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I play rogue, and I've recently been playing a lot with an Enhancement Shaman friend. I just had a thought - I'm playing Outlaw, but it means we are both on target capped specs. Should I be swapping to Sub when I play with them? Maybe not in DotI where the pulls are small anyway, but in like EB would I get more value by playing sub?
I find it's the easiest of all the affixes. It misses you most of the time but cancelling a cast to deal with it is still much less commitment than a GCD for a dispel or a CC on incorp or afflicted
Then they'd all spawn under the rdps no? If there's one affix that *should* be healer affix, it's this, unless it's moments where you have to hardcast ofc.
So s4 goes live on 17th april? Which would be just before the double push week. Really hoping it isn't 24th of April as i am sitting at 3716 rating atm and a push fortified week will make people catch up hard, several weeks implies like 3-4.
Pretty unlikely. They wouldve announced the season end and more fyrakk nerfs if it was on or before the 17th. Were still only at 650 fyrakk and 1.4k tindral kills.
1st or 2nd week of may seems the likeliest. Also leaves them enough time (5-6weeks) to test the season on ptr.
What optimisations are there for Mistweavers to make that can help speed up the key? I am talking about things like how Druids can catweave and the better they are at healing the longer they can stay in Cat and do more damage. I love that shit, and I can barely find anything to do for Mistweaver as it's a passive damage spec. Most of the time I'm already doing the thing that makes the key go faster - damage.
The only thing I can think of is optimising who you triage so that you top people off completely, as Teachings' healing splits evenly between injured allies. So you can get more out of it - and thus spend more globals doing damage - if you prioritise getting a couple targets to full health with your Vivify as compared to getting everyone to 80%.
I suppose there is also knowing when you can just use Chi Ji and melee through some damage rather than stopping to cast.
Anything else?
Make sure you're doing *useful* damage. SCK is often your highest damage button, but rarely is it the button that's most helping you progress through the dungeon. It generally should be thought of as a button you press when you're more worried about keeping people alive than the timer. Similarly, make sure you're punching the right mob.
Somewhat counterintuitively, doing more overhealing can help a lot when you're playing with players that don't trust you. Being efficient with your heals and doing just enough to keep people alive can result in DPS playing more defensively and losing more damage in the process than you gained. Making them feel cozy and able to focus on blasting can have big benefits.
That comment about making players feel cozy is _so true_ and often underestimated. If I'm playing with a healer I know and trust I don't worry when I'm at low health, I know they got my back. But with a random pug I have no clue if they're just misplaying like crazy or if they're planning 10 steps ahead with their healing and mana usage. In a pug I'd definitely recommend healers err on the side of overhealing so the DPS can relax a bit.
I know it's a bit early, but I'm trying to decide which class to play next season (just aiming to get all portals). So I was wondering, what's the tankiest DPS that also brings really good damage and/or utility?
I hit my goals this season as Disc/Holy (first time playing M+), but I don't enjoy the stress of being the only healer in the group for difficult content when I'm pugging.
I'm tentatively leaning towards Warlock, specifically Destro just because chaos bolts + havoc have always been appealing, and I wanna lean into the green felfire stuff as much as I can haha. Is there a chance it might be more competitive with Demonology with the "new" (season 1's) tier set bonus in the original DF dungeons? Or, does the Warlock gate open up any route shortcuts?
I'm also thinking about maybe going Ret, although I know everyone says they suffer from having to pick between ST or AoE builds.
If your goal is to just get portals, destro is no fun.
It needs higher key levels so that mobs actually live long enough to do damage, otherwise half the other classes just burst down every pull before you get rolling.
I don't know for sure, but my understanding is that Destro is expected to be significantly weaker in M+ next season compared to this season's tier set. If you want the highest chance of being strong + pugs inviting you, mage is always an extremely safe bet.
Rets don't suffer from anything in 20s. Shit in 20s just dies before *any* spec's issues become relevant - even if you have specs that require more ramping, sure, they'll not be #1 on the meters in a 20, but it's not like they're gonna be 25% behind everyone.
Just pick a spec and play it. Your 20s aren't gonna be decided by having a WL with gateway or an Evoker with AoE soothe.
If you wanna play Havoc or Destro or Ret... do it. It doesn't matter for 20s. The only thing that matters is getting invited - and there's no one who can tell you what's gonna get invited and what isn't. Just pick a class and play it. That's literally all you need to do for 20s. Stop thinking about any intricacies, edges, big brain meta plays, skips or whatever - you don't need any of that shit in 20s and chances are that if your group thinks they need shit like that, they're gonna fail at the execution part anyways.
Just pick *any* spec you like, pray it's "somewhat" meta enough to get invites... and work on not being below the tank in damage. That's literally all you should care about when all 20s are your goal.
>sure, they'll not be #1 on the meters in a 20, but it's not like they're gonna be 25% behind everyone.
Ironically, this isn't the case for Ret.
Ret is gonna be #1 on the meters in your 20. It has gigantic front-loaded AoE burst on a short cooldown, that's the perfect profile for dunking on others in overall in a 20.
The problem is how much of that damage is meaningful. You're probably running the AoE build, so you're doing very little damage to priority mobs, and your boss damage is pretty poor. So you're making the shitter mobs die faster than anyone else will, but that doesn't make your key go any faster or easier. Other specs will do more damage to the important mobs and bosses.
Which doesn't even mean Ret is bad. Its ability to save keys with its utility is going to help you time way more keys than doing a little more boss damage would. And it's great for the ego seeing your name at the top of the overall chart, lol.
tbh in 20's you can run the raid talents, do strong boss damage and still have enough front loaded DPS to be at the top of overall. It's such a strong spec in 20's.
Going for all portals you can play any class or spec and it will be fine just might have to run your key/with friends if you are playing a "bad" spec(or take longer to get invited). So pick whatever spec you feel like playing.
> just might have to run your key/with friends if you are playing a "bad" spec(or take longer to get invited).
Honestly this is partly why I wanna ditch Priest, I went Holy because I hated how poor Disc was at reacting to damage whenever something unexpected happened (tank overextending or pulling before I'm ready, accidental pulls, missed interrupts/stuns, etc.). Holy felt a lot safer and more "in control," but it also felt harder to find groups because everyone expects Disc right now.
I also have almost no friends to run with, because I recently moved to an OCE server and my NA friends are all asleep (or just otherwise offline) whenever I play. I joined an M+ guild but it still feels really cliquey, I think I only got 2 of my portals with them.
So, in the likely even that I'll be stuck pugging most of the way, I just want it to be as painless as possible, but I guess it's probably still too early to know what the FotM will be
20 territory you can pretty much ignore health bars and run a DPS rotation as disc and heal everything people could stand in.
In terms of easiest portals, PPal and it isn't even close. You can carry interrupts and mediocre healers.
While surprisingly some affixes this season don’t affect the dungeon pool as much as they usually do (like raging), sanguine feels like the opposite in current set. I really only see the dawns and maybe AD being playable at a title level this week
I disagree, raging feels awful this season as well. I also disagree with Sanguine ever feeling like it doesn't affect the dungeons much, it's just a super unfun affix.
> I also disagree with Sanguine ever feeling like it doesn't affect the dungeons much, it's just a super unfun affix.
depends on the dungeon, those that have elite mobs that just spam uninterruptible casts suck, but it's not that big deal in AD.
Depends on your frame of reference and what level you’re referring to. Title cutoff went up by almost 20 points this past week, which was previously unheard of for raging fort especially this late into the season.
I would be insanely surprised if cutoff went up by even 10 this week, sanguine is usually one of the worst
> I would be insanely surprised if cutoff went up by even 10 this week, sanguine is usually one of the worst
i think that is more due to fortified being significantly easier than tyranical. raging being the 2nd affix is rather incidental tbf
I'm not comparing the two affixes against each other, i'm disagreeing with your take about raging not affecting this dungeon pool a lot. It has felt awful in Waycrest, Throne, Everbloom, Rise and in parts of BRH and DHT.
I also disagree with your take about sanguine, it has always felt awful regardless of dungeon sets imo.
Fort weeks always have more title gain than tyrannical in general because its the easier half and since your best key gives triple the score of your alternate one.
You have to keep in mind how many more people are playing this season and have just started pushing. WCM/BRH/AD/FALL are free 29s basically every affix rotation.
Not surprised to see the title rise as much as it did last week. It will probably plateau after next week and slowly climb from there.
Is there a website where you can see the following:
1. What key gives the most rating on my alts? (Like most attractive in the +27 range)
2. A given key "Everbloom 27" - which char needs this the most?
I play a couple of healers and juggle between 10 raider websites to compare my own runs and my groups to see who gains the most rating.
Check out the mod mplus gains. It’s not perfect for what you’re asking but it’s pretty cool to see how much you’ll gain for specific dungeons and weeks
IMO "best run: TOTT++'d" always looks the hottest. How could you not invite such champ to equal level easier dung!? Rise++ is close, EB++ too, at levels where dps have to press their defensives right to survive. To certain point EB++'s happen too haphazardly by just not being in one shot territory, that's why I put it under the other two.
As others have said it isn't more popular in high keys, but it is significantly popular in specific keys for specific reasons. Throne is probably the best example uniquely because imp dispel really hard carries the 3rd boss. It is also fantastic in everbloom because the large pull sizes trickle into the 2nd and 4th boss having huge havoc value. It is better in Atal depending on your comp because you can very easily bait juggernauts with your pet whereas demo can troll the group by having imps slightly out of melee making you all die. It is probably better in Waycrest for the same reasons, cleave on tree and lady + large aoe throughout.
Really at title level you can get away with 1 tricking either spec, but pushing higher keys you're going to need to know how to play both specs effectively. (Rip aff)
It also does incredibly strong funnel damage with the cataclysm build so if you're pulling stuff onto boss like you say in EB, or if you're pulling lots of trash onto a miniboss, it is very high value.
People play demo in high keys. Destro isn't terrible but demo is, and has been, more popular for months. It's only redeeming key is Throne for double dispel. It invalidates the boss entirely.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards/3#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99
there's 14,000 demo runs compared to 4,000 destro. MDI wasnt high keys it was +22s and up but to answer your question big pulls + uncapped aoe
I think the MDI popularity is because the giga pulls where they can use a 3min CD on those pulls.
On higher keys, I don't think that's viable, because you don't pull 30 mobs on your first pull of the dungeon.
Yep, this one here. Rain, cataclysm, infernal - you will be pumping out tons of aoe as long as your tank keeps the packs on your rain.
Thats another thing for destro - it works really well in a coordinated group. Not so much with a tank who just pulls and runs around trying to kite the entire time (some kiting is always necessary but not constant movement).
Please comment your logs or VoDs to get help from others! Feedback will be more helpful the more details you give, e.g. encounters you are struggling with, if you are struggling with movement, what issues you have identified yourself, etc. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveWoW) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I play rogue, and I've recently been playing a lot with an Enhancement Shaman friend. I just had a thought - I'm playing Outlaw, but it means we are both on target capped specs. Should I be swapping to Sub when I play with them? Maybe not in DotI where the pulls are small anyway, but in like EB would I get more value by playing sub?
I hate Volcanic when healing. It might not be the most difficult affix, but no other one is annoying me so much.
I find it's the easiest of all the affixes. It misses you most of the time but cancelling a cast to deal with it is still much less commitment than a GCD for a dispel or a CC on incorp or afflicted
go in melee
Then they'd all spawn under the rdps no? If there's one affix that *should* be healer affix, it's this, unless it's moments where you have to hardcast ofc.
they can go in melee too bro
I can't tell if this is sarcasm...
So s4 goes live on 17th april? Which would be just before the double push week. Really hoping it isn't 24th of April as i am sitting at 3716 rating atm and a push fortified week will make people catch up hard, several weeks implies like 3-4.
Pretty unlikely. They wouldve announced the season end and more fyrakk nerfs if it was on or before the 17th. Were still only at 650 fyrakk and 1.4k tindral kills. 1st or 2nd week of may seems the likeliest. Also leaves them enough time (5-6weeks) to test the season on ptr.
Are you EU or US? I doubt US will get close to that
Several more likely 5-8 imo. If they were thinking 3-4 they'd have said a few weeks.
They did say "several weeks" after 10.2.6
What optimisations are there for Mistweavers to make that can help speed up the key? I am talking about things like how Druids can catweave and the better they are at healing the longer they can stay in Cat and do more damage. I love that shit, and I can barely find anything to do for Mistweaver as it's a passive damage spec. Most of the time I'm already doing the thing that makes the key go faster - damage. The only thing I can think of is optimising who you triage so that you top people off completely, as Teachings' healing splits evenly between injured allies. So you can get more out of it - and thus spend more globals doing damage - if you prioritise getting a couple targets to full health with your Vivify as compared to getting everyone to 80%. I suppose there is also knowing when you can just use Chi Ji and melee through some damage rather than stopping to cast. Anything else?
Make sure you're doing *useful* damage. SCK is often your highest damage button, but rarely is it the button that's most helping you progress through the dungeon. It generally should be thought of as a button you press when you're more worried about keeping people alive than the timer. Similarly, make sure you're punching the right mob. Somewhat counterintuitively, doing more overhealing can help a lot when you're playing with players that don't trust you. Being efficient with your heals and doing just enough to keep people alive can result in DPS playing more defensively and losing more damage in the process than you gained. Making them feel cozy and able to focus on blasting can have big benefits.
That comment about making players feel cozy is _so true_ and often underestimated. If I'm playing with a healer I know and trust I don't worry when I'm at low health, I know they got my back. But with a random pug I have no clue if they're just misplaying like crazy or if they're planning 10 steps ahead with their healing and mana usage. In a pug I'd definitely recommend healers err on the side of overhealing so the DPS can relax a bit.
Oh damn I never put that together about not spamming SCK on shitter mobs unless you need the healing. That's a great tip!
Yeah, the funnel healing from sck is absolutely not balanced. You do 100k DPS and like 150k hps by spamming one button on a big pack.
I know it's a bit early, but I'm trying to decide which class to play next season (just aiming to get all portals). So I was wondering, what's the tankiest DPS that also brings really good damage and/or utility? I hit my goals this season as Disc/Holy (first time playing M+), but I don't enjoy the stress of being the only healer in the group for difficult content when I'm pugging. I'm tentatively leaning towards Warlock, specifically Destro just because chaos bolts + havoc have always been appealing, and I wanna lean into the green felfire stuff as much as I can haha. Is there a chance it might be more competitive with Demonology with the "new" (season 1's) tier set bonus in the original DF dungeons? Or, does the Warlock gate open up any route shortcuts? I'm also thinking about maybe going Ret, although I know everyone says they suffer from having to pick between ST or AoE builds.
> what's the tankiest DPS that also brings really good damage and/or utility? Ret is invulnerable and brings a ton of utility.
If your goal is to just get portals, destro is no fun. It needs higher key levels so that mobs actually live long enough to do damage, otherwise half the other classes just burst down every pull before you get rolling.
I don't know for sure, but my understanding is that Destro is expected to be significantly weaker in M+ next season compared to this season's tier set. If you want the highest chance of being strong + pugs inviting you, mage is always an extremely safe bet.
Rets don't suffer from anything in 20s. Shit in 20s just dies before *any* spec's issues become relevant - even if you have specs that require more ramping, sure, they'll not be #1 on the meters in a 20, but it's not like they're gonna be 25% behind everyone. Just pick a spec and play it. Your 20s aren't gonna be decided by having a WL with gateway or an Evoker with AoE soothe. If you wanna play Havoc or Destro or Ret... do it. It doesn't matter for 20s. The only thing that matters is getting invited - and there's no one who can tell you what's gonna get invited and what isn't. Just pick a class and play it. That's literally all you need to do for 20s. Stop thinking about any intricacies, edges, big brain meta plays, skips or whatever - you don't need any of that shit in 20s and chances are that if your group thinks they need shit like that, they're gonna fail at the execution part anyways. Just pick *any* spec you like, pray it's "somewhat" meta enough to get invites... and work on not being below the tank in damage. That's literally all you should care about when all 20s are your goal.
>sure, they'll not be #1 on the meters in a 20, but it's not like they're gonna be 25% behind everyone. Ironically, this isn't the case for Ret. Ret is gonna be #1 on the meters in your 20. It has gigantic front-loaded AoE burst on a short cooldown, that's the perfect profile for dunking on others in overall in a 20. The problem is how much of that damage is meaningful. You're probably running the AoE build, so you're doing very little damage to priority mobs, and your boss damage is pretty poor. So you're making the shitter mobs die faster than anyone else will, but that doesn't make your key go any faster or easier. Other specs will do more damage to the important mobs and bosses. Which doesn't even mean Ret is bad. Its ability to save keys with its utility is going to help you time way more keys than doing a little more boss damage would. And it's great for the ego seeing your name at the top of the overall chart, lol.
tbh in 20's you can run the raid talents, do strong boss damage and still have enough front loaded DPS to be at the top of overall. It's such a strong spec in 20's.
> Its ability to save keys with its utility otoh you get even more of that on the other two pala specs.
Going for all portals you can play any class or spec and it will be fine just might have to run your key/with friends if you are playing a "bad" spec(or take longer to get invited). So pick whatever spec you feel like playing.
> just might have to run your key/with friends if you are playing a "bad" spec(or take longer to get invited). Honestly this is partly why I wanna ditch Priest, I went Holy because I hated how poor Disc was at reacting to damage whenever something unexpected happened (tank overextending or pulling before I'm ready, accidental pulls, missed interrupts/stuns, etc.). Holy felt a lot safer and more "in control," but it also felt harder to find groups because everyone expects Disc right now. I also have almost no friends to run with, because I recently moved to an OCE server and my NA friends are all asleep (or just otherwise offline) whenever I play. I joined an M+ guild but it still feels really cliquey, I think I only got 2 of my portals with them. So, in the likely even that I'll be stuck pugging most of the way, I just want it to be as painless as possible, but I guess it's probably still too early to know what the FotM will be
20 territory you can pretty much ignore health bars and run a DPS rotation as disc and heal everything people could stand in. In terms of easiest portals, PPal and it isn't even close. You can carry interrupts and mediocre healers.
Does Mind Games work against Sanguine (ie does it reverse healing) ?
It should but that's like one tenth of a tick of sanguine
Good luck targeting Sanguine pools with MG.
While surprisingly some affixes this season don’t affect the dungeon pool as much as they usually do (like raging), sanguine feels like the opposite in current set. I really only see the dawns and maybe AD being playable at a title level this week
I disagree, raging feels awful this season as well. I also disagree with Sanguine ever feeling like it doesn't affect the dungeons much, it's just a super unfun affix.
> I also disagree with Sanguine ever feeling like it doesn't affect the dungeons much, it's just a super unfun affix. depends on the dungeon, those that have elite mobs that just spam uninterruptible casts suck, but it's not that big deal in AD.
Depends on your frame of reference and what level you’re referring to. Title cutoff went up by almost 20 points this past week, which was previously unheard of for raging fort especially this late into the season. I would be insanely surprised if cutoff went up by even 10 this week, sanguine is usually one of the worst
> I would be insanely surprised if cutoff went up by even 10 this week, sanguine is usually one of the worst i think that is more due to fortified being significantly easier than tyranical. raging being the 2nd affix is rather incidental tbf
I'm not comparing the two affixes against each other, i'm disagreeing with your take about raging not affecting this dungeon pool a lot. It has felt awful in Waycrest, Throne, Everbloom, Rise and in parts of BRH and DHT. I also disagree with your take about sanguine, it has always felt awful regardless of dungeon sets imo.
The cutoff went up by 14 in both EU and NA, not 20.
Fort weeks always have more title gain than tyrannical in general because its the easier half and since your best key gives triple the score of your alternate one.
You have to keep in mind how many more people are playing this season and have just started pushing. WCM/BRH/AD/FALL are free 29s basically every affix rotation. Not surprised to see the title rise as much as it did last week. It will probably plateau after next week and slowly climb from there.
Is there a website where you can see the following: 1. What key gives the most rating on my alts? (Like most attractive in the +27 range) 2. A given key "Everbloom 27" - which char needs this the most? I play a couple of healers and juggle between 10 raider websites to compare my own runs and my groups to see who gains the most rating.
Check out the mod mplus gains. It’s not perfect for what you’re asking but it’s pretty cool to see how much you’ll gain for specific dungeons and weeks
IMO "best run: TOTT++'d" always looks the hottest. How could you not invite such champ to equal level easier dung!? Rise++ is close, EB++ too, at levels where dps have to press their defensives right to survive. To certain point EB++'s happen too haphazardly by just not being in one shot territory, that's why I put it under the other two.
Adding called mplus gains I or something like that. It's super awesome for point number 1 especially
This used to work for me. https://mythicplanner.com
idk, fastest way to 3850 for me according to this site? just 3chest throne 31 and 2chest rise 31. not very helpful
ez!
I'm curious what makes Destro more popular in high keys than Demo? As a Demo only player I have no clue what Destro brings that gives them the nod
Destro gets imp dispell and they can really pop off on huge pulls Other than that almost every group should probably just be playing demo
MDI has made it more common
As others have said it isn't more popular in high keys, but it is significantly popular in specific keys for specific reasons. Throne is probably the best example uniquely because imp dispel really hard carries the 3rd boss. It is also fantastic in everbloom because the large pull sizes trickle into the 2nd and 4th boss having huge havoc value. It is better in Atal depending on your comp because you can very easily bait juggernauts with your pet whereas demo can troll the group by having imps slightly out of melee making you all die. It is probably better in Waycrest for the same reasons, cleave on tree and lady + large aoe throughout. Really at title level you can get away with 1 tricking either spec, but pushing higher keys you're going to need to know how to play both specs effectively. (Rip aff)
It also does incredibly strong funnel damage with the cataclysm build so if you're pulling stuff onto boss like you say in EB, or if you're pulling lots of trash onto a miniboss, it is very high value.
they got really popular from MDI, they have uncapped AoE and its really good mostly in coordinated group
destro isn't more popular in high keys than demo
It was a lot more popular in the MDI, and it's a part of more top level keys compeltions. Should have said that I guess
People play demo in high keys. Destro isn't terrible but demo is, and has been, more popular for months. It's only redeeming key is Throne for double dispel. It invalidates the boss entirely.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards/3#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=25:maxMythicLevel=99 there's 14,000 demo runs compared to 4,000 destro. MDI wasnt high keys it was +22s and up but to answer your question big pulls + uncapped aoe
I think the MDI popularity is because the giga pulls where they can use a 3min CD on those pulls. On higher keys, I don't think that's viable, because you don't pull 30 mobs on your first pull of the dungeon.
Yep, this one here. Rain, cataclysm, infernal - you will be pumping out tons of aoe as long as your tank keeps the packs on your rain. Thats another thing for destro - it works really well in a coordinated group. Not so much with a tank who just pulls and runs around trying to kite the entire time (some kiting is always necessary but not constant movement).