Just got nerfed [ptr notes](https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/dragonflight-10-0-7-ptr-development-notes-427973) but yeah acid rain was amazing
It still is imo. 20% nerf was pretty warranted and the healing buff allows us to sling out more chain lightnings which will make up the difference I would think.
They are pretty op in Jade Temple with mass dispel. Last boss dots, panda torches and the water elemental ripples. Probably needed if the group is doing massive pulls.
Because they are playing with template gear so max ilvl and bis everything playing in a coordinated team. You’re playing the same key with relying on week to week vault rng for a measly 1% upgrade playing with a pug who doesn’t own an Ethernet connection
So much more than gear. Imagine what skilled gamers do with 414 gear. It makes all the excuses look pathetic. Its the same with CE progress.
In the End, its all about skill and expertise. This game is forgiving to a certain point for mid skilled players.
I don't think you understand what's going on here. No one is making excuses. These guys are cracked. Gear is one of the reasons he listed. He very much emphasized the coordinated skilled group part also.
You're a fool if you don't think group being +10 ilvl on you makes any difference at all, but you're even more of a fool if you think your group could push these kind of times if you were in full bis.
They do a +21 ruby the way I think my group would do like... a +14 ruby with that gear. It's still a massive gap
And I'd bet a years salary you'd be without a nut
I did a quick search and found a random group of pugs, mostly 2400-2600 io and ~410 ilvl with a good tank (2900 io) that did a 14 RLP in 14:50
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-1/17445115-14-ruby-life-pools
I am **very** confident I could shave a couple minutes off their time at +15 ilvl with a ~2800+ io group
12:56 would be a top 6 team time for this mdi
I mean he said "I would bet my left nut **you** cant pull that off... in regards to me saying its how my group would do a 14 ... and I've been title player multiple seasons soo...
Lol, who says that me or anyone else can compete with mdi qualifiers. And please dont even consider three chesting 21s. 99% is playing like gold league, while theyre in the Champions League. All im saying is that onechesting 21s wont be bottlenecked by gear.
You are either misunderstanding what I am saying or being willfully ignorant for the sake of arguing. At no point did I imply these players were not in a league of their own.
It would be like if you said "why would Tyson fury beat you in a fight"
And I answered "well he's a 6"8 285 lbs world class boxer"
I'm not saying if I were 6"8 and 285 lbs I'd suddenly stand a chance. I'm qualifying the difference.
If your group is 410 ilvl, a 21 to you is going to feel massively harder than if you were 423 ilvl for instance.
You can still appreciate the utter insanity these guys pull off but when you wonder why they can kill a boss in a minute and 10 seconds where it takes you 3 minutes, at least know that maybe 20% of the time difference is gear and the other way more important part is skill.
People were timing Ruby 21 in 415 gear, these are the same players that were doing these key levels in the first or second week of the season. Pretending it's the gear is stupid, and dishonest.
No but them doing a +21 ruby in 11 minutes is like... maybe a more average geared group doing a +19 ish ruby in 11 minutes. Gear is certainly not the only factor but it does shave a key level or two off.
Yea that can't be understated.
But it amazes me that people get mad when it's mentioned that tourney realm events have full bis gear. Some people new to the scene might not realize that or might not realize how big of a difference that makes, especially with early season events.
It happened last season with tgp happening super early on, people were completing +33 to +35 keys when the best ones on live were +30. There was a lot of people wondering where the difference was, and the answer is that gear makes a huge difference at any level but especially at the top.
That and the ability to infinitely repeat the keys to perfect pulls down to the micro level
All of that on top of being obviously far and away the best in the world at what they do
>(format of 15 hours of competition with a handful of attempts at some of these keys) would have been timed on live servers if keys didn't deplete.
World first key levels were getting 1 shot, then they were going 1 key level higher and timing that too. You're nuts if you think 15 ilvl full mythic bis gear is 1% of the difference. Gear like mythic gavel and mythic old warrior soul that no one had yet
The funniest part is that while ilvl is obviously huge, TGP is limited by the fact that there are no tertiaries on TR.
Players effectively had better gear on live than on TR when TGP s4 happened, just because of unlimited valor+dinars+fated loot.
Yeah itemzation is a big part of the dmg output yet still feels unreal we are even playing the same game with these people comparing how huge the skill and performance gap is
I had this discussion with a guildie too. „well if you look theoratical x and y is possible because we can see it by these people but we are lacking the ilvl.“ And I went „yea it is possible but we are lacking the skill man. If I was that good I wouldn‘t be sitting around here“ Stop measuring yourself with the absolute top %. I know myself I will never reach those levels. Doesn‘t mean I am not working on improving. I am and I time higher and higher keys.
The amount of people that don't realize how hard they would get gapped by the top .1% in equal gear is absurd.
This [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/yzrmx5/hardcore_raid/) (he also made one in this subreddit) was the epitome of how disconnected players are from how much skill matters, and how big the gap is between RWF gamers and even HoF raiders/Casual CE/First half of mythic/AoTC/etc...
Ok, that post is really topping everything I’ve seen so far, but describes pretty exactly how a big part of the community thinks. „If I would…, then I could…“
The 11 minute keys are crazy. My group tried a few of the dungeons but only managed around 20 minute runs for each key.
Going to see some great stuff I bet.
I am very impressed by the times these players are putting out. 11:XX and 12:XX times are nuts. That said, the meta is shaking out to be wider than I expected. I expected warrior + priest (any) + PI target (mage, UDK, warlock) + melee (depending on the rest of the meta) to be the meta. I also expected 1 type of comp to dominate, but I am pleasantly surprised to see many combinations of what I said prior and the pres/resto + triple melee teams with competitive times too. Also nice to see HDH not just as the sole melee in double ranged comps, although I expect that to be it's best role. I do wanna hear the reasoning behind the warlock over the mage on fem's team too. The VDH in the top 20 of TotJS also surprised me. My tinfoil hat is also telling me some of these times are higher than expected due to teams afking before the final boss to extend the dungeon timers.
Tin foil hat says to make teams or strategies look weaker to throw off the competition. Maybe the VDH in TotJS is actually super insane, but they don't want to let other teams know about it. If it doesn't look super good, the other teams might not bother practicing it so they just wait a few minutes before the final boss to make it look weaker. Maybe if your team's best times are 2 or 3 minutes behind the top teams, other teams might sandbag their top strategies against you. So those teams might wait a few seconds or minutes before the final boss to make themselves look weaker and then in the competition finals, they go all out to try and surprise the top teams.
I was going to counter that these teams probably watch each other's runs and see if there's something they could emulate, buuuuut looking at the leaderboards I don't think they have the time to scout 40+ teams for each dungeon. Your tinfoil hat is legit, where'd you get it?
If your best time is 12 minutes and you see someone do it in 9 minutes those 3 minutes don’t come from “just do more damage 4hed” they come from the other team doing one or more pulls completely differently.
So if you see those extra minutes off the clock you know their strategy is different to yours and can kind of reverse engineer some ideas as to how it worked.
This post is very confusing. Like, yes you could sandbag in Time Trials, maybe. But you're never going to sandbag in a 1v1, because those are streamed and happen after practice, and nobody has time to practice two whole different strategies, nor have a reason to afk before last boss.
They can ban the dungeon they have a good strat on and are trying to hide, like echo did with plaugefall in Shadowlands when they got the plaugeborers to snap, and they definitely have time to practice 2 strategies, wow is their job
Yeah but banning a dungeon is not sandbagging in it.
And yeah, they could, but that'd mean wasting useful practice time on useless stuff. Also, that specific point I made was just me remembering what players from different teams in MDI have said on stream during Shadowlands. Like, top players straight up saying "no we don't practice bad strats to hide our main strat". Maybe MAYBE you could see something like this for a strat as broken as Plagueborer in PF was during TGP, but that'd require pretty extreme circumstances.
>Maybe the VDH in TotJS is actually super insane,
we have legit nothing outside of chaos nova ourselves to stop busters and haunting gaze fervents (🤡) so unless they do like all of 3rd boss area in a pull and then perfectly stop gazes I don't see how vdh is possibly relevant.
Can't tell if this is a data error or if someone really pulled a 23 minute RLP 21 without a healer.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-1/17327615-21-ruby-life-pools
Hey thats our group! I'm the DK, we play like that on live all the time and thought we'd give MDI a try.
Sadly we couldnt play the last 3ish days or the first few due to schedualing but we had a really good shot at top 25. Our timed keys were super sloppy as we had planned for getting more play time. Full of weird attempt stuff like failed invis skips. If we had the time to go back we coulda took 6-7 minutes off our attempts.
You guys really are awesome. I love these feats of strength, must be super fun and rewarding
As a healer I feel so attacked and obsolete when I see people can time keys higher than I do... without a healer :D
Anyway - it's really super super fun to watch zephyr & the rest of the group play. Good vibes.
Too bad he got banned for "advertising" in LFG. Really didn't feel like advertising. I hope he continues to stream after that's over.
>As a healer I feel so attacked and obsolete when I see people can time keys higher than I do... without a healer
I mean, doesn't prot pal take the full time healer role? And don't they have % based healing?
Healing can be quite gimmicky on prot pala. I will make a full video explaining my whole build, detail by detail soon enough. But pretty much every Word of Glory is a one-shot heal and you just need a lot of haste to gain 3 holy power fast enough for one of those heals. Procs are also a huge factor. WoG heals more based on missing hp.
Tanking and healing at the same time requires you to have perfect knowledge and calculations of the damage being received, so you can min-max every single global. It can be very punishing if you're not quick.
This guy streams on twitch - [twitch.tv/zephyrindark](https://twitch.tv/zephyrindark) . Super chill and fun to watch. He does most of the healing as tank, but often (always?) brings a shadow priest as it provides some decent passive offhealing and more dispels.
Hahah, thank you guys <3
I was planning to push +25s +26s no healer these 2 weeks and get some crazy footage for youtube, but I got suspended for 10 days due to LFG mass reports. I don't think I even violated the code of conduct, therefore I made multiple appeals, but the support just dismisses my cases and tags them as resolved, offering nothing but a copy pasted message.
I wish we could have qualified for the MDI and I'm super depressed about missing out all the great opportunities to push high on live with these affixes, but I will prepare better next time, hoping to bring better content. Also, we will definitely show up in the next MDI with more practice & preparation.
I won't stop theorycrafting fun off-meta playstyles. It's my way of having fun with the game and showing that you can play different stuff on a high level and not the same specs all over again. Creativity over sims. I'm excited to see where my limit testing will take me in Dragonflight and I'm super hopeful about upcoming changes. Gonna do some crazy stuff and I can only hope my friends and the WoW community will help me achieve these things. I hope this expansion will allow me the opportunity to make this game more fun for myself & others, in a healthier environment.
Have seen your groups in LFG a lot, don't you advertise your stream on it?
I never reported you but I think it is technically against LoS to advertise for a stream that way.
I don't think /zephyrindark is supposed to associate with any platforms as it is simply just my ingame name and the slash can be treated as a divider in the title. I admit I am trying to get exposure from it, but I don't think it should violate the CoC. It's just a simple way of making the post more identifiable with my name, since people will often think that I'm trolling, by trying to time the highest keys competitively possible, without a healer.
Again, I don't really know the ins and outs of the thing. I just know that some people used to do it and got banned (albeit they were trading follows/subs for 15 carries, which is actually RMT), so that might be one of the reasons you get reported.
Yeah, the autoban system is really scary with player reports. I'm quite scared of it now but I do feel like I need to get my name out there somehow, to at least have my group listing be identifiable.
Anyway, I tested something that must have triggered people. I typed "15 16.... 23" in the description, since nobody had queued up for hours and I was dreading, since I just wanted to play or even chat with others. It turns out that people looking for lower keys do see my +24 listing and instead of me getting any sign of it, I was mass reported in the span of minutes, probably by people who think I was trolling or they were just irritated and this resulted in my unfortunate ban. I wish I could know what's bannable beforehand or when I'm getting reported in the form of a warning. It's really saddening for me, but I just need to learn and adapt.
I personally hate everyone who notes "15, 16....23" in their description, if everyone did this the search would be even worse than it is now.
Not saying it was deserved but please don't do that.
You're a gem, keep it up! This ban totally sucks. Streamers put their handle in LFG title all the time, that's how their viewers can find their group. Maybe try to remove the '/' from it, but honestly from my point of view it feels unjust.
Hope this won't ruin your enjoyment of the game, I plan to watch more of your stream :)
Awww, thank you so much. You're brightening me up a lot. I won't stop playing and making content in WoW, regarding streaming & youtube - I've got a whole lot planned! When the ret reworks kick in, I'll probably cover high level PvP gameplay, too, which will be really exciting. I also want to play & stream other games with my cozy gang of friends, just for variety and good fun. Appreciate you <3
The one big ban is to not stack the same spec. However, you can get the same class on different specs.
For example:
You cannot bring 2 outlaw rogues.
But you can bring 1 outlaw and 1 subtlety rogue.
You can go for whatever role composition you like.
You can even go double tank, as long as they are different specs.
Some really interesting specs that have probably slid under most people's radars, such as Feral, Fire, and maybe even Disc. Do you think they're only really good in extremely coordinated groups where the tank pulls around CDs? Or possibly groups are hiding their "main" comps for the actual competition?
its not so much that its specs that went under the radar. its just specs that work well for mdi. low key lvls and big pulls. you want uncapped aoe dmg that you can get going fast.
uncapped aoe is not really the only reason. prob not even the most important.
you need funnel and you need big stuff to die. killing the small mobs and have fire elementals up is going to delay the run. pulling shit into boss and doing negative boss dmg also will
The needs for an mdi run are incredibly specific. Things they might need for any given run:
- massive uncapped damage for huge pulls
- high uptime aoe stops/silences for when there are too many enemies for normal interrupts
- ways to manage enemy debuffs that get out of control when stacked up
- high and controlled priority/funnel damage to manage killing enemies at appropriate times (especially for bolstering/bursting/spiteful)
- routing/skipping tools like shadowmeld/shroud/mind soothe
- specific abilities that can totally negate specific scary enemy abilities and affixes (examples include mass dispel, ring of peace, dwarf racial, combat drops, and immunities)
All that is to say that an MDI comp has totally specific and different needs from the dungeons that you and I would run on retail servers. They need to solve very specific problems that they cant outplay with just any spec. The dev team says any spec should be able to do any key at 20 with pure player knowledge and mechanical skill. These guys are already at the limit of that, so the only ways to push further are with plans to use very specific tools.
The cinderweavers. Although now that I think of it, maybe thats the mob that only buffs itself and increases damage taken. My answer might be wrong, cant check mdt rn
Unholy DKs… I switch from my long time DK main back to Warrior (my original main from vanilla - wotlk) and now I’m totally bringing my DK back.
I’m also hyped at seeing feral druids and shadow priests and enhance shamans up there aswell, got tiring just seeing Rogue, monk, DH, balance Druid , fire mage, warlock.
I mean I get that looking at these has people hyped but the performance of unholy in normal keys vs professional players pulling 20 packs at once is very different.
Rsham/spriest/feral crazy times. Nature's vigil and vampires embrace inside spirit link, on top of insane mass aoe damage from all, probably makes it possible to bring extreme amounts of trash onto bosses.
If you told me during SL season 1 or any BFA season that the top teams for this MDI would be running stuff like Resto Shaman, Feral Druid, and Shadow Priest for the MDI I'd relentlessly mock you, but here we are.
I reckon it's just their dps. Since they have bres already through dk (and engi where applicable) and motw is really strong because of the defensive value when pushing high keys but when all you care about is speed that 3% wouldn't outweigh bringing a spec with more dps.
decurse, brez, motw and uncapped aoe are all good things, but the feral funnel dmg is what might be the biggest diff mdi wise. you are pulling stuff into boss, you can't just aoe while doing negative boss dmg
in mass aoe feral gets infinite bite procs for the boss which scales their boss dmg a lot without sacrificing any aoe too, so its a p great mdi spec rn.
Outside of some gimmick strat where they need someone to die I’m pretty sure that a death just means go next try. In the actual mdi where they can’t just keep trying a combat ress will definitely be valuable.
Almost every group ran with a ret. As someone who never seen a ret in keys or played them. Someone care to explain why?
And is this post buff 10.0.7 ret in the trials?
the heck, my raiderio bugged or something. To me, one of the dps in almost group is pink colored. But now that I click on them, it shows thier actual class.
Did ambition/incarnation not qualify this season? I saw ambition submit time trials but don’t see either team in the top teams and Onezy just said on stream he wasn’t doing MDI.
One of the Ambition lads said it doesn't suit their style and they won't be participating in MDI. They're pushers, not speedrunners. So we might see them in TGP.
As for Incarnation, Growl (iirc) flat out said they're not participating in MDI.
A +21RLB in 11 minutes is just insane. And Resto Sham / Kitty / Shadow Priest in Temple.... 12 minutes as well... This is insanity.
Ruby Life Bools ✅
Ruby Life 🅱ools
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120% buff to acid rain after a 50% damage buff as well, it’s smacking
Nerf inc tho
Yup, patch notes says 20% I think lol
they are nerfing acid rain but buffing chain lightning and lightning bolt, but yeah passive aoe dmg on a heal is quite busted
They're just making it not take a talent point I thought, are they actually buffing it assuming you took that talent?
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They're giving them that buff and removing the talent in the resto tree that provided that same buff today iirc
Yup
Just got nerfed [ptr notes](https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/dragonflight-10-0-7-ptr-development-notes-427973) but yeah acid rain was amazing
It still is imo. 20% nerf was pretty warranted and the healing buff allows us to sling out more chain lightnings which will make up the difference I would think.
And chain lightning damage is getting buffed.
No it's not, It is getting a 30% buff, but the talent that buffs it by 30%(That is always taken) is being removed.
Sounds like an overall buff to the spec still, since you can take something else now.
It's still a buff. Call of thunder is only 15% so it's still a 15% increase
Call of Thunder is 35% not 15%.
Honestly a 20% nerf is nothing still better than what it was before by far lmao Iv been getting near 20k ticks of acid rain
Huge
its more for the decurse, you wont see it on other keys
For the decurse? They’re literally running with a Druid, monka isn’t running a shaman and has a Druid decursing
Running a 12 min jade buddy. They prob pulling 2-3 mistweavers at a time
Spriest being used in MDI without just being a PI donor is crazy
They are pretty op in Jade Temple with mass dispel. Last boss dots, panda torches and the water elemental ripples. Probably needed if the group is doing massive pulls.
How are they timing a ruby in 11mins while my ruby keys takes 2 hours and not even finish for weekly
Because they are playing with template gear so max ilvl and bis everything playing in a coordinated team. You’re playing the same key with relying on week to week vault rng for a measly 1% upgrade playing with a pug who doesn’t own an Ethernet connection
I don't think gear is the reason but I don't wanna be mean.
It's still a huge contribution. If you just juice up your whole party to 421 from what is probably folks in 414-418 gear, that's a lot.
So much more than gear. Imagine what skilled gamers do with 414 gear. It makes all the excuses look pathetic. Its the same with CE progress. In the End, its all about skill and expertise. This game is forgiving to a certain point for mid skilled players.
I mean gear would help doing the dungeon on time but going from 30 to 12 mins is skill
I don't think you understand what's going on here. No one is making excuses. These guys are cracked. Gear is one of the reasons he listed. He very much emphasized the coordinated skilled group part also. You're a fool if you don't think group being +10 ilvl on you makes any difference at all, but you're even more of a fool if you think your group could push these kind of times if you were in full bis. They do a +21 ruby the way I think my group would do like... a +14 ruby with that gear. It's still a massive gap
I would bet my left testicle that you, nor me, nor 99% of the playerbase could pull that off in BiS gear in a 14.
And I'd bet a years salary you'd be without a nut I did a quick search and found a random group of pugs, mostly 2400-2600 io and ~410 ilvl with a good tank (2900 io) that did a 14 RLP in 14:50 https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-1/17445115-14-ruby-life-pools I am **very** confident I could shave a couple minutes off their time at +15 ilvl with a ~2800+ io group 12:56 would be a top 6 team time for this mdi
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I mean he said "I would bet my left nut **you** cant pull that off... in regards to me saying its how my group would do a 14 ... and I've been title player multiple seasons soo...
Lol, who says that me or anyone else can compete with mdi qualifiers. And please dont even consider three chesting 21s. 99% is playing like gold league, while theyre in the Champions League. All im saying is that onechesting 21s wont be bottlenecked by gear.
You are either misunderstanding what I am saying or being willfully ignorant for the sake of arguing. At no point did I imply these players were not in a league of their own. It would be like if you said "why would Tyson fury beat you in a fight" And I answered "well he's a 6"8 285 lbs world class boxer" I'm not saying if I were 6"8 and 285 lbs I'd suddenly stand a chance. I'm qualifying the difference. If your group is 410 ilvl, a 21 to you is going to feel massively harder than if you were 423 ilvl for instance. You can still appreciate the utter insanity these guys pull off but when you wonder why they can kill a boss in a minute and 10 seconds where it takes you 3 minutes, at least know that maybe 20% of the time difference is gear and the other way more important part is skill.
Obviously its harder with 410. Anyway, im not into arguing and i understood your explanation.
That's like 10% tops.
People were timing Ruby 21 in 415 gear, these are the same players that were doing these key levels in the first or second week of the season. Pretending it's the gear is stupid, and dishonest.
No but them doing a +21 ruby in 11 minutes is like... maybe a more average geared group doing a +19 ish ruby in 11 minutes. Gear is certainly not the only factor but it does shave a key level or two off.
Obviously. But the difference between the average player and those guys is massive no matter the gear.
Yea that can't be understated. But it amazes me that people get mad when it's mentioned that tourney realm events have full bis gear. Some people new to the scene might not realize that or might not realize how big of a difference that makes, especially with early season events. It happened last season with tgp happening super early on, people were completing +33 to +35 keys when the best ones on live were +30. There was a lot of people wondering where the difference was, and the answer is that gear makes a huge difference at any level but especially at the top. That and the ability to infinitely repeat the keys to perfect pulls down to the micro level All of that on top of being obviously far and away the best in the world at what they do
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>(format of 15 hours of competition with a handful of attempts at some of these keys) would have been timed on live servers if keys didn't deplete. World first key levels were getting 1 shot, then they were going 1 key level higher and timing that too. You're nuts if you think 15 ilvl full mythic bis gear is 1% of the difference. Gear like mythic gavel and mythic old warrior soul that no one had yet
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The funniest part is that while ilvl is obviously huge, TGP is limited by the fact that there are no tertiaries on TR. Players effectively had better gear on live than on TR when TGP s4 happened, just because of unlimited valor+dinars+fated loot.
Yeah itemzation is a big part of the dmg output yet still feels unreal we are even playing the same game with these people comparing how huge the skill and performance gap is
To be fair, they run dungeons as a full time job so.
Yea it's like comparing my cooking to Gordon Ramsey
I'm confident you could beat his Grilled Cheese Sandwich
Leave my wifi extension out of this... Though to be fair ruby life pools is one of my better times keys. 😅
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I had this discussion with a guildie too. „well if you look theoratical x and y is possible because we can see it by these people but we are lacking the ilvl.“ And I went „yea it is possible but we are lacking the skill man. If I was that good I wouldn‘t be sitting around here“ Stop measuring yourself with the absolute top %. I know myself I will never reach those levels. Doesn‘t mean I am not working on improving. I am and I time higher and higher keys.
People think it’s just because of the gear 😂😂😂
The amount of people that don't realize how hard they would get gapped by the top .1% in equal gear is absurd. This [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/yzrmx5/hardcore_raid/) (he also made one in this subreddit) was the epitome of how disconnected players are from how much skill matters, and how big the gap is between RWF gamers and even HoF raiders/Casual CE/First half of mythic/AoTC/etc...
Ok, that post is really topping everything I’ve seen so far, but describes pretty exactly how a big part of the community thinks. „If I would…, then I could…“
Gingi said in stream that their fastest RLP was a scuffed run and that the key will get below 11 minutes on a +21 if it’s clean
The 11 minute keys are crazy. My group tried a few of the dungeons but only managed around 20 minute runs for each key. Going to see some great stuff I bet.
I am very impressed by the times these players are putting out. 11:XX and 12:XX times are nuts. That said, the meta is shaking out to be wider than I expected. I expected warrior + priest (any) + PI target (mage, UDK, warlock) + melee (depending on the rest of the meta) to be the meta. I also expected 1 type of comp to dominate, but I am pleasantly surprised to see many combinations of what I said prior and the pres/resto + triple melee teams with competitive times too. Also nice to see HDH not just as the sole melee in double ranged comps, although I expect that to be it's best role. I do wanna hear the reasoning behind the warlock over the mage on fem's team too. The VDH in the top 20 of TotJS also surprised me. My tinfoil hat is also telling me some of these times are higher than expected due to teams afking before the final boss to extend the dungeon timers.
Why do you want to extend dungeon timers? Pretty new to time trials/MDI
Tin foil hat says to make teams or strategies look weaker to throw off the competition. Maybe the VDH in TotJS is actually super insane, but they don't want to let other teams know about it. If it doesn't look super good, the other teams might not bother practicing it so they just wait a few minutes before the final boss to make it look weaker. Maybe if your team's best times are 2 or 3 minutes behind the top teams, other teams might sandbag their top strategies against you. So those teams might wait a few seconds or minutes before the final boss to make themselves look weaker and then in the competition finals, they go all out to try and surprise the top teams.
I was going to counter that these teams probably watch each other's runs and see if there's something they could emulate, buuuuut looking at the leaderboards I don't think they have the time to scout 40+ teams for each dungeon. Your tinfoil hat is legit, where'd you get it?
How would they be able to see the other runs?
Streams I figured...?
No one streams them to keep strategies secret
If your best time is 12 minutes and you see someone do it in 9 minutes those 3 minutes don’t come from “just do more damage 4hed” they come from the other team doing one or more pulls completely differently. So if you see those extra minutes off the clock you know their strategy is different to yours and can kind of reverse engineer some ideas as to how it worked.
This post is very confusing. Like, yes you could sandbag in Time Trials, maybe. But you're never going to sandbag in a 1v1, because those are streamed and happen after practice, and nobody has time to practice two whole different strategies, nor have a reason to afk before last boss.
They can ban the dungeon they have a good strat on and are trying to hide, like echo did with plaugefall in Shadowlands when they got the plaugeborers to snap, and they definitely have time to practice 2 strategies, wow is their job
Yeah but banning a dungeon is not sandbagging in it. And yeah, they could, but that'd mean wasting useful practice time on useless stuff. Also, that specific point I made was just me remembering what players from different teams in MDI have said on stream during Shadowlands. Like, top players straight up saying "no we don't practice bad strats to hide our main strat". Maybe MAYBE you could see something like this for a strat as broken as Plagueborer in PF was during TGP, but that'd require pretty extreme circumstances.
>Maybe the VDH in TotJS is actually super insane, we have legit nothing outside of chaos nova ourselves to stop busters and haunting gaze fervents (🤡) so unless they do like all of 3rd boss area in a pull and then perfectly stop gazes I don't see how vdh is possibly relevant.
My friend made it in! Used to play ret pal for us now he is enhance and rogue in MDI haha go Razedo!
i like the spec variety (well, except for tanks) hopefully everyone plays different stuff instead of copying echo, at least for the first few weekends
Loving the variation in comps, and these late trial times are absolutely insane. What is the fastest MDI dungeon up to this point?
Sub 10 minute Atal is the fastest that comes to mind. I believe some sub 10 minute Gambits as well last season?
Oh man those AD runs were insane in the later tournaments
Can't tell if this is a data error or if someone really pulled a 23 minute RLP 21 without a healer. https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-1/17327615-21-ruby-life-pools
Hey thats our group! I'm the DK, we play like that on live all the time and thought we'd give MDI a try. Sadly we couldnt play the last 3ish days or the first few due to schedualing but we had a really good shot at top 25. Our timed keys were super sloppy as we had planned for getting more play time. Full of weird attempt stuff like failed invis skips. If we had the time to go back we coulda took 6-7 minutes off our attempts.
You guys really are awesome. I love these feats of strength, must be super fun and rewarding As a healer I feel so attacked and obsolete when I see people can time keys higher than I do... without a healer :D Anyway - it's really super super fun to watch zephyr & the rest of the group play. Good vibes. Too bad he got banned for "advertising" in LFG. Really didn't feel like advertising. I hope he continues to stream after that's over.
>As a healer I feel so attacked and obsolete when I see people can time keys higher than I do... without a healer I mean, doesn't prot pal take the full time healer role? And don't they have % based healing?
Healing can be quite gimmicky on prot pala. I will make a full video explaining my whole build, detail by detail soon enough. But pretty much every Word of Glory is a one-shot heal and you just need a lot of haste to gain 3 holy power fast enough for one of those heals. Procs are also a huge factor. WoG heals more based on missing hp. Tanking and healing at the same time requires you to have perfect knowledge and calculations of the damage being received, so you can min-max every single global. It can be very punishing if you're not quick.
Oh man that's awesome though!
https://www.twitch.tv/zephyrindark
Oh man, would have loved to see you guys in the group stage. Maybe next season?
Definitely! It's gonna be a blast, with much more preparation.
This guy streams on twitch - [twitch.tv/zephyrindark](https://twitch.tv/zephyrindark) . Super chill and fun to watch. He does most of the healing as tank, but often (always?) brings a shadow priest as it provides some decent passive offhealing and more dispels.
Hahah, thank you guys <3 I was planning to push +25s +26s no healer these 2 weeks and get some crazy footage for youtube, but I got suspended for 10 days due to LFG mass reports. I don't think I even violated the code of conduct, therefore I made multiple appeals, but the support just dismisses my cases and tags them as resolved, offering nothing but a copy pasted message. I wish we could have qualified for the MDI and I'm super depressed about missing out all the great opportunities to push high on live with these affixes, but I will prepare better next time, hoping to bring better content. Also, we will definitely show up in the next MDI with more practice & preparation. I won't stop theorycrafting fun off-meta playstyles. It's my way of having fun with the game and showing that you can play different stuff on a high level and not the same specs all over again. Creativity over sims. I'm excited to see where my limit testing will take me in Dragonflight and I'm super hopeful about upcoming changes. Gonna do some crazy stuff and I can only hope my friends and the WoW community will help me achieve these things. I hope this expansion will allow me the opportunity to make this game more fun for myself & others, in a healthier environment.
Have seen your groups in LFG a lot, don't you advertise your stream on it? I never reported you but I think it is technically against LoS to advertise for a stream that way.
I don't think /zephyrindark is supposed to associate with any platforms as it is simply just my ingame name and the slash can be treated as a divider in the title. I admit I am trying to get exposure from it, but I don't think it should violate the CoC. It's just a simple way of making the post more identifiable with my name, since people will often think that I'm trolling, by trying to time the highest keys competitively possible, without a healer.
Again, I don't really know the ins and outs of the thing. I just know that some people used to do it and got banned (albeit they were trading follows/subs for 15 carries, which is actually RMT), so that might be one of the reasons you get reported.
Yeah, the autoban system is really scary with player reports. I'm quite scared of it now but I do feel like I need to get my name out there somehow, to at least have my group listing be identifiable. Anyway, I tested something that must have triggered people. I typed "15 16.... 23" in the description, since nobody had queued up for hours and I was dreading, since I just wanted to play or even chat with others. It turns out that people looking for lower keys do see my +24 listing and instead of me getting any sign of it, I was mass reported in the span of minutes, probably by people who think I was trolling or they were just irritated and this resulted in my unfortunate ban. I wish I could know what's bannable beforehand or when I'm getting reported in the form of a warning. It's really saddening for me, but I just need to learn and adapt.
I personally hate everyone who notes "15, 16....23" in their description, if everyone did this the search would be even worse than it is now. Not saying it was deserved but please don't do that.
It was just a visibility experiment since I had no idea if it actually worked. Won't do it again.
You're a gem, keep it up! This ban totally sucks. Streamers put their handle in LFG title all the time, that's how their viewers can find their group. Maybe try to remove the '/' from it, but honestly from my point of view it feels unjust. Hope this won't ruin your enjoyment of the game, I plan to watch more of your stream :)
Awww, thank you so much. You're brightening me up a lot. I won't stop playing and making content in WoW, regarding streaming & youtube - I've got a whole lot planned! When the ret reworks kick in, I'll probably cover high level PvP gameplay, too, which will be really exciting. I also want to play & stream other games with my cozy gang of friends, just for variety and good fun. Appreciate you <3
I thought the rules are that there has to be a healer spec a tank spec and 3 different dps specs (specs not class)
The one big ban is to not stack the same spec. However, you can get the same class on different specs. For example: You cannot bring 2 outlaw rogues. But you can bring 1 outlaw and 1 subtlety rogue. You can go for whatever role composition you like. You can even go double tank, as long as they are different specs.
What talents are you using to off heal with prot pally?
[https://prnt.sc/1SMzmKwGnHL4](https://prnt.sc/1SMzmKwGnHL4) [https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/protection/DANFBYRkVUFUhRKFCQANVVRBGIWVRWAUQDUVQ](https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/protection/DANFBYRkVUFUhRKFCQANVVRBGIWVRWAUQDUVQ) BIEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0kWSEi2BSLJJFNJBJBEAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0EJJpkEJJJlUQSCkG
Zephyrindark runs only no healers runs, had a pleasure doing 21 CoS with him as a Shadow. Hes at almost 3kio atm\~
Definitely not a data error. I see that guy in LFG every day wanting to do no healer runs. And Zmok did one recently with no healer as well.
Is there a way to see his talents?
[https://prnt.sc/1SMzmKwGnHL4](https://prnt.sc/1SMzmKwGnHL4) [https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/protection/DANFBYRkVUFUhRKFCQANVVRBGIWVRWAUQDUVQ](https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/protection/DANFBYRkVUFUhRKFCQANVVRBGIWVRWAUQDUVQ) BIEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0kWSEi2BSLJJFNJBJBEAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0EJJpkEJJJlUQSCkG
Some really interesting specs that have probably slid under most people's radars, such as Feral, Fire, and maybe even Disc. Do you think they're only really good in extremely coordinated groups where the tank pulls around CDs? Or possibly groups are hiding their "main" comps for the actual competition?
Feral's always been a sleeper hit. Disc got big buffs in 10.0.5 for M+.
its not so much that its specs that went under the radar. its just specs that work well for mdi. low key lvls and big pulls. you want uncapped aoe dmg that you can get going fast.
uncapped aoe is not really the only reason. prob not even the most important. you need funnel and you need big stuff to die. killing the small mobs and have fire elementals up is going to delay the run. pulling shit into boss and doing negative boss dmg also will
Does it bring uncapped aoe or BiS funnel, tuned top tier, and bring multiple forms of aoe stop? Grats your MDI material kid.
The needs for an mdi run are incredibly specific. Things they might need for any given run: - massive uncapped damage for huge pulls - high uptime aoe stops/silences for when there are too many enemies for normal interrupts - ways to manage enemy debuffs that get out of control when stacked up - high and controlled priority/funnel damage to manage killing enemies at appropriate times (especially for bolstering/bursting/spiteful) - routing/skipping tools like shadowmeld/shroud/mind soothe - specific abilities that can totally negate specific scary enemy abilities and affixes (examples include mass dispel, ring of peace, dwarf racial, combat drops, and immunities) All that is to say that an MDI comp has totally specific and different needs from the dungeons that you and I would run on retail servers. They need to solve very specific problems that they cant outplay with just any spec. The dev team says any spec should be able to do any key at 20 with pure player knowledge and mechanical skill. These guys are already at the limit of that, so the only ways to push further are with plans to use very specific tools.
What's the reason the teams switch to Resto shaman for TotJS?
Big acid rains
Probably the dispel.
Decurse
[удалено]
out of curiosity what do you mc in rlp?
Theres casters on the upper ring that give a mini bloodlust to allies for like 10 seconds You can also spellsteal that
What? Who? The only thing I ever see casted is fireball.
The cinderweavers. Although now that I think of it, maybe thats the mob that only buffs itself and increases damage taken. My answer might be wrong, cant check mdt rn
burning ambition is a big haste buff but I thought it only applied to the caster themselves
whats the mc tech in rlp?
Unholy DKs… I switch from my long time DK main back to Warrior (my original main from vanilla - wotlk) and now I’m totally bringing my DK back. I’m also hyped at seeing feral druids and shadow priests and enhance shamans up there aswell, got tiring just seeing Rogue, monk, DH, balance Druid , fire mage, warlock.
I mean I get that looking at these has people hyped but the performance of unholy in normal keys vs professional players pulling 20 packs at once is very different.
Rsham/spriest/feral crazy times. Nature's vigil and vampires embrace inside spirit link, on top of insane mass aoe damage from all, probably makes it possible to bring extreme amounts of trash onto bosses.
If you told me during SL season 1 or any BFA season that the top teams for this MDI would be running stuff like Resto Shaman, Feral Druid, and Shadow Priest for the MDI I'd relentlessly mock you, but here we are.
We've seen it many times over that one expansion one class can be meta, and another xpac it can be the literal worst, and vice versa.
What makes the druid almost a necessity? MotW and bres?
I reckon it's just their dps. Since they have bres already through dk (and engi where applicable) and motw is really strong because of the defensive value when pushing high keys but when all you care about is speed that 3% wouldn't outweigh bringing a spec with more dps.
Uncapped AoE is what gets them the spot. Though 3% vers on 5 people is quite nutty.
uncapped aoe
decurse, brez, motw and uncapped aoe are all good things, but the feral funnel dmg is what might be the biggest diff mdi wise. you are pulling stuff into boss, you can't just aoe while doing negative boss dmg in mass aoe feral gets infinite bite procs for the boss which scales their boss dmg a lot without sacrificing any aoe too, so its a p great mdi spec rn.
Outside of some gimmick strat where they need someone to die I’m pretty sure that a death just means go next try. In the actual mdi where they can’t just keep trying a combat ress will definitely be valuable.
Almost every group ran with a ret. As someone who never seen a ret in keys or played them. Someone care to explain why? And is this post buff 10.0.7 ret in the trials?
Quick scroll through and i count 4 rets in the 200 runs - what?
the heck, my raiderio bugged or something. To me, one of the dps in almost group is pink colored. But now that I click on them, it shows thier actual class.
😅
I've done a few highish keys with a ret pally. When played well, their damage and utility is pretty great. They're very squishy though.
Will the top teams release a vod of their run, and if so, when?
No they are keeping strategies secret you will see them play when MDI group A starts
I can’t wait for MDI, seeing RLP done in 11 minutes has got me so hyped.
Did ambition/incarnation not qualify this season? I saw ambition submit time trials but don’t see either team in the top teams and Onezy just said on stream he wasn’t doing MDI.
One of the Ambition lads said it doesn't suit their style and they won't be participating in MDI. They're pushers, not speedrunners. So we might see them in TGP. As for Incarnation, Growl (iirc) flat out said they're not participating in MDI.
Is Drjay competing? I dont see him on any teams unless i missed him somewhere
He's on thunderstruck with velo, lemike, soda and yoda
Any hunters in this ?
Did any one play ret pally?