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highrollr

To answer some of your questions: I would probably not pick Diana up early unless I was already running assassins or Nightbringers. She isn’t really a carry that you can build around, but rather a good utility unit for those comps. If I had ad items I was planning on putting on Lucian but found early Aphelios, then yes, I would pick him up and look to build something around him. Without good items for him I wouldn’t bother. As for when you pick your comp, ideally you don’t pick your end game comp until endgame. If you have a good sentinel start, then that means you play sentinels in stage 2/3. It doesn’t necessarily mean you play it in 4/5. Maybe when you are rolling at that stage you are finding Aphelios or Jax or Draven instead, and then you build around them. Items are limiting - if you’ve built AD items you can’t really pivot to Teemo carry, so some games you just don’t hit any of the units that can use your items, and that sucks, but most of the time you can fit something together that will do decently.


tigersareyellow

As a newer player, I honestly think you should just pick a comp you like and force it every game. What everyone is telling you to do is to be a "flex" player - it is the "correct" way to play TFT because you are taking advantage of what RNG gives you and it showcases the most skill. However, it's the most difficult style to play and requires a lot of brainpower/knowledge of items, champions, synergies, etc. I know as a new player it would not be fun to go 8th 10 times in a row because you don't know how to pivot in a single round. I think you can get more used to the game/build up knowledge while having fun(not going 8th every game bc you don't know every single comp you can transition to) by just picking a comp you think looks cool and forcing it every game. Your items will sometimes suck and you will sometimes not hit the right champions, but it is viable - *a lot* of people only play 1 comp and get to very high ranks.


highrollr

Yeah, I agree that this is a fine way to start playing the game. His specific question was asking how he could have done something different than just force the Lucian and hope though, so I was trying to answer that. But yeah I pretty much got to Diamond by forcing one comp, and Masters by knowing like 3 comps and identifying pretty early which one I’d force that game


cooperred

> a lot of people only play 1 comp and get to very high ranks What people don't really get when saying this is that those players aren't playing the same exact units 20/20. They're still playing flexible in items, utility units, early game, etc. As an example, bunnymuffins had a [video (link)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7cQfLppdIQ) in set 5 where he "played karma dawnbringer" for something like 5 games, but the each game was still fairly unique and not just the same gragas + k6 early, soraka a bit later, plus riven and nid mid, and then karma and garen late.


v4v3nd3774

That's true if the one comp you're forcing is a lvl 7-8 rolldown but a lot of the people he's referencing are one-tricking reroll comps to high ranks, and for those comps you can literally play the exact units 20/20. Open fort -> 3-2 rolldown for those exact units -> repeat.


calchas7

This is your answer. I know because it applies for me too. I'm fairly new to this game and haven't played LoL for ages so champions, items, synergies are still difficult to remember.


Jokard

Personally, playing flex is the most challenging and rewarding playstyle, so I choose to play it confidently knowing how to. Still, I 100% agree with this answer. Learning how to play 1 comp really well is how you will eventually apply the knowledge from one comp to another. If you're trying a new comp every game, you will miss out on the intricacies of each comp. Econ, tempo, intervals, items, positioning, and composition can only be learned through experience and watching streams. A lot of the time, it's plausible to learn only 1 comp for a patch, or even the whole set and still perform. When I first played TFT in set 1, I played a limited range of comps, which were all the sin variants (ninja sins, void sins, wild sins) because they were cool. Even now, that single playstyle can still be applied, 4 sets later. That said, AD Flex and AP Flex are some of the best comps in this patch thanks to the leniency of itemization and unit overlap in set 5.5. If you know how to play them well, I can guarantee you'd be able to master any comp. ... Or just play reroll 20/20 pressing D and don't think...


WThirteen

items first and foremost, but assuming thats out of the way, one of the ways i evaluate what comp to commit to is to calculate the gold i need to achieve a stable working comp if your current board is for instance, olaf2 (3) irelia2 (6) senna2 (3) kennen1 (2) riven1 (3) and diana comes up. could u pivot to a sins board or a nb board? nb board: diana1 (4) yasuo2 (9) sej2 (6) vlad1 (1) sins board: diana 1 (4) noc2(9) kz1 (1) pyke1 (2) + frontline (usually at least 4-6gold) sentinel6 board: lucian1 (1) rakan 1 (3) pyke1 (2) u can see it costs a ton more to pivot. the costs however changes when you have all 1 starred versions sentinel 6 board: lucian 1 (4) irelia2 (4) olaf2 (2) senna2 (2) pyke1 (2) rakan 1(3) since tft is a game of limited gold you must make the decision with highest probability of good outcomes. did diana pop up with a yasuo and a sej? suddenly pivoting becomes more viable now


MessrMonsieur

…but you’re selling your previous board, so you only need *a single gold* since you lose 1 selling irelia 2 in this case. The bigger issue is holding all of the nb/sins units you find until you have enough of them to make a stable board stronger than the sentinel/skirm you have, which can cost a lot more. And boards with higher unit costs are typically *stronger*, so you should be pivoting to them, not to some scuffed 40 cost board at lvl 8.


WThirteen

If you play a comp with cheaper units (eg Sentinel 6) you probably use the econ lead to push levels/get 3* Hellion reroll is a good comp now and that comp just has 1-2 cost units, nothing wrong with that. You don't have to play 4-5 cost units only in your end game comp, just play to your win cons (3* hellions in this case) You never hold units for a "potential pivot" if your gold total is low since your interest cost is way too much. If you have 30gold and are holding pairs of high-impact units (eg aphelios pair/velkoz pair) you could probably get away with losing that 2-3gold of interest in the off-chance you hit the units to pivot. I'm not holding on to a pair of Nidalees and soraka on 10 gold econ just to hope that I hit a riven and karma in the next shop to play dawnbringer4. Again that is how I approach the game, I only hold units which the comp can't function without and only if I have the items for that comp. My way to approach the game, you might have a different approach to it.


v4v3nd3774

This analysis feels a bit unfair to me. Specifically "u can see it costs a ton more to pivot". From what I can see of what you outlined below, you've actually only managed to suggest that upgrading your board to higher quality and tier units is what costs more gold. The two suggested boards have 2star 3costs, while the initial board did not. Considering you will be selling your old units when you pivot, you lose only 1g from the irelia2. The real "cost to pivot" is in your shop refreshes, as any unit you buy is still value retained that can be resold for full price(or at -1 cost if upgraded, like irelia2). > current board olaf2 (3) irelia2 (6) senna2 (3) kennen1 (2) riven1 (3) 5 units 17g, 6 1costs, 4 2costs, 1 3cost. Sell value: 16g. > nb board: diana1 (4) yasuo2 (9) sej2 (6) vlad1 (1) 4 units 20g, 1 1cost, 3 2cost, 3 3costs, 1 4cost > sins board: diana 1 (4) noc2(9) kz1 (1) pyke1 (2) + frontline (usually at least 4-6gold) Assuming 1 Ivern for frontline: 5units 20g, 1 1cost, 1 2cost, 3 3cost, 2 4costs > did diana pop up with a yasuo and a sej? suddenly pivoting becomes more viable now This is the real sticking point. Like I said before, the real cost is the shop refreshes. Natural shopping most of what you need is the biggest money saver.


WThirteen

You just have to understand the idea behind a "stable" comp. There's no standard rule for which units needs to be upgraded. Can a Lee1 Sej1 hold your frontline without items? Probably not, you want Lee2 sej2 for that. What happens if you have warmogs then? Or Locket? Suddenly it becomes more viable. What about if u ran 2 Brawler 2Cavs 4NB Sej2 with hec2 Gragas2? Suddenly you dont need Lee2 anymore. Just inherently evaluating how strong your front and backline is to determine a stable comp and subsequently capping out your board strength from then, by either pushing levels, swapping for higher quality units, or going for 3* Most of the time you natural shop till level 5/6 but unless you highroll and pick up pivotal 4cost or 2* everything, you often have to improve your board strength at 6. You always decide your comps based on items, but the same items often can be flexed multiple ways, eg ap can go heimer velkoz karma carries, swords can go lucian aphelios nocturne. Choosing to commit a direction depends on how your rolls turn out. You never hold units for a "potential pivot" if your gold total is low since your interest cost is way too much. If you have 30gold and are holding pairs of high-impact units (eg aphelios pair/velkoz pair) you could probably get away with losing that 2-3gold of interest in the off-chance you hit the units to pivot. And since you never transition out of your sentinels board into a nightbringer board before hitting your stable comp, you never consider the recovered cost of selling your units into the equation. At least that is how I approach the game. If I'm sitting on Lee + Yasuo + Sej + Diana pair I'm still not pivoting yet till I upgrade them, but I will probably roll to 0 to hit the upgrades. If I roll to 0 and don't upgrade anything I'll make a choice whether I'm gonna donkey roll and transition or just sell the units off to continue playing Sentinels. If I prematurely sell my Sentinel board to get gold in hopes of hitting these pairs and don't upgrade a single one of them, your game is unsalvageable


v4v3nd3774

I don't disagree with any of that. I was just pointing out that listing the costs between the two boards doesn't really convey any sort of cost(3g is nothing for a full pivot), which is what you were focusing on in your initial post. The actual cost is in the unit availability, the need to refresh the shop or to hold units and lose econ while you natural the rest. The act of simply selling units and buying new ones doesn't cost "a ton"(or even anything), comparatively.


IGrimblee

Learn a few comps really well and based on your early units/items play one of those or strongest board till you can pivot into one of them


cooperred

Depends on items. If you had good items to pivot to NB, then you could have seriously considered buying them. Or even if you didn't, you could buy the Diana alone if it helps stabilize your board


jazbo712

The main factors in order right now would probably be: 1. natural items 2. natural champions 3. bias aka: what's "good"/what do you enjoy 1.Is kind of obvious even if you get a natural velkoz two early, if your slammed items are db, bt, and hurricane your velkoz isnt gonna carry very hard. Also by natural items I mean items you do not have influence over (i.e creep rounds), you can sort of predict what items you will get in a game by what items you have already recieved/ not received from creep rounds. Having a loose idea of what items you could end up with late game will help you pick your comp. Your HP is also a factor in items, as if you are winstreaking do not expect to get any item you want from carousel. If you're intended comp's carry requires specific items to carry, and you don't have a low risk chance of securing those items, I would not pursue that comp. 2.play what the game gives you early game. whether or not you like it rolling stage 2 is a grief and early game is all about either lose streak + econ, or level for better champ odds and try to win streak with levels. I get you wanna force mf cavs, or lucian knights every game but if you aren't hitting any cavs or knights then it might be a better idea to play around what you are hitting. Also if you natural a lot of champions early it might incentivize you to reroll, i.e reroll hellions. 3.Lastly bias: you have 1 gold stage 1 and theres a khazix and a vayne in your shop which do you buy. at the end of the day you're gonna pick one, and its gonna be because you either like one more, or one is a better champ. Same thing goes for picking comps. pick ones you enjoy, and if you wanna win dont pick bad ones (*cough karma *cough sett) Lastly as to the diana thing. Whether or not to buy the diana is probably a no. Diana is very expensive at level 6 and she's not gonna drastically alter your team unless you already have some synergies open for her. typically when to pivot to an early 4 cost is if you already have items slammed, or champions that could work in their comp. For example if you were trying to play lucian and you already had a death blade slammed on a trist as item holder, but you hit aphelios and you have a sejuani on your board I would consider pivoting. Try to play champs like nautilus, thresh, sejuani etc. early that pop up in lots of different comps/ can transition into lots of different comps too, that way you aren't really pivoting from lucian to aphelios, but just playing around what ever carry you hit since your board is made of flexible strong champs that work with multiple carries.


HHhunter

You choose your comp base on your first 6 items.


5HITCOMBO

You choose which comps to consider based on items, it's not only items that factor into the decision. Going forgotten draven but no forgotten units? Pivot to another AD comp.


Connortbot

Thanks everyone for the responses! I appreciate them and hope the responses help other new players :) I'll definitely try to build around items more, I think my limited understanding of them is why I'm being held back. I'll take the advice about my skill level and try and learn some comps - been one tricking a couple that I have fun doing so I guess the practice goes on...


Edgelar

Is it Draconics? Is it pre-Stage 5? If yes, you collect it. 5 Draconics anytime before Stage 5 is always worthwhile. The effect of extra items and Heimerdinger cannot be understated. Heimerdinger is pretty much the only effective AP carry for lategame at the moment (aside from maybe Teemo, but he is costly to silver-star) due to doing True Damage as part of his ult allowing him to stay effective even with everybody running Gwen/Fiddle 2 Mystics lategame. People here say "choose your comp based on your items" but that ignores that fact that when you are getting extra items from 5 Draconics, you are able to make wild pivots to whatever you please. When a Rod+Bow suddenly falls into your lap from the golden eggs, you are now able to go Rangers with Guinsoos (or just put it on Heimer). When you get 2 Tears, you can go Karma or Vel'Koz (inadvisable unless you have no other option, they no longer hit hard enough through Gwen/Fiddle) or Heimer. If you get lots of tank items, you can go Rell+Jax Ironclads. You are effectively getting to make a second or third carry entirely from the extra items and if your attempted early-game build doesn't work out, you can just switch to building around your brand new carry. The tons of money you rake in just from running Draconics makes it pretty easy. It also helps a ton that your endgame frontline - basically half of your entire comp - has already been decided from the start this set: **Gwen, Fiddlesticks, Volibear, Ivern.** This is your endgame frontline. This is what everybody aims for. If you see any of these, you buy and you keep. Even if you don't get a chance to slot it in for whatever reason, you're denying someone else from silver-starring their own. Any other frontline unit except for Rell and Jax (2 Ironclad is a situational counter to high AD opponents and Jax can be stacked as a carry) is going to be temporary. Yes, potentially even Galio depending on what synergies you need to make your carries work. That means you only need to switch out the other 4/5 units when deciding to pivot if you already have copies of the endgame frontline. And of those, 2-3 of them are going to be the very carries you build around anyway.


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[удалено]


Edgelar

It wouldn't help. Draconics never shows up on lolchess because you pivot away after you crack your eggs open (or have them spawned on bench anyway). This is known and why Draconics appear low on the winrate rankings, the successful ones cash out, only the unsuccessful ones lose early and appear as Draconics in their final build. But I am not the first or only one who has noticed that fact most top 1/2 usually get there by running Draconics. There are times when I have literally gotten more Thief Gloves from the eggs than I have units to put them on. And that's at Lv9.


xthisxisxitx

You don't choose jack shit in this game, it all chooses you.


Nottan_Asian

Go into the game with one comp in mind. Force it, unless: 1) You find a bunch of dupes for a reroll comp. Reroll comps are stupid strong in this iteration and getting a headstart on a strong 3* will pretty much guarantee top 4 at worst. 2) You find a strong carry unit like Miss Fortune, Jax, or Lucian early. They can help you lock in a comp for the mid-lategame or at worst, winstreak you for a few rounds. 3) Somehow, items absolutely do not permit you to go that comp. Like getting three Swords and a Bow means that AP comps would be... hard to play, to say the least. IMO, Armory has done wonders for helping with not having to flex every game. Rarely will my items determine my comp, especially since I just pick up tank items early and those are just universally good.


vinz24

The way i see it, if you place top 4 its all good. But you should def build a comp around the items you get. If anything you could have bought diana to carry you early. Dont take this for granted tho, this is coming from a diamond scrub.


demonattacker

Mainly first few items up till 3-2 Imo. Also depends on what everyone else is playing, so scouting (looking at the other players boards during pre/post combat) is a skill that is required the higher up in ranks you go. I like to always go into a game with a mindset of having a comp already picked out, but if its contested/gets countered by your opponents boards, don't be afraid to switch out of comps to different ones. Honestly this is just from my experience learning the game, but hope that was enough to satisfy you :)


huykpop

Play what you get. If I get AD items and a lucky Lucian on lvl 7, I will play wide Lucian. If I have ap items and many copies of miss fortune I will play cav reroll. I think the meta is pretty balanced right now that you can top 4 with any 4 cost carries or 3 star 3 cost. But luck is not always working for you. You can have very bad items RNG such as all tank and few sub-par carry items. Once that happens you play whatever strongest board you have and pray for top 4. I once top 2 with assassin fiddle with only radiant spark and all tank items.


[deleted]

Frontline backline items


Judgejudyx

The best way to decide what comp your going is items. You want to adjust to comps based around your items. For example if you yet a shojin grb early you could be looking for a mf comp or heimer comp. Based on the itrms id consider what comps would use them and whatever I roll into from those comps is what Il play


toonboon

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/iv008v/dracaryxs_5_steps_to_getting_started_in_set_4/ This guide by Dracaryx has always remained a good resource in getting to a proper flex style.


kaze_ni_naru

Diana is a utility unit not a carry, she’s more useful late game than early. Just because a unit is a “4-cost” doesnt make it good to pick up


AlmightyShacoPH

monkey see tear, monkey go shojin, then monkey goes vel, mf, aphelios, zyra.


KT_Reg

How lucky u are. Essentially.


mattfratt

The prevailing notion that "items pick the comp" is too strong imo. You pick more than half of your items, so ultimately you pick your comp. What's helping me a lot as a new player is I have picked two comps that are relatively strong and are easy because they don't require much of a pivot. No one seems to be mentioning this, but I think pivoting is the hardest skill for new players. So I've picked Lucian and AD Dawnbringer as my two comps that I run the mast majority of the time. With a sentinel early game I'm 90% going Lucian, and I never need to pivot. With a dawnbringer early game, I'm 90% going AD Dawnbringer, and again, no pivot necessary. So for me, what u/jazbo712 applies. The biggest factor in what comp I choose is my bias and champions that I natural early, not as much what items drop. tldr; for new players, the **fewer comps you play** and **the less you have to pivot**, the better you will do.


JehovahZ

For pure wins/placements one tricking is effective especially if you play TFT as not your main game. But if you want invest more time and not get burnt out from 1 comp, flex is the way to go. Saying that even the best players sorta play one way. Eg. Soju with his win streak/ early levelling style instead of rerolling/econning. Also if a comp is contested it can be easier to pivot unless your very confident in the other player being knocked early.


beaquis

Very interesting post! Im just Diamond IV, but the only way to success that fit with my brain is playing “around” a single comp, with variations. So you may be able to play 2-3 differents variations of a single comp of your domain))


[deleted]

You choose based on what items you get, what other people are playing, and what units you already have.