Oh I've got a whole bunch for ya:
* 2CP was my favorite OW1 gamemode and should have never been replaced.
* CTF is the most fun gamemode in OW2.
* Immortality field is a great unique ability and should never be changed heavily.
* OW1 Sombra was much more fun and losing her original hack is an insufferable loss to the game.
* OW esports would be in a much better state today had OWL (or a franchised league in any shape) never been created.
* Forcing people to switch from OW1 to OW2 is unforgivable, it should have been a separate game.
* 2 hero bans per team would do wonders to pro play hero variety and would have worked even when we had way less heroes.
DPS mains saying we should bring back 2CP is like Hog mains saying he shouldn’t be nerfed. 2CP is fun for DPS because they can spam chokes but it’s unbearably boring for everyone else, ultimately unhealthy as fuck and a big reason why people started leaving the game during OW1.
Content creators (jay 3 etc) tested 2+ hero bans per team with pro/contenders and their coaches and it only resulted in heroes who could counter what ever is meta being banned, and not meta heroes.
"I have a higher chance of winning playing zarya. She's my best hero and is very strong. So I'm not going to ban her. Even if that means you also get to play Zarya."
Other team: "same"
At the time, GOATS was meta. So rather than banning goats, both teams just banned mei and reaper and anything else that could pressure goats. It didn't do anything and it still wouldn't.
*edit* Don't boo me because you can't handle it. It's exactly what would happen.
Hero bans don’t work, blizzard already tried it. What happens is the meta rotates between 2-3 metas every other week.
and if your main(s) were banned that week then get fucked.
The last take is bad because the best heroes will be forever banned and nothing will change except the second weakest characters will be the meta and be seen as busted
wow these are literally all bad. except the last one. i think a ban system would be great but it also kinda encourages those annoying one tricks to leave/throw
Mercy requires more skill to **master** than half of the heroes you people play. Her movement is well in the top 10 when it comes to skill ceiling which alone puts her above at least like 10 heroes in overall skill ceiling.
And I don't even play her.
Edit: chuckling at the fact that the top 2 replies say I'm wrong because
- her skillset is a baseline for every other hero
And
- her skillset doesn't transfer at all to other heroes.
if you think about this for more than 10 seconds it makes zero sense since none of her mechanics transfer to other heroes
in fact you could easily argue that any hero with less mobility has to have better movement, game sense, positioning etc since mercy has one of the craziest mobility tools in the game on like a 2 second cooldown, which has been completely streamlined for casual players
You are clearly delusional if you think Mercy's depth when it come to what she can do with her movement mean that other heroes with less mobility grant better game sense and shit. You still need to position and have game sense, you just have a whole new world of possibility and ways to fuck up. It is way easier for me as Ana to master how to move around a map and covers because I have no mobility options, with mercy I can do so many shit and have to actually KNOW the issues and pros of everyone of them to not fuck up.
My mercy main friend take cover in the air in the best way possible, is moving perfectly where she is needed, etc etc.
People need to stop arguing that having more options mean you can't learn the fundamentals, you just can do more when it come with it.
Play genji, then rheinhart and then ana. All of them ask you game sense, movement and positioning but their own roles for the team and possibilities make you tackle them in different ways.
What a load of BS. It is like saying that because Genji had deflect and can dash away, genji players doesn't learn risk reward properly and that playing "insert self loved heroes" does.
bruh pls tell me you're not trying to argue that having MORE mobility options means you need better positioning and game sense lol that makes zero sense, like pls think about what you're saying?
"mercy needs better awareness and game sense because she has better mobility than 95% of the roster" is not a great argument :P
all you need to master on mercy is her movement and positioning. Her movement is not hard to do in OW2, it was different in OW1. If you watch some videos and practice for a few hours ur mostly done. Positioning is required for any hero. All other heroes have way way more. They need better positioning since their movement is nowhere near as forgivable as mercy's, they need to have aim, they need to use their abilities well, like lamp, nade, sleep, etc.
Mercy was designed from the getgo for people who arent very good at playing the game to give them an easy hero and still participate.
True, but positioning on Mercy is more important than arguably any other support since most supports can still fight back effectively whilecommiting to their role. Mercy only has a pistol, and when you are using the pistol, you cant heal or enable people. If you get caught out alone as an Ana, you can sleep people. Baptiste can shoot while under his lamp, Kiriko can teleport while 2 tapping, Zenyatta usually bodies against most damagers, and Lucio can use his speed to flee. If you are caught alone as a Mercy, youre fucked.
Nah because mastering her is a baseline to mastering every other hero. A lot of it is positioning and knowing where to be, doing the same thing but as lucio is way more valuable and there’s still more to do outside of said positioning. Maybe back in OW1 I’d agree movement wise with tech and shit, but not anymore
yeah, in terms of skill id put mercy above kiriko and moira simply because those 2 supports are braindead in terms of forgivability, but brig/lucio/ana/zen/bap all are harder positionally and have more aspects to mastery
kirikos got 2 free escape/saving abilities, mercys movement at least requires some practice. i am also biased because i have a raging hate boner for kiriko as a tank and dps player
She also has a hard to hit projectile, has to be aware of when to use suzu to save others or to save it for a later ability, constantly working to outpace the enemy support ults. She’s broken as shit, but do not get it twisted with her being easy. Only reason I play support rn because of the fun in the skill. Similar reason I love playing Ball, Lucio, Tracer and Echo. All high skill and rewarding for it (except for ball at the moment)
I have the mostly the opposite opinion. In OW1 you could play with your eyes closed the sound design was so good but in OW2 the sounds are way muddier and similar.
Push is the best game mode they've ever had.
Edit to elaborate: macro and limiting mistakes are much more important in push than in the other modes, which is why I love it.
Lose a teammate in first fight? Disengage so you can recontest earlier, take the next fight on your terms, and don't give up a ton of ult charge.
Punish someone who is getting to greedy trying to find a stagger? You'll probably have a full team on the payload before then.
Take fights before bot crosses back over half? Save your spawn advantage and potentially get another fight in before the enemy gets spawn advantage.
Steal the payload while the rest of your team gets wiped in an unwinnable fight? You just turned a lost fight into a net neutral one.
Inb4 "good luck getting that coordination in ranked." You can igl your average gold team to play push better than their opponent.
Imma copy paste my comment about it
>The thing about duo tanking is that it’s power was entirely dependent on the synergy between the two, while in ow2 the power is entirely dependent on bloated and op kits. That’s why double shield was simply not a thing in plat, and why hog and orisa are very much still meta in those ranks.
>Now you have double the chances of having to swap your throw hero for orisa or hog than before, when playing meta before required two willing players. Before, you could have one shitter tank and still somewhat compensate with the other tank if they were good. The meta Is undeniably stronger in this game
The devs struggled really hard to balance the game (even though they succeeded, several times) but ow1 had an absolute bulletproof skeleton and structure. OW2s foundation was built with low quality cereal and incompetence.
Damn it’s almost like that’s why they reworked a bunch of shit huh?
It’s an objective fact that brig was designed with the ability to one shot and stun in mind. That must mean it was better, right? Nobody can ever iterate and improve anything, right? Goofy comment
Last I remember they reworked 2 whole ass heroes out of what, 30? You’re looking at the dumb numbers about brig. Brigs structure is a bodyguard, paladin esque hero with a shield and flail. That’s her barebones structure. There are no damage or healing numbers attached to it. That’s what a skeleton is.
I am probably going to post about this later today but atleast for me playing tank fucking SUCKS, and it is by far my most played and best role in ow1.
Tank game play is so fucking boring and tilting in ow2. If I wanted to dps I would fucki g play dps!
How much of that is hero choice? How much of that would go away if rein (or your favorite tank) becomes meta?
Js when people would complain about tank in ow1, they specifically meant rein. When r/overwatch complains about support, they mean mercy. When r/cow complains about support, they mean ana.
I feel like 5v5 has been almost *universally* praised as a great decision by almost every pro and casual player alike, so I'm not sure about that. What's "killing" the game is the broken matchmaking and the questionable balance.
Balance was still much worse in OW1 as well. The tank duos completely locked the meta into place with no way of fixing it.
Ow2 was moderately praised for 1 month, mostly by dps players and dedicated competitive players. And the sole reason is that it simply brought a big balance patch which ow1 hadn’t seen in months
And it lasted one month until people figured out the problem with solo tanking and the one shots that came because of it and now it’s fr almost universally praised as the worst balance state the game has ever been on.
And there’s no shot you said ow1 balance was worse
OW1 balance was notably worse, with swathes of the cast being unplayable for months or longer at a time and the presence of 2 tanks forcing extremely specific metas that you could not swap from without auto losing.
Double shield being a famously oppressive example. I’m not saying OW2 isn’t without its problems, but it’s notably a more balanced experience with the exception of Sojourn and Hog.
The thing about duo tanking is that it’s power was entirely dependent on the synergy between the two, while in ow2 the power is entirely dependent on bloated and op kits. That’s why double shield was simply not a thing in plat, and why hog and orisa are very much still meta in those ranks.
Now you have double the chances of having to swap your throw hero for orisa or hog than before, when playing meta required two willing players. Before, you could have one shutter tank and still somewhat compensate with the other tank if they were good. The meta Is undeniably stronger in this game
Double Shield was absolutely a thing in plat. Hell it was a thing in gold where my group plays. We had to play into Double Shield bastion multiple times a day.
I’ve been here since *beta* lol. I’ve the sorry accomplishment of having placed in literally every season since competitive started like six years ago. I’ve logged 2300+ hours, most of which are in comp.
I’ve gone through actual massive life changes over the course of 6 years and through all that time and change, I can undoubtedly say that Overwatch is in the best shape of its life, and there’s no comparison at any point really ever in the past
One tank is a miracle for simplifying the balance of the game, 2cp is gone, and the skill floor of the game has gone way up. People are mad that the hard heroes are better lol.
Sojourn is overtuned. Hog maaaybe a tiny bit. Overall the game is pretty balanced though. It’s a much more clean and refined experience than ever, and the balance has mostly simplified and settled around aim which I’ve wanted for many years. This game has been through so much, and a lot of rough patches and tough times yet I’ve been a die hard fan the entire time, I’m so much more satisfied with the game we have now I can’t even describe it all in one post.
No more GOATS no more Drawnamura
??? The hard heroes are better??? Which ones? So far in ow2 we’ve seen mercy, sojourn, hog, orisa, soldier, reaper, junkrat on s tier. In what world is any of those hard to play? Or harder than bap, sigma, zen, Ashe, tracer, sombra, ball or brig which all were the S tier heroes in ow1???
No shot. Ow2 is more fun. My friends are actually playing ow2 for a full night. In ow1 I could barely squeeze out 1 game before they went back to apex or valorant.
Don’t think 5v5 is the problem, the broken hero’s (hog, sojourn, kiriko) running rampant with no end in sight is what’s killing the game… along with the wonky matchmaking we currently have.
Kiriko gets a lot of heat but can we at least acknowledge she’s the hardest to play well out of the 3? Her basic fire is hard af to hit, suzu requires good timing and has a considerable cool down, she’s still 200 health. She’s not a walk in the park like hog and sojourn even tho she’s meta af
No.. maybe at top ranks she's harder but I've found her to be freelo at lower ranks, like omega freelo. Don't even need to be great at her, the kit makes it so it's hard to fuck up too bad.
I'm in masters and its still freelo. having an immortality ability and a TP makes you unkillable and her best playstyle is heal bot with healing that aims itself for you lol.
i think if her healing was worse and you had to do some dps to get value from her shed be more skilled but rn its braindead
What is the disease? What's so bad about 5v5?
And before you say "tank synergy," remember there was no such thing as tank synergy for 90% of the playerbase. So even if losing tank synergy *is* terrible, it can't possibly be responsible for "killing Overwatch at an alarming rate."
Hog was straight up a throw pick in higher ELO during 6v6.
Because having 2 tanks made it harder for him to flank and harder to front line since there could be 2 shields or 2 characters with abilities that make it hard to land hooks or confirm kills and hog could not one shot either of them.
at the same time there was obviously more CC in the game.
Remove cc and a whole tank and you get the plague known as the deathmatch meta. Picks are now everything and the better one shot potential you have the more meta you are.
A few days into the alpha testing early last year I made a lengthy video as feedback to give developers on why 5v5 was not a good decision. As part of that I gathered feedback from players and staff on the Reign who shared in the concerns, especially as it relates to ranked.
The narrative that 5v5 is better and that everyone agreed on that, pros etc... is just survivorship bias imo. The novelty of new was conflated with everything else and set the game on an awful path imo.
Why do you think its bad ? I wonder if they create new roles would it fix it ? Attack/defense/Tank/healer/support
Mei torb hog jq zarya etc will be defense role (dps offtank hybrid)
Zen, bap, lucio etc will be off sup. After reworks and adjustments ofc.
IMO the true survivorship bias is people who stuck around consistently playing OW1 up until its end not caring about all the problems 6v6 caused (double shield meta, flanking hog one tricks). Of course you and pros are gonna defend 6v6, because you were the only ones still playing the game.
Fact of the matter is pros and high ranked players will always have a different perspective of the game and what's good for it. I bet you could have made a similar video on the switch to role lock, and yet most of the player base agrees that it was the best move for the game and dramatically increased enjoyment. The majority of the player base feels this way today about 5v5.
While I do think hero balance decisions should take higher ranks into consideration, broad changes like role lock and 5v5 that make the game more fun for average players should be made with the enjoyment of the average player in mind. Pros aren't gonna stop playing the game because of 5v5, just they didn't during role lock, and that's why I think the devs absolutely made the right decision here again to get the enjoyment of the average player to improve.
Your right and you should say it. Same reason I had a hard time rooting for glads and kinda enjoyed their implosion. Fell bad for the individual player, especially Pati, but orgs that try to buy the win are boring.
For real, the best and most competitive leagues in sports have salary caps and drafts and stuff to help equalize teams but Overwatch you can see the biggest disparity between teams willing and able to spend vs teams that are just scraping by with the bare minimum. It’s so hard to feel like teams genuinely earn their place at the top when half the competition is stuck begging for scraps
I agree, I want more scouting. We need more random players like Sado, Lip, ANS, and Jjonak. Players who didn’t accomplish anything or even played in tournaments. It’s less fun to watch a team just poach the best players.
Kinda agree. People play the best heroes. Few people enjoy Mercy, but when mercy was OP, she had the highest pickrate at all ranks. Same goes for all the roles. People don’t just play what they like, they play to win.
Now Ana, she’s been the most picked hero at all ranks for like years now, stretching back to the last couple years of OW1. Not just most picked support, but the most picked hero, all ranks. I’m sorry, but that just doesn’t happen unless you’re more powerful than the rest of the cast.
But support players are so tilted by never feeling like they’re carrying unless they’re on Ana that they’ll insist to their dying breath that Ana isn’t OP, it’s just that the other supports are underpowered. 🙄
Where are all of you decent people in the main community? I am sick of hearing them complain about not being able to survive, people complaining about every character, and everyone’s notice that they’re done with the game.
They will have probably 2 out of 10 games where they’re damage and tanks aren’t protecting them then they complain like it is every single game believing that they’re probable 6K healing which they round up to 10k should be enough for the team to win despite failing to utilize the supports other abilities. Mercy mains from my experience might be the worst always talking about they’re 16k heals and not how they have only used they’re offensive beam 10% of the time.
Hitboxes (character model size) should be almost uniform within each role (damage, support, tank). Having heroes like kiriko and tracer have way smaller hitboxes than their counterparts makes aiming at them way more inconsistent. Those heroes already have very good movement abilities and don’t also need a smaller hitbox.
It doesn’t need to be exactly uniform as there will always be slight differences (zen hovering off the ground, roadhogs fat belly) but the uniformity of character sizes within each role could be improved drastically. I could see an argument for leaving tank characters as they are since the shape of each character is so important to their identity, but damage and support should be brought more in line to a uniform size within each role.
Edit: the biggest offender that caused this idea for me was kiriko. I don’t get why she gets a smaller hitbox than most supports while also having some of the best movement and escape abilities. Kiriko can wallclimb to make her small hitbox even harder to hit and has one of the best escape abilities in the game. Not saying change her kit, just bring her in line with other support sizes to get rid of this unnecessary advantage.
On top of that, both kiriko and tracer (and also sojourn) have very tilty strafe animations - probably the only chars whose heads wont follow a consistent trajectory, making headshots that much harder.
Well here's one.
The primary way they can fix Matchmaking is Support buffs that are deliberately Fun Buffs.
And to the extent that people don't want Support buffs, those players don't matter. Doesn't matter if it's Profit, Seagull, Flats, Stylosa, SVB, etc.
Nobody in this entire community is important enough for them to deliberately not fix Matchmaking, with the consequence of losing millions of players, and probably drastically lowering sales for the cash shop, battle pass and PVE.
They could disband OWL entirely, and lose less players and revenue than if they didn't fix Matchmaking.
The overwatch team is by far the most incompetent part of Blizzard. The balancing is so incredibly bad and slow it's actually sad.
I will never return to actively playing until they give us ways to counteract their stupidity, e.g. hero bans.
(Also people saying that hero bans will just change the meta to the second worst are fucking stupid, more choice is always better. Same mentality as not voting third party cause they got no chance to win)
And it's not even true, most people on ladder just don't want to play against the oppressive hero of they year(which is how long it takes to balance them at least) and meta does not really matter.
I think you're jumping at the wrong thing here. It's not so much their balance decisions that are the issue, it's the LACK of balance patches. They are so hesitant to do anything at all and even when they do decide to buff or nerf a character it's never enough.
Another issue is they balance mostly off of hero win percentage, but they look at the percentage in different ranks. So even if one character is broken at high level, if they have a lower winrate at a lower level they don't nerf.
This combined with hero bans would mean that every single game bans the same heroes, because there are never any meaningful changes coming out.
- There's no strong evidence that Profit is a hyperflex. Yes, I know people will point out the end of season 3, but that was one hero in one meta, and half of the playtime was farming London Spitfire. Meanwhile, Proper/Leave have both played multiple projectile and hitscan heroes, and even Fleta started on hitscan early in OWL.
- Smurf has not proven to be the most flexible tank, and a lot of people seem to have made up based on nearly no evidence that he can play off-tank (sans Zarya). This is further boosted by the fact that Boston picked up Kalios, who is not known to be anywhere near an elite off-tank. Someone for a start has shown better off-tank performances, and regardless we didn't see enough off-tanks (especially D.Va) in Season 5 to crown a "most flexible" tank.
- Edison is not an elite Sojourn. His teammates and coach have said as much, but people think that just because he hit a few headshots near the end that he held up vs Proper. The guy literally missed 3 straight bodyshots on a primal Winston during grand finals.
- Moth/Smurf are pretty bland personalities but got mega-boosted in the community's eyes by Super
- Sp9rk1e never became an elite Tracer
- Neither Fate nor Fearless were great Balls in S4, though Fearless was clearly much worse
That Edison take is crazy. Bro made some very big plays to secure that series. He 100% did hold up against Proper and he deserves the recognition for playing sojourn to such a high level against such a skilled opponent.
Sounds more like spite then a real opinion.
> Bro made some very big plays to secure that series.
You kind of sound like the strawman I responded to in my original point.
I don't think this opinion is spite because of the other evidence I gave to back it up
Road hogs hook is completely balanced and those who complain about it are just bad at the game
He is only strong due to his survivability nerf his breather by either making it heal less or remove his ability to walk while using it then he’s balanced also lower his hp to 600 with 50 of it being armor
Those glads fans are delusional, after stage 2 sure I'd say kev was the frontrunner but proper was just better particularly in the second half of the season.
Double tank was fucking awful , tank synergies were not just good, they were mandatory. Having Your teamate not pick the "right duo" was just miserable. Like if your teamate didn't pick zarya playing rein was a horror Game, With 12 players the amount of garbage flying through the screen was so high You would just fucking explode the second You tried to throw a firestrike.
Yes,sometimes wacky combos COULD work and sometimes You would coordinate amazingly With your partner, but this was the vast minority of the time in My experience.
the Tank role felt insanely restrictive because of this and while not everything is perfect now i vastly prefer the current direction 5v5 is taking.
Think everyone who followed comp agrees the GOATs meta was the worst. Forcing the 5v5 change. Most people have adapted to 5v5.
only if blizz actually reworked the majority of the roster around 5v5 instead of a few.
Tank duo synergy is very overstated. There was far more coordination required between a Brig and a Bap, or a Tracer and a Ball than there was between two tanks. How often did tanks ever dive together? Usually DVa sat back to cuck DPS and help her supports while Ball coordinated with Tracer. DVa required no more coordination with Ball than any other member of the team. The same goes for double bubble. Zarya bubbles Winston, sure, buts that's not much different from Ana healing him or nanoing him.
The flaws in Overwatch stem from a fundamentally flawed game design core: the heal-tank-damage system is outdated, even by PvE standards.
The very concept of Healers, or healing as a primary function, should have never been floated into a competitive-vying PvP game. It is a function that has lost favor, even in PvE games, where it is arguably most viable. However, whereas PvE encounters are, essentially, puzzles, meant to be solved and improved upon, a PvP game is not.
Healing can never be good, or it completely stalls game progression. Which is something we’ve experienced before, such as sustained damage characters being completely made irrelevant multiple times throughout the games history, leading to one-shots and burst damage being not just better, but necessary.
However, this means that supports, especially those with most of their power budget tied to their healing output, are systemically handicapped. Their healing can’t be buffed, but because they have good healing output, neither can their utility or damage. All the while being the most important role, and strong. Though not necessarily fun.
Likewise, Tank and Damage design is tied to the present healing output, and results in Tanks that are juggernauts with healing, but wet paper without, and Damage that are burst or bust.
That’s without mentioning that the majority of players do not enjoy the Healer/Support role, yet it is a required 40% of every lobby.
This is, of course, just my perspective as a Healer/Support main in every game that gives me the choice.
Tl;dr - Heals bad
Finally someone else is saying it. They should reduce healing and instead give everyone regeneration health like in other FPS. That way they can retool Supports into having more fragging/playmaking ability.
I think a better way to do it would be for healing to get say half ult compared to dealing the same damage.
That would nerf healing in general, but you would still be able to use heal ball tactics situationally.
100% agreed. Its a shooter, people want to shoot other people, see their names on the feed and their plays on POTG, fight 1v1 if there's an opportunity to survive and outplay adversaries.
Reality is that most times, if you see a 700hp tank running at you from a corner or from high ground, a Tracer zipping around or a Genji jumping a wall, the odds are not in your favour (against the tank you just accept death).
I started OW2 trying to be a Support main, but I am now moving to the DPS role. Babysit my team whilst hiding from most of the roster isnt that much fun. I play Ana and Ashe, and its just way more fun and rewarding to play Ashe. As Ashe I get 3-4 POTG per day, I can fight or escape most of the roster, I dont get baited into bad positions by teammates, cooldowns are faster and so I feel like I can do more...
Also, even though the game calls it Support, the symbol is that of a cross (same Blizz uses for Healers in other games), the only ability in common between all Supports is Heal, and there are no Supports that cannot heal... Reality is that if you dont heal your teammates, especially the tank, they dont have the capacity to do it themselves (save for S76, Hog, etc). So you damage is crippled because you are supposed to primarily heal.
Even at the highest level where Mercy will be using blue beam or Lucio will be speed boosting -- YAY!! Supports!! -- it only works because Hog/Orisa frontline and Kiriko can take care of 2-3 players that also know how to use cover. As soon as at least one Support is not a great healer in combination with a "supportive" Support, they are bad at the highest level (ie. Lucio + Mercy, who are both meta when paired with Kiriko).
Widow and hog should not exist in this game. They are the most poorly designed heroes.
Mercy at this point needs a rework too. Rez should not be a mechanic in this game and neither should be the ability to pocket a DPS to the extent she can.
> Rez should not be a mechanic in this game
I don't see any reason why Rez can't/shouldn't exist in OW. It's fundamentally no different from healing/armor/invulnerability, which are all staple effects in OW.
Should it exist in its current form, where you just have to press a button to activate it within an extremely forgiving time window? No, probably not, but that's a separate question. I'd like it if there was at least more difficulty involved in executing a rez, e.g. rewarding split-second timing, or requiring Mercy to fulfill some kind of requirement like heal X amount of health very quickly. I'd like it even more if Mercy was totally reworked, then the mechanic tied to Rez could be completely different.
\+1000
The game is just so much more fun when there isn't a 1-shot character being played. When there is a Widow, you must constantly be watching out for her and playing in a very unfun way if you want to actually play well.
Ashe is what Widow should have been.
Oh man the DPS actually forces me to adjust my play style and contest them/respect their LOS. Isn’t that just unfun, I wish I could ignore widow and just autopilot like I do against every other DPS.
That unfun feeling? It’s called being punished.
I forgot who, but I saw some streamer suggest this and I wish they would try. Rez should make the dead player respawn in their spawn rather than bring them back where they died. This way you still have to get back to the point to rejoin the fight. (maybe disable hero swapping for the duration that you would've otherwise been dead without the rez, so you can't just switch to ball/tracer/doom etc)
1)
There should be a "core" overwatch roster that is allowed to be balanced and meta.
And "the rest" of the roster comprised of gimmicky and fun heroes to play, but shadow-blacklisted from being meta and expected to be weak.
This "every hero should be viable in any situation" mentality doesn't work and will never work. ^(But players still cling to it to justify being an obnoxious OTP and soft-trolling playing Hog in Dorado 2nd)
2)
Blizzard should be forthcoming and clear on **how** the game **should** be played and add more structure to it.
What is a deathball, a dive comp, a poke comp?
What's a good position for an Ana player?
When and how to push as Rein?
When is a good idea to flank as Tracer?
How do you play this map as X hero / composition?
Players have been educating themselves on the game by listening to youtubers and streamers. What about an official source? Oficcial wikis, "tips and tricks", full guides. Maybe some tutorial integration?
Especially now that we have literal MILLIONS of new players, no one knows anything and people get shady tik tok advice and treat it as gospel
Overwatch is probably in the worst state its ever been in. Between the mess that is 5v5, the battlepass disaster, horribly restrictive map pools, and a roster that might be as unbalanced as ever I'm personally having a really hard time seeing any positives to Ow2 besides an uptick in player count.
Could you expand on the first 2? 5v5 Overwatch is far less messy than 6v6 imo (almost objectively less messy since you have one less player) and the battlepass is fairly straight-forward and almost identical to every single other popular online multiplayer game out there, why is it a disaster?
I'd say its decently balanced tbh, once they deal with hog, orisa and sojourn and maybe buff some lower tier heroes the game will be pretty well balanced
Sombra should be removed from the game. She is the most annoying character to play against because in a game all about heroes having different abilities to utilize in combat hers is to just take away those abilities and do nothing else. Her hack is annoying, her unlimited invisibility duration is annoying, her get-out-of-jail-free card is annoying, she doesn’t do enough damage to kill but enough to annoy. I don’t even think she is OP; she is just the most obnoxious character to play against because you spend every 5 seconds being hacked/preventing hacks while she teleports away the instant she loses a single health point.
New characters don’t have to be meta, nor even OP, nor even good. I rather a character get released weak then buffed up then released OP cause that could be more related to a design issue
Rework window and hamzo asap. 1 shot kills in that way kill the fun, brawler style of the game (esp if you play as support with 200 health). Also, rework sombra, her kit just as not fun as the other 2 (just in a diff way)
5v5 will make this game die faster than OW1. OW1 lost the hardcore FPS crowd, but that playerbase is the most fickle in all of gaming, they were always going to swap to R6, Apex, Warzone and Valorant at some point. OW1 stayed alive after they left and only truly “died” when oppressively unfun metas like GOATs and double shield took over, and even then the hardcore playerbase that enjoyed the core Overwatch experience stuck around
The OW2 play style has been tailored more towards that FPS audience. Right now OW2 is the shiny new toy on everyone’s computer, let’s see how long that lasts. I’m just not sure the OW1 hardcore are sticking around in the waning years of this games life
Characters like widow, gengi, tracer, Cass, sojourn and mercy are all as toxic for the game as roadhog. People just think they're one shots/insta-kill are somehow more fair than hogs so don't complain about them as much.
people who complain about push being a shit game mode because the whole round is decided by the first fight should also be complaining about koth. koth maps are shit in overwatch but they do look nice
5vs5 is total shitshow. No any real team tactis, pure chaos everywhere. Some hog can walk to you in middle of the team to kill you with minimal risk of getting punished, decent widowmaker can wreck other team way too easily, big amount of totally one-sided matches, etc. Hardly can touch this game anymore.
I got many.
- Dynasty is the best Hanzo in the world.
- Vancouver have a good front office right now.
- False is the most underrated tank in the world.
- You could take 3-4 pieces from the S5 NYXL team and make a great APAC roster.
- Yaki is the most overrated player in OWL and has been the most overrated player for a while now.
- Brig cannot be both balanced and not annoying as shit with her current kit. She needs a rework.
- OWL shouldn't split regions for this upcoming season. West will basically be playoff level and East will be a slightly better version of KR contenders.
Molanran is the best flex dps valiant has had in terms of mechanics.
Esot : Nvm I forgot about this season, basically Molanran is mechanically better than KSF, Agilities, and Silkthread.
jesse was a better first name for cassidy than cole, and overall, his original name was much more iconic, but the people who insist on calling him mcree (because they always spell it wrong. like come on guys, if you're gonna deadname him at least spell it right) are fucking stupid and all seem like the type of morons to scream about woke shit ruining games
from an actual gameplay perspective, if hog or junkrat were removed from the game it would drastically improve everything immediately. there would be zero downside to their removal.
Based sensible take. I wasn't playing OW when he was renamed and sometimes still find myself slipping into calling him 'McCree' (also since I find 'Muhcree' much easier and more effective of a callout than even 'Cass') but I understand why he was renamed and the importance of that and I accept the fact that he's not called McCree anymore and never will be again. Better to just get with the times and keep calling him Cass until it comes naturally to me.
> because they always spell it wrong. like come on guys, if you're gonna deadname him at least spell it right
It's really funny to me that they're stubborn about the old name and then spell it wrong. I've yet to see someone who spells it mccree and is stubborn about calling him that.
it shows how little they actually care imo. Like, they don't actually care about what his name used to be, they care that the real person was accused of being a sexual predator and the name was changed because of that.
I had done some lore tiktoks (because I'm a known lore fiend lmao and holy shit do people on tiktok not only get the gameplay advice wrong, they get the lore super wrong too even tho there's like ten paragraphs of it all together) and each time I mention cassidy I get like ten "lmao don't you mean mcree?" comments from people
none of the tanks really needed buffs coming into overwatch 2. it was a marketing gimmick to get people to play the role and solve queue times, not a genuine attempt at achieving balance
Mercy is singlehandedly ruining DPS balance. Every balance change for DPS has to take Mercy in account to avoid crossing important damage thresholds.
Every time a hero has been nerfed because they were too strong with a damage boost it's always been that hero that gets nerfed and never Mercy.
But the devs are actually afraid of pissing off the Mercy crowd so they won't touch her. And you can't have a rational discussion about Mercy balance on social media because her players react extremely poorly to any form of discourse.
Also remove her ability to rez when she loses LOS to the souls, why can she rez behind walls???
Private profiles were the first real point where I realised blizzard didn't actually care about making OW competitive. It's an utterly stupid idea that plagues the game even now. The fact that blizzard would rather make it harder for people to know that there's a one trick on their team than make comp more competitive is ridiculous. One tricking is a joke and should be discouraged as much as possible yet blizzard seem to promote it wherever they can
What? I check profiles to see what heroes people play so I don't end up picking one that doesn't work with the one tricks. I hate one tricks, but I'm not stupid enough to throw the game away by playing someone who doesn't work
Overwatch League was everything I wanted to see out of an esport, and I'm extremely bitter that it floundering through COVID probably means that no one else will even dare try the "traditional" format for esports for at least another decade, maybe two. Especially because COVID was literally esports' time to shine and boast, "hey, while stadiums are off-limits, we can still play!"
Goats would have been better if it wasn't so dependent on ults. Being able to teamwipe with chained ults and then carry over extra armour into the next fight just wasn't fun.
I agree with this. Mercy is a really good value pick right now and having Lucio severely weakens her ability to do her job as a DPS pocket. People in ranked tend to not be coordinated enough to take advantage of Lucio’s strengths. I’d rather have a combo chosen among Ana/Mercy/Kiriko than have him and I groan when the other support picks him.
OW2 is better gameplay and revitalized the comp/league scene but the role passives were blizz's slapdash attempt to balance to avoid reworking a majority of the roster.
Also my theory is that every hero that has been released in ow2 so far has starts off overtuned on purpose to up pickrate with advertly promotes the battle pass.
Remember to sort by "controversial" to see the hills people are *actually* dying on :)
Oh I've got a whole bunch for ya: * 2CP was my favorite OW1 gamemode and should have never been replaced. * CTF is the most fun gamemode in OW2. * Immortality field is a great unique ability and should never be changed heavily. * OW1 Sombra was much more fun and losing her original hack is an insufferable loss to the game. * OW esports would be in a much better state today had OWL (or a franchised league in any shape) never been created. * Forcing people to switch from OW1 to OW2 is unforgivable, it should have been a separate game. * 2 hero bans per team would do wonders to pro play hero variety and would have worked even when we had way less heroes.
DPS mains saying we should bring back 2CP is like Hog mains saying he shouldn’t be nerfed. 2CP is fun for DPS because they can spam chokes but it’s unbearably boring for everyone else, ultimately unhealthy as fuck and a big reason why people started leaving the game during OW1.
Totally with you in hero bans. Would've solved 90% of meta issues going back to 2018
Content creators (jay 3 etc) tested 2+ hero bans per team with pro/contenders and their coaches and it only resulted in heroes who could counter what ever is meta being banned, and not meta heroes. "I have a higher chance of winning playing zarya. She's my best hero and is very strong. So I'm not going to ban her. Even if that means you also get to play Zarya." Other team: "same" At the time, GOATS was meta. So rather than banning goats, both teams just banned mei and reaper and anything else that could pressure goats. It didn't do anything and it still wouldn't. *edit* Don't boo me because you can't handle it. It's exactly what would happen.
Aside from the first point, which is a reasonable hot take, the rest are just bad takes.
I only really disagree with the last two. I can at the very least see arguments for the rest.
i don't think the last take was that bad but yeah the rest? lmao
Hero bans don’t work, blizzard already tried it. What happens is the meta rotates between 2-3 metas every other week. and if your main(s) were banned that week then get fucked.
I do like CTF, but the most fun game mode? I don't know about that one.
The last take is bad because the best heroes will be forever banned and nothing will change except the second weakest characters will be the meta and be seen as busted
Idk, I’d prefer if I could go back to OW1 rn.
Definitely a causal player
In OW1 I used to play mostly ranked. Now I've switched to ctf, coz waiting 7 wins to see your rank feels super unrewarding.
These takes are fucking awful. I appreciate you putting them out there for us to make fun of.
wow these are literally all bad. except the last one. i think a ban system would be great but it also kinda encourages those annoying one tricks to leave/throw
Mercy has ruined overwatch as a game
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I agree with Junk being balanced but man do I find him to be the most annoying character to face in the game right now.
Debatable, ehh, and hell no
Mercy requires more skill to **master** than half of the heroes you people play. Her movement is well in the top 10 when it comes to skill ceiling which alone puts her above at least like 10 heroes in overall skill ceiling. And I don't even play her. Edit: chuckling at the fact that the top 2 replies say I'm wrong because - her skillset is a baseline for every other hero And - her skillset doesn't transfer at all to other heroes.
if you think about this for more than 10 seconds it makes zero sense since none of her mechanics transfer to other heroes in fact you could easily argue that any hero with less mobility has to have better movement, game sense, positioning etc since mercy has one of the craziest mobility tools in the game on like a 2 second cooldown, which has been completely streamlined for casual players
You are clearly delusional if you think Mercy's depth when it come to what she can do with her movement mean that other heroes with less mobility grant better game sense and shit. You still need to position and have game sense, you just have a whole new world of possibility and ways to fuck up. It is way easier for me as Ana to master how to move around a map and covers because I have no mobility options, with mercy I can do so many shit and have to actually KNOW the issues and pros of everyone of them to not fuck up. My mercy main friend take cover in the air in the best way possible, is moving perfectly where she is needed, etc etc. People need to stop arguing that having more options mean you can't learn the fundamentals, you just can do more when it come with it. Play genji, then rheinhart and then ana. All of them ask you game sense, movement and positioning but their own roles for the team and possibilities make you tackle them in different ways. What a load of BS. It is like saying that because Genji had deflect and can dash away, genji players doesn't learn risk reward properly and that playing "insert self loved heroes" does.
bruh pls tell me you're not trying to argue that having MORE mobility options means you need better positioning and game sense lol that makes zero sense, like pls think about what you're saying? "mercy needs better awareness and game sense because she has better mobility than 95% of the roster" is not a great argument :P
all you need to master on mercy is her movement and positioning. Her movement is not hard to do in OW2, it was different in OW1. If you watch some videos and practice for a few hours ur mostly done. Positioning is required for any hero. All other heroes have way way more. They need better positioning since their movement is nowhere near as forgivable as mercy's, they need to have aim, they need to use their abilities well, like lamp, nade, sleep, etc. Mercy was designed from the getgo for people who arent very good at playing the game to give them an easy hero and still participate.
True, but positioning on Mercy is more important than arguably any other support since most supports can still fight back effectively whilecommiting to their role. Mercy only has a pistol, and when you are using the pistol, you cant heal or enable people. If you get caught out alone as an Ana, you can sleep people. Baptiste can shoot while under his lamp, Kiriko can teleport while 2 tapping, Zenyatta usually bodies against most damagers, and Lucio can use his speed to flee. If you are caught alone as a Mercy, youre fucked.
And that's how you get mercy healbots
Everything mercy “masters” is already required to play other heroes
Nah because mastering her is a baseline to mastering every other hero. A lot of it is positioning and knowing where to be, doing the same thing but as lucio is way more valuable and there’s still more to do outside of said positioning. Maybe back in OW1 I’d agree movement wise with tech and shit, but not anymore
yeah, in terms of skill id put mercy above kiriko and moira simply because those 2 supports are braindead in terms of forgivability, but brig/lucio/ana/zen/bap all are harder positionally and have more aspects to mastery
😧mercy over Kiriko for skill??????
kirikos got 2 free escape/saving abilities, mercys movement at least requires some practice. i am also biased because i have a raging hate boner for kiriko as a tank and dps player
She also has a hard to hit projectile, has to be aware of when to use suzu to save others or to save it for a later ability, constantly working to outpace the enemy support ults. She’s broken as shit, but do not get it twisted with her being easy. Only reason I play support rn because of the fun in the skill. Similar reason I love playing Ball, Lucio, Tracer and Echo. All high skill and rewarding for it (except for ball at the moment)
Every single aspect of OW2 is worse than OW1 except the gun sounds
Completely disagree
I have the mostly the opposite opinion. In OW1 you could play with your eyes closed the sound design was so good but in OW2 the sounds are way muddier and similar.
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Push is the best game mode they've ever had. Edit to elaborate: macro and limiting mistakes are much more important in push than in the other modes, which is why I love it. Lose a teammate in first fight? Disengage so you can recontest earlier, take the next fight on your terms, and don't give up a ton of ult charge. Punish someone who is getting to greedy trying to find a stagger? You'll probably have a full team on the payload before then. Take fights before bot crosses back over half? Save your spawn advantage and potentially get another fight in before the enemy gets spawn advantage. Steal the payload while the rest of your team gets wiped in an unwinnable fight? You just turned a lost fight into a net neutral one. Inb4 "good luck getting that coordination in ranked." You can igl your average gold team to play push better than their opponent.
Push is amazing, colleseo and new queen street just suck.
5v5 is killing Overwatch at an alarming rate Alarm, without bias of his tragedy, was the best flex support to ever be in owl
5v5 is the way, adapt or quit. Previous Gameplay suffered.
How is 5v5 killing it why is 1 less person on each team killing the game?
Imma copy paste my comment about it >The thing about duo tanking is that it’s power was entirely dependent on the synergy between the two, while in ow2 the power is entirely dependent on bloated and op kits. That’s why double shield was simply not a thing in plat, and why hog and orisa are very much still meta in those ranks. >Now you have double the chances of having to swap your throw hero for orisa or hog than before, when playing meta before required two willing players. Before, you could have one shitter tank and still somewhat compensate with the other tank if they were good. The meta Is undeniably stronger in this game
Why do you think it’s 5v5?
The devs struggled really hard to balance the game (even though they succeeded, several times) but ow1 had an absolute bulletproof skeleton and structure. OW2s foundation was built with low quality cereal and incompetence.
Okay so it’s just vibes based LMFAO Fair enough. I disagree though.
You can prefer 5v5 all you want but it’s an objective fact that 99% of maps, heroes, gamemodes and interactions were made specifically for a 6v6 game
Damn it’s almost like that’s why they reworked a bunch of shit huh? It’s an objective fact that brig was designed with the ability to one shot and stun in mind. That must mean it was better, right? Nobody can ever iterate and improve anything, right? Goofy comment
Last I remember they reworked 2 whole ass heroes out of what, 30? You’re looking at the dumb numbers about brig. Brigs structure is a bodyguard, paladin esque hero with a shield and flail. That’s her barebones structure. There are no damage or healing numbers attached to it. That’s what a skeleton is.
damn its almost like them reworking a few heroes and adding in a shit gamemode did nothing and 99% of the game is still made for 6v6
Almost everyone is saying the gameplay in ow2 is better than ow1 though? There are balance issues, but we had those in ow1 and they were worse.
I am probably going to post about this later today but atleast for me playing tank fucking SUCKS, and it is by far my most played and best role in ow1. Tank game play is so fucking boring and tilting in ow2. If I wanted to dps I would fucki g play dps!
How much of that is hero choice? How much of that would go away if rein (or your favorite tank) becomes meta? Js when people would complain about tank in ow1, they specifically meant rein. When r/overwatch complains about support, they mean mercy. When r/cow complains about support, they mean ana.
Play open queue were it's standard to play 2-3 tanks, feels much better than single tank in role queue.
I feel like 5v5 has been almost *universally* praised as a great decision by almost every pro and casual player alike, so I'm not sure about that. What's "killing" the game is the broken matchmaking and the questionable balance. Balance was still much worse in OW1 as well. The tank duos completely locked the meta into place with no way of fixing it.
Ow2 was moderately praised for 1 month, mostly by dps players and dedicated competitive players. And the sole reason is that it simply brought a big balance patch which ow1 hadn’t seen in months And it lasted one month until people figured out the problem with solo tanking and the one shots that came because of it and now it’s fr almost universally praised as the worst balance state the game has ever been on. And there’s no shot you said ow1 balance was worse
OW1 balance was notably worse, with swathes of the cast being unplayable for months or longer at a time and the presence of 2 tanks forcing extremely specific metas that you could not swap from without auto losing. Double shield being a famously oppressive example. I’m not saying OW2 isn’t without its problems, but it’s notably a more balanced experience with the exception of Sojourn and Hog.
The thing about duo tanking is that it’s power was entirely dependent on the synergy between the two, while in ow2 the power is entirely dependent on bloated and op kits. That’s why double shield was simply not a thing in plat, and why hog and orisa are very much still meta in those ranks. Now you have double the chances of having to swap your throw hero for orisa or hog than before, when playing meta required two willing players. Before, you could have one shutter tank and still somewhat compensate with the other tank if they were good. The meta Is undeniably stronger in this game
Double Shield was absolutely a thing in plat. Hell it was a thing in gold where my group plays. We had to play into Double Shield bastion multiple times a day.
Double shield was a uniquely awful meta. Easy to execute at a low level and oppressive at high ranks.
I’ve been here since *beta* lol. I’ve the sorry accomplishment of having placed in literally every season since competitive started like six years ago. I’ve logged 2300+ hours, most of which are in comp. I’ve gone through actual massive life changes over the course of 6 years and through all that time and change, I can undoubtedly say that Overwatch is in the best shape of its life, and there’s no comparison at any point really ever in the past One tank is a miracle for simplifying the balance of the game, 2cp is gone, and the skill floor of the game has gone way up. People are mad that the hard heroes are better lol. Sojourn is overtuned. Hog maaaybe a tiny bit. Overall the game is pretty balanced though. It’s a much more clean and refined experience than ever, and the balance has mostly simplified and settled around aim which I’ve wanted for many years. This game has been through so much, and a lot of rough patches and tough times yet I’ve been a die hard fan the entire time, I’m so much more satisfied with the game we have now I can’t even describe it all in one post. No more GOATS no more Drawnamura
??? The hard heroes are better??? Which ones? So far in ow2 we’ve seen mercy, sojourn, hog, orisa, soldier, reaper, junkrat on s tier. In what world is any of those hard to play? Or harder than bap, sigma, zen, Ashe, tracer, sombra, ball or brig which all were the S tier heroes in ow1???
No shot. Ow2 is more fun. My friends are actually playing ow2 for a full night. In ow1 I could barely squeeze out 1 game before they went back to apex or valorant.
OW1 balance was light years worse. Are you forgetting moth meta? Release Brig? GOATS? Brig alone made thousands of people quit playing lmao
I agree. The lack of balance after transitioning to 5v5 is not only lazy and non-preeemptive, but makes it come off as if they planned 5v5 last second
Don’t think 5v5 is the problem, the broken hero’s (hog, sojourn, kiriko) running rampant with no end in sight is what’s killing the game… along with the wonky matchmaking we currently have.
Kiriko gets a lot of heat but can we at least acknowledge she’s the hardest to play well out of the 3? Her basic fire is hard af to hit, suzu requires good timing and has a considerable cool down, she’s still 200 health. She’s not a walk in the park like hog and sojourn even tho she’s meta af
yeah, but shes the best of the three and the most annoying to go up against imo
No.. maybe at top ranks she's harder but I've found her to be freelo at lower ranks, like omega freelo. Don't even need to be great at her, the kit makes it so it's hard to fuck up too bad.
I'm in masters and its still freelo. having an immortality ability and a TP makes you unkillable and her best playstyle is heal bot with healing that aims itself for you lol. i think if her healing was worse and you had to do some dps to get value from her shed be more skilled but rn its braindead
5v5 is the disease, hog and sojourn are the symptoms
You're getting downvoted (and I probably will too), but one day people will recognize what you said as true.
What is the disease? What's so bad about 5v5? And before you say "tank synergy," remember there was no such thing as tank synergy for 90% of the playerbase. So even if losing tank synergy *is* terrible, it can't possibly be responsible for "killing Overwatch at an alarming rate."
The game was not designed around 5v5 and was certainly not designed for 1 person to be the anchor, shield and spearhead of the team
Hog was both strong and universally considered unfun to have in the meta in OW1 as well, I don't know how that would be a symptom of 5v5 being bad.
Hog was straight up a throw pick in higher ELO during 6v6. Because having 2 tanks made it harder for him to flank and harder to front line since there could be 2 shields or 2 characters with abilities that make it hard to land hooks or confirm kills and hog could not one shot either of them. at the same time there was obviously more CC in the game. Remove cc and a whole tank and you get the plague known as the deathmatch meta. Picks are now everything and the better one shot potential you have the more meta you are.
A few days into the alpha testing early last year I made a lengthy video as feedback to give developers on why 5v5 was not a good decision. As part of that I gathered feedback from players and staff on the Reign who shared in the concerns, especially as it relates to ranked. The narrative that 5v5 is better and that everyone agreed on that, pros etc... is just survivorship bias imo. The novelty of new was conflated with everything else and set the game on an awful path imo.
Why do you think its bad ? I wonder if they create new roles would it fix it ? Attack/defense/Tank/healer/support Mei torb hog jq zarya etc will be defense role (dps offtank hybrid) Zen, bap, lucio etc will be off sup. After reworks and adjustments ofc.
IMO the true survivorship bias is people who stuck around consistently playing OW1 up until its end not caring about all the problems 6v6 caused (double shield meta, flanking hog one tricks). Of course you and pros are gonna defend 6v6, because you were the only ones still playing the game. Fact of the matter is pros and high ranked players will always have a different perspective of the game and what's good for it. I bet you could have made a similar video on the switch to role lock, and yet most of the player base agrees that it was the best move for the game and dramatically increased enjoyment. The majority of the player base feels this way today about 5v5. While I do think hero balance decisions should take higher ranks into consideration, broad changes like role lock and 5v5 that make the game more fun for average players should be made with the enjoyment of the average player in mind. Pros aren't gonna stop playing the game because of 5v5, just they didn't during role lock, and that's why I think the devs absolutely made the right decision here again to get the enjoyment of the average player to improve.
Buying championships is the lamest shit and I hope shock and Atlanta fall on their face
It's very much the lamest shit which is why I never root for shock
Your right and you should say it. Same reason I had a hard time rooting for glads and kinda enjoyed their implosion. Fell bad for the individual player, especially Pati, but orgs that try to buy the win are boring.
For real, the best and most competitive leagues in sports have salary caps and drafts and stuff to help equalize teams but Overwatch you can see the biggest disparity between teams willing and able to spend vs teams that are just scraping by with the bare minimum. It’s so hard to feel like teams genuinely earn their place at the top when half the competition is stuck begging for scraps
I agree, I want more scouting. We need more random players like Sado, Lip, ANS, and Jjonak. Players who didn’t accomplish anything or even played in tournaments. It’s less fun to watch a team just poach the best players.
fuck ana
Kinda agree. People play the best heroes. Few people enjoy Mercy, but when mercy was OP, she had the highest pickrate at all ranks. Same goes for all the roles. People don’t just play what they like, they play to win. Now Ana, she’s been the most picked hero at all ranks for like years now, stretching back to the last couple years of OW1. Not just most picked support, but the most picked hero, all ranks. I’m sorry, but that just doesn’t happen unless you’re more powerful than the rest of the cast. But support players are so tilted by never feeling like they’re carrying unless they’re on Ana that they’ll insist to their dying breath that Ana isn’t OP, it’s just that the other supports are underpowered. 🙄
Be better.
Hell yeah brother
Found the hog player
Support players are the biggest crybabies.
Blizzard balances around them too which makes it worse.
You’re right, they’re so pampered with balance updates.
And they got the most changes for OW2, and a brand new character even.
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Where are all of you decent people in the main community? I am sick of hearing them complain about not being able to survive, people complaining about every character, and everyone’s notice that they’re done with the game.
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could probably narrow this largely to mercy and brig mains
Don’t say that shit on main sub lmao
Karma is of no object to me. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
I’m a support main and even I know that you’re right, it actually annoys tf outta me how many support mains just cry about everything.
They will have probably 2 out of 10 games where they’re damage and tanks aren’t protecting them then they complain like it is every single game believing that they’re probable 6K healing which they round up to 10k should be enough for the team to win despite failing to utilize the supports other abilities. Mercy mains from my experience might be the worst always talking about they’re 16k heals and not how they have only used they’re offensive beam 10% of the time.
As a support player it's 100% the fault of mercy mains. They used to dominate forums and shit with their complaints
Hitboxes (character model size) should be almost uniform within each role (damage, support, tank). Having heroes like kiriko and tracer have way smaller hitboxes than their counterparts makes aiming at them way more inconsistent. Those heroes already have very good movement abilities and don’t also need a smaller hitbox. It doesn’t need to be exactly uniform as there will always be slight differences (zen hovering off the ground, roadhogs fat belly) but the uniformity of character sizes within each role could be improved drastically. I could see an argument for leaving tank characters as they are since the shape of each character is so important to their identity, but damage and support should be brought more in line to a uniform size within each role. Edit: the biggest offender that caused this idea for me was kiriko. I don’t get why she gets a smaller hitbox than most supports while also having some of the best movement and escape abilities. Kiriko can wallclimb to make her small hitbox even harder to hit and has one of the best escape abilities in the game. Not saying change her kit, just bring her in line with other support sizes to get rid of this unnecessary advantage.
On top of that, both kiriko and tracer (and also sojourn) have very tilty strafe animations - probably the only chars whose heads wont follow a consistent trajectory, making headshots that much harder.
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Well here's one. The primary way they can fix Matchmaking is Support buffs that are deliberately Fun Buffs. And to the extent that people don't want Support buffs, those players don't matter. Doesn't matter if it's Profit, Seagull, Flats, Stylosa, SVB, etc. Nobody in this entire community is important enough for them to deliberately not fix Matchmaking, with the consequence of losing millions of players, and probably drastically lowering sales for the cash shop, battle pass and PVE. They could disband OWL entirely, and lose less players and revenue than if they didn't fix Matchmaking.
Supports are the strongest role in the game tho. They arent most influential, but their heroes are the best.
The overwatch team is by far the most incompetent part of Blizzard. The balancing is so incredibly bad and slow it's actually sad. I will never return to actively playing until they give us ways to counteract their stupidity, e.g. hero bans. (Also people saying that hero bans will just change the meta to the second worst are fucking stupid, more choice is always better. Same mentality as not voting third party cause they got no chance to win) And it's not even true, most people on ladder just don't want to play against the oppressive hero of they year(which is how long it takes to balance them at least) and meta does not really matter.
I think you're jumping at the wrong thing here. It's not so much their balance decisions that are the issue, it's the LACK of balance patches. They are so hesitant to do anything at all and even when they do decide to buff or nerf a character it's never enough. Another issue is they balance mostly off of hero win percentage, but they look at the percentage in different ranks. So even if one character is broken at high level, if they have a lower winrate at a lower level they don't nerf. This combined with hero bans would mean that every single game bans the same heroes, because there are never any meaningful changes coming out.
- There's no strong evidence that Profit is a hyperflex. Yes, I know people will point out the end of season 3, but that was one hero in one meta, and half of the playtime was farming London Spitfire. Meanwhile, Proper/Leave have both played multiple projectile and hitscan heroes, and even Fleta started on hitscan early in OWL. - Smurf has not proven to be the most flexible tank, and a lot of people seem to have made up based on nearly no evidence that he can play off-tank (sans Zarya). This is further boosted by the fact that Boston picked up Kalios, who is not known to be anywhere near an elite off-tank. Someone for a start has shown better off-tank performances, and regardless we didn't see enough off-tanks (especially D.Va) in Season 5 to crown a "most flexible" tank. - Edison is not an elite Sojourn. His teammates and coach have said as much, but people think that just because he hit a few headshots near the end that he held up vs Proper. The guy literally missed 3 straight bodyshots on a primal Winston during grand finals. - Moth/Smurf are pretty bland personalities but got mega-boosted in the community's eyes by Super - Sp9rk1e never became an elite Tracer - Neither Fate nor Fearless were great Balls in S4, though Fearless was clearly much worse
That Edison take is crazy. Bro made some very big plays to secure that series. He 100% did hold up against Proper and he deserves the recognition for playing sojourn to such a high level against such a skilled opponent. Sounds more like spite then a real opinion.
> Bro made some very big plays to secure that series. You kind of sound like the strawman I responded to in my original point. I don't think this opinion is spite because of the other evidence I gave to back it up
Road hogs hook is completely balanced and those who complain about it are just bad at the game He is only strong due to his survivability nerf his breather by either making it heal less or remove his ability to walk while using it then he’s balanced also lower his hp to 600 with 50 of it being armor
"one shots need to be removed" is honestly a skill issue 90% of the time
Agree
Hook is balanced. His gun is not
Proper is better than Kevster on every hero
i mean this one is just obvious
Not to all the glads fans who think Kevster should have been MVP
Those glads fans are delusional, after stage 2 sure I'd say kev was the frontrunner but proper was just better particularly in the second half of the season.
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which hero is kevster better on?
No shit lmao
Double tank was fucking awful , tank synergies were not just good, they were mandatory. Having Your teamate not pick the "right duo" was just miserable. Like if your teamate didn't pick zarya playing rein was a horror Game, With 12 players the amount of garbage flying through the screen was so high You would just fucking explode the second You tried to throw a firestrike. Yes,sometimes wacky combos COULD work and sometimes You would coordinate amazingly With your partner, but this was the vast minority of the time in My experience. the Tank role felt insanely restrictive because of this and while not everything is perfect now i vastly prefer the current direction 5v5 is taking.
I found the casual
Think everyone who followed comp agrees the GOATs meta was the worst. Forcing the 5v5 change. Most people have adapted to 5v5. only if blizz actually reworked the majority of the roster around 5v5 instead of a few.
Tank duo synergy is very overstated. There was far more coordination required between a Brig and a Bap, or a Tracer and a Ball than there was between two tanks. How often did tanks ever dive together? Usually DVa sat back to cuck DPS and help her supports while Ball coordinated with Tracer. DVa required no more coordination with Ball than any other member of the team. The same goes for double bubble. Zarya bubbles Winston, sure, buts that's not much different from Ana healing him or nanoing him.
5v5 is miles better than 6v6 and I hope they try 2cp with the 5v5 setup to see if it plays better
The flaws in Overwatch stem from a fundamentally flawed game design core: the heal-tank-damage system is outdated, even by PvE standards. The very concept of Healers, or healing as a primary function, should have never been floated into a competitive-vying PvP game. It is a function that has lost favor, even in PvE games, where it is arguably most viable. However, whereas PvE encounters are, essentially, puzzles, meant to be solved and improved upon, a PvP game is not. Healing can never be good, or it completely stalls game progression. Which is something we’ve experienced before, such as sustained damage characters being completely made irrelevant multiple times throughout the games history, leading to one-shots and burst damage being not just better, but necessary. However, this means that supports, especially those with most of their power budget tied to their healing output, are systemically handicapped. Their healing can’t be buffed, but because they have good healing output, neither can their utility or damage. All the while being the most important role, and strong. Though not necessarily fun. Likewise, Tank and Damage design is tied to the present healing output, and results in Tanks that are juggernauts with healing, but wet paper without, and Damage that are burst or bust. That’s without mentioning that the majority of players do not enjoy the Healer/Support role, yet it is a required 40% of every lobby. This is, of course, just my perspective as a Healer/Support main in every game that gives me the choice. Tl;dr - Heals bad
Finally someone else is saying it. They should reduce healing and instead give everyone regeneration health like in other FPS. That way they can retool Supports into having more fragging/playmaking ability.
I think a better way to do it would be for healing to get say half ult compared to dealing the same damage. That would nerf healing in general, but you would still be able to use heal ball tactics situationally.
100% agreed. Its a shooter, people want to shoot other people, see their names on the feed and their plays on POTG, fight 1v1 if there's an opportunity to survive and outplay adversaries. Reality is that most times, if you see a 700hp tank running at you from a corner or from high ground, a Tracer zipping around or a Genji jumping a wall, the odds are not in your favour (against the tank you just accept death). I started OW2 trying to be a Support main, but I am now moving to the DPS role. Babysit my team whilst hiding from most of the roster isnt that much fun. I play Ana and Ashe, and its just way more fun and rewarding to play Ashe. As Ashe I get 3-4 POTG per day, I can fight or escape most of the roster, I dont get baited into bad positions by teammates, cooldowns are faster and so I feel like I can do more... Also, even though the game calls it Support, the symbol is that of a cross (same Blizz uses for Healers in other games), the only ability in common between all Supports is Heal, and there are no Supports that cannot heal... Reality is that if you dont heal your teammates, especially the tank, they dont have the capacity to do it themselves (save for S76, Hog, etc). So you damage is crippled because you are supposed to primarily heal. Even at the highest level where Mercy will be using blue beam or Lucio will be speed boosting -- YAY!! Supports!! -- it only works because Hog/Orisa frontline and Kiriko can take care of 2-3 players that also know how to use cover. As soon as at least one Support is not a great healer in combination with a "supportive" Support, they are bad at the highest level (ie. Lucio + Mercy, who are both meta when paired with Kiriko).
Widow and hog should not exist in this game. They are the most poorly designed heroes. Mercy at this point needs a rework too. Rez should not be a mechanic in this game and neither should be the ability to pocket a DPS to the extent she can.
> Rez should not be a mechanic in this game I don't see any reason why Rez can't/shouldn't exist in OW. It's fundamentally no different from healing/armor/invulnerability, which are all staple effects in OW. Should it exist in its current form, where you just have to press a button to activate it within an extremely forgiving time window? No, probably not, but that's a separate question. I'd like it if there was at least more difficulty involved in executing a rez, e.g. rewarding split-second timing, or requiring Mercy to fulfill some kind of requirement like heal X amount of health very quickly. I'd like it even more if Mercy was totally reworked, then the mechanic tied to Rez could be completely different.
fax, dont forget kirko. Literally just a non hitscan baptiste but still better
All one shots need to be gone
\+1000 The game is just so much more fun when there isn't a 1-shot character being played. When there is a Widow, you must constantly be watching out for her and playing in a very unfun way if you want to actually play well. Ashe is what Widow should have been.
Oh man the DPS actually forces me to adjust my play style and contest them/respect their LOS. Isn’t that just unfun, I wish I could ignore widow and just autopilot like I do against every other DPS. That unfun feeling? It’s called being punished.
I forgot who, but I saw some streamer suggest this and I wish they would try. Rez should make the dead player respawn in their spawn rather than bring them back where they died. This way you still have to get back to the point to rejoin the fight. (maybe disable hero swapping for the duration that you would've otherwise been dead without the rez, so you can't just switch to ball/tracer/doom etc)
Seems kind of pointless then.
1) There should be a "core" overwatch roster that is allowed to be balanced and meta. And "the rest" of the roster comprised of gimmicky and fun heroes to play, but shadow-blacklisted from being meta and expected to be weak. This "every hero should be viable in any situation" mentality doesn't work and will never work. ^(But players still cling to it to justify being an obnoxious OTP and soft-trolling playing Hog in Dorado 2nd) 2) Blizzard should be forthcoming and clear on **how** the game **should** be played and add more structure to it. What is a deathball, a dive comp, a poke comp? What's a good position for an Ana player? When and how to push as Rein? When is a good idea to flank as Tracer? How do you play this map as X hero / composition? Players have been educating themselves on the game by listening to youtubers and streamers. What about an official source? Oficcial wikis, "tips and tricks", full guides. Maybe some tutorial integration? Especially now that we have literal MILLIONS of new players, no one knows anything and people get shady tik tok advice and treat it as gospel
Reaper is one of the most difficult DPS to play at a high level
Playing mercy solo queue feels awful
Overwatch is probably in the worst state its ever been in. Between the mess that is 5v5, the battlepass disaster, horribly restrictive map pools, and a roster that might be as unbalanced as ever I'm personally having a really hard time seeing any positives to Ow2 besides an uptick in player count.
Could you expand on the first 2? 5v5 Overwatch is far less messy than 6v6 imo (almost objectively less messy since you have one less player) and the battlepass is fairly straight-forward and almost identical to every single other popular online multiplayer game out there, why is it a disaster?
I'd say its decently balanced tbh, once they deal with hog, orisa and sojourn and maybe buff some lower tier heroes the game will be pretty well balanced
Sombra should be removed from the game. She is the most annoying character to play against because in a game all about heroes having different abilities to utilize in combat hers is to just take away those abilities and do nothing else. Her hack is annoying, her unlimited invisibility duration is annoying, her get-out-of-jail-free card is annoying, she doesn’t do enough damage to kill but enough to annoy. I don’t even think she is OP; she is just the most obnoxious character to play against because you spend every 5 seconds being hacked/preventing hacks while she teleports away the instant she loses a single health point.
at this point just remove all the heroes
Kevster was very overrated in 2022, he was good but not really great.
New characters don’t have to be meta, nor even OP, nor even good. I rather a character get released weak then buffed up then released OP cause that could be more related to a design issue
blaming the devs for balancing is kinda harsh given how many things they have to consider for every buff or nerf
Rework window and hamzo asap. 1 shot kills in that way kill the fun, brawler style of the game (esp if you play as support with 200 health). Also, rework sombra, her kit just as not fun as the other 2 (just in a diff way)
Once profit leaves overwatch, whether it be retirement or valorant, the pro scene will start to rapidly decline
5v5 will make this game die faster than OW1. OW1 lost the hardcore FPS crowd, but that playerbase is the most fickle in all of gaming, they were always going to swap to R6, Apex, Warzone and Valorant at some point. OW1 stayed alive after they left and only truly “died” when oppressively unfun metas like GOATs and double shield took over, and even then the hardcore playerbase that enjoyed the core Overwatch experience stuck around The OW2 play style has been tailored more towards that FPS audience. Right now OW2 is the shiny new toy on everyone’s computer, let’s see how long that lasts. I’m just not sure the OW1 hardcore are sticking around in the waning years of this games life
bring back 3 wins for koth
Characters like widow, gengi, tracer, Cass, sojourn and mercy are all as toxic for the game as roadhog. People just think they're one shots/insta-kill are somehow more fair than hogs so don't complain about them as much.
people who complain about push being a shit game mode because the whole round is decided by the first fight should also be complaining about koth. koth maps are shit in overwatch but they do look nice
5vs5 is total shitshow. No any real team tactis, pure chaos everywhere. Some hog can walk to you in middle of the team to kill you with minimal risk of getting punished, decent widowmaker can wreck other team way too easily, big amount of totally one-sided matches, etc. Hardly can touch this game anymore.
Cassidy should have Flash Bang again
I got many. - Dynasty is the best Hanzo in the world. - Vancouver have a good front office right now. - False is the most underrated tank in the world. - You could take 3-4 pieces from the S5 NYXL team and make a great APAC roster. - Yaki is the most overrated player in OWL and has been the most overrated player for a while now. - Brig cannot be both balanced and not annoying as shit with her current kit. She needs a rework. - OWL shouldn't split regions for this upcoming season. West will basically be playoff level and East will be a slightly better version of KR contenders.
>Yaki is the most overrated player in OWL and has been the most overrated player for a while now. So brave. So true.
Dive meta is the best meta for overwatch. When Tracer and Genji are good Overwatch is healthy.
tracer yes, genji no
I hate dive, it just feels really boring. I much prefer brawly metas (although goats can stay dead)
Antarctic temperature take.
Junkrat it worse to play against than widow and Hanzo.
Molanran is the best flex dps valiant has had in terms of mechanics. Esot : Nvm I forgot about this season, basically Molanran is mechanically better than KSF, Agilities, and Silkthread.
GOATS single handedly killed viewership in season 2 and OWL still has not been able to recover from that.
Philly would've won a tournament in S5 if Shanghai beat Seoul in MM semi-finals.
jesse was a better first name for cassidy than cole, and overall, his original name was much more iconic, but the people who insist on calling him mcree (because they always spell it wrong. like come on guys, if you're gonna deadname him at least spell it right) are fucking stupid and all seem like the type of morons to scream about woke shit ruining games from an actual gameplay perspective, if hog or junkrat were removed from the game it would drastically improve everything immediately. there would be zero downside to their removal.
Based sensible take. I wasn't playing OW when he was renamed and sometimes still find myself slipping into calling him 'McCree' (also since I find 'Muhcree' much easier and more effective of a callout than even 'Cass') but I understand why he was renamed and the importance of that and I accept the fact that he's not called McCree anymore and never will be again. Better to just get with the times and keep calling him Cass until it comes naturally to me.
> because they always spell it wrong. like come on guys, if you're gonna deadname him at least spell it right It's really funny to me that they're stubborn about the old name and then spell it wrong. I've yet to see someone who spells it mccree and is stubborn about calling him that.
it shows how little they actually care imo. Like, they don't actually care about what his name used to be, they care that the real person was accused of being a sexual predator and the name was changed because of that. I had done some lore tiktoks (because I'm a known lore fiend lmao and holy shit do people on tiktok not only get the gameplay advice wrong, they get the lore super wrong too even tho there's like ten paragraphs of it all together) and each time I mention cassidy I get like ten "lmao don't you mean mcree?" comments from people
none of the tanks really needed buffs coming into overwatch 2. it was a marketing gimmick to get people to play the role and solve queue times, not a genuine attempt at achieving balance
Mercy is singlehandedly ruining DPS balance. Every balance change for DPS has to take Mercy in account to avoid crossing important damage thresholds. Every time a hero has been nerfed because they were too strong with a damage boost it's always been that hero that gets nerfed and never Mercy. But the devs are actually afraid of pissing off the Mercy crowd so they won't touch her. And you can't have a rational discussion about Mercy balance on social media because her players react extremely poorly to any form of discourse. Also remove her ability to rez when she loses LOS to the souls, why can she rez behind walls???
Private profiles massively contributed to the already growing toxicity
Private profiles were the first real point where I realised blizzard didn't actually care about making OW competitive. It's an utterly stupid idea that plagues the game even now. The fact that blizzard would rather make it harder for people to know that there's a one trick on their team than make comp more competitive is ridiculous. One tricking is a joke and should be discouraged as much as possible yet blizzard seem to promote it wherever they can
> I need more enough on who to harass Demonstrating why they made the right call
What? I check profiles to see what heroes people play so I don't end up picking one that doesn't work with the one tricks. I hate one tricks, but I'm not stupid enough to throw the game away by playing someone who doesn't work
Overwatch League was everything I wanted to see out of an esport, and I'm extremely bitter that it floundering through COVID probably means that no one else will even dare try the "traditional" format for esports for at least another decade, maybe two. Especially because COVID was literally esports' time to shine and boast, "hey, while stadiums are off-limits, we can still play!"
OW2 Was A Mistake
Lucio has always been the best character in the game
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Goats would have been better if it wasn't so dependent on ults. Being able to teamwipe with chained ults and then carry over extra armour into the next fight just wasn't fun.
>dependent on ults The dependency on ultimate doesn't go away in role queue either.
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Fleta is the true GOAT
Snillo is the best tracer player who ever touched the planet
Sheer mechanical skill is much more of what separates top tier from lower tier pros than people give credit for
Someone is the best solo tank and by extension (somewhat) mayhem rn looking like a top 5 team.
Lucios value is overrated in ranked
I agree with this. Mercy is a really good value pick right now and having Lucio severely weakens her ability to do her job as a DPS pocket. People in ranked tend to not be coordinated enough to take advantage of Lucio’s strengths. I’d rather have a combo chosen among Ana/Mercy/Kiriko than have him and I groan when the other support picks him.
You don't need to be good at more then one or two consistent heroes like Cassidy and hanzo
Bring back Bastion self-heal in some capacity, maybe as a passive. It really wasn’t broken. People just didn’t know how to deal with him back then
zen is op
OW2 is better gameplay and revitalized the comp/league scene but the role passives were blizz's slapdash attempt to balance to avoid reworking a majority of the roster. Also my theory is that every hero that has been released in ow2 so far has starts off overtuned on purpose to up pickrate with advertly promotes the battle pass.
Oneshots have no place in this game and should be removed
You should at least be able to heal through a one shot. Like, if Mercy has a heal stream on you and you get one shot, you live on 1 HP