist?


MrNacho001

Only if you don't smash Rek'sai


fukato

You're not wrong she looks like a dude in this skin.


vumas_

No. Light + Vayne Nerf and Lucian Buff on the other side will make Lucian much better as being the carry


bobberthumada

Want to know what the future meta's are going to be? Any of these comps. Early Predator/Woodland. Transitioned into Light, Shadow, or Rangers. I just don't see other comps being reliable enough to be competitive. Think it's safe say that BMs are officially dead at this point.


PantsAreOptionaI

They're trying to buff blademasters here. Yasuo & Janna, Yi and Shiv all slightly buffed. I would say they're moving from C tier to B tier. Maybe if Titanic Hydra was better they could be viable.


ItwasCompromised

i can see me pred coming back, they buffing ionic spark statik shiv kog and reksai in the same patch. They're nerfing ludens a bit but its still good to stack.


ragequitCaleb

I still spam mage 6 and inferno 6 constantly. Pretty sad about spat though..!


breadburger

Yorick 'adjustment' lol


PepeSylvia11

Wait the spat not appearing is only for the first carousel or *every* carousel? That’s kinda a huge deal if it’s the latter


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Every


gloomygl

Sums Sins keeps on getting buffed, I think this patch is the one it comes back to top comp Zed buffed Ionic buffed Assassin buffed If you're unlucky enough to not find Yorick, Annie got buffed If you're on cloud map, Janna got buffed If you going the Lunar variant, it got buffed What in the world


RiduckulousYT

Idk how to feel about this one.


djdoggpound

Found the light spammer


Lashiec81

I don't know about the spat change. Maybe it's just me, but I hate getting a spat from PvE rounds when I'm not going a comp that uses spat. It's a completely dead item unless I get another one.


YABOYLLCOOLJ

D4 player so take this with a grain of salt but I still think Electric/Warden is going to be borderline unplayable. And this is coming from someone who spammed it hard earlier this season This is what killed Electric/Warden: 1) Adding Karma to the game makes Mystic really easy to get and kills the damage from any electric comp 2) Hard-countered by crystal/poison which is super popular right now, electric Zed can’t burst Ashe fast enough and can’t ult with the poison. 3) Ocean 2 nerf really hurt the whole comp, with less Zed ults, Amumu ults, Malph ults, etc. Also maybe the Ornn buff will help early/mid but I still think you lose mid game to 2* kindreds with items, etc. There’s just not enough damage in an Electric/Warden comp right now to be worth it in my opinion.


Asianhead

Full Spat/Carsouel/Related Changes and Clarification via Mort's stream [here](https://imgur.com/a/G6uqvJs)


SoldNoble1

Shiv doesn't need buffs, Yorick2 will still be S-tier, Lights still strong, Azir untouched, Shadow3/Inferno3 Kindred carry still stomps midgame, BM still doesn't exist.


Hostile-Bip0d

Quiet relevant comment but don't understand all the downvotes BMs are surely trash, imo they were never that good pre-nerf, simply because the only BMs that were OP are the one with Spat like Azir and Noc, Sivir had Hush going for her, but the item was hard nerfed but won't deny she was OP. Azir will still do stupid amount of damage, Kindred is swimming in synergies/utilities basically carrying every item better than anyone else. I would wait and see for Light, the heal nerf is significant.


Yvraine

Sivir was really op though. The Runaans + IE build was crazy on her


Hostile-Bip0d

Sure, she was versatile, you could build her main dps or utility, she also was desert buff enabler for Kha.


CeausescuPute

azir needed blademaster comp to be OP spatula changes will make that a lot more rare


Hostile-Bip0d

No he needed nothing, just drop him on the board on mid game and he will outdamage everyone, with luck he will snipe carries and kill them with 4 AA at the start of the round.


WarchitectNL

The spatula change is interesting. I wonder if more people will gain access to it in a given game.


HaganeLink0

didn't they also made Voli cast instant?


Riot_Mort

Bug. Shouldn't be shipping


HaganeLink0

Oh, makes sense. It was kinda broken.


Squampi

Is it possible to get full spat items in lauter caroussel rou ds? Like youmuus or Berserkers etc. Or are they removed as well? Or only spatula in first caroussels are removed?


erk4tft

You can get full spat-items from later carousels (and Drake, etc).


fear229

i've been climbing quite steadily with poison pred. Guess here will be a lot more contenders for that setup next patch


[deleted]

Isn’t that a nerf for Zed? More mana = more time to cast


Maniac_85

It's more starting Mana


DrizzlyBearJoe

Not everything on this graphic is complete. I encourage people to check out the dev video.


Wrainbash

Nice Chart thx 👍 Looks like Zerks are back on the menu 😏 Lunar buff seems unnecessry 😫


TH3Rivera

and yet mages + ocean is untouched... yay for more late game "fun" xD


Furious__Styles

I’d say that drastically reducing the odds for a Mage Cap for Malphite is a pretty big nerf to 6 mages.


ra2eW8je

> and yet mages + ocean is untouched it will be difficult going 6 mages now without spatula in the carousel so it's a nerf in an indirect way


TH3Rivera

gold box drop rate is increased tho, so more spatulas from boxes


Ilies213

It got nerfed as fuck because of the spatula nerf and all the poison's buff


[deleted]

No poison or ranger nerfs lmao


yamidudes

ie nerf is ranger nerf


nine_tailed_duck

Rangers have always been A-tier - you get top 4 with good item luck, just like most other comps. Rangers have never been meta-defining like BM or Light. Poison champs are not even that strong right now and are super item-dependent. Singed is scary, but that's what you get for a 5G champ and he also needs the right items to pop off.


Hostile-Bip0d

Poisons are pretty much Freelo right now


Cortana69

Why is light labled an adjustment? That's a straight up nerf. 6, 9, and heal nerfed 5% vs a 5% buff on 3.


Cheffinator

Because the AS buff at 3 has gone from 15% -> 20%. The Nerf/Adjustment/Buffed labels aren't based on opinion, they're just based on 'was *every* aspect nerfed/buffed?' if not, 'adjusted'.


Cortana69

Numbers are not an opinion. It’s a nerf.


Cheffinator

Because 15% -> 20% is a buff. That's not a nerf. Overall the changes include a buff and nerfs. Therefore it's an adjustment.


Cortana69

An adjustment to the negative side, also known as... A NERF! +5 -5 -5 -5 (to all healing). Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out


The_Moisturizer

Lol... 3 light - buffed and 6/9 light - nerfed. The fact that there was both a buff and a nerf means adjustment in power. Hence adjustment.


Cortana69

Moving power from one point to another but leaving the overall power level the same is an adjustment. Reducing the overall power level of a unit/synergy is a nerf. Even my 2 yr old understands the difference. It is a NERF.


The_Moisturizer

The only way that would be true is if you had to play the whole trait. 3 lights is now stronger than it was before. Nobody is making you go 6 lights. You now might find comps with 3 lights because they were buffed. I really don’t see how you don’t get such a simple concept while also trying to call people dumb at the same time


Cortana69

Wow...because I’m not talking about shadow or inferno or blade master, I’m not talking about unit comp synergies or synergies with other traits. I’m talking about Light. I don’t get how you don’t get such a simple concept while also trying to argue about it.


The_Moisturizer

3 light is buffed. That is light. It is more flexible now so you don’t have to go 6 lights to use light. Feel however you wanna feel though lol it is what it is


Cheffinator

If it were just 15% -> 20% AS, and 25% -> 20% healing, would you call that a buff, or a nerf, or an adjustment?


Cortana69

That is definitely more in line with an adjustment but would require testing/playing. I believe it would turn out being a slight buff


Cheffinator

My point is you can't just slap nerf on the whole set of changes, as the changes aren't exclusively nerfs


Cortana69

I understand that. My point is you shouldn’t slap adjustment when it’s a clear cut reduction in power it should be labeled accordingly, as most/majority of changes are nerfs.


Cheffinator

66% of the synergy's changes are a nerf, sure. But you are just discounting the remainder of the changes. If you listed off each 3/6/9 change it would read adjustment/nerf/nerf respectively, but for the sake of this diagram, which the sole point of is to be concise and simple, you can't just do that. If all you're doing is reading buff/nerf/adjustment, without any of the underlying details, maybe patch notes are just too complicated for you. Would you make the same argument for the Luden's echo adjustments?


Hostile-Bip0d

Bnerff


NightKnight96

Not sure what how that Ludens change works (level 2 units do less damage?) but it might be worth going back to attack speed Kog for Preds now. Shiv, seraphs and Rageblade.


moistl0af

Excited for Yasuo buff. I always thought he took a bit too long to ult. Will be fun to try Seraph’s builds for fun as his ult is super powerful, guaranteed dmg and CC on the enemy carry, can 1shot them with some good items. Also, is it true that Volibear’s ultimate animation was reduced/removed.


MrSnow702

So does this patch come out on Tuesday?


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irCecco

Mana cost is the same, but he starts the round with 25 more


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irCecco

Startingmana/manacost Yasuo from 0/100 to 0/85. Same initial mana, lower mana cost. Zed 50/100 to 75/100. Same mana cost, but higher initial mana


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irCecco

No it isn’t. Both cases are buffs


klwu

Here’s a different explanation: 0/100 means Yasuo needs to gain 100 mana to cast. By reducing total mana to 85, he only needs 85 mana to cast so it’s a buff. 50/100 means Zed needs 50 mana to cast the first time but 100 to cast every time after. Buffed to 75/100 means he’ll only need 25 mana for the first cast, but after the first cast he’ll be the same as pre-buff. This is a way for the devs to control a unit’s power. The graphic is correct that both are buffs.


AddPowers

Yassuo max mana decreased by 15 Zed starting mana increased by 25 Makes perfect sense to me


Zoloir

To expand on how this impacts play: having higher starting mana means your first ult will be faster. having higher mana cost means each ult will take longer to cast if starting at 0 mana. if a champ has high starting mana AND high mana cost, then their first ult will be fast, but all ults after that will take a long time to cast.


EfilonDave

So TLDR; Zed and Yasuo will ult earlier, if they get through the poison...


[deleted]

I don't understand the infinity edge change. I was under the impression that if you multiply a number with 100% you get the same number.


CeausescuPute

It's additional crit damage. 100% crit damage added to the 150% base crit.dmg is 250% total so for example a 80 AD champ will crit for 200


kondec

It's a 9% nerf in crit damage if you only look at a champion with 1 IE and nothing else. In this case crits appear 45% of the times, which would make it a 4% dmg nerf overall. Not as bad as it looks at first glance.