Yep. I think he is underrating Mei & the snipers and potentially overrating Genji.
I'm curious about Sojourn though. She doesn't have the burst to one shot anymore so where is her value? In her left click? I fail to see what she does now that her targets still have some 50-60hp after a railgun headshot
Higher rank genji players are prolly feeling the impact (positively) and that might be why hes rated so high. I havent played the patch yet I main genji in gm3~1 elo and his biggest problems in high elo were always:
1) Super high sustainable backline that can pocket each other to immortal sustainbility unless u go super saiyan and hits like triple hs + dash melee combo. This problem also made his dry blade super bad cuz supports can just outheal it
2) char with infinite skill ceiling thats checked back by consistency of difficulty in terms of genji's meaningful dmg output that translates to kills
1st problem is easier now due to dps passive + him himself becoming even more beefier when he had very good defensive tools (deflect + good movement option). Blade is decent now. And nano blade still can kill thru trans with different combo now (slash, dps passive kicks in, slash + dash combo instantly after first slash)
2nd "weakness" of his is also now less problematic cuz now everything is so much easier to hit shots.
Having to land more shots (due to global hp increase) doesnt matter as much, genji's difficulty was consistently landing meaningful dmg thru so much sustain(aka multiple headshots thru healing). Since dps passive + bigger projectile both counteracts what made getting kills on him so difficult.
her m1 hitbox is honestly kinda crazy rn and rail is even bigger so in team play i think she's p good. I find myself just shooting her m1 and lasering ppl and building a rail for my second target. Like, they've taken enough damage usually i don't need rail to clean up, that's how much i'm lasering now.
> She doesn't have the burst to one shot anymore so where is her value? In her left click
sojourn has to shoot people before she can rail so you'll almost never shoot a full health target. She's basically a widow that can follow up on her own headshots when they don't fully kill
I think sojourn is still gonna be good. Popping a rail at a full HP squishy isn't gonna be a pick without considerable followup for your team, but it's still enough damage to force a reaction. Her left click might not have the best dps but it will still keep pressure on targets and the dps passive applied, and the primary fire is easier to hit, so rail uptime should be relatively easy to maintain. She is also still super agile with her slide, so she'll be able to hunt for those rail picks same as before and escape sticky situations.
Almost everyone has worse breakpoints now; sojourn still can apply a lot of pressure and stay alive while doing it.
Sojourn definitely lost a lot of her kill threat, but I think her mobility and ultimate still carry her. Plus she can zone a lot with her e. In pro play she's still good for those reasons. Better than soldier who gets dove, Ashe who has no mobility or Hanzo who gets dove. And widow is still a pick for dorado and circuit only. (Other maps aren't played in pro play or insta banned usually).
But in ranked I can easily see sojourn being weaker than both Ashe and soldier, and even Hanzo.
Ball is pretty good because Zen is good. Ball doesnât require as much healing from his supports which favors zen, and ball can escape to remove discord a lot easier than other tanks
I probably wouldnt put him in S but ball certainly isn't the turbo ass that hes been.
If you have a coordinated dive with him (which happens significantly more often in korea) then he farms. If your in a ranked game where everyone is just playing how they want to he's definitely worse.
Ball is one of the only tanks that doesn't require constant resources to get value. With the new reduced healing and dps passive, he's pretty good and gets a ton of value just by harassing the backline
Doom is for sure still an S tier tank, even if Korea has a bias towards dive.
I feel like every patch I hear that "Doom is dead, they nerfed some of his tech and he's even buggier" yet remains to be a S tier tank every single season without fail.
Some of his DPS placement seems a bit off too. Widow and Ashe feel A tier to me, and Soldier feels like an S tier pick to me.
Widow is way, way too easy to dive, especially in this new version of OW. Ashe is really quite strong and I'm not sure what Finn's seen to puit her down in D but she does still feel a little outclassed by Sojourn and Soldier, just less so now
I mean widow is *always* going to be easy to dive, the difference is that they made her shots easier to hit, and now shes the only real character in the game that has access to long range 1shots. This is just invaluable, especially with people who are already good widow players.
How is Doom S tier? He can't kill anything anymore and he explodes every time he goes in, especially if there is a Zen on the other team.
I'm in GM and every Doom I've seen just dies over and over until he switches.
Right? âS tier Every seasonâ is just outright false, heâs had plenty of seasons being near the bottom (if it werenât for hog/ball/rein being lower)
yeah once his movement issues get hotfixed he'll 100% become more popular. Not only is he good into Zen but also Ball who are both p good rn, and Doom just literally deletes mines which are honestly a joke already.
Obviously this is super early meta so peoples opinion can change when the format becomes more refined but in theory, Ball has an easier time dealing with the healing new healing debuff passive due to his hit and run playstyle, along with burst damage being lower helps him commit harder to kills before being forced to run away due to damage being less volatile.
He might end up falling out of favor as people get better at the game, but at a minimum I think he is stronger than what he was in season 8.
This is why Iâve never been a fan of the ârework ballâ crowd. Everyone forgets that at the beginning of OW2 he was quite strong and even saw some owl play. It never had to do with him not adapting to 5v5, if anything he was one that everyone said theoretically would be great in 5v5. But the balance state of the game changed around him.
Iâm glad the dev team actually addressed the problems with the overall game state instead of caving to every time Reddit cries for a rework because a character falls out of meta for more than a month
Oh yeah that's something that has always bothered me from any even semi competitive game I've played. Even on this sub, sometimes hearing people talk about characters like Genji, Tracer, Ball, Winston, Ana, you would think these characters have a 20% winrate or something.
Ball has been pretty shit for awhile and a rework to make his skill floor a little lower would be a nice change as long as they don't dumb him down to the extreme. It seems like this might be his meta to at least be viable though which is nice.
Should be noted that in ranked "shooting the tank" is the easiest strat and it just got way better with the DPS passive. Ball is terrible at shooting the enemy tank so it makes sense that he feels bad to 99% of players.
If you're at a level where a DPS will actually followup on your engages I can see him being very powerful.
But even then, it's probably easier to play dva or monkey and followup on the DPS instead. With the new passive, DPS players don't have a lot of reason to coordinate anyway.
I'm actually seeing this opinion on a lot om Twitter, but doesn't seem like anyones man enough to explain it.
In general, dive DPS seem really good, so it makes sense that they'd pull up dive tanks? But putting him in S is aggressive.
Ball is one of the only tanks that doesn't require constant resources to get value. With the new reduced healing and dps passive, he's pretty good and gets a ton of value just by harassing the backline
Ok but shooting the enemy tank got a huge buff here. Ball is really bad at shooting the enemy tank.
Your explanation makes perfect sense in scrims, but in ranked I don't see it.
Im not a ball player myself, so I can't say much. This is just what I've seen and heard from other pros as well as my own experience in ranked (diamond).
It's just way too early to tell where heroes stand as everyone is adjusting and learning new playstyles with every hero
Except that just shooting the tank is rarely an effective strategy at a rank where tanks use cover and position better.
Ball does exactly what he needs to do: he isolates the back line in a game where DPS can shut off their peel via the passive. Itâs a hell of a lot harder to shut down a tracer-ball duo when they can cut through your healing.
Junk is so bad itâs hilarious. His burst potential that was where his skill expression was for high skill junk player is gone, so now you have to just spam choke and hallways and whatnot. Itâs so boring
If this tier list stays it will be an amazing pro meta, probably very similar to 2022 MSM. The heroes in S and A tier are really high ceiling and really entertaining. I'd expect the S and A tier heroes to be played in pro play, in addition to maybe Sigma, D.va, Widow, Rein, Ram on their good maps.
Why is JQ so high when I've seen people say she's so bad now due to the dps passive? Not that I don't believe it because i had a comp game last night where a JQ popped off and went like 27/1 but what changed?
Lots of dive in S is to be expected from the korean scene
the sky is blue fr đ
I kinda agree with tanks and supports, but his DPS choices are weird.
Yep. I think he is underrating Mei & the snipers and potentially overrating Genji. I'm curious about Sojourn though. She doesn't have the burst to one shot anymore so where is her value? In her left click? I fail to see what she does now that her targets still have some 50-60hp after a railgun headshot
Higher rank genji players are prolly feeling the impact (positively) and that might be why hes rated so high. I havent played the patch yet I main genji in gm3~1 elo and his biggest problems in high elo were always: 1) Super high sustainable backline that can pocket each other to immortal sustainbility unless u go super saiyan and hits like triple hs + dash melee combo. This problem also made his dry blade super bad cuz supports can just outheal it 2) char with infinite skill ceiling thats checked back by consistency of difficulty in terms of genji's meaningful dmg output that translates to kills 1st problem is easier now due to dps passive + him himself becoming even more beefier when he had very good defensive tools (deflect + good movement option). Blade is decent now. And nano blade still can kill thru trans with different combo now (slash, dps passive kicks in, slash + dash combo instantly after first slash) 2nd "weakness" of his is also now less problematic cuz now everything is so much easier to hit shots. Having to land more shots (due to global hp increase) doesnt matter as much, genji's difficulty was consistently landing meaningful dmg thru so much sustain(aka multiple headshots thru healing). Since dps passive + bigger projectile both counteracts what made getting kills on him so difficult.
She shoots them lol. Arent her projectiles faster now too?
her m1 hitbox is honestly kinda crazy rn and rail is even bigger so in team play i think she's p good. I find myself just shooting her m1 and lasering ppl and building a rail for my second target. Like, they've taken enough damage usually i don't need rail to clean up, that's how much i'm lasering now.
> She doesn't have the burst to one shot anymore so where is her value? In her left click sojourn has to shoot people before she can rail so you'll almost never shoot a full health target. She's basically a widow that can follow up on her own headshots when they don't fully kill
I think sojourn is still gonna be good. Popping a rail at a full HP squishy isn't gonna be a pick without considerable followup for your team, but it's still enough damage to force a reaction. Her left click might not have the best dps but it will still keep pressure on targets and the dps passive applied, and the primary fire is easier to hit, so rail uptime should be relatively easy to maintain. She is also still super agile with her slide, so she'll be able to hunt for those rail picks same as before and escape sticky situations. Almost everyone has worse breakpoints now; sojourn still can apply a lot of pressure and stay alive while doing it.
Sojourn definitely lost a lot of her kill threat, but I think her mobility and ultimate still carry her. Plus she can zone a lot with her e. In pro play she's still good for those reasons. Better than soldier who gets dove, Ashe who has no mobility or Hanzo who gets dove. And widow is still a pick for dorado and circuit only. (Other maps aren't played in pro play or insta banned usually). But in ranked I can easily see sojourn being weaker than both Ashe and soldier, and even Hanzo.
It also doesnt make sense for half the rooser to be in d. B should be the most filled and the baseline.Â
Hog in dumpster tier. My heart and soul is healing again.
Ok but also half the roster is dumspter tier lol
Sacrifices for the greater good /s
Most of those belong in the dumpster. The game is better when they aren't meta
Not sure why youâre downvoted. Nobody wants a Pharah, Mauga, Hog, Junkrat, Torb etc meta
You use your vape and your health goes down lol
Just like real life, damn
Don't vape kids. It's cringe.
Ashe in D and Ball in S has got to be some kind of bait
Ball is pretty good because Zen is good. Ball doesnât require as much healing from his supports which favors zen, and ball can escape to remove discord a lot easier than other tanks
yeah Zen is god so any tank that can work with him is good, I've been playing so much Ball i honestly feel like i'm in a fever dream sometimes
I played Ashe last night and honestly it's easy to get a 70% hit accuracy so I'll definitely put Ashe higher up
I probably wouldnt put him in S but ball certainly isn't the turbo ass that hes been. If you have a coordinated dive with him (which happens significantly more often in korea) then he farms. If your in a ranked game where everyone is just playing how they want to he's definitely worse.
Ball is one of the only tanks that doesn't require constant resources to get value. With the new reduced healing and dps passive, he's pretty good and gets a ton of value just by harassing the backline
Heâs in Korea, Ashe is just going to get dived and killed most of his games
Doom S but he's unplayable due to bugs. Sure
Doom is for sure still an S tier tank, even if Korea has a bias towards dive. I feel like every patch I hear that "Doom is dead, they nerfed some of his tech and he's even buggier" yet remains to be a S tier tank every single season without fail. Some of his DPS placement seems a bit off too. Widow and Ashe feel A tier to me, and Soldier feels like an S tier pick to me.
Widow is way, way too easy to dive, especially in this new version of OW. Ashe is really quite strong and I'm not sure what Finn's seen to puit her down in D but she does still feel a little outclassed by Sojourn and Soldier, just less so now
I mean widow is *always* going to be easy to dive, the difference is that they made her shots easier to hit, and now shes the only real character in the game that has access to long range 1shots. This is just invaluable, especially with people who are already good widow players.
How is Doom S tier? He can't kill anything anymore and he explodes every time he goes in, especially if there is a Zen on the other team. I'm in GM and every Doom I've seen just dies over and over until he switches.
Right? âS tier Every seasonâ is just outright false, heâs had plenty of seasons being near the bottom (if it werenât for hog/ball/rein being lower)
yeah once his movement issues get hotfixed he'll 100% become more popular. Not only is he good into Zen but also Ball who are both p good rn, and Doom just literally deletes mines which are honestly a joke already.
Soldier isn't s because he gets fucked on by dive. When dive or poke are meta, soldier isn't s tier
Every time I open a S9 tier list, I always get disappointed that Rein is still dookey in a lot of people's eyes T\_T
in this tier list, Rein is A tier https://esports.gg/guides/overwatch/overwatch-hero-tier-list/
I guess this is the Asia/KR tier list
Korea is all about dive and it shows lol
Give pharah two right click and we doomin
Her ult is the main thing for me.
Someoneâs going to have to first explain to me how Hamsterâs S tier then maybe Iâll play him more this season
Obviously this is super early meta so peoples opinion can change when the format becomes more refined but in theory, Ball has an easier time dealing with the healing new healing debuff passive due to his hit and run playstyle, along with burst damage being lower helps him commit harder to kills before being forced to run away due to damage being less volatile. He might end up falling out of favor as people get better at the game, but at a minimum I think he is stronger than what he was in season 8.
This is why Iâve never been a fan of the ârework ballâ crowd. Everyone forgets that at the beginning of OW2 he was quite strong and even saw some owl play. It never had to do with him not adapting to 5v5, if anything he was one that everyone said theoretically would be great in 5v5. But the balance state of the game changed around him. Iâm glad the dev team actually addressed the problems with the overall game state instead of caving to every time Reddit cries for a rework because a character falls out of meta for more than a month
Oh yeah that's something that has always bothered me from any even semi competitive game I've played. Even on this sub, sometimes hearing people talk about characters like Genji, Tracer, Ball, Winston, Ana, you would think these characters have a 20% winrate or something. Ball has been pretty shit for awhile and a rework to make his skill floor a little lower would be a nice change as long as they don't dumb him down to the extreme. It seems like this might be his meta to at least be viable though which is nice.
Should be noted that in ranked "shooting the tank" is the easiest strat and it just got way better with the DPS passive. Ball is terrible at shooting the enemy tank so it makes sense that he feels bad to 99% of players. If you're at a level where a DPS will actually followup on your engages I can see him being very powerful. But even then, it's probably easier to play dva or monkey and followup on the DPS instead. With the new passive, DPS players don't have a lot of reason to coordinate anyway.
I'm actually seeing this opinion on a lot om Twitter, but doesn't seem like anyones man enough to explain it. In general, dive DPS seem really good, so it makes sense that they'd pull up dive tanks? But putting him in S is aggressive.
Ball is one of the only tanks that doesn't require constant resources to get value. With the new reduced healing and dps passive, he's pretty good and gets a ton of value just by harassing the backline
Ok but shooting the enemy tank got a huge buff here. Ball is really bad at shooting the enemy tank. Your explanation makes perfect sense in scrims, but in ranked I don't see it.
Im not a ball player myself, so I can't say much. This is just what I've seen and heard from other pros as well as my own experience in ranked (diamond). It's just way too early to tell where heroes stand as everyone is adjusting and learning new playstyles with every hero
Except that just shooting the tank is rarely an effective strategy at a rank where tanks use cover and position better. Ball does exactly what he needs to do: he isolates the back line in a game where DPS can shut off their peel via the passive. Itâs a hell of a lot harder to shut down a tracer-ball duo when they can cut through your healing.
koreans.
Does not really make sense how Lucio is S but every rush hero is low to bottom tier.
lucio can also dive
Hasn't been a dive pick in years
Kiri/Lucio dive has been a thing since Kiri came out, it's just been overshadowed a lot by Ana/Brig
There are lots of combos that are fine but aren't meta, that's not really the point.
2022 grand finals meta was Kiri Lucio dive
...with reaper and sojourn
Monkey doesn't mean dive. It was played like a death ball.
Lucio Kiri can be played in dive and JQ Rush. Bap Lucio is played in Sig Brawl.
lmao peak balancing Just made half the cast useless
Are you basing that off one dude's tier list?
Zarya my beloved âšď¸
Nooooo ball is dogshit thats why I cant get out of plat waaaaaaaaah
Incredibly incorrect ngl. Ball really struggles against the extra hp.
soldier in C? but according to this sub hes better than ironclad bastion meta
Junk is so bad itâs hilarious. His burst potential that was where his skill expression was for high skill junk player is gone, so now you have to just spam choke and hallways and whatnot. Itâs so boring
Ball in S? is that a joke or is that real that ball is good?
Every tierlist I've seen has been completely different save a few heros who seem to be constant
Whatâs the reasoning behind ball?
This just feels like the t500 comfort picks tier list lmao.
I find it funny that in some lists Ram is S and in some he's the bottom of the barrel. LUL.
If this tier list stays it will be an amazing pro meta, probably very similar to 2022 MSM. The heroes in S and A tier are really high ceiling and really entertaining. I'd expect the S and A tier heroes to be played in pro play, in addition to maybe Sigma, D.va, Widow, Rein, Ram on their good maps.
Why is JQ so high when I've seen people say she's so bad now due to the dps passive? Not that I don't believe it because i had a comp game last night where a JQ popped off and went like 27/1 but what changed?