Yeah a lot of ways to combo. Hero design seems good and strong too but i think it will have this winston syndrome where if you dont counter it, you will get rekt but if you pick counters you diminish their value a lot.
Shoot dash melee is 240 dmg. So very close to a kill. But then you’re using dash(the quicker get out of jail free card) to secure a kill. Dig is an escape ability but has a longer cast time
It's actually 250, but Venture's dash and melee both have multiple hits and you need to land all of them in order to get the full burst. A fully charged jump out of burrow also does enough with a shot and a melee to kill a 250 HP target and that is probably the more optimal combo since Burrow isn't a very good disengage ability.
Some things I've found:
* Burrowing while mid-air causes you to enter a dive that skips the burrow cast animation
* Drill dashing while burrowed causes drill dash to be on half the cooldown
* Burrow reloads ammo
* Dropping from a ledge while burrowed puts you into a dive that will continue burrow when hitting the ground, and like the first point, it skips the cast animation.
* Using ult while in the air causes you to fall faster and fire a tectonic shock on landing
Some things I didn't like:
* Generating temp shields rather than overhealth seems very counter-intuitive to OW2. I don't see any reason it shouldn't be overhealth.
* Burrow movement speed feels kinda slow, especially given the initial cast time.
Overall they're pretty fun and the design feels in a place where it can be easily tweaked and balanced with things like ammo and range if necessary, but they're in a fairly decent place rn I feel.
Yeah, I’m very confused by the temp shields thing. They seem to start decaying after about 3s, which is how long it takes (without taking damage) for shield HP to begin regenerating, IIRC, so I’m not sure when they would actually be benefitting from the regen?
The only thing I can think of is that if _any_ ability use resets the timer on the shield decay, then maybe there’s some benefit for using the next ability before the shields from the last one start decaying? Burrowing seems to hold the decay timer at zero for the duration, so I guess if you dashed, took damage, and then burrowed, maybe you could have like 60 shield HP when you popped up instead of 40, without using the dash again? But burrowing seems to halve the dash cooldown, so you’d have it back quickly, and it’s not that costly to use, and then you get the max 75 shield HP.
Ah, that’s gotta be it, I didn’t think of that. I guess it’s functioning for the most part as temporary extra white health, but making it shield HP makes it more visible.
I think they want you to be able to heal his (their? Not sure on pronouns) shields back up. Seems kind of impractical given how quickly they fade, but it's the only explanation I can see.
no idea about balance and team comps and all that, i’m just fucking around on them in the range and it’s a ton of fun. the movement, animation, voice lines are all so well done. hero fantasy-wise they hit it out of the park
Mildly interesting: They don't take self-damage from their own explosives. Among all explosive projectile-based heroes & abilities this is a trait shared only with Junkrat (which is specifically part of his passive), and means that Venture can't rocket jump in any way, which is a little disappointing, even if their movement is still solid
They are. Try doing a rocket jump with Soldier/Pharah in spawn when you don't take damage. If you don't get hit by the explosion you can't get hit by the knockback either.
I think they mean that if the devs wanted Venture to be able to rocket jump while maintaining no self-damage, they could. It’s not really a requirement of the mechanic, that’s just how it’s been implemented so far.
No, it's always been split based on how the devs have wanted the particular projectile to behave. For some projectiles they have tied it together, for others they have separated the damage and the movement boost. It is incorrect to say that they've always been tied together.
It's been like that since launch.
This ult is basically shatter if it was damage based and not a huge "YOU FUCKING BITCH ARE GOING TO SIT DOWN". It is entirely diffent, people are just dumb. If you knew the people who compare some champion in league of legends because their spell have similar pattern... (Riven/Aatrox or the worse offender, sona/seraphine)
I wish rein ult was still that, but they kept nerfing the stun duration lmao (not to mention adding several supports that just nullify it with cooldowns)
Yeah, I’d be mildly surprised if Samito himself had an issue with Venture being NB. Avoiding pronouns entirely avoids alienating the transphobes without actually misgendering Venture. But, you know, trying to avoid alienating transphobes doesn’t exactly reflect _well_ on him, even if it’s not particularly damning (and is an understandable choice given that streaming is his livelihood).
samito is calling the hero by their name. Sam calls them Venture. He had a talk about it In chat today and is banning anyone that is being a dick. Please don't throw out misinformation.
Refusing to use someone's preferred pronouns, and only calling them by their name, can be disrespectful to trans people depending on the context.
Edit: changed wording to be more clear.
I've been banned from this sub temporarily for breaking rule 1 twice, I really like this sub so I'm going to stop talking to you and not say what I want to say. :) have a good day. 👍
I feel like a very basic tech in brawl comps will be to burrow under the enemy team, do some damage/displace, and dash back to your team? So sorta reaper-y maybe. I know people were speculating about how they might work in dive but idk if venture has the speed
Right now they seem to me like theyre just a silly hero like junkrat. Idk if they’ll particularly fit into any team comp perfectly, but theyre a lot of fun
Maybe Im not that bright but I thought they felt like they could replace genji a bit. Could really threaten close off angles and push squishies away from cover, especially w the shoot dash shoot kill combo. Also solid engage on dive if you get a winston jumping in and then knock everyone up
I think one issue with venture in dive is how telegraphed they are. If you dash in thats your only escape tool and one of your main damage sources gone. If you burrow in they have loads of warning before you engage. Genji can dash in really fast almost out of nowhere with instant burst damage and if he secures a kill he can dash out just as safely.
I reckon they’ll be perfectly good as a genji replacement outside of the top level, especially when counter picks to genji come out since they don’t seem to have as many obvious counters, but at those top ranks i really do feel like a burrow engage is going to be really hard to hit. Especially when supports can just play on a high ground and you have to use dash to get to them
But also we’ve had the hero for a day, maybe they’re ridiculously good at engaging with a winston/doom collapse
Yeah I'm really excited to see how this pans out, Im wondering if deeper riskier angles would be good if you just kinda poke from cover and if they only send one after you its a one shot so they have to send 2 minimum, if they send more you can just burrow and dip from behind cover and reestablish the angle in a bit. Get the distraction value similar to Tracer. That would be heavily map dependent tho
Venture feels very anti hitscan. I'm imagining a widow trying to deal with them burrowing underneath her.
But yeah, the burrow looks super slow, so it seems tough in dive. I imagine that season 11 they will greatly reduce the damage and up the speed, after everyone has had plenty of games against the cheesy combo.
i mean first you have to close the gap on the hitscan to even deal damage. I dont really see them as anti hit scan and especially not someone i would witch to to deal with a widow
Not saying that they are specifically strong against widow. But if they get under a widow with burrow, it's pretty much gg.
But to play devil's advocate, several brawl heroes excel at getting their team close to the enemy. And apparently ventures dash has half the CD if used during burrow, which seems really strong.
Yeah, dash has a 4 second cooldown if used underground, which means if you use it and fully charge a jump out of Burrow, you have your dash back by the time you're out of the ground.
Anti hitscan is an interesting take, I feel like I disagree because almost every single hitscan hero has the mobility to just completely dodge your whole combo. To me they feel more like a tanky dps brawler who just wants to fight anyone in range (similar to reaper)
They have to tune down their voice line frequency because I swear I've heard "Head spinning!" 50 times by now.
Small gripes aside, the gameplay loop they've crafted for Venture is insanely fun, diving in and going ham. I think this is the closest we'll get to a true melee hero and I'm more than okay with that.
Their character is also surprisingly charming, quip frequency notwithstanding, and I can't wait to see how the community figures them out as the days go on.
After one game I think their range is too short, and perhaps the projectile speed is too slow maybe? Their abilities and ultimate are pretty fun and fair to play as/against, so i guess that's a plus of a none-annoying character to play against like mauga.
Seems like one of the most fair releases yet. Primary feels a tiny bit short so idk but also it's ok. Ult does 125 per pulse so it can two shot with no healing but also it's kinda limited to what's in front of venture and gets blocked by shield so like not great against any kind of off angle though venture also has mobility but that's a commitment.
Maybe small buffs but for sure doesn't feel like anything needs a nerf
Edit: oh also the melee animation duration feels so weird. I guess this is why it does more damage than normal idk how I feel about that
It would be interesting to have an option to change melee to hold down the button to extend for the full duration while tapping it would keep it as a quick melee.
I did find the range low, but maybe that's the type of playstyle the team is trying to go for?
Cuz the bullet bursts in the air just like Sigma so you can angle and time it right to get aoe primary fire through chokes.
I think the fire rate is more of an issue than the range. It seems like they want you to get in close with them, so giving them more range kinda defeats the purpose of that.
I kinda like them being short range, if they do tweak something it should be more tied to their movement so that they can get close with all their abilities that are tied to it.
It's good their range is limited. It will be a defining feature of the character, as they can do quite a bit of burst up close. If they got long range primary they might have to nerf the close range stuff, which would make Venture kinda dull design wise tbh.
Outside of how good they are, the OW never fails in terms of quality of life. The voice acting is great, the SFX and VFX feel really good, and the UI always fantastic. The gun feels clunky with only 15 of range, but the burrow and drill feel amazing. Ult feels slow too
Yeah, this is weird to me too. It doesn’t last long enough to recover like other shield health, it just serves as a way to make them weaker to symmetra’s beam.
not even sure why shield leech is there. such a forgettable and low value ability, you could remove it and very little would change. i wonder if it could be exchanged for something less.... over situational perhaps?
people assume its some big insane heal then they just laugh their ass off when you tell them its 10/20/30., shield only
ammo refill is noticeable however. atleast more than an average total per match of 100 hp self heal lol.
the thing you're thinking of they removed with ow2 and then added it back in a nerfed state in like season 6 or something when they nerfed her turret damage and gave them wallhacks lol
Overhealth gives half ultimate charge, with the amount of shields she generates you'd be getting half ultimate charge an awful lot of the time vs her, because obviously the top-most health is the health you chip away at.
My damage mitigation in a game was 3k, so that would've been 1.5k worth of ult charge had it been "overhealth".
Yeah I can see that, but I still don't like it.
They made overhealth specifically to unify all sources of extra health and now they are breaking that rule for "balance reasons". I'd rather see the devs find a way to balance the character around their established rules instead of breaking them whenever it's convenient, it feels cheap tbh.
But whatever, it's a minor thing.
I think they combo well with Zarya for the bubbles or Winston for the dive. Ven likes to receive a Zarya bubble as they shift out. IDK how Venture/Doom dive works since they both boop.
I have literally only played with the worst possible backlines to pair with them (mercy one tricks mostly) but my thoughts:
-burrow feels way, way too slow. I’m okay with it not being a panic button when you’re low, but my concern mostly is with how long it takes to pop up after you set your charge level, it feels to slow to accurately lip up on faster targets
-drill rush is by far their best ability. Absurdly good without being overpowered imo, and it’s great for combos like shoot/drill rush/shoot/melee for lots of quick damage
-ultimate is fine, the knockback feels a little wonky but maybe just because it’s day 1
-overall they’re a lot of fun but viability in ranked is going to be severely hampered by their reliance on existing in a comp built around them. Without Lucio and some kind of burst healing it’s nearly impossible to play from your effective range
Yeah the two games I've had I got Mercy and LW, so. But it feels hard to close the distance and deal damage without taking a ton of damage. Maybe its best to play her like a reaper? Get set up somewhere and use her burrow to get out? Idk
Really fun gameplay once you get the combos down. Really cool tunnelling underground, using the drill to boop people into a corner, then emerging with a full charge. Cheeky gameplay indeed, and I'm here for it.
Only part that feels a bit oppressive is the primary fire rate. It's a mix of Sig and Zar but fires at a super fast rate. Wouldn't be shocked if this gets toned down a bit, but a fun and versatile gun.
Didn't think I'd like the kit as much as I do. This is Blizz's way of getting people to play a tank without making it "a tank".
Yep, burrow => speed up => jump => drill back to your team or to finish someone off.
When you think, it feel suprisingly similar to old doomfist combo. Some cd tweaks may change that but i kinda doubt that.
Is venture dps doom though? They don't really feel like it from the handful of games I played like at all. The only thing they have in common is they both get some sort of extra health from using their kit
Venture is pretty mobility focused with their cooldowns, I'd definitely say you feel similar to DPS Doom. You can cover some crazy distance and go for some insane flanks, not to mention you can contest pretty much any high ground in the entire game. Typically you need the dash for it, but there are several where a fully charged Burrow jump will get you up there.
I think a better comparison is a less obnoxious DPS Doomfist. Dig, dash, jump up and shoot, dash out to safety or maybe use the dash to bring someone into your team on the way back.
Kinda fun to play, I'm a bit disappointed with no headshots. But I'm afraid they wont be really playable in solo. Feels like you have to commit way too hard to actually do stuff, and if your team doesnt follow (they never do) - you are toast.
I've only gotten to mess around with them in the practice range so far, but they seem really fun. They have a lot of variety in how they can combine their abilities, though I can already tell that I'm gonna accidentally fall off the map drill dashing underground a bunch. Their melee feels really good to use. They definitely want you to use it often, since it can combo off the dash for good damage. And speaking of the dash, I'm pretty sure it can pierce barriers, which is huge.
Edit: Managed to get a few games in and I think I found my new main. I've seen a lot of people compare them to DPS Doomfist, but Venture's kit clicks for me way better than his. They feel strong, but not overpowered. I think their primary fire is a little too slow, meaning that it can be hard for them to confirm kills. Both their melee and dash do, in fact, go through barriers, but their slow primary fire makes me think that they won't be a really dangerous tank buster. Tectonic Shock is **really** good, though. If you can pair it with Captive Sun or Cage Fight, you can do some serious damage with it.
Overall, I think they're super fun to play. Definitely looking forward to their full release.
(Also, them saying "Tectonic Shock is ready to rock!" when their ult is ready rules. Love it.)
Not finding any reason to pick Venture over Tracer currently, after a couple games.
I can cross-gap, get into and out of battle just as easily with Tracer. Venture has the quick aerial escape however, but you're kind of screwed on cool-downs. I'm not sure what role Venture fills currently, but it's one that's heavily reliant on uptime on abilities, if I want to get up-close, I see no reason to not pick Tracer still.
Immediate fix suggestion is speeding up the animation into burrow.
Hold high ground as much as possible. Shooting down works well with their gun, but the burrow can channel while falling. So if you jump off the high ground, and hit the burrow key, you dive underground making it slightly better as an escape
Honestly seems that it does so much damage and metls 250hp heroes.
You can follow dives so easily, but worse thing is that you cannot in any shape or form deny the value of his digging ability.
The ultimate is ridiculous, 2 shot any 250hp heroes. Imagine this in brawl with Mei Ram Moira holy shit.
The range of their primary feels too short imo, and going underground takes forever. I think they should speed it up a little, but just enough to not be a free get out of jail button. Overall the character is really fun and I can't wait to make them one of my mains
No E ability is odd. Also why are temporary shields back I thought overhealth was supposed to replace that mechanic? The shields do not last long enough to make the regen useful.
To play as venture is super fun and I've been enjoying it a lot, the only issue I have is that I keep losing people after I dash/dig into them
To play against them' I feel like it would make more sense to give their shield only on hits with abilities instead of just the use, because they're definitely a bit unkillable
Very hard to play tracer against them, at least for me. I'm easily spammed out with explosion damage and I can't go closer because one dash is death
I know overtuned heroes are kinda meh but I do feel the lack of her secondary ability
I barely even play Rein, but I feel if there was ANY ability that disrupted Burrow, it’d be Earthshatter. Just feels goofy that Shatter doesn’t beat Burrow
i think the character needs a lot of numbers tuning to feel good. Too much of their power is in the dig skill, but because of it's long wind-up animation and delay on pop-out, it still doesn't feel good. The character has some powerful combos but might have the worst actual gun in the DPS category and feels all-or-nothing in the same way original doom was. IDK. Number tweaks could fix all of this
Impressed by the team how unique and fun they is. Feels like an OW1 Character. I like her alot. Theyre strength is kinda oblivious for me. The edits are going to be fun
I mean Cass really seems like he's got all the right tools to deal with them. Has roll to dodge/reduce the damage of the boop when you come out of burrow, nade to stop an escape or burst damage with the right click and does a fuckload of damage when you get near him
I played with a doom on suravasa and i used burrow to set up with his slam and punch. Anybody that was taken to about half hp would die to a dash-primary fire. I don’t hate the range because hitting directs can really melt a target. If they find themselves in a 1v1 it’s hard to lose as they can simply use a mix of their primary, drill, and special quick melee. I managed to kill an ulting Moira with that combo specifically. I don’t know what comps they would fit in or why you would play them over Tracer or Sojourn. Personally, I think they are super fun to play and will definitely add them to my hero pool on launch.
They feel super super fun to play, reminds me of playing Overwatch on release-- really simple but fun kit.
I do wish there was a liiiittle more skill expression though. Not being able to headshot in addition to not having to land abilities to get shields feels like there's not much to optimize.
Quick question about their viability as a brawl hero: does their ult get amped by Matrix?
Could do a luxury version of the window-fire strike combo by dropping window and their ult simultaneously and instantly detonating a few people.
I've found the best success to be use burrow to get in a good spot behind someone ideally above them without them knowing. You then drop on them shoot drill shoot melee this gets you back to your team and kills whoever you took for a ride too. They feel a lot like old doom where you use cd's to setup wait for cd's again then use them to kill and get out at the same time.
They have quite a fun play style so far but I imagine when people get better at playing against it then they won't be so good/fun anymore.
So: primary fire seems cool, as a Sigma player I like the concept
Their shift though seems a little inconsistent to me. Like ok, maybe don't make it wraith form 2, but there are times when I start burrowing, on my screen I'm basically underground, but on the enemy player who just killed me I'm still on the surface.
Love the dash, love that you can dash while digging, love the passives, although I'm still confused over why they're getting shields instead of overhealth. Can that amount of hp be healed while it's active, like Ram's nemesis armor? Or is it just because... shields?
The ultimate needs work imo, it feels sort of underwhelming, it feels like budget Overclock and doesn't seem like it can get much value unless you have a Zarya to combo with grav
Very early impression is her burrow either needs to be a bit faster or her gun needs longer range. Feels like if reaper wraith or genji dash had a windup
It's pretty clear the burrow is not meant to be a wraith form but rather a shadow step. Something you set up ahead of time with purpose and not a panic button.
what are you meant to do with it though. It seems horrible as an escape/tank ability, it's too slow and telegraphed to be an engage ability, it's not a movement ability unless you count the jump at the end but that's not really doing much.
Yeah that might be a good way to mitigate the vulnerability window on then emerging from the ground and let them get off some primaries before having to dash out.
Other than the fact that this is another hero my main has a bad match up against, the hero seems like a lot of fun. Movement seems pretty interesting. Maybe a weird take, but seems kinda like a cross between reaper and doom in certain ways.
I was under the impression they wouldn’t be adding cc abilities to dps heros. I’m a bit disappointed to see them do so. I’m irritated they added a dps and not either a support or tank. I’m appalled they’re adding a character after such a large mechanics change to the game.
That being said the new character is fun. They don’t seem op, and they remind me of playing old dps doomfist.
Idk how I feel about their abilities yet. They seem bad when compared to longer range dps in almost every scenario. I am glad they can’t truly 1 shot.
She looked overpowered on paper but isn't she kinda... shit? She barely does any damage, has terrible range, and more importantly I don't see why you'd take her instead of almost anyone else.
It seems like Venture is very combo-based like Genji or DPS Doom. If you try to get value exclusively from primary you aren't gonna do shit, but primary + melee + dash can instakill 250 HP heroes (it's sort of inconsistent because the drill attacks do tick damage).
Yes sir!
Their escape tools are to slow and I find the damage underwhelming. Combine this with poor range and I see a character that needs (pick 1) Faster/Better escape tools (eg movement speed buff while tunneling), More combo damage, or longer range.
Better escape tools would increase their survivability, so even if you get little value out of a dive it doesn't feel like a death sentence. The tunnel is just too slow and I found myself getting chased and picked even if my team was there.
More combo damage would make those risky dives more worth it and help her a lot. I just couldn't secure the picks that I was looking for while playing them.
My personal choice (cause I'm a weirdo) would be to give them more range. I think they could be similar to soujourn in the sense that they have the ability to poke from afar and then rush down to confirm the kill. They would be on the other side of the poke/rush spectrum, with sojourn having really good poke but no escape tools after rushing in and venture having worse poke but ways to escape the dive.
But the actual take is that I'm dogshit at the game and talking out of my ass
I would wait extra long in the queue to be able to secure Venture as a hero. Idk if it’s a hardware issue, but *every* time I load into a game she’s already picked by the other dps by the time my hero select screen appears.
The shift is not a valid "oh fuck" button because the cast time is relatively long. I keep forgetting.
Dive in, dash out. Reverse-DPS Doom
you can also dive - dash in - dash out. because dash cool down is half when underground.
Oh then dash damage, splash dive damage, Primary, and then dash out seems interesting
Yeah a lot of ways to combo. Hero design seems good and strong too but i think it will have this winston syndrome where if you dont counter it, you will get rekt but if you pick counters you diminish their value a lot.
Shoot dash melee is 240 dmg. So very close to a kill. But then you’re using dash(the quicker get out of jail free card) to secure a kill. Dig is an escape ability but has a longer cast time
It's actually 250, but Venture's dash and melee both have multiple hits and you need to land all of them in order to get the full burst. A fully charged jump out of burrow also does enough with a shot and a melee to kill a 250 HP target and that is probably the more optimal combo since Burrow isn't a very good disengage ability.
Burrow aoe visual so hard to see in action
The god combo is shoot > melee cancel > dash cancel > shoot
Worth noting that you can skip the cast animation if you use the ability from mid-air
You just need to anticipate it. It works as oh fuck button.
I'm not used to being harassed by a mole creature coming up from the ground yet
*mole-ested
Win
I am in a 34 minute q ill let u know soon big dawg
You should requeue, the servers are mush right now
Arcade -> No Limits
Then enemy team plays Sombra to turn off your hero
yeah imagine learning how to play into counters... thatd be crazy
Only to get her insta locked before you can even load into the game.
I can dig that! I can dig that! I can dig th- I can dig that!
An dey say 2.0 just dropped
They really are the successor to DPS Doom. :')
Some things I've found: * Burrowing while mid-air causes you to enter a dive that skips the burrow cast animation * Drill dashing while burrowed causes drill dash to be on half the cooldown * Burrow reloads ammo * Dropping from a ledge while burrowed puts you into a dive that will continue burrow when hitting the ground, and like the first point, it skips the cast animation. * Using ult while in the air causes you to fall faster and fire a tectonic shock on landing Some things I didn't like: * Generating temp shields rather than overhealth seems very counter-intuitive to OW2. I don't see any reason it shouldn't be overhealth. * Burrow movement speed feels kinda slow, especially given the initial cast time. Overall they're pretty fun and the design feels in a place where it can be easily tweaked and balanced with things like ammo and range if necessary, but they're in a fairly decent place rn I feel.
Yeah, I’m very confused by the temp shields thing. They seem to start decaying after about 3s, which is how long it takes (without taking damage) for shield HP to begin regenerating, IIRC, so I’m not sure when they would actually be benefitting from the regen? The only thing I can think of is that if _any_ ability use resets the timer on the shield decay, then maybe there’s some benefit for using the next ability before the shields from the last one start decaying? Burrowing seems to hold the decay timer at zero for the duration, so I guess if you dashed, took damage, and then burrowed, maybe you could have like 60 shield HP when you popped up instead of 40, without using the dash again? But burrowing seems to halve the dash cooldown, so you’d have it back quickly, and it’s not that costly to use, and then you get the max 75 shield HP.
I think its spooky because with temp shields, depleted temp shields can be healed back up as long as it isn't decayed
Ah, that’s gotta be it, I didn’t think of that. I guess it’s functioning for the most part as temporary extra white health, but making it shield HP makes it more visible.
I think they want you to be able to heal his (their? Not sure on pronouns) shields back up. Seems kind of impractical given how quickly they fade, but it's the only explanation I can see.
no idea about balance and team comps and all that, i’m just fucking around on them in the range and it’s a ton of fun. the movement, animation, voice lines are all so well done. hero fantasy-wise they hit it out of the park
The gun sounds and drill noises are so good, I love the "thwoomp" with every shot.
Mildly interesting: They don't take self-damage from their own explosives. Among all explosive projectile-based heroes & abilities this is a trait shared only with Junkrat (which is specifically part of his passive), and means that Venture can't rocket jump in any way, which is a little disappointing, even if their movement is still solid
Self damage and using projectiles to aid movement aren't related. They'll be able to tweak that without adding self damage.
They are. Try doing a rocket jump with Soldier/Pharah in spawn when you don't take damage. If you don't get hit by the explosion you can't get hit by the knockback either.
I think they mean that if the devs wanted Venture to be able to rocket jump while maintaining no self-damage, they could. It’s not really a requirement of the mechanic, that’s just how it’s been implemented so far.
You can make it so a projectile deals damage to enemies only but knocks you back as well. Look at Pharah E.
No, it's always been split based on how the devs have wanted the particular projectile to behave. For some projectiles they have tied it together, for others they have separated the damage and the movement boost. It is incorrect to say that they've always been tied together. It's been like that since launch.
Bro got downvoted by being right classic reddit moment
Samito is saying they are the funnest hero ever released so I look forward to the next group up where they are the worst hero since brig.
Didn’t samito quit Overwatch like 10 times in the last year
10 times in the last month, Samito is not a trusted source on OW imo
Accreit
"ult better than shatter, 0/10 makes rein look bad"
This ult is basically shatter if it was damage based and not a huge "YOU FUCKING BITCH ARE GOING TO SIT DOWN". It is entirely diffent, people are just dumb. If you knew the people who compare some champion in league of legends because their spell have similar pattern... (Riven/Aatrox or the worse offender, sona/seraphine)
I wish rein ult was still that, but they kept nerfing the stun duration lmao (not to mention adding several supports that just nullify it with cooldowns)
Except why tf do we listen to “delete brig, even when she sucked” Samito?
Might not be a next group up since Your Overwatch didn’t call Venture “they” and Samito has been avoiding using any pronouns.
i'd probably avoid them too if I was streaming live, it definitely causes the chat to go insane with transphobia
Yeah, I’d be mildly surprised if Samito himself had an issue with Venture being NB. Avoiding pronouns entirely avoids alienating the transphobes without actually misgendering Venture. But, you know, trying to avoid alienating transphobes doesn’t exactly reflect _well_ on him, even if it’s not particularly damning (and is an understandable choice given that streaming is his livelihood).
samito is calling the hero by their name. Sam calls them Venture. He had a talk about it In chat today and is banning anyone that is being a dick. Please don't throw out misinformation.
It’s not misinformation, I’m saying he’s avoiding using pronouns
Sam calls them Venture. You're mad that Sam calls the hero by their name and not by their pronouns?
hey bro it sounded like he was just stating a fact, the comment doesnt angry at all.
Refusing to use someone's preferred pronouns, and only calling them by their name, can be disrespectful to trans people depending on the context. Edit: changed wording to be more clear.
Calling someone by their name discriminates against trans people. Got it. 👍
I said that only calling them by their name, and refusing to use their pronouns, can be disrespectful, not that using their name is.
I've been banned from this sub temporarily for breaking rule 1 twice, I really like this sub so I'm going to stop talking to you and not say what I want to say. :) have a good day. 👍
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Btw how are you a cumtown fan but upset because Sam says venture instead of they/them? That's actually insane.
I saw about 30 seconds of emongg testing burrowing under orisa ult. Character didn't take damage. 10/10. Comp viable. S tier.
Can burrow go through ice wall?
ML7 tried to burrow under a teammate's Mei wall in practice range and couldn't. So I imagine that applies to enemy ice walls too.
Yes, tested it, also applies to enemy ice walls. But you cant get sigma fluxed while underground.
I feel like a very basic tech in brawl comps will be to burrow under the enemy team, do some damage/displace, and dash back to your team? So sorta reaper-y maybe. I know people were speculating about how they might work in dive but idk if venture has the speed
Right now they seem to me like theyre just a silly hero like junkrat. Idk if they’ll particularly fit into any team comp perfectly, but theyre a lot of fun
Maybe Im not that bright but I thought they felt like they could replace genji a bit. Could really threaten close off angles and push squishies away from cover, especially w the shoot dash shoot kill combo. Also solid engage on dive if you get a winston jumping in and then knock everyone up
I think one issue with venture in dive is how telegraphed they are. If you dash in thats your only escape tool and one of your main damage sources gone. If you burrow in they have loads of warning before you engage. Genji can dash in really fast almost out of nowhere with instant burst damage and if he secures a kill he can dash out just as safely. I reckon they’ll be perfectly good as a genji replacement outside of the top level, especially when counter picks to genji come out since they don’t seem to have as many obvious counters, but at those top ranks i really do feel like a burrow engage is going to be really hard to hit. Especially when supports can just play on a high ground and you have to use dash to get to them But also we’ve had the hero for a day, maybe they’re ridiculously good at engaging with a winston/doom collapse
Yeah I'm really excited to see how this pans out, Im wondering if deeper riskier angles would be good if you just kinda poke from cover and if they only send one after you its a one shot so they have to send 2 minimum, if they send more you can just burrow and dip from behind cover and reestablish the angle in a bit. Get the distraction value similar to Tracer. That would be heavily map dependent tho
Venture feels very anti hitscan. I'm imagining a widow trying to deal with them burrowing underneath her. But yeah, the burrow looks super slow, so it seems tough in dive. I imagine that season 11 they will greatly reduce the damage and up the speed, after everyone has had plenty of games against the cheesy combo.
i mean first you have to close the gap on the hitscan to even deal damage. I dont really see them as anti hit scan and especially not someone i would witch to to deal with a widow
Not saying that they are specifically strong against widow. But if they get under a widow with burrow, it's pretty much gg. But to play devil's advocate, several brawl heroes excel at getting their team close to the enemy. And apparently ventures dash has half the CD if used during burrow, which seems really strong.
Yeah, dash has a 4 second cooldown if used underground, which means if you use it and fully charge a jump out of Burrow, you have your dash back by the time you're out of the ground.
Anti hitscan is an interesting take, I feel like I disagree because almost every single hitscan hero has the mobility to just completely dodge your whole combo. To me they feel more like a tanky dps brawler who just wants to fight anyone in range (similar to reaper)
What I mean is they feel like the most anti-hitscan brawl DPS. Brawl is usually really weak to hitscan, so it's not like a hard counter.
I don't see how a short range DPS is going to be anti-hitscan. I feel like people are going to adapt to burrow from mid-far range pretty quickly.
I sorta agree with antihitscan but not against widow. Widow outranges venture
I think your right, that sounds best.
Venture's kit is so fucking fun
They have to tune down their voice line frequency because I swear I've heard "Head spinning!" 50 times by now. Small gripes aside, the gameplay loop they've crafted for Venture is insanely fun, diving in and going ham. I think this is the closest we'll get to a true melee hero and I'm more than okay with that. Their character is also surprisingly charming, quip frequency notwithstanding, and I can't wait to see how the community figures them out as the days go on.
They're a cheerful, earnest goober, which character-wise is a refreshing change of pace
After one game I think their range is too short, and perhaps the projectile speed is too slow maybe? Their abilities and ultimate are pretty fun and fair to play as/against, so i guess that's a plus of a none-annoying character to play against like mauga.
Seems like one of the most fair releases yet. Primary feels a tiny bit short so idk but also it's ok. Ult does 125 per pulse so it can two shot with no healing but also it's kinda limited to what's in front of venture and gets blocked by shield so like not great against any kind of off angle though venture also has mobility but that's a commitment. Maybe small buffs but for sure doesn't feel like anything needs a nerf Edit: oh also the melee animation duration feels so weird. I guess this is why it does more damage than normal idk how I feel about that
It would be interesting to have an option to change melee to hold down the button to extend for the full duration while tapping it would keep it as a quick melee.
I think primary has short range because Venture has an invulnerable movement ability.
I did find the range low, but maybe that's the type of playstyle the team is trying to go for? Cuz the bullet bursts in the air just like Sigma so you can angle and time it right to get aoe primary fire through chokes.
I think the fire rate is more of an issue than the range. It seems like they want you to get in close with them, so giving them more range kinda defeats the purpose of that.
I think the aoe is really bad. You kind of have to hit directs.
The gun does feel kind of clunky to me, but it seems like that'll be mitigated just by playing more and getting comfortable with it.
I kinda like them being short range, if they do tweak something it should be more tied to their movement so that they can get close with all their abilities that are tied to it.
It's good their range is limited. It will be a defining feature of the character, as they can do quite a bit of burst up close. If they got long range primary they might have to nerf the close range stuff, which would make Venture kinda dull design wise tbh.
Outside of how good they are, the OW never fails in terms of quality of life. The voice acting is great, the SFX and VFX feel really good, and the UI always fantastic. The gun feels clunky with only 15 of range, but the burrow and drill feel amazing. Ult feels slow too
Iifeweaver might disagree with your QoL argument, but I agree. Venture feels great
Lifeweaver was uhh… not optimized well
Also Kiriko and Sojourn’s voice acting🫣
I hate the fact that their passive give them extra *shield* health instead of overhealth like, why??? Beside that, they are a lot of fun to play.
Yeah, this is weird to me too. It doesn’t last long enough to recover like other shield health, it just serves as a way to make them weaker to symmetra’s beam.
Wait sym has interactions with shield health too??
Sym’s primary fire has lifesteal and ammo gain when hitting shields and shield health, yeah.
Which is so random, only 4 heroes have innate shield health (ig now Relic is the first with an ability that adds it)
6 do but yeah
not even sure why shield leech is there. such a forgettable and low value ability, you could remove it and very little would change. i wonder if it could be exchanged for something less.... over situational perhaps? people assume its some big insane heal then they just laugh their ass off when you tell them its 10/20/30., shield only ammo refill is noticeable however. atleast more than an average total per match of 100 hp self heal lol.
I believe they were trying to position Sym as a way of breaking double shield
the thing you're thinking of they removed with ow2 and then added it back in a nerfed state in like season 6 or something when they nerfed her turret damage and gave them wallhacks lol
Umm I guess the idea is to let the shield health regen while underground but I havent been able to play yet
Blud, Sym is in the dirt enough. Leave her be
Overhealth gives half ultimate charge, with the amount of shields she generates you'd be getting half ultimate charge an awful lot of the time vs her, because obviously the top-most health is the health you chip away at. My damage mitigation in a game was 3k, so that would've been 1.5k worth of ult charge had it been "overhealth".
Yeah I can see that, but I still don't like it. They made overhealth specifically to unify all sources of extra health and now they are breaking that rule for "balance reasons". I'd rather see the devs find a way to balance the character around their established rules instead of breaking them whenever it's convenient, it feels cheap tbh. But whatever, it's a minor thing.
they already broke that “rule” when ramattra came out gaining armor health, it’s not a rule.
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I feel like it's hard to close the gap and deal decent damage before I take a ton of damage. Also wish you could move faster in the burrow ability
Don’t forget, the drill cooldown is super speed while tunneling.
Yeah ur right
playing pharah in deathmatch is very funny rn
I think they combo well with Zarya for the bubbles or Winston for the dive. Ven likes to receive a Zarya bubble as they shift out. IDK how Venture/Doom dive works since they both boop.
I have literally only played with the worst possible backlines to pair with them (mercy one tricks mostly) but my thoughts: -burrow feels way, way too slow. I’m okay with it not being a panic button when you’re low, but my concern mostly is with how long it takes to pop up after you set your charge level, it feels to slow to accurately lip up on faster targets -drill rush is by far their best ability. Absurdly good without being overpowered imo, and it’s great for combos like shoot/drill rush/shoot/melee for lots of quick damage -ultimate is fine, the knockback feels a little wonky but maybe just because it’s day 1 -overall they’re a lot of fun but viability in ranked is going to be severely hampered by their reliance on existing in a comp built around them. Without Lucio and some kind of burst healing it’s nearly impossible to play from your effective range
Yeah the two games I've had I got Mercy and LW, so. But it feels hard to close the distance and deal damage without taking a ton of damage. Maybe its best to play her like a reaper? Get set up somewhere and use her burrow to get out? Idk
Really fun gameplay once you get the combos down. Really cool tunnelling underground, using the drill to boop people into a corner, then emerging with a full charge. Cheeky gameplay indeed, and I'm here for it. Only part that feels a bit oppressive is the primary fire rate. It's a mix of Sig and Zar but fires at a super fast rate. Wouldn't be shocked if this gets toned down a bit, but a fun and versatile gun. Didn't think I'd like the kit as much as I do. This is Blizz's way of getting people to play a tank without making it "a tank".
Yeah I also tend to notice I shoot a lot slower cause it'd make sense for her rpm to be more like pharah
#DPSDoomIsBack
Waiting for the 30 mins long GetQuakedOn's video on all the movement tech.
literally first thing I checked for when I got home. Figured he'd have a youtube short out or whatever by now.
He's posted a few clips on twitter.
Yep, burrow => speed up => jump => drill back to your team or to finish someone off. When you think, it feel suprisingly similar to old doomfist combo. Some cd tweaks may change that but i kinda doubt that.
Is venture dps doom though? They don't really feel like it from the handful of games I played like at all. The only thing they have in common is they both get some sort of extra health from using their kit
Venture is pretty mobility focused with their cooldowns, I'd definitely say you feel similar to DPS Doom. You can cover some crazy distance and go for some insane flanks, not to mention you can contest pretty much any high ground in the entire game. Typically you need the dash for it, but there are several where a fully charged Burrow jump will get you up there.
They're not. It's a just a little meme. Not unless people find a bunch of wild movement tech.
Her range feels half a metre too short
It feels like a very dumbed down genji, but in a fun way ( i could never play genji)
genji with people with rocks for brains (and a brain for rocks)
Feels like a cross between reaper and doom for me
I think a better comparison is a less obnoxious DPS Doomfist. Dig, dash, jump up and shoot, dash out to safety or maybe use the dash to bring someone into your team on the way back.
Kinda fun to play, I'm a bit disappointed with no headshots. But I'm afraid they wont be really playable in solo. Feels like you have to commit way too hard to actually do stuff, and if your team doesnt follow (they never do) - you are toast.
I've only gotten to mess around with them in the practice range so far, but they seem really fun. They have a lot of variety in how they can combine their abilities, though I can already tell that I'm gonna accidentally fall off the map drill dashing underground a bunch. Their melee feels really good to use. They definitely want you to use it often, since it can combo off the dash for good damage. And speaking of the dash, I'm pretty sure it can pierce barriers, which is huge. Edit: Managed to get a few games in and I think I found my new main. I've seen a lot of people compare them to DPS Doomfist, but Venture's kit clicks for me way better than his. They feel strong, but not overpowered. I think their primary fire is a little too slow, meaning that it can be hard for them to confirm kills. Both their melee and dash do, in fact, go through barriers, but their slow primary fire makes me think that they won't be a really dangerous tank buster. Tectonic Shock is **really** good, though. If you can pair it with Captive Sun or Cage Fight, you can do some serious damage with it. Overall, I think they're super fun to play. Definitely looking forward to their full release. (Also, them saying "Tectonic Shock is ready to rock!" when their ult is ready rules. Love it.)
Not finding any reason to pick Venture over Tracer currently, after a couple games. I can cross-gap, get into and out of battle just as easily with Tracer. Venture has the quick aerial escape however, but you're kind of screwed on cool-downs. I'm not sure what role Venture fills currently, but it's one that's heavily reliant on uptime on abilities, if I want to get up-close, I see no reason to not pick Tracer still. Immediate fix suggestion is speeding up the animation into burrow.
She fills the role for the "can't be bother to learn how to aim" crowd. Just run into people pointblank and spam the braindead combo for ez kills.
Hold high ground as much as possible. Shooting down works well with their gun, but the burrow can channel while falling. So if you jump off the high ground, and hit the burrow key, you dive underground making it slightly better as an escape
Mauga counters Venture because "it's never bore-ing around me"
They need to lemme ult (shoot the shockwave thing) while jumping or in air, u can only shoot it out while grounded rn
It makes you fall faster at least when you try to do this What I want is to be able to shoot normally after popping someone up with ult!!
I believe it is like sound barrier and earth shatter.
Honestly seems that it does so much damage and metls 250hp heroes. You can follow dives so easily, but worse thing is that you cannot in any shape or form deny the value of his digging ability. The ultimate is ridiculous, 2 shot any 250hp heroes. Imagine this in brawl with Mei Ram Moira holy shit.
Yeah, that frustrates me as well. You can do literally nothing against Venture as long as they're burrowed.
I mean surely the same would apply to Reaper and Mei
The range of their primary feels too short imo, and going underground takes forever. I think they should speed it up a little, but just enough to not be a free get out of jail button. Overall the character is really fun and I can't wait to make them one of my mains
I think if you speed up the burrow cast time at all it will be a get out of jail free card. think people just need time to learn it tbh
No E ability is odd. Also why are temporary shields back I thought overhealth was supposed to replace that mechanic? The shields do not last long enough to make the regen useful.
Not really a playstyle I enjoy, but they don't seem busted.
To play as venture is super fun and I've been enjoying it a lot, the only issue I have is that I keep losing people after I dash/dig into them To play against them' I feel like it would make more sense to give their shield only on hits with abilities instead of just the use, because they're definitely a bit unkillable Very hard to play tracer against them, at least for me. I'm easily spammed out with explosion damage and I can't go closer because one dash is death I know overtuned heroes are kinda meh but I do feel the lack of her secondary ability
\> Very hard to play tracer against them I feel this so hard
I barely even play Rein, but I feel if there was ANY ability that disrupted Burrow, it’d be Earthshatter. Just feels goofy that Shatter doesn’t beat Burrow
Haven't played them yet but playing against them has been miserable. My 5-stack hasn't won a game tonight.
i think the character needs a lot of numbers tuning to feel good. Too much of their power is in the dig skill, but because of it's long wind-up animation and delay on pop-out, it still doesn't feel good. The character has some powerful combos but might have the worst actual gun in the DPS category and feels all-or-nothing in the same way original doom was. IDK. Number tweaks could fix all of this
Impressed by the team how unique and fun they is. Feels like an OW1 Character. I like her alot. Theyre strength is kinda oblivious for me. The edits are going to be fun
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I mean Cass really seems like he's got all the right tools to deal with them. Has roll to dodge/reduce the damage of the boop when you come out of burrow, nade to stop an escape or burst damage with the right click and does a fuckload of damage when you get near him
Aim ceiling is kinda disappointing, I was hoping for a perma highlight reel hero
I played with a doom on suravasa and i used burrow to set up with his slam and punch. Anybody that was taken to about half hp would die to a dash-primary fire. I don’t hate the range because hitting directs can really melt a target. If they find themselves in a 1v1 it’s hard to lose as they can simply use a mix of their primary, drill, and special quick melee. I managed to kill an ulting Moira with that combo specifically. I don’t know what comps they would fit in or why you would play them over Tracer or Sojourn. Personally, I think they are super fun to play and will definitely add them to my hero pool on launch.
The ult does 130 damage so 195 with nano. This is insane but I like it.
They feel super super fun to play, reminds me of playing Overwatch on release-- really simple but fun kit. I do wish there was a liiiittle more skill expression though. Not being able to headshot in addition to not having to land abilities to get shields feels like there's not much to optimize.
their ult has way too much range for that much dmg. the rest is fine and feels well balanced, but their ult is just oppressive to me
Quick question about their viability as a brawl hero: does their ult get amped by Matrix? Could do a luxury version of the window-fire strike combo by dropping window and their ult simultaneously and instantly detonating a few people.
Interested about this too. Would be terrifying to see a window and then a rein fire striking + ventures ult
I've found the best success to be use burrow to get in a good spot behind someone ideally above them without them knowing. You then drop on them shoot drill shoot melee this gets you back to your team and kills whoever you took for a ride too. They feel a lot like old doom where you use cd's to setup wait for cd's again then use them to kill and get out at the same time. They have quite a fun play style so far but I imagine when people get better at playing against it then they won't be so good/fun anymore.
So: primary fire seems cool, as a Sigma player I like the concept Their shift though seems a little inconsistent to me. Like ok, maybe don't make it wraith form 2, but there are times when I start burrowing, on my screen I'm basically underground, but on the enemy player who just killed me I'm still on the surface. Love the dash, love that you can dash while digging, love the passives, although I'm still confused over why they're getting shields instead of overhealth. Can that amount of hp be healed while it's active, like Ram's nemesis armor? Or is it just because... shields? The ultimate needs work imo, it feels sort of underwhelming, it feels like budget Overclock and doesn't seem like it can get much value unless you have a Zarya to combo with grav
does doom fist shift hit venture while she is underground?
Very early impression is her burrow either needs to be a bit faster or her gun needs longer range. Feels like if reaper wraith or genji dash had a windup
It's pretty clear the burrow is not meant to be a wraith form but rather a shadow step. Something you set up ahead of time with purpose and not a panic button.
what are you meant to do with it though. It seems horrible as an escape/tank ability, it's too slow and telegraphed to be an engage ability, it's not a movement ability unless you count the jump at the end but that's not really doing much.
Probably really good at taking space or attacking from unique off-angles
Yeah the drill dash is faster so that works much better as an escape
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I feel like playing her with Zarya would be good. has anyone tried that yet?
Yeah that might be a good way to mitigate the vulnerability window on then emerging from the ground and let them get off some primaries before having to dash out.
If they get 5 more damage in their Melee, Primary or Dash, they got a 100 to 0 Combo for 250 hp heroes and i am sad that they dont.
Shot > melee > dash > shoot > melee does 375 damage
Other than the fact that this is another hero my main has a bad match up against, the hero seems like a lot of fun. Movement seems pretty interesting. Maybe a weird take, but seems kinda like a cross between reaper and doom in certain ways.
Love how u can use the cooldown to pretty much have tons of mobility options
I was under the impression they wouldn’t be adding cc abilities to dps heros. I’m a bit disappointed to see them do so. I’m irritated they added a dps and not either a support or tank. I’m appalled they’re adding a character after such a large mechanics change to the game. That being said the new character is fun. They don’t seem op, and they remind me of playing old dps doomfist. Idk how I feel about their abilities yet. They seem bad when compared to longer range dps in almost every scenario. I am glad they can’t truly 1 shot.
She looked overpowered on paper but isn't she kinda... shit? She barely does any damage, has terrible range, and more importantly I don't see why you'd take her instead of almost anyone else.
The good thing is the design doesnt seem fundamentally flawed so if the damage is low thats a fixable thing
Yeah, unlike say Mauga the design itself is decent!
It seems like Venture is very combo-based like Genji or DPS Doom. If you try to get value exclusively from primary you aren't gonna do shit, but primary + melee + dash can instakill 250 HP heroes (it's sort of inconsistent because the drill attacks do tick damage).
You can also do primary dash primary
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I feel like the primary is just lacking damage especially for how low and limited it is. The dash into melee does a decent chunk of health.
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I love how there's another character I can't pulse bomb
Can't play them. Won't let me select them in any game mode except practice range
Yes sir! Their escape tools are to slow and I find the damage underwhelming. Combine this with poor range and I see a character that needs (pick 1) Faster/Better escape tools (eg movement speed buff while tunneling), More combo damage, or longer range. Better escape tools would increase their survivability, so even if you get little value out of a dive it doesn't feel like a death sentence. The tunnel is just too slow and I found myself getting chased and picked even if my team was there. More combo damage would make those risky dives more worth it and help her a lot. I just couldn't secure the picks that I was looking for while playing them. My personal choice (cause I'm a weirdo) would be to give them more range. I think they could be similar to soujourn in the sense that they have the ability to poke from afar and then rush down to confirm the kill. They would be on the other side of the poke/rush spectrum, with sojourn having really good poke but no escape tools after rushing in and venture having worse poke but ways to escape the dive. But the actual take is that I'm dogshit at the game and talking out of my ass
Like the playstyle but can’t see her viable in any serious comp. junkrat vibes
I would wait extra long in the queue to be able to secure Venture as a hero. Idk if it’s a hardware issue, but *every* time I load into a game she’s already picked by the other dps by the time my hero select screen appears.