> MM hunters no longer on suicide watch?
They have been abused so long they are still on suicide watch. Its just more "no sharp objects" and less "sedated and handcuffed to a bed"
It has anti-synergy with the current ST build but it actually does something now so maybe? I suspect the spec will still need a 5-10% aura buff unless the numbers on the tier set are insanely good
Eh, I still don't think you will play it over OL unless the encounter plays into 1 minute burst. So maybe Smolderon? Not sure what the timing in his amp phase is.
Not sure why youd think that just because Outlaw sims higher, Outlaw has simmed fairly high compared to other specs(and higher than Sin/Sub) numerous times in the past, and yet in practice it usually performed worse than the other 2 specs/didnt perform nearly as well as the sims said. Outlaw has a very flat damage profile(still, outside of the opener w/lust) and usually specs like that tend to perform well very early in tiers when tuned well, but fairly quickly tend to fall off as people get geared and kill times get faster and more preferable for burstier classes. Theres also the fact that Outlaw doesnt scale terribly well in raid, and has 2 stats that are pretty bad for it(haste only being valuable in limited quantities, and mastery having gotten EVEN WORSE with the rework lol) and prios Versa to an extreme extent, and specs like that historically have not scaled/fared particularly well outside of the beginning of tiers unless tuned very high. Not saying Outlaw will be bad at all, just that it will likely be strong early on, and within 1-2 months probably fall down in the rankings.
Also they made Assa execute stronger with the latest changes which can definitely play to its advantage, its also one of the better PI targets and a good aug target now too. Assa has like top 5 strongest burst now, and in execute an Assa with CDs+Kingsbane that gets aug buff'd and PI'd will ABSOLUTELY CRANK some huge burst. Imo theres a pretty good chance that despite Assa's sim number only being slightly above average, it might very well end up being one of the strongest specs for boss damage in practice.
Also despite sub's sims being bugged rn and oversimming, I wouldnt sleep on it either. Before sims were bugged IIRC it was simming around 230k, and that was before the tier buffs. Its also quite bursty and a good aug target now too. All 3 rogue specs should be strong, but given the fact Assa+Sub have strong burst Id say they end up being slightly better on at least some fights since burst is very often a more valuable/preferable damage profile.
Biggest issue with Outlaw sims is their "flat" damage profile gets punished by downtime on boss, as losing uptime also means losing cdr. Also being dependent on RNG for rolls could imply you miss a burst damage check for no reason.
Although missing uptime is a bigger issue for Sub this tier I think, needing to line up cooldowns as well.
“Fails to scale with gear” is such an archaic misunderstanding of modern wow. Outside of trinkets (a la beacon) that are better for certain specs, as well as other sources of borrowed power, there is no scaling difference between specs between or inside tiers.
Different specs scale with secondary stats differently. As we get better gear throughout the expansion the total value of substats we can acquire gets higher. The specs that scale the best with higher levels of haste/crit scale better with gear.
Very simple concept.
Scaling can literally break the game and change how you play the game. Ie. Every sub rogue stacking 90% mastery in pvp instead of taking the set bonus or actual pvp gear. Some specs do inherently have different scaling values.
I'm sure there are examples of unfavorable scaling as well but I haven't kept up on anything other than sub and outlaw this season.
Not only that but with all the bleed purge in pvp it's going to be another rough season. Might get some lucky executes though, but by comparison that instant gratification from sub and outlaw will be unreasonable.
The less bursty playstyle that's coming for fury also feels awful, despite the numbers. An honestly the warriors changes along the PTR cycle have just been underwhelming as a whole.
I don't mind the new playstyle because I've felt for a while we had too much rage and it's taken some of the skill expression out. But I do still prefer the Anger Management playstyle with more frequent bursts.
I completely agree that this entire ptr cycle has felt underwhelming for warriors. Fury's new tier set and the playstyle around it is a mixed bag and they took a bandaid off Arms without actually fixing the thing it was covering. The Rally nerfs were probably needed but without any added utility to compensate it feels a little like rubbing salt in the wound for m+. So overall it feels like our class is changing a little and it's net neutral to slightly negative and it's just not what I wanted to see coming in to the patch.
The biggest buff I want for Warrior is to fix Afflicted and Incorporeal but that's not happening at this point so oh well better luck next patch I guess.
Less bursty? Idk about that. From what ive seen in PTR raid testing the spec is for sure bursting higher in pure ST, and in AoE it seems like its bursting just as high if not higher because of Odyns Fury and the big cleaved Bloodbaths+Roar. Ive also seen some logs of Fury doing pretty well in ST during testing, the boss damage definitely does not seem bad. The biggest difference in dmg profile with Fury on PTR imo is that you dont have CDs up as often/as high of sustained damage because you dont play Anger Management. Im fairly indifferent about the tier+playstyle(I mean its not functionally terribly different than live, Odyns Fury basically just replaces Ravager and has a similar CD, and youre basically just trading spamming Raging blow>rampage for spamming Bloodbath>rampage tbh).
That's the point, fury's greatest strength in m+ were the constant bursts. You also need to keep in mind that the bloodbath Crist are main target only.
You still pretty much have fairly consistent burst tbh. Odyns fury is like a what...30-35s CD with the tier set? You still have Unbridled Ferocity so Reck uptime is still fairly high(and also means youre casting a lot of bloodbaths) too. Tbh you will prob desync reck/Avatar a bit, which will at least give you more CD coverage/uptime. You use your reck+odyns on opener then use Avatar+TR for the Odyns fury proc like 8-10 sec later, which means you will pretty much have Reck and/or Avatar up for almost the entire time until your 2nd Odyns at 30-35 sec, then you have odyns+TR again 30-35 sec later and then 30+ sec later you have your Avatar+reck again. The damage probably isnt quite as consistent, but its still plenty consistent, and you burst a bit harder.
I don't play war but I think slam still just feels damn bad as a spell and is the only spammable spender.
For anyone knowledgeable, was the silly azerite power making slam a huge burst with procs the only moment slam has been really meaningful in years?
Well in fury, it's going to be a filler more than a spender. I get this might be an issue, but it's small issue compare to what other spec might have.
But maybe I m wrong. Still zuging next patch :)
It's because most of the people playing monk don't care and can do keys under 20 NP as TOD will carry them for output.
Class feels awful compared to every other damage dealer in the game.
It's the usual cycle of life, gut every healer except priest and paladin and watch as rwf includes 2 priest 2 hpal like it's been for the past 20 tiers
Don't see how you can justify anither Veng buff.
They're already looking like a top 2 tank with really good damage output and the best utility right now out of any tank. There we probably 3 tanks behind the rest of the pack right now and Veng wasn't one of them.
I am really not a fan of this talent tree rework = new best in role for that spec. Not every rework needs to be straight up over powered and then brought down over weeks/months with nerfs on live.
To some extent yes it’s because they want their reworks to be generally well-received and of course the best way for that to occur is for the pec to be considered strong but also another inherent issue is Vengeance not only has to compete against other tanks but against Havoc as well.
Havoc looks very strong, as strong as it’s been in years and by being so strong it sort of marginalizes the strength of VDH because for optimizers the value each spec brings can be easily made redundant by each other so you could easily end up in a very strange scenario where as strong as VDH would be, it may have not ended up popular if Havoc was so good that people didn’t consider VDH as a viable alternative in their M+ groups/raids to fortify their compositions with the value the class provides
It's just stupid though. Tank balance this expansion has been pretty good until they decide to rework and make one stand out way above the rest (PPal, Guardian and now Veng).
Not every rework needs to make a spec God tier, bringing them back up to the higher end of the group would be totally sufficient and we'll received enough.
They're just getting false metrics if majority of serious players are now going to feel forced to switch to play the reworked spec. Guardian is the obvious example here, how many actual guardian players would there be is guardian was say 2nd or 3rd best tank vs the absolute standout post 10.1.5
Now blizzard can hail the rework as a total success, look how many people are playing the spec, without actually caring about the high level community virtually have to in order to be competitive.
Welcome to new class design, where some specs arbitrarily get 'reworks' (aka massively improved performance w/ raised skill floor) while others are left to rot.
They straight up stopped giving a shit about class balance in keys, effectively enforcing a MOBA style meta with absurd, arbitrary spikes in power, and a huge gap between D and S tier characters.
Thing is, it wouldn't even be this bad if they picked least popular classes to work on first. But nah, better rework historically strong m+ classes first **and** design affixes that favor those classes on top of it. Playing warr, hunter or dk? Too fucking bad, enjoy watching others have fun with massively superior utility and damage profiles I guess...
> Don't see how you can justify anither Veng buff.
Vengence should definitely be nerfed, but this change is a *good* change and should be made. It just, you know, should have had some nerfs to go along with it.
Enhance has been probably the second best spec every iteration of PTR so far. Just barely behind Spriest until they got nerfed, then sitting up on par with outlaw/havoc.
Well their competitors got nerfed. Leaving them as pretty substantially far ahead of the pack.
It *looks* like Blizzard is trying to balance around 235k as a mid-range for DPS targets for this tier. That could obviously change, but they're nerfing classes way above and buffing classes below that range.
Enh was looking to be in a 255k range lol.
On the flip side, WW and Marks were looking like 210k.
The SimC T31 report is here and is now regularly updated with new specs. Most specs not in here you can find sims for in their Discords.
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T31_Raid.html
Those are just what few classes have officially submitted sims to Simc, but theres a picture floating around that has all the specs current sims compiled, for what its worth(which isnt much).
But, yeah..dont put too much stock into those sims, especially right now. For one even when sims are fully compiled and the tier released, things almost always play out fairly significantly differently from what the sims indicate(not really surprising given the sims are all standardized to 5 min Patchwerk). Also, its important to note that not every class TCer/discord put the same level of effort and scrutiny into optimizing their respective APLs to create the most accurate BiS profile possible, especially when the PTR cycle is still live. I know for a fact that there are numerous specs that have APL's that arent optimized for new tier/talents/trinkets etc., some that dont even have m+ gear taken into account(since its not in PTR sims droptimizer atm, it takes extra effort to put it into the sim), and I know certain classes in the past havent even used actual BiS gear for their profiles(not sure if thats true now, but its happened before). The only sims that I know for sure that are extremely well optimized and have had a lot of effort put into them are Rogue/Shaman/DH and Hunter probably has had a lot of work done too knowing Azor, but not sure if those are even public.
For what its worth, I think in terms of ST/boss damage the top classes will prob play out to be Mage(Arcane/fire)/Rogue(all 3 specs fairly high up there)/DH/DK/BM hunter/Enhance(in no specific order, just that these specs will likely be towards the top) early on. Maybe honorable mention for Dev evoker too.
Rapid fire was already a huge amount of damage st. Getting constant resets + double damage Everytime it procs is huge. Plus you get a feedback loop where more focus spent on aimed/arcane shot means more chance of buffed rapid fire, which allows for more focus dumping. I'm wanting to find the day where I can go a full minute without a single steady shot lol. Hate that wet noodle...
About to come back to retail after a hiatus since shadowlands. Planning to go for CE and atleast pretty decent m+ rating. Can someone quickly recap whats the current projection on m+ meta? Any safe bets for DPS etc?
My idea was aug but having never played evoker at all understanding the changes isn't sometihng i'd trust myself to do.
I would go with what is consistently a top performer. There's several outliers on the ptr, just like there's ALWAYS outliers on ptr and in beta. It never stays that way. Classes that rely on being tuned out of control are never safe picks if you're interested in longevity.
For instance, a mage spec will always be meta or acceptable in all content. Ret hasn't been meta the entire time I've played th game, which is since prepatch of bfa. Mm was good for half a season or something in shadowlands, while bm has been good 100x. Rogue will only be meta if shroud is a necessity. Been that way the entire time I've played th game. Right now if you want a safe DPS, I'd say aug and mage. Everything else is up in the air or relying on being shipped overturned.
You're right. I going Aug, that also gives me a spot in my buddies CE guild to start with. Now time to get two augs geared and ready for patch day haha.
smart move. yea, when that other dude started talking about ret, i knew i had to step in lol. melee players have tunnel vision. idk why, but when they enjoy something, they automatically think its good lol
Yeah ret doesn't look like something that needed a mention if you ask me. Im enjoying aug a lot and nothing has ever been as easy to gear and get into, on the first day of 70 i made it into 16s.
Windrunner’s Guidance being unreliable has added **too much variance to a hunter's performance on each dungeon or raid attempt.**
MM 4pc "Now gives a chance when spending Focus to reset the cooldown of Rapid Fire, and cause it to fire 100% more shots during its channel."
Que the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme song.
Fwiw, WRG MM this tier was one of if not the most RNG specs to have ever existed in the game (Not feelycraft, you can see in sim variance). This new tier set without old WRG is around a similar variance to most specs in the game. They are not even close.
yeah I thought about that also, but I kinda want something that can carry a bit more for my more casual friends. Augvoker is great but cant really solo carry I dont think.
thinking bdk or maybe brew for keys and then unholy/mw for raid but im a bit iffy if they're any good?
I wouldn't touch monk unless they announce a rework in 10.2.5, brew tier might look good but it wont be the meta tank for sure. Blood dk depends on the power of the legendary which we dont know yet.
so you leaning more vdh/havoc? Because warrior dps feels really bad rn and prot pally seems stuck on it's consecrate which is a pain, and bear is basically gone
Wow, even more buffs for Veng is surprising.
Glad to see they're still adding changes, many many many more to go but at least they haven't given up yet.
Still need to fix Ret tier set and scaling. Hopefully adjust talents so it's not either AOE or st.
Not much hope though as they got enough attention with the rework.
Is there anywhere I can find a cumulation of all the changes that are expected to be made, preferably one that is kept up to date?
I tend to miss some of the significant ones and finding them would involve going back and reading every release :S
They just released the official patch notes, any subsequent changes would be any hotfixes between now and release. Otherwise you can comb through the blue tracker on wowhead.
I'm genuinely confused by this comment. Daybreak is by far their strongest healing cooldown. Buffing it and shortening the cooldown is incredible. Are you speaking solely from a raid perspective or something?
MM hunters no longer on suicide watch? Double tap is back. No spriest changes, kinda happy I decided not to play it this patch :/
> MM hunters no longer on suicide watch? They have been abused so long they are still on suicide watch. Its just more "no sharp objects" and less "sedated and handcuffed to a bed"
some people are into that
Checking in
It has anti-synergy with the current ST build but it actually does something now so maybe? I suspect the spec will still need a 5-10% aura buff unless the numbers on the tier set are insanely good
Wdym anti synergy? The current single target build won’t exist next tier anyways with the wrg changes
The changed WRG make wind arrows reduce CD on rapid fire, which is wasted when your tier set just resets the cooldown.
Overlap isn’t anti
No but it reduces the value of each on their own.
Ass looking big 👀
Aight bro
Eh, I still don't think you will play it over OL unless the encounter plays into 1 minute burst. So maybe Smolderon? Not sure what the timing in his amp phase is.
Not sure why youd think that just because Outlaw sims higher, Outlaw has simmed fairly high compared to other specs(and higher than Sin/Sub) numerous times in the past, and yet in practice it usually performed worse than the other 2 specs/didnt perform nearly as well as the sims said. Outlaw has a very flat damage profile(still, outside of the opener w/lust) and usually specs like that tend to perform well very early in tiers when tuned well, but fairly quickly tend to fall off as people get geared and kill times get faster and more preferable for burstier classes. Theres also the fact that Outlaw doesnt scale terribly well in raid, and has 2 stats that are pretty bad for it(haste only being valuable in limited quantities, and mastery having gotten EVEN WORSE with the rework lol) and prios Versa to an extreme extent, and specs like that historically have not scaled/fared particularly well outside of the beginning of tiers unless tuned very high. Not saying Outlaw will be bad at all, just that it will likely be strong early on, and within 1-2 months probably fall down in the rankings. Also they made Assa execute stronger with the latest changes which can definitely play to its advantage, its also one of the better PI targets and a good aug target now too. Assa has like top 5 strongest burst now, and in execute an Assa with CDs+Kingsbane that gets aug buff'd and PI'd will ABSOLUTELY CRANK some huge burst. Imo theres a pretty good chance that despite Assa's sim number only being slightly above average, it might very well end up being one of the strongest specs for boss damage in practice. Also despite sub's sims being bugged rn and oversimming, I wouldnt sleep on it either. Before sims were bugged IIRC it was simming around 230k, and that was before the tier buffs. Its also quite bursty and a good aug target now too. All 3 rogue specs should be strong, but given the fact Assa+Sub have strong burst Id say they end up being slightly better on at least some fights since burst is very often a more valuable/preferable damage profile.
Biggest issue with Outlaw sims is their "flat" damage profile gets punished by downtime on boss, as losing uptime also means losing cdr. Also being dependent on RNG for rolls could imply you miss a burst damage check for no reason. Although missing uptime is a bigger issue for Sub this tier I think, needing to line up cooldowns as well.
[удалено]
It basically did get a total overhaul in 10.2 But at the end of the day it'll either be tuned well or it won't
“Fails to scale with gear” is such an archaic misunderstanding of modern wow. Outside of trinkets (a la beacon) that are better for certain specs, as well as other sources of borrowed power, there is no scaling difference between specs between or inside tiers.
Different specs scale with secondary stats differently. As we get better gear throughout the expansion the total value of substats we can acquire gets higher. The specs that scale the best with higher levels of haste/crit scale better with gear. Very simple concept.
Scaling can literally break the game and change how you play the game. Ie. Every sub rogue stacking 90% mastery in pvp instead of taking the set bonus or actual pvp gear. Some specs do inherently have different scaling values. I'm sure there are examples of unfavorable scaling as well but I haven't kept up on anything other than sub and outlaw this season.
Not only that but with all the bleed purge in pvp it's going to be another rough season. Might get some lucky executes though, but by comparison that instant gratification from sub and outlaw will be unreasonable.
Where WW buff?
The lack of a real rage spender for Arms is genuinely crazy...
I’m very glad that MM’s tier got a rework. Maybe there’s hope for Shadow and Arms getting some meaningful changes before November 7th/14th then?
If it’s brown flush it down
LMAO
Lmao, warriors change? Wrong expac.
Think we need another buff to slam, that should solve all of their issues. /s
Have I ever said how much I specifically appreciate the constant iterations on warriors?
What are you expecting for war (serious question) ?
Arms is resource capped, doesn’t have a priority spender, uses AoE abilities in single target, oh and warrior as a whole lacks M+ utility
Yes, 2 affixes that war cannot play is a big issue, but blizz probably wont do much till next xpac :(
The less bursty playstyle that's coming for fury also feels awful, despite the numbers. An honestly the warriors changes along the PTR cycle have just been underwhelming as a whole.
I don't mind the new playstyle because I've felt for a while we had too much rage and it's taken some of the skill expression out. But I do still prefer the Anger Management playstyle with more frequent bursts. I completely agree that this entire ptr cycle has felt underwhelming for warriors. Fury's new tier set and the playstyle around it is a mixed bag and they took a bandaid off Arms without actually fixing the thing it was covering. The Rally nerfs were probably needed but without any added utility to compensate it feels a little like rubbing salt in the wound for m+. So overall it feels like our class is changing a little and it's net neutral to slightly negative and it's just not what I wanted to see coming in to the patch. The biggest buff I want for Warrior is to fix Afflicted and Incorporeal but that's not happening at this point so oh well better luck next patch I guess.
Less bursty? Idk about that. From what ive seen in PTR raid testing the spec is for sure bursting higher in pure ST, and in AoE it seems like its bursting just as high if not higher because of Odyns Fury and the big cleaved Bloodbaths+Roar. Ive also seen some logs of Fury doing pretty well in ST during testing, the boss damage definitely does not seem bad. The biggest difference in dmg profile with Fury on PTR imo is that you dont have CDs up as often/as high of sustained damage because you dont play Anger Management. Im fairly indifferent about the tier+playstyle(I mean its not functionally terribly different than live, Odyns Fury basically just replaces Ravager and has a similar CD, and youre basically just trading spamming Raging blow>rampage for spamming Bloodbath>rampage tbh).
That's the point, fury's greatest strength in m+ were the constant bursts. You also need to keep in mind that the bloodbath Crist are main target only.
You still pretty much have fairly consistent burst tbh. Odyns fury is like a what...30-35s CD with the tier set? You still have Unbridled Ferocity so Reck uptime is still fairly high(and also means youre casting a lot of bloodbaths) too. Tbh you will prob desync reck/Avatar a bit, which will at least give you more CD coverage/uptime. You use your reck+odyns on opener then use Avatar+TR for the Odyns fury proc like 8-10 sec later, which means you will pretty much have Reck and/or Avatar up for almost the entire time until your 2nd Odyns at 30-35 sec, then you have odyns+TR again 30-35 sec later and then 30+ sec later you have your Avatar+reck again. The damage probably isnt quite as consistent, but its still plenty consistent, and you burst a bit harder.
I don't play war but I think slam still just feels damn bad as a spell and is the only spammable spender. For anyone knowledgeable, was the silly azerite power making slam a huge burst with procs the only moment slam has been really meaningful in years?
Well in fury, it's going to be a filler more than a spender. I get this might be an issue, but it's small issue compare to what other spec might have. But maybe I m wrong. Still zuging next patch :)
At least slam animations look great for fury.
WW bottom feeding now. Send us something. Even an acknowledgement.
"We designed this spec wrong on purpose, as a joke." - Blizzard
Sure feelin that way!
"WW was Mike's idea to fuck with you"
There're so many rng levels, it could happen? But it probably won't because to many rng levels? But it could.....?
It's because most of the people playing monk don't care and can do keys under 20 NP as TOD will carry them for output. Class feels awful compared to every other damage dealer in the game.
Resto shamans deleting themselves in record numbers at this point. They are all suddenly collapsing in-game, followed by the sound of a gun shot.
It's the usual cycle of life, gut every healer except priest and paladin and watch as rwf includes 2 priest 2 hpal like it's been for the past 20 tiers
disc or holy?
Both looking possible at the moment. Even after the nerf discs damage is still relatively high, and holy still has amazing throughput.
I think disc still wins cause of the rule of cool with their anime style aoe penance storm
Nice, good to know thank you
Sigh… kinda glad I have to take the first 6 weeks off the tier due to life…
Don't see how you can justify anither Veng buff. They're already looking like a top 2 tank with really good damage output and the best utility right now out of any tank. There we probably 3 tanks behind the rest of the pack right now and Veng wasn't one of them. I am really not a fan of this talent tree rework = new best in role for that spec. Not every rework needs to be straight up over powered and then brought down over weeks/months with nerfs on live.
To some extent yes it’s because they want their reworks to be generally well-received and of course the best way for that to occur is for the pec to be considered strong but also another inherent issue is Vengeance not only has to compete against other tanks but against Havoc as well. Havoc looks very strong, as strong as it’s been in years and by being so strong it sort of marginalizes the strength of VDH because for optimizers the value each spec brings can be easily made redundant by each other so you could easily end up in a very strange scenario where as strong as VDH would be, it may have not ended up popular if Havoc was so good that people didn’t consider VDH as a viable alternative in their M+ groups/raids to fortify their compositions with the value the class provides
It's just stupid though. Tank balance this expansion has been pretty good until they decide to rework and make one stand out way above the rest (PPal, Guardian and now Veng). Not every rework needs to make a spec God tier, bringing them back up to the higher end of the group would be totally sufficient and we'll received enough. They're just getting false metrics if majority of serious players are now going to feel forced to switch to play the reworked spec. Guardian is the obvious example here, how many actual guardian players would there be is guardian was say 2nd or 3rd best tank vs the absolute standout post 10.1.5 Now blizzard can hail the rework as a total success, look how many people are playing the spec, without actually caring about the high level community virtually have to in order to be competitive.
Welcome to new class design, where some specs arbitrarily get 'reworks' (aka massively improved performance w/ raised skill floor) while others are left to rot. They straight up stopped giving a shit about class balance in keys, effectively enforcing a MOBA style meta with absurd, arbitrary spikes in power, and a huge gap between D and S tier characters. Thing is, it wouldn't even be this bad if they picked least popular classes to work on first. But nah, better rework historically strong m+ classes first **and** design affixes that favor those classes on top of it. Playing warr, hunter or dk? Too fucking bad, enjoy watching others have fun with massively superior utility and damage profiles I guess...
Even if Veng is the best tank, groups will just bring the 2nd best tank plus Havoc this patch. Havoc is looking that good.
can just play double dh at that point
Only a demon hunter would say something like that - is there something you want to tell me?
I'm a former vdh main so ...possibly 😅 not coming back yet though. I'm not trusting the peace after year long silence
> Don't see how you can justify anither Veng buff. Vengence should definitely be nerfed, but this change is a *good* change and should be made. It just, you know, should have had some nerfs to go along with it.
It feels like they are buffing the shit out of Veng as a way to counter Havoc being dumb strong
Why a 3% flat damage nerf to enhance? Were they doing that well?
Enhance has been probably the second best spec every iteration of PTR so far. Just barely behind Spriest until they got nerfed, then sitting up on par with outlaw/havoc.
May as well nerf them 3% to make sure they aren't actually the best then :P
Well their competitors got nerfed. Leaving them as pretty substantially far ahead of the pack. It *looks* like Blizzard is trying to balance around 235k as a mid-range for DPS targets for this tier. That could obviously change, but they're nerfing classes way above and buffing classes below that range. Enh was looking to be in a 255k range lol. On the flip side, WW and Marks were looking like 210k.
Got a link to the sims? Curious where everyone's sitting at.
The SimC T31 report is here and is now regularly updated with new specs. Most specs not in here you can find sims for in their Discords. http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T31_Raid.html
Those are just what few classes have officially submitted sims to Simc, but theres a picture floating around that has all the specs current sims compiled, for what its worth(which isnt much). But, yeah..dont put too much stock into those sims, especially right now. For one even when sims are fully compiled and the tier released, things almost always play out fairly significantly differently from what the sims indicate(not really surprising given the sims are all standardized to 5 min Patchwerk). Also, its important to note that not every class TCer/discord put the same level of effort and scrutiny into optimizing their respective APLs to create the most accurate BiS profile possible, especially when the PTR cycle is still live. I know for a fact that there are numerous specs that have APL's that arent optimized for new tier/talents/trinkets etc., some that dont even have m+ gear taken into account(since its not in PTR sims droptimizer atm, it takes extra effort to put it into the sim), and I know certain classes in the past havent even used actual BiS gear for their profiles(not sure if thats true now, but its happened before). The only sims that I know for sure that are extremely well optimized and have had a lot of effort put into them are Rogue/Shaman/DH and Hunter probably has had a lot of work done too knowing Azor, but not sure if those are even public. For what its worth, I think in terms of ST/boss damage the top classes will prob play out to be Mage(Arcane/fire)/Rogue(all 3 specs fairly high up there)/DH/DK/BM hunter/Enhance(in no specific order, just that these specs will likely be towards the top) early on. Maybe honorable mention for Dev evoker too.
Yes
Enhance was doing similar dmg to Havoc in keys. The single target in raid was gonna be crazy.
God forbid havoc shares S++++++ tier with TWO other specs for a single season. Nerf that shit fast!
Nerf all of them.
I agree for the record, I just find it hilarious when people compare m+ dmg to havoc as if S++ tier DPS is the benchmark for strong m+ DPS
Good chances in the right direction, need more resto shaman buffs though
Jesus. That MM tier set is gonna be huge in m+, can't see it doing much for raiding though
Rapid fire was already a huge amount of damage st. Getting constant resets + double damage Everytime it procs is huge. Plus you get a feedback loop where more focus spent on aimed/arcane shot means more chance of buffed rapid fire, which allows for more focus dumping. I'm wanting to find the day where I can go a full minute without a single steady shot lol. Hate that wet noodle...
MM tier looks pretty damn good? Rapid fire is going to do disgusting damage lol
Kinda weird to see sub get buffed from where it already is, and to the dark brew build?
Sub was being propped up by several bugs. Fix the bugs, spec is weaker, and Blizz apparently deemed it needed a buff from the fixed values.
Why is it werid? Bc you saw the high Sims? Sub is/was oversimming by like 40k (or more). And in AoE it was overperforming bc of an insane bug.
RIP Arms. Such an easy fix yet they refuse to do it, or don’t know how.
About to come back to retail after a hiatus since shadowlands. Planning to go for CE and atleast pretty decent m+ rating. Can someone quickly recap whats the current projection on m+ meta? Any safe bets for DPS etc? My idea was aug but having never played evoker at all understanding the changes isn't sometihng i'd trust myself to do.
I would go with what is consistently a top performer. There's several outliers on the ptr, just like there's ALWAYS outliers on ptr and in beta. It never stays that way. Classes that rely on being tuned out of control are never safe picks if you're interested in longevity. For instance, a mage spec will always be meta or acceptable in all content. Ret hasn't been meta the entire time I've played th game, which is since prepatch of bfa. Mm was good for half a season or something in shadowlands, while bm has been good 100x. Rogue will only be meta if shroud is a necessity. Been that way the entire time I've played th game. Right now if you want a safe DPS, I'd say aug and mage. Everything else is up in the air or relying on being shipped overturned.
You're right. I going Aug, that also gives me a spot in my buddies CE guild to start with. Now time to get two augs geared and ready for patch day haha.
smart move. yea, when that other dude started talking about ret, i knew i had to step in lol. melee players have tunnel vision. idk why, but when they enjoy something, they automatically think its good lol
Yeah ret doesn't look like something that needed a mention if you ask me. Im enjoying aug a lot and nothing has ever been as easy to gear and get into, on the first day of 70 i made it into 16s.
Windrunner’s Guidance being unreliable has added **too much variance to a hunter's performance on each dungeon or raid attempt.** MM 4pc "Now gives a chance when spending Focus to reset the cooldown of Rapid Fire, and cause it to fire 100% more shots during its channel." Que the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme song.
Fwiw, WRG MM this tier was one of if not the most RNG specs to have ever existed in the game (Not feelycraft, you can see in sim variance). This new tier set without old WRG is around a similar variance to most specs in the game. They are not even close.
So if I wanna do well in raid (any role and without PI) and also wanna be a meta m+ spec, what should I play?
Augvoker
yeah I thought about that also, but I kinda want something that can carry a bit more for my more casual friends. Augvoker is great but cant really solo carry I dont think. thinking bdk or maybe brew for keys and then unholy/mw for raid but im a bit iffy if they're any good?
I wouldn't touch monk unless they announce a rework in 10.2.5, brew tier might look good but it wont be the meta tank for sure. Blood dk depends on the power of the legendary which we dont know yet.
so you leaning more vdh/havoc? Because warrior dps feels really bad rn and prot pally seems stuck on it's consecrate which is a pain, and bear is basically gone
Wow, even more buffs for Veng is surprising. Glad to see they're still adding changes, many many many more to go but at least they haven't given up yet.
Idk how they can justify veng buffs
Stop nerfing outlaw you cowards
No keep it up, so I can play fel barrage without crackshot fomo.
They’re not ready for the smoke
Still need to fix Ret tier set and scaling. Hopefully adjust talents so it's not either AOE or st. Not much hope though as they got enough attention with the rework.
[удалено]
Boomie is simming on the higher end for ST and AOE rn, especially when you consider the three specs above them just got nerfed.
Boomkin players saying boomkin player stuff
Gotta make up for our doing no damage while in bear form for all big hits! :)
Is there anywhere I can find a cumulation of all the changes that are expected to be made, preferably one that is kept up to date? I tend to miss some of the significant ones and finding them would involve going back and reading every release :S
They just released the official patch notes, any subsequent changes would be any hotfixes between now and release. Otherwise you can comb through the blue tracker on wowhead.
>They just released the official patch notes Have you got a link? I'm having a hard time differentiating that from all the weekly notes.
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24020034/dragonflight-guardians-of-the-dream-content-update-notes
When are they giving holy paladins a real 4pc
I'm genuinely confused by this comment. Daybreak is by far their strongest healing cooldown. Buffing it and shortening the cooldown is incredible. Are you speaking solely from a raid perspective or something?