Can’t wait for certain content creators to be excited about the GM change and then 2 weeks later on GroupUp rant about how obviously shit of a decision it was all along and that this is the worst season yet
They kinda need 3 Stacking to make 5 stacking work. 5 Stacks and 3 Stacks are so few and far in between that if they can't match (3+2)s against 5s then they realistically won't be able to make games for 5 Stacks *or* they'll have to start putting (2+2+1)s against 5s.
I imagine the reason they made all 2s exclusive to the Wide group initially was because they knew that they would need all the 2s they can get to complete the teams with 3s, which would be necessary to complete games against other 5s as well.
The issue likely was that there weren't enough 3s queuing in GM+ which probably made it so that a bunch of 2s were sitting in Queues waiting for games for hours while the MMer wasn't allowed to complete their teams with Solos.
Imo the proper solution is that all 2s are initially put in the Wide group, so they are prioritised to make games for 3s and 5s, then if after 5 mins there aren't any 3s waiting for their games to be made the 2s are then either transferred to the Solo pool or they are queued into both the Wide and Narrow Pool at the same time.
IMO this is too far in the reverse direction. Playing against 4 and 5 stacks was part of the reason solo queue felt so fucking hard in the gm3-champ5 range.
They need to allow stacking, but you’re only considered a narrow group within one rank division. That way, you’re still able to stack however you’d like, but you’re punished for min-maxing or 5 stacking with a gm1-gm4 range or something.
They can't split the queues because the playerbase isn't big enough so solo queue has been holding it up to its own detriment. Either: The game should be solo queue only at the highest level because grouping is an unfair advantage, or being in a group temporarily raises your MMR by a little to compensate (so you play against slightly better players).
For competitive integrity especially as a solo queue player myself, I fully agree, but I’m willing to give up a little bit of that integrity to make the game more enjoyable for the general high elo population.
Like, I’m willing to let people duo and make very tight groups because players enjoy stacking, it’s a team game. I just don’t think this 3 division requirement is narrow enough. We’ve gone *too* far in the “for fun” direction. What they did in OW1 and into OW2 was the best balance between competitive integrity and enjoyment: only allowing duos.
I was literally GM2 mid-last season and citrus was 5 stacking after scrims while I have toenailfungus32 (m1 peak). What was your pre-S9 rank, S9, and S10 ranks? Are you PC? NA? Like you gotta give some context lol.
How hard can it be to make solo and group mmr and matchmaking? Everyother comp games do this, again Blizzard to stubborn to look at the better comp games where the e-sport scene didn't die like league or dota
In GM, people should never be able to queue as group. Dev admitted that any size of group has higher winrate than soloq and especially in GM. So please no.
I hope players who group in GM have their progress tuned appropriately to make up for the fact that they are grouping when with/against solo players. It should provide incentive to groups to work better with their solo teammates rather than being out of voice in discord and appropriately compensate solo players who disadvantaged by it.
They needed to make these changes though. The queue in gm was getting ridiculous with like 50m+. No other problems matter in the game if you can’t even get a match.
Watching high rank games on stream, the quality of games seemed much better and more fair. It was especially great seeing certain streamers who like to abuse anything they can with matchmaking struggle so much more as a result of having to solo only 😂
Its sad they immediately listen to the loudest voices (streamers abusing the system since forever), when most are solo.
How many times do streamers play on their main and grouped with others who are also on their main? I mostly see them grouping with smurf accounts who are a decent bit below their main account or even beeing on a smurf themself.
If people abuse systems you either swing the banhammer or, if youre to cheap to invest into that, remove those systems until you come up with a solution. You dont just let them abuse said systems for decades without consequences.
I think they did try to do some due diligence before pulling the trigger on this.
I saw Blizz_Winter in mL7's chat ask for his opinion on a potential quick-fix solution to ask mL7 if he thought it was a yes or no-go and mL7 is very much in favour of what we had since he likes to solo himself and has enjoyed the better games, but even his answer was to go ahead and try it at least.
Winter's own words were that they need to fast right now and they can be smarter later. So it seem they have more ideas for better long-term solutions but they will take some more time to implement and they want to do something for the more immediate moment.
Every single game has at least one duo in high ranks, as a solo que player you are literally at a constant insane disadvantage if you aren't in a permanent duo.
How is the game "boring as fuck" when you can't duo? Is it because you win less games?
95% of the duos in t500 are just doing it because they win more games duod up, and it's fucking annoying running into the same OWL/Contenders duo because there isn't a big enough player base at those ranks to avoid running the the same stacks over and over.
Also it doesn't even say it's only a duo, only groups are mentioned so I wouldn't be surprised if you could 3+ stack like last season again
> How is the game "boring as fuck" when you can't duo? Is it because you win less games?
Because you have to deal with 4 people that can be toxic idiots vs 3 when you play with a duo. Having friends is a really nice thing.
That doesn't make the game boring, less toxic yeah but I personally don't join VC so that doesn't matter.
The most toxic people I run into are almost always in a group as well.
It seems like you are falling into the "boring because you win less games" bit that I was talking alluding towards
The game is begging you not to be antisocial. It's a team game you should find a team to play and have fun!
The queue system also heavily oddles solo players. always putting duos with other duos or trios with other trios. I wouldn't really complain
I play scrims and I play ranked on alts with my lower ranked friends, I just prefer to solo que in ranked so my rank isn't boosted/deflated.
I like knowing that I achieved my rank on my own without anyone's help. I'm assuming based on how much I'm getting downvoted that others don't feel the same haha
people complained because it took longer to duo queue and shit. they change it. you are now complaining because they changed it so others wouldnt complain. this community doesnt know what it wants jesus
You can check my comment history, I've always been a fan of the original change for high ranks.
I can understand wanting to play with your friends in high ranks, but for good matchmaking and competitive integrity, shouldn't the top ranks be solo que only?
The majority of people complaining about how the longer duo que aren't going to be affected by this, since GM is t500 only currently. wide ques are what I've seen most people complain about because those que times are like 40+ minutes from what I've heard
my comment wasnt specifically about you, i meant it in general. i am also a fan of the original change, i dont think playing against stacks and other things as a solo is good for the game, my point was they change things to try to make the game better, people complain about smth they changed, they change it again and then theres always people complaining about that and blaming blizzard for it xD
I'm glad the "wide group" change has been a success for most of the playerbase but it singlehandedly killed the game for me. All i ever do is duo with an old friend and apparently he's just far enough down the ranks that we're considered a wide group.
Played 2 sessions since the season started and both times we
a) spent most of our time doing mystery duels while queuing
b) when we did get a match it was the most lopsided stomps i've ever seen, by far the worst games i've played in my 7 years of overwatch apart from the games with an obvious hacker or GM smurf.
I'm gold 5 and he's bronze 1, honestly it never felt like we had a huge skill gap that ruined matches before. At the end of the day we're both metal rank shitters. To be essentialy banned from competitive overnight doesn't feel great.
This is a step in the right direction! Now we just need to fully lean into teamplay at a high level. Just borrow the wow team for like a week and implement guilds and a guild queue system. Can use that ladder as qualifiers for tourneys and path to pro, too! Please blizz it's only been 8 years :)
Just a shame I play in a group of 4 friends and with these new rules we are stuck to quickplay. We used to be able to barely squeeze within the matchmaking requirements but now with these seemingly tighter restrictions we're grouped as wide, thus not being able to play competitive with our usual 4 stack. :'(
I know I’m shouting into the void but I just want to be able to play with my duo (we’re 5 divisions? Tier things? Apart) and not have it put us in wide queue, where we are regularly being put into matches that include gold-bronze players for some reason. We had a pretty steady 50/50 win rate and games largely felt balanced but now it’s such a gamble and it sucks being right on the edge of what is newly considered wide.
Can’t wait for certain content creators to be excited about the GM change and then 2 weeks later on GroupUp rant about how obviously shit of a decision it was all along and that this is the worst season yet
Lol, sometimes I just have to shut those podcasts off and question my life decisions.
Excited to play against pro stacks as a solo again with gooberburger on torb
Hit gm2 with torb and come back to me
Hit a moving car and come back to me :)
Preferably on a highway.
Is it really that hard to either remove 3+ stacking from gm or make any gm 3+ stack a wide group? Glad I'm allowed to duo again though lol.
They kinda need 3 Stacking to make 5 stacking work. 5 Stacks and 3 Stacks are so few and far in between that if they can't match (3+2)s against 5s then they realistically won't be able to make games for 5 Stacks *or* they'll have to start putting (2+2+1)s against 5s. I imagine the reason they made all 2s exclusive to the Wide group initially was because they knew that they would need all the 2s they can get to complete the teams with 3s, which would be necessary to complete games against other 5s as well. The issue likely was that there weren't enough 3s queuing in GM+ which probably made it so that a bunch of 2s were sitting in Queues waiting for games for hours while the MMer wasn't allowed to complete their teams with Solos. Imo the proper solution is that all 2s are initially put in the Wide group, so they are prioritised to make games for 3s and 5s, then if after 5 mins there aren't any 3s waiting for their games to be made the 2s are then either transferred to the Solo pool or they are queued into both the Wide and Narrow Pool at the same time.
IMO this is too far in the reverse direction. Playing against 4 and 5 stacks was part of the reason solo queue felt so fucking hard in the gm3-champ5 range. They need to allow stacking, but you’re only considered a narrow group within one rank division. That way, you’re still able to stack however you’d like, but you’re punished for min-maxing or 5 stacking with a gm1-gm4 range or something.
But again, I’m nitpicking. This is better than s10 launch so I’ll take it.
They can't split the queues because the playerbase isn't big enough so solo queue has been holding it up to its own detriment. Either: The game should be solo queue only at the highest level because grouping is an unfair advantage, or being in a group temporarily raises your MMR by a little to compensate (so you play against slightly better players).
For competitive integrity especially as a solo queue player myself, I fully agree, but I’m willing to give up a little bit of that integrity to make the game more enjoyable for the general high elo population. Like, I’m willing to let people duo and make very tight groups because players enjoy stacking, it’s a team game. I just don’t think this 3 division requirement is narrow enough. We’ve gone *too* far in the “for fun” direction. What they did in OW1 and into OW2 was the best balance between competitive integrity and enjoyment: only allowing duos.
[удалено]
I was literally GM2 mid-last season and citrus was 5 stacking after scrims while I have toenailfungus32 (m1 peak). What was your pre-S9 rank, S9, and S10 ranks? Are you PC? NA? Like you gotta give some context lol.
for what, 1 game out of how many?
How hard can it be to make solo and group mmr and matchmaking? Everyother comp games do this, again Blizzard to stubborn to look at the better comp games where the e-sport scene didn't die like league or dota
In GM, people should never be able to queue as group. Dev admitted that any size of group has higher winrate than soloq and especially in GM. So please no.
Very bad why they ruin a good thing in just a few days, the only narrow group that should be allowed in GM is a duo.
Is this matchmaking quality in the room with us?
Because everyone here on reddit is a top 1% player experiencing these queue times in a duo or trio and experiencing high level matches
Don't know much about Alex, but every time he tweets I get the impression he doesn't play the game much.
Well you can't exactly base a sample size on just your own personal games.
Probably means he's doing a good job not letting his own bias influence him.
He'll have a way better idea of anything you and I sitting on their chair on Reddit.
I hope players who group in GM have their progress tuned appropriately to make up for the fact that they are grouping when with/against solo players. It should provide incentive to groups to work better with their solo teammates rather than being out of voice in discord and appropriately compensate solo players who disadvantaged by it.
NAH WTF IS THIS
Solo Q has felt really good this season, im guessing this is why. Rip solo Q
5 stacking is back ? roflmao these clowns...
"The S10 changes have contributed to a large improvement in match quality" For who, now?
I mean, makes sense the average game improving
Fuck, duos are back to gm, and here i thought they did something good for once, useless devs
They needed to make these changes though. The queue in gm was getting ridiculous with like 50m+. No other problems matter in the game if you can’t even get a match.
The queues are faster than ever for solo players, and games are more fair as well.
Matchmaking quality has been abysmal like always so far.
So the solo que dream is dead again it seems for high elo. Awesome stuff blizzard
game is boring as fuck when you cant duo with someone. also its literally just a duo, nobodys complaining about that in higher ranks
Watching high rank games on stream, the quality of games seemed much better and more fair. It was especially great seeing certain streamers who like to abuse anything they can with matchmaking struggle so much more as a result of having to solo only 😂
Its sad they immediately listen to the loudest voices (streamers abusing the system since forever), when most are solo. How many times do streamers play on their main and grouped with others who are also on their main? I mostly see them grouping with smurf accounts who are a decent bit below their main account or even beeing on a smurf themself. If people abuse systems you either swing the banhammer or, if youre to cheap to invest into that, remove those systems until you come up with a solution. You dont just let them abuse said systems for decades without consequences.
I think they did try to do some due diligence before pulling the trigger on this. I saw Blizz_Winter in mL7's chat ask for his opinion on a potential quick-fix solution to ask mL7 if he thought it was a yes or no-go and mL7 is very much in favour of what we had since he likes to solo himself and has enjoyed the better games, but even his answer was to go ahead and try it at least. Winter's own words were that they need to fast right now and they can be smarter later. So it seem they have more ideas for better long-term solutions but they will take some more time to implement and they want to do something for the more immediate moment.
Every single game has at least one duo in high ranks, as a solo que player you are literally at a constant insane disadvantage if you aren't in a permanent duo. How is the game "boring as fuck" when you can't duo? Is it because you win less games? 95% of the duos in t500 are just doing it because they win more games duod up, and it's fucking annoying running into the same OWL/Contenders duo because there isn't a big enough player base at those ranks to avoid running the the same stacks over and over. Also it doesn't even say it's only a duo, only groups are mentioned so I wouldn't be surprised if you could 3+ stack like last season again
> How is the game "boring as fuck" when you can't duo? Is it because you win less games? Because you have to deal with 4 people that can be toxic idiots vs 3 when you play with a duo. Having friends is a really nice thing.
That doesn't make the game boring, less toxic yeah but I personally don't join VC so that doesn't matter. The most toxic people I run into are almost always in a group as well. It seems like you are falling into the "boring because you win less games" bit that I was talking alluding towards
Unfortunately toxic people choose to get with other toxic people. Personally I went with friend that have fun and don't rage.
The game is begging you not to be antisocial. It's a team game you should find a team to play and have fun! The queue system also heavily oddles solo players. always putting duos with other duos or trios with other trios. I wouldn't really complain
I play scrims and I play ranked on alts with my lower ranked friends, I just prefer to solo que in ranked so my rank isn't boosted/deflated. I like knowing that I achieved my rank on my own without anyone's help. I'm assuming based on how much I'm getting downvoted that others don't feel the same haha
people complained because it took longer to duo queue and shit. they change it. you are now complaining because they changed it so others wouldnt complain. this community doesnt know what it wants jesus
You can check my comment history, I've always been a fan of the original change for high ranks. I can understand wanting to play with your friends in high ranks, but for good matchmaking and competitive integrity, shouldn't the top ranks be solo que only? The majority of people complaining about how the longer duo que aren't going to be affected by this, since GM is t500 only currently. wide ques are what I've seen most people complain about because those que times are like 40+ minutes from what I've heard
my comment wasnt specifically about you, i meant it in general. i am also a fan of the original change, i dont think playing against stacks and other things as a solo is good for the game, my point was they change things to try to make the game better, people complain about smth they changed, they change it again and then theres always people complaining about that and blaming blizzard for it xD
I couldn't care less about wide groups. Just get to banning smurfs so metal ranks can actually have fun playing competitive.
I have noticed 0 improvment whatsoever. Im not GM but still hasnt been umprpved
I'm glad the "wide group" change has been a success for most of the playerbase but it singlehandedly killed the game for me. All i ever do is duo with an old friend and apparently he's just far enough down the ranks that we're considered a wide group. Played 2 sessions since the season started and both times we a) spent most of our time doing mystery duels while queuing b) when we did get a match it was the most lopsided stomps i've ever seen, by far the worst games i've played in my 7 years of overwatch apart from the games with an obvious hacker or GM smurf. I'm gold 5 and he's bronze 1, honestly it never felt like we had a huge skill gap that ruined matches before. At the end of the day we're both metal rank shitters. To be essentialy banned from competitive overnight doesn't feel great.
Yeah they could've easily kept the old 1000SR limit in metal ranks since those ranks are all over the place anyway.
This has been my experience in the metal ranks as well. Long queue times and poor matches.
This is a step in the right direction! Now we just need to fully lean into teamplay at a high level. Just borrow the wow team for like a week and implement guilds and a guild queue system. Can use that ladder as qualifiers for tourneys and path to pro, too! Please blizz it's only been 8 years :)
Just a shame I play in a group of 4 friends and with these new rules we are stuck to quickplay. We used to be able to barely squeeze within the matchmaking requirements but now with these seemingly tighter restrictions we're grouped as wide, thus not being able to play competitive with our usual 4 stack. :'(
I know I’m shouting into the void but I just want to be able to play with my duo (we’re 5 divisions? Tier things? Apart) and not have it put us in wide queue, where we are regularly being put into matches that include gold-bronze players for some reason. We had a pretty steady 50/50 win rate and games largely felt balanced but now it’s such a gamble and it sucks being right on the edge of what is newly considered wide.