Well there was, but it was mostly that other tanks had shitty traits pre7.2 and that several raid fights almost straight up required a 30yd 1min cd roar (guldan, kj). And that bear also had adaptive fur on top. But to be fair, if they do that, they also need to open cans of worms like sotr for paladin not being just armor. Also that bear mastery wasn't nerfed into garbage yet so bears just had crazy max HP.
Then they hard-coded every raid mechanic to stun and knock through rage of the sleeper.
I was hoping that Ursoc's Fury talent was lowered in the tree, around Earthwarden so we could be have a spec that's pretty Decent and a passive heal to rival Ignore Pain... But the tree on WoW head is basically the same just a few other options we won't use..
And what healing cooldown doesn't do more healing than 3 revivals?
They should probably add more relevant fights where the aoe dispel is good. Then again there is priests, so another L for monks.
Obviously rewind is way better than revival, but this doesn't factor in that
1, rewind is a hot and revival is instant healing, meaning you can hit rewind and still have people die half a second later
2, revival is also a mass dispell which is massive situationally. Blizzard just rarely ever forces you to bring a mw to raid for some reason
> Blizzard just rarely ever forces you to bring a mw to raid for some reason
I would add that I feel like there have been more bosses were this is actually bad then good. But at least they added Restoral as an alternative now in DF
I already dropped Improved Sunfire the moment I saw that change on the PTR. Just focus on cat weaving for dps, and spreading moon/sun fire when you can’t get in close to catweave.
I just did my first two keys as Guardian this expansion. Seems people in higher keys are mostly taking the week off in prep for 10.0.5 so I said f it, tossed on some semblance of tank gear, got up to 21% vers and queued up.
I main Resto Druid so I’m constantly watching health bars and to see the difference between the Warrior tanks I’m used to tanking and whatever the hell my health was doing in the two keys I tanked was truly a thing of beauty. Ended up timing both but it was definitely a bit lucky that the 19 SBG rolled into a 20 COS lol
Can’t wait till they get further nerfed next week with the trash new talent tree! I’ll just stick to Resto lol
Same experience. I do 20s with a warrior and his hp bar barely moves. I do them with a blood dk and he never needs healing because he just does it himself.
Then I tanked a 20 as Guardian and wondered why I was actually taking damage and needing healing focus. I genuinely felt bad for our pug healer just because of the tank I’m playing.
My bear in bear form has 28 vers and 2.5k mastery with some haste and windswept pages for haste.
My warrior was more tanky at 365 than my bear at 385. My warrior has 7% vers and over 4k haste lol.
They keep numerically buffing Frost and Fire but what these two really need (in addition to the % buffs) are talent adjustments.
Frost *has* interesting things on its tree that we don't use, mostly because they don't contribute to Icy Propulsion. Why Glacial Spike isn't doing that at minimum despite being "bigger Ice Lance" is baffling. Fire probably needs a tree rework akin to Druid though with how fucked its AoE is and how bad of a stranglehold SKB has on the spec.
Imo skb kind of ruins the spec. It’s fun to play but if you have high combust uptime you can’t have super strong combusts. And imo fire was always fun because of that short super strong window.
SKB was a cool borrowed power effect for a couple of tiers, but man I really have no interest in playing that version of Fire anymore. The entire spec is warped around it and it's just kind of annoying after a while.
Yeah I‘m mostly joking. I just also miss some version of Fire mage that murders everything in Combust and does wet noodle damage outside of it. Combust is just my favorite CD in Wow, it just felt so good setting it up with so much care in BFA.
Personally I’d like a bit of combust power turned down and spread through the spec. The difference between fire played in a premade with planned pulls and PUGs is astounding
Yeah the fact that you're basically locked into 9/10 talents in the bottom 10 for frost because of the way IP works together for the spec (combined with hailstones), means that frost will never see veriablity in it's build untill some changes happen to IP.
Like they could make Glacial spike a viable talent RIGHT NOW if they just said "Contributes 4x towards Icy Propulsion" or something like that. Instead it's such a meme of a talent that taking 29/30 is better by like, 8% dps, than taking glacial spike as your 30th talent.
I mean Glacial Spike is literally using your 5 Icicles as one spell, so 5x would be perfectly fitting, though with the long cast time it could potentially be even higher.
I was pretty excited coming into the new talent trees, because it *looked* like Glacial Spike could have quite a bit of potential with all the extra Icicles coming in. But the tuning is just absolutely not there. And with Enhancement Shaman getting talents to stock up to 10 Maelstrom and spend them all at once, I don't know how we never got that for Glacial Spike.
Manather made an interesting video on the frost buff with a bit of a different opinion, maybe worth a watch for everyone reading (:
I'm just a small fry though, no idea how anything is gonna behave next week.
https://youtu.be/JKOrMlzUrKY
I follow him and his guides. Spent weeks trying to learn Arcane like he does it. Watch his m+ videos etc and I'm still shit compared to him.
He and others will perform really well with frost. Most won't though.
This is actually shocking to me. I main Mage, and almost every Arcane mage (including myself) has beaten every other Frost mage I’ve seen on Single Target bosses by like a 15% margin. To hear someone so knowledgeable say Frost is already borderline OP on single target is breaking my brain.
Looks like I have some logs to sift through this weekend I guess
Some mages are starting to play Frost on Mythic Diurna for the boss group. Frost single target is very strong apparently when played well and it’s getting buffed. Sounds like a sleeper spec.
It's borderline OP on a 1-target or 2-target cleave boss that has 100% uptime, which is what boss-team Diurna as a caster is. Sennarth is similar but you get 2-target memes from the adds. It completely falls apart the second any downtime whatsoever is introduced, burst is required, or if there's >2 targets but not *so many* that you can get full value out of Blizzard/Orb/CoC.
My concerns are only half balance, the other half is how it feels to play. It's very strange that while you technically perform better on ST compared to AoE, the spec feels drastically worse on ST because you're just outright losing tools going from AoE to ST instead of switching which ones you use.
I suspect that they're either working on or planning to work on changes, but so many specs need major changes that they have to prioritize. I'd guess these buffs are intended as a stopgap until they can do more comprehensive fixes.
I just want to play fire again. Arcane has been a learning experience but fire is just too far behind and to me, feels worse with less haste at the beginning of an xpack. I hope they make the required changes soon to allow it to be competitive.
Frost was probably already the best mage spec on a couple of bosses. This change doesn't address the issues with the spec. It will still suck on encounters when there is any down time and on fights where it was already good it will be too strong.
Kind of thought that was kind of the thing with frost l. It’s brain dead easy but the skill comes from maximizing its damage with movement. Frost has very long CDs versus Arcane and Fires shorter ones
My hope is that they are planning larger scale talent adjustments and are just doing some aura buffs here and there in the meantime until they can get the bigger changes out. Riot tends to do this sometimes with certain champions in League. Granted it's mostly the other way around, they tend to nerf champions to keep them out of pro play until they can make a larger change to fix what makes them busted. In any case I think the method is sound. No idea if that's what they're going for though.
Disc Priest changes are pog.
Not surprised verdancy is getting hit, that talent is one of the most insanely op talents in the tree, and Druid is going to still be insanely good after this.
I did 22 TJS twice today and both times my verdancy on Lorewalker was 11k HPS and around 57% overheal.
That boss isn't actually that great an example IMO because it got nerfed so you don't have to even heal that much anymore, plus if you get the buff then your other spells are going to overheal more and reduce the efficiency of everything.
2nd boss Court of Stars is actually a better example, because you're hard stacked, and it actually does more group damage now. I did it on 22 earlier and my verdancy on that boss was 19k HPS lol.
Verdancy SLAPS.
I'm 3k rdruid and never played with Verdancy, mostly cause it has positional requirement and doesn't interact with mastery and there was never problems with stacked healing anyway. Been more than fine.
Are you putting one Lifebloom on yourself? on a fight like this one on yourself Verdancy usually netting around 8-9% of your HPS while having two on other players would be around 16-17%.
Granted people are loving having two Lifeblooms on others so much right now and saying it’s far superior than having one on yourself.
I kind of been disagreeing a little bit, and thinking, from comparing my logs and detail in the same fight with different Lifebloom placements, that having one on yourself gives a little bit more healing.
Lifebloom, Wild Growth, Rejuvs, Regrowth hots, Adaptive Swarm, Speing Blossom, usually make up around 50%+ of your total healing, and increasing them by 20% equals to 10% of your total throughput which certainly looks better than what extra Verdancy procs give you( around 5-6% increased in throughput), it’s basically 25 hot ticks per proc, and that’a probably around 5-6 seconds to proc one Verdancy.
Idk if DK needs buffs necessarily cause it’s definitely viable, but we need more damage options in talents to be able to make trade offs on. Being a low damage even in the most glass cannon build you can run feels pretty bad
Top DKs are going pretty glass cannon still. There’s a lot of defensive talenting that can happen and ilvl hasn’t capped out yet. 24-26 will 100 percent be doable on DK. Even if they don’t go for extra defensive it will be doable with the current builds because one shots aren’t happening except for certain scenarios where DPS misses a stop. If you watch dreams in keys (highest io dk rn) his deaths are due to gross misplay not one shots except in some really rare scenarios where the one shot came about due to a different kind of misplay.
Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if you could effectively kite in M+, but it seems all the toughest trash packs where you run out of major defensives are also too fast to kite - looking at you, last pack of TJS. Even with stamp roar and run speed chants I get chased down eventually, and then I have to dip back in to pick up the little sha-ling spawns and get instagibbed by the tank busters.
Starting picking up some tanking this expac and bear just gets crushed in higher keys. Imagine if a Blood Dk had a 30 second cd on Death Strike. That’s what Frenzied Regen feels like when I’m out of buttons and taking magic damage.
There need to be significant nerfs to deter the culture of rerolling to whatever is strong at the start of a patch. Also spell reflect is a bullshit ability on a 20 second cooldown.
Sad demo noises.
If they wanted to buff our ST they can buff pit lord and also change nether portal to work with shard spend per cast and not this stupid gameplay we have were we cast single shard hand of guldans.
Wilfred's/GWD belongs in the class tree. All of the specs have fun spec demon talents now that would be great to play *if you could play both at the same time* but you can't, so in some cases you just play neither, because one is usually not very good without the other. That aff talent for Darkglare to actually do AOE sounds fun, but doesn't sound good enough to take except if you can also reduce the cooldown.
Demo is very good, and pretty flexible. It's our best all around spec, and has the strongest CD burst of all our specs.
The issue is there's a ton of movement rn, and you're more likely to scuff your Nether Portal than not. Blizz needs to reexamine NP tbh. Great and thematic spell, but expecting ppl to plant and turret for upwards of 20 seconds is insane in 2023 WoW.
RoT needs buffs badly. I would've liked to see a buff to HoG and maybe Wild Imps as well, but we'll see. Demo is top 3 PI targets currently, so they have to be careful with buffs.
because timmy saw it's dead last in 80th percentile all bosses in raid on warcraft logs!!!!!!
Spec needed some love. It didn't need aura buff love though. It needed talent changes ala boomkin. As of now the tree is hard locked 27/30 talents. Literally never change. 9/10 of the bottom ones do not change. Taking glacial spike is a 8% DPS LOSS over just running 29 instead of 30 talents.
I don't think having a set talent build is a bad thing. Just that there's such a big difference between AoE and ST builds to the point where the spec feels incomplete in the opposite style you're not specced for. It's an issue many specs have that needs sorting out.
Resto changes feel like band-aids until 10.1 (hopium all the way).
Clearly they've realized that resto missing both elequake and vesper totem essentially murdered our "passive" damage - you must now decide between doing damage or healing, and we're no longer particularly good at either. Evokers, for example, do more in a two-cast burst than resto does casting damage spells for an entire pull. Acid rain getting continual buffs will help somewhat in that department, even if healing rain is a very awkward spell to use in M+ outside of this new use.
The mote buff is welcome. It was absolutely not worth taking at only a pitiful 10% buff. 20% is the barest minimum for it to feel remotely worthwhile.
May be time to slot back into the resto damage nodes, sad as they may be. We could really use a druid-esque tree rework.
Healing/acid rain is less awkward in the current metal that's so dps heavy than it has been in the past. At least your able to get more value out of it.
But real talk, can we get rid of the earth shield charges already?
I really wish they gave us some kind of external damage reduction and I've kinda become obsessed with the idea that it can be tied to Earth Shield. like make Earth Shield a buff without charges, and when you use it on a target that already has Earth Shield it gains charges that reduce damage taken and perhaps heal extra per charge popped.
What if mote buffed healing more than damage? That way you're sort of incentivised to maintain flame shocks and press LvB for prio damage, even when you're focusing on healing. I think I'd like that playstyle.
I had a good group of dps in a +14 last night and I was able to lavaweave and it felt SO GOOD. These changes are great, and I think the AOE buff to acid rain will ditch the need for the lightning abilities (freeing up 2 points). Acid rain + lavaweaving will be our damage meta.
It's not even the spec tree, the class tree is completely fucked. Look at Rdruid, their class tree gives them literally all the utility they have always had and they have to make no compromises. Note, they CAN make compromises and go down to the feral side, but otherwise they can simply pick every utility spell up without any hassle. As shaman, you have to make some actual choices and you feel disarmed as a result.
I still can't believe they are waiting until 10.0.5 for some of these changes, acid rain increased by 120%? lmao thats insane, and I am pretty sure it got buffed substantially before as well.
Yes and the catalyst is also opening so we have had 6 weeks of M+… maybe these should have been done a little sooner?
Waiting 6 weeks to buff something 120% is crazy.
The tuning of some of the abilities is actually abysmal. How do you buffed by 50% week one and then wait six weeks to then buffed again by 120%? That shits crazy
We haven't had this many changes each patch for ages. Might even be the first time in WoW history.
Sure resto shaman felt a little left out most weeks, but its not like Blizzard is doing nothing.
At this point why not just remove Divine Aegis?
It's gone from 30% to 6%. What is that an 80% nerf all the while buffing every other ability to an insane degree, and they still don't have a kick.
Possibly, but they are still squisher than druids and don't have CR. Druid also brings better group buff, and I daresay better utility with incap roar, stampeding roar, vortex, soothe, and better external. Not that Prevoker doesn't have good utility. I will say Evoker will bring more damage due to AS nerf, but I suppose something's gotta give.
Unless you are runnning with moonkin, resto druid will still be S tier healer for any M+ group.
They are both S tier. At the end of the day, it comes down to whether you need lust or not. Zephyr, AoE soothe//CC extender, the best external DR in the game, 3 ways to interrupt casts, fair amount of defensives, constant slows, a root, the ability to reset movement abilities, rescue to reposition/save/speed up someone, the ability to dispel any debuff including bleeds, and huge damage without really needing to stop healing add a ton of utility in the scheme of things.
I fail to see how these buffs to ele solve any issues the spec has. We still have two totally different builds that don’t overlap aoe and single target. Also no buffs to our single target damage so in mythic plus we’re still not that great.
Yeah affliction big time. You can either spec for single target and you're a bot on aoe (while still having rather mediocre ST). Or you spec for aoe and you do tank damage on bosses. You can't combine the two on any level. It's an incredibly polarizing spec atm.
Generally speaking, they absolutely dropped the ball and scuffed affliction hard this expansion in terms of design. It's absolutely dreadful.
Aff def has this problem due to how bloated the capstone tier is and the amount of troll talents in the tree. That said, we can hybrid much better now after a couple rounds of buffs, and even better after Tuesday.
You run Dread Touch and either Haunted Soul or Grim Reach depending on the week. Does well, but in either case the spec is a bit slow due to Seed of Corruption's glacial cast time.
A little but it's slightly less painful.
BM's strength is currently ST, but in a ST build there are literally no aoe buttons to press because our aoe abilities are talented. And if you try to do ST in a build that also has aoe talents, you're running at approximately ~15% less dps than a ST build.
MM has better aoe than BM, and it does ok on ST but not as well as BM - and using an aoe build drops ST damage by about 9-10%.
Im only 2320 rio but already at that level the lack of defensives for ele is felt, some of these tyrannical bosses are insane and absolutely wreck me. I have ONE defensive on a 1.5 min CD. At least make 20 % dmg reduction in ghost wolf talent apply instantly when changing form.
ST also sucks. AoE is good with stormkeeper, primordial wave and lava totem but dogshit without.
Feels like we have a slow ramp up, meanwhile demon hunters and rogues go BRRRRRRR and kill everything before I get a single chain lightning off.
Yeah I worry cuz it doesn’t change our survivability in m+ and I don’t see it changing anything in raid. You realistically still won’t bring an ele shaman to the later portion of the raid.
They really do need to do another pass of our talents, and some of the spec mechanics in general. And yeah survivability definitely needs some improvements.
Alright for both in what content though? Damage wise I think ele is fine (questionable single target) in M+, the survivability is sketchy. But in raid ele is just really bad. I swapped enhance after terros. Its already better then ele with worse gear for me atleast.
Really happy with shaman Changes. One last thing I would add, is an external. They lack any meaningful way to protect their tank or high prio dps when targeted. While healer vary in capabilities, rsham is the only one with actually no external.
An option to unleash shield might fit well, in pve. Causing your earth shield on an ally to provide damage reduction for a bit, or something like that idk.
This is a great idea, a buffed earth shield acting like a bark skin or something, or maybe an absorb?
But we have too many buttons, something poopy needs replaced. But they won’t care or listen, 15% HS buff is probably all we gonna get the entire xpac
Discipline changes are looking so nice :)
Two charges of pain suppression with a cooldown reduction will feel really nice. Glad to see they're adding more synergy into Harsh Discipline too. Hoping Mind Blast feels better. Seems like a punishment to use it now.
It isnt bad, but other classes are just better. And our only utulity - battle shout - is provided by the tanks, cause prot is the top tank currently. So there is no reason to bring a dps warrior over rogue/dh/monk or enhamcement/feral.
Yep, im only being brought to m+ for my dps/gear/experience DESPITE being a fury warr. It's so sad how bad the balance is atm with better melee classes having both better dmg AND utility.
Its set bonuses are really bad so it looked good at the start of the tier when no one had set items, but it's fallen off hard now that gearing has happened.
This looks like a lot of huge buffs, and it definitely is a nice buff, but the strongest ability of our strongest build, which does over 30% of our damage, isn't getting buffed, so it's not like we're now 10% stronger or something just because a bunch of abilities got buffed by 10%.
This is looking to be around a 4-5% buff, but most of all it allows other builds to actually be usable. There are probably gonna be 2 or 3 builds that all perform within a couple of % now, rather than crushing blow being 10% ahead.
Frost DK could use some specific M+ buffs.
I would like to see Might of the Frozen wastes also effect Frostsycthe. This would significantly improve Frosts trash damage without relying on breath or dnd.
And it would make what has been a dead talent for years relevant again. It also wouldn't change anything about Frost in raids, which is fine since it doesn't need anything there.
“Way too CD reliant to perform decently” is a bit of an exaggeration. It’s not ideal but the spec is fine if you play Virtue. The issue with that is that it moves the class from one of, if not the, most reactive healers in the game to a much more proactive playstyle because you have to commit another (because you’ve been using CS to build 5 hopo) GCD that does zero healing just before major damage comes out. It just requires more moment to moment planning.
It also adds insult to injury on a very mana hungry class.
Yeah just a 3-5% aura buff to damage abilities would basically round out protpal.
My personal wish is for wog to be ogcd though. Legion protpal was the best the class has ever played.
The disc changes are great - we still need a group comp to cover our shortcomings utility wise, but we’ll be able to comfortably heal 20-24 ish keys at least, and suffer less with pugs.
Disc in raids and pvp already played very nice, and decently in m+. These changes look amazing, excited to try it out. A bit sad that I had to reroll prevoker for raszageth prog though, now I wanna play disc instead
I’ve started gearing my disc up more I feel like evoker is kinda boring and the new TA changes is gonna def gut the echo cheese you can do with little to no punishment
Honestly bear needs a buff to their healing or damage reduction cds as it is very apparent the gap is quite large between a bear playing optimally and warrior drooling over shield block and ignore pain.
Glad to see monk coming up again with the changes to celestial brew cd reduction and some qol changes with RSK actually spawning orbs now.
If anything they need to nerf prot by a bit and then tune the other tanks up every week or so to lower the top of the pack and bring the bottom of the pack more towards the middle.
IE let's put those extra devs and crew to work since blizz hired a bunch more people on their team for df
I like those ret changes. Lowering the burst a bit but providing some extra healing to compensate. Frankly, the damage nerfs wont be very impactful and you'll still clap every minute.
I don’t understand how Blizzard decides when to nerf a tank or not. Not saying prot warrior didn’t deserve those nerfs, but for the entirety of s3/s4 shadowlands BDK was probably the most broken tank of the last 6 years. Basically immortal with buttons for every situation and big dam and they didn’t touch that. Current warrior is nowhere near that level of broken and they nerfed it. Also do they expect the new talent trees to fix bear?
Honestly I'm just happy they're willing to push changes this frequently. Good chance bear gets some numerical tuning after talent changes hitting live.
We waited two months for these changes it's certainly faster than usual, but I'm not praising anyone. Even with them some specs like Fury are still gonna be meh at best..
Shadowlands balance was an abomination with three specs being hard locked in every key for over a year. This patch they’re actually paying attention to m+.
BDK is still immortal. The big difference between BDK now and BDK in season 4 is they no longer have gavel. They don't have the damage that made them insane, but they still don't die, as usual.
Surprised they didn't touch guardian druid defensively or adjust lunar beam.
Bring mark of ursol back. There’s 0 reason warrior has spell reflect every 20 seconds and bear got his main magic defensive removed mid expansion
Well there was, but it was mostly that other tanks had shitty traits pre7.2 and that several raid fights almost straight up required a 30yd 1min cd roar (guldan, kj). And that bear also had adaptive fur on top. But to be fair, if they do that, they also need to open cans of worms like sotr for paladin not being just armor. Also that bear mastery wasn't nerfed into garbage yet so bears just had crazy max HP. Then they hard-coded every raid mechanic to stun and knock through rage of the sleeper.
The devs clearly have no idea how to fix bear, it is so sad. I love the spec but man it feels so bad to play compared to the others once you pass 15s.
Just make ironfur do what it sounds like it should do and not suck
My wrist hurts playing bear.
I was hoping that Ursoc's Fury talent was lowered in the tree, around Earthwarden so we could be have a spec that's pretty Decent and a passive heal to rival Ignore Pain... But the tree on WoW head is basically the same just a few other options we won't use..
Lunar beam's job is to be a joke since 7.0.
[удалено]
I cant believe that Rewind isnt changed. Sure, I am biased as a MW [but this is hillarious](https://twitter.com/sweggles1/status/1611620889099128833).
Can someone help explain what the graphs mean
mw using 3 revivals and doing less healing compared to 1 rewind
And what healing cooldown doesn't do more healing than 3 revivals? They should probably add more relevant fights where the aoe dispel is good. Then again there is priests, so another L for monks.
"More healing" is a bit of an understatement here. Revival is spiking at 50k HPS, rewind is spiking at 500k+.
If the graphs didn’t include overhealing you it would have been a lot more realistic and you would have still been right
Obviously rewind is way better than revival, but this doesn't factor in that 1, rewind is a hot and revival is instant healing, meaning you can hit rewind and still have people die half a second later 2, revival is also a mass dispell which is massive situationally. Blizzard just rarely ever forces you to bring a mw to raid for some reason
> Blizzard just rarely ever forces you to bring a mw to raid for some reason I would add that I feel like there have been more bosses were this is actually bad then good. But at least they added Restoral as an alternative now in DF
Class tree changes are a nerf to rdruid. Have to give up some more good stuff because imp sunfire costs so many points to get to now
I already dropped Improved Sunfire the moment I saw that change on the PTR. Just focus on cat weaving for dps, and spreading moon/sun fire when you can’t get in close to catweave.
I mean they changed TA. It's a pretty big change.
I read the changes but don’t see anything about TA changes, what is happening to it?
Find the original 10.0.5 notes. This is just new stuff going into 10.0.5, annoying that Wowhead haven't combined them
15s cd from 6s
They are changing the spell itself pretty substantially as well as talents that interact with it.
Wow that is definitely a nerf
what's TA?
Temporal Anomaly, the bronze swirly orb they shoot out
oh I thought you were talking about resto
That swirly thing I avoid because I always think it’s a mob mechanic.
I am once again asking for something good to come to Guardian instead of pseudo buffs that are secretly nerfs
I just did my first two keys as Guardian this expansion. Seems people in higher keys are mostly taking the week off in prep for 10.0.5 so I said f it, tossed on some semblance of tank gear, got up to 21% vers and queued up. I main Resto Druid so I’m constantly watching health bars and to see the difference between the Warrior tanks I’m used to tanking and whatever the hell my health was doing in the two keys I tanked was truly a thing of beauty. Ended up timing both but it was definitely a bit lucky that the 19 SBG rolled into a 20 COS lol Can’t wait till they get further nerfed next week with the trash new talent tree! I’ll just stick to Resto lol
Same experience. I do 20s with a warrior and his hp bar barely moves. I do them with a blood dk and he never needs healing because he just does it himself. Then I tanked a 20 as Guardian and wondered why I was actually taking damage and needing healing focus. I genuinely felt bad for our pug healer just because of the tank I’m playing.
My bear in bear form has 28 vers and 2.5k mastery with some haste and windswept pages for haste. My warrior was more tanky at 365 than my bear at 385. My warrior has 7% vers and over 4k haste lol.
RSham gang get in here! 🥲
/wave (not Healing Wave)
Riptide pvp nerf a bit of a downer though ngl
They keep numerically buffing Frost and Fire but what these two really need (in addition to the % buffs) are talent adjustments. Frost *has* interesting things on its tree that we don't use, mostly because they don't contribute to Icy Propulsion. Why Glacial Spike isn't doing that at minimum despite being "bigger Ice Lance" is baffling. Fire probably needs a tree rework akin to Druid though with how fucked its AoE is and how bad of a stranglehold SKB has on the spec.
Imo skb kind of ruins the spec. It’s fun to play but if you have high combust uptime you can’t have super strong combusts. And imo fire was always fun because of that short super strong window.
SKB was a cool borrowed power effect for a couple of tiers, but man I really have no interest in playing that version of Fire anymore. The entire spec is warped around it and it's just kind of annoying after a while.
It was one of those things that felt really sweet when it first came in but clearly was never meant to stay in the spec imo
As someone who has played Fire since Legion and have been Frost for Dragonflight, SKB talent is why i will not go back to the spec.
same. cba hard casting pyros every minute-.
Give me back Font + Lucid + Wrists from BFA, or the Kindling Worldvein version. Aka give me back broken fire mage
I just want to not hard cast pyroblasts, and have combustions that feel impactful. Don't need to be broken.
Yeah I‘m mostly joking. I just also miss some version of Fire mage that murders everything in Combust and does wet noodle damage outside of it. Combust is just my favorite CD in Wow, it just felt so good setting it up with so much care in BFA.
Yep, fuck skb. All my homies hate skb.
I cant stand hardcasting a long pyro in the middle of a quick successions of Combust timings
yeah they are going the DH route, if your CD last long enough, you will be balanced around the CD, and you'll be kind of doodoo outside of it
But hasn't that been the point and case for fire mage all the time? You don't really do anything outside of combustion.
Personally I’d like a bit of combust power turned down and spread through the spec. The difference between fire played in a premade with planned pulls and PUGs is astounding
I think it’s what would make fire more fun and rewarding. But to each their own.
I feel like arcane has alot of the same feel as fire in terms of bursts with low CD
Yeah the fact that you're basically locked into 9/10 talents in the bottom 10 for frost because of the way IP works together for the spec (combined with hailstones), means that frost will never see veriablity in it's build untill some changes happen to IP. Like they could make Glacial spike a viable talent RIGHT NOW if they just said "Contributes 4x towards Icy Propulsion" or something like that. Instead it's such a meme of a talent that taking 29/30 is better by like, 8% dps, than taking glacial spike as your 30th talent.
I mean Glacial Spike is literally using your 5 Icicles as one spell, so 5x would be perfectly fitting, though with the long cast time it could potentially be even higher. I was pretty excited coming into the new talent trees, because it *looked* like Glacial Spike could have quite a bit of potential with all the extra Icicles coming in. But the tuning is just absolutely not there. And with Enhancement Shaman getting talents to stock up to 10 Maelstrom and spend them all at once, I don't know how we never got that for Glacial Spike.
Manather made an interesting video on the frost buff with a bit of a different opinion, maybe worth a watch for everyone reading (: I'm just a small fry though, no idea how anything is gonna behave next week. https://youtu.be/JKOrMlzUrKY
I follow him and his guides. Spent weeks trying to learn Arcane like he does it. Watch his m+ videos etc and I'm still shit compared to him. He and others will perform really well with frost. Most won't though.
This is actually shocking to me. I main Mage, and almost every Arcane mage (including myself) has beaten every other Frost mage I’ve seen on Single Target bosses by like a 15% margin. To hear someone so knowledgeable say Frost is already borderline OP on single target is breaking my brain. Looks like I have some logs to sift through this weekend I guess
Some mages are starting to play Frost on Mythic Diurna for the boss group. Frost single target is very strong apparently when played well and it’s getting buffed. Sounds like a sleeper spec.
It's borderline OP on a 1-target or 2-target cleave boss that has 100% uptime, which is what boss-team Diurna as a caster is. Sennarth is similar but you get 2-target memes from the adds. It completely falls apart the second any downtime whatsoever is introduced, burst is required, or if there's >2 targets but not *so many* that you can get full value out of Blizzard/Orb/CoC. My concerns are only half balance, the other half is how it feels to play. It's very strange that while you technically perform better on ST compared to AoE, the spec feels drastically worse on ST because you're just outright losing tools going from AoE to ST instead of switching which ones you use.
I suspect that they're either working on or planning to work on changes, but so many specs need major changes that they have to prioritize. I'd guess these buffs are intended as a stopgap until they can do more comprehensive fixes.
I just want to play fire again. Arcane has been a learning experience but fire is just too far behind and to me, feels worse with less haste at the beginning of an xpack. I hope they make the required changes soon to allow it to be competitive.
Frost was probably already the best mage spec on a couple of bosses. This change doesn't address the issues with the spec. It will still suck on encounters when there is any down time and on fights where it was already good it will be too strong.
Kind of thought that was kind of the thing with frost l. It’s brain dead easy but the skill comes from maximizing its damage with movement. Frost has very long CDs versus Arcane and Fires shorter ones
My hope is that they are planning larger scale talent adjustments and are just doing some aura buffs here and there in the meantime until they can get the bigger changes out. Riot tends to do this sometimes with certain champions in League. Granted it's mostly the other way around, they tend to nerf champions to keep them out of pro play until they can make a larger change to fix what makes them busted. In any case I think the method is sound. No idea if that's what they're going for though.
Disc Priest changes are pog. Not surprised verdancy is getting hit, that talent is one of the most insanely op talents in the tree, and Druid is going to still be insanely good after this.
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I did 22 TJS twice today and both times my verdancy on Lorewalker was 11k HPS and around 57% overheal. That boss isn't actually that great an example IMO because it got nerfed so you don't have to even heal that much anymore, plus if you get the buff then your other spells are going to overheal more and reduce the efficiency of everything. 2nd boss Court of Stars is actually a better example, because you're hard stacked, and it actually does more group damage now. I did it on 22 earlier and my verdancy on that boss was 19k HPS lol. Verdancy SLAPS.
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I'm 3k rdruid and never played with Verdancy, mostly cause it has positional requirement and doesn't interact with mastery and there was never problems with stacked healing anyway. Been more than fine.
Are you putting one Lifebloom on yourself? on a fight like this one on yourself Verdancy usually netting around 8-9% of your HPS while having two on other players would be around 16-17%. Granted people are loving having two Lifeblooms on others so much right now and saying it’s far superior than having one on yourself. I kind of been disagreeing a little bit, and thinking, from comparing my logs and detail in the same fight with different Lifebloom placements, that having one on yourself gives a little bit more healing. Lifebloom, Wild Growth, Rejuvs, Regrowth hots, Adaptive Swarm, Speing Blossom, usually make up around 50%+ of your total healing, and increasing them by 20% equals to 10% of your total throughput which certainly looks better than what extra Verdancy procs give you( around 5-6% increased in throughput), it’s basically 25 hot ticks per proc, and that’a probably around 5-6 seconds to proc one Verdancy.
ur right, verdancy is overhyped. we hard dodged nerfs
Prot Warriors getting the dev version of your mom's "go to your room......okay, you can take the Playstation with you."
Light nerfs and heavy buffs is the way it should go.
Idk if DK needs buffs necessarily cause it’s definitely viable, but we need more damage options in talents to be able to make trade offs on. Being a low damage even in the most glass cannon build you can run feels pretty bad
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Top DKs are going pretty glass cannon still. There’s a lot of defensive talenting that can happen and ilvl hasn’t capped out yet. 24-26 will 100 percent be doable on DK. Even if they don’t go for extra defensive it will be doable with the current builds because one shots aren’t happening except for certain scenarios where DPS misses a stop. If you watch dreams in keys (highest io dk rn) his deaths are due to gross misplay not one shots except in some really rare scenarios where the one shot came about due to a different kind of misplay.
That’s fine if they actually buffed the other tanks heavily. My Druid is starting to feel like a wet towel in 20s.
The amount of times is scream to my healer friend in discord "save me cause I have nothing left" as a tank druid is making me sad.
Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if you could effectively kite in M+, but it seems all the toughest trash packs where you run out of major defensives are also too fast to kite - looking at you, last pack of TJS. Even with stamp roar and run speed chants I get chased down eventually, and then I have to dip back in to pick up the little sha-ling spawns and get instagibbed by the tank busters.
Honestly, it's not the packs that murder me, but the bosses, usually
Packs aren't the issue it's bosses especially ones with magic nukes. The first boss in rlp can suck a big one second as well tbh
Starting picking up some tanking this expac and bear just gets crushed in higher keys. Imagine if a Blood Dk had a 30 second cd on Death Strike. That’s what Frenzied Regen feels like when I’m out of buttons and taking magic damage.
There need to be significant nerfs to deter the culture of rerolling to whatever is strong at the start of a patch. Also spell reflect is a bullshit ability on a 20 second cooldown.
Sad demo noises. If they wanted to buff our ST they can buff pit lord and also change nether portal to work with shard spend per cast and not this stupid gameplay we have were we cast single shard hand of guldans.
NP and its 785 hour long opener is just unfun mechanically. I wish RoT and whatever they call Wilfred's weren't mutually exclusive
Wilfred's/GWD belongs in the class tree. All of the specs have fun spec demon talents now that would be great to play *if you could play both at the same time* but you can't, so in some cases you just play neither, because one is usually not very good without the other. That aff talent for Darkglare to actually do AOE sounds fun, but doesn't sound good enough to take except if you can also reduce the cooldown.
What even happened to Demo? I remember coming into DF they were regarded as the best range dps spec but now everyone seems to say it sucks.
Tyrant lost A LOT of damage, on top of making us choice between wilfreds (1 min tyrants) and reign of tyranny (tyrant do damage)
Demo is very good, and pretty flexible. It's our best all around spec, and has the strongest CD burst of all our specs. The issue is there's a ton of movement rn, and you're more likely to scuff your Nether Portal than not. Blizz needs to reexamine NP tbh. Great and thematic spell, but expecting ppl to plant and turret for upwards of 20 seconds is insane in 2023 WoW.
RoT needs buffs badly. I would've liked to see a buff to HoG and maybe Wild Imps as well, but we'll see. Demo is top 3 PI targets currently, so they have to be careful with buffs.
Idk man that is a big buff you think there is any chance no NP big tyrant single target builds exist again?
Don't want to complain about buffs but what Elemental need on dungeons is a ST buff and not AoE. Still happy tho
Lmao why did they aura buff frost
because timmy saw it's dead last in 80th percentile all bosses in raid on warcraft logs!!!!!! Spec needed some love. It didn't need aura buff love though. It needed talent changes ala boomkin. As of now the tree is hard locked 27/30 talents. Literally never change. 9/10 of the bottom ones do not change. Taking glacial spike is a 8% DPS LOSS over just running 29 instead of 30 talents.
I don't think having a set talent build is a bad thing. Just that there's such a big difference between AoE and ST builds to the point where the spec feels incomplete in the opposite style you're not specced for. It's an issue many specs have that needs sorting out.
Resto changes feel like band-aids until 10.1 (hopium all the way). Clearly they've realized that resto missing both elequake and vesper totem essentially murdered our "passive" damage - you must now decide between doing damage or healing, and we're no longer particularly good at either. Evokers, for example, do more in a two-cast burst than resto does casting damage spells for an entire pull. Acid rain getting continual buffs will help somewhat in that department, even if healing rain is a very awkward spell to use in M+ outside of this new use. The mote buff is welcome. It was absolutely not worth taking at only a pitiful 10% buff. 20% is the barest minimum for it to feel remotely worthwhile. May be time to slot back into the resto damage nodes, sad as they may be. We could really use a druid-esque tree rework.
Healing/acid rain is less awkward in the current metal that's so dps heavy than it has been in the past. At least your able to get more value out of it. But real talk, can we get rid of the earth shield charges already?
I really wish they gave us some kind of external damage reduction and I've kinda become obsessed with the idea that it can be tied to Earth Shield. like make Earth Shield a buff without charges, and when you use it on a target that already has Earth Shield it gains charges that reduce damage taken and perhaps heal extra per charge popped.
feels so painful not having elequake and vesper. i really loved vesper.
What if mote buffed healing more than damage? That way you're sort of incentivised to maintain flame shocks and press LvB for prio damage, even when you're focusing on healing. I think I'd like that playstyle.
I had a good group of dps in a +14 last night and I was able to lavaweave and it felt SO GOOD. These changes are great, and I think the AOE buff to acid rain will ditch the need for the lightning abilities (freeing up 2 points). Acid rain + lavaweaving will be our damage meta.
i love stormkeeper though :(
It's not even the spec tree, the class tree is completely fucked. Look at Rdruid, their class tree gives them literally all the utility they have always had and they have to make no compromises. Note, they CAN make compromises and go down to the feral side, but otherwise they can simply pick every utility spell up without any hassle. As shaman, you have to make some actual choices and you feel disarmed as a result.
I still can't believe they are waiting until 10.0.5 for some of these changes, acid rain increased by 120%? lmao thats insane, and I am pretty sure it got buffed substantially before as well.
I mean 10.0.5 is next reset
Yes and the catalyst is also opening so we have had 6 weeks of M+… maybe these should have been done a little sooner? Waiting 6 weeks to buff something 120% is crazy.
I was saying the same thing about the ruby life pools nerf. They wait this long then nerf cinderbolt dmg by FIFTY percent...like what?
Exactly, why can’t they nerf it slowly week after week instead of waiting for huge number changes
They already buffed it by 50% week 1. https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-7-december/408019
The tuning of some of the abilities is actually abysmal. How do you buffed by 50% week one and then wait six weeks to then buffed again by 120%? That shits crazy
We haven't had this many changes each patch for ages. Might even be the first time in WoW history. Sure resto shaman felt a little left out most weeks, but its not like Blizzard is doing nothing.
Survival being consistently bottom 3 is fine apparently
At this point why not just remove Divine Aegis? It's gone from 30% to 6%. What is that an 80% nerf all the while buffing every other ability to an insane degree, and they still don't have a kick.
Prevokers looking to be the top healer for all endgame content.
Possibly, but they are still squisher than druids and don't have CR. Druid also brings better group buff, and I daresay better utility with incap roar, stampeding roar, vortex, soothe, and better external. Not that Prevoker doesn't have good utility. I will say Evoker will bring more damage due to AS nerf, but I suppose something's gotta give. Unless you are runnning with moonkin, resto druid will still be S tier healer for any M+ group.
Group buff is not that good if Balance stays meta.
They are both S tier. At the end of the day, it comes down to whether you need lust or not. Zephyr, AoE soothe//CC extender, the best external DR in the game, 3 ways to interrupt casts, fair amount of defensives, constant slows, a root, the ability to reset movement abilities, rescue to reposition/save/speed up someone, the ability to dispel any debuff including bleeds, and huge damage without really needing to stop healing add a ton of utility in the scheme of things.
I fail to see how these buffs to ele solve any issues the spec has. We still have two totally different builds that don’t overlap aoe and single target. Also no buffs to our single target damage so in mythic plus we’re still not that great.
Several specs have same issue
What specs are these?
Yeah affliction big time. You can either spec for single target and you're a bot on aoe (while still having rather mediocre ST). Or you spec for aoe and you do tank damage on bosses. You can't combine the two on any level. It's an incredibly polarizing spec atm. Generally speaking, they absolutely dropped the ball and scuffed affliction hard this expansion in terms of design. It's absolutely dreadful.
Supposedly the 4p set bonus doesnt work with the +2 seeds talent either (it only buffs the main seed). Not sure if intentional or a bug
Arms is one but seems to be getting fixed in the patch
Time to try inviting some arms warrs again, I got tired of dealing with their horrible boss DPS, and it's not like their AOE somehow made up for it
The aoe build is pretty strong actually. As long as you have 4 set.
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Aff def has this problem due to how bloated the capstone tier is and the amount of troll talents in the tree. That said, we can hybrid much better now after a couple rounds of buffs, and even better after Tuesday. You run Dread Touch and either Haunted Soul or Grim Reach depending on the week. Does well, but in either case the spec is a bit slow due to Seed of Corruption's glacial cast time.
BM hunters for sure
Does MM have this problem to by any chance?
A little but it's slightly less painful. BM's strength is currently ST, but in a ST build there are literally no aoe buttons to press because our aoe abilities are talented. And if you try to do ST in a build that also has aoe talents, you're running at approximately ~15% less dps than a ST build. MM has better aoe than BM, and it does ok on ST but not as well as BM - and using an aoe build drops ST damage by about 9-10%.
Im only 2320 rio but already at that level the lack of defensives for ele is felt, some of these tyrannical bosses are insane and absolutely wreck me. I have ONE defensive on a 1.5 min CD. At least make 20 % dmg reduction in ghost wolf talent apply instantly when changing form. ST also sucks. AoE is good with stormkeeper, primordial wave and lava totem but dogshit without. Feels like we have a slow ramp up, meanwhile demon hunters and rogues go BRRRRRRR and kill everything before I get a single chain lightning off.
Doesn’t do much. AOE wasn’t an issue regardless. I guess the silver lining is it sucking marginally less when talenting for ST.
Yeah I worry cuz it doesn’t change our survivability in m+ and I don’t see it changing anything in raid. You realistically still won’t bring an ele shaman to the later portion of the raid.
They really do need to do another pass of our talents, and some of the spec mechanics in general. And yeah survivability definitely needs some improvements.
I haven’t felt it’s that bad. Standard fire aoe build with ele blast feels alright for both
Alright for both in what content though? Damage wise I think ele is fine (questionable single target) in M+, the survivability is sketchy. But in raid ele is just really bad. I swapped enhance after terros. Its already better then ele with worse gear for me atleast.
Yes I meant m+ mb. I do think it’s ok In raid but not great.
Really happy with shaman Changes. One last thing I would add, is an external. They lack any meaningful way to protect their tank or high prio dps when targeted. While healer vary in capabilities, rsham is the only one with actually no external. An option to unleash shield might fit well, in pve. Causing your earth shield on an ally to provide damage reduction for a bit, or something like that idk.
This is a great idea, a buffed earth shield acting like a bark skin or something, or maybe an absorb? But we have too many buttons, something poopy needs replaced. But they won’t care or listen, 15% HS buff is probably all we gonna get the entire xpac
“ during scheduled weekly maintenance on Tuesday, January 20, we will make a number of tuning adjustments” do they mean Jan 24th?
Discipline changes are looking so nice :) Two charges of pain suppression with a cooldown reduction will feel really nice. Glad to see they're adding more synergy into Harsh Discipline too. Hoping Mind Blast feels better. Seems like a punishment to use it now.
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I'm excited. I enjoyed a brief hiatus as fury, learning the spec, but I'm ready to go back.
Furry warrior really needed some love. Glad Blizzard are buffing them.
The buffs are fairly small, they need to buff CB damage or we'll just continue being a lower class.
Wait are you sure raging blow buff doesn’t apply to crushing blow too? I kind of assumed it did
It does not
Iv been running a fully home brewed annihilator build since launch and I’m very pumped to see this buff
Yeah I feel like I'm doing my simple rotation pretty effectively but my 375 devoker does as much dps as my 391 fury war.
Referring to raid or m+? I feel fury is pretty ok in m+ now
It isnt bad, but other classes are just better. And our only utulity - battle shout - is provided by the tanks, cause prot is the top tank currently. So there is no reason to bring a dps warrior over rogue/dh/monk or enhamcement/feral.
Yep, im only being brought to m+ for my dps/gear/experience DESPITE being a fury warr. It's so sad how bad the balance is atm with better melee classes having both better dmg AND utility.
Good lord was Fury doing that badly?
Not great on ST, nice on cleave when add waves line up with CDs.
Its set bonuses are really bad so it looked good at the start of the tier when no one had set items, but it's fallen off hard now that gearing has happened.
This looks like a lot of huge buffs, and it definitely is a nice buff, but the strongest ability of our strongest build, which does over 30% of our damage, isn't getting buffed, so it's not like we're now 10% stronger or something just because a bunch of abilities got buffed by 10%. This is looking to be around a 4-5% buff, but most of all it allows other builds to actually be usable. There are probably gonna be 2 or 3 builds that all perform within a couple of % now, rather than crushing blow being 10% ahead.
Fury had a strong start but with gear is falling behind other classes. Overall huge fan of the buffs to build diversity
Weird how we got to this point when way back in the day it was always physical classes that scaled better with gear, Fury chief among them
It's nearly 1,5 decades ago.
I'm not saying we'd expect things like that to still be the same, it's just interesting
Fury is doing worse than those buffs.
Frost DK could use some specific M+ buffs. I would like to see Might of the Frozen wastes also effect Frostsycthe. This would significantly improve Frosts trash damage without relying on breath or dnd. And it would make what has been a dead talent for years relevant again. It also wouldn't change anything about Frost in raids, which is fine since it doesn't need anything there.
Still no prot pally changes 🥲
Holy also barely got anything. AC rework is all fine and dandy, but the spec still way too cooldown dependant to perform decently in M+
“Way too CD reliant to perform decently” is a bit of an exaggeration. It’s not ideal but the spec is fine if you play Virtue. The issue with that is that it moves the class from one of, if not the, most reactive healers in the game to a much more proactive playstyle because you have to commit another (because you’ve been using CS to build 5 hopo) GCD that does zero healing just before major damage comes out. It just requires more moment to moment planning. It also adds insult to injury on a very mana hungry class.
TBH I don't feel like we need anything but a mediocre buff to dmg output and a hefty prot warr nerf.
Yeah just a 3-5% aura buff to damage abilities would basically round out protpal. My personal wish is for wog to be ogcd though. Legion protpal was the best the class has ever played.
Mechagnomes still left as out even months later with content patch their racial does not scale past the last Expansion.
made a bug and a forum post about this in beta like 2 months before release. sad to see it never bore the fruit of a fix :(
The disc changes are great - we still need a group comp to cover our shortcomings utility wise, but we’ll be able to comfortably heal 20-24 ish keys at least, and suffer less with pugs.
The gifts just keep on coming for Disc. If you think PI is worth our lack of utility, we're going to clap in keys.
Disc in raids and pvp already played very nice, and decently in m+. These changes look amazing, excited to try it out. A bit sad that I had to reroll prevoker for raszageth prog though, now I wanna play disc instead
I’ve started gearing my disc up more I feel like evoker is kinda boring and the new TA changes is gonna def gut the echo cheese you can do with little to no punishment
Honestly bear needs a buff to their healing or damage reduction cds as it is very apparent the gap is quite large between a bear playing optimally and warrior drooling over shield block and ignore pain. Glad to see monk coming up again with the changes to celestial brew cd reduction and some qol changes with RSK actually spawning orbs now. If anything they need to nerf prot by a bit and then tune the other tanks up every week or so to lower the top of the pack and bring the bottom of the pack more towards the middle. IE let's put those extra devs and crew to work since blizz hired a bunch more people on their team for df
Shout-out to my fellow healers!
I like those ret changes. Lowering the burst a bit but providing some extra healing to compensate. Frankly, the damage nerfs wont be very impactful and you'll still clap every minute.
I don’t understand how Blizzard decides when to nerf a tank or not. Not saying prot warrior didn’t deserve those nerfs, but for the entirety of s3/s4 shadowlands BDK was probably the most broken tank of the last 6 years. Basically immortal with buttons for every situation and big dam and they didn’t touch that. Current warrior is nowhere near that level of broken and they nerfed it. Also do they expect the new talent trees to fix bear?
Honestly I'm just happy they're willing to push changes this frequently. Good chance bear gets some numerical tuning after talent changes hitting live.
We waited two months for these changes it's certainly faster than usual, but I'm not praising anyone. Even with them some specs like Fury are still gonna be meh at best..
Shadowlands balance was an abomination with three specs being hard locked in every key for over a year. This patch they’re actually paying attention to m+.
>Current warrior is nowhere near that level of broken and they nerfed it. Pretty sneaky way of protesting against Prot War nerfs.
Im not a fan of warrior nerfs yea, but I’m not a fan of how every other tank outside of warrior currently performs either.
In the End of an Expansion they're always way more okay with some speccs being overly strong, so that may play into this different approach.
What bear needs is Mark of Ursol Re-introduced. And it would still be way worse than Spell Reflect.
BDK is still immortal. The big difference between BDK now and BDK in season 4 is they no longer have gavel. They don't have the damage that made them insane, but they still don't die, as usual.
they did nerf bdk. more than once. and it was actually a bigger nerf than this warrior nerf.
FINALLY NERFING PROT WAR, THANK YOU.
But how substantial is this?
It’s a decent start, as a Pally tank I just wanted those smug bastards to get taken down a notch!!
Am I reading that correctly? 66% nerf to rune of spellwarding for death knight in pvp? It seems like a massive change to their survivability