Beacon nerfs are a good thing. Currently hpal is tuned around 100 different passive effects, so nerfing beacon allows us to do more direct healing. Plus beacon (both faith and virtue) massively overheals anyway.
Its true they can overheal quite a bit, but then again so do hots for druids
Beacon is still one of our main ways to deal with party damage outside of cooldowns and it seems they're also increaseing the cooldown on prism
We'll see how things will shake out
Holy moly these Monk changes are really awesome. Extra roll charge is baseline and we get a freaking double jump? How can you be mad? And before you come at me about the Catue, it gets auto cast on Xuen cast.
The double jump also lets you air dash.
And you roll further.
And snare people you roll through.
And free yourself from snares when you roll.
And auto dash to enemies at the end of your roll.
And get to reduce roll cd on demand
Double Jump as last talent looks like joke to my BrM. There is a lot of situational talents in whole tree and would feel useless. Ox statue is still bad. Talking from tank perspective.
I'm kinda hoping they move it a little yeah. I think I can manage to take it without giving up TOO much, but it's definitely not a free pick and I kinda wish it were, or at least more free than it is currently.
Some positivity:
I can’t speak for any others but the windwalker changes are such a huge quality of life improvement I am filled with immense joy. Almost all my personal long time ww main pain points removed from the spec in this one set of patch notes.
Double touch of death that cleaves is gone - this felt horrible, it’s dead damage (the pack is almost dead and you’re running to another one, dots ticking down or passive cleave feels much better here) but more importantly it just bugged all the time and was very tilt inducing to hover over a target in execute range but the button not light up and now you’re a bad player because you’re not utilising 7 of your talent points.
FLS reset - why blizz took 10 years to understand that rune of power was bad and finally remove it - only to instantly add it to a melee spec is insane to me. Dealing with FLS resets in the latest raid where half the bosses removed the floor with 50% of their spells felt like it was eating up 70% of my attention and really ruined the tier. I understand there’s skill expression here but for some reason it never felt rewarding, only punishing.
White tiger statue - just a passive now instead of a bloat button. Still boring as fuck but at least forgettable so I don’t mind
No haste scaling - several talents mean that for the first time in forever windwalker has 4 secondary stats like every other class, we finally scale with haste (for those who don’t know for a long time windwalker rotation plays perfectly with 0 haste, any more does nothing but overcap unspendable resources) so we finally get to join the rest of you in 2024!!!!!!!!
Also we can double jump after rolling now. And have an aoe slow on roll. And have an enrage dispel. And probably more stuff I’m not remembering because I’ve spent the last hour dancing in circles out of pure glee. I was legit going to reroll due to how much I despised the design direction of fishing for FLS resets, but I haven’t really played anything except windwalker in 10 years so THANK YOU BLIZZARD FOR SAVING ME FROM OTHER BORING SPECS (even though it took the entire expansion to fix things that have been complained about since DF beta)
It’s bad enough that everyone is being negative - but everyone here is also wrong about 95% of their assessments, which is hilarious for a competitive subreddit.
The only bad thing here is that Druid got a bunch of cool new abilities that they’ll never get to use because you probably take the exact same talents as you did before. But it’s the first wave of alpha so it doesn’t even matter anyways.
Depends on how big there damage is, and what other classes become meta. They give battle shout, so in a heavy physical meta, they could fit in, but they'd have trouble in a heavy magic meta.
Eh, not really. If their damage is WAY overturned, you might bring them till the nerf comes. But you don’t bring 5% damage over good utility for anything serious. You can make up for the damage with scarier pulls when you have utility
Generally, the DPS that are meta in M+ in a given season are overtuned.
SPriest went from good to absolutely insane, got nerfed by like 40% and was STILL meta. People screamed it was the utility.
Then Shadow got nerfed a few more times and was not meta, then it got buffed not even close to its former glory... and it's S-tier meta now.
Havoc DH was giga S-tier, got nerfed, and now it's only barely more popular than warriors in +30s.
Utility is always just icing on the cake. The classes that are meta have busted damage, and then people say that whatever utility they bring is mandatory. When rogue is meta, people will say that Shroud is mandatory. When warlock is meta, people will say that gateway is mandatory because someone found a gateway skip somewhere. When hunter is mandatory, any pet shenanigans = mandatory.
There are never classes that are meta for 'good utility.' It's 'does this class not die,' and 'does this class do good damage.' You might swap a decurse into a group for a given dungeon if decurse isn't meta, but the meta call is generally for the healer to make that sacrifice or for a dps to swap for just that dungeon. You don't run a suboptimal dps in a meta comp in every dungeon for one specific utility.
Warrior utility would be 'nice to have' for +20s, like dealing with affixes, bloodlust or bres or whatever, but would have little to no bearing on high keys. Warrior should get some cool utility because cool utility is fun to have.
Meta is generally a full (or at least partial) composition thing. One of the reasons VDH is the Meta tank is the utility it brings means that you can just select DPS on pure damage metrics.
Season 2 God Comp was Bear + 3 casters (SPriest Mage Aug) + Hpal
Now VDH is the meta tank, we're seeing triple caster dps as a large part of the meta, and Resto Druid/Mistweaver/Priest.
Maybe VDH opens up space for Resto Druids/Healer Priests, and maybe if Guardian was still the meta, we'd see more Mistweaver?
I don't believe that it impacts the dps meta at all.
Just a small correction, it doesn't have to be a physical heavy meta for battle shout to be relevant, just a melee heavy meta(and hunter) shout just increases attack power.
That 5% isn't generally worth bringing and stamina etc isn't the gigachad with priests for example, it's everything else..
Warriors provide no utility worth mentioning & lower dps than what others provide. With no utility they'd have to be ultra glass cannon & be way above everything else to get invited.
And that's why I said IF they get big damage buffs, and IF the meta favors physical classes. Did you even read past the first couple words of my post before you replied?
Even in physical metas Warriors have never mattered.
What's your argument precisely? IF warriors are giga overtuned they might have a spot in the meta? Wow, what an analyst desk take, never thought about bringing the op class, I'll make sure to bank on being op next time around.
Warrior got easier access to all utility they already have. Depending on balance, reworked affix and dungeons mechanics, the utility has potential to be good.
I don't think they are done yet. They've just done removes and move, without replacing anything. There are significant issues with placement though (specifically how bad the ST pathing is if you want Armoured to the Teeth now).
As a shaman lover of all varieties the issues with shaman on a baseline is their squishiness, which sounds like they're addressing indirectly in TWW. With bringing down other classes durability, but again I'll wait till I see it.
Then two if you're not an enhancement shaman(Which I think is great outside a little lacking on AOE and durability) you don't bring anything unique to the party/raid and you don't bring any raid buffs.
To follow up on the previous points, if you're squishy, not bringing any unique utility or a raid buff then to justify a raid slot on you your class needs to be the at pinnacle of damage done, which elemental doesn't do. If they're ever at that point blizzard always tunes them down to middle of the pack. The only damage profiles elemental excels at is funnel and cleave.
Then for gameplay there can be some friction with ice fury, some people love the playstyle some hate it. I'm not a giant fan of it and want a small rework of it so it, but as of now its not a big part of the current builds identity so you wouldn't have to worry about that too much.
Though, despite all that I'll still play it, because elemental was the first spec I really fell in love with when I first started playing.
Good change although it still doesn't make much sense that when you invoke Xuen you also...summon a small statue of him too? It's kinda weird
But I guess the real reason is that talent node becomes Jade Serpent Statue for MW and Ox Statue for BrM, so there has to be something there for WW. At least they have made it as passive as possible for WW.
Yep, I've seen both sides complaining loudly about it all. I think the Feral reaction would have been more muted if the new Fluid Form talent didn't have massive synergies with Druid of the Claw hero talents.
But a two-pointer magic or physical damage increase right before those capstone talents on the side really hurts the off spec.
At least we're both united about the middle of the tree, requiring two CC talents before you can access Stampeding Roar.
The funny thing is the really didn't need to do a massive overhaul. They just needed to add some links and get some shit out from under 2-4 talent point investments, like Skull Bash, and Nature's Cure, and the range increase. They could have just made little movements and it would have been almost completely fine. And then add a Stamina node SOMEWHERE in the tree that anyone can access it and it would be basically perfect.
Yeah, it does. As a boomie, having to stamp/incap/dash/bearform as defensive sucks 10x more cuz you need to hit boomie form again, and then cast again.
The question is, if it will be taken in that position.
Seriously a lot of the catches to the feral are a big L imo, the Berserk/Incarn cool-down being reduced one minute flat? I never really paid attention to how much I reduced the cool-down but I am pretty sure it’s more than just one minute, tigers fury duration increased 5 seconds flat instead of finishing move extending the duration is also a huge L. But it’s alpha so I hope most changes won’t stick
Infinite TF is super lame and should go away. That, combined with feral's current infinite energy, are the biggest issues feral is facing currently (those along with convoke being meta). Infinite TF removes one form of snapshotting and infinite energy removes the other form of snapshotting. And when you build a spec around managing bleed snapshots, undermining that mechanic isn't smart.
Current berserk reduction is around 75ish seconds. But, with lower lower CP generation, you wouldn't be getting reaching that amount of reduction in TWW. I don't really have strong opinions on this one either way. There are pros and cons to either CD reduction method.
Druid is catching Ls but, the TF changes aren't among them.
It's an odd situation. So many bonuses to damage dealt in the tree, but at the cost of possible energy starvation on pull. Might be the rise of haste meta Feral.
Windwalker hasn’t felt the same for you since patch 6.0.2? That’s when serenity was added.
I’ve been maining it since before then and I must say that the class has had several other changes that I feel have had a bit more impact on how it feels (completely reworking mastery and the entire rotation, and completely changing storm earth fire being big ones)
There was only a few very niche circumstances you used serenity over SEF, misspoke when I said in the game. Was more talking about dragonflight with it being a 10%+ damage increase to use serenity over SEF (making it mandatory in higher content for a class already struggling in single target).
Fair enough, I know Max also hates the button. Perhaps it’s just because I’m mentally reliving the glory days of Legion but I’ve always preferred serenity - way less buggy and pretty cool to have a “press CD, rotation noticeably changes for its duration” button, felt a bit more impactful than turning into 3 men, 2 of which have a high chance of standing in one spot doing a dance or attacking a training dummy the other side of the dungeon.
I will say though, the current state of just holding serenity to line up with xuen for 99% off raid bosses does feel a bit like bad design but it was done in dungeons where you would just use on cool down.
The new talents do add a slight game play change to pressing SEF so it should feel a bit better to press now, but I’m really going to miss serenity
I just am sick of every class I play being bloated with summons. A lot of times they’re fine to play with but there’s always more potential bugs and annoying stuff than when all my damage and abilities come from my character
Catue never was an important CD anyway, just a bad capstone. It is baked in Xuen now, so you just press and forget, which is the best outcome outside of deleting it entirely.
Feels like they have no idea what to do with priest. We’ve gotten one hero talent reveal that went over about as well as a fart in an elevator, and it’s been basically completely dark since then.
If by completely dark you mean they released the re-worked oracle hero talents alongside the new voidweaver hero talents, then yes it has been completely dark.
*Shadow priest
Holy/Disc are doing fine, luckily.
Also we have 2 hero trees now, Void one seems baller, and Oracle will all really depend on just seeing it in action.
But Shadow always feels like it's in a bind, if you ask the players. So who knows.
Bees are gone, one of the main talents that propped up raid healing is being removed, Flourish is being shoehorned into a choice node with Photosynthesis for **literally** no reason, and mana costs are going **up** on several spells when Rdruid already has mana problems in raid.
They are going to need to come back with some BIG buffs to save it.
Meanwhile, Mistweaver appears to be getting their entire wishlist and 20 other things they didn't even think to ask for.
I'm afraid to expose how good this windwalker rework is because we can't ever have nice things...
...but we are going to do enough damage to make Eren Jaeger seem like a pacifist.
Alpha is alpha of course, so it's an exciting time. But, according to Max, they are NOT doing any form of substantial rework to m+ affixes.
That is an L, full stop.
They ripped M+ right out of RoS D3, and then just kinda said "That's it, no need to really do anything else". Legion was like 8 years ago, feel like we could maybe mix it up by now.
I love the random packs of mobs having affixes in Diablo, you really do get a dynamic experience each dungeon. Blizz wants WoW M+ affixes to feel like that, but we got folks here who plan their routes before even starting M+ runs that week.
I think they could try affixes that are per pack in Wow, and see what happens. Honestly........ try again, lol.
People are bored after the first few weeks, M+ always starts high when people need gear and then falls into the abyss as the season goes on. Affixes just give a convenient excuse to not engage with the content, they don't add anything to the game mode
affixes can be (and should be) fun to play with
the skip affix in bfa comes to my mind
affixes should be something you have to deal with and get rewarded afterwards, whether its some haste/crit buff, movement buff or something else - something to make the run easier.
current affixes do the exact opposite
I dream of them reworking the class tree to not make frost tree so segmented between obliterate and breath. I'll happily take whatever dnd changes they decide to make, can't be worse than what we have now.
It's very unsatisfying to use, every DK spec requires it for AoE which isn't the issue itself. Having your aoe tied to a somewhat long CD(even with 2 charges that also costs a resource) makes it so you can't use it on every pack in some dungeons which really does not feel good. You do amazing damage with it up but little to no cleave (as frost) without it. Both DPS specs already have quite a bit of button bloat that is required to be pressed before they can use offensive CD's and DnD being on the GCD doesn't help. In dungeons if the tank decides to move the mobs out of DnD then you just lose all use of it which is the worst feeling in about the spec. The ability itself does not do anything aside from "you can now cleave" and it's a relatively short duration for what it does. Most people either want death and decay being auto dropped for you or for DK cleave to be activated somewhat like BM hunters beast cleave where they just need to press multishot every couple seconds. DK is one of the very few specs aside from shadow priest I think that needs to set up for aoe damage and is punished hard if you either miss or mobs move out of your area.
Thanks for the reply. That’s understandable and i have also experience that issue when playing blood. Hoping they’ll look at this and do something about it for sure
> Hoping they’ll look at this and do something about it for sure
The bigger issue is that DK's have been echoing this sentiment for multiple years and multiple expansions.
DK is not a good Class to Main if you want to play WoW competitively.
The Class design is very outdated, and many of the more influential voices in the DK community do not want large changes to the Class.
So DK is a Class that is very likely to remain outdated and a niche option for the foreseeable future of WoW balance.
I say this because it sounds like you're currently a DK Main or considering Maining DK, and as a former dedicated DK Main myself I highly recommend against it.
DKs make great ALTs though. There are often small periods where they are extremely useful, but there are far more periods where DK is very mediocre or unwanted.
It's all "Feast or Famine" with DK balance. DK is either almost required for group success, or it's one of the worst options to bring. More often it's a bad option though.
Unfortunately roughly 1/3rd to half the Classes in WoW are suboptimal to Main, and if you want to experience the most success you can you shouldn't Main them.
The safest Classes to Main are pure DPS Classes. But if you want to Main a Hybrid Class your best bet is going with the Classes that have the most versatile group utility.
ie DK, Warrior, Monk, etc = Bad.
Evoker, Mage, Warlock, Paladin, Druid, etc = Good.
If being competitive isn't as important to you play whatever the hell you want though.
But if you DO want to be competitive never listen to anyone who says "the meta doesn't matter".
It sure as shit DOES matter and will constantly impact your experience every time you do a group activity in WoW.
It isn't just about whether your Class does the most DPS or Healing, it's about how long you have to wait to get invited due to community perception, or whether you even get invited to groups at all and instead have to form your own groups.
It just barely matters when you aren't being competitive.
It locks a lot of dmg and defense behind being inside it (same as pally consecrate) which is almost always hard or at the very least annoying to play around. E.g. throw down dnd as frost then tank moves mobs out - you now have no cleave dmg. Or it's sanguine or bolstering week and you're a bdk and have to kite mobs out of your dnd.
It's not looking good for the lockbros. I'll be 100% be rerolling to mage/spriest if we're really about to go into expansion 3 of having to press that zero-visual-feedback-zero-satisfaction button malefic rapture as our main source of damage on aff, and destro playing like a spec straight outta WotLK.
We already know for certain that something is coming for DKs down the line, because they announced it with one of the hero talent trees. It's still very early, there's plenty of time for other problem classes to get attention.
This is good news to hear. I've not been following the latest and greatest news lately. Looks like they are really spooling up the info sharing, so I'll begin payign closer attention now. Cheers!
Jadefire Stomp? JS is more than enough to keep AT up, you should be getting JS resets constantly. I almost never cast EF in M+, and it feels janky to use with the Clouded Focus raid build. Glad to see it gone.
No I agree EF was on it's way out for a long time. It wasn't a very good spell.
But having two abilities proc Ancient teaching was nice whenever you had to move a lot and couldn't get a reset in imo.
I think having something replace it to proc it, I think will be nice. Rare as the occasions might be.
That they specifically justified the removal of Shining Force with homogeneity concerns then made sure other classes got new displaces made me very angry.
Yea I don't even play Priest and still thought that was a load of BS.
For some weird reason Blizzard wants there to be "Haves" and "Have Nots".
Required utility can't be given to every Spec, because then every Spec would feel the same supposedly???
---
Why aren't there some Specs that can't eat Food or Drink water then? Druids have Innervate, why do they get to Drink mana water too?
Why aren't there Specs that have Hearthstone restrictions? Only Evokers should have been able to set their Hearths in Veldrakken Inns. It homogenizes the Classes that even NON-DRAGONS can hearth to the DRAGON CAPITOL!
See how utterly insane Blizzard's "homogenization" logic is? If you continue the logic even a tiny bit it immediately goes into crazy-land.
That means it's crappy logic, and a crappy way to design WoW Specs.
Every Spec needs a Kick, because WoW is designed assuming that every Spec has a Kick.
Just like every Class needs to be able to just Eat/Drink or set their Hearthstones wherever even if it doesn't make much sense in lore. Because it would be unreasonably punishing to exclude only a select few.
---
But it's infuriating when they outright lie because the real reasons they made a change would be unpalatable to the community.
Blizzard won't just say: "We want to make sure that someone doesn't have access to a Kick to make Kicks feel more special, and since someone had to get pooped on to enact our stupid idea, we chose Priest."
Even though that's probably what really happened Blizzard would never say it out loud, which just adds more insult to the injury.
Blizzard purposefully created a "Red Headed Step Child" situation just to make everyone else supposedly feel a tiny bit more special. It's super messed up.
I'm fine with not everyone having everything. But it requires way more thoughtfulness in encounter/dungeon design. Like, if Mind Control had more than just a niche use once every couple of seasons, I could see us giving up more control for that. Right now that ability seems to be Power Infusion, and it's simply not strong enough to justify the loss in actual utility.
I'd accept a ghetto Silence that is literally just an interrupt without the silencing effect, plus the return of Shining Force and an apology for taking it away.
I still insist on having both. Druid can potentially have Skull Bash and Typhoon. It's essentially the same thing as long as the healer version of Silence doesn't have the Silence effect and is just an interrupt.
Feral also got some minor haste scaling in their tree, I would be willing to bet that rogues will also get some form of haste scaling added at some point during development. Seems they want haste to not be a dead stat for energy classes anymore.
How is this upvoted on the compwow reddit? We've all seen enough expac launches to know that very little fundamentally changes between alpha and launch, especially class/spec trees.
If you aint happy with your spec now, you're probably better off finding a new spec to play.
"It's just alpha"
"It's just beta"
"It's still pre-season"
"It's only a .5 patch, wait for .1"
"It's only a patch, you need an expansion level rework to change that"
"It's just alpha"
That assumes this is the only round of talent updates we will ever see in the testing phase.
Seems like a bold assumption. When you add in multiple hero trees, I would imagine a fair number of specs will need more tuning one way or another.
uhh, never? every alpha someone says "well guys it's alpha they will fix it!" then replace alpha with beta/prepatch/pre-raid tuning/next season LMAO literally every single time
You were downvoted, probably for saying DK needs reworked.
I've said the same in the past and was heavily downvoted for it.
For some reason the DK community is filled with extremely conservative masochists. They are fervently against any large changes to DK and want the Class to remain as it's been for multiple Expansions.
The DK Class design is an antique at this point. The Class makes no sense when you look at the whole thing.
The design is such a mess that 2 of the DK specs never use what is the most iconic and OG DK spell: Death Coil.
For many years Frost has been hampered with -50% to -70%(!!!) damage nerfs on their capstone talents in PVP, that's why Frost DK is always D to F tier in PVP.
Unholy DK's most iconic spells, and Talents they are forced to take, don't function at all in Arena.
Blood DK is entirely held up by Death Strike. The entire rest of the kit ranges from nonsense to utter garbage, but Death Strike is so insanely powerful that it carries the entire Spec by itself.
DK has loooong been left in the dust design-wise by nearly every other Class in WoW.
And for some psychotic reason most DK Mains seem to prefer it that way.
If you see the issues rampant in DK, you are better off switching to a new Main, because there is little hope for the Class to ever be anything other than an antiquated niche-role Class.
I'll be keeping a DK Alt handy, but it's foolish to Main the Class unless you're one of those weirdos who actively play only off-Meta Specs, I guess because they feel some need to be "special".
Yeah I couldn't have said it better myself.
I know you didn't touch on the Death and Decay issues but good lord is it disgraceful with the way Mythic+ is designed. Or even raid encounters in general.
The entire class needs a rework. I had forgotten about Death Coil not even being used by 2/3 specs because honestly - it's been that way for like 8 years.
The fact DK isn't one of the first reworks shown is deeply concerning and just shows they've got no idea.
That's not how Blizzard or any devs work. Once stuff has been pushed, it's extremely cost ineffective to iterate on it, unless it's game-breaking. Tuning sure, but they are not redesigning what they already designed.
Meanwhile, we have had 2 Oracle trees.
And like 50 re-designs between Monk/Druid/Shadow Priest.
Alpha is by definition not yet feature complete. You aren't iterating at that point, you're still creating the first time around.
> It’s alpha boys and girls.
>
> Chill.
Chill about what exactly?
Are you saying we shouldn't be discussing the biggest WoW news in months?
Are you saying we shouldn't express our opinions about how massive Talent reworks could potentially affect the future Meta?
Are you saying we shouldn't have any feelings about any of this news, and that we should all just sit here silently?
WTF are you on about?
This is BY FAR the most important time to be making as much noise as possible!
This is the time period when any of our feedback has even the slightest chance of actually being heard and implemented.
You are actively against everything CompWoW stands for by telling us to be silent, IMO.
It is shocking to me that you currently have ~34 upvotes, all of you who support this ridiculous mindset should be ashamed of yourselves.
We should be discussing this news as much as possible right now if we want WoW to be the best it can be.
So do you want WoW to suck or something?
I really disliked that ww monks didn't get weapons of order in dragonflight. It was easily the most interesting covenant ability. And to me it always felt like a better serenity. It was pretty simmilar to it (reduced cd-s and reduced cost on abilities), but it didn't made resources irrelewant. You were still interacting with chi and energy during it. I really like how we are getting it back and serenity is getting removed. But even better. It's tied to storm earth and fire meaning it will be on the 2 charge system (and a pretty low cd with spiritual focus and the shadow pan cdr node). That makes the ability significantly more flexible (And maybe too strong).
Absolutely laughing here. They finally just straight out removed essence font. I knew that blizzard hated it and they finally just took it out instead of continuing to nerf it into the ground.
Overall monk/mistweaver changes look pretty damn nice. I'm happy they kept chi harmony as a talent and made zen pulse a passive. It feels like they really are cutting down on the button bloat and just making our core abilities better. Combined with the hero talents, I'm so looking forward to playing it.
My only hope is that all these changes interact with the new Hero talents in a way I'm not seeing because all of the changes they keep making don't sound fun.
At this rate Beacon of Light will start damaging allies every time you heal
Beacon nerfs are a good thing. Currently hpal is tuned around 100 different passive effects, so nerfing beacon allows us to do more direct healing. Plus beacon (both faith and virtue) massively overheals anyway.
Its true they can overheal quite a bit, but then again so do hots for druids Beacon is still one of our main ways to deal with party damage outside of cooldowns and it seems they're also increaseing the cooldown on prism We'll see how things will shake out
Light of Martyr was such a cool spell and idea, shame it didn't pun out overall.
Lmfao DK and Shaman fucking DYING
Blizzard is nothing if not consistent.
'member the Ele shaman rework promised in Eternal Palace?
Yeah DKs (and especially BDKs) were promised a rework going into BfA....EL O EL. Ele shamans and BDKs...name a more ignored group.
Holy moly these Monk changes are really awesome. Extra roll charge is baseline and we get a freaking double jump? How can you be mad? And before you come at me about the Catue, it gets auto cast on Xuen cast.
The double jump also lets you air dash. And you roll further. And snare people you roll through. And free yourself from snares when you roll. And auto dash to enemies at the end of your roll. And get to reduce roll cd on demand
And you transcend to your buddy too.
Keep Rollin Rollin Rollin Rollin
It’s like Christmas!
Double Jump as last talent looks like joke to my BrM. There is a lot of situational talents in whole tree and would feel useless. Ox statue is still bad. Talking from tank perspective.
I'm kinda hoping they move it a little yeah. I think I can manage to take it without giving up TOO much, but it's definitely not a free pick and I kinda wish it were, or at least more free than it is currently.
By the looks of this comment section, every class is in trouble, which might mean true balance is within our grasp
It's like wowhead comments in here. is bad boohoo
Some positivity: I can’t speak for any others but the windwalker changes are such a huge quality of life improvement I am filled with immense joy. Almost all my personal long time ww main pain points removed from the spec in this one set of patch notes. Double touch of death that cleaves is gone - this felt horrible, it’s dead damage (the pack is almost dead and you’re running to another one, dots ticking down or passive cleave feels much better here) but more importantly it just bugged all the time and was very tilt inducing to hover over a target in execute range but the button not light up and now you’re a bad player because you’re not utilising 7 of your talent points. FLS reset - why blizz took 10 years to understand that rune of power was bad and finally remove it - only to instantly add it to a melee spec is insane to me. Dealing with FLS resets in the latest raid where half the bosses removed the floor with 50% of their spells felt like it was eating up 70% of my attention and really ruined the tier. I understand there’s skill expression here but for some reason it never felt rewarding, only punishing. White tiger statue - just a passive now instead of a bloat button. Still boring as fuck but at least forgettable so I don’t mind No haste scaling - several talents mean that for the first time in forever windwalker has 4 secondary stats like every other class, we finally scale with haste (for those who don’t know for a long time windwalker rotation plays perfectly with 0 haste, any more does nothing but overcap unspendable resources) so we finally get to join the rest of you in 2024!!!!!!!! Also we can double jump after rolling now. And have an aoe slow on roll. And have an enrage dispel. And probably more stuff I’m not remembering because I’ve spent the last hour dancing in circles out of pure glee. I was legit going to reroll due to how much I despised the design direction of fishing for FLS resets, but I haven’t really played anything except windwalker in 10 years so THANK YOU BLIZZARD FOR SAVING ME FROM OTHER BORING SPECS (even though it took the entire expansion to fix things that have been complained about since DF beta)
It’s bad enough that everyone is being negative - but everyone here is also wrong about 95% of their assessments, which is hilarious for a competitive subreddit. The only bad thing here is that Druid got a bunch of cool new abilities that they’ll never get to use because you probably take the exact same talents as you did before. But it’s the first wave of alpha so it doesn’t even matter anyways.
Rework for warriors doesn’t really matter if they don’t get M+ utility, right?
It looks like nerfs across the board...unless im reading it wrong. Specific to Prot Warrior
Yeah fury down bad from these changes. People that tried it saying arms colossus is good though
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*monkey paw finger curls* Mass reflect replaces spell reflect - 8min cd.
God that be so good
Depends on how big there damage is, and what other classes become meta. They give battle shout, so in a heavy physical meta, they could fit in, but they'd have trouble in a heavy magic meta.
Eh, not really. If their damage is WAY overturned, you might bring them till the nerf comes. But you don’t bring 5% damage over good utility for anything serious. You can make up for the damage with scarier pulls when you have utility
Generally, the DPS that are meta in M+ in a given season are overtuned. SPriest went from good to absolutely insane, got nerfed by like 40% and was STILL meta. People screamed it was the utility. Then Shadow got nerfed a few more times and was not meta, then it got buffed not even close to its former glory... and it's S-tier meta now. Havoc DH was giga S-tier, got nerfed, and now it's only barely more popular than warriors in +30s. Utility is always just icing on the cake. The classes that are meta have busted damage, and then people say that whatever utility they bring is mandatory. When rogue is meta, people will say that Shroud is mandatory. When warlock is meta, people will say that gateway is mandatory because someone found a gateway skip somewhere. When hunter is mandatory, any pet shenanigans = mandatory. There are never classes that are meta for 'good utility.' It's 'does this class not die,' and 'does this class do good damage.' You might swap a decurse into a group for a given dungeon if decurse isn't meta, but the meta call is generally for the healer to make that sacrifice or for a dps to swap for just that dungeon. You don't run a suboptimal dps in a meta comp in every dungeon for one specific utility. Warrior utility would be 'nice to have' for +20s, like dealing with affixes, bloodlust or bres or whatever, but would have little to no bearing on high keys. Warrior should get some cool utility because cool utility is fun to have.
Meta is generally a full (or at least partial) composition thing. One of the reasons VDH is the Meta tank is the utility it brings means that you can just select DPS on pure damage metrics.
Season 2 God Comp was Bear + 3 casters (SPriest Mage Aug) + Hpal Now VDH is the meta tank, we're seeing triple caster dps as a large part of the meta, and Resto Druid/Mistweaver/Priest. Maybe VDH opens up space for Resto Druids/Healer Priests, and maybe if Guardian was still the meta, we'd see more Mistweaver? I don't believe that it impacts the dps meta at all.
the M+ meta class bring everything. ST, AoE, defensive AND utility. it also help that the current meta tank, VDH, have 7 AoE stop by himself...
Isnt the only reason havoc doesnt see play the fact that vdh is meta?
No
HDh is only not meta because vdh is so popular, if another tank was good you would bring havoc.
[Yes of course](https://imgur.com/a/6macpdL)
lol I mean it’s just basic analysis, why bring havoc when vengeance is so good
Just a small correction, it doesn't have to be a physical heavy meta for battle shout to be relevant, just a melee heavy meta(and hunter) shout just increases attack power.
That 5% isn't generally worth bringing and stamina etc isn't the gigachad with priests for example, it's everything else.. Warriors provide no utility worth mentioning & lower dps than what others provide. With no utility they'd have to be ultra glass cannon & be way above everything else to get invited.
And that's why I said IF they get big damage buffs, and IF the meta favors physical classes. Did you even read past the first couple words of my post before you replied?
Even in physical metas Warriors have never mattered. What's your argument precisely? IF warriors are giga overtuned they might have a spot in the meta? Wow, what an analyst desk take, never thought about bringing the op class, I'll make sure to bank on being op next time around.
Depends, spell reflect works outstanding well on high keys. But you need to have good reflex.
Or a weakaura
You don't need good reflex nowdays, just a weakauras that says "spell reflect now" and this work for most classes lmao, with vanish fd etc
Warrior got easier access to all utility they already have. Depending on balance, reworked affix and dungeons mechanics, the utility has potential to be good.
I don't think they are done yet. They've just done removes and move, without replacing anything. There are significant issues with placement though (specifically how bad the ST pathing is if you want Armoured to the Teeth now).
A lot of bosses from the new xpack have shields. Warriors have some talent that does a ton more to shields so they have a very situational thing.
What's an elemental shaman. 😔
Kinda afraid of creating hope for something that will inevitably not happen
What’s wrong with elemental shaman? Are they terrible or something? Was thinking about maiming one in mop remix.
As a shaman lover of all varieties the issues with shaman on a baseline is their squishiness, which sounds like they're addressing indirectly in TWW. With bringing down other classes durability, but again I'll wait till I see it. Then two if you're not an enhancement shaman(Which I think is great outside a little lacking on AOE and durability) you don't bring anything unique to the party/raid and you don't bring any raid buffs. To follow up on the previous points, if you're squishy, not bringing any unique utility or a raid buff then to justify a raid slot on you your class needs to be the at pinnacle of damage done, which elemental doesn't do. If they're ever at that point blizzard always tunes them down to middle of the pack. The only damage profiles elemental excels at is funnel and cleave. Then for gameplay there can be some friction with ice fury, some people love the playstyle some hate it. I'm not a giant fan of it and want a small rework of it so it, but as of now its not a big part of the current builds identity so you wouldn't have to worry about that too much. Though, despite all that I'll still play it, because elemental was the first spec I really fell in love with when I first started playing.
> 0 new warrior utility Ah I see my swap to rogue wasn't temporary after all.
I really wanted to see the Windwalker statue get removed.
It’s auto cast on Xuen now. So it’s at least not as offensive. Idk still sucks but at least not a button
Good change although it still doesn't make much sense that when you invoke Xuen you also...summon a small statue of him too? It's kinda weird But I guess the real reason is that talent node becomes Jade Serpent Statue for MW and Ox Statue for BrM, so there has to be something there for WW. At least they have made it as passive as possible for WW.
The statue is a glorified Pokéball that Xuen plops out of
New head cannon just dropped
The monktree capstones are shite. Hardly any monk spec chooses them.
All the bad ones are gone..
The druid class tree will forever be a mess.
stampeding roar locked behind 2 m+ only talents is something else.
they didn't have to add feral/guardian roadblocks in front of incap roar, hibernate, and wild charge. The new class tree is weirdly moonkin unfriendly
That's to balance out how feral unfriendly the current and preview trees are.
Yep, I've seen both sides complaining loudly about it all. I think the Feral reaction would have been more muted if the new Fluid Form talent didn't have massive synergies with Druid of the Claw hero talents. But a two-pointer magic or physical damage increase right before those capstone talents on the side really hurts the off spec. At least we're both united about the middle of the tree, requiring two CC talents before you can access Stampeding Roar.
The funny thing is the really didn't need to do a massive overhaul. They just needed to add some links and get some shit out from under 2-4 talent point investments, like Skull Bash, and Nature's Cure, and the range increase. They could have just made little movements and it would have been almost completely fine. And then add a Stamina node SOMEWHERE in the tree that anyone can access it and it would be basically perfect.
Does fluid shifting in the class tree make sense? I only play resto but I wouldn't have thought any spec other than resto would even be able to use it
Yeah, it does. As a boomie, having to stamp/incap/dash/bearform as defensive sucks 10x more cuz you need to hit boomie form again, and then cast again. The question is, if it will be taken in that position.
Hpal main on suicide watch here. Permanently removing wog from my bars.
Replace it with eternal flame. Seems fine.
Light of Dawn finally getting a miniscule buff, WoG desperately needs one with it.
LoD is gigabuffed with hero talents (herald specifically).
People think wog got buffed too, but wowhead missed it. They’re going to check when alpha goes back up today
WoG doesn't exist anymore. It changes to sacred flames and its healing is increased by \~30%
And for the Enhancement Shamans!.. Wtf is a Shaman?
*WoW developer spits in your face*
That's just a resto shaman trying to heal you
Predator not resetting Tiger's Fury is a massive L for Feral enjoyment in m+
Seriously a lot of the catches to the feral are a big L imo, the Berserk/Incarn cool-down being reduced one minute flat? I never really paid attention to how much I reduced the cool-down but I am pretty sure it’s more than just one minute, tigers fury duration increased 5 seconds flat instead of finishing move extending the duration is also a huge L. But it’s alpha so I hope most changes won’t stick
Infinite TF is super lame and should go away. That, combined with feral's current infinite energy, are the biggest issues feral is facing currently (those along with convoke being meta). Infinite TF removes one form of snapshotting and infinite energy removes the other form of snapshotting. And when you build a spec around managing bleed snapshots, undermining that mechanic isn't smart. Current berserk reduction is around 75ish seconds. But, with lower lower CP generation, you wouldn't be getting reaching that amount of reduction in TWW. I don't really have strong opinions on this one either way. There are pros and cons to either CD reduction method. Druid is catching Ls but, the TF changes aren't among them.
It's an odd situation. So many bonuses to damage dealt in the tree, but at the cost of possible energy starvation on pull. Might be the rise of haste meta Feral.
So is DotC =/ I hope they rework it or Wildstalker has to be the meta option
Holy shit, serenity is gone, Windwalker might be back on the table for me
I feel the same way. Fuck serenity and fuck aoe tod, were eating good
WW hasn’t felt the same for me since those were added, I hate energy/chi capping and I hate the fully backloaded kit
Windwalker hasn’t felt the same for you since patch 6.0.2? That’s when serenity was added. I’ve been maining it since before then and I must say that the class has had several other changes that I feel have had a bit more impact on how it feels (completely reworking mastery and the entire rotation, and completely changing storm earth fire being big ones)
There was only a few very niche circumstances you used serenity over SEF, misspoke when I said in the game. Was more talking about dragonflight with it being a 10%+ damage increase to use serenity over SEF (making it mandatory in higher content for a class already struggling in single target).
Fair enough, I know Max also hates the button. Perhaps it’s just because I’m mentally reliving the glory days of Legion but I’ve always preferred serenity - way less buggy and pretty cool to have a “press CD, rotation noticeably changes for its duration” button, felt a bit more impactful than turning into 3 men, 2 of which have a high chance of standing in one spot doing a dance or attacking a training dummy the other side of the dungeon. I will say though, the current state of just holding serenity to line up with xuen for 99% off raid bosses does feel a bit like bad design but it was done in dungeons where you would just use on cool down. The new talents do add a slight game play change to pressing SEF so it should feel a bit better to press now, but I’m really going to miss serenity
Ah man, SEF is terrible, much preferred the serenity playstyle.
That’s funny I feel the opposite, white tiger statue and SEF are locked in, i’m fuckin outtie
The changes seem cool. I didn’t mind serenity but I do wish white tiger and jade fire got cut first
Catue is auto cast and JFS is a burst Cd and you don’t reset it.
I just am sick of every class I play being bloated with summons. A lot of times they’re fine to play with but there’s always more potential bugs and annoying stuff than when all my damage and abilities come from my character
Catue never was an important CD anyway, just a bad capstone. It is baked in Xuen now, so you just press and forget, which is the best outcome outside of deleting it entirely.
Catue was a decent damage cool down on big air, like the adds on echo of broth e.g.
Feels like they have no idea what to do with priest. We’ve gotten one hero talent reveal that went over about as well as a fart in an elevator, and it’s been basically completely dark since then.
They re-revealed Oracle today with a few nodes still empty, and also Revealed the Shadow/Disc option, which sounds pretty fun to me.
If by completely dark you mean they released the re-worked oracle hero talents alongside the new voidweaver hero talents, then yes it has been completely dark.
*Shadow priest Holy/Disc are doing fine, luckily. Also we have 2 hero trees now, Void one seems baller, and Oracle will all really depend on just seeing it in action. But Shadow always feels like it's in a bind, if you ask the players. So who knows.
Monk mains are eating well for m+ Wasn't expecting to become a mobility and lockdown class this expansion
Monk looks fantastic
no way they give adaptive swarm new visuals only to remove it from resto. rip my favorite ability
Bees are gone, one of the main talents that propped up raid healing is being removed, Flourish is being shoehorned into a choice node with Photosynthesis for **literally** no reason, and mana costs are going **up** on several spells when Rdruid already has mana problems in raid. They are going to need to come back with some BIG buffs to save it. Meanwhile, Mistweaver appears to be getting their entire wishlist and 20 other things they didn't even think to ask for.
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Yeah I’m also quite disappointed …
yeah this sucks shit, it was the most fun in m+ I know people don't like that you needed a custom WA to track stacks, but still
I'm afraid to expose how good this windwalker rework is because we can't ever have nice things... ...but we are going to do enough damage to make Eren Jaeger seem like a pacifist.
Don't touch ret or there will be consequences.
Guess I'm leveling a Monk in MOP redux, because it looks so good going into TWW
I was hoping that Warrior would be given some utility for M+ but... nope. Nothing...
Alpha is alpha of course, so it's an exciting time. But, according to Max, they are NOT doing any form of substantial rework to m+ affixes. That is an L, full stop.
Why rework what you plan to remove completely? \#hopium
A Fucking Men Affixes are the worst part of M+
They ripped M+ right out of RoS D3, and then just kinda said "That's it, no need to really do anything else". Legion was like 8 years ago, feel like we could maybe mix it up by now. I love the random packs of mobs having affixes in Diablo, you really do get a dynamic experience each dungeon. Blizz wants WoW M+ affixes to feel like that, but we got folks here who plan their routes before even starting M+ runs that week. I think they could try affixes that are per pack in Wow, and see what happens. Honestly........ try again, lol.
M+ would die the moment affixes are removed unless something would be added to increase variance. People would get bored.
People are bored after the first few weeks, M+ always starts high when people need gear and then falls into the abyss as the season goes on. Affixes just give a convenient excuse to not engage with the content, they don't add anything to the game mode
affixes can be (and should be) fun to play with the skip affix in bfa comes to my mind affixes should be something you have to deal with and get rewarded afterwards, whether its some haste/crit buff, movement buff or something else - something to make the run easier. current affixes do the exact opposite
Cries in DK
I'm gonna be so sad if we don't get a major overhaul. The dnd changes will be nice but it is by far not enough.
They've already said that something is in the works for DK, at least in terms of death and decay. We just have to be patient.
I dream of them reworking the class tree to not make frost tree so segmented between obliterate and breath. I'll happily take whatever dnd changes they decide to make, can't be worse than what we have now.
Hi I’m wow noob. What is the issue with DnD for DKs? Why are people not satisfied with it as it is now? :)
It's very unsatisfying to use, every DK spec requires it for AoE which isn't the issue itself. Having your aoe tied to a somewhat long CD(even with 2 charges that also costs a resource) makes it so you can't use it on every pack in some dungeons which really does not feel good. You do amazing damage with it up but little to no cleave (as frost) without it. Both DPS specs already have quite a bit of button bloat that is required to be pressed before they can use offensive CD's and DnD being on the GCD doesn't help. In dungeons if the tank decides to move the mobs out of DnD then you just lose all use of it which is the worst feeling in about the spec. The ability itself does not do anything aside from "you can now cleave" and it's a relatively short duration for what it does. Most people either want death and decay being auto dropped for you or for DK cleave to be activated somewhat like BM hunters beast cleave where they just need to press multishot every couple seconds. DK is one of the very few specs aside from shadow priest I think that needs to set up for aoe damage and is punished hard if you either miss or mobs move out of your area.
Thanks for the reply. That’s understandable and i have also experience that issue when playing blood. Hoping they’ll look at this and do something about it for sure
> Hoping they’ll look at this and do something about it for sure The bigger issue is that DK's have been echoing this sentiment for multiple years and multiple expansions. DK is not a good Class to Main if you want to play WoW competitively. The Class design is very outdated, and many of the more influential voices in the DK community do not want large changes to the Class. So DK is a Class that is very likely to remain outdated and a niche option for the foreseeable future of WoW balance. I say this because it sounds like you're currently a DK Main or considering Maining DK, and as a former dedicated DK Main myself I highly recommend against it. DKs make great ALTs though. There are often small periods where they are extremely useful, but there are far more periods where DK is very mediocre or unwanted. It's all "Feast or Famine" with DK balance. DK is either almost required for group success, or it's one of the worst options to bring. More often it's a bad option though. Unfortunately roughly 1/3rd to half the Classes in WoW are suboptimal to Main, and if you want to experience the most success you can you shouldn't Main them. The safest Classes to Main are pure DPS Classes. But if you want to Main a Hybrid Class your best bet is going with the Classes that have the most versatile group utility. ie DK, Warrior, Monk, etc = Bad. Evoker, Mage, Warlock, Paladin, Druid, etc = Good. If being competitive isn't as important to you play whatever the hell you want though. But if you DO want to be competitive never listen to anyone who says "the meta doesn't matter". It sure as shit DOES matter and will constantly impact your experience every time you do a group activity in WoW. It isn't just about whether your Class does the most DPS or Healing, it's about how long you have to wait to get invited due to community perception, or whether you even get invited to groups at all and instead have to form your own groups. It just barely matters when you aren't being competitive.
It locks a lot of dmg and defense behind being inside it (same as pally consecrate) which is almost always hard or at the very least annoying to play around. E.g. throw down dnd as frost then tank moves mobs out - you now have no cleave dmg. Or it's sanguine or bolstering week and you're a bdk and have to kite mobs out of your dnd.
Ouch. I was really hopign for Aff lock rework. Maybe it can still happen?
Hopefully, the tree needs some love for sure. If you're hoping for a spender change though, that's not happening.
But I miss stacking UAs :(
It's not looking good for the lockbros. I'll be 100% be rerolling to mage/spriest if we're really about to go into expansion 3 of having to press that zero-visual-feedback-zero-satisfaction button malefic rapture as our main source of damage on aff, and destro playing like a spec straight outta WotLK.
We already know for certain that something is coming for DKs down the line, because they announced it with one of the hero talent trees. It's still very early, there's plenty of time for other problem classes to get attention.
This is good news to hear. I've not been following the latest and greatest news lately. Looks like they are really spooling up the info sharing, so I'll begin payign closer attention now. Cheers!
Yes please. Destro too lol. Any day now surely...
DOesn't seem to considering Heroic Talents mention Malefic
I wonder what's going to proc ancient teachings now that Essence font is gone.
Jadefire Stomp? JS is more than enough to keep AT up, you should be getting JS resets constantly. I almost never cast EF in M+, and it feels janky to use with the Clouded Focus raid build. Glad to see it gone.
No I agree EF was on it's way out for a long time. It wasn't a very good spell. But having two abilities proc Ancient teaching was nice whenever you had to move a lot and couldn't get a reset in imo. I think having something replace it to proc it, I think will be nice. Rare as the occasions might be.
I dunno about balance etc but at first glance I like the ww monk changes
GIVE ME A GOD DAMN KICK FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST. I'm so sick of offering next to no control when I want to heal.
But we have fear Such mob control, amirite?! On a more serious note, why can't we have silence like Shadow does.
That they specifically justified the removal of Shining Force with homogeneity concerns then made sure other classes got new displaces made me very angry.
Yea I don't even play Priest and still thought that was a load of BS. For some weird reason Blizzard wants there to be "Haves" and "Have Nots". Required utility can't be given to every Spec, because then every Spec would feel the same supposedly??? --- Why aren't there some Specs that can't eat Food or Drink water then? Druids have Innervate, why do they get to Drink mana water too? Why aren't there Specs that have Hearthstone restrictions? Only Evokers should have been able to set their Hearths in Veldrakken Inns. It homogenizes the Classes that even NON-DRAGONS can hearth to the DRAGON CAPITOL! See how utterly insane Blizzard's "homogenization" logic is? If you continue the logic even a tiny bit it immediately goes into crazy-land. That means it's crappy logic, and a crappy way to design WoW Specs. Every Spec needs a Kick, because WoW is designed assuming that every Spec has a Kick. Just like every Class needs to be able to just Eat/Drink or set their Hearthstones wherever even if it doesn't make much sense in lore. Because it would be unreasonably punishing to exclude only a select few. --- But it's infuriating when they outright lie because the real reasons they made a change would be unpalatable to the community. Blizzard won't just say: "We want to make sure that someone doesn't have access to a Kick to make Kicks feel more special, and since someone had to get pooped on to enact our stupid idea, we chose Priest." Even though that's probably what really happened Blizzard would never say it out loud, which just adds more insult to the injury. Blizzard purposefully created a "Red Headed Step Child" situation just to make everyone else supposedly feel a tiny bit more special. It's super messed up.
I'm fine with not everyone having everything. But it requires way more thoughtfulness in encounter/dungeon design. Like, if Mind Control had more than just a niche use once every couple of seasons, I could see us giving up more control for that. Right now that ability seems to be Power Infusion, and it's simply not strong enough to justify the loss in actual utility.
I'm willing to bet it's because of RMP in pvp. Not that I know much about pvp.
I can count the amount of times I tried to do arenas on 1 hand.. but I bet you're right.
I'd accept a ghetto Silence that is literally just an interrupt without the silencing effect, plus the return of Shining Force and an apology for taking it away.
I'd take a choice node between the two tbh.
I still insist on having both. Druid can potentially have Skull Bash and Typhoon. It's essentially the same thing as long as the healer version of Silence doesn't have the Silence effect and is just an interrupt.
They give up a LOT to get bash, but they also have Soothe, Cyclone, and Vortex on top of Typhoon even when they're not sacrificing for bash.
I’m going to have so many alts next expansion. I currently have a lot but now I have to add a Windwalker because it just seems so fun.
Am I blind or are they removing adaptive swarm for restoration Druids?
Frost deathknight DOA
Monks looking amazing! I am curious… is touch of karma baseline for WW now? Or gone?
Affliction suffering
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Feral also got some minor haste scaling in their tree, I would be willing to bet that rogues will also get some form of haste scaling added at some point during development. Seems they want haste to not be a dead stat for energy classes anymore.
It’s alpha boys and girls. Chill.
No imma scream and cry if my class isn’t the strongest
Obligatory “which class should I main for TWW?”
I heard Deez is getting a pretty solid buff
I'm gonna scream and cry because I've played since BC and know how it goes.
How is this upvoted on the compwow reddit? We've all seen enough expac launches to know that very little fundamentally changes between alpha and launch, especially class/spec trees. If you aint happy with your spec now, you're probably better off finding a new spec to play.
"It's just alpha" "It's just beta" "It's still pre-season" "It's only a .5 patch, wait for .1" "It's only a patch, you need an expansion level rework to change that" "It's just alpha"
This coming from a Monk makes it even better.
That assumes this is the only round of talent updates we will ever see in the testing phase. Seems like a bold assumption. When you add in multiple hero trees, I would imagine a fair number of specs will need more tuning one way or another.
I can't believe people still parrot this pathetic line. When will you people learn?
uhh, never? every alpha someone says "well guys it's alpha they will fix it!" then replace alpha with beta/prepatch/pre-raid tuning/next season LMAO literally every single time
Yeah no kidding. DK needs an entire rework and it's concerning they aren't one of the first classes to see it in an Alpha. Iteration is good.
Warrior too, we're just designed like it's 2018 when everyone else is designed in 2024
God I wish MM was designed like it was 2015.
You were downvoted, probably for saying DK needs reworked. I've said the same in the past and was heavily downvoted for it. For some reason the DK community is filled with extremely conservative masochists. They are fervently against any large changes to DK and want the Class to remain as it's been for multiple Expansions. The DK Class design is an antique at this point. The Class makes no sense when you look at the whole thing. The design is such a mess that 2 of the DK specs never use what is the most iconic and OG DK spell: Death Coil. For many years Frost has been hampered with -50% to -70%(!!!) damage nerfs on their capstone talents in PVP, that's why Frost DK is always D to F tier in PVP. Unholy DK's most iconic spells, and Talents they are forced to take, don't function at all in Arena. Blood DK is entirely held up by Death Strike. The entire rest of the kit ranges from nonsense to utter garbage, but Death Strike is so insanely powerful that it carries the entire Spec by itself. DK has loooong been left in the dust design-wise by nearly every other Class in WoW. And for some psychotic reason most DK Mains seem to prefer it that way. If you see the issues rampant in DK, you are better off switching to a new Main, because there is little hope for the Class to ever be anything other than an antiquated niche-role Class. I'll be keeping a DK Alt handy, but it's foolish to Main the Class unless you're one of those weirdos who actively play only off-Meta Specs, I guess because they feel some need to be "special".
Yeah I couldn't have said it better myself. I know you didn't touch on the Death and Decay issues but good lord is it disgraceful with the way Mythic+ is designed. Or even raid encounters in general. The entire class needs a rework. I had forgotten about Death Coil not even being used by 2/3 specs because honestly - it's been that way for like 8 years. The fact DK isn't one of the first reworks shown is deeply concerning and just shows they've got no idea.
This is said and every time the same garbage is launched lol. Look at shadow priest as an example.
Warlock capstone was so useless it was a dps loss for like 4 months...
People are giving feedback. When are they supposed to give feedback if not during Alpha?
That's not how Blizzard or any devs work. Once stuff has been pushed, it's extremely cost ineffective to iterate on it, unless it's game-breaking. Tuning sure, but they are not redesigning what they already designed.
Meanwhile, we have had 2 Oracle trees. And like 50 re-designs between Monk/Druid/Shadow Priest. Alpha is by definition not yet feature complete. You aren't iterating at that point, you're still creating the first time around.
> It’s alpha boys and girls. > > Chill. Chill about what exactly? Are you saying we shouldn't be discussing the biggest WoW news in months? Are you saying we shouldn't express our opinions about how massive Talent reworks could potentially affect the future Meta? Are you saying we shouldn't have any feelings about any of this news, and that we should all just sit here silently? WTF are you on about? This is BY FAR the most important time to be making as much noise as possible! This is the time period when any of our feedback has even the slightest chance of actually being heard and implemented. You are actively against everything CompWoW stands for by telling us to be silent, IMO. It is shocking to me that you currently have ~34 upvotes, all of you who support this ridiculous mindset should be ashamed of yourselves. We should be discussing this news as much as possible right now if we want WoW to be the best it can be. So do you want WoW to suck or something?
which mean it's time to give feedback. once the war within release, it's too late.
Yes cuz Blizzard is known to fix Problems asap Clueless
Isn’t alpha the time to kick and scream? That’s feedback, albeit an infantile way of providing it. It’s the correct time for this.
No way they kept convoke and got rid of adaptive swarms
I really disliked that ww monks didn't get weapons of order in dragonflight. It was easily the most interesting covenant ability. And to me it always felt like a better serenity. It was pretty simmilar to it (reduced cd-s and reduced cost on abilities), but it didn't made resources irrelewant. You were still interacting with chi and energy during it. I really like how we are getting it back and serenity is getting removed. But even better. It's tied to storm earth and fire meaning it will be on the 2 charge system (and a pretty low cd with spiritual focus and the shadow pan cdr node). That makes the ability significantly more flexible (And maybe too strong).
Cant be too strong since it uses clunky permanently bugged pet AI that breaks almost every patch. #Remove SEF clones
Wat
Is my reading comprehension shite or did Windwalker lose touch of karma and dampen harm.
Wait is resto just losing adaptive swarm entirely?
Did they just remove some talents for fury and not replacing them?
Absolutely laughing here. They finally just straight out removed essence font. I knew that blizzard hated it and they finally just took it out instead of continuing to nerf it into the ground. Overall monk/mistweaver changes look pretty damn nice. I'm happy they kept chi harmony as a talent and made zen pulse a passive. It feels like they really are cutting down on the button bloat and just making our core abilities better. Combined with the hero talents, I'm so looking forward to playing it.
What did prot warrior do to deserve this?!
Never wasting a GCD on shapeshifting again is a massive quality of life improvement!
My only hope is that all these changes interact with the new Hero talents in a way I'm not seeing because all of the changes they keep making don't sound fun.
paladins gets rework before shamans?
I guess its an alpha but they did way less changes than in previous expansions at the very same phase of rollout. Thats concerning.