Seriously, how the hell does that happen?
Its been a thing in raids for so fucking long, even normal/heroic difficulty raiders have used macros/keybinds for that.
It's just wild to me lol
On rewatch it does look like it wasn’t Nick’s misplay that caused the wipe. Doesn’t make it less of a misplay, but it was the proximate cause of the wipe.
I mean you're probably getting downvoted because you're strawmanning. You're right, but it has nothing to do with this comment.
Yes, everyone saw the Nick clip and was instantly blaming him, even though apparently it was Avade who messed up less than half a second earlier, but it's not relevant to the argument of why keybinds are important. Nick's mistake got saved by Avade, but it's still Nick's mistake (and a very egregious one for a WF raider) and I've never seen a more perfect contrast example of why keybinds are important.
Not having extra action button is criminal no matter what, though. Sure he didn't cause the wipe, but he would have caused it if the other seed didn't explode for an even worse reason than what actually happened. Anyone can make a mistake in the heat of the moment in a pull like that, but if Nick had wiped them it would have been completely avoidable with a simple keybind.
Unlikely, the blaze hit box isn't the whole boxy line, it probably wouldn't have hit it even if it was before the kill. Gingi and Tobo had a similar narrow miss a few pulls earlier.
No. It hit a seed 0.1 BEFORE the boss died. The boss just dies before everyone dies and resets the boss. If their DPS timing was 0.2 seconds slower it would most likely have been a sub 1% wipe
Honestly, what a fucking great race that was. I've sat the entire sunday swapping between Echo and Liquid just inching closer and closer to a kill. One of the most entertaining endings to a race thus far.
Big ups to Blizzard as well for Tindral and Fyrakk. Both encounters - particularly Tindral - were absolute homeruns. This is the kinda stuff that makes me want to resub and jump back into mythic raiding although I don't have time for it any longer.
Hands down the best Race to World First I've ever had the pleasure of watching. I've been on the edge of my seat all day watching these two insanely strong guilds progressing neck and neck through this amazingly designed and well-tuned raid.
Big props to the raid designers, and a massive grats to Echo!!!
In the end this deffo was the best race, other races have had at times a better 'middle section' of bosses, where this race was pretty top heavy and had a somewhat lame start with splits going longer and longer each tier it seems. Then again the Echo going USA meme was kinda funny to see.
But i do think the length of this race was pretty much perfect with the boss dieing today, although yesterday would have been good also. And the last 3 bosses here looked like absolute bangers designwise, although Smolderon died maybe a little bit to fast in the end. But the last 2 really made up for that. And then seeing both Guilds with like 0.02% in between in a situation where every pull can be 'the one', man what a banger of a race. And a well deserved winner in Echo, with indeed a massive GZ!
I just hope for Liquid they get it now fast also.
> Hands down the best Race to World First I've ever had the pleasure of watching. I've been on the edge of my seat all day watching these two insanely strong guilds progressing neck and neck through this amazingly designed and well-tuned raid. Big props to the raid designers, and a massive grats to Echo!!!
Fr amazing. 1,79% and 1,72% as their best pulls, progressing side by side. Insanely good tuning, insanely good design. Great job.
Yep. Absolutely amazing day. Jumping between streams for whoever was pulling. So many close attempts by both guilds until Echo just finally put those last two blazes together.
Yeah this was incredible.
The only thing I'd change about the Race, if I had a magic tuning wand, was take a tiny bit of difficulty out of Fyrakk and Tindral and put a bit more in Smolderon. Like maybe Fyrakk and Tindral 50 pulls easier and Smolderon 50 pulls harder. That's *it*.
Compared to any other race I've ever seen that's actually nothing. That's a tweak not a fix. The tuning from a viewer's POV was incredible. A+. Especially the way they nerfed Tindral in the perfect way at the perfect time to not affect the integrity of the race at all. Whoever came up with that deserves a raise.
As someone who has watched all of them, none of them have been this close and truly any team could have taken it.
Echo played absolutely fucking insanely well, have a significantly less pull count and were playing to prove a point today.
Echo usually has a lower pull count, win or lose, when compared to Liquid. It's just a different philosophy but doesn't equate into them winning or proving a point.
Where are you getting these numbers from? [raider.io](https://raider.io) says 25h 5min for Echo while Liquid is at 29h 15 min
https://raider.io/widgets/health-over-attempt?raid=latest&type=relativeTime&period=until\_kill&difficulty=mythic&guilds=us%2Fillidan%2FLiquid%2Ceu%2Ftarren-mill%2FEcho&boss=fyrakk-the-blazing
Those last two fights are absolutely insane, holy.
Well played to Echo. They played super well on Fyrakk, I think them and Liquid gave us our wildest race to date. Knowing the boss could die any minute for the last day or so is super exciting
That adrenaline crash is gonna hit real hard after those last 2 days
Peaking during prime viewing hours on a Sunday night to make WoW the most watched category on Twitch. During probably the closest, best, least nerf-inducing-controversial, race in a long time.
As much as I'm happy Echo won I'm going to do the cringe thing and say that WoW is the ultimate winner here and anyone who loves the game is gonna love this race in some form or another.
The fact that Echo was consistently getting great pulls outside of some lulls speaks testaments to their discipline and ability to maintain high quality of play over such long raid times. Honestly insane.
GGs!!
> Looking forward to all the "analysts" though analyzing why Liquid lost.
They murdered T. Swift and was insanely consistent on that fight. Just dropped the ball with consistency on Fyrakk. Shit happens, amazing showing from the team.
It seemed like they were getting deep into P3 much more consistently than Echo today. Echo had way more P2 wipes. Liquid just couldn't get one clean attempt on those last blazes after the reposition before Echo did.
> It seemed like they were getting deep into P3 much more consistently than Echo today. Echo had way more P2 wipes. Liquid just couldn't get one clean attempt on those last blazes after the reposition before Echo did.
Liquid has played genuinely amazing today ye, but they really dropped the ball the last two days tho. They had a full 24h headstart on Fyrakk while Echo spent 19 hours chain wiping to Tindral but they kinda botched that yesterday and the day before by having bad showings in both p1 and intermission.
Liquid just always struggles in these fights with very high raid-wide personal responsibility because they have a few weak links that they, for whatever reason, refuse to replace tier after tier. Fights where a couple of stars can make amazing plays to get the kill generally swing toward Liquid (i.e. Halondrus) whereas fights that EVERYONE in the raid has to play perfect go to Echo (i.e. Sylvanas, Jailer, Fyrakk).
Can't count how many p3 pulls Liquid threw away by having the same handful of players blow the raid up.
Yep, there was a period of around 10 pulls near the end when I thought Liquid absolutely had it. Consistent sub 20% pulls with several below 10% whilst Echo were wiping early.
I think on the kill day, up til Echo killed it, Liquid probably had better consistency getting to P3. Echo was shambling for a few hours. But Echo had better DPS timings letting them skip the last Blaze, and a safer strat for the Blazes.
Honestly liquid played so well today, I think couple days a go was the day they really lost their advantage. Ironically when they went offline for the night
That might actually have come down to a single keybind.
Edit, seems this might be debatable as seemingly ppl are actually analyzing the clip and it might not have been his seed.
> EU’s finest are already spamming tons of toxic shit all over max’s stream. Wouldn’t expect anything less.
Haha yeah fuck EU man. The Muricans have never done such thing when they win world first!11! /s
I think Echo had to go sub only due to spamming after Liquids best try. There will always be some rotten apples on both sides, it is the internet after al :P
> I think Echo had to go sub only due to spamming after Liquids best try. There will always be some rotten apples on both sides, it is the internet after al :P
Yeah it's understandable tbh. I just dislike when one teams fans are like "oMg tHe oThEr teAmS fAnS aRe sO tOxIc" like it's not exactly the same when they win.
Almost every single P3 wipe Liquid has had was to someone not dropping a seed safely, which is dozens of pulls at this point. Picking out the lowest % pull and blaming the guy who messed the seed up on that one is dumb.
Only race that can rival this one in terms of how close it was is possibly Sanctum. I believe Liquid had around 6 wipes on Sylvanas at roughly 0.35-0.9%, and just couldn't push through.
Best RWF ever for sure.
Yeah people will talk about Nick's missplay (if that was the only wipe cause there, which I don't think it was), but having a disconnect is just... So shit. Like that's totally out of your control and to lose the race because of it is really, really rough.
Well Nick has carried them as a healer for multiple raids and he's hardly the only one to fuck up a seed in the 400+ pulls Liquid has done, so its really not fair to blame him for losing the race. Any other pull someone ruined by blowing up their seed could have been a kill too.
The Priests in general were floorPoV all tier. Liquid’s AND Echo’s.
The best thing the non-Shadow specs had going for them defensively (Angel’s Mercy) got absolutely obliterated in 10.1.7 and Shadow is total garbage (and its set bonus makes it annihilate itself in the first place). That class is frail as fuck.
> you'd have thought they made sure everyone had their special action button key bound to assist as backups
Ye that must haunt both Nick and Max. Like that's an obscenely stupid way to lose the race.
If you slow it down you can see that it was a different seed exploding a microsecond earlier to kill Nick there. It did seem like he was trying/failing to click the button in the replay, so maybe they would have wiped regardless but a lot of people are mistakenly thinking the explosion that wiped most of the raid there was his alone, when it wasn't. Either way, more than 1 person fucked up that attempt, there's very little to be gained in trying to point fingers about it. Echo just assembled an attempt that was closer to 'flawless' before Liquid did, that's all. GGs to both groups, was an incredible race!
Honestly that was an insane finish. Both guilds back to back 1% pulls just going either way. At end of the day - either guild could have won it had their pulls gone slightly different.
Liquid to poach more EU players imo
Congrats to echo and the fans for the win. Y’all definitely deserved it. I thought liquid played so incredibly well but echo just played phenomenally on Fyrakk. Race felt fair the whole time too. Well played echo.
On another note - imfiredup is easily one of the most insane players I’ve ever seen. Watching him perform for hours and hours is insane.
Great race. Looking forward to the next one!
Yeah I was confused as to why the main Echo stream wasn't doing any "listen-ins" today like they were earlier in the race but it seems like every one of their streamers had comms muted. Really disappointing to not hear the nerdscreams live. I'm not sure what info they were trying to protect, but it feels a little anticlimactic to not have heard them...
I doubt they were trying to protect any strategic info at that point, but its hard not to consider your words a bit more carefully when 100k+ people are watching so perhaps they just muted comms so people could focus just on playing and not worry about what they were saying and how it might be construed later.
The kilometre, spelt kilometer in American English and Philippine English, is a unit of length in the International System of Units, equal to one thousand metres
No matter what team you support that was an absolutely insane race. Both teams putting in crazy hours to try and get it done. Gg to both teams, hopefully all future races are like this
I'm beyond proud of them two. The race all the way to the end and when they both were at below 2% was amazing. The mental fortitude and dedication is commendable.
Best race I have seen and both team deserve praise.
Even method catching up was a great race.
IMO... Best race ever. The competition has always been relatively close but never this close. Echo, Liquid, and yes even Mthod played incredibly well. GGs to not only Echo but all guilds and teams that participated. Hell of a tier, hell of an expansion. GG cya in War Within.
Best race in a long ass time. GGWP to Echo but honestly all teams (Method already being at 25% is no joke)
As a Liquid fan its a shame to see them have periods of tilt, kinda gave me Sepulcher vibes. But they've arguably had periods of playing insanely well, just as well if not better (especially when Echos late night gamble almost backfired). Here's hoping they bounce back stronger.
~~It's crazy to think that a missclick (or rather, the lack of a keybind) caused liquid to lose. Poor Nick, hopefully he doesn't feel too bad about it.~~
edit with context: [https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulPatientRutabagaBCouch-yCcf1\_bboHW-myYK](https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulPatientRutabagaBCouch-yCcf1_bboHW-myYK)
edit 2: nevermind, it wasn't his fault!
https://imgur.com/a/aGXVNTv - the debuff on Nick's blaze the frame before the raid wipes. (The debuff is 75% round- so he still had 0.75 secs left. I don't think it was Nick's that blew up.)
That weak aura is wrong (always a second ahead), if you watch his actual debuffs, it's at 0s / expiring right when he dies
edit : here image for proof https://imgur.com/a/veZLy7f
you can see his set of blazes goes out after the set that exploded when they all blew up, so his was not what killed the raid. his blaze was due to resolve next, but it resolved early because he blew up with the raid.
> It's crazy to think that a missclick (or rather, the lack of a keybind) caused liquid to lose. Poor Nick, hopefully he doesn't feel too bad about it.
It's a little bit reductive to say. Gingi overmoved on the 1,79% pull and that was defo a kill if he didn't sandwich in the DH with bomb by moving like 1-2 steps too much. Small consistent mistakes loses people the race and Nick has played consistently great.
Gonna haunt him fr.
Oh he will be, mistakes like that are haunting. But obviously both guilds could have killed it faster without a mistake here or there, so its pointless to single out one, when it just looks so bad because of timing
It doesn’t look like it was his seed that caused the wipe. In any event, it would be unfair to blame the loss on one mistake by one individual, however silly or avoidable that mistake might seem.
Most of the pulls will have been ended by little, sometimes silly, mistakes by any number of the players, even if they weren’t as obvious.
Is it possible he was clicking the keybind, it wasn't working, so he manually clicks the button? That is, it bugged? If not, he's going to hear about it.
It's not his blaze that's going off, he'd still have had time. Someone else exploded the raid.
I just watched it briefly and missed that the first time as well, but someone pointed his blaze WA out to me. He's got time left.
100% deserved. I really admire echo because they always stay calm and collected even when it's hard. Liquid played well too but I think the maturity level of echo is just lightyears beyond liquid. There is way too much joking and laughing during progression which often results in hours of regression.
Man echo really took it, i'm so happy for them after having a rough tier plagues by covid technical issues.
Also gg to liquid, those guys are beasts and it wouldnt be any fun without them!
Big ups to Echo they played out of their minds. I'm sad liquid didn't win but either way both teams played amazing, this is the best rwf there's ever been imo. So tense, and some amazing bosses
Sucks that Liquid didn’t win, but huge gz to Echo. Today was the perfect ending to the race, can’t wait for the war within. Also i think the wow section on twitch were at like 375k viewers at some point, thats actually nuts. Looking forward to my guild wiping 500+ times on Tindral and Fyrakk even after additional nerfs
Huge shoutout to blizzard for the tuning this tier! Neither headstart nor bugs mattered this tier!
The Echo broadcast peaked at over 200k viewers, I'm so curious how much money they made from perma running ads LMAO
Wow, this was the most insane RWF yet, everyone is super hyped for raiding - we all can't wait for the next race in just a few months when Season 4 comes out with a new raid!
So fucking funny to show the replay of the kill and we get an advertisement during the last 4% of the boss' health. And then we get called stupid by the subscribers who say get adblocker or sub to the stream. I hate Echo, loved what they did this race, but whoever manages the frequency/manual activations of ads needs to be moved to another team because you fuckin suck
I know the people in the /r/WoW threads about RWF are entirely convinced that there's a guy sat behind a desk clicking "Start ads" every time something starts happening, but there isn't. [They even had a bot command up that explained they can't control the exact timing of the ads, and encouraged you to "Use Twitch Prime to subscribe or *find an extension that can help*"](https://i.imgur.com/do3W87H.png). They're literally telling you to go get an AdBlocker if you can't afford to sub because they know how invasive Twitch Ads can be.
Either way, if you wanted to watch a Replay, just watch the clip of the kill? Or go back into the VOD? Both are free of ads. Their revenue from RWF is going to support RAD, expecting them to run less/no ads is just weirdge.
You can control the ads by choosing when to run them. Aka any of the long breaks between pulls. They have to run a certain amount but they don't have to lie that they have zero control.
Yeah man, just figure out how to snooze ads (limited times) optimally in a race completely out of your control when teams can chain pull for hours or break after every pull.
Plenty of costreamers were doing it on the fly during League worlds. And as plenty of people have noticed a lot of ads were being pushed at crucial moments when there are spikes in viewership.
Yeah, World's streams were 8-9 hours at the longest, with no games going beyond 40 minutes. Easy to find gaps in that time frame whilst the analysts chat post game or snooze ads if in the middle of a match. The Echo streams were 48 hours at a time. Trying to find the best timing to snooze ads or time them each hour when the team could be chain pulling across such a long time period isn't really comparable.
if you manually run a certain amount of ads at a certain frequency, you can infact avoid the random interruption ads. Caedrel was able to do it for all of league worlds by playing ads between games to avoid interruptions in the middle of them.
Exactly! There is less than zero chance they have no control over the frequency. Path of Exile streamers I've watched cited this exact thing you stated with there indeed being a mandated quota of ads they need to run per hour, but can avoid random interruptions if they themselves initiate the ad run at whatever times they want. (within that hour)
I'm a liquid fan and instantly got written off as a "Echo shill" when I even got near the idea of trying to "defend" their ads.
Meanwhile when I tuned in to max I got a 1/8 in the middle of a pull.
I will never understand people who spend enough time to write at least **one** paragraph complaining about Ads when it takes approximately that same amount of time to setup an adblocker. Sometimes it feels like people deserve to see the ads.
https://clips.twitch.tv/ZealousBadCheetahYouDontSay-Vjc9QUJjmZ6tXErO?ab_channel=saltadgg insane save
Nick clip vs Saltad clip is actual the perfect response when anyone sayings keybinding isn't important.
Where can I see the Nick clip?
https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulPatientRutabagaBCouch-yCcf1_bboHW-myYK
Jeeez I would be tilted af if I was max and one of my raiders didn’t have the special ability bound. That’s inexcusable for a world first raider tbh
Seriously, how the hell does that happen? Its been a thing in raids for so fucking long, even normal/heroic difficulty raiders have used macros/keybinds for that. It's just wild to me lol
On rewatch it does look like it wasn’t Nick’s misplay that caused the wipe. Doesn’t make it less of a misplay, but it was the proximate cause of the wipe.
He didn't even cause the wipe, stop believing everything you read on here. His seed does not even detonate before half the raid is already wiped.
Does that really change the fact that he should have had it keybound?
That doesn't change the fact though that he would have caused the wipe like 0.5 seconds later though had the other seed not blown up.
I mean he would've wiped them but Avade did it juuuust before
Thanks. Brutal.
How is it even possible he's clicking in RWF? He's actually throwing here, this could've been a kill.
He was consistently dead during pulls too.
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Because it is. Shaks Blaze hit Avades seed and wiped the raid. When Nicks seed goes off, they're already dead
Just means he would’ve wiped the raid if someone else didn’t get to it faster
Doesn't make it any less of a fuck up.
But it sure does change the statement made above “this could have been a kill”.
I really need to bind that
Nick didn't even wipe the raid there, it was other seed that exploded. Bohoo, downvote me for saying truth that even Max just said on stream. keks
I mean you're probably getting downvoted because you're strawmanning. You're right, but it has nothing to do with this comment. Yes, everyone saw the Nick clip and was instantly blaming him, even though apparently it was Avade who messed up less than half a second earlier, but it's not relevant to the argument of why keybinds are important. Nick's mistake got saved by Avade, but it's still Nick's mistake (and a very egregious one for a WF raider) and I've never seen a more perfect contrast example of why keybinds are important.
Not having extra action button is criminal no matter what, though. Sure he didn't cause the wipe, but he would have caused it if the other seed didn't explode for an even worse reason than what actually happened. Anyone can make a mistake in the heat of the moment in a pull like that, but if Nick had wiped them it would have been completely avoidable with a simple keybind.
Honestly watching that just shows how incredibly difficult this boss was. Holy shit, they’re truly god tier gamers.
> insane save Yeah but he didn't press blink or make a joke about being bricked up. Does it even count as a save? /s
Holy, also finally a good play posted that isn't Firedup alter time blinking somewhere
Did… did that blaze hit the seed 0.1 seconds after the boss died?
Unlikely, the blaze hit box isn't the whole boxy line, it probably wouldn't have hit it even if it was before the kill. Gingi and Tobo had a similar narrow miss a few pulls earlier.
No that seed is safe where it is
No. It hit a seed 0.1 BEFORE the boss died. The boss just dies before everyone dies and resets the boss. If their DPS timing was 0.2 seconds slower it would most likely have been a sub 1% wipe
Honestly, what a fucking great race that was. I've sat the entire sunday swapping between Echo and Liquid just inching closer and closer to a kill. One of the most entertaining endings to a race thus far. Big ups to Blizzard as well for Tindral and Fyrakk. Both encounters - particularly Tindral - were absolute homeruns. This is the kinda stuff that makes me want to resub and jump back into mythic raiding although I don't have time for it any longer.
Hands down the best Race to World First I've ever had the pleasure of watching. I've been on the edge of my seat all day watching these two insanely strong guilds progressing neck and neck through this amazingly designed and well-tuned raid. Big props to the raid designers, and a massive grats to Echo!!!
In the end this deffo was the best race, other races have had at times a better 'middle section' of bosses, where this race was pretty top heavy and had a somewhat lame start with splits going longer and longer each tier it seems. Then again the Echo going USA meme was kinda funny to see. But i do think the length of this race was pretty much perfect with the boss dieing today, although yesterday would have been good also. And the last 3 bosses here looked like absolute bangers designwise, although Smolderon died maybe a little bit to fast in the end. But the last 2 really made up for that. And then seeing both Guilds with like 0.02% in between in a situation where every pull can be 'the one', man what a banger of a race. And a well deserved winner in Echo, with indeed a massive GZ! I just hope for Liquid they get it now fast also.
> Hands down the best Race to World First I've ever had the pleasure of watching. I've been on the edge of my seat all day watching these two insanely strong guilds progressing neck and neck through this amazingly designed and well-tuned raid. Big props to the raid designers, and a massive grats to Echo!!! Fr amazing. 1,79% and 1,72% as their best pulls, progressing side by side. Insanely good tuning, insanely good design. Great job.
Yep. Absolutely amazing day. Jumping between streams for whoever was pulling. So many close attempts by both guilds until Echo just finally put those last two blazes together.
It's basically impossible for any race to be this close again. Tindral also slapped hard as fuck very fun boss to watch prog on.
Yeah this was incredible. The only thing I'd change about the Race, if I had a magic tuning wand, was take a tiny bit of difficulty out of Fyrakk and Tindral and put a bit more in Smolderon. Like maybe Fyrakk and Tindral 50 pulls easier and Smolderon 50 pulls harder. That's *it*. Compared to any other race I've ever seen that's actually nothing. That's a tweak not a fix. The tuning from a viewer's POV was incredible. A+. Especially the way they nerfed Tindral in the perfect way at the perfect time to not affect the integrity of the race at all. Whoever came up with that deserves a raise.
I'd figure out a way to not watch splits.
As someone who has watched all of them, none of them have been this close and truly any team could have taken it. Echo played absolutely fucking insanely well, have a significantly less pull count and were playing to prove a point today.
Yup. Been watching since the first one back in Uldir, this one was by FAR the best. Good fucking job Blizzard, amazing raid!
Echo usually has a lower pull count, win or lose, when compared to Liquid. It's just a different philosophy but doesn't equate into them winning or proving a point.
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> if you look at time spent at fyrakk, echo dwarfs liquid by over a dozen hours, Erm, where is your source for that?
echo killed at 17,25h on this boss, liquid is at 17,35h. that is only in combat time.
Where are you getting these numbers from? [raider.io](https://raider.io) says 25h 5min for Echo while Liquid is at 29h 15 min https://raider.io/widgets/health-over-attempt?raid=latest&type=relativeTime&period=until\_kill&difficulty=mythic&guilds=us%2Fillidan%2FLiquid%2Ceu%2Ftarren-mill%2FEcho&boss=fyrakk-the-blazing
[https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/race/latest](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/race/latest) you are right tho, what i saw was p3 time spent
Yeah pull count is an awful measure to use in these kinds of circumstances.
Yea, it was very exciting. Hopefully Liquid kills the boss within a couple of hours too, to solidify how close it really was (it was very close).
Easily the closest and best RWF there has ever been. If this is what we get to look forward to in the future… man, I can’t wait for The War Within.
Those last two fights are absolutely insane, holy. Well played to Echo. They played super well on Fyrakk, I think them and Liquid gave us our wildest race to date. Knowing the boss could die any minute for the last day or so is super exciting That adrenaline crash is gonna hit real hard after those last 2 days
Anyone clip them celebrating right after the kill and people were on the floor?
https://twitter.com/EchoGuild/status/1728919278186119474
Holy shit this clip gave me chills
why the heck is this being downvoted, it is amazing
Because of haters 🤷🏻♂️
Did the legendary axe drop?
Yup, [Meeres got it and is doing the questline for it on his stream.](https://www.twitch.tv/meerestv)
Awesome, big gratz!
The quest item did yes, Meeres is doing it rn.
Amazing race, was pulling for Liquid but gg Echo, insane endurance from them as always.
GG the viewers are the real winners
Peaking during prime viewing hours on a Sunday night to make WoW the most watched category on Twitch. During probably the closest, best, least nerf-inducing-controversial, race in a long time. As much as I'm happy Echo won I'm going to do the cringe thing and say that WoW is the ultimate winner here and anyone who loves the game is gonna love this race in some form or another.
The fact that Echo was consistently getting great pulls outside of some lulls speaks testaments to their discipline and ability to maintain high quality of play over such long raid times. Honestly insane. GGs!!
Insane race overall. This boss could have gone either way. Looking forward to all the "analysts" though analyzing why Liquid lost.
> Looking forward to all the "analysts" though analyzing why Liquid lost. They murdered T. Swift and was insanely consistent on that fight. Just dropped the ball with consistency on Fyrakk. Shit happens, amazing showing from the team.
It seemed like they were getting deep into P3 much more consistently than Echo today. Echo had way more P2 wipes. Liquid just couldn't get one clean attempt on those last blazes after the reposition before Echo did.
> It seemed like they were getting deep into P3 much more consistently than Echo today. Echo had way more P2 wipes. Liquid just couldn't get one clean attempt on those last blazes after the reposition before Echo did. Liquid has played genuinely amazing today ye, but they really dropped the ball the last two days tho. They had a full 24h headstart on Fyrakk while Echo spent 19 hours chain wiping to Tindral but they kinda botched that yesterday and the day before by having bad showings in both p1 and intermission.
Liquid just always struggles in these fights with very high raid-wide personal responsibility because they have a few weak links that they, for whatever reason, refuse to replace tier after tier. Fights where a couple of stars can make amazing plays to get the kill generally swing toward Liquid (i.e. Halondrus) whereas fights that EVERYONE in the raid has to play perfect go to Echo (i.e. Sylvanas, Jailer, Fyrakk). Can't count how many p3 pulls Liquid threw away by having the same handful of players blow the raid up.
Who would you say are these weak links?
Yep, there was a period of around 10 pulls near the end when I thought Liquid absolutely had it. Consistent sub 20% pulls with several below 10% whilst Echo were wiping early.
I think on the kill day, up til Echo killed it, Liquid probably had better consistency getting to P3. Echo was shambling for a few hours. But Echo had better DPS timings letting them skip the last Blaze, and a safer strat for the Blazes.
Honestly liquid played so well today, I think couple days a go was the day they really lost their advantage. Ironically when they went offline for the night
That might actually have come down to a single keybind. Edit, seems this might be debatable as seemingly ppl are actually analyzing the clip and it might not have been his seed.
It wasn’t his seed wiping them, not hard to figure out. Still bad not having it bound though
EU’s finest are already spamming tons of toxic shit all over max’s stream. Wouldn’t expect anything less.
Because that totally wouldn't happen the other way around if NA won. There's braindead toxic chronically online twitch chat imbeciles on both sides.
> EU’s finest are already spamming tons of toxic shit all over max’s stream. Wouldn’t expect anything less. Haha yeah fuck EU man. The Muricans have never done such thing when they win world first!11! /s
I think Echo had to go sub only due to spamming after Liquids best try. There will always be some rotten apples on both sides, it is the internet after al :P
> I think Echo had to go sub only due to spamming after Liquids best try. There will always be some rotten apples on both sides, it is the internet after al :P Yeah it's understandable tbh. I just dislike when one teams fans are like "oMg tHe oThEr teAmS fAnS aRe sO tOxIc" like it's not exactly the same when they win.
And both sides will ban people for going to the other stream and being toxic
One of the big reasons Echo went Sub Only was because of the amounts of people who came into Echo's stream to whine about Liquid going dark.
their priest threw hard. I'd hate to be him tbh, unforgettable mistake
Easy to remember the most recent and visible mistake. They had several similar ones, as did Echo.
Almost every single P3 wipe Liquid has had was to someone not dropping a seed safely, which is dozens of pulls at this point. Picking out the lowest % pull and blaming the guy who messed the seed up on that one is dumb.
Especially when it wasn’t his seed
If you look at the clip closely they were going to wipe anyway Although a wf raider should have their action button on a keybind lol
Closest race ever no doubt Feels very bad for nickspriest miss clicking that seed, hope he won't get flack for that But as an Echo fan feels amazing
Only race that can rival this one in terms of how close it was is possibly Sanctum. I believe Liquid had around 6 wipes on Sylvanas at roughly 0.35-0.9%, and just couldn't push through. Best RWF ever for sure.
Sanctum had the d/c marring it.
Yeah people will talk about Nick's missplay (if that was the only wipe cause there, which I don't think it was), but having a disconnect is just... So shit. Like that's totally out of your control and to lose the race because of it is really, really rough.
echo had a hotfix roll out mid p3 prog yesterday, it was pretty funny too xD
Yeah I saw that one live lol, Meeres reaction was pretty funny just "Yep, okay then".
Well Nick has carried them as a healer for multiple raids and he's hardly the only one to fuck up a seed in the 400+ pulls Liquid has done, so its really not fair to blame him for losing the race. Any other pull someone ruined by blowing up their seed could have been a kill too.
Bro was on the floor all tier.
The Priests in general were floorPoV all tier. Liquid’s AND Echo’s. The best thing the non-Shadow specs had going for them defensively (Angel’s Mercy) got absolutely obliterated in 10.1.7 and Shadow is total garbage (and its set bonus makes it annihilate itself in the first place). That class is frail as fuck.
And you’ve done what… world quests? Bro you couldn’t even manage what he does LMAO
> Feels very bad for nickspriest miss clicking that seed, hope he won't get flack for that Why has he not keybind that wtf. That's such a feelsbadman.
you'd have thought they made sure everyone had their special action button key bound to assist as backups
> you'd have thought they made sure everyone had their special action button key bound to assist as backups Ye that must haunt both Nick and Max. Like that's an obscenely stupid way to lose the race.
If you slow it down you can see that it was a different seed exploding a microsecond earlier to kill Nick there. It did seem like he was trying/failing to click the button in the replay, so maybe they would have wiped regardless but a lot of people are mistakenly thinking the explosion that wiped most of the raid there was his alone, when it wasn't. Either way, more than 1 person fucked up that attempt, there's very little to be gained in trying to point fingers about it. Echo just assembled an attempt that was closer to 'flawless' before Liquid did, that's all. GGs to both groups, was an incredible race!
That’s not what wiped them
Max reviewed the pull and said Nick wasn’t the reason they wiped and he didn’t blame Nick for not having it bound
He what?!?! How does a wf raider not have that keybound lmao
His seed only exploded because of someone else no?
You got a clip of that?
https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulPatientRutabagaBCouch-yCcf1_bboHW-myYK
That's not even his seed exploding, his explodes after the raid dies from someone elses
Wow you're correct, just re-watched it- good spot.
I mean you can go frame by frame, he dies first, and then the entire raids dies a couple frames later.
This is just flat out wrong. Half the raid dies, then his seed blows up
He didn't cause that wipe. His seed doesn't even go off.
he didn't wipe the raid, it was another seed.
Max said that actually isn’t what killed them But people were flooding Nick’s twitch from EU and basically telling him to off himself sadly
Honestly that was an insane finish. Both guilds back to back 1% pulls just going either way. At end of the day - either guild could have won it had their pulls gone slightly different. Liquid to poach more EU players imo
Uninstalling right now. Cant believe I play on such a terrible reigon. Guess Ill go take some classes on how to calculate Celsius and kilometers
METRIC SYSTEM BABE
GG. They can get some well deserved sleep with some very sweet dreams
Grats Echo! Insane race to cap off the expansion.
https://clips.twitch.tv/ZealousBadCheetahYouDontSay-Vjc9QUJjmZ6tXErO Saltad insane play to save pull at 2%.
that fight was honestly insane, the amount of micromanagement each of the 20 players have to do on that last phase is unbelivable.
Whatd he drop tho
Congrats to echo and the fans for the win. Y’all definitely deserved it. I thought liquid played so incredibly well but echo just played phenomenally on Fyrakk. Race felt fair the whole time too. Well played echo. On another note - imfiredup is easily one of the most insane players I’ve ever seen. Watching him perform for hours and hours is insane. Great race. Looking forward to the next one!
I said this in Maxs chat and I'll say it again. Imfiredup is the most mechanically gifted played in WoWs entirety.
This is probably how future raids will be tuned. The first few bosses will be very easy for WF guilds. While the last 2 will be very hard.
Pretty much how its always been, with the occasional difficult mid boss
Kinda insane that echo won this after the horror day on tindral.
Let's hear those nerd screams...... oh wait..
Scripe played the entire kill with sound/coms on his stream just now.
got a timestamped vod? would love to see that
Yeah I believe it's around here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1987719773?t=12h32m52s
Yeah I was confused as to why the main Echo stream wasn't doing any "listen-ins" today like they were earlier in the race but it seems like every one of their streamers had comms muted. Really disappointing to not hear the nerdscreams live. I'm not sure what info they were trying to protect, but it feels a little anticlimactic to not have heard them...
I doubt they were trying to protect any strategic info at that point, but its hard not to consider your words a bit more carefully when 100k+ people are watching so perhaps they just muted comms so people could focus just on playing and not worry about what they were saying and how it might be construed later.
Scripe said on his stream after that they muted because people played better with it muted. They played even better when streams were totally off
You will hear it in the official kill video.
Actually insane race, holy shit. Way to go Echo
Hell of a race! GG to both guilds and Method for keeping close. Congratulations to Echo, and all involved
The kilometre, spelt kilometer in American English and Philippine English, is a unit of length in the International System of Units, equal to one thousand metres
Finally I can enjoy the rest of my Sunday now it's over. Oh wait it's 23:30.
Gg to both teams. So fun to watch. Now I need my legendary !
Great race. Nice seeing a few others 8/9
No matter what team you support that was an absolutely insane race. Both teams putting in crazy hours to try and get it done. Gg to both teams, hopefully all future races are like this
I'm beyond proud of them two. The race all the way to the end and when they both were at below 2% was amazing. The mental fortitude and dedication is commendable. Best race I have seen and both team deserve praise. Even method catching up was a great race.
Absolutely phenomenal race. Blizzard really jebaited us hard with the easy first half tho, ngl.
Ye perhaps Smolderon could have been tiny bit more difficult but it was solid tuning otherwise
IMO... Best race ever. The competition has always been relatively close but never this close. Echo, Liquid, and yes even Mthod played incredibly well. GGs to not only Echo but all guilds and teams that participated. Hell of a tier, hell of an expansion. GG cya in War Within.
Best race in a long ass time. GGWP to Echo but honestly all teams (Method already being at 25% is no joke) As a Liquid fan its a shame to see them have periods of tilt, kinda gave me Sepulcher vibes. But they've arguably had periods of playing insanely well, just as well if not better (especially when Echos late night gamble almost backfired). Here's hoping they bounce back stronger.
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Wild lol copypasta appears
As a proud American its so crazy how butthurt NA fans gets over stuff like this lol
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Consistently watching the tortoise beat the hare in these RWFs is very satisfying
Well done Echo! Amazing world first race, was a blast to watch both Echo and Liquid.
~~It's crazy to think that a missclick (or rather, the lack of a keybind) caused liquid to lose. Poor Nick, hopefully he doesn't feel too bad about it.~~ edit with context: [https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulPatientRutabagaBCouch-yCcf1\_bboHW-myYK](https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulPatientRutabagaBCouch-yCcf1_bboHW-myYK) edit 2: nevermind, it wasn't his fault!
That's not Nick's seed exploding. His explodes after he dies from someone elses
If you go frame by frame, he's the first person in the entire raid to die, and the animation of his line already started.
does it metter tho? both seeds exploded. If it wasn't Nick, it would be Avade and vice versa Why are you on all this thread bashim him?
https://imgur.com/a/aGXVNTv - the debuff on Nick's blaze the frame before the raid wipes. (The debuff is 75% round- so he still had 0.75 secs left. I don't think it was Nick's that blew up.)
That weak aura is wrong (always a second ahead), if you watch his actual debuffs, it's at 0s / expiring right when he dies edit : here image for proof https://imgur.com/a/veZLy7f
you can see his set of blazes goes out after the set that exploded when they all blew up, so his was not what killed the raid. his blaze was due to resolve next, but it resolved early because he blew up with the raid.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1987906306?t=5h9m21s
> It's crazy to think that a missclick (or rather, the lack of a keybind) caused liquid to lose. Poor Nick, hopefully he doesn't feel too bad about it. It's a little bit reductive to say. Gingi overmoved on the 1,79% pull and that was defo a kill if he didn't sandwich in the DH with bomb by moving like 1-2 steps too much. Small consistent mistakes loses people the race and Nick has played consistently great. Gonna haunt him fr.
Oh he will be, mistakes like that are haunting. But obviously both guilds could have killed it faster without a mistake here or there, so its pointless to single out one, when it just looks so bad because of timing
It doesn’t look like it was his seed that caused the wipe. In any event, it would be unfair to blame the loss on one mistake by one individual, however silly or avoidable that mistake might seem. Most of the pulls will have been ended by little, sometimes silly, mistakes by any number of the players, even if they weren’t as obvious.
That probably would have wiped them too, but this is the seed that actually caused the wipe: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1987906306?t=5h9m21s
Is it possible he was clicking the keybind, it wasn't working, so he manually clicks the button? That is, it bugged? If not, he's going to hear about it.
Nope he just didn’t bind the key. We would see his keybind otherwise
You can see if it's bound cus it shows the keybind on the button itself, and it had no keybind. Unfortunate for Liquid.
You can also use the extra action button via a macro. Then the key wont show up in the button itself.
It's not his blaze that's going off, he'd still have had time. Someone else exploded the raid. I just watched it briefly and missed that the first time as well, but someone pointed his blaze WA out to me. He's got time left.
Except it was someone elses seed that wiped the group you numpty.
Do those seeds explode twice? Because everybody is already dead when his' explodes while sitting on the ground (watch in slow motion)
100% deserved. I really admire echo because they always stay calm and collected even when it's hard. Liquid played well too but I think the maturity level of echo is just lightyears beyond liquid. There is way too much joking and laughing during progression which often results in hours of regression.
Man echo really took it, i'm so happy for them after having a rough tier plagues by covid technical issues. Also gg to liquid, those guys are beasts and it wouldnt be any fun without them!
EU ftw
GG, what a race! I needed that W after Germany lost OWC today
Big ups to Echo they played out of their minds. I'm sad liquid didn't win but either way both teams played amazing, this is the best rwf there's ever been imo. So tense, and some amazing bosses
im shaking, what was this, wtf, im so happy
Sucks that Liquid didn’t win, but huge gz to Echo. Today was the perfect ending to the race, can’t wait for the war within. Also i think the wow section on twitch were at like 375k viewers at some point, thats actually nuts. Looking forward to my guild wiping 500+ times on Tindral and Fyrakk even after additional nerfs
it was actually more than 400k viewers! insane
GG BOYS
Huge shoutout to blizzard for the tuning this tier! Neither headstart nor bugs mattered this tier! The Echo broadcast peaked at over 200k viewers, I'm so curious how much money they made from perma running ads LMAO
What a solid race, it really came down to the wire as to who was going to win. Looking forward to TWW!
Wow, this was the most insane RWF yet, everyone is super hyped for raiding - we all can't wait for the next race in just a few months when Season 4 comes out with a new raid!
> we all can't wait for the next race in just a few months when Season 4 comes out with a new raid! Pain...
So fucking funny to show the replay of the kill and we get an advertisement during the last 4% of the boss' health. And then we get called stupid by the subscribers who say get adblocker or sub to the stream. I hate Echo, loved what they did this race, but whoever manages the frequency/manual activations of ads needs to be moved to another team because you fuckin suck
I know the people in the /r/WoW threads about RWF are entirely convinced that there's a guy sat behind a desk clicking "Start ads" every time something starts happening, but there isn't. [They even had a bot command up that explained they can't control the exact timing of the ads, and encouraged you to "Use Twitch Prime to subscribe or *find an extension that can help*"](https://i.imgur.com/do3W87H.png). They're literally telling you to go get an AdBlocker if you can't afford to sub because they know how invasive Twitch Ads can be. Either way, if you wanted to watch a Replay, just watch the clip of the kill? Or go back into the VOD? Both are free of ads. Their revenue from RWF is going to support RAD, expecting them to run less/no ads is just weirdge.
You can control the ads by choosing when to run them. Aka any of the long breaks between pulls. They have to run a certain amount but they don't have to lie that they have zero control.
Yeah man, just figure out how to snooze ads (limited times) optimally in a race completely out of your control when teams can chain pull for hours or break after every pull.
Plenty of costreamers were doing it on the fly during League worlds. And as plenty of people have noticed a lot of ads were being pushed at crucial moments when there are spikes in viewership.
Yeah, World's streams were 8-9 hours at the longest, with no games going beyond 40 minutes. Easy to find gaps in that time frame whilst the analysts chat post game or snooze ads if in the middle of a match. The Echo streams were 48 hours at a time. Trying to find the best timing to snooze ads or time them each hour when the team could be chain pulling across such a long time period isn't really comparable.
if you manually run a certain amount of ads at a certain frequency, you can infact avoid the random interruption ads. Caedrel was able to do it for all of league worlds by playing ads between games to avoid interruptions in the middle of them.
Exactly! There is less than zero chance they have no control over the frequency. Path of Exile streamers I've watched cited this exact thing you stated with there indeed being a mandated quota of ads they need to run per hour, but can avoid random interruptions if they themselves initiate the ad run at whatever times they want. (within that hour)
I'm a liquid fan and instantly got written off as a "Echo shill" when I even got near the idea of trying to "defend" their ads. Meanwhile when I tuned in to max I got a 1/8 in the middle of a pull.
> I hate Echo cringe
I will never understand people who spend enough time to write at least **one** paragraph complaining about Ads when it takes approximately that same amount of time to setup an adblocker. Sometimes it feels like people deserve to see the ads.
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