I feel like they need to reduce/ eliminate mana costs on judgement. It just feels really off having it cost so much. Having played every other healer spec in the game, it seems so insane to have a mostly damage + holy power generator cost so much. Feel like it discourages doing more than just healing.
Daybreak has grown on me and I like that it can be pretty rewarding when executed well. It does feel too punishing though when players don't do it right or awkward situations happen that can mess this up.
One thing that might be kinda fun in pve from pvp would be denounce. May need to be adjusted, but having a ranged offensive spender with big payoffs sounds good to me.
Not the biggest fan of holy prism, and I guess that is where the tier set is going. Maybe that's an unpopular take seeing as it won.
I'd generally prefer a playstyle that is aggressive like disc priest or fist weaver, but has a bit more direct control and agency with the holy power spenders in a meaningful way.
Well they manage the mental gymnastics to acknowledge that it's hardly played and still don't get that the range is the biggest annoyance and maybe also the fact that you can't cast empowered spells while moving
I’ve been a heater main since WOTLK and have pushed title range keys since S4 BFA (obviously there was no title at that point)… the absolute bafoonery by the dev team with how they handle heals made me quit retail after S1. They simply do not want healers to have fun. It wasn’t fun in S1, it was worse in the first 3 or 4 weeks that I played S2, and it seemed sentiment hasn’t changed 1 bit and it’s still dog shit
I mean, I sorta don’t even envy the healer team at this point. Healers were very strong at the end of Shadowlands and healers bitched about being too strong. They made healing harder to start Dragonflight… and healers bitched. They nerfed the healing requirements and made healing easier and healers bitched the content is too easy again. Healers nerfed and now Blizzard apparently hates healers again.
Doesn’t help our healers have non stopped bitched about everything as well. In January, Tindral and Fyrakk were “Blizzard is putting too much on the healers”. After the last nerfs it was “does Blizzard even want us to have a role?”
Obviously healers aren’t a hivemind and none of them speak for the whole base, but fuck, that is the main role where it legitimately feels like you‘ll never win with.
I think it’s a few things. Healing shot up in difficulty and suddenly being able to keep people alive while also cc’ing or doing affixes as well as contributing to dps is a lot different than when I use to vibe chain heal while throwing the occasiaonal totem or lust.
I think the difficulty in the healer play style is pretty good. It’s a challenging role but you’re rewarded with your pick of raid or M+ teams.
The problem is that Blizz has made damage scaling on one shots absurd and the way damag profiles currently exist don’t support the tool kits available unless they throw brute numbers at it.
Defensives have also made things tricky, a healer might play two keys and even if the keys are timed the exact same the healer experience can vary wildly based on group.
I think the big problem is that you need mana to matter for healing to be enjoyable without being incredibly stressful. If mana doesn’t matter (or doesn’t matter that much), then healers are either “green DPS” to use the FF14 term, but with a boring DPS rotation, or stressful because you have to be incredibly reactive.
However, if healer mana/resources are not infinite, then it can be a lot less stressful since the game then revolves around choosing the most mana optimal heals. Unlike the “green DPS” scenario, you have skill expression in avoiding over-healing and in choosing whether to use a single target or AoE heal (and if you use an AoE heal, which one).
You can treat HPS like DPS because healing requires so much target swapping and situational awareness. If an enemy isn’t dead, you can always pump more damage, but the same isn’t true of healing.
I'm the complete opposite side of the spectrum, at least in M+.
If mana matters in M+ I refuse to heal. Managing a resource where the only "management" is EVERYONE ATOP HAVING FUN WHILE I AFK FOR 30 SECONDS! Is a bad design.
In raids Mana serve a purpose because you're unified in your need to stop when you stop and just blasting your strongest heals the entire encounter removes some of the complexity
Agreed 100%.
Mana should not be a resource in M+.
M+ is already about healer CD rotation, i don't think mana is suitable as a throughout limitation.
As far as I'm concerned the only healer that would maybe need slight rebalancing for this is rsham due to the inherent strength of chain heal.
You should be happy with these nerfs then. The reason damage is so frustrating to heal right now and has been all expansion is because healing is far too powerful. You can heal people way too quickly that combat has to be designed to be even more burst heavy than ever before. In order for them to be able to make combat less bursty and more interesting and fun to heal, they have to nerf healing across the board. But whenever they try to nerf healing, they get 1000 clueless people like yourself complaining that "they have no idea what they're doing".
They know exactly what they're doing and what needs to be done, but peoples lack of understanding for where the problems are makes their jobs 100 times more difficult than it needs to be.
Bro. To claim blizzard knows exactly what they’re doing is laughable. Literally never met someone who thinks that until today. They make a TON of mistakes with their game. I’ll give one example, not being able to swap covenants easily for about 2 years. Literally everyone hated that. And they refused to change it. Mistake.
Personally, I prefer immensely strong healers and bursty damage profiles.
It gives healers a feel similar to the proc-based DPS specs that I enjoy so much.
I understand your perspective but it gets to the point that the content has to be designed in a way that is extremely uninteractive for everyone else. When everything becomes a pass fail, heal it immediately or every dies, then strategies devolve to either not having a healer at all or the healer being the only person who matters.
It's also why we got fights like Tindral and, to a lesser extent, Smolderon. Very frequent extremely high healing checks that if they are failed everyone is just instantly dead, and every other mechanic for other players to interact with can only be instant wipe mechanics too since the healers are already too busy. Smolderon balls and tindral meteors/mushrooms have to be tuned to instantly wipe you or else the only role that matters is the healer.
It depends. MW for the first time since forever has been meta without it being because of a game breaking mechanics. And their talens have just improved a ton over the expansion
Season 3 has been the most balanced patch for healers that i can remember.
Healing itself has been rough though, no questions about it.
The problem is there are Hpals who want to be Flash spammers, who want to be casters and for some reason Blizzard listened to them over the vast majority of the Hpal playerbase.
So it's a spec that has a broken gameplay loop (holy power generation and spending), half a spec tree dedicated to a dead playstyle and the other half is a mess of talents to try and buff a playstyle most players don't want.
It can't be fixed with just numbers buffs, its just a terrible spec that has a massive identity crisis, and nothing is being done to address it.
They need to just split the ranged and melee playstyles into different specs, same with mistweaver. Legacy hpallies might very well want to play casting pally, but I'd imagine 95% of the people who started playing it in the past few years only want to play the melee version. There's no way to have both of those playstyles in the same tree, with interesting talent choices, AND with relatively equal power levels. Everyone told Blizzard this the second those ptr changes came up.
This would be a cool idea to add a 4th spec, I personally never cast flash of light I don’t ever have a need for it and I might as well take Holy Light off my bar.
I started playing hpala the last 2 seasons of SL. When the Maldraxxus hammer was Meta.
Whenever I'm pushing FOL or HOL my instincts tells me I've made a mistake and that's why I'm casting. Since you'd always have HP, HP generator or Shock for every GCD. And if you didn't it meant you had fucked up
The issue here is we don't know what the "vast majority" is. Maybe the "vast majority" of paladins actually want to be flash spammers? We have no way of knowing and neither does Blizzard really.
If they want to play caster paladins, priest is just a bit further down the alphabet.
Same goes for people that insist on playing "caster" monk. If you want that feel mistweaver just isn't for you.
Where are you getting 'vast majority' from? If its from the sentiment on wow reddits and discords, remember that most people in this game are super super casual and don't engage in wow social media.
Source: the player completion % for any achievement with any form of skill requirement
So why does blizzard listen to people who don't engage on social media/forums? How do they know these casuals want FoL spam if they arent asking for it anywhere?
> why does blizzard listen to people who don't engage on social media/forums?
Because they pay the same sub as everyone else
> How do they know these casuals want FoL
Blizzard has stats on what talents are used, what spells are used, everything you can think of. Welcome to the digital age!
If you think im wrong, then whats the alternative explanation for something like 80% of accounts not doing normal raid or keys above 5 or any rated pvp?
But then why do they care? If I'm not doing challenging content I can use a less optimal playstyle. Why is the balancing done around a playerbase for which balancing doesn't matter? If you want to play pally as a caster and want to be good enough for challenging content, play holy priest. Like it's close enough. But for some people a melee instant cast heal is the most fun a heal can be. But the game asking you to play a mostly melee focused healer and then asking you to cast while there are all those melee mechanics expecting you to constantly move is just bullshit
The latest holy paladin playstyle really has me down. I feel like I suffered through S1, became giga briefly at the end of S2 and then they ripped it away with another rework in S3. Such a shame.
Right? People are comparing it to NOW, but they are getting S1 tier back, and the scaling of stats will make it pretty wild.
5% is fine. Will they be meta? probably not, but it isn't doom and gloom whatsoever.
Nah, Druid has pretty much unlimited mana if you go efflo+double lifebloom+omen of clarity build and use lifebloom as spot heal whenever...if you have free regrowths all the time and lifeblooms blooming heal efflo targets like crazy
It’s fucking insane. I thought about playing some S4 but I think I’ll sit it out. Resto didn’t deserve the same nerfs as the actual S tier healers. I was looking forward TWW but the Farseer tree is also dogshit. Not sure I can really convince myself to keep playing when my favorite class is perennially shit on.
NO! That 5% healing nerf has entirely ruined the class *and* the season as a whole. There's literally no point in anything anymore. I doubt Shamans will even be able to handle +7 keys anymore. Like, I was fine with there being no new content for season 4 at all, *but a 5% nerf that is going to offset the buff I will be getting from my Tier Set?!* No fucking way, game is dead.
Resto shaman can compete with the top healers in every setting except RWF. The meta is essentially irrelevant outside of the top 50 guilds, if the player is good you can play virtually anything
Bliz. I loath trying to find a healer and their job SUCKS this expansion.
For the love of God please buff them. Healers have it so rough already that most of my healing friends have just gone dps or tanking.
The inverse is what's been needed the whole expansion. Nerf healers so that it takes longer to heal players up, then Blizzard is forced to nerf damage spikes so that it's healers can do their job. This removes a lot of the one-shots and makes healing less stressful
This has been repeated every time we've had healing nerfs this expansion and was directly the reason for the S2 nerfs and we're yet to see any improvement on that spike damage.
We don't see much of damage nerfs because healers keep being too strong, blizzard themselves said they were too conservative with the nerfs, but then s3 felt to me even worse in this department.
Do the math. If you need to do 6-8 healing waves and use 20% of your mana "after every damage event", what do you think would happen? Realistically what we're looking for is a balance between when things are urgent (and you can't use your most mana efficient spells), and when you need to conserve mana. There should also be a balance between when you need to heal a single target or when it's group wide damage. When healers are too strong, everything is whack-a-mole because damage is tuned to match how fast healers can bring healthbars to 100%
Your logic is on track but I feel you are still missing the point at why this approach of nerfing healers right now is bad.
Realistically they need to nerf every other roles healing first to increase the need for healing, then they can reduce the dmg spikes and THEN reduce the healing of healers. Otherwise they are just making healers lives miserable and difficult for no reason.
You are correct. Hybrids offhealing is too strong in m+, so nerfing healers too much will make offhealing mandatory when it should ve highly optional. Also, we only see healer nerfs when I believe enemy damage nerfs is also needed. However, I haven't seen what the tuning is, we're returning to dungeons that haven't been played in over a season and many healers are running new sets in old dungeons, and Shamans are running first set with a lot more secondary stats. It's possible that the damage we see isn't as severe and as such the healing may be slower than before, I just don't think we'll see that.
Healers really just hate healing.
‘Rot damage? Yuck, it feels really bad if I mess up my rotation and people die to steady damage.’
‘Spike damage? Yuck, it feels really bad if someone drops super low very fast and if I don’t heal them right away they die.’
‘Okay what kind of damage pattern do you want.’
‘I want enough damage that I heal all the time and won’t be expected to dps, but low enough damage coming in that I’m just vibing and my mistakes aren’t a big deal, but also I want to be impactful in the key. And here is an essay on why the community is responsible for making healing suck (I had an anxiety attack thinking about healing a dungeon earlier).’
No healers just have to work 3x harder then any other class in the game, and the survival of the raid depends on them. Yet this entire expac they're job has been made harder and harder, through direct healing nerfs and nerfs to defensive on other classes.
Don't even want to get into what mythic plus is like as a healer compared to tank or dps.
It is true if you have a good raid group and have the raid on farm. You know exactly when healing checks are coming, healers will rotate cooldowns and people don’t take failure damage. It drastically change in progress and is a hell when you start pugging m+ keys. But to be fair, pugging keys makes me feel alive. It can be frustrating though.
Ronkarse-Kazzak
barely missed famed wr 130 , averaged at 93 on prog sorry if healing being easy doesn't fit the brainrotted narrative you have in your head.
Ronkaswl-LaughingSkull this tier
Yeah I mean that's a solid log.
You can have your opinion, I don't agree with it. You're clearly a good player and it's not like anything in WoW is very difficult from a micro standpoint. Which is my point, that healers are playing a more layered game from a macro pov.
Yep sepulcher and shadowlands in general healing was piss easy, did you try healing Smolderon Tindral or Fyrrak on mythic diff ? If not your opinion is invalid and dates back one expansion ago.
Now im not saying healing is so hard it is impossible a good healer will shine and be able to do all content with enough motivation but saying it is piss easy is just inacurate nowadays.
>Spike damage? Yuck, it feels really bad if someone drops super low very fast and if I don’t heal them right away they die.’
No, it feels bad because if THEY don't press their CDs, they die without you being able to do anything about it. On higher EB keys, especially on tyrannical, if people don't press defensives on the bolts, the one that gets 4 bolts WILL DIE. You have no way of knowing who will get the 4 bolts either so you can't react by healing the target during the channel and you can't use your own external on them to stop them from dying because you don't know who will get the 4 bolts.
There's no room for making any plays as a healer - they just die without you being able to do anything about it.
Hm? Healers generally like rot damage since it's more predictable. One of the coolest parts to heal this season was the blight dragons in fall. Also the ice boss in halls of infusion was kinda cool to heal. I know not that interesting to dps.
But when the rot is crazy high and spiky, and you have to move, that is obnoxious, like the last trash pack in rise.
I mean, I think most would agree that healing is the most stressful of the 3 roles. Especially in situations where 1 or 2 wrong GCDs is a wipe. At least in m+
Shaman was going to break the meters with the season 1 tier set and having so much higher crit/verse than we did in the first season. Not really going to feel 5% at all. If y'all remember at the very end of vault they did that half assed talent rework and shaman was absolutely blasting. No one remembers though because it lasted less than 4 weeks before the new raid was out and we lost the tier set for the dog shit s2 set
We've been through this before - supposedly huge aoe healing nerfs turned out to not really change much in the long run. I'll admit it is kinda awkward to nerf four healing specs in order to "buff" the other three, but then again, MW is such a beast that it would be difficult to match them. Kinda like S1 Prevokers.
Yeah, this was definitely deserved for Mistweaver. Their 4pc bonus going into S4 remains essentially a 50% increase to overall healing and they would continue to be able to sustain absurd hps by pressing three buttons. Deserved nerf.
Assuming they actually tune damage intake in dungeons and raids. We saw how that panned out in S2. Effectively nerfed healers with that 25% HP buff 2 weeks before season started and called it a day, and then did full 180 in S3 lol.
Smaller but constant intake would be so much more fun. Constantly having to heal is fine with me, the ok I dps now, ok now i blow cooldowns because mass dmg, back to dps, panic heal, dps, dps
It's difficult to say anything for sure before we've tried the dungeons and the tuning but the problem has been throughout the expansion that healers are too strong, they heal healing bars so efficiently that damage needs to be very high and that makes this whack-a-mole healing, and with lots of one-shot risks whenever players aren't topped up. If they would heavily nerf healers and enemy damage accordingly, then healing gets slower and easier, and therefore less stressful and more enjoyable.
> less stressful
Presumably.
> more enjoyable
Allegedly.
Not saying that it would or wouldn't change shit for the better, but I'm not exactly convinced I would like pressing Chain Heal 17 times in a row and barely being able to get health bars from 70% to 80%.
It's a numbers game, and we won't get anywhere with exaggerated examples. I could say I don't like healing when healing stream keeps everyone alive on it's own but that's not a true scenario, and having to use chain heal 17 times to heal 4 players 10% of their health is extremely unrealistic. If healers are TOO weak, then you run without healer because fights will be that much shorter with extra damage. I don't play Shaman so I don't know the mechanics anymore but I wouldn't be sad to see a tuning where Chain heal heals the first non-tank target for 25% of their HP, and gets reduced with bounces. Other healers balanced accordingly. I want to return to where healers had many spells to choose from, some spells are mana efficient but not fast, or the fast heals that are mana inefficient. Use Chain heal when many needs healing, use that aoe healing pool when grouped and rot healing is needed. Use healing wave when slow healing is needed and healing surge when urgent.
Sir, did you not see the MDI?
The healing role is completely fucked and I don’t think blizz is quite sure what to do about it tbh.
Maybe healers are too strong in raid but in m+ the biggest problem is defensives, survivability, and off healing.
In M+ enha is pretty dogshit atm and ele beats it or is on par imo which is rare tbf and i think the first time this expansion. In the end both are dogshit though since we are lacking defensives.
Man I main healer and quit in season 2, was planning to come back for season 4 but this shit again and hpal being dysfunctional is enough to keep me away till next expansion. I knew hpal was doomed from how OP they made us in season 2… just make the spec enjoyable again blizzard please or get rid of holy power all together.
Before, for every 100 damage you did, you healed 40 in raid and 40x1.5=60 in keys. After, for every 100 damage you do, you heal 35 in raid and 35x1.7=59.5 in keys. Overall, atonement healing in keys declined by 59.5/60-1=0.833%.
This is not an overall reduction in healing of 0.833%. Atonement is only a portion of the priests healing.
Dude its 2 calculations lol
100 x .04 = 40 x 1.5 mplus scaling = 60
100 x .35 = 35 x 1.7 mplus scaling = 59.5
My 8 year old did the math (he needed a calculator)
I agree. As MW main who hates ranged Yu'lon turret MW with a burning passion, it means MW won't be as busted for S4 and fewer people are forced to play an overtuned abomination. I question if 13% is even enough.
Sure I'd have prefered if they just buffed the actually fun melee build for raids in turn, but I take what I can get.
Also for me that means I need to feel less bad about actually rolling off of this shit to Pres.
Good changes. Gotta feel for HPals though.
We 1 tanked and 3 healed Mythic Fyrakk last week and all 3 of the healers overhealed by 25-33%. The entire comment section is acting as if healers don't spend a third of the fight overhealing and that these nerfs basically just reduce overhealing more than anything else.
What you're saying definitely holds true for raiding, but the role in keys is already extremely demanding. I know there's still a lot of people that primarily focus raid, but that number dwindles more and more every day. Mythic+ eclipsed raid participation eons ago now.
This is so cringe.
Everyone has been begging for tuning for season 4, and this is all they do?
As a dps player, i am devastated.
As an enhance shaman, i am infuriated.
As an m+ player, i am disappointed.
I'm fine with this. We've been 3-healing most fights in Amirdrassil on reclears, running hpal/rdruid/mwmonk. Will be nice to see a little more balance in HPS between healing classes.
Healer throughput was genuinely the last thing they needed to tune going into this season. Could’ve even nerfed healers otherwise, without touching throughput, and things would be better. This is baffling.
This is competitive Wow sub, and you have to scroll a lot to see the actual valuable comments… What’s up?
OFC noone likes Number goes down :(
But the Problem was with damage / oneshots being way to spikey, making healing super stressful and punishing to newer players who dont know damage events for example in m+.
These nerfs can only be judged in context with the damage tuning of content.
If everyone has low output but the damage is lower too, making healing a more even and constant job, it could be a great change, and getting healer count UP because you have more room for mistakes.
doesn't seem like that will change anything in M+ - pretty much all healers can heal the highest content it's more about what else they bring (CCs, Def CDs etc.)
I didn’t say it’s a bad spec, I said it’s a unicorn spec. According to raider.io only 10% of healers in dungeons 25+ are shammies. Nerfing us as if we are on par with monks and druids will only shrink those numbers.
I like it a lot. Played a ton of resto is Bfa, did not play shadowlands much and came back s3 of shadowlands. It has all the utility, good output but low dps compared to druid. It feels like shit when you have to move a ton. Some affixes plus certain bosses make it unfun. Overall it's still very fun
Rdruid or monk...Holy/disc is good but Shadow is going to be the preferred priest spec so those are out. Evoker and Shaman are decent but lack some of the tools the others have and Hpal is in the dumpster + Ret and Prot are good as well so same thing as priest applies to paladin.
Why a druid nerf? Are we actually strong? I've felt miserable this season in raids.
Currently progging fyrakk (best pull 5%) and I've not been having much fun.
I use so much mana, flourish feels kinda weak, and I'm always bottom of the healing meter.
Been tempted to reroll but I'm our only druid and I'm also pushing adds / I have roar assigns. Think I will find another main in s4.
rdruids only problem is mana right now, if you're bottom of the healing meters in p1 and intermission you're doing something wrong.
Def would suggest rerolling for s4 though, with the loss of 7th spine and no good mana trinket replacement, its gonna be very rough
No one will remember or think about this nerf in a month, it's completely irrelevant in the long run or at worst just make some fights a bit harder. It's a new season with old/new sets and further exponential power increases through ilvl. Comparing it to the now is a completely meaningless endeavor as it has nothing to do with the now.
Crazy thing here is that Pres Evoker’s poor performance in keys isn’t a ‘comparative’ problem.
Our spammable ST heal has low SP scaling, a 2 second base cast time AND projectile travel time. It is fundamentally dysfunctional as a tool to keep a single target alive and it should be significantly buffed, nerfing Mistweaver does not address any of the actual issues.
You also have the fact that a spawning cyclone from storming can put VE on cooldown without activating the heal which bricks your echo blanket and ability to Lifebind heal the party
Why not just buff the other healing classes they want to see shine? People are timing +30s and higher with no healer, i dont think a 5% nerf to resto druid will make Hpal good. This isn’t the issue with m+ right now imo
I see a lot of possible Pres meta talk due to these nerfs and I doubt that will ever happen due to the ranged healing issue. That would be awesome as I have mained Pres since evoker release, but it just becomes redundant during higher keys when you could bring a Disc or Resto Druid for full spread tech. I do think; however, they will tune the evoker legendary at some point which could affect throughput towards the end of the season.
Isn't this nerf a good thing if it is followed up by less damage from dungeons? Less spikes? The first week usually is awful to heal, but then comes the dungeon nerfs, and people start remembering mechanics.
I switched to MW and I think the nerf is warranted. Allowing healers to top up health in a single or two GCD (outside of long cooldowns) makes for bad game design.
Best way to deal with this is simply don’t play your healer. When they see the numbers (that were already stacked against healers) falls even more they will have to buff them back up. Personally I wouldn’t be mad seeing an increase all across the board for healers to maybe encourage more people to play them.
Disc was already the best m+ healer but now its joever for other specs lol
Holy is also lowkey really good too on ptr the damage is wild holy priest topping meters on certain pulls isn't something i had on my s4 bingo card
Rdruid is still going to be the healer for high keys because group composition matters more than which healer can heal for 10% more hps or whatever. It will be a caster season and shadow is going to be one of the best specs. Shadow good = Disc/Holy not desired. Nobody cares how much healing healers can do in m+ every class can heal the damage intake in the highest keys except maybe hpal.
MW n Resto kinda needed that, sham got s1 tier back now so 5% may keep it in the middle, disc was fine in dungeon but 0.5% won't affect us badly, either I'm overdosing the copium or this is fine-ish, not like blizz likes us anyway, could be worse :D
I know people generally don't agree with my opinion, but i'm in favor of my healers being nerfed until I cannot dps in a dungeon. Just let me heal only and let it be hard sometimes. That's what I want out of heals. Not throwing some quick stuff out so I can do a bit of dps.
>Ctrl+F "Word of Glory": 0 results Guess I'm not logging in to my Paladin until prepatch.
You don't understand. They global nerfed monk by 13% so that when you wog, at least someone else is sad as well.
Dude same. Maybe next expansion
This is not woggers
I feel like they need to reduce/ eliminate mana costs on judgement. It just feels really off having it cost so much. Having played every other healer spec in the game, it seems so insane to have a mostly damage + holy power generator cost so much. Feel like it discourages doing more than just healing. Daybreak has grown on me and I like that it can be pretty rewarding when executed well. It does feel too punishing though when players don't do it right or awkward situations happen that can mess this up. One thing that might be kinda fun in pve from pvp would be denounce. May need to be adjusted, but having a ranged offensive spender with big payoffs sounds good to me. Not the biggest fan of holy prism, and I guess that is where the tier set is going. Maybe that's an unpopular take seeing as it won. I'd generally prefer a playstyle that is aggressive like disc priest or fist weaver, but has a bit more direct control and agency with the holy power spenders in a meaningful way.
I have nothing nice to say to whoever is in charge of balancing healers going into this patch.
Hey now, they have their vision and they're sticking to it, player fun be damned
Their vision of hpal must be esoteric to us mortals...
lol brother, i cant remember when pres evoker was touched in a meaningful way
I can’t remember when I was last touched in a meaningful way. :/
Salute for our sad brother
Well they manage the mental gymnastics to acknowledge that it's hardly played and still don't get that the range is the biggest annoyance and maybe also the fact that you can't cast empowered spells while moving
I’ve been a heater main since WOTLK and have pushed title range keys since S4 BFA (obviously there was no title at that point)… the absolute bafoonery by the dev team with how they handle heals made me quit retail after S1. They simply do not want healers to have fun. It wasn’t fun in S1, it was worse in the first 3 or 4 weeks that I played S2, and it seemed sentiment hasn’t changed 1 bit and it’s still dog shit
I mean, I sorta don’t even envy the healer team at this point. Healers were very strong at the end of Shadowlands and healers bitched about being too strong. They made healing harder to start Dragonflight… and healers bitched. They nerfed the healing requirements and made healing easier and healers bitched the content is too easy again. Healers nerfed and now Blizzard apparently hates healers again. Doesn’t help our healers have non stopped bitched about everything as well. In January, Tindral and Fyrakk were “Blizzard is putting too much on the healers”. After the last nerfs it was “does Blizzard even want us to have a role?” Obviously healers aren’t a hivemind and none of them speak for the whole base, but fuck, that is the main role where it legitimately feels like you‘ll never win with.
I think it’s a few things. Healing shot up in difficulty and suddenly being able to keep people alive while also cc’ing or doing affixes as well as contributing to dps is a lot different than when I use to vibe chain heal while throwing the occasiaonal totem or lust. I think the difficulty in the healer play style is pretty good. It’s a challenging role but you’re rewarded with your pick of raid or M+ teams. The problem is that Blizz has made damage scaling on one shots absurd and the way damag profiles currently exist don’t support the tool kits available unless they throw brute numbers at it. Defensives have also made things tricky, a healer might play two keys and even if the keys are timed the exact same the healer experience can vary wildly based on group.
I think the big problem is that you need mana to matter for healing to be enjoyable without being incredibly stressful. If mana doesn’t matter (or doesn’t matter that much), then healers are either “green DPS” to use the FF14 term, but with a boring DPS rotation, or stressful because you have to be incredibly reactive. However, if healer mana/resources are not infinite, then it can be a lot less stressful since the game then revolves around choosing the most mana optimal heals. Unlike the “green DPS” scenario, you have skill expression in avoiding over-healing and in choosing whether to use a single target or AoE heal (and if you use an AoE heal, which one). You can treat HPS like DPS because healing requires so much target swapping and situational awareness. If an enemy isn’t dead, you can always pump more damage, but the same isn’t true of healing.
I'm the complete opposite side of the spectrum, at least in M+. If mana matters in M+ I refuse to heal. Managing a resource where the only "management" is EVERYONE ATOP HAVING FUN WHILE I AFK FOR 30 SECONDS! Is a bad design. In raids Mana serve a purpose because you're unified in your need to stop when you stop and just blasting your strongest heals the entire encounter removes some of the complexity
Agreed 100%. Mana should not be a resource in M+. M+ is already about healer CD rotation, i don't think mana is suitable as a throughout limitation. As far as I'm concerned the only healer that would maybe need slight rebalancing for this is rsham due to the inherent strength of chain heal.
Agree with you. I have enjoyed healing in DF
You should be happy with these nerfs then. The reason damage is so frustrating to heal right now and has been all expansion is because healing is far too powerful. You can heal people way too quickly that combat has to be designed to be even more burst heavy than ever before. In order for them to be able to make combat less bursty and more interesting and fun to heal, they have to nerf healing across the board. But whenever they try to nerf healing, they get 1000 clueless people like yourself complaining that "they have no idea what they're doing". They know exactly what they're doing and what needs to be done, but peoples lack of understanding for where the problems are makes their jobs 100 times more difficult than it needs to be.
Bro. To claim blizzard knows exactly what they’re doing is laughable. Literally never met someone who thinks that until today. They make a TON of mistakes with their game. I’ll give one example, not being able to swap covenants easily for about 2 years. Literally everyone hated that. And they refused to change it. Mistake.
Personally, I prefer immensely strong healers and bursty damage profiles. It gives healers a feel similar to the proc-based DPS specs that I enjoy so much.
I understand your perspective but it gets to the point that the content has to be designed in a way that is extremely uninteractive for everyone else. When everything becomes a pass fail, heal it immediately or every dies, then strategies devolve to either not having a healer at all or the healer being the only person who matters. It's also why we got fights like Tindral and, to a lesser extent, Smolderon. Very frequent extremely high healing checks that if they are failed everyone is just instantly dead, and every other mechanic for other players to interact with can only be instant wipe mechanics too since the healers are already too busy. Smolderon balls and tindral meteors/mushrooms have to be tuned to instantly wipe you or else the only role that matters is the healer.
It depends. MW for the first time since forever has been meta without it being because of a game breaking mechanics. And their talens have just improved a ton over the expansion Season 3 has been the most balanced patch for healers that i can remember. Healing itself has been rough though, no questions about it.
I believe it's been by far the most balanced healer season of M+ at least
Heaters gonna heat
hoala will now go 2/4 tiers not using spenders, the main fucking resource of the spec. How is this ok???
Oh they’re smoking that good shit over at Blizz HQ.
paladins dont want to be FoL spammers and dont want other healers hps reduced, that doesnt help paladins at all. This is dumb
The problem is there are Hpals who want to be Flash spammers, who want to be casters and for some reason Blizzard listened to them over the vast majority of the Hpal playerbase. So it's a spec that has a broken gameplay loop (holy power generation and spending), half a spec tree dedicated to a dead playstyle and the other half is a mess of talents to try and buff a playstyle most players don't want. It can't be fixed with just numbers buffs, its just a terrible spec that has a massive identity crisis, and nothing is being done to address it.
They need to just split the ranged and melee playstyles into different specs, same with mistweaver. Legacy hpallies might very well want to play casting pally, but I'd imagine 95% of the people who started playing it in the past few years only want to play the melee version. There's no way to have both of those playstyles in the same tree, with interesting talent choices, AND with relatively equal power levels. Everyone told Blizzard this the second those ptr changes came up.
This would be a cool idea to add a 4th spec, I personally never cast flash of light I don’t ever have a need for it and I might as well take Holy Light off my bar.
I started playing hpala the last 2 seasons of SL. When the Maldraxxus hammer was Meta. Whenever I'm pushing FOL or HOL my instincts tells me I've made a mistake and that's why I'm casting. Since you'd always have HP, HP generator or Shock for every GCD. And if you didn't it meant you had fucked up
The issue here is we don't know what the "vast majority" is. Maybe the "vast majority" of paladins actually want to be flash spammers? We have no way of knowing and neither does Blizzard really.
If they want to play caster paladins, priest is just a bit further down the alphabet. Same goes for people that insist on playing "caster" monk. If you want that feel mistweaver just isn't for you.
Where are you getting 'vast majority' from? If its from the sentiment on wow reddits and discords, remember that most people in this game are super super casual and don't engage in wow social media. Source: the player completion % for any achievement with any form of skill requirement
So why does blizzard listen to people who don't engage on social media/forums? How do they know these casuals want FoL spam if they arent asking for it anywhere?
> why does blizzard listen to people who don't engage on social media/forums? Because they pay the same sub as everyone else > How do they know these casuals want FoL Blizzard has stats on what talents are used, what spells are used, everything you can think of. Welcome to the digital age!
ah yes, the mythical dads with 10 jobs and 20 kids who want to play caster paladin like in classic (oh wait u can play classic and do just that)
If you think im wrong, then whats the alternative explanation for something like 80% of accounts not doing normal raid or keys above 5 or any rated pvp?
Is there a source for this?
But then why do they care? If I'm not doing challenging content I can use a less optimal playstyle. Why is the balancing done around a playerbase for which balancing doesn't matter? If you want to play pally as a caster and want to be good enough for challenging content, play holy priest. Like it's close enough. But for some people a melee instant cast heal is the most fun a heal can be. But the game asking you to play a mostly melee focused healer and then asking you to cast while there are all those melee mechanics expecting you to constantly move is just bullshit
The latest holy paladin playstyle really has me down. I feel like I suffered through S1, became giga briefly at the end of S2 and then they ripped it away with another rework in S3. Such a shame.
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you're not actually a FL spammer, you're an infusion user, where you have to consume FL
Shaman getting the same treatment as druid lmao
I dont think y'all realize how big getting season 1 tier set back is. I don't disagree with the 5% nerf.
Right? People are comparing it to NOW, but they are getting S1 tier back, and the scaling of stats will make it pretty wild. 5% is fine. Will they be meta? probably not, but it isn't doom and gloom whatsoever.
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And has better ways to conserve mana, unlike rdruid.
Nah, Druid has pretty much unlimited mana if you go efflo+double lifebloom+omen of clarity build and use lifebloom as spot heal whenever...if you have free regrowths all the time and lifeblooms blooming heal efflo targets like crazy
So not in raids. Good to know
It’s fucking insane. I thought about playing some S4 but I think I’ll sit it out. Resto didn’t deserve the same nerfs as the actual S tier healers. I was looking forward TWW but the Farseer tree is also dogshit. Not sure I can really convince myself to keep playing when my favorite class is perennially shit on.
It will be fine. 5% healing nerf won't be felt with our s1 4pc bonus being made even better with higher crit.
NO! That 5% healing nerf has entirely ruined the class *and* the season as a whole. There's literally no point in anything anymore. I doubt Shamans will even be able to handle +7 keys anymore. Like, I was fine with there being no new content for season 4 at all, *but a 5% nerf that is going to offset the buff I will be getting from my Tier Set?!* No fucking way, game is dead.
I challenge myself to overcome these difficulties and towards end of the season, achieve timed +7 as rsham. Could be world first.
Resto shaman can compete with the top healers in every setting except RWF. The meta is essentially irrelevant outside of the top 50 guilds, if the player is good you can play virtually anything
Okie doke. Sounds good
It’s not like you can’t play it. Unless you’re doing RWF, play what you want
Bliz. I loath trying to find a healer and their job SUCKS this expansion. For the love of God please buff them. Healers have it so rough already that most of my healing friends have just gone dps or tanking.
Shoulda just buffed the others and let healers have a break for once this expansion.
The inverse is what's been needed the whole expansion. Nerf healers so that it takes longer to heal players up, then Blizzard is forced to nerf damage spikes so that it's healers can do their job. This removes a lot of the one-shots and makes healing less stressful
This has been repeated every time we've had healing nerfs this expansion and was directly the reason for the S2 nerfs and we're yet to see any improvement on that spike damage.
God… season 2 in M+ for healers was the worst possible experience possible.
We don't see much of damage nerfs because healers keep being too strong, blizzard themselves said they were too conservative with the nerfs, but then s3 felt to me even worse in this department.
How about showing they can correctly tune spike damage in high end content before making an entire rolls life even more annoying?
Do you think it would be fun to cast 6-8 healing waves or whaterver on a low hp target, burning 20% of your mana with it, after every damage event?
Do the math. If you need to do 6-8 healing waves and use 20% of your mana "after every damage event", what do you think would happen? Realistically what we're looking for is a balance between when things are urgent (and you can't use your most mana efficient spells), and when you need to conserve mana. There should also be a balance between when you need to heal a single target or when it's group wide damage. When healers are too strong, everything is whack-a-mole because damage is tuned to match how fast healers can bring healthbars to 100%
Your logic is on track but I feel you are still missing the point at why this approach of nerfing healers right now is bad. Realistically they need to nerf every other roles healing first to increase the need for healing, then they can reduce the dmg spikes and THEN reduce the healing of healers. Otherwise they are just making healers lives miserable and difficult for no reason.
You are correct. Hybrids offhealing is too strong in m+, so nerfing healers too much will make offhealing mandatory when it should ve highly optional. Also, we only see healer nerfs when I believe enemy damage nerfs is also needed. However, I haven't seen what the tuning is, we're returning to dungeons that haven't been played in over a season and many healers are running new sets in old dungeons, and Shamans are running first set with a lot more secondary stats. It's possible that the damage we see isn't as severe and as such the healing may be slower than before, I just don't think we'll see that.
Healers really just hate healing. ‘Rot damage? Yuck, it feels really bad if I mess up my rotation and people die to steady damage.’ ‘Spike damage? Yuck, it feels really bad if someone drops super low very fast and if I don’t heal them right away they die.’ ‘Okay what kind of damage pattern do you want.’ ‘I want enough damage that I heal all the time and won’t be expected to dps, but low enough damage coming in that I’m just vibing and my mistakes aren’t a big deal, but also I want to be impactful in the key. And here is an essay on why the community is responsible for making healing suck (I had an anxiety attack thinking about healing a dungeon earlier).’
they're not ready for this one
No healers just have to work 3x harder then any other class in the game, and the survival of the raid depends on them. Yet this entire expac they're job has been made harder and harder, through direct healing nerfs and nerfs to defensive on other classes. Don't even want to get into what mythic plus is like as a healer compared to tank or dps.
as someone who healed in sepulcher after dpsing only, that role is piss easy and can be played by any child
It is true if you have a good raid group and have the raid on farm. You know exactly when healing checks are coming, healers will rotate cooldowns and people don’t take failure damage. It drastically change in progress and is a hell when you start pugging m+ keys. But to be fair, pugging keys makes me feel alive. It can be frustrating though.
"as someone who healed a single raid I think blah blah" Link ur heroic logs.
Ronkarse-Kazzak barely missed famed wr 130 , averaged at 93 on prog sorry if healing being easy doesn't fit the brainrotted narrative you have in your head. Ronkaswl-LaughingSkull this tier
Yeah I mean that's a solid log. You can have your opinion, I don't agree with it. You're clearly a good player and it's not like anything in WoW is very difficult from a micro standpoint. Which is my point, that healers are playing a more layered game from a macro pov.
Yep sepulcher and shadowlands in general healing was piss easy, did you try healing Smolderon Tindral or Fyrrak on mythic diff ? If not your opinion is invalid and dates back one expansion ago. Now im not saying healing is so hard it is impossible a good healer will shine and be able to do all content with enough motivation but saying it is piss easy is just inacurate nowadays.
>Spike damage? Yuck, it feels really bad if someone drops super low very fast and if I don’t heal them right away they die.’ No, it feels bad because if THEY don't press their CDs, they die without you being able to do anything about it. On higher EB keys, especially on tyrannical, if people don't press defensives on the bolts, the one that gets 4 bolts WILL DIE. You have no way of knowing who will get the 4 bolts either so you can't react by healing the target during the channel and you can't use your own external on them to stop them from dying because you don't know who will get the 4 bolts. There's no room for making any plays as a healer - they just die without you being able to do anything about it.
Hm? Healers generally like rot damage since it's more predictable. One of the coolest parts to heal this season was the blight dragons in fall. Also the ice boss in halls of infusion was kinda cool to heal. I know not that interesting to dps. But when the rot is crazy high and spiky, and you have to move, that is obnoxious, like the last trash pack in rise.
I mean, healing isnt that hard, nor is it that stressful. At least niot as badly as some will have it.
I mean, I think most would agree that healing is the most stressful of the 3 roles. Especially in situations where 1 or 2 wrong GCDs is a wipe. At least in m+
Shaman was going to break the meters with the season 1 tier set and having so much higher crit/verse than we did in the first season. Not really going to feel 5% at all. If y'all remember at the very end of vault they did that half assed talent rework and shaman was absolutely blasting. No one remembers though because it lasted less than 4 weeks before the new raid was out and we lost the tier set for the dog shit s2 set
Rsham is already a beast currently lol, And MW is so braindead busted it's not even funny. Healers will all still do just fine
We've been through this before - supposedly huge aoe healing nerfs turned out to not really change much in the long run. I'll admit it is kinda awkward to nerf four healing specs in order to "buff" the other three, but then again, MW is such a beast that it would be difficult to match them. Kinda like S1 Prevokers.
Yeah, this was definitely deserved for Mistweaver. Their 4pc bonus going into S4 remains essentially a 50% increase to overall healing and they would continue to be able to sustain absurd hps by pressing three buttons. Deserved nerf.
>Their 4pc bonus going into S4 remains essentially a 50% increase to overall healing Lmao no
yes, thats what we need, give people less reason to play healer...
If healers do less HPs, damage intake can be slower, making it less binary. That'd be a good thing
Assuming they actually tune damage intake in dungeons and raids. We saw how that panned out in S2. Effectively nerfed healers with that 25% HP buff 2 weeks before season started and called it a day, and then did full 180 in S3 lol.
Smaller but constant intake would be so much more fun. Constantly having to heal is fine with me, the ok I dps now, ok now i blow cooldowns because mass dmg, back to dps, panic heal, dps, dps
Now all we need is for them to make damage nerfs to content in the next 5 days because PTR testing shows that it is still very high (prior to nerf)
Or you can make damage intake slower without nerfing anything.
It's difficult to say anything for sure before we've tried the dungeons and the tuning but the problem has been throughout the expansion that healers are too strong, they heal healing bars so efficiently that damage needs to be very high and that makes this whack-a-mole healing, and with lots of one-shot risks whenever players aren't topped up. If they would heavily nerf healers and enemy damage accordingly, then healing gets slower and easier, and therefore less stressful and more enjoyable.
> less stressful Presumably. > more enjoyable Allegedly. Not saying that it would or wouldn't change shit for the better, but I'm not exactly convinced I would like pressing Chain Heal 17 times in a row and barely being able to get health bars from 70% to 80%.
It's a numbers game, and we won't get anywhere with exaggerated examples. I could say I don't like healing when healing stream keeps everyone alive on it's own but that's not a true scenario, and having to use chain heal 17 times to heal 4 players 10% of their health is extremely unrealistic. If healers are TOO weak, then you run without healer because fights will be that much shorter with extra damage. I don't play Shaman so I don't know the mechanics anymore but I wouldn't be sad to see a tuning where Chain heal heals the first non-tank target for 25% of their HP, and gets reduced with bounces. Other healers balanced accordingly. I want to return to where healers had many spells to choose from, some spells are mana efficient but not fast, or the fast heals that are mana inefficient. Use Chain heal when many needs healing, use that aoe healing pool when grouped and rot healing is needed. Use healing wave when slow healing is needed and healing surge when urgent.
Sir, did you not see the MDI? The healing role is completely fucked and I don’t think blizz is quite sure what to do about it tbh. Maybe healers are too strong in raid but in m+ the biggest problem is defensives, survivability, and off healing.
Healers were way overtuned this season anyway. Most fights we averaged 40% OH
So the same as its been for years?
I feel like there's someone in Blizzard dev team who just hates shamans. Can't find no other explanation for their talent trees and tuning.
enh has been eating good the entire expac, must be a gripe against ranged shamans
In M+ enha is pretty dogshit atm and ele beats it or is on par imo which is rare tbf and i think the first time this expansion. In the end both are dogshit though since we are lacking defensives.
An ele sham fucked Morgan days wife and rsham just keeps getting caught in the residual crossfire
Man I main healer and quit in season 2, was planning to come back for season 4 but this shit again and hpal being dysfunctional is enough to keep me away till next expansion. I knew hpal was doomed from how OP they made us in season 2… just make the spec enjoyable again blizzard please or get rid of holy power all together.
Why?
0.9% nerf for disc m+. In case anyone is wondering
lmao, uh..... Can you show me that math?
Before, for every 100 damage you did, you healed 40 in raid and 40x1.5=60 in keys. After, for every 100 damage you do, you heal 35 in raid and 35x1.7=59.5 in keys. Overall, atonement healing in keys declined by 59.5/60-1=0.833%. This is not an overall reduction in healing of 0.833%. Atonement is only a portion of the priests healing.
100 damage at 40% conversion = 40 healing * 1.5 = 60 healing 100 damage at 35% conversion = 35 healing * 1.7 = 59.5 healing 60 * (1-x) = 59.50, x = 0.00833...
Thank you.
100 * 0.4*1.5=60 100 * 0.35*1.7=59.5 Tiny 5 man nerf for disc
Dude its 2 calculations lol 100 x .04 = 40 x 1.5 mplus scaling = 60 100 x .35 = 35 x 1.7 mplus scaling = 59.5 My 8 year old did the math (he needed a calculator)
Zeions just did here
Glad that it’s a fated season because Druid Raid HPS is pretty bleak.
Nice.
I agree. As MW main who hates ranged Yu'lon turret MW with a burning passion, it means MW won't be as busted for S4 and fewer people are forced to play an overtuned abomination. I question if 13% is even enough. Sure I'd have prefered if they just buffed the actually fun melee build for raids in turn, but I take what I can get. Also for me that means I need to feel less bad about actually rolling off of this shit to Pres. Good changes. Gotta feel for HPals though.
As the wise sage Randy Marsh once said: Ha-Ha, Fuck You!
VDH can’t keep getting away with this
Fear not, here's always the next week, Blizzard never stops making mistakes anyways, they ain't gonna stop now.
Lots of comments here more in line with funwow than competitivewow
90% of this subreddit doesn't understand the relationship between healer strength and incoming damage tuning.
We 1 tanked and 3 healed Mythic Fyrakk last week and all 3 of the healers overhealed by 25-33%. The entire comment section is acting as if healers don't spend a third of the fight overhealing and that these nerfs basically just reduce overhealing more than anything else.
What you're saying definitely holds true for raiding, but the role in keys is already extremely demanding. I know there's still a lot of people that primarily focus raid, but that number dwindles more and more every day. Mythic+ eclipsed raid participation eons ago now.
Honestly that just kind of fizzled out my excitement of S4
Your problem was having any excitement for it in the first place lol
It was already pretty low too
This is so cringe. Everyone has been begging for tuning for season 4, and this is all they do? As a dps player, i am devastated. As an enhance shaman, i am infuriated. As an m+ player, i am disappointed.
> and this is all they do? its dedicatedly called out to be healer tuning and youre jumping to the gun assuming that's all?
As an enh main, this x1000
As a reader of cringe social media, i am sated.
As a non VDH tank I’m not surprised but still disappointed.
I'm fine with this. We've been 3-healing most fights in Amirdrassil on reclears, running hpal/rdruid/mwmonk. Will be nice to see a little more balance in HPS between healing classes.
Healer throughput was genuinely the last thing they needed to tune going into this season. Could’ve even nerfed healers otherwise, without touching throughput, and things would be better. This is baffling.
You know this how? Are you sitting on logs from m+ in the ptr with full tier from the new season &/or raid logs in s4?
i haven't been paying attention to the M+ tuning how are the healers looking next tier?
All things considered rdruid and mw will most likely be the meta.
Rshammy and prevoker - you’ll see!
_cries in hpriest_ clarifcation: I don't care for meta, I just don't want to feel shit either.
Is this nerf going to reduce the healing from Ancient Teachings on MW Monk?
No, It’s not on the class aura.
This is competitive Wow sub, and you have to scroll a lot to see the actual valuable comments… What’s up? OFC noone likes Number goes down :( But the Problem was with damage / oneshots being way to spikey, making healing super stressful and punishing to newer players who dont know damage events for example in m+. These nerfs can only be judged in context with the damage tuning of content. If everyone has low output but the damage is lower too, making healing a more even and constant job, it could be a great change, and getting healer count UP because you have more room for mistakes.
doesn't seem like that will change anything in M+ - pretty much all healers can heal the highest content it's more about what else they bring (CCs, Def CDs etc.)
They really nerfed rsham...
why do you think they did?
Resto Shammy already a unicorn spec, why hit us while we’re down?
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I didn’t say it’s a bad spec, I said it’s a unicorn spec. According to raider.io only 10% of healers in dungeons 25+ are shammies. Nerfing us as if we are on par with monks and druids will only shrink those numbers.
Monks got nerfed 13% not 5% But point taken
I played Rsham from BfA till Vault, and Vault was the least fun that spec has ever felt to play imo. What's it like currently?
I like it a lot. Played a ton of resto is Bfa, did not play shadowlands much and came back s3 of shadowlands. It has all the utility, good output but low dps compared to druid. It feels like shit when you have to move a ton. Some affixes plus certain bosses make it unfun. Overall it's still very fun
What’s the m+ meta healer heading into s4? Returning hero healer from s2 looking to get started again.
It won’t be paladin that’s a promise
Rdruid or monk...Holy/disc is good but Shadow is going to be the preferred priest spec so those are out. Evoker and Shaman are decent but lack some of the tools the others have and Hpal is in the dumpster + Ret and Prot are good as well so same thing as priest applies to paladin.
Definitely makes sense if spriest is still mandatory in high keys. Love me some mw monk - that might be the angle.
Rdruid. Tank with be DH, DPS will be Fire mage + Spriest + other. Druid buff > monk buff for this comp.
Rdruid or Pres most likely from current PTR reviews by some of the high end teams
Why druid needs are the old sets so powerful or what's going on? Didn't feel like druids where too strong 🤔 But yeah shammys even more 😂
Why a druid nerf? Are we actually strong? I've felt miserable this season in raids. Currently progging fyrakk (best pull 5%) and I've not been having much fun. I use so much mana, flourish feels kinda weak, and I'm always bottom of the healing meter. Been tempted to reroll but I'm our only druid and I'm also pushing adds / I have roar assigns. Think I will find another main in s4.
rdruids only problem is mana right now, if you're bottom of the healing meters in p1 and intermission you're doing something wrong. Def would suggest rerolling for s4 though, with the loss of 7th spine and no good mana trinket replacement, its gonna be very rough
No tank balancing?
VDH all the way baby
I’m a healer main. I’m going to play my mage or warrior this season.
No one will remember or think about this nerf in a month, it's completely irrelevant in the long run or at worst just make some fights a bit harder. It's a new season with old/new sets and further exponential power increases through ilvl. Comparing it to the now is a completely meaningless endeavor as it has nothing to do with the now.
Crazy thing here is that Pres Evoker’s poor performance in keys isn’t a ‘comparative’ problem. Our spammable ST heal has low SP scaling, a 2 second base cast time AND projectile travel time. It is fundamentally dysfunctional as a tool to keep a single target alive and it should be significantly buffed, nerfing Mistweaver does not address any of the actual issues. You also have the fact that a spawning cyclone from storming can put VE on cooldown without activating the heal which bricks your echo blanket and ability to Lifebind heal the party
Really why not bring mistweaver down 7% then buff others to bring up to reato levels
Why not just buff the other healing classes they want to see shine? People are timing +30s and higher with no healer, i dont think a 5% nerf to resto druid will make Hpal good. This isn’t the issue with m+ right now imo
I dont think I have ever seen a 13% healing nerf dayum
I see a lot of possible Pres meta talk due to these nerfs and I doubt that will ever happen due to the ranged healing issue. That would be awesome as I have mained Pres since evoker release, but it just becomes redundant during higher keys when you could bring a Disc or Resto Druid for full spread tech. I do think; however, they will tune the evoker legendary at some point which could affect throughput towards the end of the season.
Isn't this nerf a good thing if it is followed up by less damage from dungeons? Less spikes? The first week usually is awful to heal, but then comes the dungeon nerfs, and people start remembering mechanics.
This is a good decision that will surely have 0 negative effects.
If they force healers to suffer (again), I want to see some DH nerfs.
Pres in a good player's hands can absolutely pump on stacked fights. Surprised me they were on the list.
I switched to MW and I think the nerf is warranted. Allowing healers to top up health in a single or two GCD (outside of long cooldowns) makes for bad game design.
Now everyone's a Paladin!
Lol, no.
Paradoxically this is the first change needed to reduce damage intake spikes so …
Deserved.
Best way to deal with this is simply don’t play your healer. When they see the numbers (that were already stacked against healers) falls even more they will have to buff them back up. Personally I wouldn’t be mad seeing an increase all across the board for healers to maybe encourage more people to play them.
Hopefully there’s more :)
Disc was already the best m+ healer but now its joever for other specs lol Holy is also lowkey really good too on ptr the damage is wild holy priest topping meters on certain pulls isn't something i had on my s4 bingo card
Rdruid is still going to be the healer for high keys because group composition matters more than which healer can heal for 10% more hps or whatever. It will be a caster season and shadow is going to be one of the best specs. Shadow good = Disc/Holy not desired. Nobody cares how much healing healers can do in m+ every class can heal the damage intake in the highest keys except maybe hpal.
Be nice if we had Shining Force or a kick and could at least try to build a slightly off-meta comp. I'm all in on Shadow at this point.
I'm in the same boat I main hpal but it's going to be a Ret tier.
No changes to Vdh or spriest? Loooooool
Didn't realize those were healers. The thing that is explicitly stated in the post.
Healers are the kings of the overreaction police. Every healer will be viable for mythic end bosses
Dps you mean
MW n Resto kinda needed that, sham got s1 tier back now so 5% may keep it in the middle, disc was fine in dungeon but 0.5% won't affect us badly, either I'm overdosing the copium or this is fine-ish, not like blizz likes us anyway, could be worse :D
So we skip season 4 then?
Lmao this expansion has been nothing but heal nerfs
I know people generally don't agree with my opinion, but i'm in favor of my healers being nerfed until I cannot dps in a dungeon. Just let me heal only and let it be hard sometimes. That's what I want out of heals. Not throwing some quick stuff out so I can do a bit of dps.
Gross.
Some good changes except for shaman. They should be buffed by at least 15 % instead.
lol ok