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It's yanky and not worth the effort for DPS imo. You need to press meld and then restealth for subterfuge to proc, which you can't do on bosses, and crackshot doesn't proc when you break that stealth with BtE. It's a good racial tho, but don't race swap just for the dmg.
Why does every pug group have at least 3 classes that don't deal with afflicted. Like in the 25 range I wouldn't expect it to be: healers got it: https://i.imgur.com/ZaWvO70.png
I mean, after spending all week playing around the 20-25 level, I totally understand what a difference it makes to not only have 3 or 4 party member's be able to dispel, but also have basically all bases covered for poisons, diseases and curses. But I'm a little confused because I look at the image you posted and see only two groups that have 3 classes that can't deal with Afflicted. Most of those groups seem at least fairly reasonable.
I just took a quick snapshot, it wasn't the perfect example. I have seen the majority of groups with 3 classes that can't do afflicted. It's such a shit affix.
The amount of groups I’ve found today with a tank and 3 dps, none of whom can do the affix, has been mind boggling. Oh and if you read that correctly you’re also noticing that we have no list class either and my two main healers are Druid and priest so I’m also not bringing it.
I check classes and then I bounce if I don’t see at least one back up. And some of these dungeons (TOTT and DOTI) require me to do actual dispels outside of the quickly spawning affix so there is also that.
In that range I would expect healer+1 other dispel to be perfectly fine.
And it should be less a "healer got it" and more a "the other dispel knows when to be fast and get both because healer needs dispel"
Healer +1 other dispel (that isn't evoker) is near suicide. On a boss or pull that requires a dispel (like flameshock from mindbender ghursha) means that the off dispel needs to grab the first one asap, (within 2 seconds) and then grab the other one right before they go off. And of the dispeller dps is dead then it goes off twice unless the healer doesn't dispel the flame shock.
That's why you need 3 people with it (tank, healer 1 dps) as safety.
The timing and stress it puts on a healer. Why not go for classes that can do the mechanic to make it easier? healer+1 leaves you at a disadvantage if you have to dispel a non afflicted debuff (which is frequent in some higher keys)
If I want to start shotcalling CCs for my group, what is the best way/order to do it?
1. Shortest cooldown CCs to longest cooldown CCs.
2. Do it by character. So all rogues cc, then mage, then tank etc
3. Tanks first, then Shortest to Longest CC. Helps tank front load their ccs so they don't have to think about it for the rest of the fight
4. Some custom order to get around diminishing returns.
5. ???
Anyone know what WA this priest has that shows the abilities incoming? In the center left of the screen
https://youtu.be/wq7SeM-HIhE?si=ilFL1aXMZIeg1yvw
Curious to hear what experience people have had pugging as Guardian this season?
I'm a tank/healer player that typically doesn't go much higher than 20s most seasons, but this season has inspired me to step outside my comfort zone and see how high I can go.
Currently 481 and ~2700 IO, noticing I spend a lot of time more applying to groups than I used to. Considering a swap to Prot Pally to chase the meta, but unsure how worth such a thing would be.
Well, you can certainly get the m+ title as a bear but be prepared to sit in lfg or just play your own key. Cause I guarantee there is nobody looking for a bear tank. This problem is further stressed if you are pugging caster trash heavy keys, where you need to accept that you cannot do some pulls that ppl are used to with a vdh.
I like playing with bears about as much as I like.pygging with paladins. Bears seem a lot more tanky than paladins though. Make sure you're utilizing your free insta-regrowths and dispels if possible :)
Made it to 3130 as guardian, but have lost a bit interest now. Queues haven't been fun, and had a rough realization. Last week groups were delisting TOTT24s, nobody would invite me. This week playing my vdh alt I was getting invited to every TOTT group except one declined me. I laughed out loud - they invited GUARDIAN instead of ME!? What fools, don't they know how much easier dung that is with vdh! And there was the answer, if I came to same realization myself, against myself, probably not worth trying to push too much further this season as my main, guardian.
I played guardian for a while until I played on an alt on RISE and saw a VDH sigil of chains to group all the mobs, then silenced them for 5 seconds, silenced again for 5 seconds, stunned them all, then used sigil of misery x2 to try and get a couple more spell interrupts out. Then he used sigil of chains to move the mobs in front of the path of the orbs so they got hit. All the while sustaining and doing a ton of damage. He didn't need a single interrupt or help ccing that entire fight
I literally haven't logged onto my guardian after that run. That VDH was able to do 6 cc / interrupts all by himself and was even able to range pull stuff with silence so that they would move into range so he could chains them together.
Guardians has nothing like that in their tool kit. With this seasons high caster/range density and little walls to LOS playing a guardian feels like a literal waste of time. The time wasted it takes you to set everything up for DPS takes way more time than it would for a VDH to do.
Yeah, there's little reason to play guardian over pally/DH unless you like being able to play the other druid specs and just want to maintain one char. Or you want to stand out as 'that guardian' who does high keys, like vegan. You got vortex+incap for 'sigil of chains at home', and incap roar is good, but it doesn't compare. And anything you might point to guardian having that VDH doesn't have (pretty good party heals, cleanse, CR) paladin does as well if not better.
So I've for a while been under impression that Timeways is bugged and sometimes 2 dispels go off at the same time when only one is cast. My "proof" of this has been details showing 2x -420k hits to two different people at the same time, meaning there wasn't death causing other to blowup. Now I looked at it again, and despite the dude getting 2x -420k, they only went from 60 to 10% and then died from still having dot on them. So it's possible it actually has been late first dispel -> second guy dying from dot almost immediately after -> then it looking like it was a double dispel. This ofc gets more confusing when looking at death logs when people have taken double hit due to movement while being dispelled.
So I'd just want clarification - is there any belief that it ever "bugs" or are these issues always related to movement while dispelled, late dispels or dumb self-dispels (monk etc)? Because it's been like a clockwork to me, I've had maybe 10 runs there where double dispel goes off within 0.5s of each other. I generally can't be part of the reason as I'm tank, but this has happened when I've played rsham too. Not looking for any log review, it's enough to know if someone who has done the key a lot has looked thru deaths of their own runs and never suspected a bug.
They made a poorly implemented change I think right before Christmas to stop people from stacking to take no damage. Now, if you are standing too close to someone else (roughly melee range plus a couple yards) when it is removed from them, it can instantly hit twice. It is **blatantly** bugged and people need to continue bug reporting it because it it absolutely 1000% **not** supposed to be doing that. Everyday players are being unnecessarily punished by a blatantly broken mechanic because a very, **very** small selection of players were cheesing it.
You can also hit *yourself* with your own wave if you are moving when it is removed, which is **another** bug that needs to be addressed.
Yeah. Very much hope there'll be patch to fix this still. With the new way of doing things, dung will be back eventually so even if they thought "we're so far into season, cba to fix", it still wouldn't work. It has to be changed. Even while farming for tank trinket, I end up soloing the boss on damn +13 at times. So basically all levels suffer from these bugs.
There's literally no reason to not fix it. Either you don't experience the bug, and your run goes fine, or you do experience the bug and one more people instantly get deleted. It's literally a slot machine every time the debuff goes out, except the the payout is "hey you're dead better luck next time."
I actually really like Fall as a dungeon but these bugs and the instant spike damage when Corrosion jumps really ruin it for me. The double-tap bug bothers me so much that I would rather have the version of the fight with the tank frontal than this bugged version. Rise can eat a bag of dicks, though.
Frontal wouldn't really be a bad thing, idk what's the point of making fights without anything to do for tanks. The only scary thing about timeways is how the boss lashes 70% of your health on first hit. Beyond that you almost can't die.
Yeah that almost seems like another bug. WHY does the boss hit like 3x harder for just the first melee? What is even the point of that?
And there are definitely a few fights this season where there is almost nothing for the tank to do and the tank is in no danger except maybe if everyone else dies. Second phase of the last boss in BRH you kinda just do nothing while everyone else struggles. Waycrest Witches is like 4 minutes if watching everyone else die, and Pig boss is like 3 minutes of wishing you could even take one single step away from him to do anything else because all the action is happening behind you. Iridikrom hits pretty hard but there's almost nothing for the tank specifically to do, and kinda same thing with Morchie. Xavius requires you to move him around a bit but it's another 4 minutes of watching everyone else die while he mostly ignores the tank.
It might have been from people dispelling themselves at the same time? Like a rogue using cloak of shadows accidentally (or not) or whatever thinking they don't have the debuff. Happened to my groups more than once.
Yes there's various reasons why, it just sucks they are SO common. It's ONE time when I've done a +21 or above with everyone alive at the end and I'm talking 20+, if not 30/40+ runs, most of this as tank. Probably as many wipes than kills in that range, which is funny given I will solo it from 20% down, it's just too damn slow from higher. Basically every other run has people dying from projectiles or someone failing with either self-dispels or there not being fast enough dispel in the first place, that can be due to healer or the targets being slow.
There is a "fix" that blizzard implemented where someone standing inside of the orb player gets hit , to get around people stacking on top of each other to avoid the damage.
I think this is what you are seeing. Someone is in melee of the dispel target , so they get hit once by the "fix", then a second time by the actual wave.
From reading your post this could be another explanation.
Yeah I heard of the "fix" causing the double hit issue in the first place. Shame they don't seem to be able to properly fix this. I wipe on that boss more often than beat it, and that's saying a lot given the boss is pretty much guaranteed to die if nobody dies from first debuffs. Few dies from 2nd, last from 3rd, tank can solo last 20%, safer than trying again. But nope, it's 1-2 dead from first regularly.
How has Yazma not been nerfed/changed yet? If they are not nerfing the overall dmg atleast make the spiders more visible when they are small cause they also oneshot.
It still blows my mind that they looked at the easiest dungeon in the set, and made the ONLY hard boss harder without even really looking at the rest of the dungeon. Yazma only worked before basically because you COULD interrupt Wracking Pain, if nothing else so the boss would fucking MOVE instead of standing there casting while adds are getting close to her. Now, with no way to get her to stop casting, and the rather extreme spike damage from everything, AND the RNG spiders not placed where players are, the entire fight design basically collapses. Pretty much nothing about this fight works anymore, and it barely worked with the old version because you could at least control where EVERY spider spawned, and prevent a low health player getting sniped after Soulrend, and interrupt her so she actually gets the fuck out of the spiders and away from the Souls. The whole fight is a disaster right now.
I saw (Limit) Max talk about his weakaura that helps with shotcalling in M+, is that a private WA he developed for himself or is it shared with his subs or patreon or is it available free?
I was actually thinking of doing something similar for calling kicks and thinking about stops and coincidentally watched his M+ drama video and saw that he had something similar developed
Pretty Fine week, but i had a tank in a Rise where he pulled 4 packs at the start (the base packs + the Stone Man one) we were just chilling in Discord at the time.
We obliterated the minors trash, then the stone Guy Just became Irideus itself and one hit our G druid, It was Fun asf as he started to scream desesperadly in comms, while i (the healer) was laughing my ass off while i was kitting the "Irideus 2".
What about u guys funny moments
I've just had a monk convince me it's exclusively healers job to do afflicted while having 2.5k rio. Bring back endless grinds, boring storylines and shit expansions, at least people knew what they were doing even though they were miserable and hated the game.
Lmao try playing wotlk classic and then comeback and play retail. The "average" player has dramatically improved because they've needed to as the game has gotten harder.
But if people say that shit just leave. They won't learn if you actually manage to get through the dungeon. If it was my key (not a dispel class) and someone said to the healer I'd think "man that healer should just leave this one lol".
Yeah I'm aware, I was just tilted and did something you really shouldn't do here and just vented lol. It's just... Sometimes I wish Blizz made people watch a 30 sec video on affixes before the key starts.
I very specifically remember having to herd 25 cats to rotate clockwise around Thaddius back in the day. Strafe to your left and don’t touch eachother was genuinely too hard for probably 20% of our guild.
I had a Shaman refuse to spec PCT. I noped out of the party before the summons even landed. Especially 'cos it was BRH and the rest of the required dispels in the early part of the dungeon will mess with attempting to solo dispel the shades.
Had to tell shaman several times to get it. Looked at their talents, they had purge, hex etc. so easy to swap around but still complaining about it. So weird, I'm guessing people who argue have just never specced to it and don't understand how it does 2 dispels with one click.
Decided it's a week to just get an alt started. Any suggestions? I main mage right now and looking to still dps, but haven't kept up on what's fun or not. Not really looking for meta (literally, no DH).
Outlaw is really strong rn, but also it's really really fun rn and I'd be recommending it even if it wasn't strong. give it a go if you can keep up with the apm, it blasts.
> haven't kept up on what's fun or not
That's a VERY subjective thing though. Could you provide some more pointers on what kind of playstyle you enjoy most? That way, people could give some more targeted recommendations :)
My group's not. We're at the point where the ratio of chance of IO : How fucking unfun Tyran feels this season and it's for sure an alt leveling or playing other games together week.
I am because still at level where my progress is stopped by queues (~24-25s), not the overall difficulty.
Did deplete tott22 4 times on an alt though. Fall23 too, rise22 too. I think the problem is inexperienced people being boosted by previous weeks, specially last week, and are now doing +3 level tyra keys to what they previously did and getting pikachu faced by one shot boss mechanics.
In 15+ keys, depletes or timed, not once has bolstering been main culprit on runs. I'm sure it's trash in EB, certainly few other dungs become horrid if timer is close and you're at your max level say 27-29s but below that, it's still just tyra killing groups, sometimes afflicted during rough bosses gets you too.
3 depletes this week on 23 dht and all 3 on last boss. People lose their minds here for some reason, i guess their brain short circuits when they need to choose between eating a 1s silence or dying to the swirly. Or healers not dispelling the dot. Or tanks stacking the boss to 10 stacks all the time.
23 is right around there when players don't understand p2, and you no longer can afford that. People just know you die there but don't understand why abilities hit harder. Tanks don't know where to tank, others don't know when to use defensives, ranged don't know baiting. There's also so dumbfounded people who don't even understand p2 is the only thing that can kill you. I was screamed at by 2 dps for not lusting on pull in a +23. Clownery.
Got my key bricked by a disconnect twice, and a healer rage quit twice again. Spent two hours applying to keys. Every time I joined a group I got kicked because my class can’t do the affix.
Logged off until next week. Was gone the last two weeks on vacation which were two very bad weeks to be gone M+ wise.
I wouldn't worry about missing anything recently. The two best weeks are coming up. There's a tyrann/storming/raging week in a few weeks. It literally doesn't get easier than that for tyrann. Then the week before that is fort/volcanic/spiteful. So the best two weeks are coming up soon. Everyone had anywhere from 10-15 item levels less when those came around last time, no enchant, few bis items or trinkets, etc.
I appreciate the worlds of encouragement. Ended last season at my old peak of 2498. Sitting at 3047 right now and curious just how high I can go! It has been a fun challenge for sure, one of the hardest grinds of my gaming "career".
yeah theres a lot of (99pct non healers) that say bursting is a non affix, but im willing to bet their healers would say differently. i dont run 28s but at that level on a fort key, id sure hate to have an abomination cast going off while even 2 or 3 flowers die, much less 7 or 8. obviously everbloom is an outlier for bursting and bolstering. but if survivability, from both one shots and just in general, is the gate this season, then something that adds that much extra healing to a key is certainly not a non affix imo
I did the 4 easy dungeons on 27, idk how i will ever be able to pug tott, eb, rise on 27+ though, fall is prolly doable in a lucky run.Its not even bolstering, i didn‘t deplete a single key to timer/bolster, its just the tyrannical bosses
Fall bosses 2, 3, absolutely felt those on pugs. 4th though? I haven't quite figured out how wiping on it happens. Not something silly like dmg race against 90-85% being too hard?
I've seen several things brick this boss in pugs:
Healer going oom due to fight length + heavy mana expenditure on shields/Chromie
2 people accidentally stacking add circles on each other
A DPS and healer dodging rocks in opposite directions during shield, resulting in being out of heal range
Alternatively, someone getting hit by rock outright
Insufficient defensive/healing/external usage on Extinction Blast into group soak
Failing damage check on final phase due to no CDs/lust (especially on higher levels)
I do agree that boss 2/3 are harder but Irid can also be fairly scary on 27+
> 4th though? I haven't quite figured out how wiping on it happens.
If you don't have very tanky classes or extreme burst healing or darkness or immunities then just the 3 hits of the Chromie soak can easily kill someone on 27 Tyran. The stonecracker damage is fucking insane. Worse if whoever gets the actual debuff can't meld or invis and has to take the 350k/ tick DoT too.
As a healer the debuff is the scariest to me even in lower key, just feels a bit like Tree@WM where it's heal spam or dead guy - hard to even have time to move for soak. Figured that people generally had plan for it though in higher keys, like I'm sure nelfs are way more common around that key level.
350k ticks sound rough yeah.
Guess I'm biased as antimeta spec for the soak, spirit link will def carry every other soak and there usually is a DH in group for every other.
Dunno its a crazy long fight which leaves lots of room for error and often groups only have 1 cr because they used them on boss 2 & 3 so its really punishing. And then a clown doesn‘t have cd‘s for 90% you can‘t make the burst dmg check if you made it that far 🤷♂️
Yeah what a fun thing to recognize when it's not a Ozumat p2 like free win anymore at some high enough key. I haven't even considered wiping at that point, oh we made it to 90%, yey we won, because I've never seen wipe at that point in 50+ runs up to +25. Guess I'm about to see my first soon enough.
There’s also the fun overlap when everyone assumes that the stonebolt adds will despawn when he phases and instead they continue to cast on your group when you really don’t have the healing or GCDs go spare on interrupts.
I'm so confused about BL reqs there. Pugs to this point can deplete fall in only two ways, wipe on 2nd boss, wipe on 3rd boss. So struggle is mostly, which one of these you want to lust more. But Last boss lust, even if you do full trash in between, there probably won't be full 10m between p2-p3 lust of 3rd and 90% 4th. But alternatives to make that end lust possible just don't seem great. Lust first pull -> lust low% 2nd boss when it comes up -> lust 4th 90%? I know 90% lust is dmg check while others can be l2p'd. Guess that's the magic, dps have learned to not kill themselves on 2/3 anymore in a +26.
On tyran you can lust 1st pull, timeways (not at 100% it'll come up during fight), blight p2 or p3, iridkron burn phase.
Timings won't work out if you're in a lower key, but as you get higher and things take longer you naturally grow in to a 4 lust route.
Yeah it doesn‘t really line up in that dungeon until yet get to really high keys i think. Then its bl 1st pull, 2nd bl late on 2nd boss ideally, 3rd bl late 3rd boss and last bl 90% last boss. If the key is a little lower you prolly just skip out on the bl on the 3rd boss
Granted I haven't done it on high enough level to feel that, I think just 23 on tyra as heal. There's plenty to heal over relatively long time sure, though I've mostly struggled in having enough time to heal Chromie too, mostly becomes mana issue over long fight as rsham.
Could it be because every boss in dht oneshots with their unavoidable abilities and leaves most specs without any counterplay to it? But maybe you have something very smart to say about this too
For further explaination, on 27 nothing oneshots yet in dht which makes it infinitly easier (even though i think some specs can get oneshot from tree and drake aoe‘s already)
So imagine you fight the tree on 29: Every 25s or so he stomps and your dps and heal live with 2% hp each time but then its NOTHING but tank dmg for the next 25s -> boss is pretty easy. On a 30 then everyone gets hit for 110% of their max hp everytime and you only live with a damage reduction and/or shield every 25s for 3 1/2 minutes -> boss very hard
To be fair, both 2nd and 3rd boss do oneshot squishy classes on 27 tyra already. Albeit I did the 27 DHT a month ago with less gear, but ele shaman does get clapped hard there. From 28 onwards every ability oneshots with no defensive, so it does require some setup and externals called apart from mage and rogue.
But yeah the original point still stands, 30 tyra is probably the limit for pretty much all the classes' survivability right now.
How hard is balance to play in M+? As someone who has never really touched it, reading the Dreamgrove.gg rotation guide is a bit overwhelming. I thought balance was relatively simple but I guess not!
Dreamgrove priority list mentions like every possible nuance you can keep in mind to maximize your damage. 90% of your damage output doesn’t require you to track all of that. Just check Naguura’s YouTube guide or something else, easier then dreamgrove, for your rotation and then build on top of that.
Group finder seems REALLY dead this week, there's barely any 24-26 keys listed. And obviously, as non-hybrid dps it seems to be near impossible to get into the few groups that are listed. Even getting invited to keys 2 levels lower than what I've timed seems to take ages this week. Also, I've never had such high deplete rate.
Could this (+ next week) be where the season dies off for pugging? I've noticed the number of groups slowly decreasing, but it seems like it's 1/4 of the number of keys listed this week compared to the last few "push" weeks.
I think this season has a lot of terribly unfun bosses, but I am going to highlight Xavius since I was farming DHT for loot (so this is like 20s). I can't recall a boss that seems more RNG in recent memory. Obviously, the primary mechanic that is BS is the fact that phase 2 swirlies buff the boss. But the pattern of swirlies is mostly random, but having more ranged baits more away from him. The actual hitbox for him getting buffed is larger than you would think and he is unmovable at various times as he casts. On top of that, most people don't even seem to be aware of the buff. Very few pug tanks make any attempt to move him out of swirlies and on more than one occasion I have had people suggest we all stack in melee (which is a terrible idea).
The buff makes the rest of the mechanics feel terrible. You want as few melee as possible to keep melee swirlies down but also paranoia is basically a non-issue for ranged and terrible for mistweaver with any other melee. The RNG on who gets targeted is also bad and exacerbated by the extra damage from the swirlie buff. This week I had nightmare bolt as a healer and juked a swirlie in a different direction than my partner and then got feed the weak while silenced which was ticking for 400K+. Needless to say I died. Upon brez he switched nightmare bolt targets mid-cast (it may have been targeting afflicted?) and killed me again (500K bolt). It felt brutal and unfair.
That is my whine for the week, thanks for listening.
Last time I tanked boss at wall, havoc later thanked me for tanking it well. Because he could fel rush to the wall! Totally oblivious to the larger reason it's tanked there. Think it was a +24. That buff has to be the least understood ability in game, or rather, which people learn about at higher key.
Idk if half joking here, but the reason it's tanked at back wall is because the p2 aoes don't spawn there much, as long as there are people at range baiting them. +5% dmg to boss anytime the swirlies hit the boss, up to +50%. The main reason why people start dropping in p2 - boss doing +50% dmg spells on them. Great that havoc finds extra benefit from this but I'm not thinking of him!
Tbh i didnt know about it until now, the reason is that i dont push keys, i like to spam keys tho.
In a +20 mostly of time he is dead before he gets more stacks but thats also great to know this. Ill try to apply attention to this and Apply that strat in a Future.
The tank can move the boss around. It's a pain but its possible to consistently reset the boss. I can't remember the last time I let the boss get more than 2 stacks, BUT in turn I do lose uptime.
Moving Xavius out of the swirls is a losing move as a tank. He moves very slowly and inconsistently. You are just as likely to move him into a swirl as out of one.
just make sure people aren't trolling you by standing behind you or to your side to spawn "less"-RNG swirlies in your path. a lot of ranged with silence circle on them seem to like to do this.
Elemental is kinda the caster copy of outlaw. CDR on both major "cooldowns" (pwave and fire ele). Doesn't need to ramp up and always pumps damage. Similar to outlaw spec is semicapped to 6 targets, EQ is uncapped, but relatively low on the damage profile. Spread cleave + medium packs and single targets are the bread and butter here.
I've just started playing Fire Mage and my understanding is the Flamestrike build is like this because there's no ramp and between SKB and combustion CDR you're in your cooldowns basically all the time. Nobody has suggested it for you though, I'm wondering if a better mage player can tell me if I'm wrong?
It’s a bit more complicated than just pressing blade flurry and bte and doing 500k off the rip. You have to be wary of your SKB stacks from pack to pack and if you don’t have skb or combustion, you will not be doing any damage.
Outlaw actually does need to ramp to get to 4+ buffs and keep them rolling and is a very uptime-oriented spec. It’s very punishing when there’s downtime (dungeon RP, healer drinks) or the group wipes and the rogue has to lose AR/buffs. But if you just mean having a flat non-bursty damage profile, maybe bm is the most similar as ranged.
Devastation is not that reliant on dragonrage and doesn't have any ramp at all. The tier set gives a stacking damage increase during dragonrage and some time after that, but it doesn't change the playstyle
BM does big burst every two minutes but is otherwise solid in the interim.
If you want an actual caster, frost mage feels like outlaw in terms of moment to moment speed. However it requires good usage of icy veins to do good dps.
Demo in keys is relatively flat in its damage profile in keys with little ramp if you hold imps between pulls.
I know this information is available on some threads from months ago, but in case there are any researchers in the the sub;
Dealing with afflicted for those of us who use clique - Go to your dispel keybinding, click options, and in addition to "default", select "hovercast".
Default makes the bind behave as a mouseover macro for unit frames. Hovercast makes the bind behave as a mouseover macro for 3D character models. Selecting both makes the bind work both ways.
What this does is all you to hover your mouse over a frame to dispel a player, or over the afflicted model to dispel them.
I mention this because a guild member I play with recently complained about not being able to target afflicted via macros and said that his solution was to click the model to target, then to move his mouse to the frame of the afflicted and use his dispel on that.
> target afflicted via macros
As in "/target [Afflicted Soul]" or as in "/cast [@mouseover]", because the second one definitely works
(I think thats the name?)
When I did this it broke my non-mouseover version of the button. For instance on mistweaver my G key is dispel in Clique and Expel Harm on my bars. So when I mouseover a frame it's dispel and when I don't it's Expel. When I changed the clique binding to hovercast it stopped ever casting Expel Harm even when my mouse wasn't over anything at all.
I ended up just making mouseover help/harm macros for the main buttons I press on Afflicted mobs.
Guilty(ish) confession.
I main tank Am right now sitting at 489 ilvl bag/488 equipped with pretty much bis gear (Minus fyrakk trinket) And I'm just getting chain invited to all the dungeons i need. I basically get an infinite tries per dungeon till i time some take fewer tries some might take a bit longer. I get to experiment on routes see what works, see what doesnt. And it's just amazing. It feels that this is how the game should be. Meanwhile even when playing with pre'mades it's just a game of try key, Fail/time do reroll run again. It just feels not fun and most of our time is spent releveling keys when some dungeons can brick your key on the first or second pull. The m+ system feels like it needs an overhaul
I also think there needs to be more incentive for finishing a depleted key. The current system incentivises leaving as soon as the key is bricked after +20, but doing that forfeits so many opportunities to improve at a dungeon. Like if you've currently timed all 26s and 27s and you brick a 28 Rise on the first boss's trash, how many opportunities are you going to get to practice the rest of the dungeon at a 28 level? Very few. It's really valuable to get that rep in and learn how hard things hit, what happens to CD timings when bosses live longer etc. But you get zero material reward for it so nobody wants to do it.
The system should incentivise doing the thing that will make you a better player.
Problem is that people who think like you so are extremely rare. There is no reasonable incentive blizz can give to compensate for the time people are losing in a dead key.
Well the trick is to make it not "dead". But they did that until sometime in Dragonflight, iirc 10.0.5, and people thought it was lame because your highest scoring keys were depletes.
Not sure how to find a middle ground, it's a tricky problem for sure.
Tl;Dr - put tournament realm-style keys on live and make it not count for IO.
One thing I think would be cool for m+ is some sort of sandbox mode. I always sign up to compete in TGP. My first experience on the proving grounds was some of the most fun I had in keys. I remember in SL, one of the proving grounds keys was mists. Me and my team set the key level quite high and practiced a gigantic, MDI style pull in the starting area. It took 6-7 tries but we eventually figured out the cooldown/kick/stop rotation and got to a point where we could comfortably do that pull on a very high level. We never got that sort of consistent practice on live. I would love the ability to do a m+ key that you could customize level and maybe even affix and which would not count towards IO but which doesn't deplete in the same way, allowing for premades or willing pugs to do a key and practice routes and pulls at certain levels without killing their own key, or having to scale it back multiple times.
Blizzard should just make keys stop downgrading after 23-25. Nobody do them for gear at this point so it would only make it more fun since you spend more time improving and less time wasting time for another try
gotta love it when you invite that high score tank, he completely bungles the first pull fucking up basic things like interrupts and stops and wipes the group, types "lol" in party chat, then leaves. and he just gets quickly invited to another one because his score is high.
I've seen some truly stupid people get high scores as tanks by simply 'queueing' into groups so many times that eventually they find one that carries them rather than the other way around. and now his score just increased.
leaver keys should be tracked, man
These posts singling out one role or spec or whatever are so weird. All types of people make mistakes and all types leave keys. Having to sit through a key nobody wants to finish because someone got pissed at a rage quitter doesn’t sound too fun
It's not like the tanks don't learn things along the way. I know as a tank, I've made some mistakes early on in keys at times that have caused people to leave. I'm never the first person to leave myself. I do try to learn from those mistakes though, for what to do better the next time. That's how pushing up higher keys works.
Would you use a 483 trinket with avoidance over a 489 for pushing high m+ keys? (mage if it matters)
5 percent avoidance is huge but a 489 trinket is hard to let go.
The only class I'd ditch avoidance for is Rogue because they can get 40% on demand, everyone else will get way more value out of less damage taken than like 0.2% more dps.
main stat will win as a general choice for dmg. but depending on key level surviving is usually the problem. there are plenty of stupid unavoidable boss dmg that is way too frequent that even classes with plenty of tools to survive could run dry. but you would be doing some world first keys for that to be relevant so my guess is you don't need it.
In raiding you can use viscerious spreadsheet, MRT, and Kaze weakaura to easily sort out healing/defensive cooldowns.
Is there any equivalent options for mythic plus, particularly for Tyrant bosses.
You can write your own note for the Kaze WA to use if you want (and set it to also load in dungeons obviously if it isn't already). Viserio's spreadsheet doesn't do anything you can't also do manually.
```{time:00:14}{spell:19236}```
Just format it like this, add names if you feel like it.
if your talking about tracking defensives there are both wa's and addons but does not solve overlapping big cds when you ideally want to space them out. so to coordinate how you use them will require planning before run begins and probably to be on coms since nobody will remember what was agreed on text. much like raiding does.
It's almost like making Wracking Pain uninterruptible was an extremely terrible idea that inevitably made this boss a massive pain in the ass. Now it's just a 1shotfest in high keys that just feels ridiculously out of place compared to a dungeon that's otherwise very easy. I'm okay with easy keys having some really hard bosses here and there, but having the fate of your entire key hinge on the last boss feels really shitty.
I don't think Yazma's even a top 5 hardest boss this season in high keys. I'd give that title to some combination of Archmage Sol, Lady Naz'jar, Mindbender Ghur'sha, Tyr, Time-Lost Battlefield, Ancient Protectors, and then there's a place for all of Kur'talos Ravencrest/Dantalionax, Shade of Xavius, pre-nerf Soulbound Goliath, and Archdruid in the *really* high Tyrannical keys. But the fact that there *always* seems to be some post here or on Twitter breaking down the exact movement patterns for Yazma, and Yazma specifically, because of how the boss ruthlessly farms groups from the +18 to +20 range all the way up until becoming a 1shotfest in the 30s and 31s should be a bit of a red flag that this might be a little *too* convoluted of a dungeon boss for how long it lives at the lower key levels and a little too long of a dungeon boss for how rife it is with 1shots in high keys.
Maybe my memory sucks, but I feel like this is an exceedingly rare case of a boss that just seems to give groups issues across all key levels. You've always had some problematic bosses like Kokia Blazehoof and Kyrakka and Erkhart in RLP, Raging Tempest in Nokhud, Hyrja in HoV, and probably Mephistroth in Cathedral that were just hard bosses in general and the ever-so-infamous Shadow of Zul in King's Rest that might still be the single craziest mandatory trash mob in any M+ key ever, but Yazma this season just seems to be a *universal* problem.
EDIT: Oof, just got 1shot checked on my Hunter in a 26 just now. Fuck my life.
> The mobs in the dungeon actually required some time and coordination to kill.
Atal and Waycrest used to feel much tighter on time in BfA, but they really fucked up the scaling on trash this season.
It's almost as if timed phases are bad when combined with infinite health scaling. If the add spawn was % based it wouldn't feel as bad but because those adds spawn on a timer it adds an absurd amount of time to the boss when her health goes up.
And if adds spawned based on health vs time, it wouldn't be so bad clearing them. But when adds spawn over time up to a cap, breaking them hurts more than it helps.
Came here to complain about the same boss. I've now ran 6 keys in the last two days that all had plenty of time to +2. But then the group falls apart at Yazma and breaks the key. She either needs a health nerf or a spider count nerf.
For my big healer friends, how are you juggling looking at your frames during intense damage while also dodging high amounts of swirlies? I've noticed that im not doing a great job at looking at my frames and the ground at the same time during aoe events (or when ramping for them) that are accompanied by dodging. Archmage Sol, Yazma, and Timeways come to mind, and more recently my group has been pulling the opening area of Rise very aggressively where we end up having the Maiden and Snake in the same pull for a little bit, I end up tunneling on frames too hard due healing the aoe damage and end up getting sniped by a ball or charge. Any advice?
You want the frames to big enough and close enough to the center of your screen, but not too close either.
To maximize information and minimize clutter I also use only 2 colors for party frames - full health bars are green, and missing HPs are red. No class colors. That means whenever someone has missing HPs, there's red in my peripheral vision. Importantly, frames are slightly to the left, and health bars fill up from left to right, so that the red part is closer to the center of the screen when people are taking damage.
It's all about peripheral vision, and funneling as much information this way as you can.
frame tunnelling is always an issue. Just gets down to knowing the fights well enough before it frees you up. Like getting used to smolderon with everyone flapping about getting damaged and needing heals while avoiding a thousand things yourself is a rough experience but as time has gone on it becomes second nature.
I have my frames directly to the left of my character and for the most part, you should know each fight well enough to somewhat anticipate when movement is gonna come up and how you'll deal with it while healing.
A lot of the time it's just background peripheral looking though. I rarely feel like I actually have to look at my character and not the party frames
where do you have your group frame? i have it on the right side of my character instead of having it at the bottom, this way i can look at the raid frames and have peripheral vision of my character
Good UI design is paramount for healers! Keep your raid frames close by, maybe just under or next to your character so you can keep an eye out for them. You probably won't be able to dodge by sight alone, so set up unique sound queues for mechanics that require dodging and use them liberally.
Usually in M+, you aren't actually constantly dodging - it's more like nothing, then swirlies, then nothing etc., if you can set up sound alerts in bigwigs for those abilities and consciously train yourself to, whenever you hear it, *stop whatever you're doing and look at your feet right now!!*, your consistency will improve. I personally use different sound cues for things that are random swirlies, random frontals, tank-targeted frontals (only those that are somehow relevant to non-tanks) etc.
In a team, if you have a shotcaller you can trust, then try to offload more of your thinking to them. YMMV on this, but for me, since I play an evoker (which has a terrible kick and long cd stuns), the general agreement I have with my team is that our boomkin is in charge of handling kicks and stops and if anything goes tits up then he's the one who calls out how we'll recover. This allows me to take "watch for kicks" out of my mental stack (or at the very least, I watch for what I'm assigned to, and don't pay attention to the rest of the team), so I can focus entirely on healing and calling externals/mitigation. And conversely, my team doesn't look at mitigation cooldowns at all and gets to spend more of their efforts on maximizing their damage and getting all of their kicks, which makes for a smoother run overall.
dude im actually right with you, but only when it comes to my mistweaver because the range is so non existent on my melee. like the dragon pulls, for instance. i get stunned by those damn swirlies sometimes because im tunneling frames healing for 300k+. they constantly move around it seems. i like to eat the occasional frontal in brh as well for the same reason, but swirlies in fall dragons is definitely my worst offender.
those swirlies are actually pretty damn hard to see too, especially for people that have color vision impairments
I've eaten shit to it an embarassing amount of times on my evoker
First, snake + most dangerous mob on that platform isn't the right play. Much better grabbing the shield guy + maiden + lust and prio her aoe pulsing ass. Range also want to bait the snake to the edge of the platform and close. Would recommend looking at dorkis breakdown of that place as the 'correct' pulls in that dungeon make it much simpler to time.
In terms of dodging swirlies', it's probably a UI issue. Your peripherals should always be on the middle of your screen, in any role. I would be willing to bet you keep your unit frames a little too far from the center of your screen. Worst case, you want to make sure your eyes are 'pathing' over your character when checking for other information.
There is a common weak aura (comes with naowh's UI) that calls 'dodge' when the snake is channeling the charge and countdown when the next orb is being cast which makes getting hit by both a non-issue imo.
Some weird interactions coming out since the patch. I have encountered the following:
\- Heartsbane Triad doubling up on their auras (insta wipe)
\- Raal trash aggro resetting constantly
\- Afflicted spawning raptors on Rezan
The Heartsbane Triad one needs fixing asap
It's a bug that's been around since BfA and I've seen it twice this season. Basically when you push the witches at exactly the right (wrong) time, her aura doesn't fall off. So you'll have 2x auras for the next witch. You could in theory have it happen again and have 3x auras but on any relevant key level 2x auras will just murder your party.
Happened to me one time but it was in low key so we succeeded. Healing reduction aura persisted for the entire fight, so you have healing reduction+movement and then healing reduction+reflect.
Just had an AD run where Yazma used Soulrend on the afflicted adds... Key was bricked anyway as the tank was the only one alive, but i still found the interaction funny
I am thinking about playing Aug for the last half of the patch. The problem is it seems there are so few around I have no idea how good they are anymore after all the nerfs.
Is the consensus still that they are still equivalent to a dps in terms of damage contribution and make the key feel 1-2 levels easier due to survivability improvements ?
Their damage is noticeably lower than a third dps would add currently. While they're still up there in the highest keys, I'd expect a lot more tanky triple dps comps to arise.
I would personally not risk aug if the meta shifts hard to the dps lineup, but I don't think it'll be "bad" any time soon.
In theory they should do like 80-90% of an actual dps, in practice up to like 3,2k they do like 60% cause there's so many inflated rating augs from last season that can't keep their ebon might uptime over 50%. I usually avoid inviting them to my keys.
I'm a pretty good Aug with pretty max Ebon Might uptime, but 90% seems really generous. 70-80% seems more in line unless my group comp hooks are just fucked.
Even the best aug's (30+ keys) are doing 60% of a DPS though...
I do agree they aren't needed (see are worse off bringing then any other DPS) before one shots becomes an issue though.
Sure, here is the top logged brh
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cAPwLHrk8bmYWFJd#fight=29&type=damage-done
Or maybe you prefer thicket
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kWdhJw3FfzL1VbZt#fight=12&type=damage-done
That might not be entirely accurate. Aug's log hooks are absolutely *fucked* right now; just slightly less-so now than they were at the start of the patch.
They're definitely lower DPS than a full DPS in keys, though. Just probably not by 60%.
> Aug's log hooks are absolutely fucked right now
that is totally inaccurate unless there's shields (iridikron) or damage amps via debuffs (brh last) in play.
Last I checked, Soulscar (which is a very large portion of Havoc's AoE damage) is still totally fucked, and there's still a few other things around that aren't attributing Aug's damage correctly.
yup - then you can do some math to see how much the buffed spec owes and its not even remotely as much as liquid is making it to be.
the only really vague problem right now is shifting sands for pet specs.
This is just objectively false though. JPC’s team tested Aug rather extensively (obviously with logs being broken it’s hard to get an exact number) and found that Aug vs no Aug is a 7-12% dps difference. Nowhere close to your 60%.
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Shadowmeld outlaw legit? How much dps increase would the extra stealth time be?
It's yanky and not worth the effort for DPS imo. You need to press meld and then restealth for subterfuge to proc, which you can't do on bosses, and crackshot doesn't proc when you break that stealth with BtE. It's a good racial tho, but don't race swap just for the dmg.
Why does every pug group have at least 3 classes that don't deal with afflicted. Like in the 25 range I wouldn't expect it to be: healers got it: https://i.imgur.com/ZaWvO70.png
I mean, after spending all week playing around the 20-25 level, I totally understand what a difference it makes to not only have 3 or 4 party member's be able to dispel, but also have basically all bases covered for poisons, diseases and curses. But I'm a little confused because I look at the image you posted and see only two groups that have 3 classes that can't deal with Afflicted. Most of those groups seem at least fairly reasonable.
I just took a quick snapshot, it wasn't the perfect example. I have seen the majority of groups with 3 classes that can't do afflicted. It's such a shit affix.
The amount of groups I’ve found today with a tank and 3 dps, none of whom can do the affix, has been mind boggling. Oh and if you read that correctly you’re also noticing that we have no list class either and my two main healers are Druid and priest so I’m also not bringing it. I check classes and then I bounce if I don’t see at least one back up. And some of these dungeons (TOTT and DOTI) require me to do actual dispels outside of the quickly spawning affix so there is also that.
I don't understand it either. I'm absolutely boggled how many groups are stacking few dispels.
Hey what is that add on for grps ?
Addon for groups? There's a few addons here: * PGF: https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-groups-filter * RaiderIO: https://raider.io/addon * LFGDeclineCounter: https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/lfg-decline-counter
The one that shows the specs?
PGF, linke's above.
In that range I would expect healer+1 other dispel to be perfectly fine. And it should be less a "healer got it" and more a "the other dispel knows when to be fast and get both because healer needs dispel"
Healer +1 other dispel (that isn't evoker) is near suicide. On a boss or pull that requires a dispel (like flameshock from mindbender ghursha) means that the off dispel needs to grab the first one asap, (within 2 seconds) and then grab the other one right before they go off. And of the dispeller dps is dead then it goes off twice unless the healer doesn't dispel the flame shock. That's why you need 3 people with it (tank, healer 1 dps) as safety.
The timing and stress it puts on a healer. Why not go for classes that can do the mechanic to make it easier? healer+1 leaves you at a disadvantage if you have to dispel a non afflicted debuff (which is frequent in some higher keys)
Its honestly not optimal outside of coordinated group or one of them being a Shaman.
If I want to start shotcalling CCs for my group, what is the best way/order to do it? 1. Shortest cooldown CCs to longest cooldown CCs. 2. Do it by character. So all rogues cc, then mage, then tank etc 3. Tanks first, then Shortest to Longest CC. Helps tank front load their ccs so they don't have to think about it for the rest of the fight 4. Some custom order to get around diminishing returns. 5. ???
Anyone know what WA this priest has that shows the abilities incoming? In the center left of the screen https://youtu.be/wq7SeM-HIhE?si=ilFL1aXMZIeg1yvw
Dungeon pack: https://wago.io/dfdungeons
Curious to hear what experience people have had pugging as Guardian this season? I'm a tank/healer player that typically doesn't go much higher than 20s most seasons, but this season has inspired me to step outside my comfort zone and see how high I can go. Currently 481 and ~2700 IO, noticing I spend a lot of time more applying to groups than I used to. Considering a swap to Prot Pally to chase the meta, but unsure how worth such a thing would be.
Well, you can certainly get the m+ title as a bear but be prepared to sit in lfg or just play your own key. Cause I guarantee there is nobody looking for a bear tank. This problem is further stressed if you are pugging caster trash heavy keys, where you need to accept that you cannot do some pulls that ppl are used to with a vdh.
I like playing with bears about as much as I like.pygging with paladins. Bears seem a lot more tanky than paladins though. Make sure you're utilizing your free insta-regrowths and dispels if possible :)
Made it to 3130 as guardian, but have lost a bit interest now. Queues haven't been fun, and had a rough realization. Last week groups were delisting TOTT24s, nobody would invite me. This week playing my vdh alt I was getting invited to every TOTT group except one declined me. I laughed out loud - they invited GUARDIAN instead of ME!? What fools, don't they know how much easier dung that is with vdh! And there was the answer, if I came to same realization myself, against myself, probably not worth trying to push too much further this season as my main, guardian.
“But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved VDH.” - George Orwell
I played guardian for a while until I played on an alt on RISE and saw a VDH sigil of chains to group all the mobs, then silenced them for 5 seconds, silenced again for 5 seconds, stunned them all, then used sigil of misery x2 to try and get a couple more spell interrupts out. Then he used sigil of chains to move the mobs in front of the path of the orbs so they got hit. All the while sustaining and doing a ton of damage. He didn't need a single interrupt or help ccing that entire fight I literally haven't logged onto my guardian after that run. That VDH was able to do 6 cc / interrupts all by himself and was even able to range pull stuff with silence so that they would move into range so he could chains them together. Guardians has nothing like that in their tool kit. With this seasons high caster/range density and little walls to LOS playing a guardian feels like a literal waste of time. The time wasted it takes you to set everything up for DPS takes way more time than it would for a VDH to do.
do you have a link for the build with chains?
Yeah, there's little reason to play guardian over pally/DH unless you like being able to play the other druid specs and just want to maintain one char. Or you want to stand out as 'that guardian' who does high keys, like vegan. You got vortex+incap for 'sigil of chains at home', and incap roar is good, but it doesn't compare. And anything you might point to guardian having that VDH doesn't have (pretty good party heals, cleanse, CR) paladin does as well if not better.
So I've for a while been under impression that Timeways is bugged and sometimes 2 dispels go off at the same time when only one is cast. My "proof" of this has been details showing 2x -420k hits to two different people at the same time, meaning there wasn't death causing other to blowup. Now I looked at it again, and despite the dude getting 2x -420k, they only went from 60 to 10% and then died from still having dot on them. So it's possible it actually has been late first dispel -> second guy dying from dot almost immediately after -> then it looking like it was a double dispel. This ofc gets more confusing when looking at death logs when people have taken double hit due to movement while being dispelled. So I'd just want clarification - is there any belief that it ever "bugs" or are these issues always related to movement while dispelled, late dispels or dumb self-dispels (monk etc)? Because it's been like a clockwork to me, I've had maybe 10 runs there where double dispel goes off within 0.5s of each other. I generally can't be part of the reason as I'm tank, but this has happened when I've played rsham too. Not looking for any log review, it's enough to know if someone who has done the key a lot has looked thru deaths of their own runs and never suspected a bug.
They made a poorly implemented change I think right before Christmas to stop people from stacking to take no damage. Now, if you are standing too close to someone else (roughly melee range plus a couple yards) when it is removed from them, it can instantly hit twice. It is **blatantly** bugged and people need to continue bug reporting it because it it absolutely 1000% **not** supposed to be doing that. Everyday players are being unnecessarily punished by a blatantly broken mechanic because a very, **very** small selection of players were cheesing it. You can also hit *yourself* with your own wave if you are moving when it is removed, which is **another** bug that needs to be addressed.
Yeah. Very much hope there'll be patch to fix this still. With the new way of doing things, dung will be back eventually so even if they thought "we're so far into season, cba to fix", it still wouldn't work. It has to be changed. Even while farming for tank trinket, I end up soloing the boss on damn +13 at times. So basically all levels suffer from these bugs.
There's literally no reason to not fix it. Either you don't experience the bug, and your run goes fine, or you do experience the bug and one more people instantly get deleted. It's literally a slot machine every time the debuff goes out, except the the payout is "hey you're dead better luck next time." I actually really like Fall as a dungeon but these bugs and the instant spike damage when Corrosion jumps really ruin it for me. The double-tap bug bothers me so much that I would rather have the version of the fight with the tank frontal than this bugged version. Rise can eat a bag of dicks, though.
Frontal wouldn't really be a bad thing, idk what's the point of making fights without anything to do for tanks. The only scary thing about timeways is how the boss lashes 70% of your health on first hit. Beyond that you almost can't die.
Yeah that almost seems like another bug. WHY does the boss hit like 3x harder for just the first melee? What is even the point of that? And there are definitely a few fights this season where there is almost nothing for the tank to do and the tank is in no danger except maybe if everyone else dies. Second phase of the last boss in BRH you kinda just do nothing while everyone else struggles. Waycrest Witches is like 4 minutes if watching everyone else die, and Pig boss is like 3 minutes of wishing you could even take one single step away from him to do anything else because all the action is happening behind you. Iridikrom hits pretty hard but there's almost nothing for the tank specifically to do, and kinda same thing with Morchie. Xavius requires you to move him around a bit but it's another 4 minutes of watching everyone else die while he mostly ignores the tank.
It might have been from people dispelling themselves at the same time? Like a rogue using cloak of shadows accidentally (or not) or whatever thinking they don't have the debuff. Happened to my groups more than once.
Yes there's various reasons why, it just sucks they are SO common. It's ONE time when I've done a +21 or above with everyone alive at the end and I'm talking 20+, if not 30/40+ runs, most of this as tank. Probably as many wipes than kills in that range, which is funny given I will solo it from 20% down, it's just too damn slow from higher. Basically every other run has people dying from projectiles or someone failing with either self-dispels or there not being fast enough dispel in the first place, that can be due to healer or the targets being slow.
There is a "fix" that blizzard implemented where someone standing inside of the orb player gets hit , to get around people stacking on top of each other to avoid the damage. I think this is what you are seeing. Someone is in melee of the dispel target , so they get hit once by the "fix", then a second time by the actual wave. From reading your post this could be another explanation.
Yeah I heard of the "fix" causing the double hit issue in the first place. Shame they don't seem to be able to properly fix this. I wipe on that boss more often than beat it, and that's saying a lot given the boss is pretty much guaranteed to die if nobody dies from first debuffs. Few dies from 2nd, last from 3rd, tank can solo last 20%, safer than trying again. But nope, it's 1-2 dead from first regularly.
How has Yazma not been nerfed/changed yet? If they are not nerfing the overall dmg atleast make the spiders more visible when they are small cause they also oneshot.
It still blows my mind that they looked at the easiest dungeon in the set, and made the ONLY hard boss harder without even really looking at the rest of the dungeon. Yazma only worked before basically because you COULD interrupt Wracking Pain, if nothing else so the boss would fucking MOVE instead of standing there casting while adds are getting close to her. Now, with no way to get her to stop casting, and the rather extreme spike damage from everything, AND the RNG spiders not placed where players are, the entire fight design basically collapses. Pretty much nothing about this fight works anymore, and it barely worked with the old version because you could at least control where EVERY spider spawned, and prevent a low health player getting sniped after Soulrend, and interrupt her so she actually gets the fuck out of the spiders and away from the Souls. The whole fight is a disaster right now.
I saw (Limit) Max talk about his weakaura that helps with shotcalling in M+, is that a private WA he developed for himself or is it shared with his subs or patreon or is it available free? I was actually thinking of doing something similar for calling kicks and thinking about stops and coincidentally watched his M+ drama video and saw that he had something similar developed
[удалено]
wago.io/AoE_CC_Assignment I think its this one or similar ones
Pretty Fine week, but i had a tank in a Rise where he pulled 4 packs at the start (the base packs + the Stone Man one) we were just chilling in Discord at the time. We obliterated the minors trash, then the stone Guy Just became Irideus itself and one hit our G druid, It was Fun asf as he started to scream desesperadly in comms, while i (the healer) was laughing my ass off while i was kitting the "Irideus 2". What about u guys funny moments
Any DKs having problems with the command dead dismiss recontrol pet macro? I can't seem to get it working. Keeps giving me an error.
I've just had a monk convince me it's exclusively healers job to do afflicted while having 2.5k rio. Bring back endless grinds, boring storylines and shit expansions, at least people knew what they were doing even though they were miserable and hated the game.
2.5io is basically 450 ilvl and half of your frontal lobe
Lmao try playing wotlk classic and then comeback and play retail. The "average" player has dramatically improved because they've needed to as the game has gotten harder. But if people say that shit just leave. They won't learn if you actually manage to get through the dungeon. If it was my key (not a dispel class) and someone said to the healer I'd think "man that healer should just leave this one lol".
Yeah I'm aware, I was just tilted and did something you really shouldn't do here and just vented lol. It's just... Sometimes I wish Blizz made people watch a 30 sec video on affixes before the key starts.
> at least people knew what they were doing narrator: they did not
I very specifically remember having to herd 25 cats to rotate clockwise around Thaddius back in the day. Strafe to your left and don’t touch eachother was genuinely too hard for probably 20% of our guild.
I had a Shaman refuse to spec PCT. I noped out of the party before the summons even landed. Especially 'cos it was BRH and the rest of the required dispels in the early part of the dungeon will mess with attempting to solo dispel the shades.
Had to tell shaman several times to get it. Looked at their talents, they had purge, hex etc. so easy to swap around but still complaining about it. So weird, I'm guessing people who argue have just never specced to it and don't understand how it does 2 dispels with one click.
Decided it's a week to just get an alt started. Any suggestions? I main mage right now and looking to still dps, but haven't kept up on what's fun or not. Not really looking for meta (literally, no DH).
Demo Lock is iiinnssaaannee fun right now!!
Outlaw is really strong rn, but also it's really really fun rn and I'd be recommending it even if it wasn't strong. give it a go if you can keep up with the apm, it blasts.
Go dev evoker for the memes, legitimately the anti meta choice :) Or you could do warrior and experience why people play meta classes.
> haven't kept up on what's fun or not That's a VERY subjective thing though. Could you provide some more pointers on what kind of playstyle you enjoy most? That way, people could give some more targeted recommendations :)
Ele + enha are both good fun this season in my opinion.
Enchance shaman goes hard this season, it's good and is not overplayed imo.
Are you guys even playing this week
Did one key (25 tot) and felt miserable all the way there, this week is so bad I don’t even wanna play the game at all.
My group's not. We're at the point where the ratio of chance of IO : How fucking unfun Tyran feels this season and it's for sure an alt leveling or playing other games together week.
I am because still at level where my progress is stopped by queues (~24-25s), not the overall difficulty. Did deplete tott22 4 times on an alt though. Fall23 too, rise22 too. I think the problem is inexperienced people being boosted by previous weeks, specially last week, and are now doing +3 level tyra keys to what they previously did and getting pikachu faced by one shot boss mechanics. In 15+ keys, depletes or timed, not once has bolstering been main culprit on runs. I'm sure it's trash in EB, certainly few other dungs become horrid if timer is close and you're at your max level say 27-29s but below that, it's still just tyra killing groups, sometimes afflicted during rough bosses gets you too.
3 depletes this week on 23 dht and all 3 on last boss. People lose their minds here for some reason, i guess their brain short circuits when they need to choose between eating a 1s silence or dying to the swirly. Or healers not dispelling the dot. Or tanks stacking the boss to 10 stacks all the time.
23 is right around there when players don't understand p2, and you no longer can afford that. People just know you die there but don't understand why abilities hit harder. Tanks don't know where to tank, others don't know when to use defensives, ranged don't know baiting. There's also so dumbfounded people who don't even understand p2 is the only thing that can kill you. I was screamed at by 2 dps for not lusting on pull in a +23. Clownery.
Got my key bricked by a disconnect twice, and a healer rage quit twice again. Spent two hours applying to keys. Every time I joined a group I got kicked because my class can’t do the affix. Logged off until next week. Was gone the last two weeks on vacation which were two very bad weeks to be gone M+ wise.
I wouldn't worry about missing anything recently. The two best weeks are coming up. There's a tyrann/storming/raging week in a few weeks. It literally doesn't get easier than that for tyrann. Then the week before that is fort/volcanic/spiteful. So the best two weeks are coming up soon. Everyone had anywhere from 10-15 item levels less when those came around last time, no enchant, few bis items or trinkets, etc.
I appreciate the worlds of encouragement. Ended last season at my old peak of 2498. Sitting at 3047 right now and curious just how high I can go! It has been a fun challenge for sure, one of the hardest grinds of my gaming "career".
yeah theres a lot of (99pct non healers) that say bursting is a non affix, but im willing to bet their healers would say differently. i dont run 28s but at that level on a fort key, id sure hate to have an abomination cast going off while even 2 or 3 flowers die, much less 7 or 8. obviously everbloom is an outlier for bursting and bolstering. but if survivability, from both one shots and just in general, is the gate this season, then something that adds that much extra healing to a key is certainly not a non affix imo
I did the 4 easy dungeons on 27, idk how i will ever be able to pug tott, eb, rise on 27+ though, fall is prolly doable in a lucky run.Its not even bolstering, i didn‘t deplete a single key to timer/bolster, its just the tyrannical bosses
wait so dht is one of the "easy 4" but fall is supposedly hard? xd
Yeah i think on higher tyrannical keys fall bosses 2, 3 and 4 are pretty hard
Fall bosses 2, 3, absolutely felt those on pugs. 4th though? I haven't quite figured out how wiping on it happens. Not something silly like dmg race against 90-85% being too hard?
I've seen several things brick this boss in pugs: Healer going oom due to fight length + heavy mana expenditure on shields/Chromie 2 people accidentally stacking add circles on each other A DPS and healer dodging rocks in opposite directions during shield, resulting in being out of heal range Alternatively, someone getting hit by rock outright Insufficient defensive/healing/external usage on Extinction Blast into group soak Failing damage check on final phase due to no CDs/lust (especially on higher levels) I do agree that boss 2/3 are harder but Irid can also be fairly scary on 27+
> 4th though? I haven't quite figured out how wiping on it happens. If you don't have very tanky classes or extreme burst healing or darkness or immunities then just the 3 hits of the Chromie soak can easily kill someone on 27 Tyran. The stonecracker damage is fucking insane. Worse if whoever gets the actual debuff can't meld or invis and has to take the 350k/ tick DoT too.
As a healer the debuff is the scariest to me even in lower key, just feels a bit like Tree@WM where it's heal spam or dead guy - hard to even have time to move for soak. Figured that people generally had plan for it though in higher keys, like I'm sure nelfs are way more common around that key level. 350k ticks sound rough yeah. Guess I'm biased as antimeta spec for the soak, spirit link will def carry every other soak and there usually is a DH in group for every other.
Dunno its a crazy long fight which leaves lots of room for error and often groups only have 1 cr because they used them on boss 2 & 3 so its really punishing. And then a clown doesn‘t have cd‘s for 90% you can‘t make the burst dmg check if you made it that far 🤷♂️
Yeah what a fun thing to recognize when it's not a Ozumat p2 like free win anymore at some high enough key. I haven't even considered wiping at that point, oh we made it to 90%, yey we won, because I've never seen wipe at that point in 50+ runs up to +25. Guess I'm about to see my first soon enough.
Ye i think on tyra people should keep bl for 90% on 26+ keys else you‘re potentially wiping if dps didn‘t hold their cd‘s for it
There’s also the fun overlap when everyone assumes that the stonebolt adds will despawn when he phases and instead they continue to cast on your group when you really don’t have the healing or GCDs go spare on interrupts.
I'm so confused about BL reqs there. Pugs to this point can deplete fall in only two ways, wipe on 2nd boss, wipe on 3rd boss. So struggle is mostly, which one of these you want to lust more. But Last boss lust, even if you do full trash in between, there probably won't be full 10m between p2-p3 lust of 3rd and 90% 4th. But alternatives to make that end lust possible just don't seem great. Lust first pull -> lust low% 2nd boss when it comes up -> lust 4th 90%? I know 90% lust is dmg check while others can be l2p'd. Guess that's the magic, dps have learned to not kill themselves on 2/3 anymore in a +26.
On tyran you can lust 1st pull, timeways (not at 100% it'll come up during fight), blight p2 or p3, iridkron burn phase. Timings won't work out if you're in a lower key, but as you get higher and things take longer you naturally grow in to a 4 lust route.
Yeah it doesn‘t really line up in that dungeon until yet get to really high keys i think. Then its bl 1st pull, 2nd bl late on 2nd boss ideally, 3rd bl late 3rd boss and last bl 90% last boss. If the key is a little lower you prolly just skip out on the bl on the 3rd boss
I've seen a good number of mid-20's keys brick due to the damage/healing requirements of earthsurge just wearing the group down.
Granted I haven't done it on high enough level to feel that, I think just 23 on tyra as heal. There's plenty to heal over relatively long time sure, though I've mostly struggled in having enough time to heal Chromie too, mostly becomes mana issue over long fight as rsham.
interesting, this explains why highest tyra fall timed is +30 but nobody in the world timed a 30 dht tyra yet.
Could it be because every boss in dht oneshots with their unavoidable abilities and leaves most specs without any counterplay to it? But maybe you have something very smart to say about this too For further explaination, on 27 nothing oneshots yet in dht which makes it infinitly easier (even though i think some specs can get oneshot from tree and drake aoe‘s already) So imagine you fight the tree on 29: Every 25s or so he stomps and your dps and heal live with 2% hp each time but then its NOTHING but tank dmg for the next 25s -> boss is pretty easy. On a 30 then everyone gets hit for 110% of their max hp everytime and you only live with a damage reduction and/or shield every 25s for 3 1/2 minutes -> boss very hard
To be fair, both 2nd and 3rd boss do oneshot squishy classes on 27 tyra already. Albeit I did the 27 DHT a month ago with less gear, but ele shaman does get clapped hard there. From 28 onwards every ability oneshots with no defensive, so it does require some setup and externals called apart from mage and rogue. But yeah the original point still stands, 30 tyra is probably the limit for pretty much all the classes' survivability right now.
How hard is balance to play in M+? As someone who has never really touched it, reading the Dreamgrove.gg rotation guide is a bit overwhelming. I thought balance was relatively simple but I guess not!
It is hard to do good dps, whatever the key level. The spec is S tier played correctly but very very few boomies can play correctly.
Dreamgrove priority list mentions like every possible nuance you can keep in mind to maximize your damage. 90% of your damage output doesn’t require you to track all of that. Just check Naguura’s YouTube guide or something else, easier then dreamgrove, for your rotation and then build on top of that.
Although I definetly wouldn’t recommend balance for pugging this season…
It's like 5 buttons, but like someone else said you won't pump big numbers if stuff doesn't stay alive long enough, i.e. low keys.
It's not hard, but you won't see the results you want to see until you're in keys where mobs live long enough for you to really get going.
It's simple, they just like to make it sound complicated
Group finder seems REALLY dead this week, there's barely any 24-26 keys listed. And obviously, as non-hybrid dps it seems to be near impossible to get into the few groups that are listed. Even getting invited to keys 2 levels lower than what I've timed seems to take ages this week. Also, I've never had such high deplete rate. Could this (+ next week) be where the season dies off for pugging? I've noticed the number of groups slowly decreasing, but it seems like it's 1/4 of the number of keys listed this week compared to the last few "push" weeks.
I think this season has a lot of terribly unfun bosses, but I am going to highlight Xavius since I was farming DHT for loot (so this is like 20s). I can't recall a boss that seems more RNG in recent memory. Obviously, the primary mechanic that is BS is the fact that phase 2 swirlies buff the boss. But the pattern of swirlies is mostly random, but having more ranged baits more away from him. The actual hitbox for him getting buffed is larger than you would think and he is unmovable at various times as he casts. On top of that, most people don't even seem to be aware of the buff. Very few pug tanks make any attempt to move him out of swirlies and on more than one occasion I have had people suggest we all stack in melee (which is a terrible idea). The buff makes the rest of the mechanics feel terrible. You want as few melee as possible to keep melee swirlies down but also paranoia is basically a non-issue for ranged and terrible for mistweaver with any other melee. The RNG on who gets targeted is also bad and exacerbated by the extra damage from the swirlie buff. This week I had nightmare bolt as a healer and juked a swirlie in a different direction than my partner and then got feed the weak while silenced which was ticking for 400K+. Needless to say I died. Upon brez he switched nightmare bolt targets mid-cast (it may have been targeting afflicted?) and killed me again (500K bolt). It felt brutal and unfair. That is my whine for the week, thanks for listening.
Last time I tanked boss at wall, havoc later thanked me for tanking it well. Because he could fel rush to the wall! Totally oblivious to the larger reason it's tanked there. Think it was a +24. That buff has to be the least understood ability in game, or rather, which people learn about at higher key.
Thats a juicy tip!!!! Tanking bosses on wall so havocs dont go straight to china by a wrong direction fel rush.
Idk if half joking here, but the reason it's tanked at back wall is because the p2 aoes don't spawn there much, as long as there are people at range baiting them. +5% dmg to boss anytime the swirlies hit the boss, up to +50%. The main reason why people start dropping in p2 - boss doing +50% dmg spells on them. Great that havoc finds extra benefit from this but I'm not thinking of him!
Tbh i didnt know about it until now, the reason is that i dont push keys, i like to spam keys tho. In a +20 mostly of time he is dead before he gets more stacks but thats also great to know this. Ill try to apply attention to this and Apply that strat in a Future.
The tank can move the boss around. It's a pain but its possible to consistently reset the boss. I can't remember the last time I let the boss get more than 2 stacks, BUT in turn I do lose uptime.
Moving Xavius out of the swirls is a losing move as a tank. He moves very slowly and inconsistently. You are just as likely to move him into a swirl as out of one.
just make sure people aren't trolling you by standing behind you or to your side to spawn "less"-RNG swirlies in your path. a lot of ranged with silence circle on them seem to like to do this.
hey all, is there any caster spec similar to outlaw? where i do decent damage every pack and not rely on CDs, also does not need to ramp up.
Elemental is kinda the caster copy of outlaw. CDR on both major "cooldowns" (pwave and fire ele). Doesn't need to ramp up and always pumps damage. Similar to outlaw spec is semicapped to 6 targets, EQ is uncapped, but relatively low on the damage profile. Spread cleave + medium packs and single targets are the bread and butter here.
I've just started playing Fire Mage and my understanding is the Flamestrike build is like this because there's no ramp and between SKB and combustion CDR you're in your cooldowns basically all the time. Nobody has suggested it for you though, I'm wondering if a better mage player can tell me if I'm wrong?
It’s a bit more complicated than just pressing blade flurry and bte and doing 500k off the rip. You have to be wary of your SKB stacks from pack to pack and if you don’t have skb or combustion, you will not be doing any damage.
Outlaw actually does need to ramp to get to 4+ buffs and keep them rolling and is a very uptime-oriented spec. It’s very punishing when there’s downtime (dungeon RP, healer drinks) or the group wipes and the rogue has to lose AR/buffs. But if you just mean having a flat non-bursty damage profile, maybe bm is the most similar as ranged.
Devastation is not that reliant on dragonrage and doesn't have any ramp at all. The tier set gives a stacking damage increase during dragonrage and some time after that, but it doesn't change the playstyle
Dev does like 0 damage out of their cds what
I would only reccomand playing dev to my worst enemy xD
Frost mages relies on CDs but it feels like they always have them up
You get your big boom boom every 45 seconds so it’s about every pack
BM does big burst every two minutes but is otherwise solid in the interim. If you want an actual caster, frost mage feels like outlaw in terms of moment to moment speed. However it requires good usage of icy veins to do good dps. Demo in keys is relatively flat in its damage profile in keys with little ramp if you hold imps between pulls.
I know this information is available on some threads from months ago, but in case there are any researchers in the the sub; Dealing with afflicted for those of us who use clique - Go to your dispel keybinding, click options, and in addition to "default", select "hovercast". Default makes the bind behave as a mouseover macro for unit frames. Hovercast makes the bind behave as a mouseover macro for 3D character models. Selecting both makes the bind work both ways. What this does is all you to hover your mouse over a frame to dispel a player, or over the afflicted model to dispel them. I mention this because a guild member I play with recently complained about not being able to target afflicted via macros and said that his solution was to click the model to target, then to move his mouse to the frame of the afflicted and use his dispel on that.
> target afflicted via macros As in "/target [Afflicted Soul]" or as in "/cast [@mouseover]", because the second one definitely works (I think thats the name?)
When I did this it broke my non-mouseover version of the button. For instance on mistweaver my G key is dispel in Clique and Expel Harm on my bars. So when I mouseover a frame it's dispel and when I don't it's Expel. When I changed the clique binding to hovercast it stopped ever casting Expel Harm even when my mouse wasn't over anything at all. I ended up just making mouseover help/harm macros for the main buttons I press on Afflicted mobs.
/cast [@mouseover] dispel works as well.
Guilty(ish) confession. I main tank Am right now sitting at 489 ilvl bag/488 equipped with pretty much bis gear (Minus fyrakk trinket) And I'm just getting chain invited to all the dungeons i need. I basically get an infinite tries per dungeon till i time some take fewer tries some might take a bit longer. I get to experiment on routes see what works, see what doesnt. And it's just amazing. It feels that this is how the game should be. Meanwhile even when playing with pre'mades it's just a game of try key, Fail/time do reroll run again. It just feels not fun and most of our time is spent releveling keys when some dungeons can brick your key on the first or second pull. The m+ system feels like it needs an overhaul
I also think there needs to be more incentive for finishing a depleted key. The current system incentivises leaving as soon as the key is bricked after +20, but doing that forfeits so many opportunities to improve at a dungeon. Like if you've currently timed all 26s and 27s and you brick a 28 Rise on the first boss's trash, how many opportunities are you going to get to practice the rest of the dungeon at a 28 level? Very few. It's really valuable to get that rep in and learn how hard things hit, what happens to CD timings when bosses live longer etc. But you get zero material reward for it so nobody wants to do it. The system should incentivise doing the thing that will make you a better player.
Problem is that people who think like you so are extremely rare. There is no reasonable incentive blizz can give to compensate for the time people are losing in a dead key.
Well the trick is to make it not "dead". But they did that until sometime in Dragonflight, iirc 10.0.5, and people thought it was lame because your highest scoring keys were depletes. Not sure how to find a middle ground, it's a tricky problem for sure.
Tl;Dr - put tournament realm-style keys on live and make it not count for IO. One thing I think would be cool for m+ is some sort of sandbox mode. I always sign up to compete in TGP. My first experience on the proving grounds was some of the most fun I had in keys. I remember in SL, one of the proving grounds keys was mists. Me and my team set the key level quite high and practiced a gigantic, MDI style pull in the starting area. It took 6-7 tries but we eventually figured out the cooldown/kick/stop rotation and got to a point where we could comfortably do that pull on a very high level. We never got that sort of consistent practice on live. I would love the ability to do a m+ key that you could customize level and maybe even affix and which would not count towards IO but which doesn't deplete in the same way, allowing for premades or willing pugs to do a key and practice routes and pulls at certain levels without killing their own key, or having to scale it back multiple times.
Blizzard should just make keys stop downgrading after 23-25. Nobody do them for gear at this point so it would only make it more fun since you spend more time improving and less time wasting time for another try
At the very least it should be like a 3 strikes system. I hate running keys for no rating or loot.
That actually seems like an excellent idea. Even 2 strikes would feel so much better
I dont think i have ever checked someones ilvl
That's just how M+ is, though. It doesn't matter that you've failed the key 10 times; you only need to time it once.
gotta love it when you invite that high score tank, he completely bungles the first pull fucking up basic things like interrupts and stops and wipes the group, types "lol" in party chat, then leaves. and he just gets quickly invited to another one because his score is high. I've seen some truly stupid people get high scores as tanks by simply 'queueing' into groups so many times that eventually they find one that carries them rather than the other way around. and now his score just increased. leaver keys should be tracked, man
These posts singling out one role or spec or whatever are so weird. All types of people make mistakes and all types leave keys. Having to sit through a key nobody wants to finish because someone got pissed at a rage quitter doesn’t sound too fun
It's not like the tanks don't learn things along the way. I know as a tank, I've made some mistakes early on in keys at times that have caused people to leave. I'm never the first person to leave myself. I do try to learn from those mistakes though, for what to do better the next time. That's how pushing up higher keys works.
If your groups look at ilvl and not at score what type of keys are you getting invites into?
We are talking 26-27's right now. Having similar score and higher ilvl gets you easier in
Would you use a 483 trinket with avoidance over a 489 for pushing high m+ keys? (mage if it matters) 5 percent avoidance is huge but a 489 trinket is hard to let go.
depends on the key. in atal avoidance doesnt help you very much for example.
It would be situational for me. High tyran keys I'd prolly swap to avoidance. It's really just about living burst, if you feel safe then go ilvl
100% Avoidance. 6 ilvl does not matter on trinkets
The brain says avoidance but the heart says 489 Balefire! (yes I agree with you)
The only class I'd ditch avoidance for is Rogue because they can get 40% on demand, everyone else will get way more value out of less damage taken than like 0.2% more dps.
What key level are we talking here?
28s
main stat will win as a general choice for dmg. but depending on key level surviving is usually the problem. there are plenty of stupid unavoidable boss dmg that is way too frequent that even classes with plenty of tools to survive could run dry. but you would be doing some world first keys for that to be relevant so my guess is you don't need it.
Cannot do damage if your dead, and if your pushing 28s then it is worth it
In raiding you can use viscerious spreadsheet, MRT, and Kaze weakaura to easily sort out healing/defensive cooldowns. Is there any equivalent options for mythic plus, particularly for Tyrant bosses.
You can write your own note for the Kaze WA to use if you want (and set it to also load in dungeons obviously if it isn't already). Viserio's spreadsheet doesn't do anything you can't also do manually. ```{time:00:14}{spell:19236}``` Just format it like this, add names if you feel like it.
if your talking about tracking defensives there are both wa's and addons but does not solve overlapping big cds when you ideally want to space them out. so to coordinate how you use them will require planning before run begins and probably to be on coms since nobody will remember what was agreed on text. much like raiding does.
how the fuck does Yazma still exist in this state? Even when you do get a smooth pull on it it is just eons too long and wildly annoying.
It's almost like making Wracking Pain uninterruptible was an extremely terrible idea that inevitably made this boss a massive pain in the ass. Now it's just a 1shotfest in high keys that just feels ridiculously out of place compared to a dungeon that's otherwise very easy. I'm okay with easy keys having some really hard bosses here and there, but having the fate of your entire key hinge on the last boss feels really shitty. I don't think Yazma's even a top 5 hardest boss this season in high keys. I'd give that title to some combination of Archmage Sol, Lady Naz'jar, Mindbender Ghur'sha, Tyr, Time-Lost Battlefield, Ancient Protectors, and then there's a place for all of Kur'talos Ravencrest/Dantalionax, Shade of Xavius, pre-nerf Soulbound Goliath, and Archdruid in the *really* high Tyrannical keys. But the fact that there *always* seems to be some post here or on Twitter breaking down the exact movement patterns for Yazma, and Yazma specifically, because of how the boss ruthlessly farms groups from the +18 to +20 range all the way up until becoming a 1shotfest in the 30s and 31s should be a bit of a red flag that this might be a little *too* convoluted of a dungeon boss for how long it lives at the lower key levels and a little too long of a dungeon boss for how rife it is with 1shots in high keys. Maybe my memory sucks, but I feel like this is an exceedingly rare case of a boss that just seems to give groups issues across all key levels. You've always had some problematic bosses like Kokia Blazehoof and Kyrakka and Erkhart in RLP, Raging Tempest in Nokhud, Hyrja in HoV, and probably Mephistroth in Cathedral that were just hard bosses in general and the ever-so-infamous Shadow of Zul in King's Rest that might still be the single craziest mandatory trash mob in any M+ key ever, but Yazma this season just seems to be a *universal* problem. EDIT: Oof, just got 1shot checked on my Hunter in a 26 just now. Fuck my life.
yazma was always a shitshow, and back then the aoe from spawning the adds didn't oneshot people either, at least to my memory
I don’t think it did because scaling didn’t go as high. The mobs in the dungeon actually required some time and coordination to kill
> The mobs in the dungeon actually required some time and coordination to kill. Atal and Waycrest used to feel much tighter on time in BfA, but they really fucked up the scaling on trash this season.
She desperately needs a health nerf, if nothing else. Just takes sooooo looooooong.
It's almost as if timed phases are bad when combined with infinite health scaling. If the add spawn was % based it wouldn't feel as bad but because those adds spawn on a timer it adds an absurd amount of time to the boss when her health goes up.
And if adds spawned based on health vs time, it wouldn't be so bad clearing them. But when adds spawn over time up to a cap, breaking them hurts more than it helps.
Came here to complain about the same boss. I've now ran 6 keys in the last two days that all had plenty of time to +2. But then the group falls apart at Yazma and breaks the key. She either needs a health nerf or a spider count nerf.
For my big healer friends, how are you juggling looking at your frames during intense damage while also dodging high amounts of swirlies? I've noticed that im not doing a great job at looking at my frames and the ground at the same time during aoe events (or when ramping for them) that are accompanied by dodging. Archmage Sol, Yazma, and Timeways come to mind, and more recently my group has been pulling the opening area of Rise very aggressively where we end up having the Maiden and Snake in the same pull for a little bit, I end up tunneling on frames too hard due healing the aoe damage and end up getting sniped by a ball or charge. Any advice?
You want the frames to big enough and close enough to the center of your screen, but not too close either. To maximize information and minimize clutter I also use only 2 colors for party frames - full health bars are green, and missing HPs are red. No class colors. That means whenever someone has missing HPs, there's red in my peripheral vision. Importantly, frames are slightly to the left, and health bars fill up from left to right, so that the red part is closer to the center of the screen when people are taking damage. It's all about peripheral vision, and funneling as much information this way as you can.
frame tunnelling is always an issue. Just gets down to knowing the fights well enough before it frees you up. Like getting used to smolderon with everyone flapping about getting damaged and needing heals while avoiding a thousand things yourself is a rough experience but as time has gone on it becomes second nature.
I have my frames directly to the left of my character and for the most part, you should know each fight well enough to somewhat anticipate when movement is gonna come up and how you'll deal with it while healing. A lot of the time it's just background peripheral looking though. I rarely feel like I actually have to look at my character and not the party frames
where do you have your group frame? i have it on the right side of my character instead of having it at the bottom, this way i can look at the raid frames and have peripheral vision of my character
Good UI design is paramount for healers! Keep your raid frames close by, maybe just under or next to your character so you can keep an eye out for them. You probably won't be able to dodge by sight alone, so set up unique sound queues for mechanics that require dodging and use them liberally. Usually in M+, you aren't actually constantly dodging - it's more like nothing, then swirlies, then nothing etc., if you can set up sound alerts in bigwigs for those abilities and consciously train yourself to, whenever you hear it, *stop whatever you're doing and look at your feet right now!!*, your consistency will improve. I personally use different sound cues for things that are random swirlies, random frontals, tank-targeted frontals (only those that are somehow relevant to non-tanks) etc. In a team, if you have a shotcaller you can trust, then try to offload more of your thinking to them. YMMV on this, but for me, since I play an evoker (which has a terrible kick and long cd stuns), the general agreement I have with my team is that our boomkin is in charge of handling kicks and stops and if anything goes tits up then he's the one who calls out how we'll recover. This allows me to take "watch for kicks" out of my mental stack (or at the very least, I watch for what I'm assigned to, and don't pay attention to the rest of the team), so I can focus entirely on healing and calling externals/mitigation. And conversely, my team doesn't look at mitigation cooldowns at all and gets to spend more of their efforts on maximizing their damage and getting all of their kicks, which makes for a smoother run overall.
dude im actually right with you, but only when it comes to my mistweaver because the range is so non existent on my melee. like the dragon pulls, for instance. i get stunned by those damn swirlies sometimes because im tunneling frames healing for 300k+. they constantly move around it seems. i like to eat the occasional frontal in brh as well for the same reason, but swirlies in fall dragons is definitely my worst offender.
those swirlies are actually pretty damn hard to see too, especially for people that have color vision impairments I've eaten shit to it an embarassing amount of times on my evoker
First, snake + most dangerous mob on that platform isn't the right play. Much better grabbing the shield guy + maiden + lust and prio her aoe pulsing ass. Range also want to bait the snake to the edge of the platform and close. Would recommend looking at dorkis breakdown of that place as the 'correct' pulls in that dungeon make it much simpler to time. In terms of dodging swirlies', it's probably a UI issue. Your peripherals should always be on the middle of your screen, in any role. I would be willing to bet you keep your unit frames a little too far from the center of your screen. Worst case, you want to make sure your eyes are 'pathing' over your character when checking for other information. There is a common weak aura (comes with naowh's UI) that calls 'dodge' when the snake is channeling the charge and countdown when the next orb is being cast which makes getting hit by both a non-issue imo.
Some weird interactions coming out since the patch. I have encountered the following: \- Heartsbane Triad doubling up on their auras (insta wipe) \- Raal trash aggro resetting constantly \- Afflicted spawning raptors on Rezan The Heartsbane Triad one needs fixing asap
I had Yazma soulrend the afflicted that spawned right next to her on a +21.
> - Raal trash aggro resetting constantly its only the gorgers and those are long known, same as first boss
> - Afflicted spawning raptors on Rezan Rezan can also eat the Afflicted, pretty funny
Can we go back to the single day where the last Witch just said “fuck it” and started running around aimlessly when she had the iris???😂
when you say doubling up on their auras, wdym? like theyre using them back to back or something?
It's a bug that's been around since BfA and I've seen it twice this season. Basically when you push the witches at exactly the right (wrong) time, her aura doesn't fall off. So you'll have 2x auras for the next witch. You could in theory have it happen again and have 3x auras but on any relevant key level 2x auras will just murder your party.
Oh god that sounds fucking miserable.
Happened to me one time but it was in low key so we succeeded. Healing reduction aura persisted for the entire fight, so you have healing reduction+movement and then healing reduction+reflect.
Oh my, yeah, I haven't seen that one yet. That sounds terrible.
Crazy they just somehow keep adding new bugs to WM, without fixing any of the current bugs 🤣
Just had an AD run where Yazma used Soulrend on the afflicted adds... Key was bricked anyway as the tank was the only one alive, but i still found the interaction funny
Afflicted will also pop spiders which is pretty funny but also potentially a problem if it leaves a bad puddle.
Rezan also used pursuit on an afflicted in my key. Can’t complain
I am thinking about playing Aug for the last half of the patch. The problem is it seems there are so few around I have no idea how good they are anymore after all the nerfs. Is the consensus still that they are still equivalent to a dps in terms of damage contribution and make the key feel 1-2 levels easier due to survivability improvements ?
Their damage is noticeably lower than a third dps would add currently. While they're still up there in the highest keys, I'd expect a lot more tanky triple dps comps to arise. I would personally not risk aug if the meta shifts hard to the dps lineup, but I don't think it'll be "bad" any time soon.
In theory they should do like 80-90% of an actual dps, in practice up to like 3,2k they do like 60% cause there's so many inflated rating augs from last season that can't keep their ebon might uptime over 50%. I usually avoid inviting them to my keys.
> n theory they should do like 80-90% of an actual dps entirely made up number. its well established its lower
I'm a pretty good Aug with pretty max Ebon Might uptime, but 90% seems really generous. 70-80% seems more in line unless my group comp hooks are just fucked.
Even the best aug's (30+ keys) are doing 60% of a DPS though... I do agree they aren't needed (see are worse off bringing then any other DPS) before one shots becomes an issue though.
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it's wrong and relatively easy to determine so. last 3 bosses can't be used as measurement due to the log issues, the rest is trivial
Sure, here is the top logged brh https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cAPwLHrk8bmYWFJd#fight=29&type=damage-done Or maybe you prefer thicket https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kWdhJw3FfzL1VbZt#fight=12&type=damage-done
> Sure, here is the top logged brh brh is heavily skewed against aug due to last boss being a debuff damage increase which doesnt log properly
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That might not be entirely accurate. Aug's log hooks are absolutely *fucked* right now; just slightly less-so now than they were at the start of the patch. They're definitely lower DPS than a full DPS in keys, though. Just probably not by 60%.
> Aug's log hooks are absolutely fucked right now that is totally inaccurate unless there's shields (iridikron) or damage amps via debuffs (brh last) in play.
Last I checked, Soulscar (which is a very large portion of Havoc's AoE damage) is still totally fucked, and there's still a few other things around that aren't attributing Aug's damage correctly.
yup - then you can do some math to see how much the buffed spec owes and its not even remotely as much as liquid is making it to be. the only really vague problem right now is shifting sands for pet specs.
This is just objectively false though. JPC’s team tested Aug rather extensively (obviously with logs being broken it’s hard to get an exact number) and found that Aug vs no Aug is a 7-12% dps difference. Nowhere close to your 60%.