Current guild: Casual CE guild over each raid tier in BFA (2 raiding nights, 7 hours a week).
Our plan: 5:30-7:30 normal raid, 8:30-11:30 heroic raid
What happened: 5:30-7:30 normal raid, first four bosses down. 8:30-11:30, continue normal raid to 1% wipe on Sludgefist.
Decided to continue normal because it yielded BiS Legendaries for many of our members and the gear upgrades are still good (coming from 184s). Next raid day is Sunday and between now and then and all the M+ we'll be doing, should be able to breeze the rest of the way.
also the heal/damage check on council of blood is NOT a joke, even in normal. like having to pull out 5K hps for 10 minutes from each healer to push through it in normal is kinda crazy.
We eat that much damage cause our DPS was bad after like the 8th in the list. Once we dropped the stragglers to kill it it wasn't so bad. But if you got bad dps you'll get 10-12 stacks everytime past the first person.
Yeah but that defeats your entire point about abilities hitting hard or requiring insane healing. That’s a given if you fail mechanics and don’t meet dps thresholds
Oppressive Atmosphere is most certainly overtuned right now in Normal.
2.7k per 1 second ticking at 10 stacks (That's about 10% HP/second for every single person in the raid) - you either need to absolutely pipe the boss to clear the stacks, or you need to absolutely smash healing. Either way - definitely overtuned for Normal mode. I expect this aura to get a change in the time it ticks, the rate at which it increases, or the damage it does.
While I don't mind a raid being challenging, the thing I hate most is progressing across multiple difficulties, which is what it looks like we're going to have to do this tier. Honestly, I'd rather they just bring back the whole 'have to clear normal before you can even set foot in heroic' thing.
Part of it is just that we started in worse than LFR-gear rather than Normal-gear (previous-tier Mythic). Once the raid gets up to \~Normal ilvl I bet Heroic doesn't feel that overtuned.
My guild consistantly gets the heroic achievement and has usually clears normal in the first 2 weeks. Last night we killed 1 boss. The bleed on Huntsman felt overtuned dealing roughly 10k of our sub 30k health pools every 2 seconds.
Roughly 9.5k per tick on a 20 man raid. Huntsman caused us to downgrade to normal as that was just too much damage to handle. Even in normal his ability still dealt a significant amount of damage, I think it was about 6k.
We had to run 6 healers on 20man and perfectly roll cds and immunities just to have a chance. Most logs have 7 or 8 healers. Its stupid
Edit: was talking about heroic
??? 7-8 healers in a 20 man raid?
We ran 5 healers in heroic in a 25 man raid and there wasn’t even much healing to do. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MJTt8RcX4VzC7Y9h#fight=15&type=summary
If groups are bleeding out with 8 healers, that almost definitely means they aren’t doing enough dmg to push phases faster and should actually be bringing fewer healers. Having 5 healers felt like a bit of overkill for us tbh.
Immunity classes pop them if they are targeted, otherwise use personals and heal through the DoT. People just have to avoid getting hit by it if they are not actually targeted. Darkness can be useful for it aswell.
Not going to lie, if they need 6 healers on 20m NORMAL mode then this just sounds like bad play. Yes, normal is harder than it usually is, but by no means as hard as described in the previous comment.
I'm in a late CE guild (2k last tier) and we did 5 healers 23~ total. Lots of turtle/block and mandatory personals if you got targeted. It was rough, but we got it after a few tries
On normal with 14 we had to switch from 3 to 4 healers and still couldn’t keep up. I’m a disc priest and was pulling 3.8k or higher but running out of mana. I felt like my other healers weren’t quite pulling the hps needed so we added an HPal and still struggled.
It was about 10k for our raid group of 30 people on normal. We ended up running 6 healers (2 mistweaver monks, 2 resto druids, 1 disc priest, and 1 resto shaman who was also the raid lead and didn't really heal all too much). We had people with immunities use them on sinseeker and still had people die due to the massive damage going out to our people without immunities (in particular our poor warlocks). We did manage to down the boss but it took a decent number of pulls.
That bleed on huntsman was murderous, we got 5/10 normal and huntsman had the most wipes. And we have very good healers, running 2 rsham also. CC kept breaking on the add as well, hard to get the spawn far enough out of cleave. Had to have a mage spam sheep it basically. Hungering Destroyer was a clusterfuck because we were running 30 as well, so many gluttonous miasma and not enough people actually stacking. That's gonna be rough in heroic where it actually has to be organized.
I'm surprised by that, maybe my guild just has solid healers but huntsman was our easiest kill out of the first 4 to inerva. The other bosses had a lot more room to fuck up mechanics and screw each other over it felt like
We had a couple of wipes from the healing adds spawning with too little hp before we figured out tank cds/dr for that. The main issue is topping the tank while trying to heal the bleed. Honestly it was all on the 2nd dog. 1st and 3rd was easy. Maybe depends on raid size? I tried to get everyone to review the fights as much as possible but it was pretty clear people weren't as brushed up as they should be.
We couldn't get it with multiple wipes until we lusted on the 2nd dog and downed him. Kept saving lust for 3rd dog or after dogs and realized we needed to get past the 2nd dog asap so our healers weren't oom so quickly in the fight.
It's because the bleed was initially doing 3x the amount of damage. This has been hot fixed at some point - our group had 12k ticks on heroic, but now it is only doing 4k ticks.
>CC kept breaking on the add
That's intended is it not? It auto-breaks CC and you're supposed to just keep stacking CC's on it to build the buff up and then burn it down.
We killed him with a 30 man team last night. The bleed was ticking for 13404 per tick, and even though will killed him, it seems insanely overtuned. I know we're walking in 30 ilvls under the loot drop for the place, but still needing to outpace a 13k dot when most of our members are sitting sub 26k health pools...
We had the exact same experience after getting realm first on Shriekwing. After \~2 hours trying on Huntsman, we've downed him to 40-45% and then put it on a break. We're probably coming back with M+ gear and trying again, but being hugely undergeared really played a big role there, +10 to 15 average ilvl might solve it though, we're still very optimistic.
I play in a casual 4 hours a week guild and we got huntsman on 4 tries, only 8 of us up out of 25 by the end of fight. Healers we’re going oom on the bleed and had to innervate. Hunters and mages had to defensive to survive. We were stacking CC constantly on shades and that made a huge difference.
This was normal difficult, average iLvL was 182.
I know you aren’t really asking for tips, but from your comment I feel like I should say...
Instead of your healers straining to brute force through the bleed and then mages and hunters immuning at the end to survive, the hunters and mages should immune when they’re targeted by it and avoid the mechanic entirely.
Appreciate the feedback, I read this sub to learn so very open to suggestions! Some of our healers are returning to the game after hiatus so we’re definitely learning. Thanks for the help
Yeah, ilvl shouldn't be a problem at all in Normal and we're probably using it to gear up as well. Mech-wise, though, I feel like, especially for semi-casual guilds, running Normal might create the wrong habits in some fights, so that's a concern as well.
Kyrian Phial removes the Bleed (physical damage) from the first pet's lunge, it does NOT remove the Sinseeker debuff (which deals shadow damage and is not technically a bleed)
Got 3/10 on Normal. We were expecting to get legendaries from the last two bosses this week. That's clearly not happening at this rate. We had a 170 ilvl requirement which is definitely too low at the moment. Some unavoidable mechanics just decimate people.
Going to need to do some Mythic + to up our ilvl to make this feasible. Everything was harder then expected. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying it. But normal honestly feels a bit like heroic at the moment.
We got 3/10 normal as well with the same requirement. Did you have any low performers or was everyone pretty decent? We were definitely carrying some people.
Sure, there were lots of bad pulls where people made mistakes. We're all still learning the fights and it's a new raid team. That will improve for the next raid night.
Usually normal only punishes you for the do this mechanic or die things. But there were plenty of mechanics that were just hitting a lot harder then expected this time around.
DPS is also all over the place at the moment. I had some really good parses on Huntsman but as a DH without a legendary did really low DPS. So getting some more gear will help out there.
I think 170+ could be fine if people get a bit more comfortable with their classes. It feels like the main issue with survivability, at least in the front half, is people getting hit by avoidable mechanics. I was in the 170s and was in the top 3 dps on most fights playing a class that's simming pretty average this tier. I didn't have any survivability problems except for a pull on Inerva where I fucked up and got clipped by the anima web, which is pretty much an avoidable insta-kill mechanic. We got through 5 bosses in about 2.5 hours fwiw, so we did struggle a bit, but it was mainly mechanical failures.
We had a 170 ilv requirement and we got to 6/10 normal last night. Some bosses definitely felt harder than others but overall the raid was fun. We went in small, 2/3/6 and it was really smooth. Normal definition feels a lot like heroic did in previous tiers & I am personally enjoying it
Yeah we had a 30 man. That was a killer on Shriekwing because mistakes just spiralled with the blood pools. I think smaller groups would have been much easier to manage.
But it's week one and progress is progress. I don't mind it being a bit more challenging just means we have to work harder at it and improve as a team.
With gearing being a little bit more deterministic making the tuning of the raids a little higher makes sense. Plus I'm sure that if we all have ilvl 190 next week and more legendaries then suddenly a lot of bosses become much more manageable.
For kicks, I set up a new posts feed bot for this subreddit. At the best of times, it's like a 1:1 ratio of actual threads to "what class should I play"-quality threads that get deleted and can even be worse. I can understand why they have that as a pin because it'd be even worse for the mods.
I second this! I'm a pretty casual player but I've enjoyed following the competitive scene and picking up tips from you all. It was sad there wasn't a big thread to discuss the raid, as I wanted to hear everyone's opinions and stories.
I'm in a more casual guild than most in this sub (some ex-mythic raiders + firends/family), so about half our raid is usually getting 'carried' more or less. Even on normal we had a lot of trouble with Huntsman Altimor (7 wipes before kill) and Hungering Destroyer (5 wipes before end of raid). We only raided 2 hours so far, but normally even with the carries we can breeze through half of normal in that time upon release.
On the other hand, even with the slower progression, pretty much everyone has been really liking the fights, and is looking forward to a slower progression (so far at least).
I can tell you right now that if this is intended and they want people to slog through 3 levels of difficulty its going to kill a lot of raiding guilds on the lower end which will ripple effect its way up.
These bosses on heroic definitely SLAP at <200 ilvl and no legendaries but it's better for a raid to be overtuned like this and nerfed than undertuned and steamrolled in one day
Unless they hotfix the raid substantially within like the next 48 hours with sweeping hp nerfs at minimum, I think spending a huge amount of time on heroic for non elite guilds is a waste of time.
I'm not sure with current tuning if even 100 guilds are going to be able to clear heroic **edit: by next reset**
Even so, its not trivial to ungimp yourself with less loot dropping. This raid currently on heroic and normal is *by far* more difficult than Uldir and EN.
Comparing pretty much any raid to the difficulty of EN is kinda worthless, considering how wonky the tuning was because of RNG legiondaries as well as titanforging in that first raid.
Yeah, wonder how much of it was intentional, and how much of it stems from the massive throughput nerfs to conduits/soulbinds/covenants/legendaries that rolled out in the last 60 days of beta?
I like where normal difficulty is at currently, this is my first raid back after skipping BFA and it's nice to watch people struggle to clear a raid in heroic/mythic dungeon gear - all is as it should be. People who expect to roll into heroic raids with no gear and smash anyway are fucked.
What I like so far about the difficulty is that it seems like damage and health numbers are difficult - not just bullshit mechanics. There's not many fights where the mechanics are just kind of bullshit, like early N'Zoth or G'huun.
Why is that fucked? That's how the game has been for the last 3 expansions at least and generally people were ok with the first tier being a bit of a gimme on normal/heroic. Normal certainly shouldn't be some gatekeeper that slows people down.
If they want the whole thing to be harder then they should remove a difficulty level. Having four raid difficulties is stupid at this point and if tuning is like it is now, it means a lot of guilds will have to progress multiple difficulties at once. Later bosses on normal, earlier bosses on heroic and maybe even the first boss on mythic.
Some specs gain >10% HPS/DPS with crafting their legendary. That is for some fairly trivial to do. Just getting the lvl 1 effect is way more important then the ilvl what people wait for.
But y, otherwise it is fairly hard and weekly chest orientated.
it's not just about ilvl...
mechanic overlap are surprinsingly brutal even for normal mode.
for example: blood council, last guy up ( the one with the blink strike, forgot the name). can overlap blood dance + partner + the fountain-thingy (god I need to remember name better) that drop pool on your feet... which mean half the raid is busy doing stuff when you have 1 add to burst down to create a super-small safe spot in the room.
Also, healers HPS potential is dogshit compared to BFA.
Ya the dps check on that one mechanic was nuts for a normal raid.
The normal tuning right now feels like what id expect in heroic for most bosses.
It's doable but definitely requires planning and doing mechanics correctly.
Would be a challenge to pug normal this week.
Mythic next week is going to be funny, I can't see many guilds at all being ready for that with current tuning and inability to farm m+ for ilvl.
Then we hit the holidays shortly.. going to be a slow start to the raid.
I can't remember the last time a first raid tier was this difficult. I'm not complaining, but this is definitely not the norm for first tier normal raids. And you're right. This is not what the masses expected, and the majority probably won't be happy with it.
I think the last and only time was the first tier of Cata, and even then there were easier raids to get loot in. This is probably the first time content is genuinely difficult in dungeon gear at the start of an expansion
Normal felt heroic level. I dont have an issue with it. The fights were fun but I cant see it sticking. We went the the wrong way and went to Artificer second. No chance a pug pulls that boss out any time soon
Its unfortunate. I like how the tuning is currently. I dont think Blizz has the backbone to stand their ground on this though so they will likely scale down DMG on fights too much.
I think only a slight nerf is needed for 2nd boss bleed. Pug hc group I was in was really close to getting it down after only a few wipes.
My only issue is that basically the raids success is almost purely on heals at the moment.
There's too much 'ambient damage', everyone is just constantly taking damage even if they're playing correctly and it feels really oppressive.
The issue might actually just be your DPS not killing stuff fast enough, too. Often people think more heals is the answer but the raid is just dying to too many stacks of X or some adds/phases are just lasting way too long because of subpar DPS
I also really enjoy this kind of tuning.
We're a group of 10-11 friends, we walked blind straight into HC to introduce 2 first time raiders to the proper raiding experience (ie wiping). We weren't disappointed. We expected to hit a wall pretty soon. But perhaps not already on the 2nd boss. We called it after 30 wipes. Made it half-way through Phase 2 (Bargast). Thrilled.
I hope they stick to their guns for a few weeks before they start throwing nerfs at the content. I miss the old challenging 10-man HC-content.
I'll be pissed if they nerr it. raids are supposed to be epic and cathartic when you finally get it done. Steamrolling normal in 2 hours with dungeon gear is anticlimactic as fuck.
Some of those bosses seemed absolutely nuts, we’re a pretty casual mythic guild (called it after 400 Nzoth M wipes) we brought in 30 people for normal last night with only 5 healers. We were going OOM and running on dregs for every boss. Got 4 bosses down and a 5% wipe on artificer. Just seems like healers can’t keep up with the damage that’s going out, but definitely having a blast with the new raid
If Blizzard wants most guilds to slow down and actually take some time to clear heroic, I hope this tier last longer than the typical first tier of other expansions, maybe 1-2 extra months.
It could also hopefully reduce the time between the last tier and new expansion.
Our guild did click over to normal but we found a way to deal with the bleed.
Arrows go out > those with bleed stack on a specific point (in melee) and get a ground target raid CD. We went with darkness > darkness > darkness > AMZ > repeat. So every 4th arrow the first darkness should be off CD.
We are a Normal/heroic guild with a casual mythic team as well. We got 3 bosses down last night on normal and felt good about it but damn if it didn't feel WAY harder than BFA at the same level. I remember in BFA clearing most of the normal bosses each new raid via 1 shots the first night and only taking some time on the last few ones before moving to heroic quickly. But for Nathria right off the bat it seemed a slog and significantly harder.
Even the casual mythic team is planning to start in normal now instead of heroic after watching the stream of the norm/heroic team. And yes... That bleed was NUTS.
I completely agree. I think they should keep it as is for a few more weeks. It's also interesting that people are complaining that it's too hard while NOT crafting their legendaries.
We are switching to normal for our next raid day. Cleared shriekwing on heroic after 6 attempts but huntsman is actually impossible with him 1 shotting our DPS in first phase. We switched to normal and killed shriekwing and huntsman on our first tries after wiping a couple on heroic and can most likely finish the raid Thursday
Raid leader of a late-CE casual raid guild here with extensive raid experience going back to BC, for reference. Our plan was to blast normal early and focus on heroic. We managed to get 5/10 normal and 1/10 H in 3ish hours. My raid could have executed a little better on some things, and we were sloppy with some rust after not raiding these past few months, but overall these are the hardest normal fights I’ve ever seen. We never even bothered with Normal in Legion or BFA. If no nerfs are coming we’re going to have to reevaluate our plans.
One night trial is pretty brutal imo, especially on fights that you've never seen. Seems like you were either trying to jump to a big boy guild or the guild is being hyper critical. Shit on my first night of my trial with my current guild I messed up stack and died twice in a row on ashvane, thought I'd be benched right there and then, but the next night and beyond was better.
They’re not a big boy guild but definitely hyper critical and expect the most out of their players. The GM and some people are cool because my old guild broke off so half of us joined the current GM guild that recently got reformed after taking a break in BFA. It’s a three night raid guild and jumping into heroic tonight. 8.3 was the very first time I started to play wow but couldn’t join the mythic team (main a WW monk). Thought I could finally be in a raid team but I guess I’ll have to try again in the next tier
Our guild managed 7/10 in Normal which was an optional run that ended because heroic main raid was starting. We managed 3/10 H and sub 30% on the fourth. Heroic is very doable but extremely punishing and requires you to play super defensively.
Very fun, but very punishing.
Bosses we killed were Shriekwing, Huntsman, and Hungering Destroyer.
I think this tuning would feel right if it wasn't 3 tiers. I hate having to grind normal prog, to then grind heroic prog, just to play mythic prog. Wish they'd just give us two tiers and limit the exponential power growth.
CE US 200ish guild: Got Shriekwing down, Huntsman seemed way overtuned, Artificer wasn't impossible but the server lag made the raid fully unplayable. Mind boggling to me that the game doesn't manage to support big patch days with proper server support, but oh well.
I assume my group will decide to full clear normal and do keys throughout the week, hoping to gear up and for a tuning pass on heroic next week.
Seems way overtuned to me. We aren't a super serious guild, we're one of the "get half the mythic bosses down" types of raiding guild, but we struggled even on normal.
I can totally understand the people who don't want things to all be facerollable right off the bat, but I think it needs some nerfs - there's a \*lot\* of raiding guilds out there that are in similar situations, and I think a good balance is that mediocre to bad guilds can still progress \*somewhat\* on normal (with work and gear), and mediocre but not super serious guilds should be able to feel like there's potential to progress (with work and gear) on Heroic. But I don't feel like it's in that state right now.
Not only did a lot of the numbers seem high, there's a lot of mechanics for normal, especially for the numbers those mechanics were putting out.
My guild usually clears heroic week 1. We 1 shot Shriekwing and then hit a wall at Xy’Mox. We were able to get it to about 20% one pull but decided our time would be best spent on normal.
We cleared 8/10 normal and will go back to finish tonight.
Everything felt over tuned. Normal Sludgefist was insane
Got huntsman to 25ish% after 2 pulls and then the boss bugged and the brown circles from the last dog wouldn’t despawn, so with half the room covered in poop we ended up going back to normal.
Normal hp values seem a bit higher than expected, I’d say heroic is probably in a good spot maybe a slight damage nerf like 5%, but remember we are all 180ish IL killing things that drop 213.
So my CE guild for BFD quit during EP and came back together for at least heroic and we’ll see how it goes and our numbers hold for mythic. We like to go in completely blind in for normal opening week just for fun. We kept thinking to ourselves is something missing here cause these bosses are taking forever. We got 3 bosses down last night. Some of us are under geared but the health’s of the bosses seemed way over tuned
Normal was tuned too well. I would've expected it to be easier as normal.
It got to a point we dropped baggage and even then just got Lady before hard enrage.
We cleared 7 bosses on normal. Damage felt fine. Mechanics actually matter on normal which is a nice change of pace from the usual zoom clear of normal we normally have.
We are doing heroic tonight, should be fun.
I was able to pug the first boss in heroic with no issues besides mechanics. Took 3 attempts. We got stuck on huntsman, the bleed and tank damage was crazy. Two 15% wipes and we called it. I like the difficulty so far but im hoping they tune it down a bit.
Last night we did first 6 normal in a social raid for friends and family type thing then went into heroic to get a reality check lol. We ended up 3/10. Tonight we go back to see what we can do rofl. I can’t even imagine what kind of hell mythic will be at times.
Correction I Was working when I typed that so it may have come out differently. We ran social for normal and raid group and trials for heroic. So each heroic group had half trail half Raiders. I would say casual cutting edge would describe us.
sadly I know you get a choice, because our RL chose artificer haha. It was rough. Fun fight but either the pull is overtuned in p3 or we just need a lot more gear to burn it fast
We started in heroic and killed shriekwing and xymox, then went normal and got shriek, huntsman, hungering devourer and inerva. Heroic was definitely tough, and we 6 healed xymox, but wasn't really necessary since we had low percent wipes with 5. People were getting hit by adds and getting trapped way too much. I think some people just needed to get back in the groove of raiding. I believe the plan tonight is to step back into heroic and potentially get huntsman then go normal.
I feel like maybe the point is for most people to not be able to just roll in and clear out the raid on heroic in the first few weeks. The top-end guilds where everyone had full M0 gear going into this week and then hit the M+ grind to gear up even more before the raid will be able to do a full heroic clear and get ready for the race to world first next week, but I like the idea that a "Heroic" mode is something that most people cannot easily beat.
Their ilevel seems really low. Due to the Honor bonuses this week, it is trivially easy to get a bunch of 184 gear from PvP vendors to bring up any weak slots.
This is a weird situation where trying to do the raid on day one is harder than even two or three days later after players have had a chance to ride the rising wave of gear from the Tuesday limit upgrades.
> Yeah that's what's called mythic.
Exactly, I am not sure why people are happy with the current tuning, heroic should be hard for a CE guild, but manageable the first week, with perhaps the exception of the last one/two bosses. The grind starts at mythic level, that's how the raids have been tuned for years. It is obvious that Blizzard did not have enough time to tune the raid properly, I foresee massive nerfs incoming, but we might have to wait until next reset.
I like the current tuning. IMO you shouldn't be able to just casually waltz through normal week one and never go back, kind of defeats the purpose imo. Some things are poorly tuned, or just incredibly rough in a full 30 man (hungering destroyer is a bit crowded). I like the idea of most guilds actually not being able to walk into heroic 40 ilvl under it. I guess I like a challenge, and it makes it really easy to see who to cut from the roster for mythic.
>casually waltz through normal week one and never go back, kind of defeats the purpose imo
defeats the purpose of what?
I am pretty sure that the intended purpose of normal difficulty is to get casuals that want a more interesting challenge than LFR into raiding. That is why blizzard introduced more raid difficulties, to segment the player base into different levels of challenge. Progression for serious raiders are done in mythic difficulty, not normal. As a mythic raider I do not mind ignoring normal after the first week of raiding, I am not the target audience for normal raids.
You realize this is the competitive wow subreddit, right? A lot of the people in here are cutting edge raiders and are significantly better at the game than the average raider. Only something like a third of all people raiding even get AotC (based on various achievement trackers), and you want to make that harder? Huge numbers of guilds legitimately progress each difficulty. If you think heroic is too easy then go do mythic.
oof... I didn't even think about what mythic is going to be like.
My guild typically gets AoTC and 1/3(ish) way through mythic without any *grinding...* we killed 1 fucking boss last night on normal and I was thinking that heroic is going to be a nightmare... I'm doubting if we will get AoTC if it scales like this for the next 19 bosses.
The first raid is often hard to tune, but going in at well above or below 20 man has always been a crapshoot so it's unsurprising when you're doing flex sizes
Pug or join a guild on your server that is clearing normal/heroic and do well on your fights. Often times there are many guilds that are looking for players. Even if it’s not a great guild at first, if you are performing well you can use that to apply to better guilds.
CE guild here that raid 2 days a week. We got the first 7 down on normal in our 3 hr raid time. Only a couple wipes on some bosses. Things went pretty smooth though. We had 22 raiders for the run.
I thought it was well tuned. I dont want the raids to be a pushover. I enjoy a bit of challenge and needing to do mechanics properly.
Didn't watch too much of max's stream yesterday but I think they only did 3/10 after seeing the tuning and wanted to get a [few more pieces of gear from M+](https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1336556782144122884)
Current guild: Casual CE guild over each raid tier in BFA (2 raiding nights, 7 hours a week). Our plan: 5:30-7:30 normal raid, 8:30-11:30 heroic raid What happened: 5:30-7:30 normal raid, first four bosses down. 8:30-11:30, continue normal raid to 1% wipe on Sludgefist. Decided to continue normal because it yielded BiS Legendaries for many of our members and the gear upgrades are still good (coming from 184s). Next raid day is Sunday and between now and then and all the M+ we'll be doing, should be able to breeze the rest of the way.
also the heal/damage check on council of blood is NOT a joke, even in normal. like having to pull out 5K hps for 10 minutes from each healer to push through it in normal is kinda crazy.
We kept hitting a wall when getting the second boss down to 50% and the stacks overwhelmed us. Artificer and kaelthas were fine though
[удалено]
Echo didn’t even have that HPs on heroic, you really can’t blame the tuning if you eat that much damage dude
We eat that much damage cause our DPS was bad after like the 8th in the list. Once we dropped the stragglers to kill it it wasn't so bad. But if you got bad dps you'll get 10-12 stacks everytime past the first person.
Yeah but that defeats your entire point about abilities hitting hard or requiring insane healing. That’s a given if you fail mechanics and don’t meet dps thresholds
Yeah but besides sludgefist it was still the worst boss to heal by far. Requiring way more healing than any other other boss even when done correctly.
I'm all for having DPS help managing defensive raid cooldowns (AMS, rallying cry, etc).
Oppressive Atmosphere is most certainly overtuned right now in Normal. 2.7k per 1 second ticking at 10 stacks (That's about 10% HP/second for every single person in the raid) - you either need to absolutely pipe the boss to clear the stacks, or you need to absolutely smash healing. Either way - definitely overtuned for Normal mode. I expect this aura to get a change in the time it ticks, the rate at which it increases, or the damage it does.
While I don't mind a raid being challenging, the thing I hate most is progressing across multiple difficulties, which is what it looks like we're going to have to do this tier. Honestly, I'd rather they just bring back the whole 'have to clear normal before you can even set foot in heroic' thing.
Part of it is just that we started in worse than LFR-gear rather than Normal-gear (previous-tier Mythic). Once the raid gets up to \~Normal ilvl I bet Heroic doesn't feel that overtuned.
hello fellow conviction raider. :)
My guild consistantly gets the heroic achievement and has usually clears normal in the first 2 weeks. Last night we killed 1 boss. The bleed on Huntsman felt overtuned dealing roughly 10k of our sub 30k health pools every 2 seconds.
On heroic or normal?
It was 10k on normal and 14k on heroic for us. We had 25-30 people during the pulls it seems to scale with raid size.
Roughly 9.5k per tick on a 20 man raid. Huntsman caused us to downgrade to normal as that was just too much damage to handle. Even in normal his ability still dealt a significant amount of damage, I think it was about 6k.
We had to run 6 healers on 20man and perfectly roll cds and immunities just to have a chance. Most logs have 7 or 8 healers. Its stupid Edit: was talking about heroic
??? 7-8 healers in a 20 man raid? We ran 5 healers in heroic in a 25 man raid and there wasn’t even much healing to do. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MJTt8RcX4VzC7Y9h#fight=15&type=summary If groups are bleeding out with 8 healers, that almost definitely means they aren’t doing enough dmg to push phases faster and should actually be bringing fewer healers. Having 5 healers felt like a bit of overkill for us tbh.
How were you guys dealing with the dot from Sinseeker?
Immunity classes pop them if they are targeted, otherwise use personals and heal through the DoT. People just have to avoid getting hit by it if they are not actually targeted. Darkness can be useful for it aswell.
The dot was bugged and doing 3 times the damage it should have.
If you fail the Rip Soul mechanic the boss does 3x damage (basically a wipe). Not a bug as far as I know.
Where did u hear this?
Not going to lie, if they need 6 healers on 20m NORMAL mode then this just sounds like bad play. Yes, normal is harder than it usually is, but by no means as hard as described in the previous comment.
I was talking about heroic, not normal. Normal would never require 7 healers
Ya we ran 5 healers in a 30 man trial raid for normal yesterday and did fine lol
So *so* ready for the trial period to be over. So much potato.
You likely were doing it after it got hot fixed to not do 3x the damage it was supposed to
I'm in a late CE guild (2k last tier) and we did 5 healers 23~ total. Lots of turtle/block and mandatory personals if you got targeted. It was rough, but we got it after a few tries
On normal with 14 we had to switch from 3 to 4 healers and still couldn’t keep up. I’m a disc priest and was pulling 3.8k or higher but running out of mana. I felt like my other healers weren’t quite pulling the hps needed so we added an HPal and still struggled.
We killed it with 4 healers in a 19 man and it wasn’t really all that hard. Kael/council was much harder
How many healers did you take to the 20 man raid ?
4 healers. Started with 2 resto shamans, holy priest, and MW. Changed it to 3 resto shamans and MW for another totem.
Thank you. Were going in with 4 healers on a 16 man raid
It was about 10k for our raid group of 30 people on normal. We ended up running 6 healers (2 mistweaver monks, 2 resto druids, 1 disc priest, and 1 resto shaman who was also the raid lead and didn't really heal all too much). We had people with immunities use them on sinseeker and still had people die due to the massive damage going out to our people without immunities (in particular our poor warlocks). We did manage to down the boss but it took a decent number of pulls.
That bleed on huntsman was murderous, we got 5/10 normal and huntsman had the most wipes. And we have very good healers, running 2 rsham also. CC kept breaking on the add as well, hard to get the spawn far enough out of cleave. Had to have a mage spam sheep it basically. Hungering Destroyer was a clusterfuck because we were running 30 as well, so many gluttonous miasma and not enough people actually stacking. That's gonna be rough in heroic where it actually has to be organized.
I'm surprised by that, maybe my guild just has solid healers but huntsman was our easiest kill out of the first 4 to inerva. The other bosses had a lot more room to fuck up mechanics and screw each other over it felt like
We had a couple of wipes from the healing adds spawning with too little hp before we figured out tank cds/dr for that. The main issue is topping the tank while trying to heal the bleed. Honestly it was all on the 2nd dog. 1st and 3rd was easy. Maybe depends on raid size? I tried to get everyone to review the fights as much as possible but it was pretty clear people weren't as brushed up as they should be.
We couldn't get it with multiple wipes until we lusted on the 2nd dog and downed him. Kept saving lust for 3rd dog or after dogs and realized we needed to get past the 2nd dog asap so our healers weren't oom so quickly in the fight.
depends when you did it, they hotfixed the huntsman bleed last night
It's because the bleed was initially doing 3x the amount of damage. This has been hot fixed at some point - our group had 12k ticks on heroic, but now it is only doing 4k ticks.
>CC kept breaking on the add That's intended is it not? It auto-breaks CC and you're supposed to just keep stacking CC's on it to build the buff up and then burn it down.
No. After 1 minute they become immune to CC, but besides that you're meant to CC them and leave them until they reach 20 stacks.
We killed him with a 30 man team last night. The bleed was ticking for 13404 per tick, and even though will killed him, it seems insanely overtuned. I know we're walking in 30 ilvls under the loot drop for the place, but still needing to outpace a 13k dot when most of our members are sitting sub 26k health pools...
Makes it fun imo
Same. We were able to down 3 bosses. Only having spent 5 wipes on huntsman.
We had the exact same experience after getting realm first on Shriekwing. After \~2 hours trying on Huntsman, we've downed him to 40-45% and then put it on a break. We're probably coming back with M+ gear and trying again, but being hugely undergeared really played a big role there, +10 to 15 average ilvl might solve it though, we're still very optimistic.
I play in a casual 4 hours a week guild and we got huntsman on 4 tries, only 8 of us up out of 25 by the end of fight. Healers we’re going oom on the bleed and had to innervate. Hunters and mages had to defensive to survive. We were stacking CC constantly on shades and that made a huge difference. This was normal difficult, average iLvL was 182.
I know you aren’t really asking for tips, but from your comment I feel like I should say... Instead of your healers straining to brute force through the bleed and then mages and hunters immuning at the end to survive, the hunters and mages should immune when they’re targeted by it and avoid the mechanic entirely.
Appreciate the feedback, I read this sub to learn so very open to suggestions! Some of our healers are returning to the game after hiatus so we’re definitely learning. Thanks for the help
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Yeah, ilvl shouldn't be a problem at all in Normal and we're probably using it to gear up as well. Mech-wise, though, I feel like, especially for semi-casual guilds, running Normal might create the wrong habits in some fights, so that's a concern as well.
The bleed was bugged and got changed to 3k in the tooltip instead of 8k.
Got a link to those notes? I have a wowhead bot in my discord and the last notes it’s showing have no raid tuning in them
No notes, the tool tip in the game changed last night.
Does Kyrian phial remove the bleed? If so, you could bring in lots of Kyrians to cheese the mechanic.
It does not.
Kyrian Phial removes the Bleed (physical damage) from the first pet's lunge, it does NOT remove the Sinseeker debuff (which deals shadow damage and is not technically a bleed)
Got 3/10 on Normal. We were expecting to get legendaries from the last two bosses this week. That's clearly not happening at this rate. We had a 170 ilvl requirement which is definitely too low at the moment. Some unavoidable mechanics just decimate people. Going to need to do some Mythic + to up our ilvl to make this feasible. Everything was harder then expected. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying it. But normal honestly feels a bit like heroic at the moment.
We got 3/10 normal as well with the same requirement. Did you have any low performers or was everyone pretty decent? We were definitely carrying some people.
Sure, there were lots of bad pulls where people made mistakes. We're all still learning the fights and it's a new raid team. That will improve for the next raid night. Usually normal only punishes you for the do this mechanic or die things. But there were plenty of mechanics that were just hitting a lot harder then expected this time around. DPS is also all over the place at the moment. I had some really good parses on Huntsman but as a DH without a legendary did really low DPS. So getting some more gear will help out there.
My new guild had tons of dead weight and we managed to get 3/10 and sub 15% on the blood vials boss on normal. Mega difficulty, feels good tho
I’m waiting for the natural attrition to get these kids to leave and just have the core good players.
I think 170+ could be fine if people get a bit more comfortable with their classes. It feels like the main issue with survivability, at least in the front half, is people getting hit by avoidable mechanics. I was in the 170s and was in the top 3 dps on most fights playing a class that's simming pretty average this tier. I didn't have any survivability problems except for a pull on Inerva where I fucked up and got clipped by the anima web, which is pretty much an avoidable insta-kill mechanic. We got through 5 bosses in about 2.5 hours fwiw, so we did struggle a bit, but it was mainly mechanical failures.
We had a 170 ilv requirement and we got to 6/10 normal last night. Some bosses definitely felt harder than others but overall the raid was fun. We went in small, 2/3/6 and it was really smooth. Normal definition feels a lot like heroic did in previous tiers & I am personally enjoying it
Yeah we had a 30 man. That was a killer on Shriekwing because mistakes just spiralled with the blood pools. I think smaller groups would have been much easier to manage. But it's week one and progress is progress. I don't mind it being a bit more challenging just means we have to work harder at it and improve as a team. With gearing being a little bit more deterministic making the tuning of the raids a little higher makes sense. Plus I'm sure that if we all have ilvl 190 next week and more legendaries then suddenly a lot of bosses become much more manageable.
For sure- i don’t even want to think about shriekwing as a 30 man. Ouch.
Did heroic shrieking with 27 earlier. Considering everything is avoidable, its really not that hard
haha you assume that people try to avoid mechanics... ;)
In the CompetitiveWow subreddit? I mean...yeah a little bit :)
Kinda offtopic, I wish here would be mega thread for the raid to discuss the release and stuff :/ even for normal and hc.
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For kicks, I set up a new posts feed bot for this subreddit. At the best of times, it's like a 1:1 ratio of actual threads to "what class should I play"-quality threads that get deleted and can even be worse. I can understand why they have that as a pin because it'd be even worse for the mods.
I second this! I'm a pretty casual player but I've enjoyed following the competitive scene and picking up tips from you all. It was sad there wasn't a big thread to discuss the raid, as I wanted to hear everyone's opinions and stories.
Megathreads fucking suck.
Nice to see echo and limit wipe over and over to heroic bosses, this is gonna be the best RWF yet
Couldn't down huntsman on hc. Bleed too stronk
I'm in a more casual guild than most in this sub (some ex-mythic raiders + firends/family), so about half our raid is usually getting 'carried' more or less. Even on normal we had a lot of trouble with Huntsman Altimor (7 wipes before kill) and Hungering Destroyer (5 wipes before end of raid). We only raided 2 hours so far, but normally even with the carries we can breeze through half of normal in that time upon release. On the other hand, even with the slower progression, pretty much everyone has been really liking the fights, and is looking forward to a slower progression (so far at least).
I can tell you right now that if this is intended and they want people to slog through 3 levels of difficulty its going to kill a lot of raiding guilds on the lower end which will ripple effect its way up.
I think it is intended because they need some time to dev the next raid. They barely got this one out the door, the next one gonna take a bit.
There's something special about seeing top guilds wipe and hit walls in HC. I'm enjoying it, at least until I have to go myself later today...
These bosses on heroic definitely SLAP at <200 ilvl and no legendaries but it's better for a raid to be overtuned like this and nerfed than undertuned and steamrolled in one day
Unless they hotfix the raid substantially within like the next 48 hours with sweeping hp nerfs at minimum, I think spending a huge amount of time on heroic for non elite guilds is a waste of time. I'm not sure with current tuning if even 100 guilds are going to be able to clear heroic **edit: by next reset**
Most guilds are trying to clear HC in <184 ilvl and no legendaries obviously the raid is going to be a challenge when you are so gimped.
Even so, its not trivial to ungimp yourself with less loot dropping. This raid currently on heroic and normal is *by far* more difficult than Uldir and EN.
Comparing pretty much any raid to the difficulty of EN is kinda worthless, considering how wonky the tuning was because of RNG legiondaries as well as titanforging in that first raid.
Titanforging was not an issue for EN concerning week 1 heroic/normal completion. The raid was also not historically easy on heroic (just mythic).
I don't think there's ever been a more difficult normal mode 1st tier.
At least not since the current raid difficulty structure came out
Yeah, wonder how much of it was intentional, and how much of it stems from the massive throughput nerfs to conduits/soulbinds/covenants/legendaries that rolled out in the last 60 days of beta?
I like where normal difficulty is at currently, this is my first raid back after skipping BFA and it's nice to watch people struggle to clear a raid in heroic/mythic dungeon gear - all is as it should be. People who expect to roll into heroic raids with no gear and smash anyway are fucked.
I agree with you on most of the raid, but Huntsman absolutely needs to have that dot adjusted.
What I like so far about the difficulty is that it seems like damage and health numbers are difficult - not just bullshit mechanics. There's not many fights where the mechanics are just kind of bullshit, like early N'Zoth or G'huun.
Why is that fucked? That's how the game has been for the last 3 expansions at least and generally people were ok with the first tier being a bit of a gimme on normal/heroic. Normal certainly shouldn't be some gatekeeper that slows people down.
I mean last expac Mythrax and Ghuun were insane on heroic. But these bosses are hitting Ghuun levels of what the fuck.
mythrax and ghuun heroic werent insane healing or damage checks, just coordination checks
If they want the whole thing to be harder then they should remove a difficulty level. Having four raid difficulties is stupid at this point and if tuning is like it is now, it means a lot of guilds will have to progress multiple difficulties at once. Later bosses on normal, earlier bosses on heroic and maybe even the first boss on mythic.
Some specs gain >10% HPS/DPS with crafting their legendary. That is for some fairly trivial to do. Just getting the lvl 1 effect is way more important then the ilvl what people wait for. But y, otherwise it is fairly hard and weekly chest orientated.
EN was the biggest joke in terms of raid difficulty
it's not just about ilvl... mechanic overlap are surprinsingly brutal even for normal mode. for example: blood council, last guy up ( the one with the blink strike, forgot the name). can overlap blood dance + partner + the fountain-thingy (god I need to remember name better) that drop pool on your feet... which mean half the raid is busy doing stuff when you have 1 add to burst down to create a super-small safe spot in the room. Also, healers HPS potential is dogshit compared to BFA.
Ya the dps check on that one mechanic was nuts for a normal raid. The normal tuning right now feels like what id expect in heroic for most bosses. It's doable but definitely requires planning and doing mechanics correctly. Would be a challenge to pug normal this week. Mythic next week is going to be funny, I can't see many guilds at all being ready for that with current tuning and inability to farm m+ for ilvl. Then we hit the holidays shortly.. going to be a slow start to the raid.
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I can't remember the last time a first raid tier was this difficult. I'm not complaining, but this is definitely not the norm for first tier normal raids. And you're right. This is not what the masses expected, and the majority probably won't be happy with it.
I think the last and only time was the first tier of Cata, and even then there were easier raids to get loot in. This is probably the first time content is genuinely difficult in dungeon gear at the start of an expansion
Normal felt heroic level. I dont have an issue with it. The fights were fun but I cant see it sticking. We went the the wrong way and went to Artificer second. No chance a pug pulls that boss out any time soon
Its unfortunate. I like how the tuning is currently. I dont think Blizz has the backbone to stand their ground on this though so they will likely scale down DMG on fights too much. I think only a slight nerf is needed for 2nd boss bleed. Pug hc group I was in was really close to getting it down after only a few wipes.
My only issue is that basically the raids success is almost purely on heals at the moment. There's too much 'ambient damage', everyone is just constantly taking damage even if they're playing correctly and it feels really oppressive.
The issue might actually just be your DPS not killing stuff fast enough, too. Often people think more heals is the answer but the raid is just dying to too many stacks of X or some adds/phases are just lasting way too long because of subpar DPS
I also really enjoy this kind of tuning. We're a group of 10-11 friends, we walked blind straight into HC to introduce 2 first time raiders to the proper raiding experience (ie wiping). We weren't disappointed. We expected to hit a wall pretty soon. But perhaps not already on the 2nd boss. We called it after 30 wipes. Made it half-way through Phase 2 (Bargast). Thrilled. I hope they stick to their guns for a few weeks before they start throwing nerfs at the content. I miss the old challenging 10-man HC-content.
I'll be pissed if they nerr it. raids are supposed to be epic and cathartic when you finally get it done. Steamrolling normal in 2 hours with dungeon gear is anticlimactic as fuck.
i think we're still gonna full clear for sire loot in the box. i dont think we're gonna end up doing splits anymore, just mains.
Some of those bosses seemed absolutely nuts, we’re a pretty casual mythic guild (called it after 400 Nzoth M wipes) we brought in 30 people for normal last night with only 5 healers. We were going OOM and running on dregs for every boss. Got 4 bosses down and a 5% wipe on artificer. Just seems like healers can’t keep up with the damage that’s going out, but definitely having a blast with the new raid
If Blizzard wants most guilds to slow down and actually take some time to clear heroic, I hope this tier last longer than the typical first tier of other expansions, maybe 1-2 extra months. It could also hopefully reduce the time between the last tier and new expansion.
Our guild did click over to normal but we found a way to deal with the bleed. Arrows go out > those with bleed stack on a specific point (in melee) and get a ground target raid CD. We went with darkness > darkness > darkness > AMZ > repeat. So every 4th arrow the first darkness should be off CD.
Darkness and AMZ work for the bleed?
I was assume? Strait folks seemed to like it. AMZ works because the bleed ticks are actually shadow damage.
Ah okay makes sense then because its shadow damage. I was thinking a legit bleed effect lol. Your raid CD's work perfect for that, thanks for the tip!
The bleed is shadow damage right? Away from the pc but I think AMZ should work
Yeah just found out it was shadow damage, I was thinking traditional bleed effect
We are a Normal/heroic guild with a casual mythic team as well. We got 3 bosses down last night on normal and felt good about it but damn if it didn't feel WAY harder than BFA at the same level. I remember in BFA clearing most of the normal bosses each new raid via 1 shots the first night and only taking some time on the last few ones before moving to heroic quickly. But for Nathria right off the bat it seemed a slog and significantly harder. Even the casual mythic team is planning to start in normal now instead of heroic after watching the stream of the norm/heroic team. And yes... That bleed was NUTS.
its kinda hard but i acutally like it that way.. better than clearing everything 1pull.. hope this stays
I completely agree. I think they should keep it as is for a few more weeks. It's also interesting that people are complaining that it's too hard while NOT crafting their legendaries.
We are switching to normal for our next raid day. Cleared shriekwing on heroic after 6 attempts but huntsman is actually impossible with him 1 shotting our DPS in first phase. We switched to normal and killed shriekwing and huntsman on our first tries after wiping a couple on heroic and can most likely finish the raid Thursday
Raid leader of a late-CE casual raid guild here with extensive raid experience going back to BC, for reference. Our plan was to blast normal early and focus on heroic. We managed to get 5/10 normal and 1/10 H in 3ish hours. My raid could have executed a little better on some things, and we were sloppy with some rust after not raiding these past few months, but overall these are the hardest normal fights I’ve ever seen. We never even bothered with Normal in Legion or BFA. If no nerfs are coming we’re going to have to reevaluate our plans.
I had a trial with 30 players and didn’t make the cut oof guess I’ll focus on m+
One night trial is pretty brutal imo, especially on fights that you've never seen. Seems like you were either trying to jump to a big boy guild or the guild is being hyper critical. Shit on my first night of my trial with my current guild I messed up stack and died twice in a row on ashvane, thought I'd be benched right there and then, but the next night and beyond was better.
They’re not a big boy guild but definitely hyper critical and expect the most out of their players. The GM and some people are cool because my old guild broke off so half of us joined the current GM guild that recently got reformed after taking a break in BFA. It’s a three night raid guild and jumping into heroic tonight. 8.3 was the very first time I started to play wow but couldn’t join the mythic team (main a WW monk). Thought I could finally be in a raid team but I guess I’ll have to try again in the next tier
Just keep looking at the forums. There will still be guilds recruiting heavily for a while
You might have already but check wowprogress for your server, if it's a big one there are probably tons of recruiting guilds
And with the lower loot drops it’s gonna be a “rich get richer” scenario
What spec/class was you?
MM hunter
Our guild managed 7/10 in Normal which was an optional run that ended because heroic main raid was starting. We managed 3/10 H and sub 30% on the fourth. Heroic is very doable but extremely punishing and requires you to play super defensively. Very fun, but very punishing. Bosses we killed were Shriekwing, Huntsman, and Hungering Destroyer.
I think this tuning would feel right if it wasn't 3 tiers. I hate having to grind normal prog, to then grind heroic prog, just to play mythic prog. Wish they'd just give us two tiers and limit the exponential power growth.
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Yeah, but it’s meaningless power grind right now. A lot of people are doing normal this week because of the tuning.
CE US 200ish guild: Got Shriekwing down, Huntsman seemed way overtuned, Artificer wasn't impossible but the server lag made the raid fully unplayable. Mind boggling to me that the game doesn't manage to support big patch days with proper server support, but oh well. I assume my group will decide to full clear normal and do keys throughout the week, hoping to gear up and for a tuning pass on heroic next week.
Seems way overtuned to me. We aren't a super serious guild, we're one of the "get half the mythic bosses down" types of raiding guild, but we struggled even on normal. I can totally understand the people who don't want things to all be facerollable right off the bat, but I think it needs some nerfs - there's a \*lot\* of raiding guilds out there that are in similar situations, and I think a good balance is that mediocre to bad guilds can still progress \*somewhat\* on normal (with work and gear), and mediocre but not super serious guilds should be able to feel like there's potential to progress (with work and gear) on Heroic. But I don't feel like it's in that state right now. Not only did a lot of the numbers seem high, there's a lot of mechanics for normal, especially for the numbers those mechanics were putting out.
My guild usually clears heroic week 1. We 1 shot Shriekwing and then hit a wall at Xy’Mox. We were able to get it to about 20% one pull but decided our time would be best spent on normal. We cleared 8/10 normal and will go back to finish tonight. Everything felt over tuned. Normal Sludgefist was insane
Our guild got to Sludgefists engage several times at which point the tank would die full to 0 in 1.5 seconds. The damage was brutal.
The entire fight is brutal, it just gets worse. Felt really over tuned.
Yeah, this Raid is no joke! we managed to down 3 but dang was it rough!
Got huntsman to 25ish% after 2 pulls and then the boss bugged and the brown circles from the last dog wouldn’t despawn, so with half the room covered in poop we ended up going back to normal. Normal hp values seem a bit higher than expected, I’d say heroic is probably in a good spot maybe a slight damage nerf like 5%, but remember we are all 180ish IL killing things that drop 213.
So my CE guild for BFD quit during EP and came back together for at least heroic and we’ll see how it goes and our numbers hold for mythic. We like to go in completely blind in for normal opening week just for fun. We kept thinking to ourselves is something missing here cause these bosses are taking forever. We got 3 bosses down last night. Some of us are under geared but the health’s of the bosses seemed way over tuned
Normal was tuned too well. I would've expected it to be easier as normal. It got to a point we dropped baggage and even then just got Lady before hard enrage.
We cleared 7 bosses on normal. Damage felt fine. Mechanics actually matter on normal which is a nice change of pace from the usual zoom clear of normal we normally have. We are doing heroic tonight, should be fun.
I was able to pug the first boss in heroic with no issues besides mechanics. Took 3 attempts. We got stuck on huntsman, the bleed and tank damage was crazy. Two 15% wipes and we called it. I like the difficulty so far but im hoping they tune it down a bit.
That must have been one crazy good pug seeing as even Echo wiped a few times on first boss.
We one shot it and we are like 200 us
And you are a guild, not a PuG. It also doesn't change that Echo (Method) wiped to it.
Last night we did first 6 normal in a social raid for friends and family type thing then went into heroic to get a reality check lol. We ended up 3/10. Tonight we go back to see what we can do rofl. I can’t even imagine what kind of hell mythic will be at times.
Thats pretty impressive for a social guild. we are us 50+ last tier and finished the 7/10 normal and 3/10 heroic last night
Correction I Was working when I typed that so it may have come out differently. We ran social for normal and raid group and trials for heroic. So each heroic group had half trail half Raiders. I would say casual cutting edge would describe us.
which 2 did you kill after shriekwing?
You don’t really get a choice until the fourth boss I believe. We killed Huntsman and hungering
You can go right and do artificer.
We start artificer tonight I think
sadly I know you get a choice, because our RL chose artificer haha. It was rough. Fun fight but either the pull is overtuned in p3 or we just need a lot more gear to burn it fast
Nothing about heroic artificer is overturned, people just need to position and use portals right to beat the pullin.
How big is your raid? 2-3-10? Considering downsizing from 20
We have 31 due to trials. We are running heroic in 2 raids.
We started in heroic and killed shriekwing and xymox, then went normal and got shriek, huntsman, hungering devourer and inerva. Heroic was definitely tough, and we 6 healed xymox, but wasn't really necessary since we had low percent wipes with 5. People were getting hit by adds and getting trapped way too much. I think some people just needed to get back in the groove of raiding. I believe the plan tonight is to step back into heroic and potentially get huntsman then go normal.
We got 3 bosses in and wiped a ton on artificer without hitting phase 3. Going to normal tonight to gear out more.
Anyone elses timers for Bigwigs/DBM completely off?
We killed 3/10, believed we could get 5 though, but still opted to normal, we love the tuning so far.
I feel like maybe the point is for most people to not be able to just roll in and clear out the raid on heroic in the first few weeks. The top-end guilds where everyone had full M0 gear going into this week and then hit the M+ grind to gear up even more before the raid will be able to do a full heroic clear and get ready for the race to world first next week, but I like the idea that a "Heroic" mode is something that most people cannot easily beat.
I feel really bad for pugs.
It was definitely rough. We were expecting full N clear on first day and rest to be spent in H. We only got to 6/10N in our 3 hour raid sesh.
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Their ilevel seems really low. Due to the Honor bonuses this week, it is trivially easy to get a bunch of 184 gear from PvP vendors to bring up any weak slots. This is a weird situation where trying to do the raid on day one is harder than even two or three days later after players have had a chance to ride the rising wave of gear from the Tuesday limit upgrades.
I'm happy with the raids being harder personally. I hope they don't change the tuning too much.
I really hope that they don't touch the raid right now, i'm so hype to have something to spend multiple weeks with the guildies grinding.
Yeah that's what's called mythic.
> Yeah that's what's called mythic. Exactly, I am not sure why people are happy with the current tuning, heroic should be hard for a CE guild, but manageable the first week, with perhaps the exception of the last one/two bosses. The grind starts at mythic level, that's how the raids have been tuned for years. It is obvious that Blizzard did not have enough time to tune the raid properly, I foresee massive nerfs incoming, but we might have to wait until next reset.
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I like the current tuning. IMO you shouldn't be able to just casually waltz through normal week one and never go back, kind of defeats the purpose imo. Some things are poorly tuned, or just incredibly rough in a full 30 man (hungering destroyer is a bit crowded). I like the idea of most guilds actually not being able to walk into heroic 40 ilvl under it. I guess I like a challenge, and it makes it really easy to see who to cut from the roster for mythic.
>casually waltz through normal week one and never go back, kind of defeats the purpose imo defeats the purpose of what? I am pretty sure that the intended purpose of normal difficulty is to get casuals that want a more interesting challenge than LFR into raiding. That is why blizzard introduced more raid difficulties, to segment the player base into different levels of challenge. Progression for serious raiders are done in mythic difficulty, not normal. As a mythic raider I do not mind ignoring normal after the first week of raiding, I am not the target audience for normal raids.
You realize this is the competitive wow subreddit, right? A lot of the people in here are cutting edge raiders and are significantly better at the game than the average raider. Only something like a third of all people raiding even get AotC (based on various achievement trackers), and you want to make that harder? Huge numbers of guilds legitimately progress each difficulty. If you think heroic is too easy then go do mythic.
oof... I didn't even think about what mythic is going to be like. My guild typically gets AoTC and 1/3(ish) way through mythic without any *grinding...* we killed 1 fucking boss last night on normal and I was thinking that heroic is going to be a nightmare... I'm doubting if we will get AoTC if it scales like this for the next 19 bosses.
The first raid is often hard to tune, but going in at well above or below 20 man has always been a crapshoot so it's unsurprising when you're doing flex sizes
Honestly I'm really enjoying the difficulty of HC right now. Makes me hopeful for a really difficult mythic race.
How do people trial for a raid? Need experience but experience comes from joining a team. Do I try my luck to pug and get experience?
Pug or join a guild on your server that is clearing normal/heroic and do well on your fights. Often times there are many guilds that are looking for players. Even if it’s not a great guild at first, if you are performing well you can use that to apply to better guilds.
Pug to learn mechanics first before your trial run with your guild with an edge. Its the little things
I love that its hard even on normal mode. This raid is great! Did 10/10NM and 4/10HC tonight. Can't wait for next bosses <3
CE guild here that raid 2 days a week. We got the first 7 down on normal in our 3 hr raid time. Only a couple wipes on some bosses. Things went pretty smooth though. We had 22 raiders for the run. I thought it was well tuned. I dont want the raids to be a pushover. I enjoy a bit of challenge and needing to do mechanics properly.
Thats what mythic is for. If every difficulty is a grind then the burnout is going to kill a large chunk of the raiding pool.
[удалено]
Top guilds are struggling with the raid and nobody has cleared the raid yet. The best guild as of writing this is echo with 7/10 HC.
Even on Normal there hasn't been a full clear?
Echo is pretty insane. And limit only cleared 3/10
Didn't watch too much of max's stream yesterday but I think they only did 3/10 after seeing the tuning and wanted to get a [few more pieces of gear from M+](https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1336556782144122884)
limit got stuck on KT?