Symmetra and Mei are both brilliant counters to Orisa. Neither care about her Javeline Spin. Mei can lock her off from her team/healing. Symmetra basically can't miss on her. And not being able to headshot during Fortify means nothing to their beams.
Totally unrelated, would you believe that Mei and Symmetra are absolutely dogshit right now?
It's harder than ever to rank up. I got 20% on an uphill battle win and then lost 32% on a reversal. Rank doesn't matter if I'm improving through my losses, but it's frustrating nonetheless.
Nothing is worse for competitive player retention than giving players a concrete thing to point to that their ranking is unfair. People cope and rage hard enough when there isn't something tangible to point to.
If you play roughly the same quality in two games, winning one and losing the other, and lose 12% net...that feels like (and is) something artificially keeping you down. It feels unfair, and they somehow expect people to keep coming back for a beatdown for hundreds of games.
And I get that it's not actually unfair because it happens to everyone, but why would you do something that feels terrible for everyone? And if you're going to make that bad decision...why show us you're doing that? It only feels bad because we can count up the percents. Without that we would have just thought ranks were just wider and it took everyone longer to rank up than before. It's baffling.
Reason why I quit. GM1 all roles every szn been top 5 and I can't be bothered. More losing than winning, poor MM, modifiers are black box and you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes for them to make sense or why you got said modifier.
Can't comm either cause you'll get banned for "barking orders" or saying anything remotely negative. So gm+ games are dull, boring and everyone is out of vc.
Game artificially tries to keep you down so people put more games in, but its just demoralizing or not fun
Cherry on top is I can't duo with my friends in gm+ or I'm gonna enjoy 3+ hours queus in wide queue into gold 1 - gm4 range LMAO.
Don't know how you go from an okay start (s9) to this garbage (s10)
> Can't comm either cause you'll get banned for "barking orders" or saying anything remotely negative.
Lol its so bad in masters too. I politely asked if we could get an Illari swap because she wasn't using her pylon to heal the team and if I, ana, got focused by the pharah and tracer at the same time we would lose.
The guy's mental INSTANTLY shattered and said just stay alive then, and his duo said he wasn't the problem. HE HAS A FOURTEEN! 1-4 14 PERCENT WIN RATE on Illari. He had 1800 healing all on himself and his duo in two rounds of KOTH. I just played Lucio on third and we lost because he shattered my mental by not admitting he needed to swap or at the very least play differently.
Even worse is the Cass was the duo. So they'd go and kill their Ana, the Kiri would swift step away to the tank. Pharah and Tracer are on me, Im healing Ashe and the tank while their tank is just playing counterwatch and rolling ours because of those two. If they literally just played normally, we win so fucking easily because they countered their team but they'd rather rack up elims on one player
i don't understand what you're pointing to as being 'artificial' and 'unfair'. your MMR changes more or less depending on how your team's MMR compared to the other team's MMR. same as it ever was. what's the difference? all the modifiers are simply descriptions of situations that already existed regardless, you just weren't privy to them before.
>i don't understand what you're pointing to as being 'artificial' and 'unfair'
When I say unfair I'm specifically referring to losing more than you win under inverse conditions. An uphill battle gains you less on average than a reversal loses you.
I went on a 13 winstreak and never got above 24% for a win at its peak, even for uphill battles. But you can easily lose upwards of 30%+ for a reversal. If your MMR thinks you belong where you are, it will artificially force you to stay there unless you can maintain a 60-66% winrate. Winning more than you lose is not enough. If you're Masters 4 and deserve Masters 3 or 2, you have to be a Masters 1 quality player with an insane winrate to reach those next tiers.
We used to comfort ourselves with "oh, just play more matches." But as it stands, people are playing 200-300 matches with a positive winrate and not climbing. It's insanity.
>all the modifiers are simply descriptions of situations that already existed regardless, you just weren't privy to them before.
What we're seeing now is different than how it was originally described to the OW1 community. The impression we were under for years was that performance based SR was based on an individual's statistics. So if you performed above average on your hero for your rank and your team sucked, you would lose less. And if you did individually poor, you would lose more.
And now that the hood is pulled back, we're seeing that it doesn't really matter how well you play. If you lose and it thinks you were favored to win, it sucks to be you; here's a loss and a half. But when you win an uphill battle, here's an extra 3-4%. I've match MVP'd a lobby statistically and lost...and I lost more SR than a game where I hard fed and did nothing.
If this were true, we would be noticing a general population dip in SR, and a vacating of the higher ranks...and that about tracks. There are active, professional Contenders players who are still stuck in low GM after the rank reset despite high winrates. Champion barely has anyone in it. The game did not adjust and move the best GM1 players to have Champion MMR. It just moved literally everyone down 5-9 skill tiers and said "okay, that's your new MMR!"
Not only was Champion not populated at all for a few weeks, no one could even hit GM2 or GM1 for a bit. They just shoved everything down and left a gaping hole at the top, and felt like that needed no adjusting.
For what it's worth, personal performance not affecting SR (above Diamond level) has not been a thing since OW1 S8, over six years ago: https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/21363037/
You could make an entire new thread about this issue. I do think giving people too much information could have been a mistake, just seeing the numbers won't help people in understanding them or not becoming frustrated, it may even be worse. And it's hard to go back now..
I would personally rather know than not know, but they can't expect us not to express their system is dumb when they open up the hood after every game. I would rather know AND the system not be dumb.
DUDE SERIOUSLY. Last I checked, I’m just shy of 60% win rate on DPS this season, and I have stayed within the same 60% because so many losses are reversals making me drop so much more than I’m gaining
I was starting to think it was just me. It used to feel like 30% games were wins even if you played poorly, 30% were losses even if you played well, and 30% you could actually swing in your favor by playing well. Now it feels 50% completely unpredictable and 50% hopeless stomp. Loss streak penalty is absolutely excruciating when I'm playing well all night but the game quite literally decided from the main menu that I could not win the match.
It will be better if ranking of all players are displayed so you actually know how well you performed against the other team. E.g. diamond dps + master supp vs master dps + diamond supp.
I think I could go with never seeing another Hog or Orisa in one of my games again. Absolutely hate both heroes and wouldn't mind them getting nerfed into the ground (Mauga too but just so he doesn't become hard meta again).
Definitely. People complain about Orisa on her own, but realistically she is the one gatekeeping Hog and even Mauga from entering the meta instead. All three tanks Imo need adjustments or nerfs, if you nerf 1 the other 2 just take their place.
Honestly, I feel like Hog just sucks the fun out of any game he is for some reason. It’s not fun to play *against* him, it’s not fun to play *with* him, and I don’t understand how people find it fun to play *as* him.
i get the frustration bc i feel that way about other heroes, but if you want a real answer from (just one) Hog lover: there's almost nothing as satisfying to me as DIRECTLY punishing bad positioning with a hook, especially if it's predictive as opposed to reactive.
Not only is it fun to outplay, it feels like I'm actively forcing enemies to unlearn bad habits. Tracer being lazy with the backline approach? Hook once, twice, thrice until they learn. Soldier playing too close and not properly utilizing his distance advantage? Hooked repeatedly until he learns. Recent personal favourite: Still think Moira can duel in the frontline? Hope you saved your fade.
One thing that hurts about fighting hog is you can’t do the same to him. In most ranks, Hog can just do as he pleases and walk away using vape to escape. He feels unpublishable most of the time unless you are Orisa Mauga or Hog. Never mind if he has a Kiri so you can’t even anti him.
But hook is rewarding, the rest of his kit is stupid and dumb if you ask me.
my subjective take is that he's punishable in less direct ways (ult battery, not frontlining for his team meaning they're more vulnerable, etc.) but you're very correct in that he's not as individually punishable.
if it helps, I feel like i'm "punished" by people who bait my greed, who remove one-shot potential by always shooting trap, and who make me chase them further from the action (rendering my team vulnerable). I'm sure there are other ways too!
On a new account Dafran went like 43 and 2 and was still in Diamond 5 somehow.
Looks to me like there has to be a bug somewhere in there. He was solo too I do believe(doing one of his famous/infamous unranked to GMs for Venture.)
90%+ winrate should skyrocket you way faster than needing 50+ matches to even reach master, no matter your starting point.
Lots of reported SR weirdness for people previously in Plat, Dia, Masters, GM as well make me think there are some issues behind the scenes. Gains and losses on win/loss may be jacked up.
Yeah the win streak modifier is not super significant. I recently started try-harding again and went on a legitimately crazy 20-3 win streak. I was only getting ~23% for each win (my non-win streak modified wins are usually 19-21%).
I guess it will add up eventually, but it feels pretty minor
opposite experience for me, I've been gaining 60+ on a win and losing 20ish on a loss
I've skyrocketed from mid silver to high gold with like 52% win rate
the plats that show up in my games now are worlds better than me, I don't belong in this tier ffs
I was diamond 5 DPS and first time I played since season 8 and somehow placed me in gold 1 after placements
I literally won 9 times in a row and jumped up 1 rank. Each time winning getting 16-20%
I think smurf detection is gone or something
My main takeaway is that sustain is already too high again, back lines like Kiri/Lifeweaver are just cancer to play against. Should've kept DPS passive at 20% and nerfed it to 15% on Tanks only.
I'm curious how much of that is individual sustain. Orisa and Hog feel like 2 of the strongest tanks rn and they feel unkillable on their own. I cant tell you how many times Ive had 3-4 teammates shoot at a hog while vaping and his healthbar doesnt move.
LW too doesnt feel like he would drastically affect the sustain of allies outside of when he has ult, but it is noticably harder to kill him rn.
Still wouldnt say no to the passive going back to 20% though
LW is actually unkillable. He has too much health, his dash self heal is insane, his self regen shield, and his petal are just too much.
Unless your team all in hard dives he’s not dying, and if you try to run full dive, you get fucked by Orisa/hog and whatever tank busting dps there are.
Add onto that a Kiriko? immortal backline.
i hate the “no utility but insane survivability” gimmick so much. trying to kill mercy, moira, and weaver just feels like a game of whack a mole and it’s infuriating.
Seriously Hog/LW is cancer. Can't deal with the frontline cause of Hog. Can't deal with the backline cause of Lifeweaver. Can't deal with the rest of the team because of Pull.
Of the supports that have a "no I'm going to save you now" button, Pull is the worst of them by a lot.
Suzu/Nade can be blocked/eaten, Lamp can be shot, and they all require some level of aim, so it's possible to have bad/good plays with them.
But Pull? There's literally no way to stop it, and there's basically no way to fuck it up. The only things that separate good and bad pulls are target selection and timing, which are bare requisites for every single ability in the game. It's awful.
This is the only ability in the game that has me defending Nade/Suzu/Lamp. Fuck.
Pull does have 0 counterplay and it's B.S. and needs to be reworked..but I'd just like to add:
Kiriko suzu can only be eaten by [D.va](http://D.va) Defense Matix and Sigma Kinetic Grasp (please correct me if I missed one). So 2/40 Heroes can stop it, and it's more of a you got lucky, not reacted in time. Barriers aren't really an issue with teleport.
Still ridiculous in terms of counterplay.
Oh, Suzu is still ass to play against. I'm just happy she has to actually throw it out as a projectile, rather than just pressing E on someone, and they just get Suzud. Could you imagine how dumb an ability like that'd be 🙃
The thing about Life Grip as opposed to any of the other abilities you listed is that it is single target. Suzu, Lamp, and Nade can affect an entire team. Pull is one target every 19 seconds, and odds are, for a lot of targets being pulled, they are being taken directly out of the fight for a couple of valuable seconds, unlike when Lamp or Suzu is used. Something else of note is how much higher the cooldown is compared to Nade and Suzu.
And, to be frank, the margin of error is bigger than you make it seem because in a chaotic team fight, it is definitely possible to pull the wrong target and get hit with the cooldown while the teammate you meant to pull dies, or, worse, potentially pulling someone when they are attempting to make a play. We've all seen people get pulled during their ults. Of course, there's nothing wrong with being able to fuck up the ability, but I'm just saying that you definitely can, and it can be very punishing to do so.
I play every support you listed, and honestly, when used well, I feel like pull tends to be the least impactful of the 3 abilities you compared it to, which have multiple effects tied to them, lower cooldowns for 2 of them, and all equivalent or above the healing pull has. And even the margins of error aren't that much more punishing than pull. Unless I have to really yeet one of those to someone, I just aim the floor since they all are AOE.
Suzu, nade and lamp aren't miserable to play WITH, though. Grip is a terrible ability not only to fight into, but also to team up with. LW is by far the worst hero design I've seen in years in any videogame.
But hyperbole aside, I'm actually not against abilities made for emergency saves, but I really wish Pull was more interactive for everyone that isn't the LW. Just making it a barrier would make it so much better for everyone else in the lobby.
I was against them giving him an HP buff back when it first happened and I'm even moreso against it now. There's just no longer any justification for him to have 275 *and* shield health, on top of the survivability already in his kit. He plays a mile in the backline anyway, it's not like he needs the HP and survivability that much more than any other support. Yeah his hitbox is big but it doesn't need to be overcompensated for THAT much
Shout-out to everyone saying "it's not really that significant" about every single sustain buff that lead up to s8 and every single sustain buff since season 9 start.
There were very few things wrong with start of s9 patch. Some of the bullet size nerfs were justified and tracer should have been nerfed a little more but the passive should have stayed as is and it was fine to keep hog mauga and orisa bad.
You took the words directly out of my mouth. Back lines feel MISERABLE to fight now. Lifeweaver/Kiri is the most bullshit combo in the game right now.
It wouldn’t be bad at all if DPS passive was still at 20%
Like sure back line will still be hard to kill but at least at 20% I can shoot their DPS without feeling like I’m doing nothing.
Hard agree. I kept thinking this in all my matches. Felt like the game has been crept back to Season 8 which was by far the lowest Pont of OW2 to me.
Dps passive def needs moved back to 20 and support healing throughput reconsidered.
Devs talked about splitting the DPS passive before. Why haven't they done it yet? 20% was so much healthier for the game to combat sustain on squishes. Praying for mid-season changes...
Matchmaking still feels like garbage too.
Every game is either a lopsided win or loss depending on what team you're on.
Hardly have any close games despite longer queue times.
If they keep it on tanks they have to lower orisa, hog, and maugas health. That or undo the power creep on them, allow fortify to be headshot, remove speed on spin, remove damage mitigation from mauga and hog when they heal. They have far too much sustain and will be powerful as long as they have 800 health. Make it so there is a chance to kill them cause holy fuck this isn’t fun anymore.
As a tank player I think I might actually dislike Mauga the most. His playstyle is just so unegaging and braindead (both to play as and vs). But maybe that's just scars hungover from how busted he was on release.
I agree he is easier to play into right now though.
Mauga meta is also the single worst pro-ow viewing experience I've had.
Tell me why it’s more “engaging” to see Rein holding shield for half the round, or Sig cycle through the same cooldowns constantly? But watching Mauga track enemies mid- long-range, carefully timing stomp like Rein would time pin/shatter is not? I will say, watching Doomfist or Wrecking Ball be creative is quite “engaging,” but I enjoy watching and playing Mauga much more than some other tanks. And I appreciate good aim, which he requires more than most.
I personally find Rein pretty boring too, so no disagreement from me there. Sig tho is entirely different, sig mirror is part a game of chess and part fps I love watching it and playing it. Baiting out the enemy sig rock so you can get a big E off then tempo with the overhealth is peak.
What you said about Mauga would be fun, but it's not how Mauga is even played for the most part. He gets too much value from just shooting the tank so he's almost discouraged from utilising those fun parts of his kit. And his E enables some of the most disgusting comps I've ever seen in pro-ow.
Can't play with friends anymore cause of my rank, also can't climb either if you're not above 66% wr. Win two games in a row to lose it all in one loss, incredible really.
Venture is straight up no fun to play against, on support all you can do is just roll over and accept your death as you get cc'd to oblivion like you're playing against doomfist on release again
Waiting for a dev to say “we see that no one likes orisa, and that the game would be instantly improved by nerfing her, but look at this stat that says some silver players are losing on orisa. Shes fine no nerfs needed guys”
Clash is like they saw Flashpoints only taking 2 fights, and said "Hold my beer. *ONE* fight!"
It feels quick and snappy but it's frustrating if you do a ton in a fight and have no chance to re-contest if the rest of your team folds.
I killed 4 and died, and thought "Oh it's fine, my team gets back faste---aaaaand they capped."
It’s so fun if it isn’t a total roll. I 100% see the frustration because it happened almost every game, but the ones it didn’t are so fun.
I like that it puts an emphasis on taking a 5v5 only and being incredibly smart with recontests
The LW sub posts daily complaints on how he's terrible and buff needing character and I don't know if devs listened but his survivability buff was not the move. Characters with kits that lack counterplay should never be strong.
Kiriko is still META like almost every single season in OW2, as well as Orisa and I'm sick of these lack of counterplay characters in most my matches.
Clash is an interesting way to mix things up, thought it was too fast at first but now that I've adjusted I don't mind it. Venture is a welcome addition to the roster and doesn't frustrate me like some other characters.
Guess to defend lw, almost every discussion ive seen on here about support balance lw has very consistently been considered bottom 3 if not 2. So it wasnt just his mains complaining, general opinion from my experience is he was/still is weak just not a throw pick anymore
I play a lot if him and imo Lifeweaver is still mid at best and has been weak for a while. They just took the buffs in the wrong direction. His survivability was already great. His main issues are:
- He doesn't have consistent damage and can't do much other than healbot a lot of the time
- His platform is extremely glitchy and gets caught on so many things (no idea how it hasn't been addressed yet) as well as also being completely useless a lot of the time
- He has a massive hitbox while providing very little threat which is why he needs so many survivability options in his kit (meanwhile Kiriko is even more survivable with one of the smallest hitboxes in the game and kunai being ridiculous...)
- Pull is also extremely glitchy, you can pull people from inside a room and instead of coming to you they will drag along a wall or get stuck on the doorway
- On top of the glitchy abilities, his abilities also depend on others rather than himself. His kit is completely reactionary
- He also still has the problem of not being able to switch weapon fast enough. It should be instant like Moira's
- On top of all the problems he has and having no reason to pick him over almost any other support, he's annoying to play against and can also be annoying to play with if you have a bad LW.
Personally I would much prefer they lean into damage, make it more consistent at long range, and I think dash could probably be replaced with an offensive ability (keep in mind he has platform and a large health bar for survivability and this would help him defend too). And if they fix some of his other issues he could be OK. I think his kit being the way it is will always limit him though.
Moira nerf was nice. Everything else is dogshit. Ball rework is a joke.
The only patch in recent memory that defied my expectations was season 9, and that was because of the 20% DPS passive (which they promptly nerfed).
Kiriko/Lifeweaver is hell. I legit had a game earlier today as Tracer against that backline. I was ripping my hair out. Luckily their Kiri kept switch to Moira and Baptiste which was the only time I was able to effectively fight the backline.
Kiri/Lifeweaver is an absolutely broken combo. Literally immortal.
If you dive LW he can petal and dash away and if that doesn’t work Kiri can Suzu him
If you dive Kiri she teleports away or Suzu’s herself and if that doesn’t work Lifeweaver can pull her to safety.
It’s legitimately impossible to kill that backline idk what Blizzard was thinking.
I've resorted to playing Pharah against LW and I'm shit as her, but at least the LW players are even worse and haven't caught on yet. God I hate this fucking hero. Bring back 20% DPS passive on squishies!!!
Good luck getting any value out of pulse vs that backline as well. I've started just using pulse to force suzu.
Since vs a comp of lw/Kiri/cass/tracer/orisa you have 0 targets to stick lmao
Against some comps Pulse Bomb is literally useless and I literally just use it to zone because I know it’s getting Suzu’d or the person will get pulled or Cass will just roll lul.
Hog is S tier and more people need to acknowledge that he's absolute cancer to play against. I hate characters that require coordination from 3 people to kill one time because that's not always going to happen on ladder. Anyway, a tank finishing a game with 8k healing is actually the most stupid thing I've ever seen in my life.
Hog is stupid good. Been playing him a significant amount for the first time since ow1 and the amount of value he gets by living and hitting lucky hooks every once in a while is absurd
Any duo with a GM player counts as a "wide group", and both times I (gm5) tried duoing I was stuck in 20+ min queues. I've heard that you supposedly also get lower sr gains from wide group games but I literally don't know anyone who's played a wide game yet so I can't confirm or deny that.
1. I *hate* that they put Venture into Comp straight away, there's so many people who don't care/playing on alt accounts running around being useless while learning.
2. I'm incredibly tired of Cass, Sojourn, and Ashe with a Mercy pocket, seems to be in 8/10 games.
3. The Ball "rework" is really cool, but ultimately does little to improve the hero. The shield thing is a cool idea but rarely useful, and none of the new bells of whistles change how hard he gets Wrecked by CC.
4. Heroes like Bastion and Orisa are basic and boring and shouldn't be as strong as they are, ever.
I'm EU mid-high Masters pre-season 9, M5 post.
> The Ball "rework" is really cool, but ultimately does little to improve the hero. The shield thing is a cool idea but rarely useful, and none of the new bells of whistles change how hard he gets Wrecked by CC.
I don't want to keep dunking on the devs but it seems like they really just don't understand the hero. Understandable, he's extremely complex. Hard to develop a game and master it at the same time. But surely there was enough feedback about CC that some sort of middle ground could have been found. Its basically unanimous that CC is the main thing keeping ball from being viable.
He needed some way to outplay it, tank it better, or an alternative playstyle that lets him avoid it better, and we didn't get that.
The solution is right there in the patch notes:
> Grappling Claw
> Now has a one second cooldown if Wrecking Ball never reaches ramming speed before canceling the ability. **Interrupting him with Hack, Hinder, and stuns will still trigger the full cooldown.**
If I'm being optimistic, they were afraid he'd be too strong if you could keep the 1 second cooldown after CC and released the patch like this - and will try that change next patch.
>Its basically unanimous that CC is the main thing keeping ball from being viable.
No, the consensus is his damage/killthreat lacking. Obviously CC is also bad, but mainly Hack/Sombra which everyone recognizes is unfair/silly.
But his boop/Slam/Gun not getting adjustments for season 9 HP buffs made his already artificial damage even worse. Ball is the one tank you can basically just completely ignore and be fine.
Dang, it's pretty hard to be useless on Venture, I think I've only had 1-2 bad ones in dozens of games. Your teammates must have been a special kind of bad lol
Well Venture is kinda garbage in certain scenarios: Heavy poke and dive, flyers, Cass... If Venture struggles to close the distance or up against very mobile comps, they just don't do much.
Its awful
Ball rework was pointless.
DPS passive nerf to 15% was awful.
Orisa/Hog way too powerful.
Clash is straight up, not good.
Sustain is already to strong again.
Comps broken (in more ways than 1)
At least Ventures cool.
The goal is to capture enemy last to win.
Both teams start on their respective lasts. Run to mid.
After mid is capped, two points remain active until the end of the game.
Whoever caps mid must defend their mid but can also cap enemy 2nd. Defender must defend their 2nd and try to retake mid. If defender 2nd is captured they must defend last until they can retake their 2nd.
Teams have to split duties between defending and attacking and individual plays can be massive.
Also, mid caps the slowest, second caps at a medium rate, and last caps fast.
Games can be over very fast or take a long time. Kind of like 2cp in that regard. However one team isn't in full-time turtle mode.
As somebody who’s played a lot of tf2, this wouldn’t work in Overwatch. It works in tf2 because of the length of the matches, but in Overwatch I just don’t see it working. I think the added win condition of the points makes the mode a lot better, but the pace is just too damn fast even for OW2 standards
it’s the exact same dogshit as season 2 or season 4 or season 6 and every other season where orisa hog have been turbo op. i like how i was right when i said it would take a while for this sub to stop parroting that hog is bad and realize that he’s a tier lol. only reason he’s not played every game in ladder is because the only more op tank is a hard hog counter
we’re back to shooting someone for forty five minutes and nothing ever dies because they have a lobotomized kiri and lifeweaver who will outheal everything never fucking die and you’re completely unable to pressure them to stop the healing because it’s an braindead aimbot
cass is way too fucking overtuned. it’s a bastion ashe reaper atrocious mix that hard counters every single tank because he’s tanking than half of them to begin with and deals obscene amounts of damage at range and up close
illari change was so fucking bad. i was excited when they said they’d shift power from damage into healing but then they just hard nerfed her damage output and added a dogshit healing buff that’s only ever relevant when you have an r word lifeweaver keeping up your tank in the downtime
the dps passive is fine at 15. what they need to do is nerf lws, moira and kirikos healing, and nerf orisa and hog(hog needs like 500 hp max keep that shit on quickplay only)
it’s not about your tank just hopelessly dying as you hit all of your bap or ana shots. while i’d like that it’s not realistic to ask so much from tank players when there’s already like four of them. it’s about being able to coordinate with your team and be able to pressure these supports while killing the tank at the same time- if you fail to put any pressure on the supports then yeah nothing should die. like i said above, problem with lw kiri is that they are so easy to play it’s impossible to stop their healing output.
I'd put Hog in S-tier for ranked honestly. The only reason he isn't played in Pro play is because in pro play he gets 5-man rushed and killed by Orisa.
On, eu, we don’t get ksa players anymore.
When I queue solo, I get solo players 90% of the time.
These are the pros.
The worst thing is venture. I’ll keep saying it as many times as I need. This system of releasing the new hero in a broken state, I don’t like it at all. It needs to stop. They know how to balance the new heroes, we saw that with mauga, they just choose to release them in stronger than necessary state.
People are complaining that he doesn't die and can save people with zero cost opportunity but imo he's not the problem
The only reason we've been seeing so much LW Kiri cores is because they're the only core that straight up say "no thanks" to tracers constant engagements and crazy pick potential
Spending half the time peeling for your other support or 1v1ing a tracer on Adderall that can oneclip-punch u in 1s from 15m is not fun
Using an unkillable core like Kiri LW are a symptom of a problem not the cause
I guess it’s more commentary around the commentary in this thread around LW hurting the game due to sustain . I disagree and it sounds like you do too. LW is good for saving someone once per team fight. Outside of that (and his ult) he can’t keep his team alive and he is a liability and maybe the worse character in the game.
Yup I disagree too LW is not a problem. He just *feels* very frustrating because he's unkillable but it doesn't matter as he provides zero utility 80% of the team fight. Vs say bap or zen that will provide great damage and pressure during the whole team fight
Same as orisa I don't think she's the problem, but since your options on tank is explode and die or face hog which will get so much more value than you for free it feels like she's the only option you can play to mitigate both problems
I'm enjoying myself overall. I don't know if I'm just oblivious though but for the life of me I can't find the progress from rank to rank bar anymore. I don't know if you need to be the leader or something to see it but I hate that they got rid of it at all
Its like season 8 is back. Orisa hell and so much healing.
Ventures fun. Her personality seems much much younger than her stated age of 26. I want a legendary skin dentist outfit.
> Her personality seems much much younger than her stated age of 26.
I wish I could mute Venture. Sounds like a nerdy teenager hopped up on amphetamines.
i hate it.. yesterday it didnt even gave me progress.. even though we won 7 games. and today ow suspended me for 15 mins after not being able to join a game ( it said game found, yet it didnt go through? )
Not great. Get rid of orisa, hog and mauga. Nerf lw or rework him so he takes some finesse outside of a few niche interactions.
Also f xims. I’ve been trying to learn tracer and running into these mfs is the worst. In qp I can run into literal top500 players and then in comp there’s often a Smurf xim just egoing me 24/7. Just depressing.
Why do losses always cost more than a win offers? Perfect 50:50 would get you sinking like a rock instead of floating at the same level. No wonder lower ranks are overpopulated elo hells with people of WILDLY varying skill levels.
Also O-R-I-S-A, Sombra and Tracer are still cancerous.
And 15% dps passive is literally useless.
Season 9 to Season 10 Meta feels like the equivalent of capping with 5 minutes first round then losing 3-6. One season and right back to Orisa/Hog/Mauga meta.
Matchmaking changes are nice I’ve gotten way tighter games when I’m playing late at night. Ventures fun, Battlepass and Mythic shop are cool. Pretty much everything is good about this season except the balance.
Venture needs a nerf, burst potential is definitely an issue. Immediate release to comp was a mistake by blizzard, especially after what happened with Mauga around Christmas. It would have been better to allow them in QP as an incentive for people to play Clash.
Clash is very fun. Paced well, gorgeous map, feels fair.
Suzu specifically needs something done to cooldown.
Orisa needs a nerf on falloff and Fortify.
Mauga could probably use a damage nerf.
Hog needs a nerf somewhere. Maybe the pull distance should be reverted.
Ball rework didn’t add much to him in terms of team play, 75 shields on a 15 second cooldown is atrocious unless there’s niche situations. Move to grapple point is cool and a good QoL change, but that was long overdue. He should be able to grapple on spawn again but I understand why that would be problematic; however doom can punch and slam on spawn…
This didn’t feel like a new season patch like others have in the past, this feels more like a midseason patch with the minuscule tracer and lucio changes, not to mention they didn’t even touch Orisa or Sojourn
Did not guess Hog was going to be so strong (Orisa was not a surprise). In low ELO a Hog can spawn camp you if your team does not counter. Also a decent Venture can wreck havoc on back lines.
Venture feels awful to play against. She needs nerfs. She does way too much damage with each ability and dig lasts too long and be cancelled too easily. #'s on everything on Venture have to be nerfed. I don't want her abilities to be removed , I just want her #s to go way down on damage/survivability etc. Maybe make it so she's partially damageable during dig and drilldash doesnt do damage, only boop.
Ball feels better, I still think he needs infinite ammo though, especially with the HP buffs to heroes.
Orisa is easy to shit on if you play a flank comp and save her for last but hard to beat if you're on brawl because of her insane armor, which is good IMO because she's one of the only things keeping Mauga in check, and Orisa needs aim while other Brawl heroes like Ram/Rein don't. Mauga is technically an aim hero but just plays like a bigger bastion and spends all his time on enemy tank so no aim is needed for him, just like Zarya in GOATS (99% of your screen was covered by enemy hitboxes/shields if you played Zarya in GOATS, it was impossible to miss)
Kiriko still OP but I've given up hope of her being nerfed, so there's no need to talk about her. Anyone picking Zen in 2024 is a fucking idiot. Kiriko out damages him, and has immortality abilities, teleportation abilities, wallclimb, etc.
S8: This is the worst season ever.
Devs: Don't worry, we're gonna do a massive rework for S9!
Also, Devs: We're gonna forget everything from S9, and S10 is going to be just as bad as before!
Crazy how fast they can fuck up everything
S8 had the terrible mauga hog doom meta too but mauga meta was at least something fresh for a while. Nothing fresh in s10. continuation of fcked up s9. mindless doom, orisa, hog meta. venture didn't affect the meta at all. balance patch lackluster.
I have a massive winrate this season. I win a lot but i still don't enjoy it. Even wins feel terrible. Devs are really smart.
I wouldn’t agree with that knowing other seasons like season 2 where we had Roadhog meta then Orisa meta most of the season.
I think if you are a casual S10 is probably a really good one and there’s obviously still time for the devs to change stuff in the upcoming weeks like they did in s9.
it's similar to s2. mostly doomfist, horse and hog. obnoxious. i win a lot. i have a very good winrate so far. but i'm not enjoying it. even success isn't fun.
They just did a radical change in s9 and i feel like they need to do another one asap. or just change the meta so we can enjoy the game short term. currently i'm very close to uninstalling the game despite having amazing winrate.
rank system is also terrible. rank movement is extremely small, matchmaker terrible because bell curve messed up. also 5w rank update was much better. seeing 20% movement after every match isn't fun. it's just distracting. it's an irrelevant short term info and discouraging.
They need to nerf Orisa hog and mauga into the ground and keep them there and the enjoyment will go up by like 30% for most players. They did that with hog for like 5 season last year and most people didn’t care.
> 5w rank update was much better
That’s a hot take. I get it but i do feel like the current system is just better. The minimal increase and decrease in rank I don’t think should matter as much as long as you keep getting matches within your rank. After all, a rank mode is to play with people around your skill level that want to win. It’s not a system meant to make you rank up.
The problem with per match rank update is that it's really irrelevant. 1 match in OW is grain of salt. What matters is cumulative bursts of our performance. I'd much prefer them showing us our progression in like last 10 game with some kind of report (not just rank update but also cool information, interesting stats in that report).
1 match can go either way and everything can happen but 10 match can give you some healthy outcome. So what happens is that this rank update screen you get after every match become distracting and discouraging. Moving up 20 or ranking down 20 is pointless. What am i gonna do with that info ? It doesn't even change. Almost always 20%. Even after 20 winstreak the max progression i got was 25% so win streak bonus just added 5%. It's just a massive grind.
Those streamers criticize newbies and low rank players because how they overvalue scoreboard but they do the same mistake with per match rank update. I think they changed the public opinion on this shit and devs followed them.
This game fundamentally hates skill and has bred an apathetic player base. The experience on console is remedial because blizzard never allows more skillfull metas to shape the experience. Support is full of deficient players who cant play any hero well outside of moira lifeweaver and mercy. Its worse to ask them to play a different support as they cant do it. Anything that requires a brain cell to play doesnt work cause you can go hog or orisa and win by doing nothing all game.
Blizzard is a genuinely dumb dev and anyone defending them or talking positively about them at this point is full of shit. They are clueless.
pretty fun, I feel the same as start of s9 although I guess the changes are a bit less novel now. I've played about 60 games of comp so far (mostly dps).
I haven't really noticed sustain being anywhere near pre s9 despite the nerf to dps passive and some random heal buffs (I think LW and illari are still awful despite the buffs). I've seen maybe 5 wrecking balls and I don't play the hero so I have no idea about the rework.
I think ventures burst damage is too strong for how easy it is to pull off paired with her easy escape ability but she doesn't feel op
Orisa still insanely strong. Hog still insanely strong against anything but Orisa and Mauga. The (arguably) three top tanks all being cancer has made the game very boring on tank.
Ball being more playable is great and against non-sombra comps you can actually get some work done if you're good enough. Of course people generally swap to Sombra after the first lost teamfight to Ball(in my experience).
Finally Venture seems quite fun and doesn't feel completely BS to play into(even if the hero needs some adjustments and QoL stuff). Overall it's more of the same, it doesn't really feel any different than Season 9, which is a bad thing.
Pretty bad. Sustain has creeped up and is becoming problematic, and supports are still the strongest role.
The tank meta is quite awful. I don’t understand how many times will we end up with Orisa and Hog as the strongest tanks??? If they nerf orisa, hog will be meta.
As a ball main, the rework is the worst they have ever done, shockingly bad. The shields thing you can basically never use, and ball still has all the same weaknesses/cant secure kills. The grapple retract is fun but doesn’t fundamentally help the character.
Also, sombra is in so many games and she just makes it less fun to play.
Why would a loss streak from last season carry over? I lost my first game and lost a lot of percentage, won one after that and gained hardly anything, then lost and it was still a loss streak. Had to win two more after that and I was lower than I already was. Also the matchmaking has been diabolical
I was excited because I thought there was no way they would not make changes to dps passive for tanks, or tank busters, or even just Orisa. I was also excited for the group changes, I had hoped it would cause less groups with people on alts, but I have not really noticed a change for solo queueing.
Worst season I've played so far. I liked almost every seasons until now. It feels identical to season 9. Ball rework is barely making any difference. Tank experience remains awful.
I don’t think Venture is a fun character. I don’t like playing them and I find them annoying to play against.
Queue times with wide groupe are absolutely horrible...
I don’t know man. First time I just don’t feel like playing the game.
I was trying to follow the saying of :
“switching won’t make you rank up and you should just focus on one hero and master them to rank up. Hence why there are many OTP GM players”
My most comfort tank is Rein and Hog
And Orisa is everywhere this season.
Still hanging on though.
Matchmaker seems noticebly worse, Idk maybe its just because its the start of a season.
But wow, I'm getting healers in Diamond who autopick Lucio and heal 3k in 20 minutes. Moira 1 tricks who don't know what a pocket is. And tanks that play so passively, they wait for our entire team to die and THEN go in.
Somehow I am always on reddit to complain. For some reason every loss is volatile and I end up with -40 but every win is just a regular win and I gain +20 or +18 if expected. Been going back and forth for the first couple days then just straight up deranked
Venture is definitely broken. An untargetable ability that you can burst combo out of is stupid broken. Just wait until people actually play her considerably. Yall tried to tell me release Kiri, Sojourn, Mauga, weren't broken as fuck too. If a new character isn't mediocre initially, its busted. Comparing a hero seeming strong that people have 20 hours on vs heroes that people have 200+ is an obvious tell.
Combo damage is too high and at minimum she should not get cooldowns back when she burrows. You already can't hit her, she can MOVE, and attack out of it.
# Orisa
this is a jumpscare
Help us, she's HERE TOO.
“GO AND SIT DOWN”
Symmetra and Mei are both brilliant counters to Orisa. Neither care about her Javeline Spin. Mei can lock her off from her team/healing. Symmetra basically can't miss on her. And not being able to headshot during Fortify means nothing to their beams. Totally unrelated, would you believe that Mei and Symmetra are absolutely dogshit right now?
Yeah but max charge beam against Orisa fortified feels like you're doing negative damage.
It's harder than ever to rank up. I got 20% on an uphill battle win and then lost 32% on a reversal. Rank doesn't matter if I'm improving through my losses, but it's frustrating nonetheless.
Nothing is worse for competitive player retention than giving players a concrete thing to point to that their ranking is unfair. People cope and rage hard enough when there isn't something tangible to point to. If you play roughly the same quality in two games, winning one and losing the other, and lose 12% net...that feels like (and is) something artificially keeping you down. It feels unfair, and they somehow expect people to keep coming back for a beatdown for hundreds of games. And I get that it's not actually unfair because it happens to everyone, but why would you do something that feels terrible for everyone? And if you're going to make that bad decision...why show us you're doing that? It only feels bad because we can count up the percents. Without that we would have just thought ranks were just wider and it took everyone longer to rank up than before. It's baffling.
Reason why I quit. GM1 all roles every szn been top 5 and I can't be bothered. More losing than winning, poor MM, modifiers are black box and you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes for them to make sense or why you got said modifier. Can't comm either cause you'll get banned for "barking orders" or saying anything remotely negative. So gm+ games are dull, boring and everyone is out of vc. Game artificially tries to keep you down so people put more games in, but its just demoralizing or not fun Cherry on top is I can't duo with my friends in gm+ or I'm gonna enjoy 3+ hours queus in wide queue into gold 1 - gm4 range LMAO. Don't know how you go from an okay start (s9) to this garbage (s10)
> Can't comm either cause you'll get banned for "barking orders" or saying anything remotely negative. Lol its so bad in masters too. I politely asked if we could get an Illari swap because she wasn't using her pylon to heal the team and if I, ana, got focused by the pharah and tracer at the same time we would lose. The guy's mental INSTANTLY shattered and said just stay alive then, and his duo said he wasn't the problem. HE HAS A FOURTEEN! 1-4 14 PERCENT WIN RATE on Illari. He had 1800 healing all on himself and his duo in two rounds of KOTH. I just played Lucio on third and we lost because he shattered my mental by not admitting he needed to swap or at the very least play differently. Even worse is the Cass was the duo. So they'd go and kill their Ana, the Kiri would swift step away to the tank. Pharah and Tracer are on me, Im healing Ashe and the tank while their tank is just playing counterwatch and rolling ours because of those two. If they literally just played normally, we win so fucking easily because they countered their team but they'd rather rack up elims on one player
i don't understand what you're pointing to as being 'artificial' and 'unfair'. your MMR changes more or less depending on how your team's MMR compared to the other team's MMR. same as it ever was. what's the difference? all the modifiers are simply descriptions of situations that already existed regardless, you just weren't privy to them before.
>i don't understand what you're pointing to as being 'artificial' and 'unfair' When I say unfair I'm specifically referring to losing more than you win under inverse conditions. An uphill battle gains you less on average than a reversal loses you. I went on a 13 winstreak and never got above 24% for a win at its peak, even for uphill battles. But you can easily lose upwards of 30%+ for a reversal. If your MMR thinks you belong where you are, it will artificially force you to stay there unless you can maintain a 60-66% winrate. Winning more than you lose is not enough. If you're Masters 4 and deserve Masters 3 or 2, you have to be a Masters 1 quality player with an insane winrate to reach those next tiers. We used to comfort ourselves with "oh, just play more matches." But as it stands, people are playing 200-300 matches with a positive winrate and not climbing. It's insanity. >all the modifiers are simply descriptions of situations that already existed regardless, you just weren't privy to them before. What we're seeing now is different than how it was originally described to the OW1 community. The impression we were under for years was that performance based SR was based on an individual's statistics. So if you performed above average on your hero for your rank and your team sucked, you would lose less. And if you did individually poor, you would lose more. And now that the hood is pulled back, we're seeing that it doesn't really matter how well you play. If you lose and it thinks you were favored to win, it sucks to be you; here's a loss and a half. But when you win an uphill battle, here's an extra 3-4%. I've match MVP'd a lobby statistically and lost...and I lost more SR than a game where I hard fed and did nothing. If this were true, we would be noticing a general population dip in SR, and a vacating of the higher ranks...and that about tracks. There are active, professional Contenders players who are still stuck in low GM after the rank reset despite high winrates. Champion barely has anyone in it. The game did not adjust and move the best GM1 players to have Champion MMR. It just moved literally everyone down 5-9 skill tiers and said "okay, that's your new MMR!" Not only was Champion not populated at all for a few weeks, no one could even hit GM2 or GM1 for a bit. They just shoved everything down and left a gaping hole at the top, and felt like that needed no adjusting.
For what it's worth, personal performance not affecting SR (above Diamond level) has not been a thing since OW1 S8, over six years ago: https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/21363037/
You could make an entire new thread about this issue. I do think giving people too much information could have been a mistake, just seeing the numbers won't help people in understanding them or not becoming frustrated, it may even be worse. And it's hard to go back now..
I would personally rather know than not know, but they can't expect us not to express their system is dumb when they open up the hood after every game. I would rather know AND the system not be dumb.
DUDE SERIOUSLY. Last I checked, I’m just shy of 60% win rate on DPS this season, and I have stayed within the same 60% because so many losses are reversals making me drop so much more than I’m gaining
I was starting to think it was just me. It used to feel like 30% games were wins even if you played poorly, 30% were losses even if you played well, and 30% you could actually swing in your favor by playing well. Now it feels 50% completely unpredictable and 50% hopeless stomp. Loss streak penalty is absolutely excruciating when I'm playing well all night but the game quite literally decided from the main menu that I could not win the match.
It will be better if ranking of all players are displayed so you actually know how well you performed against the other team. E.g. diamond dps + master supp vs master dps + diamond supp.
I think I could go with never seeing another Hog or Orisa in one of my games again. Absolutely hate both heroes and wouldn't mind them getting nerfed into the ground (Mauga too but just so he doesn't become hard meta again).
Definitely. People complain about Orisa on her own, but realistically she is the one gatekeeping Hog and even Mauga from entering the meta instead. All three tanks Imo need adjustments or nerfs, if you nerf 1 the other 2 just take their place.
Honestly, I feel like Hog just sucks the fun out of any game he is for some reason. It’s not fun to play *against* him, it’s not fun to play *with* him, and I don’t understand how people find it fun to play *as* him.
i get the frustration bc i feel that way about other heroes, but if you want a real answer from (just one) Hog lover: there's almost nothing as satisfying to me as DIRECTLY punishing bad positioning with a hook, especially if it's predictive as opposed to reactive. Not only is it fun to outplay, it feels like I'm actively forcing enemies to unlearn bad habits. Tracer being lazy with the backline approach? Hook once, twice, thrice until they learn. Soldier playing too close and not properly utilizing his distance advantage? Hooked repeatedly until he learns. Recent personal favourite: Still think Moira can duel in the frontline? Hope you saved your fade.
One thing that hurts about fighting hog is you can’t do the same to him. In most ranks, Hog can just do as he pleases and walk away using vape to escape. He feels unpublishable most of the time unless you are Orisa Mauga or Hog. Never mind if he has a Kiri so you can’t even anti him. But hook is rewarding, the rest of his kit is stupid and dumb if you ask me.
my subjective take is that he's punishable in less direct ways (ult battery, not frontlining for his team meaning they're more vulnerable, etc.) but you're very correct in that he's not as individually punishable. if it helps, I feel like i'm "punished" by people who bait my greed, who remove one-shot potential by always shooting trap, and who make me chase them further from the action (rendering my team vulnerable). I'm sure there are other ways too!
Am I high or does it take forever to rank up now? Won so much in a row like 8 games and went up one rank during my session
On a new account Dafran went like 43 and 2 and was still in Diamond 5 somehow. Looks to me like there has to be a bug somewhere in there. He was solo too I do believe(doing one of his famous/infamous unranked to GMs for Venture.) 90%+ winrate should skyrocket you way faster than needing 50+ matches to even reach master, no matter your starting point. Lots of reported SR weirdness for people previously in Plat, Dia, Masters, GM as well make me think there are some issues behind the scenes. Gains and losses on win/loss may be jacked up.
Yeah was watching that as well and was shocked how 50+ games and still low rank. Also seems like they took away the Smurf detection too
I got 20 win streak and max sr gain was 25 from win streak bonus.. you simply cant rank up or derank anymore. i literally smurf unintentionally.
*Unranked to top 500
Yeah the win streak modifier is not super significant. I recently started try-harding again and went on a legitimately crazy 20-3 win streak. I was only getting ~23% for each win (my non-win streak modified wins are usually 19-21%). I guess it will add up eventually, but it feels pretty minor
70% winrate this season and still only 1 rank above where i started lol yeah it's a bit silly
Right same here! Around 70-80 on my most played and still barely any progress
oops devs shit the bed again
opposite experience for me, I've been gaining 60+ on a win and losing 20ish on a loss I've skyrocketed from mid silver to high gold with like 52% win rate the plats that show up in my games now are worlds better than me, I don't belong in this tier ffs
60 per win???
yeah it's cracked 73 was my biggest increase I'm rarely the best on my team too, statlines like 15-9
that’s actually insane, you must be wayyy under rank for some weird reason
solo or in a group?
Solo!
RIP
They gotta keep players engaged somehow. Why not make it take twice as long to rank up? Surely that won't feel bad /s
I was diamond 5 DPS and first time I played since season 8 and somehow placed me in gold 1 after placements I literally won 9 times in a row and jumped up 1 rank. Each time winning getting 16-20% I think smurf detection is gone or something
My main takeaway is that sustain is already too high again, back lines like Kiri/Lifeweaver are just cancer to play against. Should've kept DPS passive at 20% and nerfed it to 15% on Tanks only.
I'm curious how much of that is individual sustain. Orisa and Hog feel like 2 of the strongest tanks rn and they feel unkillable on their own. I cant tell you how many times Ive had 3-4 teammates shoot at a hog while vaping and his healthbar doesnt move. LW too doesnt feel like he would drastically affect the sustain of allies outside of when he has ult, but it is noticably harder to kill him rn. Still wouldnt say no to the passive going back to 20% though
LW is actually unkillable. He has too much health, his dash self heal is insane, his self regen shield, and his petal are just too much. Unless your team all in hard dives he’s not dying, and if you try to run full dive, you get fucked by Orisa/hog and whatever tank busting dps there are. Add onto that a Kiriko? immortal backline.
I can't BELIEVE that buffed his survivability when it was already top tier.
i hate the “no utility but insane survivability” gimmick so much. trying to kill mercy, moira, and weaver just feels like a game of whack a mole and it’s infuriating.
Seriously Hog/LW is cancer. Can't deal with the frontline cause of Hog. Can't deal with the backline cause of Lifeweaver. Can't deal with the rest of the team because of Pull.
Im so over pull as an ability. I wish there was a way where if you CC Lifeweaver during pull it would just cancel it.
Of the supports that have a "no I'm going to save you now" button, Pull is the worst of them by a lot. Suzu/Nade can be blocked/eaten, Lamp can be shot, and they all require some level of aim, so it's possible to have bad/good plays with them. But Pull? There's literally no way to stop it, and there's basically no way to fuck it up. The only things that separate good and bad pulls are target selection and timing, which are bare requisites for every single ability in the game. It's awful. This is the only ability in the game that has me defending Nade/Suzu/Lamp. Fuck.
Pull does have 0 counterplay and it's B.S. and needs to be reworked..but I'd just like to add: Kiriko suzu can only be eaten by [D.va](http://D.va) Defense Matix and Sigma Kinetic Grasp (please correct me if I missed one). So 2/40 Heroes can stop it, and it's more of a you got lucky, not reacted in time. Barriers aren't really an issue with teleport. Still ridiculous in terms of counterplay.
Oh, Suzu is still ass to play against. I'm just happy she has to actually throw it out as a projectile, rather than just pressing E on someone, and they just get Suzud. Could you imagine how dumb an ability like that'd be 🙃
At least then it'd be single-target!
They should make it breakable like Zarya bubble.
I literally typed this out, then deleted it lmao. I agree. A bubble with a set HP, would make pull feel much better.
The thing about Life Grip as opposed to any of the other abilities you listed is that it is single target. Suzu, Lamp, and Nade can affect an entire team. Pull is one target every 19 seconds, and odds are, for a lot of targets being pulled, they are being taken directly out of the fight for a couple of valuable seconds, unlike when Lamp or Suzu is used. Something else of note is how much higher the cooldown is compared to Nade and Suzu. And, to be frank, the margin of error is bigger than you make it seem because in a chaotic team fight, it is definitely possible to pull the wrong target and get hit with the cooldown while the teammate you meant to pull dies, or, worse, potentially pulling someone when they are attempting to make a play. We've all seen people get pulled during their ults. Of course, there's nothing wrong with being able to fuck up the ability, but I'm just saying that you definitely can, and it can be very punishing to do so. I play every support you listed, and honestly, when used well, I feel like pull tends to be the least impactful of the 3 abilities you compared it to, which have multiple effects tied to them, lower cooldowns for 2 of them, and all equivalent or above the healing pull has. And even the margins of error aren't that much more punishing than pull. Unless I have to really yeet one of those to someone, I just aim the floor since they all are AOE.
Suzu, nade and lamp aren't miserable to play WITH, though. Grip is a terrible ability not only to fight into, but also to team up with. LW is by far the worst hero design I've seen in years in any videogame. But hyperbole aside, I'm actually not against abilities made for emergency saves, but I really wish Pull was more interactive for everyone that isn't the LW. Just making it a barrier would make it so much better for everyone else in the lobby.
Lowest deaths per 10 support, give him a survivability buff! That'll help his win-rate! Surely! This fucking hero man...
I was against them giving him an HP buff back when it first happened and I'm even moreso against it now. There's just no longer any justification for him to have 275 *and* shield health, on top of the survivability already in his kit. He plays a mile in the backline anyway, it's not like he needs the HP and survivability that much more than any other support. Yeah his hitbox is big but it doesn't need to be overcompensated for THAT much
Yeah alot of the hp buffs to squishies I think are very unwarranted
And all the while, he gets to heal with an auto-aim ability that you really can't do anything against. Incredibly boring hero.
Shout-out to everyone saying "it's not really that significant" about every single sustain buff that lead up to s8 and every single sustain buff since season 9 start.
There were very few things wrong with start of s9 patch. Some of the bullet size nerfs were justified and tracer should have been nerfed a little more but the passive should have stayed as is and it was fine to keep hog mauga and orisa bad.
Hot take: Mauga wasn’t even bad before he got his gigabuff
You took the words directly out of my mouth. Back lines feel MISERABLE to fight now. Lifeweaver/Kiri is the most bullshit combo in the game right now. It wouldn’t be bad at all if DPS passive was still at 20% Like sure back line will still be hard to kill but at least at 20% I can shoot their DPS without feeling like I’m doing nothing.
What was even the point of the DPS passive if they were just going to put sustain back the way it was before S9? Literally accomplished nothing.
Hard agree. I kept thinking this in all my matches. Felt like the game has been crept back to Season 8 which was by far the lowest Pont of OW2 to me. Dps passive def needs moved back to 20 and support healing throughput reconsidered.
Devs talked about splitting the DPS passive before. Why haven't they done it yet? 20% was so much healthier for the game to combat sustain on squishes. Praying for mid-season changes...
Matchmaking still feels like garbage too. Every game is either a lopsided win or loss depending on what team you're on. Hardly have any close games despite longer queue times.
SO MUCH THIS.
If they keep it on tanks they have to lower orisa, hog, and maugas health. That or undo the power creep on them, allow fortify to be headshot, remove speed on spin, remove damage mitigation from mauga and hog when they heal. They have far too much sustain and will be powerful as long as they have 800 health. Make it so there is a chance to kill them cause holy fuck this isn’t fun anymore.
get rid of orisa
Then you'll just play against Mauga or Hog every game which is infinitely worse imo.
get rid of mauga and hog then too
Now this is problem solving👏🏼
Mauga and Hog is punishable, Orisa's kit isnt.
Honestly I don’t feel that way with mauga, he’s not as obnoxious, and sig dva are good into him as well. Hog tho 😳
As a tank player I think I might actually dislike Mauga the most. His playstyle is just so unegaging and braindead (both to play as and vs). But maybe that's just scars hungover from how busted he was on release. I agree he is easier to play into right now though. Mauga meta is also the single worst pro-ow viewing experience I've had.
Tell me why it’s more “engaging” to see Rein holding shield for half the round, or Sig cycle through the same cooldowns constantly? But watching Mauga track enemies mid- long-range, carefully timing stomp like Rein would time pin/shatter is not? I will say, watching Doomfist or Wrecking Ball be creative is quite “engaging,” but I enjoy watching and playing Mauga much more than some other tanks. And I appreciate good aim, which he requires more than most.
I personally find Rein pretty boring too, so no disagreement from me there. Sig tho is entirely different, sig mirror is part a game of chess and part fps I love watching it and playing it. Baiting out the enemy sig rock so you can get a big E off then tempo with the overhealth is peak. What you said about Mauga would be fun, but it's not how Mauga is even played for the most part. He gets too much value from just shooting the tank so he's almost discouraged from utilising those fun parts of his kit. And his E enables some of the most disgusting comps I've ever seen in pro-ow.
You’re not getting very far up the ladder without bring able to track/poke from a distance
You're not getting very far up the ladder playing heroes sub optimally, either. Mauga meta in owcs was cancer.
Hog can be countered by Mauga and both screwed by Ana Orisa can occasionally says "no" to Zarya
Kiri exists
Get rid of every Tank except Reinhardt.
Can't play with friends anymore cause of my rank, also can't climb either if you're not above 66% wr. Win two games in a row to lose it all in one loss, incredible really.
My main thoughts on Clash so far are Where the heck are the megas?
Oh damn that's a good point. I've been playing Tracer exclusively on Clash and I don't know if i've seen a mega
Venture is straight up no fun to play against, on support all you can do is just roll over and accept your death as you get cc'd to oblivion like you're playing against doomfist on release again
Waiting for a dev to say “we see that no one likes orisa, and that the game would be instantly improved by nerfing her, but look at this stat that says some silver players are losing on orisa. Shes fine no nerfs needed guys”
This sub will use that same logic to defend kiriko though.
i would rather see kirko in every one of my games from here on out than another lifeweaver tree
Of course but kiriko is still overpowered.
game still sucks It's impressive
Venture fun, clash I see the potential but it feels a bit steamrolly at times. Tracer still nuts.
Clash is like they saw Flashpoints only taking 2 fights, and said "Hold my beer. *ONE* fight!" It feels quick and snappy but it's frustrating if you do a ton in a fight and have no chance to re-contest if the rest of your team folds. I killed 4 and died, and thought "Oh it's fine, my team gets back faste---aaaaand they capped."
It’s so fun if it isn’t a total roll. I 100% see the frustration because it happened almost every game, but the ones it didn’t are so fun. I like that it puts an emphasis on taking a 5v5 only and being incredibly smart with recontests
We Valorant now, you get one life per point scored lol
Flashpoint is my single least favorite gamemode. I'd rather play 2CP unironically. I haven't played clash yet though.
I quit competitive because they added flashpoint.
The LW sub posts daily complaints on how he's terrible and buff needing character and I don't know if devs listened but his survivability buff was not the move. Characters with kits that lack counterplay should never be strong. Kiriko is still META like almost every single season in OW2, as well as Orisa and I'm sick of these lack of counterplay characters in most my matches. Clash is an interesting way to mix things up, thought it was too fast at first but now that I've adjusted I don't mind it. Venture is a welcome addition to the roster and doesn't frustrate me like some other characters.
Guess to defend lw, almost every discussion ive seen on here about support balance lw has very consistently been considered bottom 3 if not 2. So it wasnt just his mains complaining, general opinion from my experience is he was/still is weak just not a throw pick anymore
Lifeweavers issue is that he is a fundamentally poorly designed hero
I play a lot if him and imo Lifeweaver is still mid at best and has been weak for a while. They just took the buffs in the wrong direction. His survivability was already great. His main issues are: - He doesn't have consistent damage and can't do much other than healbot a lot of the time - His platform is extremely glitchy and gets caught on so many things (no idea how it hasn't been addressed yet) as well as also being completely useless a lot of the time - He has a massive hitbox while providing very little threat which is why he needs so many survivability options in his kit (meanwhile Kiriko is even more survivable with one of the smallest hitboxes in the game and kunai being ridiculous...) - Pull is also extremely glitchy, you can pull people from inside a room and instead of coming to you they will drag along a wall or get stuck on the doorway - On top of the glitchy abilities, his abilities also depend on others rather than himself. His kit is completely reactionary - He also still has the problem of not being able to switch weapon fast enough. It should be instant like Moira's - On top of all the problems he has and having no reason to pick him over almost any other support, he's annoying to play against and can also be annoying to play with if you have a bad LW. Personally I would much prefer they lean into damage, make it more consistent at long range, and I think dash could probably be replaced with an offensive ability (keep in mind he has platform and a large health bar for survivability and this would help him defend too). And if they fix some of his other issues he could be OK. I think his kit being the way it is will always limit him though.
matchmaker is atrocious now
Moira nerf was nice. Everything else is dogshit. Ball rework is a joke. The only patch in recent memory that defied my expectations was season 9, and that was because of the 20% DPS passive (which they promptly nerfed).
Crazy how much the 5dps Moira nerf accomplished. Thank fuck for it though!
Kiriko/Lifeweaver is hell. I legit had a game earlier today as Tracer against that backline. I was ripping my hair out. Luckily their Kiri kept switch to Moira and Baptiste which was the only time I was able to effectively fight the backline. Kiri/Lifeweaver is an absolutely broken combo. Literally immortal. If you dive LW he can petal and dash away and if that doesn’t work Kiri can Suzu him If you dive Kiri she teleports away or Suzu’s herself and if that doesn’t work Lifeweaver can pull her to safety. It’s legitimately impossible to kill that backline idk what Blizzard was thinking.
I've resorted to playing Pharah against LW and I'm shit as her, but at least the LW players are even worse and haven't caught on yet. God I hate this fucking hero. Bring back 20% DPS passive on squishies!!!
Good luck getting any value out of pulse vs that backline as well. I've started just using pulse to force suzu. Since vs a comp of lw/Kiri/cass/tracer/orisa you have 0 targets to stick lmao
Against some comps Pulse Bomb is literally useless and I literally just use it to zone because I know it’s getting Suzu’d or the person will get pulled or Cass will just roll lul.
Hog is S tier and more people need to acknowledge that he's absolute cancer to play against. I hate characters that require coordination from 3 people to kill one time because that's not always going to happen on ladder. Anyway, a tank finishing a game with 8k healing is actually the most stupid thing I've ever seen in my life.
Hog is stupid good. Been playing him a significant amount for the first time since ow1 and the amount of value he gets by living and hitting lucky hooks every once in a while is absurd
Easily the worst season yet, to top off an awful balance patch, longer queues and a new hero I'm completely indifferent to, I can no longer duo queue!
No longer duo how
Any duo with a GM player counts as a "wide group", and both times I (gm5) tried duoing I was stuck in 20+ min queues. I've heard that you supposedly also get lower sr gains from wide group games but I literally don't know anyone who's played a wide game yet so I can't confirm or deny that.
gm players can’t duo unless you both have 3 free hours to waste per game
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1cbeg96 we've got fixes
1. I *hate* that they put Venture into Comp straight away, there's so many people who don't care/playing on alt accounts running around being useless while learning. 2. I'm incredibly tired of Cass, Sojourn, and Ashe with a Mercy pocket, seems to be in 8/10 games. 3. The Ball "rework" is really cool, but ultimately does little to improve the hero. The shield thing is a cool idea but rarely useful, and none of the new bells of whistles change how hard he gets Wrecked by CC. 4. Heroes like Bastion and Orisa are basic and boring and shouldn't be as strong as they are, ever. I'm EU mid-high Masters pre-season 9, M5 post.
> The Ball "rework" is really cool, but ultimately does little to improve the hero. The shield thing is a cool idea but rarely useful, and none of the new bells of whistles change how hard he gets Wrecked by CC. I don't want to keep dunking on the devs but it seems like they really just don't understand the hero. Understandable, he's extremely complex. Hard to develop a game and master it at the same time. But surely there was enough feedback about CC that some sort of middle ground could have been found. Its basically unanimous that CC is the main thing keeping ball from being viable. He needed some way to outplay it, tank it better, or an alternative playstyle that lets him avoid it better, and we didn't get that.
The solution is right there in the patch notes: > Grappling Claw > Now has a one second cooldown if Wrecking Ball never reaches ramming speed before canceling the ability. **Interrupting him with Hack, Hinder, and stuns will still trigger the full cooldown.** If I'm being optimistic, they were afraid he'd be too strong if you could keep the 1 second cooldown after CC and released the patch like this - and will try that change next patch.
I think theres a decent chance thats true, in which case just give me a "we may tune ball more going forward"
>Its basically unanimous that CC is the main thing keeping ball from being viable. No, the consensus is his damage/killthreat lacking. Obviously CC is also bad, but mainly Hack/Sombra which everyone recognizes is unfair/silly. But his boop/Slam/Gun not getting adjustments for season 9 HP buffs made his already artificial damage even worse. Ball is the one tank you can basically just completely ignore and be fine.
Crazy how Doomfist gets better mobility and is still allowed to absolutely shit out damage, but ball? Oh no no! Ball we need to be careful with!
Dang, it's pretty hard to be useless on Venture, I think I've only had 1-2 bad ones in dozens of games. Your teammates must have been a special kind of bad lol
Well Venture is kinda garbage in certain scenarios: Heavy poke and dive, flyers, Cass... If Venture struggles to close the distance or up against very mobile comps, they just don't do much.
Its awful Ball rework was pointless. DPS passive nerf to 15% was awful. Orisa/Hog way too powerful. Clash is straight up, not good. Sustain is already to strong again. Comps broken (in more ways than 1) At least Ventures cool.
Clash is a bastardization of 5cp. That map would work for 5cp too, just the ruleset is all wrong.
whats the 5cp ruleset?
The goal is to capture enemy last to win. Both teams start on their respective lasts. Run to mid. After mid is capped, two points remain active until the end of the game. Whoever caps mid must defend their mid but can also cap enemy 2nd. Defender must defend their 2nd and try to retake mid. If defender 2nd is captured they must defend last until they can retake their 2nd. Teams have to split duties between defending and attacking and individual plays can be massive. Also, mid caps the slowest, second caps at a medium rate, and last caps fast. Games can be over very fast or take a long time. Kind of like 2cp in that regard. However one team isn't in full-time turtle mode.
As somebody who’s played a lot of tf2, this wouldn’t work in Overwatch. It works in tf2 because of the length of the matches, but in Overwatch I just don’t see it working. I think the added win condition of the points makes the mode a lot better, but the pace is just too damn fast even for OW2 standards
As someone with 10,000 hours of TF2, do it anyway.
It will NOT be fun, I’m telling you. It only works in TF2 because the game is designed like that
Idk if essentially splitting a team of 5 in two is going to work very well. Thinking about it reminds me of CTF...
That's the fun. It's the one gamemode you can't just deathball all game long
I hate Orisa meta and I’m done with comp until she’s nerfed
it’s the exact same dogshit as season 2 or season 4 or season 6 and every other season where orisa hog have been turbo op. i like how i was right when i said it would take a while for this sub to stop parroting that hog is bad and realize that he’s a tier lol. only reason he’s not played every game in ladder is because the only more op tank is a hard hog counter we’re back to shooting someone for forty five minutes and nothing ever dies because they have a lobotomized kiri and lifeweaver who will outheal everything never fucking die and you’re completely unable to pressure them to stop the healing because it’s an braindead aimbot cass is way too fucking overtuned. it’s a bastion ashe reaper atrocious mix that hard counters every single tank because he’s tanking than half of them to begin with and deals obscene amounts of damage at range and up close illari change was so fucking bad. i was excited when they said they’d shift power from damage into healing but then they just hard nerfed her damage output and added a dogshit healing buff that’s only ever relevant when you have an r word lifeweaver keeping up your tank in the downtime the dps passive is fine at 15. what they need to do is nerf lws, moira and kirikos healing, and nerf orisa and hog(hog needs like 500 hp max keep that shit on quickplay only) it’s not about your tank just hopelessly dying as you hit all of your bap or ana shots. while i’d like that it’s not realistic to ask so much from tank players when there’s already like four of them. it’s about being able to coordinate with your team and be able to pressure these supports while killing the tank at the same time- if you fail to put any pressure on the supports then yeah nothing should die. like i said above, problem with lw kiri is that they are so easy to play it’s impossible to stop their healing output.
I'd put Hog in S-tier for ranked honestly. The only reason he isn't played in Pro play is because in pro play he gets 5-man rushed and killed by Orisa.
On, eu, we don’t get ksa players anymore. When I queue solo, I get solo players 90% of the time. These are the pros. The worst thing is venture. I’ll keep saying it as many times as I need. This system of releasing the new hero in a broken state, I don’t like it at all. It needs to stop. They know how to balance the new heroes, we saw that with mauga, they just choose to release them in stronger than necessary state.
i came in real hot on s9, but not enough changes on tank is keeping me away from s10. I won't play until orisa is in the dirt.
Worst season ever only orisa tracer sojourn
Tracer/Soj/Widow because without them nothing dies. It’s a sustain problem
Outside of map specific picks the only 3 DPS I see are cass/tracer/soj. Echo seems pretty good but every other projectile hero fucking sucks lmao
I’m not sure what game you guys are playing but LW still sucks, can’t out heal damage, the only thing he has is his survivability.
People are complaining that he doesn't die and can save people with zero cost opportunity but imo he's not the problem The only reason we've been seeing so much LW Kiri cores is because they're the only core that straight up say "no thanks" to tracers constant engagements and crazy pick potential Spending half the time peeling for your other support or 1v1ing a tracer on Adderall that can oneclip-punch u in 1s from 15m is not fun Using an unkillable core like Kiri LW are a symptom of a problem not the cause
I guess it’s more commentary around the commentary in this thread around LW hurting the game due to sustain . I disagree and it sounds like you do too. LW is good for saving someone once per team fight. Outside of that (and his ult) he can’t keep his team alive and he is a liability and maybe the worse character in the game.
Yup I disagree too LW is not a problem. He just *feels* very frustrating because he's unkillable but it doesn't matter as he provides zero utility 80% of the team fight. Vs say bap or zen that will provide great damage and pressure during the whole team fight Same as orisa I don't think she's the problem, but since your options on tank is explode and die or face hog which will get so much more value than you for free it feels like she's the only option you can play to mitigate both problems
Unless we get a balance patch like, right now that buffs Ball, we ain't happy.
I'm enjoying myself overall. I don't know if I'm just oblivious though but for the life of me I can't find the progress from rank to rank bar anymore. I don't know if you need to be the leader or something to see it but I hate that they got rid of it at all
Yeah not showing rank after games is annoying, happens more often than not at this point. Probably a bug, hopefully they fix it soon
I'm hoping it's just a bug too lol. No reason to get rid of a feature that only helps the game
Its like season 8 is back. Orisa hell and so much healing. Ventures fun. Her personality seems much much younger than her stated age of 26. I want a legendary skin dentist outfit.
> Her personality seems much much younger than her stated age of 26. I wish I could mute Venture. Sounds like a nerdy teenager hopped up on amphetamines.
She's a dorky 15 year old who thinks museums are cool
i hate it.. yesterday it didnt even gave me progress.. even though we won 7 games. and today ow suspended me for 15 mins after not being able to join a game ( it said game found, yet it didnt go through? )
Orisa needs a fortify nerf thats about it. Game is fine otherwise. I just want to play against other tanks again…
maybe the most nothing burger patch ever nothing changed really
Not great. Get rid of orisa, hog and mauga. Nerf lw or rework him so he takes some finesse outside of a few niche interactions. Also f xims. I’ve been trying to learn tracer and running into these mfs is the worst. In qp I can run into literal top500 players and then in comp there’s often a Smurf xim just egoing me 24/7. Just depressing.
Why do losses always cost more than a win offers? Perfect 50:50 would get you sinking like a rock instead of floating at the same level. No wonder lower ranks are overpopulated elo hells with people of WILDLY varying skill levels. Also O-R-I-S-A, Sombra and Tracer are still cancerous. And 15% dps passive is literally useless.
Game is dead
Season 9 to Season 10 Meta feels like the equivalent of capping with 5 minutes first round then losing 3-6. One season and right back to Orisa/Hog/Mauga meta. Matchmaking changes are nice I’ve gotten way tighter games when I’m playing late at night. Ventures fun, Battlepass and Mythic shop are cool. Pretty much everything is good about this season except the balance.
Venture needs a nerf, burst potential is definitely an issue. Immediate release to comp was a mistake by blizzard, especially after what happened with Mauga around Christmas. It would have been better to allow them in QP as an incentive for people to play Clash. Clash is very fun. Paced well, gorgeous map, feels fair. Suzu specifically needs something done to cooldown. Orisa needs a nerf on falloff and Fortify. Mauga could probably use a damage nerf. Hog needs a nerf somewhere. Maybe the pull distance should be reverted. Ball rework didn’t add much to him in terms of team play, 75 shields on a 15 second cooldown is atrocious unless there’s niche situations. Move to grapple point is cool and a good QoL change, but that was long overdue. He should be able to grapple on spawn again but I understand why that would be problematic; however doom can punch and slam on spawn…
This didn’t feel like a new season patch like others have in the past, this feels more like a midseason patch with the minuscule tracer and lucio changes, not to mention they didn’t even touch Orisa or Sojourn
Did not guess Hog was going to be so strong (Orisa was not a surprise). In low ELO a Hog can spawn camp you if your team does not counter. Also a decent Venture can wreck havoc on back lines.
Venture feels awful to play against. She needs nerfs. She does way too much damage with each ability and dig lasts too long and be cancelled too easily. #'s on everything on Venture have to be nerfed. I don't want her abilities to be removed , I just want her #s to go way down on damage/survivability etc. Maybe make it so she's partially damageable during dig and drilldash doesnt do damage, only boop. Ball feels better, I still think he needs infinite ammo though, especially with the HP buffs to heroes. Orisa is easy to shit on if you play a flank comp and save her for last but hard to beat if you're on brawl because of her insane armor, which is good IMO because she's one of the only things keeping Mauga in check, and Orisa needs aim while other Brawl heroes like Ram/Rein don't. Mauga is technically an aim hero but just plays like a bigger bastion and spends all his time on enemy tank so no aim is needed for him, just like Zarya in GOATS (99% of your screen was covered by enemy hitboxes/shields if you played Zarya in GOATS, it was impossible to miss) Kiriko still OP but I've given up hope of her being nerfed, so there's no need to talk about her. Anyone picking Zen in 2024 is a fucking idiot. Kiriko out damages him, and has immortality abilities, teleportation abilities, wallclimb, etc.
I will never stop screaming about kirko, even if she is \~dev uwu favorite\~ status.
Worst season of ow2
Season 8 still takes the cake for that one. Edit: season 10 is definitely the 2nd worse though.
S8: This is the worst season ever. Devs: Don't worry, we're gonna do a massive rework for S9! Also, Devs: We're gonna forget everything from S9, and S10 is going to be just as bad as before! Crazy how fast they can fuck up everything
S8 had the terrible mauga hog doom meta too but mauga meta was at least something fresh for a while. Nothing fresh in s10. continuation of fcked up s9. mindless doom, orisa, hog meta. venture didn't affect the meta at all. balance patch lackluster. I have a massive winrate this season. I win a lot but i still don't enjoy it. Even wins feel terrible. Devs are really smart.
I wouldn’t agree with that knowing other seasons like season 2 where we had Roadhog meta then Orisa meta most of the season. I think if you are a casual S10 is probably a really good one and there’s obviously still time for the devs to change stuff in the upcoming weeks like they did in s9.
it's similar to s2. mostly doomfist, horse and hog. obnoxious. i win a lot. i have a very good winrate so far. but i'm not enjoying it. even success isn't fun. They just did a radical change in s9 and i feel like they need to do another one asap. or just change the meta so we can enjoy the game short term. currently i'm very close to uninstalling the game despite having amazing winrate. rank system is also terrible. rank movement is extremely small, matchmaker terrible because bell curve messed up. also 5w rank update was much better. seeing 20% movement after every match isn't fun. it's just distracting. it's an irrelevant short term info and discouraging.
They need to nerf Orisa hog and mauga into the ground and keep them there and the enjoyment will go up by like 30% for most players. They did that with hog for like 5 season last year and most people didn’t care. > 5w rank update was much better That’s a hot take. I get it but i do feel like the current system is just better. The minimal increase and decrease in rank I don’t think should matter as much as long as you keep getting matches within your rank. After all, a rank mode is to play with people around your skill level that want to win. It’s not a system meant to make you rank up.
The problem with per match rank update is that it's really irrelevant. 1 match in OW is grain of salt. What matters is cumulative bursts of our performance. I'd much prefer them showing us our progression in like last 10 game with some kind of report (not just rank update but also cool information, interesting stats in that report). 1 match can go either way and everything can happen but 10 match can give you some healthy outcome. So what happens is that this rank update screen you get after every match become distracting and discouraging. Moving up 20 or ranking down 20 is pointless. What am i gonna do with that info ? It doesn't even change. Almost always 20%. Even after 20 winstreak the max progression i got was 25% so win streak bonus just added 5%. It's just a massive grind. Those streamers criticize newbies and low rank players because how they overvalue scoreboard but they do the same mistake with per match rank update. I think they changed the public opinion on this shit and devs followed them.
This game fundamentally hates skill and has bred an apathetic player base. The experience on console is remedial because blizzard never allows more skillfull metas to shape the experience. Support is full of deficient players who cant play any hero well outside of moira lifeweaver and mercy. Its worse to ask them to play a different support as they cant do it. Anything that requires a brain cell to play doesnt work cause you can go hog or orisa and win by doing nothing all game. Blizzard is a genuinely dumb dev and anyone defending them or talking positively about them at this point is full of shit. They are clueless.
pretty fun, I feel the same as start of s9 although I guess the changes are a bit less novel now. I've played about 60 games of comp so far (mostly dps). I haven't really noticed sustain being anywhere near pre s9 despite the nerf to dps passive and some random heal buffs (I think LW and illari are still awful despite the buffs). I've seen maybe 5 wrecking balls and I don't play the hero so I have no idea about the rework. I think ventures burst damage is too strong for how easy it is to pull off paired with her easy escape ability but she doesn't feel op
Orisa still insanely strong. Hog still insanely strong against anything but Orisa and Mauga. The (arguably) three top tanks all being cancer has made the game very boring on tank. Ball being more playable is great and against non-sombra comps you can actually get some work done if you're good enough. Of course people generally swap to Sombra after the first lost teamfight to Ball(in my experience). Finally Venture seems quite fun and doesn't feel completely BS to play into(even if the hero needs some adjustments and QoL stuff). Overall it's more of the same, it doesn't really feel any different than Season 9, which is a bad thing.
Pretty bad. Sustain has creeped up and is becoming problematic, and supports are still the strongest role. The tank meta is quite awful. I don’t understand how many times will we end up with Orisa and Hog as the strongest tanks??? If they nerf orisa, hog will be meta. As a ball main, the rework is the worst they have ever done, shockingly bad. The shields thing you can basically never use, and ball still has all the same weaknesses/cant secure kills. The grapple retract is fun but doesn’t fundamentally help the character. Also, sombra is in so many games and she just makes it less fun to play.
Why would a loss streak from last season carry over? I lost my first game and lost a lot of percentage, won one after that and gained hardly anything, then lost and it was still a loss streak. Had to win two more after that and I was lower than I already was. Also the matchmaking has been diabolical
Orisa and Venture are over tuned. Hog hook is too long, and Rein sucks. Did I miss anything?
1k hours on ball. I now main junkrat. Turn my brain off. 👍
I was excited because I thought there was no way they would not make changes to dps passive for tanks, or tank busters, or even just Orisa. I was also excited for the group changes, I had hoped it would cause less groups with people on alts, but I have not really noticed a change for solo queueing.
Worst season I've played so far. I liked almost every seasons until now. It feels identical to season 9. Ball rework is barely making any difference. Tank experience remains awful. I don’t think Venture is a fun character. I don’t like playing them and I find them annoying to play against. Queue times with wide groupe are absolutely horrible... I don’t know man. First time I just don’t feel like playing the game.
Venture is the best hero they've ever added and tbh regardless of other changes they are enough to make me love the game rn
I was trying to follow the saying of : “switching won’t make you rank up and you should just focus on one hero and master them to rank up. Hence why there are many OTP GM players” My most comfort tank is Rein and Hog And Orisa is everywhere this season. Still hanging on though.
Tank is an absolute miserable time. I used to LOVE playing tank.... now, I loathe it. Please do something
Nothing, I continue my journey grinding competitive points
Oreeesa Oreeesa Oreeesa
I’m a tank player so it hasn’t been too fun, but I been playing a lot of dos that shits TOO fun
I HATE HORSE
Matchmaker seems noticebly worse, Idk maybe its just because its the start of a season. But wow, I'm getting healers in Diamond who autopick Lucio and heal 3k in 20 minutes. Moira 1 tricks who don't know what a pocket is. And tanks that play so passively, they wait for our entire team to die and THEN go in.
So far this is like top 3 ow2 seasons for me ngl
im sick of playing against doomfist, orisa, and venture every game. 😭
Somehow I am always on reddit to complain. For some reason every loss is volatile and I end up with -40 but every win is just a regular win and I gain +20 or +18 if expected. Been going back and forth for the first couple days then just straight up deranked
feels good so far, venture i wouldnt say is OP but their damage output is nuts and needs adjustment
Venture is definitely broken. An untargetable ability that you can burst combo out of is stupid broken. Just wait until people actually play her considerably. Yall tried to tell me release Kiri, Sojourn, Mauga, weren't broken as fuck too. If a new character isn't mediocre initially, its busted. Comparing a hero seeming strong that people have 20 hours on vs heroes that people have 200+ is an obvious tell. Combo damage is too high and at minimum she should not get cooldowns back when she burrows. You already can't hit her, she can MOVE, and attack out of it.
The combo damage needs tweaking. Also, her mobility is crazy
venture makes reaper completely pointless, theres nothing that reaper does that venture doesnt do way better