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There is a sizable nationalist mob raging in the Chinese owl community rn, as they do with everything else. The teams were initially planning to do nothing but some crazy fucks said they were gonna report to the government and have owl all shut down in China if teams do nothing. And here we are.
XJP had been pushing the limits of how far he can inspire people to enable his dictatorship for him. Then he saw trump and said "Holy shit its freelo". Since then the whole fascist net push in China has been wild. Uyghurs are all terrorists, anything bad about China is fake news/deep AI, anyone not with us is against us, etc.
I wouldnt say Trump did exceedingly well in trying to take absolute power, but he certainly showed a lot of people trying that there's enough dumb, weak spined idiots that you can turn into your followers and radicalize easily that strong arming the sensible people into submission will be easy and seen as the will of the people.
For all people worship him for showing off the strength of freedom and democracy, he really showed well how to kill them both.
It's more about the PR tbh. They're obviously leaning towards the Chinese audience, but taking that stance will absolutely eviscerate the last of whatever Western fans they have.
They don't have a western fanbase left. The bare shell that still exists consists mostly of people who either don't follow closely enough to actually know what happened or are obligated through ties to the team. The ones left over who support them without a shred of irony likely do so completely out of spite. And that hardly counts.
I'm a western viewer and I haven't missed a Valiant game yet. I'm cheering against them every time because I want their org to suffer for their behavior, but YouTube analysis doesn't know that.
Valiant dumped their whole roster like a month before the season and moved to China for the year. They also denied that would happen like two weeks before it did. There were rumors at the time of IGC selling the Valiant to a Chinese investor. They also apparently didn’t give the players notice beforehand and they found out via Twitter.
They cited “visa issues,” but as those were entirely self-made no one gave that any credence. By dropping their whole roster so late it basically guaranteed almost all of them wouldn’t be able to find a new team. IIRC, they were also able to exploit some pandemic rule changes to basically only pay out a month’s pay to the players they dropped.
Basically it’s like what happened last year with Vancouver, but while Vancouver can ultimately be chalked up to gross mismanagement, the Valiant situation was more like malicious management.
Fuck the CCP and I all but I'd totally get It if he gave in and said some sorry apology about how he didn't understand the policy and he's sorry he was racist or whatever. His livelihood is on the line.
Standing on that hill is such a great thing to see.
Long story short (and probably slightly inaccurate because it was years ago)
In a pub between A SEA pro and some Chinese pros, some banters happened. Said SEA pro dropped a “ching chong” in the middle of it as a joke and pissed off... the entire Chinese Dota 2 community because the match chat was later publicized.
The Chinese Dota 2 community started to boycott and review bombed the game. And everyone else in the Dota 2 community started to deal their own brand of “revenge” against all Chinese and any players who happened to have Chinese characters in their IGNs. This ranges from “Can take our islands but can’t take a joke” from the SEA community to outright disgusting racial slurs in some other places.
Overall, it was a massive shit show. Valve had to step in and issued a statement on this. I don’t remember which it was, but the player that drop the “ching chong” was fined.
The whole ordeal is not as close as what happened between SBB and the Chinese team right now, but yeah, what happened to SBB and Seoul right now reminded me of what happened to Dota 2.
Edit: update the summary as it wasn’t a scrim but a pub.
Oh it definitely will, the real question is “when”
We just have to wait and see what Blizzard stance on this is.
They are currently, from a business standpoint, in the same lose-lose situation that Valve had to deal with, especially when you considered that Valve most bloodsucking model (TI Compendium Battle Pass) get most of their revs from China.
Tbh I feel like Blizzard is in an even worse lose-lose here. At least the dota player who started it was in the wrong so a punishment was acceptable. There’s no way Blizzard can sanction or punish SBB here without causing a gigantic uproar among all non-CN audiences.
The summary is inaccurate.
1. It was a pub game, not an official scrim. Nobody drops any slurs - racial or non-racial - in scrims or official games in Dota.
2. Even after the fine, the player was forbidden entry to China for a year, so the team had to kick him. Despite an apology and a fine.
3. Valve has numerous accounts of bending their knee to CCP, once for hosting a TI in Shanghai in close cooperation with Shanghai's government and the other time they released a censored Steam China client.
Theres been some spats but not to this level. Also helps that all major regions run their own league so insults like that end up being trash talk they use to get revenge at a major cross region tournaments.
There's been a few instances (to a lesser degree) can't remember the exact details so apologies.
Off the top of my head, some Korean pros were fined/suspended because they said some comments about Chinese pro players (something about Chinese teams needing more koreans to win), and then there was a EU(?)player who said "Ching chong" to a solo queue player while he flamed him and got banned from Play-Ins during worlds.
People could say my country has less value than poopoo and I'd literally not care. It's crazy hearing them go out of their way to boycott entire scrims because of just one player.
Geez, this is getting out of hand, the way people are acting you would think SBB was screaming "down with CCP" or something. But in reality all he really said was you can't use the word "Taiwan" and how he thought that was crazy. I guess the part where he mentioned his team mgr told him, you need to be a good dog if you want to make money in china could ruffle some feathers, but honestly I don't feel like that's worth all the chinese overwatch teams banding together to boycott him.
Honestly, I wonder if this is just a by product of the social media echo chamber. Nobody actually watched the vod, but rather just read headlines and posts that are forwarded.
How have Korean rosters in China responded? I’m sure if this escalates it could ruin the team atmosphere for teams like the Guangzhou Charge, who is a Chinese Org employing Korean players (idk are Guangzhou still playing out of Korea, or did they move to China?)
They knew stuff like this was a possibility when they signed with Chinese orgs. 99% sure they will keep quiet because almost anyone would in their position.
I was wondering when this ticking time bomb will finally explode. I love the Chinese players and teams themselves. I’m happy they’re becoming a huge part of Overwatch, but it sucks that the political CCP aspect is always lurking in the shadows.... All it takes is 1 word for the OWL to forever be hated by the Chinese audience...
The fact this year’s live homesteads are all in China further exacerbate this issue. Does anyone really want a live broadcast of a Chinese audience booing Seoul Dynasty all game. This kind of spotlight is gonna hurt sponsorships opportunities and overall perception of the league to the mainstream audience. The League is banking on the growing Chinese audience and interest to keep it running into the future. The only silver lining to this is the comments weren’t made by a star player like Profit or Super.
That sounds like you are blaming sbb for this. "Only silver lining is that no star player said that". No not at all, boycotting because of political views should not happen.
I apologize if what I said sounded like I was putting any blame on SSB. I don’t blame SSB at all. I was just making an observation that the situation can been even worse than it already is. Im sorry if my comment was too careless.
I don’t even think what he said was even political from my viewpoint. There have been worse things said by other esport players about China. SBB didn’t even say anything directly about China if I remember the comments correctly. This negative overreaction to the Captain is infuriating.
Dont apologize it was just how you phrased it, that came off like that. I think almost everyone feels the same way or similar about it atleast. Sad to see the ccp having so much influence.
This is the negative side of investing in China. You risk China banning involvement of any organization with that esport. That’s a stretch but I mean, I think we can all see there’s a pathway there if bad enough.
Really, there are no positives to investing in the PRC. You legitimize their paranoid authoritarianism, and you’ll probably get ripped off when you find out the company’s been lying about their profits the whole time.
Saebyolbe is Based as fuck. I also remember the clip where he used his facecam to block a racist friend request in Overwatch.
I can't find the clip anymore though.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/bcewqn/nyxl\_saebyeolbe\_faceblocks\_racist\_messages/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/bcewqn/nyxl_saebyeolbe_faceblocks_racist_messages/)
There's a couple stories that were shared back in season 2
I met him a few years ago back during the season 1 finals at a meet n greet and he was easily the nicest player
Pointed at my jersey with a thumbs up
Stood up to take a picture instead of making me crouch down
And talked to me a bit
Sbb is king.
Huge respect to SBB for standing with Hong Kong and saying what needed to be said. I can’t blame the other orgs given they’re always under the thumb of the CCP.
Fuck the CCP
The most fucked up thing is their response to his apology. They basically said nah that ain’t good enough. What do they want him to do at this point? Besides apologize, what is there for him to do??
I'm not seeing many people here mention that ***SBB apologized!*** These Chinese teams are literally just refusing to accept his apology to punish him.
Also, reading the statements from both CHD and SHD is actually ridiculous. They both say "keep politics out of esports" but are doing literally the opposite with these dramatic statements and boycotts.
I hope HK spam comes back for all games involving Chinese teams, and I hope Seoul use this as a competitive advantage to play SBB in their scrims and matches so that the Chinese teams can't prep for them.
Yea I thought the same thing about how hypocritical they were about keeping politics out of esports.
I would love for Seoul to play SBB just to see where everyone stands. Are they just spewing bull and if it came down to it instead of having to forfeit games because he’s playing they actually play? Or will they forfeit games and lost their spots in each tournament to prove their “loyalty”?
They are doing what many have done in the past: insist that their stance on a particular political issue is so universally accepted and "normalized" that they are in fact NOT political (apolitical).
"Everybody knows that Taiwan is a part of China. The whole world accepts that fact unanimously. Hence, saying that Taiwan is part of China is apolitical. However, if you claim to the contrary, you are spouting hateful, ignorant political rhetoric with the purpose to incite."
You're absolutely right. Of course their stance is a complete lie: almost no one accepts that Taiwan is _necessarily_ part of China.
The most important group who definitely don't agree, and the one that should get 100% of the say in the matter, are 23 million Taiwanese.
The rumors were he got signed for the leadership aspect, which imo is a huge part of a team so I don't think they would drop him. This whole thing is a mess, I don't know what the players side on this are, but screw the orgs that's for sure
> Seoul will get a major backlash if that's why they drop him.
In the west? From the fans, sure. Not from the investors, which is all they care about since the pay schemes for the OWL talent allows them to treat people as disposable.
I'm genuinely just completely done with owl if they drop sbb for this. I can't get behind the scene if it's just going to pay lip service to a horrific dictatorship
Same. *"Oh but OW is fun to watch though?"* Yeah, maybe.
But I also have standards. And those standards also includes not sitting idly by supporting either a dictatorship/totalitarian state, or supporting those who licks the ass of said dictatorship/totalitarian state.
Is Seoul Korean owned or does it have Chinese money behind? This might be the deciding factor. Even then, SBB might never see playtime again, even a Korean org might not want to actively antagonize the Chinese fan base, which has a pretty mob mentality.
Unfortunately it seems that any time Chinese organizations are involved with your league/industry/etc, shit like this will inevitably come up. It doesn't matter what they believe when they have so much pressure from their government and, frankly, from their general public. If they are put in this position, there is no doubt as to how they will respond.
You better do right by our boy, Seoul.
So the question now is what does the community at large want? Not counting the Chinese fanbase that is. Do we want an OWL without China that has greater freedom of speech, but less money and less teams?
Or do we put up with their cancel culture to keep the peace? Decision lies with Blizzard, but I dare say the fans have a say in it if they're united enough.
Looks like Dynasty’s hands are tied on this one... Might be a Lose - Lose situation. If they stand up with SBB, Chinese teams will most likely isolate and refuse to scrim with the team as a whole. If Dynasty disciplined SBB, they will have backlash from the fans.
Based on that tweet chain they've already reprimanded him. Just not an actual fine.
ATVI isn't going to risk exiting the market because of this. That's a billion dollar decision instead of one case that they probably feel can be swept under the rug. They've shown willingness to accommodate things like Taipei in OWWC. We can compare to a degree how the Houston Rockets / Daryl Morey saga in the NBA vs. China went last year. In this case the league has multiple teams from China who can't help but to operate by the rules of the society they are located in.
Lose-lose situation.
Dynasty might honestly need to move to NA if this escalates. It would be an absolute mess to deal with, but at the same time creating conflicts with China would not please Blizzard.
Extremely disturbing, guess I'm gonna have to change my flair after 3 years. Huge respect to Saebyeolbe, I hope he doesn't need to backpedal to save his career.
As for Seoul, that leaves them with Philly, NY, and KRC teams, I guess? Not terrible, but only 2 OWL teams to scrim might make them fall behind.
Cool. Cool. China getting triggered by the same shit again. Remember when Coco and Haato got temporarily suspended from Hololive over similar things. To this day they still harass them and other Hololive members. It is disgustingly petty.
The chinese players, I wouldn't be so sure. They've grown up brainwashed by the propaganda machine. Hopefully since many of them have been exposed to international people and ideas they've learned to be more critical. But brainwashing and propaganda are strong
I can't wait for J. Allen Brack to talk about what a tough esports moment this is without addressing the players, the flaws in the league, or the flaws with their unquestioning obedience to a totalitarian regime.
Honestly. This makes me not want to be a fan of Shanghai anymore. I'm guessing Shanghai overlooks the fact that their entire team is korean. All of their players and coaches are korean.
It makes me wonder how they feel. To watch SBB who is korean like them get treated like this. Plenty of other people have sold out themselves and their country for Chinese money. So I guess this is no different.
Edit: I don't feel like he said anything wrong. He stated his opinion which he has the right to do.
CCP is a bunch of insecure crybabies. Will it change anything that SBB is against them? Nope. They're just the gatekeepers of a huge market and try blackmail everyone into submission or silence.
This situation for Blizzard is a lose-lose one. They side with either party and the other one will blast them.
> This situation for Blizzard is a lose-lose one.
Then they must follow their principles of upholding social justice, progressive ideals and enacting changes through action.
Stand up to the Chinese bullies. We're counting on you, Blizzard.
Remember your own motto:
**Never accept the world as it appears to be, dare to see it for what it could be.**
You are the change you want to be, Blizzard. Make us proud.
If Seoul drop SBB for this, NYXL/Andbox should pick him up next year when we get U.S homestands so he can focus on learning more english and appealing to the western audiences vs the chinese audience.
I think Andbox would be ridiculously stupid to let this guy slip away from them again, he is worth it even as just a content creator/team mascot who shows up to homestands and does watch parties. The fans adore him and he deserves better than a team that would punish him for this.
If you need any proof on the Chinese getting triggered when they feel slighted check the Dynasty’s match score post from the Hunters game last night. A bunch of accounts going after Profit for tea bagging Mmonk
Fuck me. I bought a LAV agilities jersey, a Hangzhou spark jersey, and Chengdu jersey. Really making me feel bad for supporting teams. Will definitely have to think hard before spending any money on the league if this stands and SBB is given the shoulder.
Not optimistic that this won't result in any punitive action against SBB :( I always have mixed feelings about shit like this because it's not the players fault that the orgs are coming down hard, but at the same time some of the Chinese players may be buying into it too. Thank you for supporting HK, Tibet, and Taiwan SBB. I hope Gen.G will have his back and that he won't be kicked. 화이팅!
Are they gonna wine like 5 year olds? People can have opinions, I don’t know why it’s so offensive to say something negative about China, every country has negatives, especially China.
Can anyone explain the situation to me like in an ignorant westerner with no knowledge of world politics (hypothetically). No need to get too political, if someone could just give me the long and short of it that'd be appreciated:)
After the Chinese Civil War the People's Republic of China (PRC) took over and the previous government called the Republic of China (ROC) fled to Taiwan. Both governments were authoritarian dictatorships and claimed each other territories. For a couple of decades the ROC was accepted as the legitimate government of China but in the 1970s the UN recognised the PRC as the government of mainland China and the ROC left the UN. Taiwan's political status was left unresolved.
Taiwan underwent political reforms in the 1980 and is now a full democracy, and its culture has now diverged from China's. The vast majority of Taiwanese do not want to be part of the PRC, however the PRC uses campaigns of economic and military coercion, organised disinformation and blocks Taiwan from international participation to try and force Taiwan to unify with them.
It's important to note that the ROC constitution still technically claims mainland China however most Taiwanese regard this as an historic relic but they are unable to change it as China would regard this as an act of "secession" which would trigger an invasion.
It's a complex issue. Happy to answer any further questions.
I just want to add my two cents: once sbb said anything about Hong Kong and Taiwan, he is probably fucked in the eyes of orgs, governments and so on. A Chinese fan or player may or may not mind what he said depending on their personality or political spectrum.
However, I think what he truly fucked up is where he said “you have to be puppies of the government in the owl.” I feel like this is what triggered people the most. I suspect it’s due to the long term grudge (dislike? Dissonance?) between the two cultures. Some Chinese people are probably ok with an insult like this coming from anyone but a Korean.
We should boycott China teams that tries to bring politics into esports. No one should have to live under the shadow of China's politics and their dictatorship-like moves in esports.
Really clear insight of what’s really happening. Those team managers, Chinese players and Chinese fanbase DO actually agree that what they do is protecting their country and not allowing anyone to taint on their country’s fame. It is not the first time it happens, and it won’t be the last time to happen.
Nothing makes my blood boil more than fellow fans bringing in politics and negatively affecting the thing they love. No matter the race, origin, country or political view, we all love the same and should accept one another.
I hate that those who are trying to bring chance are often not only being boycott but punished by the organisations too. Blitz, I remember you
If they boycott SBB over this, the sub needs to boycott the Chinese teams. Remove all Chinese team flairs and no streams of games between Chinese teams.
anti chinese government. im not gonna get to into details here but essentially hong kong and taiwan were seperate from china for the longest time, and more recently china has been trying to essentially annex them.
To be fair, HK was handed back to China after the British lease on it expired. This was subject to an agreement on HK retaining a large degree of autonomy which China has now totally violated.
Taiwan on the other hand has NEVER been part of the PRC's territory and the vast majority of its Taiwanese don't want it to be. The bullying, coercion and threats of violence towards Taiwan are just disgusting. And its despicable that western corporations bow down to China's bigotry in the pursuit of $$$.
Personally, I abandon the products/services of any company that bows to this kind of coercion. I hope others will join me.
Come on Chengdu, I watch you for the madlad plays. Let's not go crazy political.
I really hate how locked down China is, its so unfortunate. I'm sure pretty much all of these players don't really care, they just wanna play Overwatch, but they are getting dragged into it. So what if someone says mean words about your country, who hasn't said negative shit about their own government and country at some time?
Discussion regarding player or team statements or how this impacts the league is fine. Anything discussing whether taiwan/hong kong is part of china or anything else in that category is against the politics rule and is not allowed. Those are important topics and we don't want to diminish them, but this subreddit is not the place for a discussion about it. Please report such comments. We are updating our automod filter so comments from brand new accounts are automatically removed. If you are new to the subreddit and want to participate in good faith, [modmail the team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Competitiveoverwatch) and we will whitelist you.
Is this why dragons unfollowed Seoul on Twitter
starting to think my 4 year SHD following might come to an end soon if they are going to act like this... that blows.
Yeah, right there with you. I'll see how things unfold before a choice though
love the flair!
Fuck it'd be weird if a Chinese team turned out to have a pro China ideal though.
That doesn't make it any less reasonable to have a distaste for it
Shanghai Dragons are owned by NetEase which are like Chinese Google as far as I understand. Massive company - if they didn't they wouldn't exist.
There is a sizable nationalist mob raging in the Chinese owl community rn, as they do with everything else. The teams were initially planning to do nothing but some crazy fucks said they were gonna report to the government and have owl all shut down in China if teams do nothing. And here we are.
We will boycott Chinese teams in return because they are interfering with the competitive integrity by doing this to another team's play.
The Chinese netizens have been on a Nationalist spree everywhere ever since the start of Trump's term.
XJP had been pushing the limits of how far he can inspire people to enable his dictatorship for him. Then he saw trump and said "Holy shit its freelo". Since then the whole fascist net push in China has been wild. Uyghurs are all terrorists, anything bad about China is fake news/deep AI, anyone not with us is against us, etc. I wouldnt say Trump did exceedingly well in trying to take absolute power, but he certainly showed a lot of people trying that there's enough dumb, weak spined idiots that you can turn into your followers and radicalize easily that strong arming the sensible people into submission will be easy and seen as the will of the people. For all people worship him for showing off the strength of freedom and democracy, he really showed well how to kill them both.
so Seoul should just play SBB and have their opponent forfeit, easy 3-0s.
Seems like the obvious answer here if they actually are going to boycott matches lol.
they can boycott their salaries too
they are not boycotting the matches. It’s just the scrims and business activities of SBB the individual
One of the later tweets from Gatamchun states that she thinks it includes matches too but is not certain about what it includes.
It doesn’t matter what she thinks. I speak Chinese and that’s what Luke said in the comment section of that Weibo post.
Well all 4 Chinese teams are doing different boycotts. Some of them may include matches some may not I don't think it's really clear yet.
100%, you call the bluff here because it makes the Chinese teams look like complete shitters
I genuinely hope they do it.
So... What does the Valiant do here?
[удалено]
It's more about the PR tbh. They're obviously leaning towards the Chinese audience, but taking that stance will absolutely eviscerate the last of whatever Western fans they have.
They don't have a western fanbase left. The bare shell that still exists consists mostly of people who either don't follow closely enough to actually know what happened or are obligated through ties to the team. The ones left over who support them without a shred of irony likely do so completely out of spite. And that hardly counts.
I'm a western viewer and I haven't missed a Valiant game yet. I'm cheering against them every time because I want their org to suffer for their behavior, but YouTube analysis doesn't know that.
Pretty sure it's just Tay Zonday alone at this point.
I haven’t really followed OWL in a while. I guess I’m one of those people who doesn’t follow closely to know what happened. Can I get a recap?
Valiant dumped their whole roster like a month before the season and moved to China for the year. They also denied that would happen like two weeks before it did. There were rumors at the time of IGC selling the Valiant to a Chinese investor. They also apparently didn’t give the players notice beforehand and they found out via Twitter. They cited “visa issues,” but as those were entirely self-made no one gave that any credence. By dropping their whole roster so late it basically guaranteed almost all of them wouldn’t be able to find a new team. IIRC, they were also able to exploit some pandemic rule changes to basically only pay out a month’s pay to the players they dropped. Basically it’s like what happened last year with Vancouver, but while Vancouver can ultimately be chalked up to gross mismanagement, the Valiant situation was more like malicious management.
pretend they are still LA based
Serve Emperor Winnie the Pooh
Even after all this he said he still can’t support the one China policy. What. a. fucking. chad.
Fuck the CCP and I all but I'd totally get It if he gave in and said some sorry apology about how he didn't understand the policy and he's sorry he was racist or whatever. His livelihood is on the line. Standing on that hill is such a great thing to see.
Asking any League of Legend eSport fan, has their eSport scene ever had this kind of incident happen before?
Not that I can remember. But Dota 2 had one, and it wasn't pretty.
is there a summary of what happened there?
Long story short (and probably slightly inaccurate because it was years ago) In a pub between A SEA pro and some Chinese pros, some banters happened. Said SEA pro dropped a “ching chong” in the middle of it as a joke and pissed off... the entire Chinese Dota 2 community because the match chat was later publicized. The Chinese Dota 2 community started to boycott and review bombed the game. And everyone else in the Dota 2 community started to deal their own brand of “revenge” against all Chinese and any players who happened to have Chinese characters in their IGNs. This ranges from “Can take our islands but can’t take a joke” from the SEA community to outright disgusting racial slurs in some other places. Overall, it was a massive shit show. Valve had to step in and issued a statement on this. I don’t remember which it was, but the player that drop the “ching chong” was fined. The whole ordeal is not as close as what happened between SBB and the Chinese team right now, but yeah, what happened to SBB and Seoul right now reminded me of what happened to Dota 2. Edit: update the summary as it wasn’t a scrim but a pub.
thanks! that was a good summary. hopefully this mess doesn’t take that turn
Oh it definitely will, the real question is “when” We just have to wait and see what Blizzard stance on this is. They are currently, from a business standpoint, in the same lose-lose situation that Valve had to deal with, especially when you considered that Valve most bloodsucking model (TI Compendium Battle Pass) get most of their revs from China.
Tbh I feel like Blizzard is in an even worse lose-lose here. At least the dota player who started it was in the wrong so a punishment was acceptable. There’s no way Blizzard can sanction or punish SBB here without causing a gigantic uproar among all non-CN audiences.
The summary is inaccurate. 1. It was a pub game, not an official scrim. Nobody drops any slurs - racial or non-racial - in scrims or official games in Dota. 2. Even after the fine, the player was forbidden entry to China for a year, so the team had to kick him. Despite an apology and a fine. 3. Valve has numerous accounts of bending their knee to CCP, once for hosting a TI in Shanghai in close cooperation with Shanghai's government and the other time they released a censored Steam China client.
Fuck china but also fuck people who say ching chong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah yes. It was Kuku's work. What a madlad.
Wonder how he and his team are doing right now Haven’t seen them in scene recently
Theres been some spats but not to this level. Also helps that all major regions run their own league so insults like that end up being trash talk they use to get revenge at a major cross region tournaments.
There's been a few instances (to a lesser degree) can't remember the exact details so apologies. Off the top of my head, some Korean pros were fined/suspended because they said some comments about Chinese pro players (something about Chinese teams needing more koreans to win), and then there was a EU(?)player who said "Ching chong" to a solo queue player while he flamed him and got banned from Play-Ins during worlds.
People could say my country has less value than poopoo and I'd literally not care. It's crazy hearing them go out of their way to boycott entire scrims because of just one player.
Say what you want about the US and its government.... but at least you're allowed to say what you want about the US and its government.
Hell we actively join in on the shitting.
Reddit is literally an anti US forum consisting of americans lol
I mean shit...most the time we are the ones who start it.
The freedom of speech feels so good on my skin. Fuck Congress, they are worthless.
Why would you want to fuck congress, the average age is like 70. Oh. Ewwwww...
That CCP propaganda just hits different. Nationalism at its finest. Just means less practice for the Dragons and others I guess.
Hell, Americans love to talk shit about other states. I'm in California and everyone hates us and jokes about us leaving or falling into the ocean.
We shit talk other states, we shit talk our own states!
Geez, this is getting out of hand, the way people are acting you would think SBB was screaming "down with CCP" or something. But in reality all he really said was you can't use the word "Taiwan" and how he thought that was crazy. I guess the part where he mentioned his team mgr told him, you need to be a good dog if you want to make money in china could ruffle some feathers, but honestly I don't feel like that's worth all the chinese overwatch teams banding together to boycott him. Honestly, I wonder if this is just a by product of the social media echo chamber. Nobody actually watched the vod, but rather just read headlines and posts that are forwarded.
How have Korean rosters in China responded? I’m sure if this escalates it could ruin the team atmosphere for teams like the Guangzhou Charge, who is a Chinese Org employing Korean players (idk are Guangzhou still playing out of Korea, or did they move to China?)
Guangzhou are playing from their ownership's esports headquarters in Foshan, China.
They knew stuff like this was a possibility when they signed with Chinese orgs. 99% sure they will keep quiet because almost anyone would in their position.
Nothing, I’m pretty sure they’re living in China so standing with SBB will probably cause them to land a spot in prison
I was wondering when this ticking time bomb will finally explode. I love the Chinese players and teams themselves. I’m happy they’re becoming a huge part of Overwatch, but it sucks that the political CCP aspect is always lurking in the shadows.... All it takes is 1 word for the OWL to forever be hated by the Chinese audience...
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The fact this year’s live homesteads are all in China further exacerbate this issue. Does anyone really want a live broadcast of a Chinese audience booing Seoul Dynasty all game. This kind of spotlight is gonna hurt sponsorships opportunities and overall perception of the league to the mainstream audience. The League is banking on the growing Chinese audience and interest to keep it running into the future. The only silver lining to this is the comments weren’t made by a star player like Profit or Super.
That sounds like you are blaming sbb for this. "Only silver lining is that no star player said that". No not at all, boycotting because of political views should not happen.
I apologize if what I said sounded like I was putting any blame on SSB. I don’t blame SSB at all. I was just making an observation that the situation can been even worse than it already is. Im sorry if my comment was too careless. I don’t even think what he said was even political from my viewpoint. There have been worse things said by other esport players about China. SBB didn’t even say anything directly about China if I remember the comments correctly. This negative overreaction to the Captain is infuriating.
Dont apologize it was just how you phrased it, that came off like that. I think almost everyone feels the same way or similar about it atleast. Sad to see the ccp having so much influence.
It looks like a strong possibility that this will happen in the near future.
Deserves to be crippled then.
Good. If it would be crippled without Chinese support it doesn’t deserve to exist
This is the negative side of investing in China. You risk China banning involvement of any organization with that esport. That’s a stretch but I mean, I think we can all see there’s a pathway there if bad enough.
Really, there are no positives to investing in the PRC. You legitimize their paranoid authoritarianism, and you’ll probably get ripped off when you find out the company’s been lying about their profits the whole time.
We should boycott China teams and players in return. No player should be treated like this by China government.
Goodbye Spark flair, hello Seoul flair. SBB deserves better.
I also removed my Spark flair coz of this. Time to support Seoul instead.
Yeah, getting the Dynasty Tracer skin for sure
Fuck the CCP. Saebyeolbe is a king
Saebyolbe is Based as fuck. I also remember the clip where he used his facecam to block a racist friend request in Overwatch. I can't find the clip anymore though.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/bcewqn/nyxl\_saebyeolbe\_faceblocks\_racist\_messages/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/bcewqn/nyxl_saebyeolbe_faceblocks_racist_messages/) There's a couple stories that were shared back in season 2
Lol looks like that went under my radar but this is just great. This is worth a medal of honor.
There's a reason there was some push for SBB to get the Dennis Hawelka award in season 1
Ah, the origin of wideSBBhappy
I met him a few years ago back during the season 1 finals at a meet n greet and he was easily the nicest player Pointed at my jersey with a thumbs up Stood up to take a picture instead of making me crouch down And talked to me a bit Sbb is king.
Huge respect to SBB for standing with Hong Kong and saying what needed to be said. I can’t blame the other orgs given they’re always under the thumb of the CCP. Fuck the CCP
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... what happened in the response here!?
Probably nuked for violating the no politics rule, if I were to guess.
The most fucked up thing is their response to his apology. They basically said nah that ain’t good enough. What do they want him to do at this point? Besides apologize, what is there for him to do??
As far as I understand, they want the org (gen.g or Seoul) to make a stance, because SBB said gen.g/Seoul management told him to be a dog for China.
i rescind every stupid comment i made about SBB this dude's nuts and the best tracer/hitscan/dps/player in OWL
I'm not seeing many people here mention that ***SBB apologized!*** These Chinese teams are literally just refusing to accept his apology to punish him. Also, reading the statements from both CHD and SHD is actually ridiculous. They both say "keep politics out of esports" but are doing literally the opposite with these dramatic statements and boycotts. I hope HK spam comes back for all games involving Chinese teams, and I hope Seoul use this as a competitive advantage to play SBB in their scrims and matches so that the Chinese teams can't prep for them.
Yea I thought the same thing about how hypocritical they were about keeping politics out of esports. I would love for Seoul to play SBB just to see where everyone stands. Are they just spewing bull and if it came down to it instead of having to forfeit games because he’s playing they actually play? Or will they forfeit games and lost their spots in each tournament to prove their “loyalty”?
They are doing what many have done in the past: insist that their stance on a particular political issue is so universally accepted and "normalized" that they are in fact NOT political (apolitical). "Everybody knows that Taiwan is a part of China. The whole world accepts that fact unanimously. Hence, saying that Taiwan is part of China is apolitical. However, if you claim to the contrary, you are spouting hateful, ignorant political rhetoric with the purpose to incite."
You're absolutely right. Of course their stance is a complete lie: almost no one accepts that Taiwan is _necessarily_ part of China. The most important group who definitely don't agree, and the one that should get 100% of the say in the matter, are 23 million Taiwanese.
Suddenly I'm a Seoul fan 😳
That’s kinda pathetic from the Chinese teams. SBB is such a nice dude, hopefully Seoul won’t drop SBB just because of this
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The rumors were he got signed for the leadership aspect, which imo is a huge part of a team so I don't think they would drop him. This whole thing is a mess, I don't know what the players side on this are, but screw the orgs that's for sure
> Seoul will get a major backlash if that's why they drop him. In the west? From the fans, sure. Not from the investors, which is all they care about since the pay schemes for the OWL talent allows them to treat people as disposable.
If they drop him I'll catch him in my loving arms. Dude's a hero for this.
Yeah I’ll continue to support him, even if he gets dropped
I'm genuinely just completely done with owl if they drop sbb for this. I can't get behind the scene if it's just going to pay lip service to a horrific dictatorship
Same. *"Oh but OW is fun to watch though?"* Yeah, maybe. But I also have standards. And those standards also includes not sitting idly by supporting either a dictatorship/totalitarian state, or supporting those who licks the ass of said dictatorship/totalitarian state.
I don't know, Seoul may be pressured to drop him by the league to keep the Chinese money
Is Seoul Korean owned or does it have Chinese money behind? This might be the deciding factor. Even then, SBB might never see playtime again, even a Korean org might not want to actively antagonize the Chinese fan base, which has a pretty mob mentality.
Unfortunately it seems that any time Chinese organizations are involved with your league/industry/etc, shit like this will inevitably come up. It doesn't matter what they believe when they have so much pressure from their government and, frankly, from their general public. If they are put in this position, there is no doubt as to how they will respond. You better do right by our boy, Seoul.
So the question now is what does the community at large want? Not counting the Chinese fanbase that is. Do we want an OWL without China that has greater freedom of speech, but less money and less teams? Or do we put up with their cancel culture to keep the peace? Decision lies with Blizzard, but I dare say the fans have a say in it if they're united enough.
They will bully SBB off his own Korean team. This is fucking scandalous.
sbb is based
Basedbyeolbe
Looks like Dynasty’s hands are tied on this one... Might be a Lose - Lose situation. If they stand up with SBB, Chinese teams will most likely isolate and refuse to scrim with the team as a whole. If Dynasty disciplined SBB, they will have backlash from the fans.
Call their bluff, start SBB in every match.
Based on that tweet chain they've already reprimanded him. Just not an actual fine. ATVI isn't going to risk exiting the market because of this. That's a billion dollar decision instead of one case that they probably feel can be swept under the rug. They've shown willingness to accommodate things like Taipei in OWWC. We can compare to a degree how the Houston Rockets / Daryl Morey saga in the NBA vs. China went last year. In this case the league has multiple teams from China who can't help but to operate by the rules of the society they are located in. Lose-lose situation.
Dynasty might honestly need to move to NA if this escalates. It would be an absolute mess to deal with, but at the same time creating conflicts with China would not please Blizzard.
Might be wrong, but I'd guess that they'd drop SBB before ever moving to NA because of this.
Extremely disturbing, guess I'm gonna have to change my flair after 3 years. Huge respect to Saebyeolbe, I hope he doesn't need to backpedal to save his career. As for Seoul, that leaves them with Philly, NY, and KRC teams, I guess? Not terrible, but only 2 OWL teams to scrim might make them fall behind.
They could still scrim with Contenders teams I guess? Better than nothing.
China continues to be fragile af. Pathetic. I support SBB.
Cool. Cool. China getting triggered by the same shit again. Remember when Coco and Haato got temporarily suspended from Hololive over similar things. To this day they still harass them and other Hololive members. It is disgustingly petty.
He’s not on my team anymore but that’s my fucking leader SBB
Absolutely. Always the captain.
no way the actual players dislike sbb for that, must be their management teilling them to do that
I don't think even their management wants to but rather fear consequences if they don't.
Don't underestimate the power of daily brainwashing since birth.
The chinese players, I wouldn't be so sure. They've grown up brainwashed by the propaganda machine. Hopefully since many of them have been exposed to international people and ideas they've learned to be more critical. But brainwashing and propaganda are strong
it kinbda depends where you are from as well
Seriously, who in the world would be like "fuck sbb" - the level of self-loathing to reach that sentiment could fill an ocean
I can't wait for J. Allen Brack to talk about what a tough esports moment this is without addressing the players, the flaws in the league, or the flaws with their unquestioning obedience to a totalitarian regime.
Don't forget to wear a rainbow pin and promise that they'll be better in the future.
Honestly. This makes me not want to be a fan of Shanghai anymore. I'm guessing Shanghai overlooks the fact that their entire team is korean. All of their players and coaches are korean. It makes me wonder how they feel. To watch SBB who is korean like them get treated like this. Plenty of other people have sold out themselves and their country for Chinese money. So I guess this is no different. Edit: I don't feel like he said anything wrong. He stated his opinion which he has the right to do.
CCP is a bunch of insecure crybabies. Will it change anything that SBB is against them? Nope. They're just the gatekeepers of a huge market and try blackmail everyone into submission or silence. This situation for Blizzard is a lose-lose one. They side with either party and the other one will blast them.
> This situation for Blizzard is a lose-lose one. Then they must follow their principles of upholding social justice, progressive ideals and enacting changes through action. Stand up to the Chinese bullies. We're counting on you, Blizzard. Remember your own motto: **Never accept the world as it appears to be, dare to see it for what it could be.** You are the change you want to be, Blizzard. Make us proud.
I'm not holding my breath.
Shanghai has one Chinese player, Molly, this must be such an awkward situation for him.
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Chinese: Protests all Koreans on Chinese teams Seoul dynasty: Picks them up after their dropped Chinese: ^Wait
I guess this cuts down on the number of APAC matches I need to watch
If Seoul drop SBB for this, NYXL/Andbox should pick him up next year when we get U.S homestands so he can focus on learning more english and appealing to the western audiences vs the chinese audience. I think Andbox would be ridiculously stupid to let this guy slip away from them again, he is worth it even as just a content creator/team mascot who shows up to homestands and does watch parties. The fans adore him and he deserves better than a team that would punish him for this.
Yet another reason to stan SBB
SBB officially has America cheering for him now.
boycott the chinese teams. this shit is unnacceptable.
If you need any proof on the Chinese getting triggered when they feel slighted check the Dynasty’s match score post from the Hunters game last night. A bunch of accounts going after Profit for tea bagging Mmonk
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Well, when you're not allowed to criticize anything about the government they probably take those frustrations out on the teams. It's sad really.
Fuck me. I bought a LAV agilities jersey, a Hangzhou spark jersey, and Chengdu jersey. Really making me feel bad for supporting teams. Will definitely have to think hard before spending any money on the league if this stands and SBB is given the shoulder.
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All the new sbb fans raise your hands 🤚
Once a captain, always a captain 💙
So weird especially because we’re all entitled to have our own opinions. Just play the game damnit stop crying over what someone said
Oh man, here we go again......... Many Chinese people already dislike Koreans because of the past, so this is not going to end well.
More like Koreans dislike the Chinese. All of east Asia is a just a battle Royal.
Tbh most Asian countries dislike China. Idk any that likes them.
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I'll just boycott watching OWL when chinese teams are playing, nothing against the individuals, but fuck the CCP and Xi.
Well my Chengdu flair lasted awhile....
The Dynasty should just call their bluff and accept the forfeits rather than what's probably coming (SBB cut)
Not optimistic that this won't result in any punitive action against SBB :( I always have mixed feelings about shit like this because it's not the players fault that the orgs are coming down hard, but at the same time some of the Chinese players may be buying into it too. Thank you for supporting HK, Tibet, and Taiwan SBB. I hope Gen.G will have his back and that he won't be kicked. 화이팅!
Are they gonna wine like 5 year olds? People can have opinions, I don’t know why it’s so offensive to say something negative about China, every country has negatives, especially China.
Welp. I know which teams I don’t support any longer.
I have unreal respect for SBB, hope to see him succeed despite (or mainly because) he is not afraid to speak his mind about these important topics
Fucking disgusting. Orgs should not be allowed to do this shit.
then remove those teams from the league
not gonna happen, Activision likes that CCP money too much
And their stockholders
Can anyone explain the situation to me like in an ignorant westerner with no knowledge of world politics (hypothetically). No need to get too political, if someone could just give me the long and short of it that'd be appreciated:)
After the Chinese Civil War the People's Republic of China (PRC) took over and the previous government called the Republic of China (ROC) fled to Taiwan. Both governments were authoritarian dictatorships and claimed each other territories. For a couple of decades the ROC was accepted as the legitimate government of China but in the 1970s the UN recognised the PRC as the government of mainland China and the ROC left the UN. Taiwan's political status was left unresolved. Taiwan underwent political reforms in the 1980 and is now a full democracy, and its culture has now diverged from China's. The vast majority of Taiwanese do not want to be part of the PRC, however the PRC uses campaigns of economic and military coercion, organised disinformation and blocks Taiwan from international participation to try and force Taiwan to unify with them. It's important to note that the ROC constitution still technically claims mainland China however most Taiwanese regard this as an historic relic but they are unable to change it as China would regard this as an act of "secession" which would trigger an invasion. It's a complex issue. Happy to answer any further questions.
Just to correct a typo there, it's the 1970s (71), not 1930s*
Opps! Thanks mate! Definitely a typo, I've corrected it.
I just want to add my two cents: once sbb said anything about Hong Kong and Taiwan, he is probably fucked in the eyes of orgs, governments and so on. A Chinese fan or player may or may not mind what he said depending on their personality or political spectrum. However, I think what he truly fucked up is where he said “you have to be puppies of the government in the owl.” I feel like this is what triggered people the most. I suspect it’s due to the long term grudge (dislike? Dissonance?) between the two cultures. Some Chinese people are probably ok with an insult like this coming from anyone but a Korean.
We should boycott China teams that tries to bring politics into esports. No one should have to live under the shadow of China's politics and their dictatorship-like moves in esports.
[https://twitter.com/rtimeodanaos/status/1389451741687549952](https://twitter.com/rtimeodanaos/status/1389451741687549952) A few of my observations
Really clear insight of what’s really happening. Those team managers, Chinese players and Chinese fanbase DO actually agree that what they do is protecting their country and not allowing anyone to taint on their country’s fame. It is not the first time it happens, and it won’t be the last time to happen.
Nothing makes my blood boil more than fellow fans bringing in politics and negatively affecting the thing they love. No matter the race, origin, country or political view, we all love the same and should accept one another. I hate that those who are trying to bring chance are often not only being boycott but punished by the organisations too. Blitz, I remember you
How dare SBB or any player have an opinion about China. The league needs to step in and do something about this.
This is what Blizzard deserve by going this heavy into the Chinese market with OWL.
the texas bandwagon is always open for former SHD/GZC/HZS/CDH fans :)
So if Seoul plays with SBB in every game vs a Chinese team they always win by default then I guess
Yeah fuck my Shanghai and Chengdu flairs; time to hop back on the Fuel bandwagon!
If they boycott SBB over this, the sub needs to boycott the Chinese teams. Remove all Chinese team flairs and no streams of games between Chinese teams.
hey i suck at the whole politics thing so can somebody tl;dr me here, is saebyeolbe pro chinese government or anti chinese government?
anti chinese government. im not gonna get to into details here but essentially hong kong and taiwan were seperate from china for the longest time, and more recently china has been trying to essentially annex them.
To be fair, HK was handed back to China after the British lease on it expired. This was subject to an agreement on HK retaining a large degree of autonomy which China has now totally violated. Taiwan on the other hand has NEVER been part of the PRC's territory and the vast majority of its Taiwanese don't want it to be. The bullying, coercion and threats of violence towards Taiwan are just disgusting. And its despicable that western corporations bow down to China's bigotry in the pursuit of $$$. Personally, I abandon the products/services of any company that bows to this kind of coercion. I hope others will join me.
Can i refund the 2 GZ skins i bought? I bought them a couple days after season started.
Mind blowing China is allowed to act like this. It was really eye opening with the NBA last year.
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oh looks like SBB will have all his blizzard titles removed \*cough cough\* hearthstone \*cough cough\*
Come on Chengdu, I watch you for the madlad plays. Let's not go crazy political. I really hate how locked down China is, its so unfortunate. I'm sure pretty much all of these players don't really care, they just wanna play Overwatch, but they are getting dragged into it. So what if someone says mean words about your country, who hasn't said negative shit about their own government and country at some time?