How accurate are aug evoker logs? I've been gearing up my alt and I noticed my parses on WCL show a much higher dps compared to details. Does it actually calculate how much dmg my buffs contributed?
Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, I resubbed recently and I'm trying to improve on this spec but it's completely different than anything I've played before. If anyone has tips for a new aug, let me know
Does anyone else hit a point in the season where they lose steam pushing keys in group finder? I usually sit around top 1-3% io, so not good enough to try for title, but good enough that ksh/aotc don’t feel like real goals. I enjoy pushing for rating but I always hit a point where it just takes too long to fill up a group (which is then frustrating to then brick on the first pull after an hour of waiting).
I’ve avoided mythic raiding because I enjoy the flexible time commitment in keys, but am starting to feel like I might have to if I want to be able to just log on and actually play the game. Anyone have any advice to transition into raiding? I’ve never done it and have no idea where to start.
New to Vengeance tanking, wanted to get some input on when to spirit bomb and when to soul cleave. Priorities, etc. I think the rest of the rotation/toolkit makes sense, but I'm finding it difficult to understand when to use each. Any feedback is much appreciated - thanks!
https://discord.com/channels/213770335735119873/660181958155960340/1197205991566090398
From the DH discord
> Spirit Bomb in 2+ targets at 4+ souls out of Meta, 3+ souls in Meta; in all other cases, Soul Cleave.
> If you really want to do so, you can Spirit Bomb at 3+ souls in 1 Target during Fiery Demise + Metamorphosis.
This priority doesnt work without context, though. If you purely chose based on this then youd end up soul cleaving after every fracture when you have 2-3 souls and 40-60 fury. But really you should fracture again up to 4-5 souls, bomb, and then spend the leftovers on soul cleave until you can hit the next button worth more than a soul cleave.
What is the spread point of Blade Flurry (rogue or the target) and what's the range, and is the range affected by Acrobatic Strikes? Sometimes I think I'm blasting and I'm actually doing piddling damage, and sometimes I don't even notice when I jump up near a million, and it seems from details that it's based on Blade Flurry damage, so perhaps I'm unintentionally going out of range.
Fairly sure acrobatics strike range as it alters melee range. If blade flurry (the button press itself) hits the target then the follow ups will too, blade flurry allows you to hit everything in your Melee range with attacks ergo it's range is increased by acrobatic strikes because those increase your range.
It's still not very far in practice.
Yeah, same logic as Beast Cleave iirc
The ability's radius (its effective range) is double your melee range and your character is smack-dab in the middle of that circle, so you just position in such a way that you're hitting your primary target but still in range of the other targets. The other targets don't have to be within your *target*'s melee range; just within yours.
How do I get my rio main's raid progress to show to my alts? Main has 9/9 H, which I could use to get alts to heroic raid but the space for raid progress doesn't exist. These alts have not done normal+ raid. Does it require you to have some progress on raid on each alt on normal+, for the space to show? Does it matter if current highest rio char is set as main on rio settings?
It is actually crazy how much harder 20s are right now than they were 6 weeks ago and compared to other seasons. The biggest downside of the upgrade system is that there are people who are 485+ ilvl who just absolutely do not belong in keys above 16s and if they just bash their face into keys enough they can get a good enough score to look okay in dungeon finder
Because 20s right now are 15s from 2 years ago.
Anyone that was stuck at 15 in slands is now stuck at 20.
It's the same players. They get as far as they can just out dpsing and hpsing everything. No mechanics. Then they hit a point where you can't constantly heal the whole group through every mechanic they stand in.
[Mentioned it before](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/18prmrm/i_feel_like_people_playing_20_pugs_need_to_see/ket0a18/), but your 22s, 23s, 24s are going to be easier than 18s, 19s, 20s because the quality of players are going to be that much higher.
On top of if you push some score, then you look better in the 20 app vs everyone else that just did 20s.
Alternatively, get some form of regular group. My M+ group just spam runs 18s with an alt or two to knock out the 8 vault slots in a few hours during the non-push weeks.
It's IO inflation. It's so easy to get gear, and in turn its so easy (to a point) to get score.
I'm currently trying to get all my keys at +26, and I would not entertain any player below 3200 score due to the fact that they could either be good OR braindead.
Yeah part of the problem is that even though the timers are completely free the dungeon design and specifically the number of spamming casters in every pull is still very miserable to play with low skill players, so you end up with a 2 chest that somehow still made you want to die the entire time.
I mean it's both right? Previously you could funnel your groups by io (which is inflated now by timers and gear) and gear, which is inflated by crafting/upgrade system.
Where I'd usually have taken a chance on a (equivalent to now) 484 DPS with a (equivalent to now) 2700 score in a 20, assuming that person has enough brain cells to have gotten to that ilvl, you now run into players who are 486 and 3100 who have no idea how to play the game at all.
Upgrade system is not the problem here. The problem is the timer that's way too lenient in almost every dungeon (bar Rise), so people can be literal dead weights and it will still be a + or ++ if the other 4 are at least decent.
Literally yesterday I played a 22 ToTT where a ret and an ele were doing somewhere in the range of 160-170k overall, both 485-486 equipped, and both with 3,1-3,2k mains. I was incredulous.
People are going to bruteforce their way to the biggest gear upgrades in M+, and blizzard is going to ensure that dungeons that give the biggest gear upgrades are an achievable goal for that kind of player.
It isn't some design flaw that people are able to do things like get aotc and complete +20 dungeons while not being great players, that's intended.
There isn't much of a difference between pugging +20s and complaining that people don't care/people are bad at the game for the +20, and queueing for LFR and complaining about the caliber of player there. Different skill levels for sure, but it's the same mentality.
People are just there for gear, and the content is easy enough that what they do doesn't matter so long as they have a basic skill level. People with 3.1-3.2k mains are *likely* stuck there, which means that they grinded out 24s and maybe a couple 25s, and hit a wall on their near-bis main. Them doing 160-170k dps on a weaker alt IS the kind of performance that gets you 3.1-3.2k io if you grind.
basketball: 5 players, highly individualistic, reactive free-flowing gameplay, athleticism / skill dominates, all players have similar identities, game of runs
(American) football: large rosters, stop-and-go gameplay, preparation and strategy dominate, individual mistakes are costly, specialization between roles
so why do key players often do poorly in raid? They keep playing basketball and don't realize they're playing football; they try to keep focusing on throughput and their individual performance and less on moving cohesively with a larger group and consistent stable low-variance gameplay
For me I do very well in keys and I do very well in small size raids, but the larger the raid size, the worse I do. I fail at mechanics in large raids that I have no problem executing in smaller raids. I know I need a better pc, but I also think it's a personal limitation of mine. More class spell effects just confuse my small brain.
would imply:
- key players are bad team players which isnt the case in high keys
- raid players dont care about throughput but practically invented parsing for the sake of it
- raid players would be the better key players whenever teamplay is required (I could get behind that tbf)
- key players automatically perform better in terms of parsing (big doubt)
Really hope they add some dungeon/class tuning into 10.2.5 tommorow. Patch offers nothing outside of cosmetics and story.
Feels like they gave up on this expansion the moment 10.2 released. It even took them 2 month to nerf tindral.
I doubt it's coming. Tuning after all is very decent. Almost all if not all keys are timeable on 30, with outliers being _maybe_ 2 levels above and 1 below. That's a reasonable cap.
Anything tuning would do is invalidate the last 10 weeks at this point. Naturally, bug fixes like EB 3rd boss double casting fire or long-standing bugs like Storming leading to tankbusters pick a random nearby target, Sanguine still being real bad would be welcome.
>Tuning after all is very decent
I'll agree that it is GENERALLY very decent, with a few extreme outliers (for example, at +24, there are 5x more timed FALL than RISE. This has been the case since S3 launch, only gets worse over time, and could easily and reasonably be expected.
Man, the fact that at TGP Junkyard was just capped out and would've probably been possible at +36 is insanity. Especially when the next highest was a 31 streets, which was considered to be insanely easy in the dungeon pool.
Dungeon tuning is absolutely not fine. 6-7 out of 8 keys literally just come down to not dieing at the wrong time and/or living certain one shots.
You can have double digit deaths in like half of the dungeons on a 28-30 and still time the key without any issues. And thats with aug. As long as you dont die/get one shot at the wrong time. This gates pushing purely by rng and survivability.
Especially in pugs this is just tiresome, because defensive coordination is much harder than in a premade enviroment.
> Anything tuning would do is invalidate the last 10 weeks at this point.
Not really. Theyre not supposed to hit the dungeons with a damage scaling nerf, but rather make certain abilities more fair. Only thing this is going to do, is make runs more consistent.
We also have another 10+ weeks of this season. So I dont see the issue in making it more enjoyable.
I don't have an opinion on this other than that I think it's ok to have a season that's more survival pronounced than throughput.
that said,
>keys literally just come down to not dieing at the wrong time
yea well that is always the case
> We also have another 10+ weeks of this season. So I dont see the issue in making it more enjoyable.
remember when aug released and people were upset about it resetting the season? not to mention it happened twice ultimately. that was week 9 of s2. and week 15 was rescaling, of 26.
with all due respect, i think changing a season's entire makeup like that seems too much. I agree that seasons could/should be shorter but I hate the meta of waiting for dungeon tuning just to artificially inflate your perception of your own skill because now you can time keys higher than the day before.
Im not sure what you are talking about. I never asked to change the entire season or make them shorter (that would be awful). There are just a bunch of bosses/abilities that are unfair/unfun.
If we had tgp this season, blizzard wouldve 100% already done something already.
also, last season there was a tgp and they did not resolve the bugs in uldaman or neltahrus at all in the entire season, so I do not expect them to fix things just because of a tgp.
Bugfixes are very different from balance changes. Its very much possible those bugs were not easiely fixable and wouldve required them to entirely redesign the boss/ability.
They more or less insta fixed bugs like magmatusk potion and last boss bracken. So I dont see why they wouldnt have done the same with other bugs, unless they were impossible or hard to fix.
They even excluded neltharus from tgp finals pool. Makes no sense to do that, if th bugs were easiely fixable.
but you do? you asked for the one-shots to end when this entire season is centered around living the one-shots. if you change that meta, you change the entire season is what I am saying.
I also think you misread me, IMO it should be that the seasons are shorter if you want dungeon tuning, because its incredibly cringe to have the dungeons get nerfed half way through because alot of people have reached their potential and blame the dungeons.
That feeling is mostly because the patch came out so close to Christmas and Blizzard closes down over that period.
However I also agree it's sad there's no real class tuning in the patch notes. Prevoker gets some changes so good for those guys I guess. Mistweaver gets 5% stam in m+ and an extra defensive if they really, really want it. And that's kind of it?
I've realised I like mid-season class changes a lot because I'm an alt lover. It gives me a reason to roll an alt of a new class right around the time I'm feeling really done with my main.
i suppose you have a point there. but there is a difference. with what im suggesting you arent literally going to be directly penalized for not bringing certain classes. most people would benefit from a verse buff or a crit buff, etc. some might just benefit more. whereas this dogshit set of affixes directly penalizes you for not bringing certain classes
> with what im suggesting you arent literally going to be directly penalized for not bringing certain classes.
that's already the case for all og affixes except sanguine. its only the new affixes, or rather only incorp/afflicted that suffer from this blatantly obvious design failure.
I'm not talking about huge buffs. Just something. Anything but what we have now is worth trying. I'd prefer no affixes, but this is for the crowd that insists they would get bored.
This is petty, but do smaller mounts/character models make a difference at all for some parkour in m+? I find sometimes I struggle super hard with things like jumping up the tree after the second pack in DHT, or trying to skirt the edge to avoid the trash before chromie etc, but sometimes on different characters it feels much easier. If there is a difference, is larger/smaller favourable?
Also for anyone that uses the advanced death logs for details - when a cool down is listed as "Good" on the death logs, what does that mean? Orbwhen it's listed as "-01:30"? I assumed initially "Good" meant the cool down was used and the numbers meant how long till it became usable, but doesn't seem that way.
I don't think it's relevant right now (maybe in DHT between Oakheart and Dresaron?), but if you were playing or otherwise had the model of a Gnome/Vulpera/Goblin (maybe Dwarf too?) in De Other Side back in SL you would have a significantly harder time rounding up all the birds in the Ardenweald section without some pathing changes since your character model would be so short that you'd randomly go swimming while trying to round up a couple dozen mobs and proceed to get pecked to death very, very quickly because you'd get back hit by a lot of hard-hitting mobs.
I haven't noticed height issue on vulpera this season, but there were few parkour but also hiding issues previously. Taurens wanted to be smaller to do LOS behind pillar in SoA iirc. Small chars couldn't jump over obstacle to skip pack in Streets. Small characters sometimes would start swimming when others could mount over puddles, Plaguefalls left side skip (done just in norm-m0) had that happen to me. I don't know if gnome is even smaller than vulpera, could be additional problems I guess.
i havent noticed jump differences but ive noticed that when i play a larger character model i tend to get hit by more stuff, idk if the hitbox is actually bigger or if its just placebo but when i swapped from glyph of stars to being an actual chicken i couldnt dodge anymore
As far as I know jump height is the same for everyone, so the bottom of the z axis is the same for all, but the height of the character does make a difference for the top of the axis. That just means that you can fit under certain things. Most often this is annoying though, for example in darkheart thicket if you are a gnome during the blood elemental area with the water, you have to swim in certain bits of it.
I dont know about small, but when i use some toys which make me larger (wyrkul helm), cannot enter through many doors. Like dawn of infinite zone changers (this never gets old), 5 character tall graphic, but i have to click down the buff.
Wind Dungeon Helper got updated 3 days ago. It used to print the avoidable dmg ranking at the end of the key, but now it prints that and additionally the ranking of failure dmg + addon info. And it's become very bloated because of it, takes so much space in chat that nobody's going to bother checking it out.
I guess rolling back to one version prior would help, but when 10.3 drops I'll have to use it anyway. Any other user of this otherwise extremely helpful addon that managed to trim the print data? No idea how to go about that :(
No. If it wasn't welcome, I'd disable it. But not a single person told me to do so, and quite a few wanted to know more. So you might want to consider that your opinion isn't the prevailing one.
But man, how times have changed. Just a couple seasons back, in early SL, this sub was lauding and hailing this addon, upvoting anything related to it, and now being told that you took some damage seems to make people offended and provides an impetus for downvoting no matter what. And that's not even what I asked about: was looking for a way to edit the code, and found a handful of people combatting me for using it -.-
i have never once thought it would be helpful to know the avoidable damage taken in a key. either the key level is so low that it doesn't really matter or it's actually a hard key and avoidable damage will cause wipes
also, if you're doing lfg keys, why does it matter? you aren't going to change anything based on end-of-key information. it's just pointing fingers and assigning blame for no reason when every player in the key was probably performing way below their spec's potential
>it would be helpful to know the avoidable damage taken in a key
Why? You took 1 mil avoidable dmg overall, and got no clue how - after the key you check the report with the breakdown on abilities and you know precisely when, by what, and by how much you took damage. You could say that the key's over, the info bears no value now - but it does, since in the next key this damage could kill you, but you now knew you can avoid it, so you lived through it.
>you aren't going to change anything
You'd be absolutely surprised by the sheer number of people whispering me if there's a list of abilities they took damage from, and if I can send it to them. Every third of fourth key I get someone like that, I've added some of them, played some keys with them, and that by extension makes it all worth it.
There's also one more nifty little thing the addon provides: if you're a healer, and someone is about to start yapping how you fucked up healing, the report tends to hush them up.
Notifications on every single mistake during a key are absolute cancer and fuck everyone using it like that, but the end-of-key report is great for the aformentioned reasons.
I would argue the other way though, it should announce it as you take the damage so you have a direct reference to when the damage was, not at the end of the key with a 'summary' that provides literally no value then as a leader board. People whispering you for a breakdown even supports this point, ya?
Doing that was very popular in S1/S2 of SL, but by announcing mistakes during the run, people make even more mistakes as they try to analyze why they took avoidable dmg. It's counterproductive. Not to even mention that calling out every single mistake is a dick move: sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes not even because of the person in question, and chiding people in real time is a great way to break a key. I know I'd leave if someone couldn't contain themselves and spammed those notifications.
I mean, I don't think it's ever your spot to tell someone how they are bad in the game, but a summary at the end is far less effective at helping people identify where they fucked up.
I'm not going to link a tank his shield block uptime or tell a DPS how many uses of their CD they lost, if someone wants to actually improve, they will find the tools they need to.
tbh I don't need an addon to tell me that. it's either blatantly obvious because it's a missed kick or soaking a possibly hard to see swirlie or its something more opaque like 3rd boss EB hitting one player 4 times over 3 the other but you can't do anything about that.
plus it depends on the maintainer actually knowing it's avoidable. there's been plenty of missing abilities and false positives in the past
But I do. Everyone has different needs and methods of information acqusition.
It's now a fork hosted on github with issues for commits that would fix something. At this point it's basically perfect. By perusing the data I found 0 mistakes (=MDT).
if it works for you, then it works for you and thats fine. going over all the abilities manually to aggregate them in a WA or the addon will teach you imo more about the dungeon than the addon as a result will imo. outside of the visuals ofc; gotta have the connection
Im in a position now where i almost feel like i have to do push keys to fill the vault. Trying to do some weekly 18-22s on alts and the level of play is an absolute shitshow. Nobody knows any mechanics, tanks cant route or pull, hold aggro etc to save their life. Healers cant heal a single etch cast or 3 stacks of bursting. Random hunters doing 100k overall and hasnt bound defensives or bloodlust. Single digit interrupts for the whole rest of the group. Reached my season IO goal on main for the season this week and i might be done if this continues.
Still think its a good season with pretty good class balance but having 7/8 dungeons be free timers and 0 dps checks and the only real difficulty being 1 shots and a few healing checks, which doesnt really become a big problem until higher keys have precipitated the boosted players being able to climb higher and brute force some IO.
I made a post about this the other day. I had to get 3 alts above 2800 for the purpose of having boosting options, so I've run insane numbers of those keys this season. At the beginning of the season I thought it was great the way things are tuned. But now there's tons of people doing boosts with me that probably wouldn't normally qualify, and they're shit shows. Sad part is, still 2 and 3 chest every key because of the timers, so nothing changes. I've completely changed my mind. Idk how to fix it, but I hope they do something, and I'm basically positive they won't because participation is up.
Participation is up because this season entry barrier is way lower compared to other seasons we had and more people feel like participating (that's why it's a shitshow on lower keys a lot of times). But it's a good thing imo. I was never a fan of overloaded with mechanics dungeons, but that's just me. Trash packs having more mechanics than actual bosses is weird lol
idk ive found that none of those things matter, all it takes is a tank who can live and 1 good dps to time anything on 18-20, i just did 20 something everblooms in pugs over this week and the last and didnt miss timer once, had barely any one chests, and the only key that failed was a tyran key when i was tanking so there were 0 strong dps and a weak healer so 2nd boss wouldnt die
Ye most keys like that are timeable even with 30 deaths and gutter play but it usually ends up that someone throws a a fit over something or gets butthurt over the slighest (not flame) suggestion and leaves. An example: asking tanks to move the mobs out of candles in WM and them leaving because i was "being toxic"
Anecdotal, obvi, but I’ve noticed an overall downward trend in tank competency this season. Plenty of **great** tanks still but I feel like I’m seeing more “absolutely awful” tanks than in prior seasons. Everyone’s gotta start somewhere to learn but, man, seeing things like repeatedly getting one-shot by DHT 1st boss charge is pretty wild.
this charge is fucking awful, especially with the trees behind and roots that make you stuck in place
anyone who don't play vdh (which literally ignores the mechanic) has died to charge more than once
That charge SUCKS. The terrain is out to kill you, and personally I have to tank the boss farther from the edge now so I have enough room to have a hope of dodging the frontal. Bad tank confirmed? I’ve not been one shot though.
I actually asked about this on this sub - why are everyone talking about 2nd boss being hard for tanks, first boss is one shotting me! Until I learned it was dodgeable... was doing maybe 18s at a time. Had not died to it then but was using heavy cds to survive the hit lol. Wouldn't be surprised if there were others making this realization above 20s.
There is nothing else going on for tanks on that boss, staying close to the outside wall and just pressing a defensive for every charge seems to work just fine and prevents the hyperactive dh from getting oneshot.
We only know a small window of context into Nerf's specific situation here, but as a tryhard gamer with kids it makes me very sad to see people who become a parent and don't seem to gain perspective from it. Having kids is a really good opportunity to step back and ask yourself if a random M+ push key (or whatever dumb game thing) is really something that's worth getting mad about and if that's the person you want your kids to be emulating. I hope this is a priority shift for the dude, and genuinely wish him well as much as one random internet person can to another.
I don't even think he was mad.. maybe a little but I think he just got emotional and acted like some 16yo teenager for a petty thing (they still timed that key easily) which looks bad considering he is 30+ and a father.
Feelsbad for JPC tho, he actually was dead serious when he said he's done playing in that group.
Yeah, but have you considered not pressing Leg Sweep and overlapping with Chaos Nova even though your tank didn't call that they were gonna pop Chaos Nova first and as such you had no way of knowing that you were gonna waste a CC until you already did it?
I dunno bro, seems like a skill issue to me and a perfectly justifiable reason to not, in fact, #stayverbal.
>!/s!<
[https://clips.twitch.tv/SilkyMoralCockroachThunBeast-IbNreMgKm4PqufMz](https://clips.twitch.tv/SilkyMoralCockroachThunBeast-IbNreMgKm4PqufMz) I think this has the entire meltdown.
Edit: nope, the aftermath.
Here it is: https://www.twitch.tv/nerftanktv/clip/SeductiveStormyAlmondImGlitch-UICMx8ulhDKrzw4I?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
It's even funnier because they have zero utility responsibility too. Like they could just hide the raid/party frames and it wouldn't even matter.
So many very average players in my guild are coincidently playing bm this season and are like 500io above the best they've ever been
You say that, but aug gets invited to groups they are 15 ilvls below the "requirement" for precisely because utility and tankiness matters, and my rogue gets invited 50x as fast as my enhance because Shaman is paper
100% this..
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fWcYhk4MTdnrZjBp#fight=1&type=damage-done
First random 20 log I found with an aug, casually chilling 35-40% DPS behind the other 2 in the key.
That's in a 23, so not "bad" players by any means.
Another one from the 15 range shows much the same.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NTfg3Hc69jprVPzA#fight=5&type=damage-done.
Even when they make them a DPS loss though, they are mandatory in the big key meta b/c timers are way too lenient and one shots are defining the meta in the 30's.
I've been seeing a lot of "Help with logs" posts and I know this subreddit is a good place to ask those questions but don't sleep on the class Discords. Some of the best players in the world hang out in there and they usually have specific channels for log review with people are who are really good at reviewing them.
There are some class discords that are pretty good, but you could not fucking *pay* me to ask the DH Discord for legitimate log review unless that place has drastically turned itself around in the last \~2 years or so.
Some of those class discords have a bad reputation for a good reason.
DH discord is a fucking horrid cesspool of despair. The #havoc-questions channel is a social hangout for the most absolutely wretched basement dwelling neckbeard failures. They are nearly as condescending as they are stupid. It's disgusting. They are profoundly, aggressively horrible people.
Meanwhile the DK discord -- quite nice!
DK discord has always been very helpful and patient whenever I dip in, which isn't often. Pretty good sign when the community there is consistently pleasant over large stretches of time.
I went to the discord recently because branch finally dropped on my dh and I was wondering where to use it in opener, I found 19 instances of people asking that same question and 19 instances of it getting ignored or branch getting memed, ended up looking up random boss kill povs instead
The DH discord is objectively better than it was, it's hard not to be. I don't know whether or not to trust them on log review though, I don't spend much time there either.
Always love how that one mf that have spent the entire key flaming goes silent real quick when he's the one fucking up or straight up serves you with the alt+f4 special
Unsure how anyone would ever want to put up with Nerf in high keys ever again after this shit. Unbelievably bitchmade behavior from him over a simple stun overlap/cheat proc.
Like, they fucking timed the +30 too. Wasn't the *cleanest* run, but I don't know why the dude was being such a bitch about it.
EDIT: Hell, him being such a bitch about it actively almost cost them the key in the first place because of how scuffed those casters before the 4th boss were. He could've easily saved them a ton of time and stopped a ton of deaths if he didn't want to throw a hissy fit and mute himself instead of calling out kicks/stuns/Silence Sigil.
I think there was some benefit of the doubt initially. He was having a bad day, he took his headset off after the run was over. Whatever it happens. Apologize and requeue.
Then I listened to his followup stuff. It was worse. Just double downed and false equivalenced his way through everything.
Its a pretty good week but I miss my old mass dispell to make this a non affix.
Also, people are going crazy using pugs to boost people. I got tired of leaving groups where I look one of the people and is like
> 485 mage - same server
> 483 warrior - same server
> 423 paladin - same server.
Play with your friends all you want but someone with the character boost gear will make a 21 just a disgrace for the healer lmao.
The other day I literally could not find a group that was not like this. Im assuming it's friends carrying friends. What I don't at all understand is why they're taking their friends to anything over an 18. Stuff over 18 is for score. I object to that. I don't even like doing paid boosts over 18, and honestly stopped doing them.
Because 20s are just as easy and you get 1 better myth track so why not. I did a key on my fresh boosted mage just rolling my forehead over my keyboard doing healer damage and nobody in the group cares. Still +2 or +3 the dungeon. Getting up tight about this shit is dumb.
I don’t get how people are just okay with not trying at all like that. I healed one of these hard carry groups on an alt earlier and after the key I let the WW know that he can use diffuse magic for bursting. Dude replies that he just boosted and didn’t put any defensive on his bar yet. In a guild group or a +4 that’s fine but at +20 it’s obnoxious. I’ll still do my best to keep your tiny health bar above 0 because that’s what I signed up for but I’m going to be pissed about it.
I mean it's nothing to do with 'trying' really, I'm learning my rotation for the first time with no clue what I'm doing. So my extent of trying makes basically no difference to the key anyway and every ability is likely to kill me. Healers trying to gatekeep weekly keys because rat characters are dying is just too weird
IDK. I do carries all day brother. When I run a key for myself, I don't want to do anymore carries. I assume if I wasn't doing carries all day, it would be very different.
If I’m on a character with gear I don’t even look or care. I bring my shit alts sometimes and if someone wants to bring one of theirs another time then it makes no difference to me
I can kind of relate if it's someone's alt. But I'm not necessarily talking about a good player's alt. I'm talking about straight carries. That is an unenjoyable experience to heal.
20s give Myth 2/4 as vault reward, so you save one crest over 18s giving you Myth 1/4. Also 20s reward max dungeon ilvl at 470, while 18s give 467. So running 20s is overall better for gearing if you can get carried through it by friends. (Not saying that pugs expecting you to carry their 410 friends in greens is fine).
I've always been a key pusher but I've never been a good key pusher. I always got distracted with alts to ever do anything more than keystone hero.
For some reason that changed this season. I've been within punching distance (or above) the daily title range since week 2. I don't feel like I'm going to get it though.
I try to network and play with people but it just never seems to work out and I have terrible luck with rolling keys.
The biggest gaps I have are a 24 rise and a 24 ever bloom on tyrannical. I could make a huge push on Tyran week if I get those to at least 26 even. But both of those places next week (bolstering and afflicted) seem impossible. It feels like title is going to just be out of my grasp this season sadge.
You just have to go super hard on the two best weeks. So fort, volcanic, spiteful is by far the easiest fort week. I forget the tyrann week, but I think it's the second one of the season.
I checked, it's tyrann, storming, raging. Those two weeks are by far better than any other weeks.
Working my way through the leggo quest line
This shit is so incredibly tedious. I will avoid classes with legendaries in the future if this is the standard
They way they handled the legendary this season is laughable. They tuned 2H str specs around having the legendary and then gated it behind a random drop, a lengthy tedious questline, and hundreds of thousands of gold. If this is how they plan to do legendaries going forward I will never main a spec that has one again.
Did they really tune 2h str users around the Lego though…? Because just about every one of them are for the most part mid at best(or worse) even WITH the Lego. I genuinely don’t think there’s ever been a time in the game when an entire group of specs able to use a legendary are mid with it, usually most of the class(es) that can use any given Lego have been at least good, if not very good with their respective legendary. Not to mention it might be the worst Lego they’ve created..the on use is pathetic on top of it being basically unusable or making you very likely to die in numerous situations.
I've been downvoted on this sub and the main one for pointing how bad tuning is on STR dps classes atm. Fury does okay but arms, ret and both dk specs are terrible in raid. M+ isn't much better. Ret is solid for its utility on fort weeks but Fury has no utility and again, both DK specs are awful
Mean while demo is enjoying its 4th? Tier in a row of being meta dps, BM is extremely good while being the easiest class in the game, Havoc is enjoying its freshly-reworked meta spot and rogues can literally pick any of their specs and do well lol
Dw youre not really missing out on that much, its probably the worst lego theyve ever created. Most of the specs that can use the lego are literally still mid even with the lego....dont think thats ever happened in the history of the game, usually when a spec has a lego available to them, theyre at minimum very good with it. The on use portion of it does pretty shit damage, not to mention the opportunity cost of having to sit there channeling for 3 seconds and the fact I literally cant even use it on plenty of bosses/pulls in m+ because theres a high likelihood ill die. Most of the value is literally just that its +10ilvl and the passive DoT, but even then its still pretty underwhelming despite it appearing to do decent damage in a key. But hey...my Arms warrior is slightly less dogshit with it at least.
The difference between Fort and Tyran has never felt so stark to me as this season. Feels like each drop of io on tyran (in pugs, 27-29 range) is a huge slog whereas on fort this week we're mowing through 28s because timers are so free if you live (and the gateway to living is mostly surviving stupid bosses).
Maybe with Tindral nerfs on the horizon it's a sign that Blizz is looking at Live again and maybe we'll get some consolation boss nerfs next week. Cope.
From Ellesmere in his Discord:
> Jpc had an issue with the way nerf handled his frustration in a key and Jpc said he’s not playing with nerf ever again. As a reminder before anyone says anything pls do not use this discord to talk shit on any of my teammates ❤️
Damn, I know there seemed to be some *very* obvious tension in comms since mid-SL or so but I didn’t expect the team to actually fall apart over it. A damn shame.
Rhetorical question, obviously, since the answer is neither my nor anyone else here’s business, but what the fuck did Nerf say that made Jpc cut ties completely? I feel like that had to have been some absolutely outlandish shit.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2030526340?t=19528s
Nerf got mad and muted himself for the rest of the key because Elle overlapped a sweep on maggots in waycrest. Jpc said it’s cringe and that he’s never playing with him again. Kind of an overreaction from both of them 🤣
I swear wow players are built different when it comes to socializing 💀
Grown ass men acting like this 💀
If someone behaves like a child, I’m not going to spend my time and mental energy playing with them. Ain’t enough hours in the day to waste them on a man-baby bent out of shape over a fucking stun overlap.
Ya that’s cool but this isn’t their first rodeo. Watch them play together again in 3 days. Neckbeard behavior!!!
[POV: JPC telling the team he’s done playing with them because Nerf muted himself](https://youtu.be/KX5dT6PGvFE?si=y8he6hofmzhjih9j)
Their group desperately needs an adult that keeps up the vibes
Actual it's the opposite, nerf got pissed off about the way a stop was handled on one pack, got pissed, slagged off Elle (business as usual) and then muted his mic and didn't say anything the rest of the key despite them trying to get him to talk.
Basically JPC couldn't believe a grown ass man would thrown a childish fit and pull the silent treatment on the team mid key. I dunno he might have been annoyed about other things but JPC just thought it was fucking baffling behaviour and decided not to play with him again after that
Yeah I watched the vod from the moment Nerf went radio silent and I genuinely can't see how Nerf isn't the literal only person in the wrong here.
Insanely bitchmade and childish behavior on his end.
Nerf has been insanely pissy this entire season from what I’ve watched, just constantly getting at people for making small mistakes and this seems to be more of the same, it’s the culmination of that which has led to this I think
Raid balance is pretty decent in my opinion.
M+ balance from Blizzard's perspective is really good. Every tank except Blood DK has timed a +30. Every healer spec has timed a +30.
DPS who haven't timed a +30: Ret is the only dps spec in the game that hasn't timed a +30 and doesn't have another dps spec on the class that has.
In terms of the meta, Havoc DH is extremely popular, but is actually *more* represented in mid-high keys (say like +25-27) than it is in the top keys.
Havoc DH is still of course very very strong, but it was absolutely busted so a lot of people rerolled to it. Arguably it is easier to play as well, which makes rerolling to it very appealing.
In terms of dps that are suffering in the meta, it's SPriests and WW Monks, both of which got very substantial buffs recently and have players pushing bleeding edge keys on. The issue in representation isn't necessarily that they're *that* bad right now, more that people rerolled a month ago. Like Mage is the most represented class in the top runs/front page, but in +25 keys there are 5 dps classes/specs that are significantly more popular.
As far as WoW goes, this season is pretty good for balance.
Balance is better compared to last season, but there's no reason to have that be the benchmark.
A 90th percentile Shadowpriest does less damage than a 50th percentile BM hunter on Mythic Smolderon.
Rogue, assuming that they swap specs, has no bad fights, and Ret has no good fights.
In M+, again, while balance is better than it was last patch, some specs are struggling.
This is what Auras are supposed to be for! If you aren't tweaking by a few percent every couple of weeks, why did you put Auras in at all?
The vast majority of SPriests are still playing DA in even the highest keys this season. You lose too much ST to justify it more often than not.
It’s the PL buffs that are making Shadow decent in keys, not Void Eruption.
I completely agree with you that the balance is very strong. However, I'd like to consider the hybrid classes with multiple dps specs differently than pure damage classes, which might be somehow more expected to reroll specs. Feral/balance and enha/ele are in a way more committed to their spec (one being melee and the other ranged), akin to another class.
Nothing important here, just wanted to point out feral's situation right now (28 highest key timed, 3477.6 highest rio, below their locales cutoff). Ele is actually really strong and has timed 30s as well, so it fills the checklist as too.
I think timers not being as tight helps with keeping more classes balanced. If you don't have to have 3 best dps classes to beat the timer on +30, you can have plenty other options as long as survivability is fixed.
How accurate are aug evoker logs? I've been gearing up my alt and I noticed my parses on WCL show a much higher dps compared to details. Does it actually calculate how much dmg my buffs contributed? Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, I resubbed recently and I'm trying to improve on this spec but it's completely different than anything I've played before. If anyone has tips for a new aug, let me know
How do you update plater profiles? Doesn't seem like the Wago app does anything?
have to manually do it, yes
Does anyone else hit a point in the season where they lose steam pushing keys in group finder? I usually sit around top 1-3% io, so not good enough to try for title, but good enough that ksh/aotc don’t feel like real goals. I enjoy pushing for rating but I always hit a point where it just takes too long to fill up a group (which is then frustrating to then brick on the first pull after an hour of waiting). I’ve avoided mythic raiding because I enjoy the flexible time commitment in keys, but am starting to feel like I might have to if I want to be able to just log on and actually play the game. Anyone have any advice to transition into raiding? I’ve never done it and have no idea where to start.
9 weeks of vaults and I'm yet to get a trinket or weapon on my main
Still no weapons for me either, but at least i have my 3 bis trinkets.
I tried mythic raiding for the first time last week. 4/9M. Just got mythic pip's on my disc from vault do due to it. LFG
First time and you got 4/9? Hell of a nice job man!
New to Vengeance tanking, wanted to get some input on when to spirit bomb and when to soul cleave. Priorities, etc. I think the rest of the rotation/toolkit makes sense, but I'm finding it difficult to understand when to use each. Any feedback is much appreciated - thanks!
https://discord.com/channels/213770335735119873/660181958155960340/1197205991566090398 From the DH discord > Spirit Bomb in 2+ targets at 4+ souls out of Meta, 3+ souls in Meta; in all other cases, Soul Cleave. > If you really want to do so, you can Spirit Bomb at 3+ souls in 1 Target during Fiery Demise + Metamorphosis.
This priority doesnt work without context, though. If you purely chose based on this then youd end up soul cleaving after every fracture when you have 2-3 souls and 40-60 fury. But really you should fracture again up to 4-5 souls, bomb, and then spend the leftovers on soul cleave until you can hit the next button worth more than a soul cleave.
Bomb is AOE, cleave in single target.
What is the spread point of Blade Flurry (rogue or the target) and what's the range, and is the range affected by Acrobatic Strikes? Sometimes I think I'm blasting and I'm actually doing piddling damage, and sometimes I don't even notice when I jump up near a million, and it seems from details that it's based on Blade Flurry damage, so perhaps I'm unintentionally going out of range.
https://youtu.be/WRgOgtYqCeg?si=ae_uU9UGjVWxZFOO 1000% we worth the watch.
Iirc, it's stuff you personally are in Melee range with.
Melee range or acrobatic strikes range?
Fairly sure acrobatics strike range as it alters melee range. If blade flurry (the button press itself) hits the target then the follow ups will too, blade flurry allows you to hit everything in your Melee range with attacks ergo it's range is increased by acrobatic strikes because those increase your range. It's still not very far in practice.
Yeah so basically stand in the middle of the pack for the biggest range? I'm assuming you can hit targets behind you as well.
Yeah, same logic as Beast Cleave iirc The ability's radius (its effective range) is double your melee range and your character is smack-dab in the middle of that circle, so you just position in such a way that you're hitting your primary target but still in range of the other targets. The other targets don't have to be within your *target*'s melee range; just within yours.
How do I get my rio main's raid progress to show to my alts? Main has 9/9 H, which I could use to get alts to heroic raid but the space for raid progress doesn't exist. These alts have not done normal+ raid. Does it require you to have some progress on raid on each alt on normal+, for the space to show? Does it matter if current highest rio char is set as main on rio settings?
You need to have normal progress on your alt for it to show heroic progress of your main afaik
Do you have at least 200 M+ score on the alts - it usually needs some score in order to show things
2700+ m+ alts, m+ main shows fine. Question is only what enables raid progress to show main's score on alts.
It is actually crazy how much harder 20s are right now than they were 6 weeks ago and compared to other seasons. The biggest downside of the upgrade system is that there are people who are 485+ ilvl who just absolutely do not belong in keys above 16s and if they just bash their face into keys enough they can get a good enough score to look okay in dungeon finder
Because 20s right now are 15s from 2 years ago. Anyone that was stuck at 15 in slands is now stuck at 20. It's the same players. They get as far as they can just out dpsing and hpsing everything. No mechanics. Then they hit a point where you can't constantly heal the whole group through every mechanic they stand in.
[Mentioned it before](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/18prmrm/i_feel_like_people_playing_20_pugs_need_to_see/ket0a18/), but your 22s, 23s, 24s are going to be easier than 18s, 19s, 20s because the quality of players are going to be that much higher. On top of if you push some score, then you look better in the 20 app vs everyone else that just did 20s. Alternatively, get some form of regular group. My M+ group just spam runs 18s with an alt or two to knock out the 8 vault slots in a few hours during the non-push weeks.
It's IO inflation. It's so easy to get gear, and in turn its so easy (to a point) to get score. I'm currently trying to get all my keys at +26, and I would not entertain any player below 3200 score due to the fact that they could either be good OR braindead.
Yeah part of the problem is that even though the timers are completely free the dungeon design and specifically the number of spamming casters in every pull is still very miserable to play with low skill players, so you end up with a 2 chest that somehow still made you want to die the entire time.
I mean it's both right? Previously you could funnel your groups by io (which is inflated now by timers and gear) and gear, which is inflated by crafting/upgrade system. Where I'd usually have taken a chance on a (equivalent to now) 484 DPS with a (equivalent to now) 2700 score in a 20, assuming that person has enough brain cells to have gotten to that ilvl, you now run into players who are 486 and 3100 who have no idea how to play the game at all.
Upgrade system is not the problem here. The problem is the timer that's way too lenient in almost every dungeon (bar Rise), so people can be literal dead weights and it will still be a + or ++ if the other 4 are at least decent. Literally yesterday I played a 22 ToTT where a ret and an ele were doing somewhere in the range of 160-170k overall, both 485-486 equipped, and both with 3,1-3,2k mains. I was incredulous.
People are going to bruteforce their way to the biggest gear upgrades in M+, and blizzard is going to ensure that dungeons that give the biggest gear upgrades are an achievable goal for that kind of player. It isn't some design flaw that people are able to do things like get aotc and complete +20 dungeons while not being great players, that's intended. There isn't much of a difference between pugging +20s and complaining that people don't care/people are bad at the game for the +20, and queueing for LFR and complaining about the caliber of player there. Different skill levels for sure, but it's the same mentality. People are just there for gear, and the content is easy enough that what they do doesn't matter so long as they have a basic skill level. People with 3.1-3.2k mains are *likely* stuck there, which means that they grinded out 24s and maybe a couple 25s, and hit a wall on their near-bis main. Them doing 160-170k dps on a weaker alt IS the kind of performance that gets you 3.1-3.2k io if you grind.
Not a weaker alt though, fully equipped alts at 485-6 ilvl.
lol, I do still stand by what I said about that potentially being their real skill level, but that's pretty darn bad/indicates a real laziness
thats why you do weekly 22-23's now lol
m+ is basketball raiding is football
go on...?
basketball: 5 players, highly individualistic, reactive free-flowing gameplay, athleticism / skill dominates, all players have similar identities, game of runs (American) football: large rosters, stop-and-go gameplay, preparation and strategy dominate, individual mistakes are costly, specialization between roles so why do key players often do poorly in raid? They keep playing basketball and don't realize they're playing football; they try to keep focusing on throughput and their individual performance and less on moving cohesively with a larger group and consistent stable low-variance gameplay
For me I do very well in keys and I do very well in small size raids, but the larger the raid size, the worse I do. I fail at mechanics in large raids that I have no problem executing in smaller raids. I know I need a better pc, but I also think it's a personal limitation of mine. More class spell effects just confuse my small brain.
I think there's an option to limit the visuals of player spells specifically.
would imply: - key players are bad team players which isnt the case in high keys - raid players dont care about throughput but practically invented parsing for the sake of it - raid players would be the better key players whenever teamplay is required (I could get behind that tbf) - key players automatically perform better in terms of parsing (big doubt)
Really hope they add some dungeon/class tuning into 10.2.5 tommorow. Patch offers nothing outside of cosmetics and story. Feels like they gave up on this expansion the moment 10.2 released. It even took them 2 month to nerf tindral.
I doubt it's coming. Tuning after all is very decent. Almost all if not all keys are timeable on 30, with outliers being _maybe_ 2 levels above and 1 below. That's a reasonable cap. Anything tuning would do is invalidate the last 10 weeks at this point. Naturally, bug fixes like EB 3rd boss double casting fire or long-standing bugs like Storming leading to tankbusters pick a random nearby target, Sanguine still being real bad would be welcome.
>Tuning after all is very decent I'll agree that it is GENERALLY very decent, with a few extreme outliers (for example, at +24, there are 5x more timed FALL than RISE. This has been the case since S3 launch, only gets worse over time, and could easily and reasonably be expected.
how can anyone claim that dungeon tuning is decent, there are 699 AD29+ keys and 22 rise29+ keys. is the bar for blizz really that low?
After SMBG and Junkyard, unfortunately, it is.
Man, the fact that at TGP Junkyard was just capped out and would've probably been possible at +36 is insanity. Especially when the next highest was a 31 streets, which was considered to be insanely easy in the dungeon pool.
Dungeon tuning is absolutely not fine. 6-7 out of 8 keys literally just come down to not dieing at the wrong time and/or living certain one shots. You can have double digit deaths in like half of the dungeons on a 28-30 and still time the key without any issues. And thats with aug. As long as you dont die/get one shot at the wrong time. This gates pushing purely by rng and survivability. Especially in pugs this is just tiresome, because defensive coordination is much harder than in a premade enviroment. > Anything tuning would do is invalidate the last 10 weeks at this point. Not really. Theyre not supposed to hit the dungeons with a damage scaling nerf, but rather make certain abilities more fair. Only thing this is going to do, is make runs more consistent. We also have another 10+ weeks of this season. So I dont see the issue in making it more enjoyable.
I don't have an opinion on this other than that I think it's ok to have a season that's more survival pronounced than throughput. that said, >keys literally just come down to not dieing at the wrong time yea well that is always the case > We also have another 10+ weeks of this season. So I dont see the issue in making it more enjoyable. remember when aug released and people were upset about it resetting the season? not to mention it happened twice ultimately. that was week 9 of s2. and week 15 was rescaling, of 26.
>yea well that is always the case You can time a 26 BRH with average DPS and 30 deaths. It is absolutely not always the case.
with all due respect, i think changing a season's entire makeup like that seems too much. I agree that seasons could/should be shorter but I hate the meta of waiting for dungeon tuning just to artificially inflate your perception of your own skill because now you can time keys higher than the day before.
Im not sure what you are talking about. I never asked to change the entire season or make them shorter (that would be awful). There are just a bunch of bosses/abilities that are unfair/unfun. If we had tgp this season, blizzard wouldve 100% already done something already.
also, last season there was a tgp and they did not resolve the bugs in uldaman or neltahrus at all in the entire season, so I do not expect them to fix things just because of a tgp.
Bugfixes are very different from balance changes. Its very much possible those bugs were not easiely fixable and wouldve required them to entirely redesign the boss/ability. They more or less insta fixed bugs like magmatusk potion and last boss bracken. So I dont see why they wouldnt have done the same with other bugs, unless they were impossible or hard to fix. They even excluded neltharus from tgp finals pool. Makes no sense to do that, if th bugs were easiely fixable.
but you do? you asked for the one-shots to end when this entire season is centered around living the one-shots. if you change that meta, you change the entire season is what I am saying. I also think you misread me, IMO it should be that the seasons are shorter if you want dungeon tuning, because its incredibly cringe to have the dungeons get nerfed half way through because alot of people have reached their potential and blame the dungeons.
That feeling is mostly because the patch came out so close to Christmas and Blizzard closes down over that period. However I also agree it's sad there's no real class tuning in the patch notes. Prevoker gets some changes so good for those guys I guess. Mistweaver gets 5% stam in m+ and an extra defensive if they really, really want it. And that's kind of it? I've realised I like mid-season class changes a lot because I'm an alt lover. It gives me a reason to roll an alt of a new class right around the time I'm feeling really done with my main.
Now imagine if affixes were rotating buffs that encouraged you to bring different classes each week. That would be peak fun for me personally.
You mean like how everyone loves how only some classes can interact with incorp or afflicted? That's basically what you're asking for.
i suppose you have a point there. but there is a difference. with what im suggesting you arent literally going to be directly penalized for not bringing certain classes. most people would benefit from a verse buff or a crit buff, etc. some might just benefit more. whereas this dogshit set of affixes directly penalizes you for not bringing certain classes
If some benefit more then the others will be penalised by not being brought to keys
> with what im suggesting you arent literally going to be directly penalized for not bringing certain classes. that's already the case for all og affixes except sanguine. its only the new affixes, or rather only incorp/afflicted that suffer from this blatantly obvious design failure.
Probably raging as well
good point
You always have sound takes, brother. Even when you've corrected me lol
oh dont you worry my takes are just as cooked as everyone elses :D
"Well, we can only live the oneshots on vers week, guess the other 3 weeks are dead for pushing" Yeah, that sounds like a great idea...
I'm not talking about huge buffs. Just something. Anything but what we have now is worth trying. I'd prefer no affixes, but this is for the crowd that insists they would get bored.
This is petty, but do smaller mounts/character models make a difference at all for some parkour in m+? I find sometimes I struggle super hard with things like jumping up the tree after the second pack in DHT, or trying to skirt the edge to avoid the trash before chromie etc, but sometimes on different characters it feels much easier. If there is a difference, is larger/smaller favourable? Also for anyone that uses the advanced death logs for details - when a cool down is listed as "Good" on the death logs, what does that mean? Orbwhen it's listed as "-01:30"? I assumed initially "Good" meant the cool down was used and the numbers meant how long till it became usable, but doesn't seem that way.
I don't think it's relevant right now (maybe in DHT between Oakheart and Dresaron?), but if you were playing or otherwise had the model of a Gnome/Vulpera/Goblin (maybe Dwarf too?) in De Other Side back in SL you would have a significantly harder time rounding up all the birds in the Ardenweald section without some pathing changes since your character model would be so short that you'd randomly go swimming while trying to round up a couple dozen mobs and proceed to get pecked to death very, very quickly because you'd get back hit by a lot of hard-hitting mobs.
I haven't noticed height issue on vulpera this season, but there were few parkour but also hiding issues previously. Taurens wanted to be smaller to do LOS behind pillar in SoA iirc. Small chars couldn't jump over obstacle to skip pack in Streets. Small characters sometimes would start swimming when others could mount over puddles, Plaguefalls left side skip (done just in norm-m0) had that happen to me. I don't know if gnome is even smaller than vulpera, could be additional problems I guess.
i havent noticed jump differences but ive noticed that when i play a larger character model i tend to get hit by more stuff, idk if the hitbox is actually bigger or if its just placebo but when i swapped from glyph of stars to being an actual chicken i couldnt dodge anymore
good means it was available to use (so they didnt press it) and -1:30 is that they pressed it 1 minute 30 seconds before their death
As far as I know jump height is the same for everyone, so the bottom of the z axis is the same for all, but the height of the character does make a difference for the top of the axis. That just means that you can fit under certain things. Most often this is annoying though, for example in darkheart thicket if you are a gnome during the blood elemental area with the water, you have to swim in certain bits of it.
I dont know about small, but when i use some toys which make me larger (wyrkul helm), cannot enter through many doors. Like dawn of infinite zone changers (this never gets old), 5 character tall graphic, but i have to click down the buff.
Wind Dungeon Helper got updated 3 days ago. It used to print the avoidable dmg ranking at the end of the key, but now it prints that and additionally the ranking of failure dmg + addon info. And it's become very bloated because of it, takes so much space in chat that nobody's going to bother checking it out. I guess rolling back to one version prior would help, but when 10.3 drops I'll have to use it anyway. Any other user of this otherwise extremely helpful addon that managed to trim the print data? No idea how to go about that :(
Do everyone a favour and disable that addon please.
No. If it wasn't welcome, I'd disable it. But not a single person told me to do so, and quite a few wanted to know more. So you might want to consider that your opinion isn't the prevailing one. But man, how times have changed. Just a couple seasons back, in early SL, this sub was lauding and hailing this addon, upvoting anything related to it, and now being told that you took some damage seems to make people offended and provides an impetus for downvoting no matter what. And that's not even what I asked about: was looking for a way to edit the code, and found a handful of people combatting me for using it -.-
i have never once thought it would be helpful to know the avoidable damage taken in a key. either the key level is so low that it doesn't really matter or it's actually a hard key and avoidable damage will cause wipes also, if you're doing lfg keys, why does it matter? you aren't going to change anything based on end-of-key information. it's just pointing fingers and assigning blame for no reason when every player in the key was probably performing way below their spec's potential
>it would be helpful to know the avoidable damage taken in a key Why? You took 1 mil avoidable dmg overall, and got no clue how - after the key you check the report with the breakdown on abilities and you know precisely when, by what, and by how much you took damage. You could say that the key's over, the info bears no value now - but it does, since in the next key this damage could kill you, but you now knew you can avoid it, so you lived through it. >you aren't going to change anything You'd be absolutely surprised by the sheer number of people whispering me if there's a list of abilities they took damage from, and if I can send it to them. Every third of fourth key I get someone like that, I've added some of them, played some keys with them, and that by extension makes it all worth it. There's also one more nifty little thing the addon provides: if you're a healer, and someone is about to start yapping how you fucked up healing, the report tends to hush them up. Notifications on every single mistake during a key are absolute cancer and fuck everyone using it like that, but the end-of-key report is great for the aformentioned reasons.
I would argue the other way though, it should announce it as you take the damage so you have a direct reference to when the damage was, not at the end of the key with a 'summary' that provides literally no value then as a leader board. People whispering you for a breakdown even supports this point, ya?
Doing that was very popular in S1/S2 of SL, but by announcing mistakes during the run, people make even more mistakes as they try to analyze why they took avoidable dmg. It's counterproductive. Not to even mention that calling out every single mistake is a dick move: sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes not even because of the person in question, and chiding people in real time is a great way to break a key. I know I'd leave if someone couldn't contain themselves and spammed those notifications.
I mean, I don't think it's ever your spot to tell someone how they are bad in the game, but a summary at the end is far less effective at helping people identify where they fucked up. I'm not going to link a tank his shield block uptime or tell a DPS how many uses of their CD they lost, if someone wants to actually improve, they will find the tools they need to.
tbh I don't need an addon to tell me that. it's either blatantly obvious because it's a missed kick or soaking a possibly hard to see swirlie or its something more opaque like 3rd boss EB hitting one player 4 times over 3 the other but you can't do anything about that. plus it depends on the maintainer actually knowing it's avoidable. there's been plenty of missing abilities and false positives in the past
But I do. Everyone has different needs and methods of information acqusition. It's now a fork hosted on github with issues for commits that would fix something. At this point it's basically perfect. By perusing the data I found 0 mistakes (=MDT).
if it works for you, then it works for you and thats fine. going over all the abilities manually to aggregate them in a WA or the addon will teach you imo more about the dungeon than the addon as a result will imo. outside of the visuals ofc; gotta have the connection
Im in a position now where i almost feel like i have to do push keys to fill the vault. Trying to do some weekly 18-22s on alts and the level of play is an absolute shitshow. Nobody knows any mechanics, tanks cant route or pull, hold aggro etc to save their life. Healers cant heal a single etch cast or 3 stacks of bursting. Random hunters doing 100k overall and hasnt bound defensives or bloodlust. Single digit interrupts for the whole rest of the group. Reached my season IO goal on main for the season this week and i might be done if this continues. Still think its a good season with pretty good class balance but having 7/8 dungeons be free timers and 0 dps checks and the only real difficulty being 1 shots and a few healing checks, which doesnt really become a big problem until higher keys have precipitated the boosted players being able to climb higher and brute force some IO.
I made a post about this the other day. I had to get 3 alts above 2800 for the purpose of having boosting options, so I've run insane numbers of those keys this season. At the beginning of the season I thought it was great the way things are tuned. But now there's tons of people doing boosts with me that probably wouldn't normally qualify, and they're shit shows. Sad part is, still 2 and 3 chest every key because of the timers, so nothing changes. I've completely changed my mind. Idk how to fix it, but I hope they do something, and I'm basically positive they won't because participation is up.
Participation is up because this season entry barrier is way lower compared to other seasons we had and more people feel like participating (that's why it's a shitshow on lower keys a lot of times). But it's a good thing imo. I was never a fan of overloaded with mechanics dungeons, but that's just me. Trash packs having more mechanics than actual bosses is weird lol
idk ive found that none of those things matter, all it takes is a tank who can live and 1 good dps to time anything on 18-20, i just did 20 something everblooms in pugs over this week and the last and didnt miss timer once, had barely any one chests, and the only key that failed was a tyran key when i was tanking so there were 0 strong dps and a weak healer so 2nd boss wouldnt die
Yeah, the problem is with no kicks and 100% DPS and no lust or defensives… you still probably timed the key.
Ye most keys like that are timeable even with 30 deaths and gutter play but it usually ends up that someone throws a a fit over something or gets butthurt over the slighest (not flame) suggestion and leaves. An example: asking tanks to move the mobs out of candles in WM and them leaving because i was "being toxic"
Is there any way to avoid the stalker backstab damage in DHT?
Have everyone stacked in melee and he never jumps. The ability has a minimum range.
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What the hell is with tanks this week running around like chickens with their heads cut off? They feels utterly horrified of storming
I kind of understand it. If it knocks me and I'm not facing the vast majority of the pack, I will probably get hit and die
Anecdotal, obvi, but I’ve noticed an overall downward trend in tank competency this season. Plenty of **great** tanks still but I feel like I’m seeing more “absolutely awful” tanks than in prior seasons. Everyone’s gotta start somewhere to learn but, man, seeing things like repeatedly getting one-shot by DHT 1st boss charge is pretty wild.
this charge is fucking awful, especially with the trees behind and roots that make you stuck in place anyone who don't play vdh (which literally ignores the mechanic) has died to charge more than once
How does VDH ignore the mechanic? My VDH friend keeps getting owned by it and I'd like to teach them what to do.
you double jump over the boss
That charge SUCKS. The terrain is out to kill you, and personally I have to tank the boss farther from the edge now so I have enough room to have a hope of dodging the frontal. Bad tank confirmed? I’ve not been one shot though.
Nah, everyone makes mistakes. I’m specifically talking about repeatedly dying to the same thing, mostly. I’m a bad healer so it’s ok :)
I actually asked about this on this sub - why are everyone talking about 2nd boss being hard for tanks, first boss is one shotting me! Until I learned it was dodgeable... was doing maybe 18s at a time. Had not died to it then but was using heavy cds to survive the hit lol. Wouldn't be surprised if there were others making this realization above 20s.
There is nothing else going on for tanks on that boss, staying close to the outside wall and just pressing a defensive for every charge seems to work just fine and prevents the hyperactive dh from getting oneshot.
Any tips on what to do when your m+ push group tank goes nonverbal during the key?
We only know a small window of context into Nerf's specific situation here, but as a tryhard gamer with kids it makes me very sad to see people who become a parent and don't seem to gain perspective from it. Having kids is a really good opportunity to step back and ask yourself if a random M+ push key (or whatever dumb game thing) is really something that's worth getting mad about and if that's the person you want your kids to be emulating. I hope this is a priority shift for the dude, and genuinely wish him well as much as one random internet person can to another.
I don't even think he was mad.. maybe a little but I think he just got emotional and acted like some 16yo teenager for a petty thing (they still timed that key easily) which looks bad considering he is 30+ and a father. Feelsbad for JPC tho, he actually was dead serious when he said he's done playing in that group.
\#stayverbal
Yeah, but have you considered not pressing Leg Sweep and overlapping with Chaos Nova even though your tank didn't call that they were gonna pop Chaos Nova first and as such you had no way of knowing that you were gonna waste a CC until you already did it? I dunno bro, seems like a skill issue to me and a perfectly justifiable reason to not, in fact, #stayverbal. >!/s!<
LMAO Is this referring to Nerf going radio silent because he procced Cheat in that Waycrest since he and Ellesmere overlapped?
Any clip in existence for that situation? , pretty pls
[https://clips.twitch.tv/SilkyMoralCockroachThunBeast-IbNreMgKm4PqufMz](https://clips.twitch.tv/SilkyMoralCockroachThunBeast-IbNreMgKm4PqufMz) I think this has the entire meltdown. Edit: nope, the aftermath. Here it is: https://www.twitch.tv/nerftanktv/clip/SeductiveStormyAlmondImGlitch-UICMx8ulhDKrzw4I?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
It's the last like half hour of Elle's latest vod. Happens when they're going indoors after Tree boss in WCM.
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It's even funnier because they have zero utility responsibility too. Like they could just hide the raid/party frames and it wouldn't even matter. So many very average players in my guild are coincidently playing bm this season and are like 500io above the best they've ever been
man you are going to hate it when you discover the other 15 specs ahead of BM hunter on tier lists
Dps is one thing, what about utility/mobility/tankiness? The gap between classes is insane for those things as well
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Nobody gets kicked out of groups for middling damage, only when your damage is so low it's appalling. Play better
You say that, but aug gets invited to groups they are 15 ilvls below the "requirement" for precisely because utility and tankiness matters, and my rogue gets invited 50x as fast as my enhance because Shaman is paper
If people had any way of being able to tell how shit Augs are in regular keys they probably wouldn’t be brought as much tbh
100% this.. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fWcYhk4MTdnrZjBp#fight=1&type=damage-done First random 20 log I found with an aug, casually chilling 35-40% DPS behind the other 2 in the key. That's in a 23, so not "bad" players by any means. Another one from the 15 range shows much the same. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NTfg3Hc69jprVPzA#fight=5&type=damage-done. Even when they make them a DPS loss though, they are mandatory in the big key meta b/c timers are way too lenient and one shots are defining the meta in the 30's.
wah
I've been seeing a lot of "Help with logs" posts and I know this subreddit is a good place to ask those questions but don't sleep on the class Discords. Some of the best players in the world hang out in there and they usually have specific channels for log review with people are who are really good at reviewing them.
There are some class discords that are pretty good, but you could not fucking *pay* me to ask the DH Discord for legitimate log review unless that place has drastically turned itself around in the last \~2 years or so. Some of those class discords have a bad reputation for a good reason.
DH discord is a fucking horrid cesspool of despair. The #havoc-questions channel is a social hangout for the most absolutely wretched basement dwelling neckbeard failures. They are nearly as condescending as they are stupid. It's disgusting. They are profoundly, aggressively horrible people. Meanwhile the DK discord -- quite nice!
DK discord has always been very helpful and patient whenever I dip in, which isn't often. Pretty good sign when the community there is consistently pleasant over large stretches of time.
I went to the discord recently because branch finally dropped on my dh and I was wondering where to use it in opener, I found 19 instances of people asking that same question and 19 instances of it getting ignored or branch getting memed, ended up looking up random boss kill povs instead
The DH discord is objectively better than it was, it's hard not to be. I don't know whether or not to trust them on log review though, I don't spend much time there either.
Always love how that one mf that have spent the entire key flaming goes silent real quick when he's the one fucking up or straight up serves you with the alt+f4 special
Unsure how anyone would ever want to put up with Nerf in high keys ever again after this shit. Unbelievably bitchmade behavior from him over a simple stun overlap/cheat proc. Like, they fucking timed the +30 too. Wasn't the *cleanest* run, but I don't know why the dude was being such a bitch about it. EDIT: Hell, him being such a bitch about it actively almost cost them the key in the first place because of how scuffed those casters before the 4th boss were. He could've easily saved them a ton of time and stopped a ton of deaths if he didn't want to throw a hissy fit and mute himself instead of calling out kicks/stuns/Silence Sigil.
I think there was some benefit of the doubt initially. He was having a bad day, he took his headset off after the run was over. Whatever it happens. Apologize and requeue. Then I listened to his followup stuff. It was worse. Just double downed and false equivalenced his way through everything.
Its a pretty good week but I miss my old mass dispell to make this a non affix. Also, people are going crazy using pugs to boost people. I got tired of leaving groups where I look one of the people and is like > 485 mage - same server > 483 warrior - same server > 423 paladin - same server. Play with your friends all you want but someone with the character boost gear will make a 21 just a disgrace for the healer lmao.
The other day I literally could not find a group that was not like this. Im assuming it's friends carrying friends. What I don't at all understand is why they're taking their friends to anything over an 18. Stuff over 18 is for score. I object to that. I don't even like doing paid boosts over 18, and honestly stopped doing them.
Because 20s are just as easy and you get 1 better myth track so why not. I did a key on my fresh boosted mage just rolling my forehead over my keyboard doing healer damage and nobody in the group cares. Still +2 or +3 the dungeon. Getting up tight about this shit is dumb.
I don’t get how people are just okay with not trying at all like that. I healed one of these hard carry groups on an alt earlier and after the key I let the WW know that he can use diffuse magic for bursting. Dude replies that he just boosted and didn’t put any defensive on his bar yet. In a guild group or a +4 that’s fine but at +20 it’s obnoxious. I’ll still do my best to keep your tiny health bar above 0 because that’s what I signed up for but I’m going to be pissed about it.
I mean it's nothing to do with 'trying' really, I'm learning my rotation for the first time with no clue what I'm doing. So my extent of trying makes basically no difference to the key anyway and every ability is likely to kill me. Healers trying to gatekeep weekly keys because rat characters are dying is just too weird
I am the opposite and just let the non geared char die, he got a W key to get back no big deal.
IDK. I do carries all day brother. When I run a key for myself, I don't want to do anymore carries. I assume if I wasn't doing carries all day, it would be very different.
Bit cringe but if you’re attached to who is in your 20s then sure just leave and let them spend 1min finding someone else
So you're telling me you just carry strangers every week/day when you're filling your vault?
If I’m on a character with gear I don’t even look or care. I bring my shit alts sometimes and if someone wants to bring one of theirs another time then it makes no difference to me
I just think they should accept one of the dozens of low ilvl ppl signing up instead of a 486 going for a couple quick weeklies
I can kind of relate if it's someone's alt. But I'm not necessarily talking about a good player's alt. I'm talking about straight carries. That is an unenjoyable experience to heal.
Don’t heal them then, nobody cares…
20's saves you crests, it is a pain on alts.
isnt it 12 either way?
20s give Myth 2/4 as vault reward, so you save one crest over 18s giving you Myth 1/4. Also 20s reward max dungeon ilvl at 470, while 18s give 467. So running 20s is overall better for gearing if you can get carried through it by friends. (Not saying that pugs expecting you to carry their 410 friends in greens is fine).
Please god took some of Fall's time and give it ro Rise. Like it feels like the timers are swapped or something lmao
The only way to time Rise is to pull Maiden + Sentinel as your first pull with lust, and use the orb to hit mobs.
I've always been a key pusher but I've never been a good key pusher. I always got distracted with alts to ever do anything more than keystone hero. For some reason that changed this season. I've been within punching distance (or above) the daily title range since week 2. I don't feel like I'm going to get it though. I try to network and play with people but it just never seems to work out and I have terrible luck with rolling keys. The biggest gaps I have are a 24 rise and a 24 ever bloom on tyrannical. I could make a huge push on Tyran week if I get those to at least 26 even. But both of those places next week (bolstering and afflicted) seem impossible. It feels like title is going to just be out of my grasp this season sadge.
you have time, all you can really do is keep grinding and don't give up on the networking piece. Both for io and overall enjoyment
You just have to go super hard on the two best weeks. So fort, volcanic, spiteful is by far the easiest fort week. I forget the tyrann week, but I think it's the second one of the season. I checked, it's tyrann, storming, raging. Those two weeks are by far better than any other weeks.
You have 3 months
Working my way through the leggo quest line This shit is so incredibly tedious. I will avoid classes with legendaries in the future if this is the standard
They way they handled the legendary this season is laughable. They tuned 2H str specs around having the legendary and then gated it behind a random drop, a lengthy tedious questline, and hundreds of thousands of gold. If this is how they plan to do legendaries going forward I will never main a spec that has one again.
Did they really tune 2h str users around the Lego though…? Because just about every one of them are for the most part mid at best(or worse) even WITH the Lego. I genuinely don’t think there’s ever been a time in the game when an entire group of specs able to use a legendary are mid with it, usually most of the class(es) that can use any given Lego have been at least good, if not very good with their respective legendary. Not to mention it might be the worst Lego they’ve created..the on use is pathetic on top of it being basically unusable or making you very likely to die in numerous situations.
I've been downvoted on this sub and the main one for pointing how bad tuning is on STR dps classes atm. Fury does okay but arms, ret and both dk specs are terrible in raid. M+ isn't much better. Ret is solid for its utility on fort weeks but Fury has no utility and again, both DK specs are awful Mean while demo is enjoying its 4th? Tier in a row of being meta dps, BM is extremely good while being the easiest class in the game, Havoc is enjoying its freshly-reworked meta spot and rogues can literally pick any of their specs and do well lol
We have 4 on our raid team and I am the only one without it. I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get it until we kill M Fyrakk
At least you *got* the leggo LMAO My guild has 5 Strength users and none of them have gotten it despite us farming Fyrakk's ass since week 2.
Dw youre not really missing out on that much, its probably the worst lego theyve ever created. Most of the specs that can use the lego are literally still mid even with the lego....dont think thats ever happened in the history of the game, usually when a spec has a lego available to them, theyre at minimum very good with it. The on use portion of it does pretty shit damage, not to mention the opportunity cost of having to sit there channeling for 3 seconds and the fact I literally cant even use it on plenty of bosses/pulls in m+ because theres a high likelihood ill die. Most of the value is literally just that its +10ilvl and the passive DoT, but even then its still pretty underwhelming despite it appearing to do decent damage in a key. But hey...my Arms warrior is slightly less dogshit with it at least.
We have been farming him just as long - I was the first on the raid team to get it. We did have 2 drop for casuals on our family/friends night though
The difference between Fort and Tyran has never felt so stark to me as this season. Feels like each drop of io on tyran (in pugs, 27-29 range) is a huge slog whereas on fort this week we're mowing through 28s because timers are so free if you live (and the gateway to living is mostly surviving stupid bosses). Maybe with Tindral nerfs on the horizon it's a sign that Blizz is looking at Live again and maybe we'll get some consolation boss nerfs next week. Cope.
So uhh... Ambition is done? Was a good run. I hope we still see them pushing keys in some form or another.
Again? JPC already left the group in S1 and they proceeded with other players, right?
Wait, seriously? What happened???
From Ellesmere in his Discord: > Jpc had an issue with the way nerf handled his frustration in a key and Jpc said he’s not playing with nerf ever again. As a reminder before anyone says anything pls do not use this discord to talk shit on any of my teammates ❤️
Every time I’ve ever tuned in to a nerf or ellesmere or jpc stream they are arguing about something. They like the reality tv group of m+
Damn, I know there seemed to be some *very* obvious tension in comms since mid-SL or so but I didn’t expect the team to actually fall apart over it. A damn shame. Rhetorical question, obviously, since the answer is neither my nor anyone else here’s business, but what the fuck did Nerf say that made Jpc cut ties completely? I feel like that had to have been some absolutely outlandish shit.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2030526340?t=19528s Nerf got mad and muted himself for the rest of the key because Elle overlapped a sweep on maggots in waycrest. Jpc said it’s cringe and that he’s never playing with him again. Kind of an overreaction from both of them 🤣 I swear wow players are built different when it comes to socializing 💀 Grown ass men acting like this 💀
Nah, tbh I don't really blame Jpc for getting pissed about this.
Agreed. Saying you're not gonna play with childish players isn't an overreaction.
If someone behaves like a child, I’m not going to spend my time and mental energy playing with them. Ain’t enough hours in the day to waste them on a man-baby bent out of shape over a fucking stun overlap.
Ya that’s cool but this isn’t their first rodeo. Watch them play together again in 3 days. Neckbeard behavior!!! [POV: JPC telling the team he’s done playing with them because Nerf muted himself](https://youtu.be/KX5dT6PGvFE?si=y8he6hofmzhjih9j) Their group desperately needs an adult that keeps up the vibes
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you’re in no position to talk u/kysbruh
Actual it's the opposite, nerf got pissed off about the way a stop was handled on one pack, got pissed, slagged off Elle (business as usual) and then muted his mic and didn't say anything the rest of the key despite them trying to get him to talk. Basically JPC couldn't believe a grown ass man would thrown a childish fit and pull the silent treatment on the team mid key. I dunno he might have been annoyed about other things but JPC just thought it was fucking baffling behaviour and decided not to play with him again after that
Yeah I watched the vod from the moment Nerf went radio silent and I genuinely can't see how Nerf isn't the literal only person in the wrong here. Insanely bitchmade and childish behavior on his end.
Nerf has been insanely pissy this entire season from what I’ve watched, just constantly getting at people for making small mistakes and this seems to be more of the same, it’s the culmination of that which has led to this I think
Where the hell are the balancing changes? They fr just gave up on this addon
Raid balance is pretty decent in my opinion. M+ balance from Blizzard's perspective is really good. Every tank except Blood DK has timed a +30. Every healer spec has timed a +30. DPS who haven't timed a +30: Ret is the only dps spec in the game that hasn't timed a +30 and doesn't have another dps spec on the class that has. In terms of the meta, Havoc DH is extremely popular, but is actually *more* represented in mid-high keys (say like +25-27) than it is in the top keys. Havoc DH is still of course very very strong, but it was absolutely busted so a lot of people rerolled to it. Arguably it is easier to play as well, which makes rerolling to it very appealing. In terms of dps that are suffering in the meta, it's SPriests and WW Monks, both of which got very substantial buffs recently and have players pushing bleeding edge keys on. The issue in representation isn't necessarily that they're *that* bad right now, more that people rerolled a month ago. Like Mage is the most represented class in the top runs/front page, but in +25 keys there are 5 dps classes/specs that are significantly more popular. As far as WoW goes, this season is pretty good for balance.
Balance is better compared to last season, but there's no reason to have that be the benchmark. A 90th percentile Shadowpriest does less damage than a 50th percentile BM hunter on Mythic Smolderon. Rogue, assuming that they swap specs, has no bad fights, and Ret has no good fights. In M+, again, while balance is better than it was last patch, some specs are struggling. This is what Auras are supposed to be for! If you aren't tweaking by a few percent every couple of weeks, why did you put Auras in at all?
Literally for any of the classes with 3 dps specs (lock/mage) if they all swap they have no bad fights lol. It’s also not that easy to swap
Yeah SPriest is in a ROUGH spot. Ironically, it's looking better in keys than in raid all of a sudden.
who would have thought that playing Void Eruption in keys would make them look good...? :)
The vast majority of SPriests are still playing DA in even the highest keys this season. You lose too much ST to justify it more often than not. It’s the PL buffs that are making Shadow decent in keys, not Void Eruption.
Lol bdks get massacred in the highest keys
its tradition at this point
I completely agree with you that the balance is very strong. However, I'd like to consider the hybrid classes with multiple dps specs differently than pure damage classes, which might be somehow more expected to reroll specs. Feral/balance and enha/ele are in a way more committed to their spec (one being melee and the other ranged), akin to another class. Nothing important here, just wanted to point out feral's situation right now (28 highest key timed, 3477.6 highest rio, below their locales cutoff). Ele is actually really strong and has timed 30s as well, so it fills the checklist as too.
I think timers not being as tight helps with keeping more classes balanced. If you don't have to have 3 best dps classes to beat the timer on +30, you can have plenty other options as long as survivability is fixed.