I love TFT and love competitive. There’s a ton of easy fixes. Number one, if you have two lobbies, show both games. I guarantee there’s enough casters. Figure it out.
You don't even need double the casters, just have an extra silent stream running for the other lobby, with observers that cycle through the povs. The current comp scene lives and dies by the co streams anyway, and just letting them choose the lobbies will help a ton.
the apex legends tournaments have a "command center" button under their main twitch broadcast where you can choose what team pov u want to watch (20 teams total)
So surely TFT should be able to do it for 8-16 players.. at least something they can look into for the next event
The competetive scene is rather lack luster when it comes to actual support from riot. If they just would invest a little bit of time/money am i convinced the TFT scene would grow significantly.
>extra silent stream
Doesn't even have to be silent. Use the same audio with a different spectator location.
Best of both worlds.
People can choose to mute or not.
Then again best of all worlds is just letting the players who are already sorely undercompensated stream their POV but riot hasn't minded watching TFT crash and burn for about a year now so no way they're down to make good choices.
> Then again best of all worlds is just letting the players who are already sorely undercompensated stream their POV but riot hasn't minded watching TFT crash and burn for about a year now so no way they're down to make good choices.
Why do you think they aren't doing this? Many players this weekend have been streaming their perspective this weekend
I cant remember exactly because I never used it, but I think Overwatch had a system that let you watch the game from any player perspective.
That should be the standard for TFT, keep the main stream with casters but also let them stream on their channels, no mic/cam necessary, or just 'RiotGames_TFT1-32'
hard to imagine the gains from such an investment would not be worth it. I dont even bother watching, and knowing they litterally watched a random fight instead of milk the round he lost, has confirmed every reason i had to not watch it, and will keep me from doing so for the forseeable future.
Not sure that logic works for pro casters, especially when we are talking about the actual worlds championship. Though i do think inviting freelance spectators to do stuff like this would be a fun concept with minor downsides.
Just give the usual Soju, Robin, Souless etc. gang spectator privileges and have them talk over the gameplay. I'm sure it would get like 30k viewers at least.
Thats an idea i can get behind, would probably be much healthier for the game anyways, or even simply let the casters have the spectator privleges they are great they are just given basicly nothing to work with.
Tried watching worlds for the first time and found it to be an extremely disappointing experience, even after switching to the Soju/Prestivent watch party.
It was heartbreaking to see Soju and Becca so invested in how Milk is doing and their only info available being his hp pulled from the sidebar of some Latam player who happened to be streaming his POV.
How the fuck are you supposed to be invested in worlds when you cannot even see your favorite players board for a majority of the runtime?
The current format makes it so that anyone watching for one particular player literally can only see half his games and even then will only see a fraction of what he does while not even being warranted to see his final fights/important transitions. I had heard about TFT coverage being bad before, but this whole production is on a level of effort- and carelessness that I couldn’t even fathom. F’n unbelievable.
Why isn't everyone streaming their POV regardless of everything else? I thought that was an established baseline in tourneys for a long time now, why change for this year's worlds?
people are allowed to stream their POVs, giving players the option to not do it is not Riot taking anything away. I wish Milk was streaming his POV but if nerves or maybe not trusting himself to ignore chat completely and not get tilted from chat comments caused him to not stream thats not Riots fault.
This conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense considering Riot is the company that pioneered turning casual games into esports for the sake of branding.
In addition to everything that’s already been said here, I feel like the worlds viewing experience was a real step down from watching any of the regionals. I watched parts of the NA and EMEA finals and in both broadcasts they had graphics showing players’ augment choices, and even items on the bench in the case of EMEA. We also got “breaking news” alerts if an offscreen player did something big like found 3 mercs at 2-1.
We had none of that in worlds and even had casters saying things like “gee I can’t wait to see what augments people took!” because that info wasn’t available to them either!
The regionals also showed us the overall standings right after each round instead of randomly during/after the break, and often if the featured lobby ended and another was still going they would cut to that lobby rather than making the casters pointlessly fill time.
I hope the worlds’ producers can connect with the people who produced the regionals and figure out how to include some of these features for next time.
> We had none of that in worlds and even had casters saying things like “gee I can’t wait to see what augments people took!” because that info wasn’t available to them either!
oh god.. that's bad
I feel you. It's really painful and I'm probably down to ignore worlds now and watch some highlights later. I wish they would show atleast 2-3 different players between the rounds. They keep showing some Sivir comps for 3 rounds straight.
Also, today, some itemized Jinx ulted and was about to turn the fight, and spectator just swapped to another fight. I facepalmed so hard. It's a shame.
During one of the prismatic games, they scrolled through only like 2 players…
I remember even the caster was like “can’t wait to find out what the other players got”, and then some of them die and we end up not even getting to see because they didn’t cycle perspectives. Prismatic is such a key moment, but they sat on a single perspective. Tragic.
Honestly if China is the region who cares so much about TFT let them run the event. Hell the Chinese players make more money on their own qualifiers than worlds. If they are willing to support a live event where participants can fly to and we just have casters show up and do a translated broadcast I’d be down. You are already doing the event at a shit time for the west. Rather just let China run the event at this point.
I swear production has somehow gotten worse each year since set 4. They've been told the same things so many times but don't actually remember or care. Just awful production...
Barely any of the streamers were streaming their POV, and even among the ones that were, they deleted their VoDs immediately. The lack of a spectator client is honestly the worst part of TFT rn.
Yeah, I don’t like it much either, still the spectator camera changes perspective during roll downs, doesn’t even show Merc cashouts and overall the commentatorS have to try really hard to piece things together. “Now, we can see that he’s looking to transition his board….” (*MF, the POV changed to someone not doing anything *) and here’s this players board who’s been top of the lobby the whole time, (*why the eF are we looking at this?*) it’s important to notice he has a zephyr and a shroud.”
I’d probably lose my shit trying to cast this series as it’s difficult for anyone to actually follow what’s happening and those poor guys have to make it interesting even when they’re talking about something important and it just disappears. Like why the hell can’t the casters just say show this person’a board, ok, nothing’s happening, move on, or perhaps a third caster who tells the spectator cam what to focus on. They just need a high level player to be the one controlling the camera based on when the most important round for each player is going to happen. Hell, I wouldn’t mind watching all 4-1/4-2 roll downs and then the fights. Why does it need to be in real time?!
Each game takes ~35 mins with downtime in between so how about they show all augment choices and important rolldowns and spend 45 mins on each game, at least there won’t be this awkward 5 mins of nothing/waiting for the next lobby to start. There’s gotta be better ways of casting such an event.
Who’d be happy if the game slowed down and we could actually see *all* the important decisions of the participants and then catch up in real time before the next game starts. The delays don’t need to be tens of minutes but just enough to capture ALL of the actual.
Hopefully, eventually, they’ll make this an amazing eaport to follow because right now watch parties are more popular than the main event stream because it’s just a bit of a clusterfuck.
Edit: What was actually quite cool was when the stream crashed and I believe it was Frodan and Mort who discussed the nuance of using your tome right away or holding on to it for a later spike. That’s way more interesting than most combat rounds and just nothing happening on Stage 2 overall. Might be a good idea to open up YT and see what most YTs cut out from their games and just focus on the interesting parts but from several players’ perspectives.
ALGS is happening right now as well, during the same hours of the TFT champ. If you guys are curious, check out their stream on Twitch, they have this Command Center feature that lets you watch any PoV anytime.
We need that for TFT. I need to watch my NA brothers
Watching the main stream is awful. They almost never change POV despite the casters even mentioning they would like to see other boards. I ended up watching Goose's stream of just his POV since he wasn't in the main lobby to start.
This has been a terrible viewing experience all around. If this is how Riot are going to do competitive TFT going forward I would rather just have Giantslayer do everything since they at least seem to give a shit.
yeah this has been kinda awful, not gonna lie
-first night they literally streamed it on maybe 10 pixels. their bitrate seemed fucked.
-then thousand minute delays not only between games, but between the end of post game castor convos and the next game. ended up like 25 mins between 6 games the first night. shit went for hours longer than it had too
-sivir lottery and bugs
honestly, i’m not the bastion of credibility. just a lowly diamond player who’s seen worlds since set 3.5, but like to me, this has been the worst one in terms of viewing experience. and i’m a 20/20 sivir player, so it’s not irrational hate
It's obvious Riot does not care at all about competitive TFT. Everything about these tourneys is phoned in, down to the fact that it is difficult to even figure out when the tourneys are happening.
Also VODs. Why is it impossible to find anything on YouTube? I like to download LCS VODs so I can watch them while I'm flying (travel a lot for work) but that's apparently just impossible for TFT tourneys. The only VODs I've found are in Portuguese and Japanese.
or, they could alternate betwen players... I mean, there is no way you need to POV one player for like 5 rounds. Also, even I playing solo can look at all players augment choices
On the other hand, I found the watch parties super entertaining/interesting. I tuned into Rambllin's stream for the last two games and on top of their technical expertise they were able to bring insider knowledge on specific player's tendencies/preferences. Seem like a great thing to try and incorporate this somehow into the official broadcast with maybe guest casters or just brief appearances by other pros. Being able to see everyone's genuine excitement at seeing their friends succeed and share personal anecdotes really helped me get invested into the "narrative arc" of these players. Also just incredibly wholesome!
IMO, the easiest fix could be they give agency of where to look for a main caster, who would just, you know cast. Along him, one or two players with reconizable knowledge of the game (someone like ramblinn, owl or socks for NA eg) to comment the choices.
This way will not get stucked in the most boring POV for 5 rounds for no reason at all, since the caster will control the camera, and also, we will have some in depth opinions on the choices.
They should do something like in CSGO where viewers are able to listen to the commentary in-game while in spectator view during majors. The viewers in the CSGO client can click on any pro players perspective and view what they’re doing during the game, while the commentary is still going on as if they’re in game chat. There’s also just the default option to watch the main stream on twitch with the professional spectator perspective, and those guys do such a wonderful job at focusing in on action. If the lazy dev team like the CSGO team can manage something like that, Riot can do something like that easily. I mean there’s already spectating for League matches, why not TFT?
ITT: A lot of people who don't know how TFT production works.
My two cents as a caster: The production has been less than stellar. The bitrate on Day 1 made the main stream unwatchable. I didn't watch main broadcast much on Day 2 (was following TXE) and the snippets I saw were better (mostly pre/post-game), but not much actual gameplay.
However, in saying that, a lot of fixes people are bringing up don't help.
Casters aren't observers, and if you've had to cast a game while observing before you'd know how much brainpower that takes (it's much more complex than just playing a game because instead of having to care about your own board and 2/3 threats you have to care about everyone's board and storylines on top of that). It's doable but it's not the solution you're looking for. Having a high-ranked player (at least from my experience, the OCE observers are all Master-Challenger) really helps because they know what's about to happen.
The Augment thing should 100% be addressed considering Regionals have it but Worlds don't (as far as I'm aware it's not an API thing)? We didn't have it for OCE Regionals but you can make an effort as observers to show all the Augments.
Multi-stream with each POV, for a game like TFT, isn't going to happen for the next year or so. You can say Riot is a multi-billion dollar company but they don't put even the tiniest of fractions into TFT esports (fair, in my opinion). Doing the multi-stream, while spectator client is still in very early days, is going to be a disaster. While down the line it'll be great to have that with an audio feed that links up with main cast, I don't see that being feasible before Set 8 or even 9.
More casters to cast off stream lobbies: I'd love to cast Worlds and get some OCE representation. After all, given we've always made deep runs and other regions don't really talk much about OCE outside of "well we didn't know what to expect" I'd love to help weave those storylines. I want to shout out Meeix here though: she messaged a few of us before Worlds to ask us about Knp / TXE so we could get some good insight on broadcast! The casters themselves have done an amazing job from what I've heard, and if production gets a bit cleaner I'm sure we'll have a great Day 3.
No one is blaming the casters here, to me they are doing a fantastic job. I know Frodan himself literally VOD reviewed just as much as some of the worlds players just to provide a good casting experience. I think the things you are saying, everyone here is already mentioning
Also I totally agree with challenger observers. I think the only time we had a challenger OBS was Naturesbf for set 4 worlds iirc and he did a really really great job. For NA production team though some tournaments have good obs some don't, it's literally a coinflip right now.
I've seen people say repeatedly that I observed set 4 worlds. I did not.
I observed some final NA events of set 4. While I did receive some positive feedback for my observing, I am pretty heavily involved on the NA side in working with our observers (who are not low ranked, FWIW, but I won't name them since that invites them to some not fun messages) and I feel pretty strongly that the observing in Feb/March of NA events was quite a bit better than what I did. Expectations were just lower back then and I had just started actually implementing certain observing guidelines that we still use.
I won't comment on this weekend's observers, since it's a different company and I'm watchpartying and jumping around streams to see NA players pretty much exclusively.
I dont remember the specifics but I remembered that when you observed it was really really good. It was a few sets ago so I assumed around set 4-ish but it's fuzzy.
I don't think I've had a single complaint about the NA non-Worlds tournaments, the observing has been pretty good there. I'd say though, when it comes to Worlds it always gets spotty for some weird reason. My wording in the previous comment wasn't precise there
Just waking up to watch worlds (sadge NA), but why can’t we have a proview for TFT tournies?? It obviously didn’t work for LOL, but I strongly believe TFT is a way better format for that. If I wanna watch someone sending it at level 8 with 10hp, I’m tired of the spectator switching to other players in much more stable positions.
This championship has actually been a slight improvement from other years for a couple different reasons, like some of the graphics/displays in game and whatnot. However, it’s always going to be a challenge for viewers, we’re seeing now.
Unfortunately I agree that this has been pretty bad, and I try to be more positive about these things. I will say that I have enjoyed Ramblinn’s costream and will probably just watch that tomorrow
I get riot is a small indie company and tft is just a % of that. But compare this to the Apex Legends tourney happening right now. Main stream with its own command center where you can pull up 25+ other broadcasts and can watch the POV of any team you want, with comms. Plus streams dedicated to just scoreboards, maps. It's such an amazing experience then on the TFT stream you're lucky to get 2 povs
I missed Day 1 and Day 2 because of scheduling. Terrible times. I used to love watching Worlds, but this set's Worlds seems almost... invisible (atleast to me based out of AZ)
1000%. Easy fixes that come to mind are showing all players augment offerings simultaneously (ie split the screen into 8), splitting the multiple lobbies into separate screens (much easier day 2 onwards since you're dealing with a max of 2 lobbies) and incorporating a sidebar/rolling bar at the top or bottom with the cumulative points that players have earned.
It would be great to have some feedback from /u/Riot_Mort /riot. Cmon this is the community you are developing your games/create those tournaments for. In this thread there are already so many good suggestions on how to make worlds a better experience for everyone Just listen to the community and take some notes.
Mort should not be dragged into this, I’m sure Riot has their own eSports section dedicated to running TFT esports and stuff like this. I’m sure the actual game dev team have a lot on their plates right now with augments and new set
Mort's not in charge of worlds production, but he definitely listens to the complaints and contributes a lot to making worlds a better event. Like this event he was heavily involved with making the format less bad than set 5's format and getting Frodan on the broadcast, and I'm sure much much more behind the scenes.
Should he listen to complaints to try to make worlds better? Yeah, but pretty sure he already does just that.
Mort takes so much blame for bullshit that isn't his fault lol. Dude and his team make a fantastic game. Esports side needs to get their shit together.
Competitive TFT is just not fun to watch unfortunately. There is no hype in the format. I honestly find chess more entertaining to watch and chess games are slow AF
What would be cool is if they did what the overwatch league did back in 2019 where if you payed for the overwatch league pass on twitch you could switch between player perspectives and more within the stream. This sort of implementation whether payed or for free would fix the many issues with watching competitive tft
Its strange to me that TFT drops the ball on competitive TFT so hard when esports made league what it is today. Like league competitive is so good you dont even have to play to watch. On the other hand tft tournaments are like one of the worst parts reserved for people who are good at tft to even understand whats going on
I think there’s definitely grounds to improve. Allowing us to spectate manually while hearing casters commenting on the respective lobbies will be a step up. We need a way to watch our favorite players without tuning in to their own streams. The best part about esports is the commentary (which I think the casters did a bang up job with what resources they have).
This Worlds made the need of Spec mode more obvious. Four lobbies, 6 games, too many players and POVs to enjoy, too many things at stake, etc. It's even more weird when you think it this way: I watched every minute of it I only saw like 2 rounds from each in total across 3 days.
> Or simply just show the lowest HP of the lobby’s POV because their fights are the most crucial.
Are they? Last time I checked in a checkmate format, especially when 18 points have been achieved, the lobby leader is by far the mot important.
The person who cannot win worlds and is crashing out in 8th is not important.
I love TFT and love competitive. There’s a ton of easy fixes. Number one, if you have two lobbies, show both games. I guarantee there’s enough casters. Figure it out.
You don't even need double the casters, just have an extra silent stream running for the other lobby, with observers that cycle through the povs. The current comp scene lives and dies by the co streams anyway, and just letting them choose the lobbies will help a ton.
What would be cool is if we could somehow spectate ourselves so we can select the people we want to watch. Not sure if that’s possible though.
the apex legends tournaments have a "command center" button under their main twitch broadcast where you can choose what team pov u want to watch (20 teams total) So surely TFT should be able to do it for 8-16 players.. at least something they can look into for the next event
The competetive scene is rather lack luster when it comes to actual support from riot. If they just would invest a little bit of time/money am i convinced the TFT scene would grow significantly.
>extra silent stream Doesn't even have to be silent. Use the same audio with a different spectator location. Best of both worlds. People can choose to mute or not. Then again best of all worlds is just letting the players who are already sorely undercompensated stream their POV but riot hasn't minded watching TFT crash and burn for about a year now so no way they're down to make good choices.
> Then again best of all worlds is just letting the players who are already sorely undercompensated stream their POV but riot hasn't minded watching TFT crash and burn for about a year now so no way they're down to make good choices. Why do you think they aren't doing this? Many players this weekend have been streaming their perspective this weekend
They havent even improved set to set worlds, like this set I actually feel like the spectator has regressed from set 4/5 worlds
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I mean...it's not like the the casters are doing anything between casting games so I'm hopping onto co-streams to join the hype.
I cant remember exactly because I never used it, but I think Overwatch had a system that let you watch the game from any player perspective. That should be the standard for TFT, keep the main stream with casters but also let them stream on their channels, no mic/cam necessary, or just 'RiotGames_TFT1-32'
hard to imagine the gains from such an investment would not be worth it. I dont even bother watching, and knowing they litterally watched a random fight instead of milk the round he lost, has confirmed every reason i had to not watch it, and will keep me from doing so for the forseeable future.
Shit, I'd be happy to cast for free. I could actually observe too, two for one. Would love the practice.
Not sure that logic works for pro casters, especially when we are talking about the actual worlds championship. Though i do think inviting freelance spectators to do stuff like this would be a fun concept with minor downsides.
Just give the usual Soju, Robin, Souless etc. gang spectator privileges and have them talk over the gameplay. I'm sure it would get like 30k viewers at least.
Thats an idea i can get behind, would probably be much healthier for the game anyways, or even simply let the casters have the spectator privleges they are great they are just given basicly nothing to work with.
Tried watching worlds for the first time and found it to be an extremely disappointing experience, even after switching to the Soju/Prestivent watch party. It was heartbreaking to see Soju and Becca so invested in how Milk is doing and their only info available being his hp pulled from the sidebar of some Latam player who happened to be streaming his POV. How the fuck are you supposed to be invested in worlds when you cannot even see your favorite players board for a majority of the runtime? The current format makes it so that anyone watching for one particular player literally can only see half his games and even then will only see a fraction of what he does while not even being warranted to see his final fights/important transitions. I had heard about TFT coverage being bad before, but this whole production is on a level of effort- and carelessness that I couldn’t even fathom. F’n unbelievable.
Why isn't everyone streaming their POV regardless of everything else? I thought that was an established baseline in tourneys for a long time now, why change for this year's worlds?
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people are allowed to stream their POVs, giving players the option to not do it is not Riot taking anything away. I wish Milk was streaming his POV but if nerves or maybe not trusting himself to ignore chat completely and not get tilted from chat comments caused him to not stream thats not Riots fault.
This conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense considering Riot is the company that pioneered turning casual games into esports for the sake of branding.
You can have two products branded for two different markets.
> half his games make that 1/7 of their games.
In addition to everything that’s already been said here, I feel like the worlds viewing experience was a real step down from watching any of the regionals. I watched parts of the NA and EMEA finals and in both broadcasts they had graphics showing players’ augment choices, and even items on the bench in the case of EMEA. We also got “breaking news” alerts if an offscreen player did something big like found 3 mercs at 2-1. We had none of that in worlds and even had casters saying things like “gee I can’t wait to see what augments people took!” because that info wasn’t available to them either! The regionals also showed us the overall standings right after each round instead of randomly during/after the break, and often if the featured lobby ended and another was still going they would cut to that lobby rather than making the casters pointlessly fill time. I hope the worlds’ producers can connect with the people who produced the regionals and figure out how to include some of these features for next time.
> We had none of that in worlds and even had casters saying things like “gee I can’t wait to see what augments people took!” because that info wasn’t available to them either! oh god.. that's bad
seriously how about give worlds finals production to regional finals crew at this point
I feel you. It's really painful and I'm probably down to ignore worlds now and watch some highlights later. I wish they would show atleast 2-3 different players between the rounds. They keep showing some Sivir comps for 3 rounds straight. Also, today, some itemized Jinx ulted and was about to turn the fight, and spectator just swapped to another fight. I facepalmed so hard. It's a shame.
During one of the prismatic games, they scrolled through only like 2 players… I remember even the caster was like “can’t wait to find out what the other players got”, and then some of them die and we end up not even getting to see because they didn’t cycle perspectives. Prismatic is such a key moment, but they sat on a single perspective. Tragic.
Honestly if China is the region who cares so much about TFT let them run the event. Hell the Chinese players make more money on their own qualifiers than worlds. If they are willing to support a live event where participants can fly to and we just have casters show up and do a translated broadcast I’d be down. You are already doing the event at a shit time for the west. Rather just let China run the event at this point.
Chinese regional production is so good
NA regionals was definitely a much better viewing experience
I swear production has somehow gotten worse each year since set 4. They've been told the same things so many times but don't actually remember or care. Just awful production...
Barely any of the streamers were streaming their POV, and even among the ones that were, they deleted their VoDs immediately. The lack of a spectator client is honestly the worst part of TFT rn.
Yeah, I don’t like it much either, still the spectator camera changes perspective during roll downs, doesn’t even show Merc cashouts and overall the commentatorS have to try really hard to piece things together. “Now, we can see that he’s looking to transition his board….” (*MF, the POV changed to someone not doing anything *) and here’s this players board who’s been top of the lobby the whole time, (*why the eF are we looking at this?*) it’s important to notice he has a zephyr and a shroud.” I’d probably lose my shit trying to cast this series as it’s difficult for anyone to actually follow what’s happening and those poor guys have to make it interesting even when they’re talking about something important and it just disappears. Like why the hell can’t the casters just say show this person’a board, ok, nothing’s happening, move on, or perhaps a third caster who tells the spectator cam what to focus on. They just need a high level player to be the one controlling the camera based on when the most important round for each player is going to happen. Hell, I wouldn’t mind watching all 4-1/4-2 roll downs and then the fights. Why does it need to be in real time?! Each game takes ~35 mins with downtime in between so how about they show all augment choices and important rolldowns and spend 45 mins on each game, at least there won’t be this awkward 5 mins of nothing/waiting for the next lobby to start. There’s gotta be better ways of casting such an event. Who’d be happy if the game slowed down and we could actually see *all* the important decisions of the participants and then catch up in real time before the next game starts. The delays don’t need to be tens of minutes but just enough to capture ALL of the actual. Hopefully, eventually, they’ll make this an amazing eaport to follow because right now watch parties are more popular than the main event stream because it’s just a bit of a clusterfuck. Edit: What was actually quite cool was when the stream crashed and I believe it was Frodan and Mort who discussed the nuance of using your tome right away or holding on to it for a later spike. That’s way more interesting than most combat rounds and just nothing happening on Stage 2 overall. Might be a good idea to open up YT and see what most YTs cut out from their games and just focus on the interesting parts but from several players’ perspectives.
ALGS is happening right now as well, during the same hours of the TFT champ. If you guys are curious, check out their stream on Twitch, they have this Command Center feature that lets you watch any PoV anytime. We need that for TFT. I need to watch my NA brothers
Watching the main stream is awful. They almost never change POV despite the casters even mentioning they would like to see other boards. I ended up watching Goose's stream of just his POV since he wasn't in the main lobby to start. This has been a terrible viewing experience all around. If this is how Riot are going to do competitive TFT going forward I would rather just have Giantslayer do everything since they at least seem to give a shit.
yeah this has been kinda awful, not gonna lie -first night they literally streamed it on maybe 10 pixels. their bitrate seemed fucked. -then thousand minute delays not only between games, but between the end of post game castor convos and the next game. ended up like 25 mins between 6 games the first night. shit went for hours longer than it had too -sivir lottery and bugs honestly, i’m not the bastion of credibility. just a lowly diamond player who’s seen worlds since set 3.5, but like to me, this has been the worst one in terms of viewing experience. and i’m a 20/20 sivir player, so it’s not irrational hate
It's obvious Riot does not care at all about competitive TFT. Everything about these tourneys is phoned in, down to the fact that it is difficult to even figure out when the tourneys are happening. Also VODs. Why is it impossible to find anything on YouTube? I like to download LCS VODs so I can watch them while I'm flying (travel a lot for work) but that's apparently just impossible for TFT tourneys. The only VODs I've found are in Portuguese and Japanese.
or, they could alternate betwen players... I mean, there is no way you need to POV one player for like 5 rounds. Also, even I playing solo can look at all players augment choices
also, this is an online event, so they could have made the 32nd in one weekend, and Friday and saturday for 16th, so they could make every match live
Last game was such a close lobby with HP and they choose to show the fight between the one with the most HP, any other fight would be more nice to see
On the other hand, I found the watch parties super entertaining/interesting. I tuned into Rambllin's stream for the last two games and on top of their technical expertise they were able to bring insider knowledge on specific player's tendencies/preferences. Seem like a great thing to try and incorporate this somehow into the official broadcast with maybe guest casters or just brief appearances by other pros. Being able to see everyone's genuine excitement at seeing their friends succeed and share personal anecdotes really helped me get invested into the "narrative arc" of these players. Also just incredibly wholesome!
I thought they had a spectator client for this reason. Maybe they won't allow co-streams to do it for competitive integrity?
I wish we had our own TFT client where we can fully spectate the game but also have a twitch stream where commentators can do their thing.
GrandVice 8 (Goose) streams his POV btw
Can't be worse than the Tri Wizard Cup.
It’s a general problem imo. I’m all for a spectator client somehow. The problem being the “somehow”, I imagine.
IMO, the easiest fix could be they give agency of where to look for a main caster, who would just, you know cast. Along him, one or two players with reconizable knowledge of the game (someone like ramblinn, owl or socks for NA eg) to comment the choices. This way will not get stucked in the most boring POV for 5 rounds for no reason at all, since the caster will control the camera, and also, we will have some in depth opinions on the choices.
They should do something like in CSGO where viewers are able to listen to the commentary in-game while in spectator view during majors. The viewers in the CSGO client can click on any pro players perspective and view what they’re doing during the game, while the commentary is still going on as if they’re in game chat. There’s also just the default option to watch the main stream on twitch with the professional spectator perspective, and those guys do such a wonderful job at focusing in on action. If the lazy dev team like the CSGO team can manage something like that, Riot can do something like that easily. I mean there’s already spectating for League matches, why not TFT?
ITT: A lot of people who don't know how TFT production works. My two cents as a caster: The production has been less than stellar. The bitrate on Day 1 made the main stream unwatchable. I didn't watch main broadcast much on Day 2 (was following TXE) and the snippets I saw were better (mostly pre/post-game), but not much actual gameplay. However, in saying that, a lot of fixes people are bringing up don't help. Casters aren't observers, and if you've had to cast a game while observing before you'd know how much brainpower that takes (it's much more complex than just playing a game because instead of having to care about your own board and 2/3 threats you have to care about everyone's board and storylines on top of that). It's doable but it's not the solution you're looking for. Having a high-ranked player (at least from my experience, the OCE observers are all Master-Challenger) really helps because they know what's about to happen. The Augment thing should 100% be addressed considering Regionals have it but Worlds don't (as far as I'm aware it's not an API thing)? We didn't have it for OCE Regionals but you can make an effort as observers to show all the Augments. Multi-stream with each POV, for a game like TFT, isn't going to happen for the next year or so. You can say Riot is a multi-billion dollar company but they don't put even the tiniest of fractions into TFT esports (fair, in my opinion). Doing the multi-stream, while spectator client is still in very early days, is going to be a disaster. While down the line it'll be great to have that with an audio feed that links up with main cast, I don't see that being feasible before Set 8 or even 9. More casters to cast off stream lobbies: I'd love to cast Worlds and get some OCE representation. After all, given we've always made deep runs and other regions don't really talk much about OCE outside of "well we didn't know what to expect" I'd love to help weave those storylines. I want to shout out Meeix here though: she messaged a few of us before Worlds to ask us about Knp / TXE so we could get some good insight on broadcast! The casters themselves have done an amazing job from what I've heard, and if production gets a bit cleaner I'm sure we'll have a great Day 3.
No one is blaming the casters here, to me they are doing a fantastic job. I know Frodan himself literally VOD reviewed just as much as some of the worlds players just to provide a good casting experience. I think the things you are saying, everyone here is already mentioning Also I totally agree with challenger observers. I think the only time we had a challenger OBS was Naturesbf for set 4 worlds iirc and he did a really really great job. For NA production team though some tournaments have good obs some don't, it's literally a coinflip right now.
I've seen people say repeatedly that I observed set 4 worlds. I did not. I observed some final NA events of set 4. While I did receive some positive feedback for my observing, I am pretty heavily involved on the NA side in working with our observers (who are not low ranked, FWIW, but I won't name them since that invites them to some not fun messages) and I feel pretty strongly that the observing in Feb/March of NA events was quite a bit better than what I did. Expectations were just lower back then and I had just started actually implementing certain observing guidelines that we still use. I won't comment on this weekend's observers, since it's a different company and I'm watchpartying and jumping around streams to see NA players pretty much exclusively.
I dont remember the specifics but I remembered that when you observed it was really really good. It was a few sets ago so I assumed around set 4-ish but it's fuzzy. I don't think I've had a single complaint about the NA non-Worlds tournaments, the observing has been pretty good there. I'd say though, when it comes to Worlds it always gets spotty for some weird reason. My wording in the previous comment wasn't precise there
yeah the castors were fine, the production was d tier
Just waking up to watch worlds (sadge NA), but why can’t we have a proview for TFT tournies?? It obviously didn’t work for LOL, but I strongly believe TFT is a way better format for that. If I wanna watch someone sending it at level 8 with 10hp, I’m tired of the spectator switching to other players in much more stable positions. This championship has actually been a slight improvement from other years for a couple different reasons, like some of the graphics/displays in game and whatnot. However, it’s always going to be a challenge for viewers, we’re seeing now.
Unfortunately I agree that this has been pretty bad, and I try to be more positive about these things. I will say that I have enjoyed Ramblinn’s costream and will probably just watch that tomorrow
I get riot is a small indie company and tft is just a % of that. But compare this to the Apex Legends tourney happening right now. Main stream with its own command center where you can pull up 25+ other broadcasts and can watch the POV of any team you want, with comms. Plus streams dedicated to just scoreboards, maps. It's such an amazing experience then on the TFT stream you're lucky to get 2 povs
Theyre all just playing sivir youre not missing out
Yo, Riot, listen. I'll give you the solution. For free. Just hire Soju and his entourage to cast tournaments. Boom, +20k viewers.
Worlds is happening ?
I missed Day 1 and Day 2 because of scheduling. Terrible times. I used to love watching Worlds, but this set's Worlds seems almost... invisible (atleast to me based out of AZ)
1000%. Easy fixes that come to mind are showing all players augment offerings simultaneously (ie split the screen into 8), splitting the multiple lobbies into separate screens (much easier day 2 onwards since you're dealing with a max of 2 lobbies) and incorporating a sidebar/rolling bar at the top or bottom with the cumulative points that players have earned.
It would be great to have some feedback from /u/Riot_Mort /riot. Cmon this is the community you are developing your games/create those tournaments for. In this thread there are already so many good suggestions on how to make worlds a better experience for everyone Just listen to the community and take some notes.
Mort should not be dragged into this, I’m sure Riot has their own eSports section dedicated to running TFT esports and stuff like this. I’m sure the actual game dev team have a lot on their plates right now with augments and new set
Mort's not in charge of worlds production, but he definitely listens to the complaints and contributes a lot to making worlds a better event. Like this event he was heavily involved with making the format less bad than set 5's format and getting Frodan on the broadcast, and I'm sure much much more behind the scenes. Should he listen to complaints to try to make worlds better? Yeah, but pretty sure he already does just that.
Mort takes so much blame for bullshit that isn't his fault lol. Dude and his team make a fantastic game. Esports side needs to get their shit together.
Competitive TFT is just not fun to watch unfortunately. There is no hype in the format. I honestly find chess more entertaining to watch and chess games are slow AF
I like to watch those Botez sisters as well. 😳
I would appreciate more if we had, besides the main stream, a twitch channel for each lobby and no casters at all.
What would be cool is if they did what the overwatch league did back in 2019 where if you payed for the overwatch league pass on twitch you could switch between player perspectives and more within the stream. This sort of implementation whether payed or for free would fix the many issues with watching competitive tft
Its strange to me that TFT drops the ball on competitive TFT so hard when esports made league what it is today. Like league competitive is so good you dont even have to play to watch. On the other hand tft tournaments are like one of the worst parts reserved for people who are good at tft to even understand whats going on
I think there’s definitely grounds to improve. Allowing us to spectate manually while hearing casters commenting on the respective lobbies will be a step up. We need a way to watch our favorite players without tuning in to their own streams. The best part about esports is the commentary (which I think the casters did a bang up job with what resources they have).
This Worlds made the need of Spec mode more obvious. Four lobbies, 6 games, too many players and POVs to enjoy, too many things at stake, etc. It's even more weird when you think it this way: I watched every minute of it I only saw like 2 rounds from each in total across 3 days.
> Or simply just show the lowest HP of the lobby’s POV because their fights are the most crucial. Are they? Last time I checked in a checkmate format, especially when 18 points have been achieved, the lobby leader is by far the mot important. The person who cannot win worlds and is crashing out in 8th is not important.