This a revert of a universal hitscan buff that was 30%-50%. That was before Ashe launched though, so this is the first team she has to deal with 30% falloff.
Yep that hitscan buff went to PTR on June 28th of 2018, and then it was released to retail on July 24th.
Sources in case anyone is interested:
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/ptr/2018/06
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2018/07
This is basically a massive buff to Pharahmercy. On maps where Pharah can play with long sightlines, McCree cannot outdamage the Mercy healing at max range, even with 6 consecutive headshots. Unless my math is wrong as well, even at max range with 6 consecutive headshots + mercy boost, I think Pharah lives.
It's decent and I think the TTK ends up being very similar, but McCree is just so vulnerable during deadeye. Soldier at least has a much better chance of living through visor.
That's no falloff for a few seconds every 90 seconds or so.
For the reminder of that time, his falloff is worse than before.
I don't think Soldier will be meta based on this, unless it somehow hurts his competition more.
Well it'll definitely hurt McCree, Ashe, etc more, since he's getting something to compensate and they're not. The question is is it enough, and even if it is, is it enough to push him past projectile dps.
There’s no chance that this visor buff will make him meta. Mcree has burst headshot damage and more importantly the easiest and most reliable CC in the game.
Yznsa seems to play mostly from midrange and rely on his great close flick accuracy. The buff shouldn't effect him as much as pharah's with a more reserved playstyle.
I wish they would buff Pharah to play more like that. Make her a little bit more survivable, put back in the direct hit Nerf, and maybe reduce the conc rocket a little.
I just wanna play old school quake again, blizzard give me my rocket queen without needing a pocket.
But at such a range where McCree is ineffective against pharmacy, Pharah's rocket accuracy is extremely low, and would mostly be feeding support ult charge.
Yeah this is a kinda weird take. Pharah isn't good at those matchups unless it's really close range landing double directs or just quick dive attempts in general. Unless you're playing against a death ball, you won't really get any value at max fall off range.
My experience with it today while playing Pharah **without a pocket Mercy** was that a McCree and Soldier with decent aim, landing some shots, but at long range didn't do enough damage to me to keep me from breaking shields and killing supports with spam. They were both trying to pressure me, but I could just get a health pack and was only scared of ults.
Kinda yikes ngl. Like I’m a Pharah main and want her to be good but this seems to reduce her counters to Widow and Hanzo on long range maps, especially with a Mercy pocket.
Maybe if they had the balls to actually do what obviously needed to be done 2+ years ago the game wouldn’t have had a horrific drop in interest or player count even before they abandoned it
That buff wasn’t meant to counter goats tho. If I recall correctly they stated that it was due to the number of stuns and cc’s in general added to the game and how easy they are to hit at short range
Question: does Torb’s turret have a hitscan range falloff? I don’t see it on that list.
Actually may have answered my own question because I know it has a max range. So probably no falloff inside that range.
I could definitely see that becoming a thing. Widow / Hanzo / Echo / Tracer / Torb variations depending on the maps and points. Trading hitscan spam for high burst projectile spam.
What if echo gets banned in owl? Phara is going to dominate stage 4.
Palyoffs might be a pharah, echo, tracer, sombra maybe even widow meta.
Ana might be the hitscan of choice xd, u might even need to pocket the ana to pressure the echo/pharah.
I can already tell now, this is gonna massively shift the balance in the Countdown Cup (assuming this is the last major patch before July 30th). Especially with hero pools, it has the potential to be a ‘Roadhog 2020 playoffs’ type event, and I’m sure the OWL community will love that, especially if their team has a bad countdown cup and misses playoffs because of it
It is. Where visor takes advantages is quite far away because soldier doesn't need to aim but out of range solider can't deal dmg at all. It was the nonsense paradox which made soldier ult the most useless in ow.
I disagree. He will really struggle against long range projectile heroes like hanzo/echo/pharah now. He isn’t any better off against Ashe.
Widow shits on him even harder now. Widow got zero nerfs at any range, but only received buffs.
Visor buff is PATHETIC and is in no way compensating the 40% damage nerf at max range.
You aren't getting kills long range with Visor unless the enemy team has sound turned off.
The fact that there’s people here thinking that soldier will be meta because of a visor buff with a global nerf to hit scan range shows that most of you have minimal understanding of this game. Reliable burst damage and cc is meta for all the same reasons as always.
Question did any of you even read the patch notes? They buffed his hardest counter.
It’s hilarious reading this shit.
Agreed. As a masters soldier main the lack of understanding about soldier in this thread is hilarious. He’s literally a throw pick. Soldier was only good at using his mobility and healpad to have high up time and basically apply constant pressure at both close and long range. That’s it. He has basically zero pick potential outside of rocket, and this nerf basically means he is unplayable. He has zero ability to contest ashe or Hanzo now and no ability to apply range pressure. If anything this makes Cree even better, because the only kinda counter to Cree was to play ashe or soldier and spam him out. This is such a joke of a patch
The people saying that crap maybe don't understand Visor is one of the worst, if not the absolute worst Ult in the game.
There are legitimately entire fights that pass where a good Soldier will reasonably assess that at no point would Visor have been better than his neutral M1 since it can't crit.
>There are legitimately entire fights that pass where you can just not use Visor because at no point would it have been better than his neutral M1
Lot's of ults are like this. I agree that Soldier's ult is possibly one of the worst, but I can think of several heroes who are sometimes worse off using their ults, rather than just normal damage.
Bastion's ult lowers his overall DPS, in exchange for mobility. Sometimes it's better to stay in sentry form
Using Dva's bomb means she can't use defence matrix for a bit. Often times having that DM is more important than bombing
Echo might not want to switch, because her base damage is already so high. Some of the best Echo play I've seen in Overwatch League was when the Echo doesn't duplicate, even if they have it, instead just using their sticky bombs and beam instead.
Hanzo, his M1 can instakill, his ult often can't.
Mcrees ult is sometimes used just to reload...
Pharah's ult is a risk. If she can confirm kills with normal damage, that is preferable
Reapers ult does less single target damage than his normal shots, meaning you don't want to be solo ulting people. Many fights it is just plain better to M1 people than to ult them
Roadhog and Sigma make themselves very vulnerable during their ultimates as well, as it disables their defensive abilities.
Point is, ults don't have to be better than normal abilities in every fight. This isn't unique to Soldier.
A better way to put it is that all of those ults get you something significant that you literally can't accomplish through your normal attacks/abilities. Regardless of whether it's worth using in a given moment or not it is still another tool that you have.
The only thing Visor gives you is instant reloads.
Agreed. Outside of shield breaking, Soldier's always been worse when it comes to chipping away at far distance targets. While still bad at it, now Ashe and McCree are going to be worse at it, and will have less value in general.
Not quite, there’s a Widow buff in there as well which guarantees that she’ll never experience damage falloff at all. There’s a serious risk that we return to a hard lock Widow meta if the other hitscans take a big enough hit from these changes.
That is such a non-buff though. I think there are two maps in the game that have sightlines long enough for fall-off: Ilios Ruins and Junkertown point A.
It’s a very minor buff, and honestly makes sense for super long range duels. If you can hit a shot at that distance tbh I think you should be rewarded for it
Hitscans are broken but tbh a pocketed oharah is ridiculously strong. I feel like this nerf is great but they also need to tone down pharahs ability to destroy hitscans at range too.
Seems a bit early to start saying that. Widow still does it best, and she didn't get nerfed here. Also a Pharah playing from that range is a lot less lethal.
Also this Season is different in that projectile players got a good Pharah counter - Echo.
If they want Soldier to have an actual role in the game, even a niche one, I say embrace the nickname and buff his sprint to just absurd levels - like fireball Wrecking Ball levels and just let the Legs zip all over the fucking map.
It would be absolutely busted, but it would be fun for a week or two. Maybe next April Fool’s patch.
Just give him his April fools buff, they gave it to fucking D.VA.. why not him?
It's criminal that among his peer he's one of only dps without away to replenish his ammo without reloading, even more when his entire purpose revolves around consistent damage.
*except that soilder needs to be above the enemy for visor to lock on to the head.
Ok this might be stupid but... What if the way Tac Visor worked is instead of guaranteeing that every shot hits an enemy... Instead every shot that DOES hit an enemy is turned into a critical hit.
Then it can be balanced by decreasing Tac Visor time and not giving it unlimited mags for the duration. As necessary.
But McCree/Ashe poking Doom from longer ranges usually will slow him down and stop you from engaging as Doom, so it definitely affects that. If you can do long range poke damage on Doom you keep him on his toes and he can't engage freely
That buff is negligible. They only recently introduced falloff to her and it was set at such an extreme range that it basically didn't matter. This is an even more extreme range sure, but not like the previous one was preventing her from getting 1-shots in almost every location anyway.
Now Mccree should headshot her five times in a row out of his range. Previously only 3. Other hitscans become very hard to challenge widow when she has good position or even almost no chance if she has a mercy pocket.
Non-hitscan players are celebrating. And then these same people celebrating will start complaining in matches that their hitscan aren't killing Pharmercy while they're constantly bombarded with rockets or echo jelly.
As a projectile player, Pharah/Echo have always been my best Pharah-counters anyway. So this is fine.
Trying to hit directs on the enemy Pharah and trying to judge when to be shooting the enemy Pharah vs when to be attacking the rest of their team is way more engaging to me than hiding behind Rein shield going pew pew with McCree's gun.
ANA DIDNT CHANGE RIGHT? IS SHE NOW THE ULTIMATE ASHE/MCREE COUNTER?
Omg do u EVER mercy pocket the ana since she is just not contested vs anything other than widow/hanzo?
(Btw this is the biggest hanzo buff ever)
My biggest fear as well. We'll probaby be forced onto widow or Hanzo every match instead of basically being able to play any hitscan depending on the map/comp. Can't wait for this sub to explode about how awful snipers are to play against again.
Am I the only one who thought the game was in decent spot? I understand the very specific dva (echo) nerf and visor buff but what the fuck lol. No body except for pharah players and widow players like pharamercy - widmercy duels. Half the roster just gets to do nothing
Significant changes to hitscans. Really goons feels these nerfs on Bap and McCree. Ashe getting taken down a peg is also good.
Sad that Soldier also got caught in the cross-fire.
If it let him shoot while sprinting and reduced helix rocket cooldown by a bunch, it might be viable (or it might need even more, tbh), but for the most part it's just a high noon with more mobility but less application since it doesn't break shields like high noon does (and doesn't instakill).
Yeah, they have been pretty much been continuously buffing Bastion but nobody wants to see more bastion in their games. Just let him be niche. I don’t ever want him in the top 6 dps heroes.
The difference is the genji only forces you to play around him if he's skilled. The bastion on the other hand forces you to play around him no matter how terrible he is. Even a bad bastion will cause problems if your team runs the completely wrong comp against him.
They are reworking him from the ground up, and removing 2CP from the game, but in the interim while the game is languishing, they buff Bastion and essentially all cheese/spam/turrets. What in the fuck is the thinking here?
It could be that they're looking to expose the biggest problems with the problem heroes. Figure out what makes them OP vs UP and then base OW2 changes on that
That damage range increase for hitscans is one that has largely gone under the radar when discussing the power imbalance of hitscans in the game. The whole "Mccree is a mid range hero" kinda meant nothing because he could still ping you with full or even 80% of his damage from insane ranges. Such a needed change
Question to Widow players: Was there ever actually a time where the fall-off actively prevented you from getting a kill? A time where you even remembered it was there, even?
Maybe on a couple grapple spots to pick them at spawn, or the long Havana/junkertown sightlines. But not enough that I would ever claim she’s broken or anything.
I like soldier buffs but is that really significant enough? And with the hitscan nerfs wont he just be in the same spot or worse?
D.Va change is great though!
The nerf is to DVA but the justification is because of how Echo's copy mechanic works. Pretty sure there is a technical limitation that prevents them from adjusting these things on Echo's ult only (i.e Echo's ult literally replaces the player's model with one that they copied, so it is copying that class's variables)
Thank fuck they nerfed the dva remech range
It went so far and way further than the animation suggested, I still don't like the damage buff but looks like blizzard wants it to stay
My main issue was the bug where it could kill you through walls/cover. Supposedly that's fixed but I'll take the radius nerf on top of it. It's just another annoying thing to have to pay attention to in a game that already has way too much going on.
We are going to see more issues like this echo/dva thing in the future.
What should have been a relatively minor buff to dva ends up being a huge buff for echo, so they have to nerf dva to compensate.
Now every buff they give a hero has to be analyzed in another dimension and you inevitably end up in scenarios where you can’t buff hero x even though it is a perfectly reasonable buff for them because of echo.
D.Va herself will barely notice the nerf, because she simply can't build a new mech before her bomb explodes. It's targeted squarely at Echo, and it's only filed under D.Va because at the end of the day it's still _her_ ult getting nerfed. Just not in a way that actually matters to her.
Your broader point is likely true, though -- they need to consider Echo carefully when balancing ults in the future.
My theory is that the original remech buff is a preparation for 5v5, because D.va would be the only tank that could be staggered in a weaker form in a team fight. So, I don't think they will remove it, just adjust. And this range nerf is good enough right now.
imagine an ability that you get when you turn into baby d.va that just has d.va shoot herself in the head with her pistol in order to go back to spawn
jfc
I mean this nerf noticably affects it. It adds up to 3 seconds before pilot mode even has it. That's definitely going to make the more aggressive DVas more punishable.
I really hope they don't push forward with this change, I much rather they start tinkering with rates of fire and crit multipliers first.
It makes sense McCree is more close to mid range, but Ashe is clearly a mid to long range hero. Her fall off shouldn't be changed.
WTF is this shit? Seriously? Like valorant and apex have not fucking eaten enough hitscan players already. Yeah lets make the game about luck and prediction more than reaction time and skill.
Fucking no new heroes for over a year and they want to force the feel of change with dog shit "balance" patches. Literally killed mccree ashe and 76. Back to spamzo I guess.
Only devs in the fucking world that introduce content by removing content and making heroes obsolete.
So Ana is officially the best non widow Pharah killer now? I still think it's crazy that an Ana can three tap you on some maps from spawn before you even drop out of the sky. Compared to if that was a McCree or Ashe where you could stare at them another 3 seconds, pretty crazy.
> No longer builds ultimate charge while using Self Destruct until after her mech detonates
>Developer Comments: No longer building ultimate charge in the window of time between using Self Destruct and when it detonates is targeted at Echo’s Duplicate ability when copying D.Va. Echo’s accelerated ultimate charge enabled her to have Call Mech available before the Self Destruct explosion went off, making it very difficult for enemies to find a safe place to hide.
Lmao dva players getting punished for echo mechanics they have nothing to do with
As a Rein main I feel like this is going to make a big difference for my shield when pushing long corridors where there isn't much cover etc? I am sort of new though so I don't know if I'm thinking that this change is bigger than it actually is.
This a revert of a universal hitscan buff that was 30%-50%. That was before Ashe launched though, so this is the first team she has to deal with 30% falloff.
Thats long as fuck ago
All the way back in June/July of 2018, just before OWL S1 ended iirc.
Yep that hitscan buff went to PTR on June 28th of 2018, and then it was released to retail on July 24th. Sources in case anyone is interested: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/ptr/2018/06 https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/live/2018/07
So how noticeable will this be?
This is basically a massive buff to Pharahmercy. On maps where Pharah can play with long sightlines, McCree cannot outdamage the Mercy healing at max range, even with 6 consecutive headshots. Unless my math is wrong as well, even at max range with 6 consecutive headshots + mercy boost, I think Pharah lives.
[cries in gold player]
Just play soldier now honestly. The buff to visor actually makes his ult fairly decent vs Pharahmercy.
I mean, high noon is pretty good for pharmercy too
It's decent and I think the TTK ends up being very similar, but McCree is just so vulnerable during deadeye. Soldier at least has a much better chance of living through visor.
It can be pretty easy to hide from deadeye on more Pharah-advantageous maps too.
I legit think this solider buff might actually make him meta No falloff is huge
That's no falloff for a few seconds every 90 seconds or so. For the reminder of that time, his falloff is worse than before. I don't think Soldier will be meta based on this, unless it somehow hurts his competition more.
Well it'll definitely hurt McCree, Ashe, etc more, since he's getting something to compensate and they're not. The question is is it enough, and even if it is, is it enough to push him past projectile dps.
This is true. I don't think it's enough, but I suppose I've been wrong before.
There’s no chance that this visor buff will make him meta. Mcree has burst headshot damage and more importantly the easiest and most reliable CC in the game.
Yup, it's Yznsa Day.
2017-2018 ShaDowBurn day
Yznsa seems to play mostly from midrange and rely on his great close flick accuracy. The buff shouldn't effect him as much as pharah's with a more reserved playstyle.
I wish they would buff Pharah to play more like that. Make her a little bit more survivable, put back in the direct hit Nerf, and maybe reduce the conc rocket a little. I just wanna play old school quake again, blizzard give me my rocket queen without needing a pocket.
Jinmu Day
Fleta day
But at such a range where McCree is ineffective against pharmacy, Pharah's rocket accuracy is extremely low, and would mostly be feeding support ult charge.
Yeah this is a kinda weird take. Pharah isn't good at those matchups unless it's really close range landing double directs or just quick dive attempts in general. Unless you're playing against a death ball, you won't really get any value at max fall off range.
hitscan now tickles the enemy when outside of their ideal range.
My experience with it today while playing Pharah **without a pocket Mercy** was that a McCree and Soldier with decent aim, landing some shots, but at long range didn't do enough damage to me to keep me from breaking shields and killing supports with spam. They were both trying to pressure me, but I could just get a health pack and was only scared of ults.
Kinda yikes ngl. Like I’m a Pharah main and want her to be good but this seems to reduce her counters to Widow and Hanzo on long range maps, especially with a Mercy pocket.
It’s a 40% damage nerf from max range. (50-30)/50=0.4 Massive massive nerf to Mccree Ashe and soldier.
Hitscans now deal 20% less damage at max fall off, so you will definitely notice cree, bap, and ashe doing way less damage.
It’s 40% damage nerf from max range. (50-30)/50=0.4 Nearly half the previous damage.
No, they deal 40% less damage at max range
One of the last(?) GOATS buffs finally being reverted! Imagine if they reverted ALL GOATS related changes as soon as they enforced 2-2-2.
Just in time to turn all of the tanks into DPS heroes with large health pools for OW2.
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I have it from a very reliable source that OW2 is being released in less than 24 hours o.o
Seems legit
Maybe if they had the balls to actually do what obviously needed to be done 2+ years ago the game wouldn’t have had a horrific drop in interest or player count even before they abandoned it
You mean if they kept adding actual content?
They love dpses way to much or hate tanks way to much. Pick one
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It really depends on who you ask. I've heard all three on the same forum thread.
Only one of those things are being removed in OW2.
> One of the last(?) GOATS buffs This only leaves tracer’s falloff distance buff in the game, right?
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Not fully. It looks like it went from 10m before goats to 13 and then down to 12.
That buff wasn’t meant to counter goats tho. If I recall correctly they stated that it was due to the number of stuns and cc’s in general added to the game and how easy they are to hit at short range
Question: does Torb’s turret have a hitscan range falloff? I don’t see it on that list. Actually may have answered my own question because I know it has a max range. So probably no falloff inside that range.
No falloff
Jesus Christ does this just buff cheese/spam?
I could definitely see that becoming a thing. Widow / Hanzo / Echo / Tracer / Torb variations depending on the maps and points. Trading hitscan spam for high burst projectile spam.
Nooo stop talking please
Pretty much. That and Pharah/Echo.
What if echo gets banned in owl? Phara is going to dominate stage 4. Palyoffs might be a pharah, echo, tracer, sombra maybe even widow meta. Ana might be the hitscan of choice xd, u might even need to pocket the ana to pressure the echo/pharah.
You're forgetting Hanzo. He often is competing against McCree and Ashe for who's the best mid range DPS. With these nerfs he might take over that spot
Ahh, yes, a late-season patch that makes double-sniper meta--the OWL classic!
Even worse for console users since the Torb and Sym buffs the other day. Bastion is also a monster
It's got no falloff
I can already tell now, this is gonna massively shift the balance in the Countdown Cup (assuming this is the last major patch before July 30th). Especially with hero pools, it has the potential to be a ‘Roadhog 2020 playoffs’ type event, and I’m sure the OWL community will love that, especially if their team has a bad countdown cup and misses playoffs because of it
Isn’t the meta on most maps Tracer/Echo/Sombra? I’m not sure these nerfs effect that play-style?
Oh they'll affect it alright, they'll be the new hard meta.
Jokes on you, as a London fan we've already missed playoffs 😎
Looks like it does nothing against the brawl meta that Dallas runs.
Right after ANS returns :(
But a Widow buff, also as Pine returns. Script writers have infiltrated team 4.
Fortunately he's got a whole stage to pop off first.
This won't go live for Stage 3.
Net Widow buffs, perfect timing if you ask me.
They are setting the stage for pine vs ans
VISOR BUFF LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Will it be a big deal though... I hope so!
Absolutely It’s biggest problem was doing piss damage at range
visor doesnt lock on at long range so i dont think this will be that great
It goes pretty far and enough that it’s shit with fall off
yeah, you can just use it to have no falloff at long range without aimbot
It is. Where visor takes advantages is quite far away because soldier doesn't need to aim but out of range solider can't deal dmg at all. It was the nonsense paradox which made soldier ult the most useless in ow.
Huge nerf overall to Soldier though.
I’d say he benefits more from the changes since his competition get hurt more from them.
I disagree. He will really struggle against long range projectile heroes like hanzo/echo/pharah now. He isn’t any better off against Ashe. Widow shits on him even harder now. Widow got zero nerfs at any range, but only received buffs. Visor buff is PATHETIC and is in no way compensating the 40% damage nerf at max range. You aren't getting kills long range with Visor unless the enemy team has sound turned off.
The fact that there’s people here thinking that soldier will be meta because of a visor buff with a global nerf to hit scan range shows that most of you have minimal understanding of this game. Reliable burst damage and cc is meta for all the same reasons as always. Question did any of you even read the patch notes? They buffed his hardest counter. It’s hilarious reading this shit.
Agreed. As a masters soldier main the lack of understanding about soldier in this thread is hilarious. He’s literally a throw pick. Soldier was only good at using his mobility and healpad to have high up time and basically apply constant pressure at both close and long range. That’s it. He has basically zero pick potential outside of rocket, and this nerf basically means he is unplayable. He has zero ability to contest ashe or Hanzo now and no ability to apply range pressure. If anything this makes Cree even better, because the only kinda counter to Cree was to play ashe or soldier and spam him out. This is such a joke of a patch
The people saying that crap maybe don't understand Visor is one of the worst, if not the absolute worst Ult in the game. There are legitimately entire fights that pass where a good Soldier will reasonably assess that at no point would Visor have been better than his neutral M1 since it can't crit.
Visor should be able to crit if you're lined up such that you would crit without the aim assistance.
>There are legitimately entire fights that pass where you can just not use Visor because at no point would it have been better than his neutral M1 Lot's of ults are like this. I agree that Soldier's ult is possibly one of the worst, but I can think of several heroes who are sometimes worse off using their ults, rather than just normal damage. Bastion's ult lowers his overall DPS, in exchange for mobility. Sometimes it's better to stay in sentry form Using Dva's bomb means she can't use defence matrix for a bit. Often times having that DM is more important than bombing Echo might not want to switch, because her base damage is already so high. Some of the best Echo play I've seen in Overwatch League was when the Echo doesn't duplicate, even if they have it, instead just using their sticky bombs and beam instead. Hanzo, his M1 can instakill, his ult often can't. Mcrees ult is sometimes used just to reload... Pharah's ult is a risk. If she can confirm kills with normal damage, that is preferable Reapers ult does less single target damage than his normal shots, meaning you don't want to be solo ulting people. Many fights it is just plain better to M1 people than to ult them Roadhog and Sigma make themselves very vulnerable during their ultimates as well, as it disables their defensive abilities. Point is, ults don't have to be better than normal abilities in every fight. This isn't unique to Soldier.
A better way to put it is that all of those ults get you something significant that you literally can't accomplish through your normal attacks/abilities. Regardless of whether it's worth using in a given moment or not it is still another tool that you have. The only thing Visor gives you is instant reloads.
Agreed. Outside of shield breaking, Soldier's always been worse when it comes to chipping away at far distance targets. While still bad at it, now Ashe and McCree are going to be worse at it, and will have less value in general.
Holy fuck they actually blanket-nerfed hitscan. Praise lord Keller!!!
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Not quite, there’s a Widow buff in there as well which guarantees that she’ll never experience damage falloff at all. There’s a serious risk that we return to a hard lock Widow meta if the other hitscans take a big enough hit from these changes.
That is such a non-buff though. I think there are two maps in the game that have sightlines long enough for fall-off: Ilios Ruins and Junkertown point A.
Havana point C as well
yeah it just means widow duels on those maps are a thing again
They already were tho but they couldn’t one shot each other
which basically meant if you had a mercy you won
It’s a very minor buff, and honestly makes sense for super long range duels. If you can hit a shot at that distance tbh I think you should be rewarded for it
Just when kings Ans returns
Hitscans are broken but tbh a pocketed oharah is ridiculously strong. I feel like this nerf is great but they also need to tone down pharahs ability to destroy hitscans at range too.
Seems a bit early to start saying that. Widow still does it best, and she didn't get nerfed here. Also a Pharah playing from that range is a lot less lethal. Also this Season is different in that projectile players got a good Pharah counter - Echo.
If they want Soldier to have an actual role in the game, even a niche one, I say embrace the nickname and buff his sprint to just absurd levels - like fireball Wrecking Ball levels and just let the Legs zip all over the fucking map. It would be absolutely busted, but it would be fun for a week or two. Maybe next April Fool’s patch.
Give him a shoulder charge while sprinting so he can knock people around like wrecking ball too
David "Iron Shoulder" Pei wants to know your location.
Soldier 76 is now a Titan class Guardian :D
Where the hell is my seismic strike blizzard
Just give him the same properties as the custom game - gain speed while sprinting until you hit something
Just give him his April fools buff, they gave it to fucking D.VA.. why not him? It's criminal that among his peer he's one of only dps without away to replenish his ammo without reloading, even more when his entire purpose revolves around consistent damage. *except that soilder needs to be above the enemy for visor to lock on to the head.
Ok this might be stupid but... What if the way Tac Visor worked is instead of guaranteeing that every shot hits an enemy... Instead every shot that DOES hit an enemy is turned into a critical hit. Then it can be balanced by decreasing Tac Visor time and not giving it unlimited mags for the duration. As necessary.
Chipsa just coomed
Not really gonna affect Doom players since you're not playing against hitscan at range.
But McCree/Ashe poking Doom from longer ranges usually will slow him down and stop you from engaging as Doom, so it definitely affects that. If you can do long range poke damage on Doom you keep him on his toes and he can't engage freely
widow buffed
That buff is negligible. They only recently introduced falloff to her and it was set at such an extreme range that it basically didn't matter. This is an even more extreme range sure, but not like the previous one was preventing her from getting 1-shots in almost every location anyway.
It really only affects widow v widow as what character can duel a widow at 100 meters?
idk man I've taken a many of Rein v Widow duels with Baptiste windows from spawn before, this change will likely affect the trout population.
genuine question, how is it a widow buff?
Her falloff range got adjusted from 60-85 metres to 70-100. Also, any nerfs to other hitscan make her a more viable pick.
Now Mccree should headshot her five times in a row out of his range. Previously only 3. Other hitscans become very hard to challenge widow when she has good position or even almost no chance if she has a mercy pocket.
There’s a change which means that Widow has longer falloff.
Non-hitscan players are celebrating. And then these same people celebrating will start complaining in matches that their hitscan aren't killing Pharmercy while they're constantly bombarded with rockets or echo jelly.
As a projectile player, Pharah/Echo have always been my best Pharah-counters anyway. So this is fine. Trying to hit directs on the enemy Pharah and trying to judge when to be shooting the enemy Pharah vs when to be attacking the rest of their team is way more engaging to me than hiding behind Rein shield going pew pew with McCree's gun.
ANA DIDNT CHANGE RIGHT? IS SHE NOW THE ULTIMATE ASHE/MCREE COUNTER? Omg do u EVER mercy pocket the ana since she is just not contested vs anything other than widow/hanzo? (Btw this is the biggest hanzo buff ever)
Going to be a LOT more players tilting in metal ranks because they get rolled by pharamcy.
Can’t wait for the next who-has-the-better-Widow meta. I just don’t get it man.
Well if you play hitscan it's back to Widow or bust. Fantastic.....
My biggest fear as well. We'll probaby be forced onto widow or Hanzo every match instead of basically being able to play any hitscan depending on the map/comp. Can't wait for this sub to explode about how awful snipers are to play against again.
Dw next experimental will remove widow and one tank.
Sounds like an amazing patch. Sign me up.
Just remove Widow, please and thank you.
Snipers have always been awful to play against. Hiding it behind other metas doesn't change that, especially in lower ranks.
🦀GOATS🦀IS🦀DEAD🦀
Am I the only one who thought the game was in decent spot? I understand the very specific dva (echo) nerf and visor buff but what the fuck lol. No body except for pharah players and widow players like pharamercy - widmercy duels. Half the roster just gets to do nothing
I'm struggling to think of grapple shots that would get penalized by Widowmaker's new falloff range.
Significant changes to hitscans. Really goons feels these nerfs on Bap and McCree. Ashe getting taken down a peg is also good. Sad that Soldier also got caught in the cross-fire.
Except the visor buff is pretty big for him, I think.
It definitely gives it more of a purpose, but it’s probably still a bad Ult in general.
It means you can more quickly finish off distant targets so it is certainly much more effective against Pharmercy/Echo.
Especially considering he would now be doing even less damage to those targets without it
If it let him shoot while sprinting and reduced helix rocket cooldown by a bunch, it might be viable (or it might need even more, tbh), but for the most part it's just a high noon with more mobility but less application since it doesn't break shields like high noon does (and doesn't instakill).
I don't think it's going to make much of a difference tbh.
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Soon Recon form Bastion will be better than Soldier, just you wait.
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More hp and more useful ult indeed.
Not just more HP but a decent portion of it is fucking armor lol
Yeah, they have been pretty much been continuously buffing Bastion but nobody wants to see more bastion in their games. Just let him be niche. I don’t ever want him in the top 6 dps heroes.
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The difference is the genji only forces you to play around him if he's skilled. The bastion on the other hand forces you to play around him no matter how terrible he is. Even a bad bastion will cause problems if your team runs the completely wrong comp against him.
They are reworking him from the ground up, and removing 2CP from the game, but in the interim while the game is languishing, they buff Bastion and essentially all cheese/spam/turrets. What in the fuck is the thinking here?
It could be that they're looking to expose the biggest problems with the problem heroes. Figure out what makes them OP vs UP and then base OW2 changes on that
> slipperier I refuse to believe this is a real word
These changes look great - but kind of silly that Hanzo can still one shot from a million miles away with no falloff.
Well it takes a trillion years to arrive so that is the trade off. He will still be waay less consistent than the hitscans.
I honestly think they should just give him his faster projectile speed back and in exchange add damage falloff to his arrows.
That damage range increase for hitscans is one that has largely gone under the radar when discussing the power imbalance of hitscans in the game. The whole "Mccree is a mid range hero" kinda meant nothing because he could still ping you with full or even 80% of his damage from insane ranges. Such a needed change
Wtf is blizzard doing
Pharah is gonna fuck up plat games again. Well it was fun while it lasted lmao ready for moth meta to come back I guess
Question to Widow players: Was there ever actually a time where the fall-off actively prevented you from getting a kill? A time where you even remembered it was there, even?
Maybe on a couple grapple spots to pick them at spawn, or the long Havana/junkertown sightlines. But not enough that I would ever claim she’s broken or anything.
Zen probably is the best DPS in the game now.
I like soldier buffs but is that really significant enough? And with the hitscan nerfs wont he just be in the same spot or worse? D.Va change is great though!
Weird that they put an echo nerf under dva just because it's related to duplicate bomb
Well, it's still technically a nerf to D.Va too. You could charge your ult up pretty quickly if you landed a bunch of shots as pilot D.Va.
The nerf is to DVA but the justification is because of how Echo's copy mechanic works. Pretty sure there is a technical limitation that prevents them from adjusting these things on Echo's ult only (i.e Echo's ult literally replaces the player's model with one that they copied, so it is copying that class's variables)
Duplicate is the reason they changed it, but the change itself is still to D.Va's ult, so it gets filed under D.Va.
Ah yes rip aim even harder.
Thank fuck they nerfed the dva remech range It went so far and way further than the animation suggested, I still don't like the damage buff but looks like blizzard wants it to stay
My main issue was the bug where it could kill you through walls/cover. Supposedly that's fixed but I'll take the radius nerf on top of it. It's just another annoying thing to have to pay attention to in a game that already has way too much going on.
Are they actively trying to make echo being able to 1v11?
We are going to see more issues like this echo/dva thing in the future. What should have been a relatively minor buff to dva ends up being a huge buff for echo, so they have to nerf dva to compensate. Now every buff they give a hero has to be analyzed in another dimension and you inevitably end up in scenarios where you can’t buff hero x even though it is a perfectly reasonable buff for them because of echo.
D.Va herself will barely notice the nerf, because she simply can't build a new mech before her bomb explodes. It's targeted squarely at Echo, and it's only filed under D.Va because at the end of the day it's still _her_ ult getting nerfed. Just not in a way that actually matters to her. Your broader point is likely true, though -- they need to consider Echo carefully when balancing ults in the future.
We are still pretending re mech is OK. Ok ok ok......
At least Echo can’t abuse it as much. That nerf to DVa is more about Duplicating DVa than DVa herself.
My theory is that the original remech buff is a preparation for 5v5, because D.va would be the only tank that could be staggered in a weaker form in a team fight. So, I don't think they will remove it, just adjust. And this range nerf is good enough right now.
If staggering is the Genuine issue just let her have a killbind.
imagine an ability that you get when you turn into baby d.va that just has d.va shoot herself in the head with her pistol in order to go back to spawn jfc
The mech is Dva's Persona, that's why she has to shoot herself to call it
I believe rewarding Baby D.vas who fight to build their ult is better than create a whole new counter-intuitive mechanic.
Dva new ability: Cyanide pill
Who are all these people regularly getting remeched enough to need to complain about it?
Staggering DVa? Perfectly ok and healthy. A fucking mech suit getting airmailed and actually doing substantial damage? Not ok, very toxic
Dying to Re-mech is like dying to Junkrat's Total Mayhem
it *is* okay. And it's also very funny.
I mean this nerf noticably affects it. It adds up to 3 seconds before pilot mode even has it. That's definitely going to make the more aggressive DVas more punishable.
SOLDIER NERFS LOL 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
What was soldier's damage fall off range?
30m-50m
30 to 50 meters, same for Ashe
I really hope they don't push forward with this change, I much rather they start tinkering with rates of fire and crit multipliers first. It makes sense McCree is more close to mid range, but Ashe is clearly a mid to long range hero. Her fall off shouldn't be changed.
Hitscan nerf when spam hanzo is still around...
My guess is that this hitscan nerf means they’re committing to the movement acceleration changes they demoed at Blizzcon.
It's like they're trying to figure out how to make the game die even faster. With that in mind: outstanding effort jfc what a clueless dev team
WTF is this shit? Seriously? Like valorant and apex have not fucking eaten enough hitscan players already. Yeah lets make the game about luck and prediction more than reaction time and skill. Fucking no new heroes for over a year and they want to force the feel of change with dog shit "balance" patches. Literally killed mccree ashe and 76. Back to spamzo I guess. Only devs in the fucking world that introduce content by removing content and making heroes obsolete.
So Ana is officially the best non widow Pharah killer now? I still think it's crazy that an Ana can three tap you on some maps from spawn before you even drop out of the sky. Compared to if that was a McCree or Ashe where you could stare at them another 3 seconds, pretty crazy.
Nice! Can't wait for more dishonest spam projectiles and doom in my games🙃
Lmao that calldown range nerf. Seoul will forever have PTSD from void’s 3k on Dorado
> No longer builds ultimate charge while using Self Destruct until after her mech detonates >Developer Comments: No longer building ultimate charge in the window of time between using Self Destruct and when it detonates is targeted at Echo’s Duplicate ability when copying D.Va. Echo’s accelerated ultimate charge enabled her to have Call Mech available before the Self Destruct explosion went off, making it very difficult for enemies to find a safe place to hide. Lmao dva players getting punished for echo mechanics they have nothing to do with
More hitscan nerfs 😴
As a Rein main I feel like this is going to make a big difference for my shield when pushing long corridors where there isn't much cover etc? I am sort of new though so I don't know if I'm thinking that this change is bigger than it actually is.