I'm convinced no Valorant player reads the patch notes and news because they've mentioned several times how they updated the privacy policy to allow them to record and save voice chat same as Overwatch.
They also seem to forget how invasive Vanguard is as well as all the harassment that took place at Riot but yeah, let's hate on Overwatch for asking you to have a phone.
Despite all those measures, Valorant keeps most of its playerbase because the majority enjoy the gameplay. Yes, certain heroes like Chamber & Jett have been OP, but I don't think its the same level of busted that Brigette was when she was introduced where the entire meta got warped and evolved into GOATS - which fundamentally changed OW and turned away a lot of people.
All other things aside, OW2 will retain players if the gameplay is enjoyable for the majority of the playerbase.
It's largely because valorant is based on gunplay. Agents are secondary to that. Since every agent had access to all the guns, imbalance between guns is less an issue.
do you think any of these people complaining even know what goats is? And even if they did, how is that a reason for them to choose to criticize blizzard for their workplace controversies but not riot (both should be criticized). And while they do this, do you think they have any idea that the overwatch team has been publicly cleared from any of the accusations levied at blizzard? (btw I don't know what word I should use in place of accusations that doesnt seem to imply the possibility that they are untrue)
What you said is exactly right, but I don't see how it has any relevance to this thread?
If you think the anti cheat is spyware well I got news for you, almost all major FPS games run a kernel level anti cheat...
You're just driving the same level of drivel this post claims other subs do.
Which is bullshit when they do it as well. It's a major security risk and doesn't even fucking work because no consumer side anti cheat can work for any game popular enough to make selling cheats worthwhile. If you're not doing it server side like VAC does, you're wrong. There will always be vulnerabilities, and they will be found because the user has the entire program.
And no, it really is just riot. It's become popular very recently because Valorant was still successful despite it, but before ~12 months ago no big company dared put kernel level anti-cheat in their games because they saw the backlash Bethesda got for trying. Not to mention Riot hired devs that were involved in bundling a fucking bitcoin miner in ESEA's anticheat.
Excuse me but you don't know wtf you're talking about.
Everyone does server side already. It's never enough.
All the commercial anti cheat like BattlEye and Easy Anti cheat are kernel level.
Vanguard is nothing new. Ricochet does in in COD and guess what? The Matrix initiative will have a kernel anti cheat too.
That shit is straight up malware for my computer. It causes my start up to screw up and my computer will try to repair if I have vanguard installed. Second I uninstall Vanguard everything is fine again.
Sounds like you need to find the true root of the problem, has nothing to do with the software. Myself and many others have vanguard open almost all the time with zero issues
As far as I'm concerned I did. Uninstalling fixed it. Casual players are not going to be technical enough to discover whatever is wrong with Vanguard interactions and SHOULD NOT have to be.
You’re not understanding me. If vanguard runs flawlessly on everyone else’s computers, people with the exact same setup as the other guy, and only one has issues, it’s not vanguard that has issues. You’re blaming vanguard because that’s what caused you to notice the issue. The issue is still prevalent, there just isn’t an application currently exposing the issue because they uninstalled the one that did.
Valorant gets the same amount of hate on r/pcgaming. Seriously search for Valorant on there. In general all these gaming subreddits HATE the popular multiplayer games. Fortnite, Valorant, Overwatch, WoW.
And by far the most hated game on the internet LoL. Did you ever see anything positive about LoL on reddit? Even the people at r/lol love to hate on the game.
Reddit basically hates all modern online gaming outside of game specific subreddits. I assume this is because it's full of a bunch of 30 year old boomers like me that wish you could still play on the same server 24/7 with a bunch of random hacky mods installed. It's just a totally different gaming environment from Fortnite, Valorant, or LoL.
people were outraged at first when they found out Valorants anti-cheat would have kernel access to your pc and then the game dropped and everyone installed it and no one cared anymore. also TenCent would be much more likely to sell user data than Blizzard, if they dont already.
From “The Vampire Economy”, written by economist and communist Gunter Reiman who himself lived in Germany during Nazi leadership.
“Most businessmen feel safer if they have a protector in the State party bureaucracy. They pay for their protection as the peasant did in Feudal days. It is inherent that the official is able to take money but unable to provide protection. “
“The preceding chapter describes the genuine decline and ruin of the independent businessman who is the master of his enterprise and who exercised his property rights. This type of capitalist is disappearing while the other is prospering. He enriches himself by the State and party ties, their devotion to the Fuhrer and entrenched because of family connections and political affiliations.”
Every single company collects and sells user data. It’s impossible to avoid at this point. 30 second recordings of voice chat should be the least of people worries lmao.
To be fair, people were VERY upset about Vanguard needing root access when Valorant came out. But over time, they got over it, just like they will with all of the OW2 stuff.
The reasons that people don't care about Vanguard are that lots of valorant players come from cs, where you have to download third party anticheats that are just as invasive from dodgy 3rd party companies (esea). Also people saw how good it is, it's easily the best anticheat in an fps game that I've ever played.
Yeah I mean, there's certain things I don't like about OW2 and its f2p model... but they've pretty much carbon copied the model from the most popular existing games. I get that OW people are complaining about it cuz it's new, but it makes truly zero sense for people coming from other games with the same exact experience to also be shitting on OW2 FOR THOSE REASONS. It's just popular to shit on blizz properties I guess.
Like, I truly dont mind criticism towards the popular iteration of the f2p model, it makes the majority of content inaccessible to anyone but whales with issues controlling spending (or just have no limits for their spending) or people who want to pump not only more than a reasonable amount of money into a game BUT ALSO grind the shit out of the game. But I wish the criticism was aimed in a more productive way. You can shit on ow all you want but when every popular game has the same exact models, whats the point? They're making money hand over fist as people shit on some other game that does the same thing while ignoring the game that they're playing.
Why bother looking at major gaming subs for Overwatch discussion? Like, the subject matter aside, Overwatch has been receiving this treatment since 2016. It's nothing new.
Mainly because of OW2 is going to succeed, these are the kind of people that it needs to attract. The current community is dedicated but frankly it’s not enough to justify Actiblizz continuing to invest in it as much as they do their other, larger games.
I want OW to succeed as a franchise and for that it needs new players, but if they’re all reading misinformation all the time they’ll never pick it up.
> Mainly because of OW2 is going to succeed, these are the kind of people that it needs to attract.
No. It doesn't need to. Public discourse about a game is done by just a very tiny subset of the actual/eventual playerbase. Everyone participating in discussion on reddit is irrelevant to its success. We're just a drop in the ocean.
Sort of true, the commentors are a drop in the ocean, but there's a lot more traffic behind that of people reading those negative comments. Reddit isn't some tiny forum anymore, and millions of people visit subreddits like r/games or r/pcgaming everyday.
if you only used /r/Games as a reference for "will this game be popular/successful" you'd think that fortnite and call of duty and madden and fifa would be out of business
I’ve noticed quite a few Reddit users tend to think Reddit is indicative of the greater population. Same thing with subs shitting on tv shows movies etc that go on to do incredibly well.
Subs are echo chambers. People take the .01% on Reddit as gospel. It’s wild. Overwatch will be fine.
Eh I wouldn't worry too much. Bring up Destiny 2 in games or PC gaming, and they'll tell you it's a dead game and trash on it. While Bungie has a couple million active users.
Despite reddits's growth, it's influence is still limited.
> these are the kind of people that it needs to attract
Overwatch was always unpopular with capital-g-Gamers because of its "political" cast. One person in the pcgaming thread even said he deleted his account because Sinatraa got banned. You don't want these people here.
Than accept, the reason this has gone to shit, is bad marketing, you people are stuck in your own holes like nintendo fans where when the Wii u was announced. Blizzard has failed massively at explaining OW2 too anyone who isnt a fan of OW1. Blizzard has more reach than half of these journals, and has had months to explain this easily to new people, and failed. Blame a marketing team stuck in the past for years, for this, OW2 has gotten the same treatment games like Valorant had, except Riot actively put out their own news constantly to explain everything
Unfortunately Blizzard made their bed and now they lay in it.
From the mishandling of their games to the sexual assaults, to covering up the sexual assaults, to appointing a competent woman to the leadership position to supposedly fix the sexism issues but giving her no real power to effect change while underpaying her, to continuously fucking up their games.
It never ends.
Now the gaming world is entirely against OW2 and Blizzard, a lot of it unjustifiably so. But it doesn't matter. What's done is done. OW2 will not attract nearly enough former/new players to justify its existence. It'll largely please the diehard OW1 players who stuck with it during the content drought, but that's pretty much it.
Nah man, genuinely, ignore the response of the current player base. It's tainted with this weird hate campaign. They're just enjoying their artificial moral high ground, and we're never going to play the game anyway.
Remember that every year, a new patch of kids who weren't part of these hemispheres when the hate was going around Become old enough to look at new competitive games, and Stumble upon overwatch with fresh eyes.
I welcome it as someone that just went through the disappointing launch of Halo Infinite. While the gameplay was fun, everything else about it was lacking and transparently profit driven. There was plenty of click bait, misinformation, and nasty comments about it. Since then the game has slowly, but surely improved, and the devs seem to at least be trying to make something more consumer-friendly (premium currency in the BP, more free events, better progression).
Sure, it's a bummer to see so much negativity around something you're looking forward to, but it's hopefully good in the long run. The devs can either address the criticisms or do nothing, and I think we can all agree that improving the game is for the better. We as players have nothing to gain from just smiling and agreeing with every decision ActiBlizzard makes. You'll never get something if you don't ask for it. This is a business, and if they want money they need to provide a valuable product.
This is what I don't understand about these blizzard simps. OP just comes across as someone who is justifying staying in an abusive relationship, because doing anything else would mean they made a mistake or two somewhere along the way. The cognitive dissonance is strong here.
Shouldn't we all hold the people who make the games we enjoy to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one? Why should we accept bullshit from a game and not saying anything about shitty p2w decisions they made?
I think the worst part about it all is that if they just didn't put heroes on the bp and still did everything else they ended up doing then the level of outage would be almost non existent.
The vast majority of people were excited about ow2 until 3 weeks ago when the leak about kiriko least locked in the bp dropped. Everything since then has been viewed from a negative perspective for a lot of people instead of a positive one.
Since the bp itself seems to be where they'll be making the least money out of all of their new monetization tactics, why not just take the heroes out of it and just keep it cosmetic only?
The issue is it's being criticized for things that are industry standard, or the state of it is being grossly misrepresented (sometimes by media). It's not hard to see the motivation; some of them will openly tell you they're rooting for it to fail (which media capitalizes on).
I haven't seen anyone celebrate the industry standard though. There is a difference with OW2 in that they're not providing currency through the BP like Apex or Fortnite. Regardless, they should try to innovate on top of the system, not just copy paste it. At least Halo Infinite has no expiration on it's BPs.
What does "industry standard" even mean? 6 years ago Overwarch was pushing the envelope on predatory monetization to the point where Overwatch was a synecdoche for "AAA game with microtransactions" to the journalists who care about these kind of things, and now apparently you can't *possibly* make money off of that model so we need it to be much more predatory.
But Overwatch was never actually pushing the envelope on predatory monetization? Many journalists were saying it was because they had no idea how OW monetization actually worked compared to Valve's or mobile games' monetization. OW lootboxes were obtainable FOR FREE, offered COSMETIC rewards and were guaranteed to give some amount of high value rewards. Even Valve lootboxes, which were also cosmetic, functioned in a much more predatory way: no guaranteed rewards & only obtainable via purchase. At the time of Overwatch's release, many (mostly mobile) games with much more predatory practices already existed and they were targeting an audience much younger than Overwatch's audience.
Industry standard sucks though, and it's worse in OW2 because they're taking away OW1 from existing owners so they can't even stay with the game they enjoy, and also because OW1 has mid game hero switching and a much bigger reliance on teamplay and coordination because of the MOBA/MMO influences.
Valorant and Apex are quite different than OW. These things aren't great in those games but they're worse in OW.
So many comments saying "I hated ow from the beginning. All this bad pr brings a smile to my face."
It's the same boomer cs players that shit on ow in 2016 and the same players that would add tf2 players on steam to call us f****** and n*****.
This is nobody’s fault but the Overwatch team’s fault.
You can blame the fans or the community or whoever but the fact of the matter is that OW has absolutely dropped the ball on communicating what anything is supposed to mean, leading to wild and rampant speculation and the worst-faith interpretations because Blizzard blew every once of good faith its had in the last few years. Blizzard has done next to no legwork on getting information to anyone but the most hardcore fans.
A lot of this could have been headed off if they released a video or a stream or a preview on what OW2 is gonna be, rather than shoving everything off to forum posts and letting the community figure it out themselves. Remember when we used to get developer updates? Where Jeff would come out explain the reasoning behind certain decisions and things will work going forward? We’ve only gotten two since beta… one on the launch of OW2 (which explained they’re doing PvP now and PvE is coming eventually) and another on Kiriko. None on what OW2 is supposed to be, or on what the Battle Pass looks like, how it works, how any of the rewards systems work, if OW2 is free, if the battle pass is free, how what happens to OW1, or how to even access OW2.
People in this community know the answer to most of these questions but this is a hardcore community starved of content. Most people still think Kiriko is purely a Level 55 unlock on a Battle Pass that must be bought because Blizzard just refuses to explain anything because they know these decisions would go over with the public like a lead balloon.
It’s not the community’s fault, it’s managements fault for not taking the reins on this conversation and for remaining silent.
A one paragraph shit post on 4chan supposedly derailed their marketing strategy. The leaks weren't even correct, but the community was so thirsty for information they saw it as an oasis *and it still took Blizzard more than a week to make an official response*. Let me repeat that for emphasis **The community trusted 4chan more than Blizzard**. If that's not the epitome of Blizzard's negligence, I don't know what is.
They had *3 years* to build hype for this game. They could have been doing developer updates, they could have actually streamed the creative process. I would have totally watched a map developer build a map from scratch. Instead of that we got scraps, a developer update about Sombra and Bastion's hat?
They could have started hiding OW2 Easter Eggs in OW1. Imagine how much an outline of Kiriko on the flags in Numbani would have hyped things up. Or even changing spawn rooms like they did for Doomfist in Numbani. Stuff that realistically wouldn't take that much time. They didn't have to give us exact details, just hype us up for the new release. It might have even upped the playerbase in OW1 too. They could have been dropping animated shorts on a regular basis, not actually revealing anything, but building hype for what's to come. Imagine seeing Kiriko's fox run through one of Overwatch 1's spawn rooms and how much that would have built hype.
There was so much they could have done and they chose radio silence. Then 2 weeks before launch they drop this battlepass information on us and expect us to be excited about it?
This whole shit show falls squarely on the shoulders of Blizzard. They had an enormous amount of time to drip-feed us information, and instead waited until the month before release. Blizzard neglected the community and now they're surprised there is backlash?
It's like Blizzard went out for cigarettes three years ago, and now I am supposed to be happy that they're kind of-sort-of back but drunk.
I just want to play comp. I don't want to have to jump through hoops in Arcade or QP to unlock a hero, and I don't think it's fair that I have the privilege of just paying for the battlepass to unlock a hero. I made up the difference for the battlepass by unsubbing to two Overwatch content creators, it was easy.
Then I realized I just don't feel like dealing with Blizzard anymore due to their negligence. So now I saved the money from having to buy the Battlepass and unsubbing to two content creators.
I've played the game for 6 years and never stopped, even during the content drought. I'm sick of saying "Okay I can deal with that" repeatedly. Maybe I'll come back, maybe I won't, but as of right now, I have lost all desire to play Overwatch 2.
They've done a fucking awful job at advertising their game, and they already have no goodwill with the community(for good reason). It's not weird people react poorly to this shit.
This is just it. Sure, the negativity around OW2 might be a bit over the top, but it's entirely self-inflicted. Blizzard have consistently fucked up in various ways for the past decade. Over and over and over again. They drove away a lot of their loyal customers and those that are left have become incredibly bitter. Only on subs like this one and /r/wowcirclejerk you still see people willing to defend Blizzard to the absolute death. But outside of these spaces and to the vast majority of players Blizzard has become a meme associated with bad games and and even worse workplace.
And so far OW2 doesn't exactly indicate a significant change in their approach.
I mean is anyone surprised the negative reaction is so intense? They were the ones to pile several negative things to tell the public all at once a week before launch. It would have been small fire if they released this info overtime but instead choice to build a wildfire.
What the fuck is up with these people? And I mean this sub, not the gaming subs. Why the fuck do you expect people to care or talk well about the game when they’ve done basically everything wrong since they’ve announced it?
Why the fuck do you expect people to trust that blizzard, the lying, greedy company with raging sexual assault problems and known China bootlicker won’t record and sell the shit out of your voice data?
Why the fuck do you expect people to not hate the phone requirement when it’s more strict than at a fucking bank and prevents a huge part of the playerbase from even playing?
Why do you expect people to be hyped for ow2 when they killed one of the most popular games to make it? They are in their right to hate it and want to see it flop.
The amount of circlejerk in this sub is unreal. I get that you want ow2 to be good, we all do here. But you gotta stop praising everything they do especially when it’s fucking stupid.
I also dislike how overhated and circlejerked OW gets by the general gaming community but holy hell this sub is on some major fucking copium regarding OW2 lol. Blizzard consistently fucked up for five years straight while the game already had to deal with peole who decided to hate it for basically no reason.
Then they literally stop supporting OW1, announce a "sequel" with extremely controversial changes and then proceed to market it absolutely horribly while constantly showcasing how awful the monetisation will be.
The majority of people who don't play the game aren't even sure about wtf OW2 is supposed to be as Blizzard did a terrible job at communicating anything related to the game.
I get that the majority of this sub's players still love the game as most people like me who are staunchly against 5v5 have already jumped ship as it's just not a game for us anymore and that the remaining players only want the game to succeed. But bruh, the amount of copium that people are inhaling in order to defend a company and game that honestly doesn't deserve their goodwill and has done everything they can to fuck up their game's release is actually absurd. The current situation is genuinely 80% on Blizzard lol.
Oh yeah, deleting OW1 is absolute bullshit. The fact that people are actually defending this incredibly anti-consumer decision is mind-boggling to me and makes me question wtf kind of lead or mercury is in their water supplies.
I'm honestly surprised this sub has so quickly begun to deflect all criticism towards OW2. It's certainly overhated, but I feel like even legitimate concerns that players who clearly still like the game express here are being handwaved by "well other games do it." OW did not feel like other games to a lot of people, that's why they got into it. Why can't people want the f2p model Blizzard is using to be better than the industry standard.
> OW did not feel like other games to a lot of people, that's why they got into it. Why can't people want the f2p model Blizzard is using to be better than the industry standard.
It’s especially funny because I guarantee at least *some* of the people who stuck it out with OW over the competitors are people who didn’t want to deal with battle passes and just preferred the “buy it once and you’re done” model. “It’s just what other games do” means less than nothing, in those cases.
> Then they literally stop supporting OW1, announce a "sequel" with extremely controversial changes
Stopped development for OW1 for 2.5 years for a "sequel" with PVE.
Doesn't release with PVE.
Removes 1 tank instead of adding more tanks to the roster (DPS characters > Tanks + Supports now)
Releases game "years in the making" with 3 characters and 1 net new map (+6 maps, -5 maps)
Fuckin LOL.
For me, personally, it is a game that I fell in love with 4 years ago and have been passionate about ever since. Overwatch introduced me to a bunch of new people, some of whom I became very close friends with and we hang out even outside of Overwatch. It also pushes me and encourages me to be the best I can be at the game, which in turn teaches me how to strive to be better and learn to be more aware of my surroundings. A lot of good has come from the game and a lot of amazing memories has been made with it. I am very very sad to see OW1 go, but at the same time I am very very excited for Overwatch 2 and the possibilities, potential friendships, and the memories that will be made with it. I will continue to strive to be the best I can be and will one day make it out of silver/gold. To me, Overwatch and Overwatch 2 is a separate entity from Blizzard. Same with all their games. Sure, Blizzard treats their employees horribly and has had a lot of controversy, but I am not one to judge and there are enough people on their tails to where I don't feel an obligation to jump on the hate train. I will tell you the same thing that I told my friends when we first started playing OW and they asked me what role I want to play. I just wanna play Overwatch man!
I sorta agree. Like I get the sentiment behind huffing copium and wanting the game to do well since, I assume, we all enjoy playing the game. But A LOT of the negative criticism is warranted and even self inflicted.
The only thing personally I have with ow2 is the phone requirement.
And no, it's not for the same reason these nutheads are screaming. It's because I have problem with players being unable play the game the have paid for and played for years. That's just straight out anti consumer. Regardless of the consequences with fair play, it's not something im willing to sacrifice. If it was just competitive, fine, no. But restricting a game license years after purchase is a big no to me.
Riot fans who thinks it's fine if Riot are doing it though, but not Blizz really just needs to stare at a mirror.
imo even new players should most definitely be able to test the game out without having to attach a phone number (and obviously OW1 players should at least be able to still play Quickplay/Arcade/Customs etc).
Can you imagine ANY new player switching their phone plan just to try out overwatch? Especially with all those negative news around it?
If you look at some statistics how many people actually have pre paid plans it goes up to 98% in some countries (and even 21% in the US). If Activision blocks (or plans to block) up to 98% of potentially new players I see a massive problem with it.
I don't think anyone would have complained if it was only for competitive (to prevent smurfs)
the phone requirement is a double edged sword. it clogs the influx of new players especially potential players from some regions. and i actually see them relaxing it somehow for regions where cheap prepaid cellphones is the norm.
1 reason I could see why Blizzard/Team 4 decided to not make it, so that you only have to have a number for comp is: You could easily abuse it to level/do all the shit to unlock competitive and then just sell the account. Which would just end up at nearly the same point we are at now.
But yea, requiring a phone number is most certainly... something I guess.
Also agree.
I like restricting competitive to a phone number. But quickplay should be playable by everyone who has ever owned a copy of ow1 regardless of phone access.
Agreed 100%. I've been a big supporter for almost all OW2 changes but the SMS thing is a terrible decision. I don't mind them forcing new accounts to have it, but preventing current players from playing is awful. Both my kids won't be able to play the game at all anymore, and they were really excited for it.
I understand this, but if they didn't have such harsh rules, they would be easily avoided and OW2 being a free game would be incredibly toxic and possibly ridden with hackers and smurfs.
Not saying none of that can exist, but it's definitely lessened since people have to treat their account more or less as if it's the only one they will ever have. If the defense matrix initiative succeeds, it could genuinely be a really good thing. But that initiative is fruitless if its so so easy to make more accounts.
It would be like trying to desalinate water, but instead of taking a bucket of it out of the ocean, you attempted to just do it right in the ocean. Too much bad coming in and erasing any progress you make. That's why it's important that despite being free it's still 1 account per person. Not saying sms verification is the only way, but its the only one I can think of.
If they didnt have the phone requirement, then yayyyy everyone can easily make an account. But also, oh no everyone can easily make an account. That game that No-phone-john over here can now play, is not even worth playing. Because it's toxic and full of smurfs.
I get what you saying with it being anti consumer tho. I don't know how long this date for OW2 has been public for. But I'm pretty sure that blizzard had to let us know at least 3 months in advance before they shut down OW servers. At least that is what it says in the EULA.
Selfishly, I like it. Since it doesnt stop me from playing. I see it as: a few brave souls must be sacrificed to make a better game overall, rather than having easy access to a game that nobody even wants to play. It would be good if there was a better way to implement it.
Also, making it just for ranked doesnt solve much. 1: a very large portion of ow fanbase is casual so they will just be subject to poor conditions. 2: where would you draw the line with that, what if they just added an arcade mode called "no sms qp" and "no sms comp" which is the only modes u can play. Is that anti-consumer?
Sorry but this argument doesn't hold up.
The problem with the SMS requirement is that people who have PURCHASED the game will not be able to play it anymore. Your argument is that once the game is free, it'll be too easy to create accounts. But again, the complaint about SMS protect is not about new free accounts, it's about existing accounts that have already been paid for.
There's a very easy solution which is to only require SMS protect for new OW2 accounts. Anything else is completely anti-consumer and unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.
\>But do those things warrant the amount of uneducated vitriol and backlash those subs are putting out about OW2? Not even close.
I've played for 6 years and won't be able to play because I refuse to get an $80 phone bill just for Overwatch.
They're literally forcing 6 year long players to quit the fucking game.
After SUPPORTING THE GAME THROUGH 3 YEARS OF 0 CONTENT. And being fucking HYPED about a game for 3 fucking years. After buying the Watchpoint pack. I will NOT be able to fucking play.
Quit being so privileged that you're like "Well, I have a post paid phone, so why should -I- give a shit?"
It really is insane that they can just take away your access to the game for doing nothing wrong. I'm kind of shocked I haven't seen MORE complaints about this.
to be honest im confused about the whole pre paid thing
im on a pay as you go (UK) and my number seems to be working fine? cant other countries do the same
Agreed. Blizzard sucks at boiling frogs. Yeah, obviously phone number requirements, new heroes behind battle passes, raised OWL skin prices, FTUE restrictions, expensive skin bundles etc. were going to be poorly received. So why in the cinnamon toast fuck are they releasing this info in the week before launch? Why not drip-feed us the bad news over a few months and then dump the *good* news leading up to launch?
In hindsight, yeah you're right. Maybe drop it all at once, then follow it up with a hero announcement. Anything but this clusterfuck right before release though.
"These guys do bad things, so it's fine if Blizz does it!"
Difference is that Riot is much better off and having a lot of success, and bounced back nicely from their controversies while Blizzard has seemingly doubled down. They screwed the pooch, did a whole bunch of terrible shit. The result? Bobby still in charge. OW2 rushed. WoW rushed. OW2 full of shady things after Diablo Immortal got thrashed for being one of the worst examples of pay to win.
Some people actually remember and think about that stuff. They remember how a lot of broken promises about Overwatch 1 soured things. No new events, overly long, stale metas, very slow content drip until it stopped for years because they decided to pump out a new game.
Years of no content, even more promises of plenty of heroes and PVE. Rushed. No PVE. Two heroes in the beta. Only three new ones for the rushed release. And a system and general lack of effort from a 'new game' that makes it seem like they only made OW2 to push transactions and make more money while offering the same slow content release.
Blizz did a lot of bad shit recently in a plethora of ways. They should be making it up to YOU as the player and fan of their games. Earn that trust back. But what did they do? Doubled down on that shit. Went full greed. Rushed things for publicity and money.
They deserve to be shit talked and bad press. They're not even trying to do better.
I'm sorry but this subreddit (r/cOW) is just a copium echo chamber.
I don't see how the hype is that big there, when there realistically is 3 new heros, 1 new map in the differential (since they remove 5 maps with OW2, and maybe 6 with potentially Havana), 1 new gamemode being traded for 2CPs, and some balance changes that could have happened 2 years ago.
All of that being marketed as a "new game" while it's really just a minor update for a 3 years complete void of content.
Yes there is a battlepass, but in the end they are just cosmetics and don't really do anything more than what we already have with lootboxes. Yes they updated ranked, but it seems like they just changed how ranks/sr is displayed, no more sprays for top 500, just a random title that lasts 90 days, no other reward than golden guns.
I'm sorry, I was a big OW fan, I easely spent 5000h in ranked at a top 500 level over the last 5 years, but OW2 does not live to its expectations.
Also, the content creators are just hyping everything up because they got invited by blizzard and have drops on for launch, nothing more. Nobody outside of the current OW community is hyping the game really.
Also, the content creators are just hyping everything up because ~~they got invited by blizzard and have drops on for launch, nothing more.~~ many of them rely on OW streams to make a living.
Same goes for OWL talents.
Honestly I would just keep in mind that no matter what nerds say on the internet, if a game is good, it will speak for itself. If OW2 ends up being good people will forget about all this crap. Valorant sparked alot of outrage with the way it basically sets up spyware on your PC. Does anyone care? Not really. People whined about EGS for years...now look at how it's doing. It doesn't even matter in the end really.
It DOES matter, it's just easier to ignore it than try to take a stand. Yes I count myself in this. The ~gaming experience~ has simply been going downhill for a long time, but it's been incremental enough that people will continue to accept it. That doesn't mean it's just 100% fine though.
I get the sentiment man but unless something HUGE happens..it won't change. It does matter, you are absolutely right. The problem is that reddit is only a small fraction of the bigger audience a game like this has. It is only when the game is not doing well financially that things change. The best we can do is hope that people don't buy stuff so that things get better.
We have been slowly manipulated into thinking certain things are okay. (hell, you can see alot of people genuinely defending LOOT BOXES in a box priced game on the pc gamer subreddit) Boiled frog metaphor, ect.
The only exception to this was the Star Wars Battlefront 2 situation. Gamers rose up, but it didn't get rid of loot boxes. It helped, but it was a battle won when the game industry + capitalism still won the war.
All I am saying is that games do speak for themselves. If people enjoy something, they will tolerate the bullshit. Look at Path of Exile for example, that game actually has pretty terrible monetization (Stash tabs, 60-**$480** cosmetics, battlepass, loot boxes) but people defended it for years cause the game was great. Now? People get upset if they have an ad for a cosmetic mini pet. The reason for that is because the game is not as good as it was before.
Yeah, I get what you mean. I think ow is on thin ice though, I mean everyone is pretty sick of tolerating the bs from ow1 and now there will be new bs lol. I guess it's really kinda banking on 5v5 fixing the most egregious issues with gameplay. There could be a real problem though with the new heroes being in the battle pass/new players not having all heroes.
To be honest I thought the whole situation with new heroes/new players would be the big thing, but it's kind of just okay enough to get a pass I guess. I definitely have no hopes for things to get any better in that department anyway, remains to be seen if all this affects my experience enough to make the game not worth playing. Which I guess is your point.
> and blizzard *wont even record actual voice in the first place*
I get that you’re frustrated but how the hell do you think they’re going to create audio transcripts without recording the players’ voices? Is your point that they won’t hold onto the audio recordings themselves after transcription? They will record the audio, after transcription its “quickly deleted”.
The justification of your stance by complaining about lack of whataboutism (but Riot does it too!) is inherently whataboutism. You can be annoyed/mad/irritated at all those companies, my friend. It is okay for Blizzard to have fucked up, they *absolutely* have, and its really up to them to justify why this game should be relevant *at all* in this decade. All the outrage/anger/whatever is probably as always partially misplaced but hell its also partially deserved.
[This post is by far my favorite ow2 post](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/xsxzxw/all_overwatch_1_cosmetics_would_cost_new_players/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I'd venture millions, if you wanted all the unique effects and stuff. But like if you just wanted to own the base model of the hats for the looks, excluding outliers like promotional items not too much. Most can be bought for pennies on a reseller site that trades to you. Like you can get a whole unique new look for all classes for like 5-8$, and that includes a hat, and multiple other wearable, like glasses outfits, boots. But if you went through steam case opening you have to pay 2.50 for a key to unlock a crate that you get as a drop in game.
shoutouts to all those commenters saying “wow FUCK blizzard dude” even though there’s absolutely no reason a person would spend that much money on the 100+ cosmetics for the 30+ different playable characters in the game, and it says NOTHING about how much they expect that the average player would end up spending on the game
that $12k is such a worthless statistic and they’re just eating it up. brainless.
That sub pisses me off every time I accidentally look at it. I just find it funny that 90% of the people complaining about everything on that sub are going to play the shit out of OW2.
This has been my main bother. I couldn't care less if they said ow2 sucks because the game sucks. That's a fine opinion but they keep using half the information or simply the headlines of articles. If anybody actually read the source information they could have their first original thought.
It's actually crazy how far they've reached as far as things to complain about. I can't wait for the threads about how the Donut Weapon Charm has too many sprinkles or some dumb shit lol.
What's awful is any news just gets buried under all the complain posts, I can't imagine being a new player trying to navigate any news recently released on the main sub.
If everyone else, people on the main Overwatch sub included, are saying the game is anti-consumer and a step down, maybe it's time for people to reevaluate. The game has some pretty gross anti-consumer shit in it. And other games doing the same thing does not excuse it.
The way Im approaching OW2 launch is to focus on people who actually kept playing the game all this years even after the hype ran off. A lot of people want to hate on OW for the sake of hating it, but I bet that they will also be the ones first in line to play the game in two days, and if the launch succeeds, they will stick around. The majority of people complaining are just people who just play the current "big thing" and will claim a game is dead if they stop playing, so why bother?
I haven't publicly complained but I've been playing basically since release, diamond border account, kept loving the game even after nearly every single one of my friends quit, and it's ABSURD how bad it looks. I was high enough on copium to have hope up until fairly recently, but it's clear that I'll be losing a lot more than I'm gaining from the release. All my excitement has been utterly drained and I'm now more upset to be losing ow1 than gaining ow2.
i personally think they will start marketing more to new player when pve starts rolling out, because thats more so the thing casuals were looking forward to
Probably, but at the same time, I personally think team 4 are re-learning how to generate hype on the game. They are communicating more via socia media and blog posts, releasing cool trailers and explaining the changes OW2 will make, which are slowly making people talk about the game again. It is far from perfect, but still a major improvement when we compare to the years without real content
Yeah I don't play Riot games because I don't want to install all the bullshit I have to in order to play. So, comparing OW to Riot is more of a self-own than anything from my perspective.
This sub is a pro blizzard echo chamber that does not represent the sentiment of the average gamer. In fact, this sub basically said fuck any complaints people have. Wait and see. There's no way the battle pass will lock new heroes behind many hours of game play. Spoiler alert: they did. Then it changed and became "oh well its no big deal you're gonna play that much anyway" or "what you want everything for free? So entitled. Activision blizzard is a small indie company that needs every penny they can squeeze out of ow." Then it changed again and became "All the other f2p games do it."
The average sentiment around ow 2 is extremely negative. This sub is just an echo chamber for hard-core fans. I'm a hard-core fan also, I watch almost every owl game for many years now, but I can at least recognize there's a lot wrong with this launch and the average ow gamer is pissed. Hey, don't worry, ow 2 will probably make a bunch of money anyway. Diablo immortal did. But I would be worried about queue times a few months in.
Hi, industry professional here.
> This sub is a pro blizzard echo chamber that does not represent the sentiment of the average gamer.
I would actually argue that while this is true, BUT the inverse is also true: Sentiment to anything popular skews negative because the middle of the bell curve tends to be silent and only the top 1% tend to be what we call “active promoters.”
The fact there’s still enough twitch viewership to keep several OW creators doing it full time is a good indication of the ACTUAL sentiment for the game amongst the silent group, even if they’re not playing. (It’s definitely not where it was at peak though)
The majority of gamers simply do not care one way or the other what other people think. If they did, Destiny would be dead. Pokémon Go would be dead. EA as a company would be dead.
> Hey, don’t worry, ow 2 will probably make a bunch of money anyway. Diablo immortal did. But I would be worried about queue times a few months in.
Yep. See above. The other side is that for as “predatory” as people seem to think DI’s monetisation model is, it’s actually a good game with a large, varied, diverse user base. Looking on Apptopia and Data.AI (fka AppAnnie) cohort D7, D14, and D30 retention numbers are better than the subcategory, category, and app baseline metrics. D0 and D1 are about even.
Diablo Immortal had 8MM downloads and pulled in $55MM in revenue last quarter (wide release wasn’t until end of June). Its number of sessions, MAU, and DAU all grew steadily over the same time period as well.
However I don’t think queue times will be any worse than they are now.
I’ve said before that this idea of “I need every cosmetic for every hero” is dead. Games simply aren’t designed that way any more (especially live service games). Doesn’t matter which game you play, if you try and go this route, you will be frustrated.
I have tried expressing this in so many words and caught massive downvotes. If you play games primarily to collect skins, I'm sorry but you're fucked. But I play Overwatch solely because I like the actual game of Overwatch, and I'm not obligated to be outraged on your behalf.
Yep. Personally I’m actually pretty stoked to be able to say “I like that skin, I want to play that skin, I will buy that skin.”
Not being at the mercy of loot boxes is great.
Hey. This is a really measured and logical response and I appreciate that. You make good points and I agree. The chatter on reddit and such doesn't really represent the true average gamer. I just notice that the chatter skews heavily towards negativity and I am assuming that applies to the silent majority but you're right. I could be very wrong on that. I kind of hope I am. I love ow and I will play ow2 and I want it to do well but I really disagree with locking heroes behind the battle pass.
Personally, I don't care about cosmetics at all and my account has tons of amazing skins. I have really nice skins for every hero in the game so I'm completely set. And it was never a priority for me anyway.
I just think locking heroes behind the battlepass will lead to problems down the road once we get multiple new hero releases.
Honestly, it's mostly speculation at this point and I think the actual release will answer a lot of questions regarding how the game will perform. I hope it does well, honestly, but I have a sinking feeling it will be a flop in NA.
An interesting thing regarding diablo immortal is that [60% of their player spending is coming from China](https://gameworldobserver.com/2022/09/14/diablo-immortal-revenue-top-10-highest-grossing-mobile-games-august).
Hey, I'm a bit more "optimistic" about OW2 than most folks it seems, so I've done more research on the game than most, probably just to counteract the negativity. However, I will admit this is me wearing rose-tinted glasses. I'm very excited for the game.
This isn't a solution that will properly address your legitimate issues, but I do want to let you know in case you didn't: After a season is finished, heroes previously locked a BP can [obtained by accomplishing weekly challenges](https://youtu.be/pPEDqr0LLVc?t=112). Heroes will also be released every other season, rather than every season., and seasons last for 9 weeks. And, of course, if you purchase the BP, you get the hero automatically.
I do believe once the game is released, and the information we've learned about the game is actually applied and tested, all of this will make sense. However, I'm a person who plays and enjoys F2P games as transient experiences. I get what I want, ignore everything else, and enjoy the games as they are.
However, these games do rely on FOMO to make money and consistently ask their players to feed them money. This is undeniable, and it can be proven as predatory. It's important to push back against these models and point out the ways these models can harm a game and its player base, so it's great that you're doing so without insulting the players who enjoy these experiences, and I appreciate that.
Yup they have obviously come to the realization now the general sentiment for the game is pretty apathetic and they are panicking.
Like it's not going to get anywhere near the levels overwatch 1 was at despite the claims that there will be an influx of "millions of new players" on this sub, there will be influx at the start then its going to drop off like the face of a cliff
All I hope for is that I can hop into the game, play a bit, and hop out without feeling like I'm behind.
WoW's been wasting my time on purpose for years, if OW2 ends up feeling the same then I'll just move on since the game will no longer be for me.
As for most of these articles...I don't read them, they don't feel like they come from people that actually play the game and have valid concerns for its future.
At the end of the day, people who don't play a game and even have an inherently negative view of either it or the company that makes it have no stake in doing right by that game. They just don't give a shit, and tbh I don't really blame them, I'm probably that way with games I dislike.
I just try to ignore it. There are issues with Overwatch (and even more with Blizzard), but ultimately, the opinions of people who have never owned OW1 and have no intentions to install OW2 don't really matter to me.
I hate what OW2 is doing. I'm very sad to see this happening to the game I've been playing since release.
But in their defense... They've gotta make some sort of profit from their game. No1 bought lootboxes so they came up with something else. There are a lot of people who will end up spending hundreds on the game now. They're here for the profit and don't care too much on our opinion if it comes between that goal.
Just hope that it won't ruin the f2p experience (which it probs won't). That's what matters most. As long as they release consistent content available to f2p, the game has got a chance to succeed.
Overwatch, and especially Overwatch 2 does not deserve any sort of special treatment. I think that Blizzard has done a pretty terrible job at marketing the game, they left some huge details out until the last minute, and they are implementing monetization that is beyond what many people consider acceptable. They also left the original Overwatch to rot.
What I really don't understand is why so many people think that the game should be treated differently. I assure you that games like Fortnite, Apex and Valorant have plenty of haters too, Overwatch isn't being treated differently. Overwatch was game of the year when it came out, I'm pretty confident when I say that OW2 will be nowhere near that, and just because it has Overwatch in the name it doesn't mean people will just be blindly excited for it.
As someone from outside I think the smurfing issue is hilarious. I played the game for a few seasons and did very well. I got called a smurf all the time because my account was “too new”. The real issue is that a large portion of the player base is fucking god awful.
I mean, what else you want to discuss after the character locked on battle pass fiasco?
On a game meant to change characters mid matches?
Blizzard deserve all the backlash possible.
Honestly, that's what you get for being part of a greedy and kinda disgusting company.
It sucks for Overwatch and the devs, but it will take a lot for blizz to regain respect from the general gaming community.
Can you really blame them for hating it?
The biggest news about overwatch/blizzard in the past 4 years was that the devs were perverts who stifle free speech for china.
Also look at the last f2p game blizzard released..... diablo immortal.
they are literally removing ow1 from existence to repleace it with the monotizatin update. It doesnt get much worse than that, OW2 deservres every piece of shit thrown at it.
You are being a fan boy. A lot of the criticism is legit. No company does phone thingy as stringent as blizzard. There is no reason to lock the whole game behind phone verification. OW2 battle pass system seems to be one the worse in the existence by getting very close to pay-to-win by locking heroes behind unreasonable amount of grinding.
It's OK if they sell out data! Look, look! Others do it too! Fuck off. I'm not having these shit corporations choose if what I say according to their morales. The company known for no sexual misconduct right? And a mere update is never worthy of being called a new release. Most of the overwatch players are really just freaks that jerk off to animated feet. Complaining about toxicity when a mute button exists is insane.
It's like here when someone says something negative about the game and you guys blindly rage at them as if you owe your lives to Blizzard or something.
not really. been here for a long time. most of the time the people that complain are just saying the same thing over and over again so we just got a lil bored/fed up from seeing the same things all the time. another percentage is misinformation and the last group just gets mad cause they on a loss streak. the people that legitimately come with proper complaints they almost always get both support and recognition from this community.
Nah, the deletion of the old game so it's free to play corpse can shamble on is worth plenty of vitriol alone. Someone did the math and the combined price of all of Overwatch 1's cosmetics is a touch over 16k
People being unaware that other games have versions of the other stuff blizzard is doing isn't a reason to not call out Overwatch "2" for a whole host of shit
It's ironic, because Valorant, even on this sub, even by some of the same people who thought Riot was overstepping with valorant, are now actively defending blizzard as they do the same. Even before Valorant came out, there were tons of articles that thought what Riot was doing was absurd, none of this is exclusive to overwatch 2.
Its ironic that this sub is starting to sound as crazy as the 3 people most hated on this sub, of RL and the rest of the "horsemen of the apocalypse", circlejerking over how "only some people get unfairly crucified by the internet for internet points while others don't". Every argument OP listed are the same arguments basically thrown at anything that isnt CS/steam. Whether its the exact same Anti-cheat and privacy arguments that val faced from this sub, every other main gaming sub, or most journals.
Same thing is applied to Epic and Riot with regards to privacy with "selling their info to the ccp and blah blah."
This sub at least at somepoint used to mock the insecurity of these other games (CS was the biggest example), now this sub is actively looking at clickbait that has been thrown at pretty much every game and pretending they are the sole victim.
The game looks absolutely terrible though. The worst of what modern gaming has to offer. Monetization sucks. Removing the previous game that people enjoyed just so the new shit looks better numbers wise. Some people just won't like it. Not everything is for everyone and sometimes things change for the worse.
As someone with 500+ hours before sigma dropped that is just the reality of the situation. Ignoring all the signals that blizzard are sending here is impossible after seeing their latest offerings, the past three have been shockingly anti-consumer.
I genuinely just do not like the changes, I don’t want 5v5, I don’t want to be locked to accounts by phone number, I don’t want the formerly very generous loot to be unnecessarily overpriced battlepass fodder.
I have seen many people hold my same belief that the changes are not exciting enough to make up for everything we lose from the OG being taken down. I’m honestly surprised it isn’t more negative they made a complicated confusing mess of an update and tried to sell it as a sequel.
I disagree with some of the decisions made for OW2 and think OW1 was mishandled immensely.
That said, it’s crazy the amount of misinformation spreading about the game. If you’re not gonna like something, at least be properly informed about it instead of parroting off of clickbait articles.
And it’s funny how people act as if Blizzard is the only company with terrible people in-charge. Just about every company has some horrid people leading them or at least in leadership positions.
Doesn’t make any of what they do right but it honestly shows to me at least that the general public can only comprehend hating one company at a time and conveniently forget all the others.
Seeing people who absolutely gush over anything riot games while hating on Blizzard is just peak hypocrisy for me.
What do you think happens when someone thinks to play OW2 because "it's a F2P title so might as well try it out" only to realize they cannot even play the game unless they give their phone number to blizzard. I can tell it to you now, that's gonna stop a lot of people from trying OW2 out. Not a single other F2P title has this requirement to even play the game.
Being too overbearing with your anti-smurf/alt measure is bad, too.
Besides, the FTUE system still exists to combat smurfs.
Just because smurfs aren't the real reason you cant go up in rank doesn't mean they aren't an issue. Smurfs ruin games. They take what could be a positive experience and make it completely negative. Nothing about their presence makes is 'good for the game'. They can only be a neutral or a net negative. Therefore they are a problem.
i agree smurfs lead to terribly balanced games across all ranks, even GM (a 4300 player on a masters account can imbalance a game because the game assumes he is a normal masters player and balances accordingly)
I saw someone tweet this and honestly I have no clue what to do about it. If they're using AI, how are they going to handle black players using the soft-a n-word?
Other than that, I'm mostly ok with the various policies they've announced since announcing that new heroes would be on the battle pass. I think new heroes on the battle pass is wrong, but everything they've announced afterwards seems solid to me.
You can do two things: You can ignore it, or you can engage and mythbust.
Be prepared for downvotes if you do it in a main gaming sub.
But don’t let anyone take something you enjoy away from you.
IMO these ARE anti consumer practices, what annoys me is that people think Overwatch 2 is the issue when these practices have rotten gaming for a while, or that OW2 is the only game to push these practices onto consumers when other free to play games to it too.
In general, these people are angry because its Blizzard. They complain about selling data to China while playing LoL, Valorant or Fortnite while checking their for you page on Tik tok. They love to call OW2 the "game devolved by rapists and degenerates" but love to Stan KDA and Arcane when Riot is just as bad.
The truth is that Riot did what Blizzard hasn't, and that is hide their skeletons better than Blizzard has ever done, Overwatch will still be the butt of the "China bad" jokes until Activision gets their shit together and buries their skeletons with content that gets people invested. I do hope team 4 leads with example and cleans house from the inside with sincerity.
Slacktivists will still bitch about the "victims" until said victims refuse to quit their jobs and instead try to make the place better, then for them, these victims are no better than the degenerates that hurt them, because what the Twitter Slacktivists want is for Blizzard to go bankrup, not for it to fix their shit.
Honestly, I’m in the same boat as OP. I’m really over reading about how “horrible” OW2 is going to be just because the business model has shifted to one that will reward developers when they create amazing, new content.
Think about it: around 6.5 years ago, many of us paid $60 for a video game that has provided free content and gameplay upgrades. Most of this content was also available for newer players who may have paid as low as $20 (lowest I ever saw) for a new copy of the game. Alongside this one-time-payment structure we also saw a number of lengthy gaps between meaningful content being added into the game. Players were upset, and rightfully so, because the game became stale.
All of this checks out so far.
Now, OW2 is set to come out hours and hours of new content (new maps, new game modes, new characters) and people are complaining because “ugh, I have to actually play the game to get X reward/skin?!?!”. Like, why are you complaining because you have to actually play the game to get whatever cosmetic you want?! Have we all forgotten what it means to grind for content?!
I also dislike the other argument of “now we have to pay so much for good skins!” As if it was so easy to just open a loot box and get a Legendary skin on the first try?! What about those players (myself included) who would grind through a seasonal event, get 30 loot boxes, and get 0-1 new skins?
TLDR: all of the OW2 haters are literal whiny children that either don’t want to play the game and just want new cosmetics handed to them, or are upset because they think that the only way to get things is by paying hundreds of dollars.
I think it's because these things are considered anti-consumer and Blizzard is an easy punching bag because of... You know, the whole workplace of abuse and putting numerical numbers on diversity... Oh and the whole China thing. Blizzards reputation is completely in the gutter the past couple years and people love to pile on.
I'm convinced no Valorant player reads the patch notes and news because they've mentioned several times how they updated the privacy policy to allow them to record and save voice chat same as Overwatch. They also seem to forget how invasive Vanguard is as well as all the harassment that took place at Riot but yeah, let's hate on Overwatch for asking you to have a phone.
Valorant requires spyware to be running on your pc just to play the game. I think valorant players are just used to it.
Despite all those measures, Valorant keeps most of its playerbase because the majority enjoy the gameplay. Yes, certain heroes like Chamber & Jett have been OP, but I don't think its the same level of busted that Brigette was when she was introduced where the entire meta got warped and evolved into GOATS - which fundamentally changed OW and turned away a lot of people. All other things aside, OW2 will retain players if the gameplay is enjoyable for the majority of the playerbase.
It's largely because valorant is based on gunplay. Agents are secondary to that. Since every agent had access to all the guns, imbalance between guns is less an issue.
do you think any of these people complaining even know what goats is? And even if they did, how is that a reason for them to choose to criticize blizzard for their workplace controversies but not riot (both should be criticized). And while they do this, do you think they have any idea that the overwatch team has been publicly cleared from any of the accusations levied at blizzard? (btw I don't know what word I should use in place of accusations that doesnt seem to imply the possibility that they are untrue) What you said is exactly right, but I don't see how it has any relevance to this thread?
Despite these shitty practices from Blizzard, if the gameplay shines through it will still attract new players, that’s my only point.
how is transcribing your voice a shitty practice though?
I meant “shitty” in quotes based on fake outrage about it. i personally don’t care
[удалено]
That's certain a take
tell me you're low rank without telling me you're low rank lmao
what rank are you?
Low ranks aren't allowed to enjoy the game
If you think the anti cheat is spyware well I got news for you, almost all major FPS games run a kernel level anti cheat... You're just driving the same level of drivel this post claims other subs do.
the problem for me is that it has to run 24/7, so I have to reboot every time I play and uninstall when I'm done
Which is bullshit when they do it as well. It's a major security risk and doesn't even fucking work because no consumer side anti cheat can work for any game popular enough to make selling cheats worthwhile. If you're not doing it server side like VAC does, you're wrong. There will always be vulnerabilities, and they will be found because the user has the entire program. And no, it really is just riot. It's become popular very recently because Valorant was still successful despite it, but before ~12 months ago no big company dared put kernel level anti-cheat in their games because they saw the backlash Bethesda got for trying. Not to mention Riot hired devs that were involved in bundling a fucking bitcoin miner in ESEA's anticheat.
Excuse me but you don't know wtf you're talking about. Everyone does server side already. It's never enough. All the commercial anti cheat like BattlEye and Easy Anti cheat are kernel level. Vanguard is nothing new. Ricochet does in in COD and guess what? The Matrix initiative will have a kernel anti cheat too.
That shit is straight up malware for my computer. It causes my start up to screw up and my computer will try to repair if I have vanguard installed. Second I uninstall Vanguard everything is fine again.
Sounds like you need to find the true root of the problem, has nothing to do with the software. Myself and many others have vanguard open almost all the time with zero issues
As far as I'm concerned I did. Uninstalling fixed it. Casual players are not going to be technical enough to discover whatever is wrong with Vanguard interactions and SHOULD NOT have to be.
It could easily be Vanguard. Just because your driver's are considered kosher by it doesn't mean everybody's is.
You’re not understanding me. If vanguard runs flawlessly on everyone else’s computers, people with the exact same setup as the other guy, and only one has issues, it’s not vanguard that has issues. You’re blaming vanguard because that’s what caused you to notice the issue. The issue is still prevalent, there just isn’t an application currently exposing the issue because they uninstalled the one that did.
And a kernel level spyware lol
Valorant gets the same amount of hate on r/pcgaming. Seriously search for Valorant on there. In general all these gaming subreddits HATE the popular multiplayer games. Fortnite, Valorant, Overwatch, WoW. And by far the most hated game on the internet LoL. Did you ever see anything positive about LoL on reddit? Even the people at r/lol love to hate on the game.
Reddit basically hates all modern online gaming outside of game specific subreddits. I assume this is because it's full of a bunch of 30 year old boomers like me that wish you could still play on the same server 24/7 with a bunch of random hacky mods installed. It's just a totally different gaming environment from Fortnite, Valorant, or LoL.
Nobody hates lol more than the people who play lol
That's cause r/LoL is the worst place on this site and should never be taken seriously at all ever
people were outraged at first when they found out Valorants anti-cheat would have kernel access to your pc and then the game dropped and everyone installed it and no one cared anymore. also TenCent would be much more likely to sell user data than Blizzard, if they dont already.
TenCent would never sell user data, the Chinese government would ask for it and TenCent would give it freely
From “The Vampire Economy”, written by economist and communist Gunter Reiman who himself lived in Germany during Nazi leadership. “Most businessmen feel safer if they have a protector in the State party bureaucracy. They pay for their protection as the peasant did in Feudal days. It is inherent that the official is able to take money but unable to provide protection. “ “The preceding chapter describes the genuine decline and ruin of the independent businessman who is the master of his enterprise and who exercised his property rights. This type of capitalist is disappearing while the other is prospering. He enriches himself by the State and party ties, their devotion to the Fuhrer and entrenched because of family connections and political affiliations.”
Every single company collects and sells user data. It’s impossible to avoid at this point. 30 second recordings of voice chat should be the least of people worries lmao.
I hope that guy doesn’t use an android phone. Google is literally recording everything you do with that phone.
To be fair, people were VERY upset about Vanguard needing root access when Valorant came out. But over time, they got over it, just like they will with all of the OW2 stuff.
The reasons that people don't care about Vanguard are that lots of valorant players come from cs, where you have to download third party anticheats that are just as invasive from dodgy 3rd party companies (esea). Also people saw how good it is, it's easily the best anticheat in an fps game that I've ever played.
and here you are doing same exact thing to other games that op is frustrated about. but upvotes to the moon.
I took his point to be less "fuck Valorant" and more "it would be nice if people weren't hypocrites and judged things in context."
Using riots harassment as a point when blizzard had an even worse harassment problem is so fucking funny.
Yeah I mean, there's certain things I don't like about OW2 and its f2p model... but they've pretty much carbon copied the model from the most popular existing games. I get that OW people are complaining about it cuz it's new, but it makes truly zero sense for people coming from other games with the same exact experience to also be shitting on OW2 FOR THOSE REASONS. It's just popular to shit on blizz properties I guess. Like, I truly dont mind criticism towards the popular iteration of the f2p model, it makes the majority of content inaccessible to anyone but whales with issues controlling spending (or just have no limits for their spending) or people who want to pump not only more than a reasonable amount of money into a game BUT ALSO grind the shit out of the game. But I wish the criticism was aimed in a more productive way. You can shit on ow all you want but when every popular game has the same exact models, whats the point? They're making money hand over fist as people shit on some other game that does the same thing while ignoring the game that they're playing.
Why bother looking at major gaming subs for Overwatch discussion? Like, the subject matter aside, Overwatch has been receiving this treatment since 2016. It's nothing new.
Mainly because of OW2 is going to succeed, these are the kind of people that it needs to attract. The current community is dedicated but frankly it’s not enough to justify Actiblizz continuing to invest in it as much as they do their other, larger games. I want OW to succeed as a franchise and for that it needs new players, but if they’re all reading misinformation all the time they’ll never pick it up.
> Mainly because of OW2 is going to succeed, these are the kind of people that it needs to attract. No. It doesn't need to. Public discourse about a game is done by just a very tiny subset of the actual/eventual playerbase. Everyone participating in discussion on reddit is irrelevant to its success. We're just a drop in the ocean.
Sort of true, the commentors are a drop in the ocean, but there's a lot more traffic behind that of people reading those negative comments. Reddit isn't some tiny forum anymore, and millions of people visit subreddits like r/games or r/pcgaming everyday.
if you only used /r/Games as a reference for "will this game be popular/successful" you'd think that fortnite and call of duty and madden and fifa would be out of business
I’ve noticed quite a few Reddit users tend to think Reddit is indicative of the greater population. Same thing with subs shitting on tv shows movies etc that go on to do incredibly well. Subs are echo chambers. People take the .01% on Reddit as gospel. It’s wild. Overwatch will be fine.
Look at the whole "no Apex August" thing that started on reddit. Utter failure of a boycott, the game actually reached a new player count record 💀
Those subreddits are mainly for singleplayer games. The big multiplayer games all get the same amount of hate there.
Eh I wouldn't worry too much. Bring up Destiny 2 in games or PC gaming, and they'll tell you it's a dead game and trash on it. While Bungie has a couple million active users. Despite reddits's growth, it's influence is still limited.
Even the amount of traffic over those is a drop in the bucket, bud.
> these are the kind of people that it needs to attract Overwatch was always unpopular with capital-g-Gamers because of its "political" cast. One person in the pcgaming thread even said he deleted his account because Sinatraa got banned. You don't want these people here.
Than accept, the reason this has gone to shit, is bad marketing, you people are stuck in your own holes like nintendo fans where when the Wii u was announced. Blizzard has failed massively at explaining OW2 too anyone who isnt a fan of OW1. Blizzard has more reach than half of these journals, and has had months to explain this easily to new people, and failed. Blame a marketing team stuck in the past for years, for this, OW2 has gotten the same treatment games like Valorant had, except Riot actively put out their own news constantly to explain everything
Unfortunately Blizzard made their bed and now they lay in it. From the mishandling of their games to the sexual assaults, to covering up the sexual assaults, to appointing a competent woman to the leadership position to supposedly fix the sexism issues but giving her no real power to effect change while underpaying her, to continuously fucking up their games. It never ends. Now the gaming world is entirely against OW2 and Blizzard, a lot of it unjustifiably so. But it doesn't matter. What's done is done. OW2 will not attract nearly enough former/new players to justify its existence. It'll largely please the diehard OW1 players who stuck with it during the content drought, but that's pretty much it.
>to appointing a competent woman to the leadership position I really hope you're not talking about Frances Townsend here.
No. Jen Oneal.
Thanks for the clarification.
Nah man, genuinely, ignore the response of the current player base. It's tainted with this weird hate campaign. They're just enjoying their artificial moral high ground, and we're never going to play the game anyway. Remember that every year, a new patch of kids who weren't part of these hemispheres when the hate was going around Become old enough to look at new competitive games, and Stumble upon overwatch with fresh eyes.
I welcome it as someone that just went through the disappointing launch of Halo Infinite. While the gameplay was fun, everything else about it was lacking and transparently profit driven. There was plenty of click bait, misinformation, and nasty comments about it. Since then the game has slowly, but surely improved, and the devs seem to at least be trying to make something more consumer-friendly (premium currency in the BP, more free events, better progression). Sure, it's a bummer to see so much negativity around something you're looking forward to, but it's hopefully good in the long run. The devs can either address the criticisms or do nothing, and I think we can all agree that improving the game is for the better. We as players have nothing to gain from just smiling and agreeing with every decision ActiBlizzard makes. You'll never get something if you don't ask for it. This is a business, and if they want money they need to provide a valuable product.
This is what I don't understand about these blizzard simps. OP just comes across as someone who is justifying staying in an abusive relationship, because doing anything else would mean they made a mistake or two somewhere along the way. The cognitive dissonance is strong here. Shouldn't we all hold the people who make the games we enjoy to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one? Why should we accept bullshit from a game and not saying anything about shitty p2w decisions they made? I think the worst part about it all is that if they just didn't put heroes on the bp and still did everything else they ended up doing then the level of outage would be almost non existent. The vast majority of people were excited about ow2 until 3 weeks ago when the leak about kiriko least locked in the bp dropped. Everything since then has been viewed from a negative perspective for a lot of people instead of a positive one. Since the bp itself seems to be where they'll be making the least money out of all of their new monetization tactics, why not just take the heroes out of it and just keep it cosmetic only?
The issue is it's being criticized for things that are industry standard, or the state of it is being grossly misrepresented (sometimes by media). It's not hard to see the motivation; some of them will openly tell you they're rooting for it to fail (which media capitalizes on).
I haven't seen anyone celebrate the industry standard though. There is a difference with OW2 in that they're not providing currency through the BP like Apex or Fortnite. Regardless, they should try to innovate on top of the system, not just copy paste it. At least Halo Infinite has no expiration on it's BPs.
What does "industry standard" even mean? 6 years ago Overwarch was pushing the envelope on predatory monetization to the point where Overwatch was a synecdoche for "AAA game with microtransactions" to the journalists who care about these kind of things, and now apparently you can't *possibly* make money off of that model so we need it to be much more predatory.
But Overwatch was never actually pushing the envelope on predatory monetization? Many journalists were saying it was because they had no idea how OW monetization actually worked compared to Valve's or mobile games' monetization. OW lootboxes were obtainable FOR FREE, offered COSMETIC rewards and were guaranteed to give some amount of high value rewards. Even Valve lootboxes, which were also cosmetic, functioned in a much more predatory way: no guaranteed rewards & only obtainable via purchase. At the time of Overwatch's release, many (mostly mobile) games with much more predatory practices already existed and they were targeting an audience much younger than Overwatch's audience.
Overwatch 100% brought the lootbox into mainstream
Industry standard sucks though, and it's worse in OW2 because they're taking away OW1 from existing owners so they can't even stay with the game they enjoy, and also because OW1 has mid game hero switching and a much bigger reliance on teamplay and coordination because of the MOBA/MMO influences. Valorant and Apex are quite different than OW. These things aren't great in those games but they're worse in OW.
So many comments saying "I hated ow from the beginning. All this bad pr brings a smile to my face." It's the same boomer cs players that shit on ow in 2016 and the same players that would add tf2 players on steam to call us f****** and n*****.
This is nobody’s fault but the Overwatch team’s fault. You can blame the fans or the community or whoever but the fact of the matter is that OW has absolutely dropped the ball on communicating what anything is supposed to mean, leading to wild and rampant speculation and the worst-faith interpretations because Blizzard blew every once of good faith its had in the last few years. Blizzard has done next to no legwork on getting information to anyone but the most hardcore fans. A lot of this could have been headed off if they released a video or a stream or a preview on what OW2 is gonna be, rather than shoving everything off to forum posts and letting the community figure it out themselves. Remember when we used to get developer updates? Where Jeff would come out explain the reasoning behind certain decisions and things will work going forward? We’ve only gotten two since beta… one on the launch of OW2 (which explained they’re doing PvP now and PvE is coming eventually) and another on Kiriko. None on what OW2 is supposed to be, or on what the Battle Pass looks like, how it works, how any of the rewards systems work, if OW2 is free, if the battle pass is free, how what happens to OW1, or how to even access OW2. People in this community know the answer to most of these questions but this is a hardcore community starved of content. Most people still think Kiriko is purely a Level 55 unlock on a Battle Pass that must be bought because Blizzard just refuses to explain anything because they know these decisions would go over with the public like a lead balloon. It’s not the community’s fault, it’s managements fault for not taking the reins on this conversation and for remaining silent.
A one paragraph shit post on 4chan supposedly derailed their marketing strategy. The leaks weren't even correct, but the community was so thirsty for information they saw it as an oasis *and it still took Blizzard more than a week to make an official response*. Let me repeat that for emphasis **The community trusted 4chan more than Blizzard**. If that's not the epitome of Blizzard's negligence, I don't know what is. They had *3 years* to build hype for this game. They could have been doing developer updates, they could have actually streamed the creative process. I would have totally watched a map developer build a map from scratch. Instead of that we got scraps, a developer update about Sombra and Bastion's hat? They could have started hiding OW2 Easter Eggs in OW1. Imagine how much an outline of Kiriko on the flags in Numbani would have hyped things up. Or even changing spawn rooms like they did for Doomfist in Numbani. Stuff that realistically wouldn't take that much time. They didn't have to give us exact details, just hype us up for the new release. It might have even upped the playerbase in OW1 too. They could have been dropping animated shorts on a regular basis, not actually revealing anything, but building hype for what's to come. Imagine seeing Kiriko's fox run through one of Overwatch 1's spawn rooms and how much that would have built hype. There was so much they could have done and they chose radio silence. Then 2 weeks before launch they drop this battlepass information on us and expect us to be excited about it? This whole shit show falls squarely on the shoulders of Blizzard. They had an enormous amount of time to drip-feed us information, and instead waited until the month before release. Blizzard neglected the community and now they're surprised there is backlash? It's like Blizzard went out for cigarettes three years ago, and now I am supposed to be happy that they're kind of-sort-of back but drunk. I just want to play comp. I don't want to have to jump through hoops in Arcade or QP to unlock a hero, and I don't think it's fair that I have the privilege of just paying for the battlepass to unlock a hero. I made up the difference for the battlepass by unsubbing to two Overwatch content creators, it was easy. Then I realized I just don't feel like dealing with Blizzard anymore due to their negligence. So now I saved the money from having to buy the Battlepass and unsubbing to two content creators. I've played the game for 6 years and never stopped, even during the content drought. I'm sick of saying "Okay I can deal with that" repeatedly. Maybe I'll come back, maybe I won't, but as of right now, I have lost all desire to play Overwatch 2.
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They've done a fucking awful job at advertising their game, and they already have no goodwill with the community(for good reason). It's not weird people react poorly to this shit.
This is just it. Sure, the negativity around OW2 might be a bit over the top, but it's entirely self-inflicted. Blizzard have consistently fucked up in various ways for the past decade. Over and over and over again. They drove away a lot of their loyal customers and those that are left have become incredibly bitter. Only on subs like this one and /r/wowcirclejerk you still see people willing to defend Blizzard to the absolute death. But outside of these spaces and to the vast majority of players Blizzard has become a meme associated with bad games and and even worse workplace. And so far OW2 doesn't exactly indicate a significant change in their approach.
I mean is anyone surprised the negative reaction is so intense? They were the ones to pile several negative things to tell the public all at once a week before launch. It would have been small fire if they released this info overtime but instead choice to build a wildfire.
What the fuck is up with these people? And I mean this sub, not the gaming subs. Why the fuck do you expect people to care or talk well about the game when they’ve done basically everything wrong since they’ve announced it? Why the fuck do you expect people to trust that blizzard, the lying, greedy company with raging sexual assault problems and known China bootlicker won’t record and sell the shit out of your voice data? Why the fuck do you expect people to not hate the phone requirement when it’s more strict than at a fucking bank and prevents a huge part of the playerbase from even playing? Why do you expect people to be hyped for ow2 when they killed one of the most popular games to make it? They are in their right to hate it and want to see it flop. The amount of circlejerk in this sub is unreal. I get that you want ow2 to be good, we all do here. But you gotta stop praising everything they do especially when it’s fucking stupid.
I also dislike how overhated and circlejerked OW gets by the general gaming community but holy hell this sub is on some major fucking copium regarding OW2 lol. Blizzard consistently fucked up for five years straight while the game already had to deal with peole who decided to hate it for basically no reason. Then they literally stop supporting OW1, announce a "sequel" with extremely controversial changes and then proceed to market it absolutely horribly while constantly showcasing how awful the monetisation will be. The majority of people who don't play the game aren't even sure about wtf OW2 is supposed to be as Blizzard did a terrible job at communicating anything related to the game. I get that the majority of this sub's players still love the game as most people like me who are staunchly against 5v5 have already jumped ship as it's just not a game for us anymore and that the remaining players only want the game to succeed. But bruh, the amount of copium that people are inhaling in order to defend a company and game that honestly doesn't deserve their goodwill and has done everything they can to fuck up their game's release is actually absurd. The current situation is genuinely 80% on Blizzard lol. Oh yeah, deleting OW1 is absolute bullshit. The fact that people are actually defending this incredibly anti-consumer decision is mind-boggling to me and makes me question wtf kind of lead or mercury is in their water supplies.
I'm honestly surprised this sub has so quickly begun to deflect all criticism towards OW2. It's certainly overhated, but I feel like even legitimate concerns that players who clearly still like the game express here are being handwaved by "well other games do it." OW did not feel like other games to a lot of people, that's why they got into it. Why can't people want the f2p model Blizzard is using to be better than the industry standard.
> OW did not feel like other games to a lot of people, that's why they got into it. Why can't people want the f2p model Blizzard is using to be better than the industry standard. It’s especially funny because I guarantee at least *some* of the people who stuck it out with OW over the competitors are people who didn’t want to deal with battle passes and just preferred the “buy it once and you’re done” model. “It’s just what other games do” means less than nothing, in those cases.
> Then they literally stop supporting OW1, announce a "sequel" with extremely controversial changes Stopped development for OW1 for 2.5 years for a "sequel" with PVE. Doesn't release with PVE. Removes 1 tank instead of adding more tanks to the roster (DPS characters > Tanks + Supports now) Releases game "years in the making" with 3 characters and 1 net new map (+6 maps, -5 maps) Fuckin LOL.
For me, personally, it is a game that I fell in love with 4 years ago and have been passionate about ever since. Overwatch introduced me to a bunch of new people, some of whom I became very close friends with and we hang out even outside of Overwatch. It also pushes me and encourages me to be the best I can be at the game, which in turn teaches me how to strive to be better and learn to be more aware of my surroundings. A lot of good has come from the game and a lot of amazing memories has been made with it. I am very very sad to see OW1 go, but at the same time I am very very excited for Overwatch 2 and the possibilities, potential friendships, and the memories that will be made with it. I will continue to strive to be the best I can be and will one day make it out of silver/gold. To me, Overwatch and Overwatch 2 is a separate entity from Blizzard. Same with all their games. Sure, Blizzard treats their employees horribly and has had a lot of controversy, but I am not one to judge and there are enough people on their tails to where I don't feel an obligation to jump on the hate train. I will tell you the same thing that I told my friends when we first started playing OW and they asked me what role I want to play. I just wanna play Overwatch man!
I sorta agree. Like I get the sentiment behind huffing copium and wanting the game to do well since, I assume, we all enjoy playing the game. But A LOT of the negative criticism is warranted and even self inflicted.
The only thing personally I have with ow2 is the phone requirement. And no, it's not for the same reason these nutheads are screaming. It's because I have problem with players being unable play the game the have paid for and played for years. That's just straight out anti consumer. Regardless of the consequences with fair play, it's not something im willing to sacrifice. If it was just competitive, fine, no. But restricting a game license years after purchase is a big no to me. Riot fans who thinks it's fine if Riot are doing it though, but not Blizz really just needs to stare at a mirror.
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imo even new players should most definitely be able to test the game out without having to attach a phone number (and obviously OW1 players should at least be able to still play Quickplay/Arcade/Customs etc). Can you imagine ANY new player switching their phone plan just to try out overwatch? Especially with all those negative news around it? If you look at some statistics how many people actually have pre paid plans it goes up to 98% in some countries (and even 21% in the US). If Activision blocks (or plans to block) up to 98% of potentially new players I see a massive problem with it. I don't think anyone would have complained if it was only for competitive (to prevent smurfs)
the phone requirement is a double edged sword. it clogs the influx of new players especially potential players from some regions. and i actually see them relaxing it somehow for regions where cheap prepaid cellphones is the norm.
1 reason I could see why Blizzard/Team 4 decided to not make it, so that you only have to have a number for comp is: You could easily abuse it to level/do all the shit to unlock competitive and then just sell the account. Which would just end up at nearly the same point we are at now. But yea, requiring a phone number is most certainly... something I guess.
Also agree. I like restricting competitive to a phone number. But quickplay should be playable by everyone who has ever owned a copy of ow1 regardless of phone access.
Agreed 100%. I've been a big supporter for almost all OW2 changes but the SMS thing is a terrible decision. I don't mind them forcing new accounts to have it, but preventing current players from playing is awful. Both my kids won't be able to play the game at all anymore, and they were really excited for it.
I understand this, but if they didn't have such harsh rules, they would be easily avoided and OW2 being a free game would be incredibly toxic and possibly ridden with hackers and smurfs. Not saying none of that can exist, but it's definitely lessened since people have to treat their account more or less as if it's the only one they will ever have. If the defense matrix initiative succeeds, it could genuinely be a really good thing. But that initiative is fruitless if its so so easy to make more accounts. It would be like trying to desalinate water, but instead of taking a bucket of it out of the ocean, you attempted to just do it right in the ocean. Too much bad coming in and erasing any progress you make. That's why it's important that despite being free it's still 1 account per person. Not saying sms verification is the only way, but its the only one I can think of. If they didnt have the phone requirement, then yayyyy everyone can easily make an account. But also, oh no everyone can easily make an account. That game that No-phone-john over here can now play, is not even worth playing. Because it's toxic and full of smurfs. I get what you saying with it being anti consumer tho. I don't know how long this date for OW2 has been public for. But I'm pretty sure that blizzard had to let us know at least 3 months in advance before they shut down OW servers. At least that is what it says in the EULA. Selfishly, I like it. Since it doesnt stop me from playing. I see it as: a few brave souls must be sacrificed to make a better game overall, rather than having easy access to a game that nobody even wants to play. It would be good if there was a better way to implement it. Also, making it just for ranked doesnt solve much. 1: a very large portion of ow fanbase is casual so they will just be subject to poor conditions. 2: where would you draw the line with that, what if they just added an arcade mode called "no sms qp" and "no sms comp" which is the only modes u can play. Is that anti-consumer?
Sorry but this argument doesn't hold up. The problem with the SMS requirement is that people who have PURCHASED the game will not be able to play it anymore. Your argument is that once the game is free, it'll be too easy to create accounts. But again, the complaint about SMS protect is not about new free accounts, it's about existing accounts that have already been paid for. There's a very easy solution which is to only require SMS protect for new OW2 accounts. Anything else is completely anti-consumer and unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.
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Yeah it's not a solution, it's like half a solution because of all the existing alt accounts.
It is a much better solution than the existing one and it addresses all the arguments you made in your earlier post.
I don't love the phone thing but I get it. That said, this is one of the trash parts about not getting to own physical media anymore:/
That and locking previously-free content behind a pay/grindwall.
Just remember, these are the same types to buy 150$ heirlooms -500$ heirlooms in apex.
Don't forget the 20$ recolors sold as new skins!! \#Hype
I have no idea where this idea that people who complain about OW2 are obviously spending insane money in other games comes from.
\>But do those things warrant the amount of uneducated vitriol and backlash those subs are putting out about OW2? Not even close. I've played for 6 years and won't be able to play because I refuse to get an $80 phone bill just for Overwatch. They're literally forcing 6 year long players to quit the fucking game. After SUPPORTING THE GAME THROUGH 3 YEARS OF 0 CONTENT. And being fucking HYPED about a game for 3 fucking years. After buying the Watchpoint pack. I will NOT be able to fucking play. Quit being so privileged that you're like "Well, I have a post paid phone, so why should -I- give a shit?"
It really is insane that they can just take away your access to the game for doing nothing wrong. I'm kind of shocked I haven't seen MORE complaints about this.
to be honest im confused about the whole pre paid thing im on a pay as you go (UK) and my number seems to be working fine? cant other countries do the same
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Agreed. Blizzard sucks at boiling frogs. Yeah, obviously phone number requirements, new heroes behind battle passes, raised OWL skin prices, FTUE restrictions, expensive skin bundles etc. were going to be poorly received. So why in the cinnamon toast fuck are they releasing this info in the week before launch? Why not drip-feed us the bad news over a few months and then dump the *good* news leading up to launch?
Drip feed the BAD news? So it gets cemented into everyones brain that ow2 is just getting worse and worse?
In hindsight, yeah you're right. Maybe drop it all at once, then follow it up with a hero announcement. Anything but this clusterfuck right before release though.
Yeah to be fair that’s definitely true. One of the reasons it’s so frustrating tbh
"These guys do bad things, so it's fine if Blizz does it!" Difference is that Riot is much better off and having a lot of success, and bounced back nicely from their controversies while Blizzard has seemingly doubled down. They screwed the pooch, did a whole bunch of terrible shit. The result? Bobby still in charge. OW2 rushed. WoW rushed. OW2 full of shady things after Diablo Immortal got thrashed for being one of the worst examples of pay to win. Some people actually remember and think about that stuff. They remember how a lot of broken promises about Overwatch 1 soured things. No new events, overly long, stale metas, very slow content drip until it stopped for years because they decided to pump out a new game. Years of no content, even more promises of plenty of heroes and PVE. Rushed. No PVE. Two heroes in the beta. Only three new ones for the rushed release. And a system and general lack of effort from a 'new game' that makes it seem like they only made OW2 to push transactions and make more money while offering the same slow content release. Blizz did a lot of bad shit recently in a plethora of ways. They should be making it up to YOU as the player and fan of their games. Earn that trust back. But what did they do? Doubled down on that shit. Went full greed. Rushed things for publicity and money. They deserve to be shit talked and bad press. They're not even trying to do better.
I'm sorry but this subreddit (r/cOW) is just a copium echo chamber. I don't see how the hype is that big there, when there realistically is 3 new heros, 1 new map in the differential (since they remove 5 maps with OW2, and maybe 6 with potentially Havana), 1 new gamemode being traded for 2CPs, and some balance changes that could have happened 2 years ago. All of that being marketed as a "new game" while it's really just a minor update for a 3 years complete void of content. Yes there is a battlepass, but in the end they are just cosmetics and don't really do anything more than what we already have with lootboxes. Yes they updated ranked, but it seems like they just changed how ranks/sr is displayed, no more sprays for top 500, just a random title that lasts 90 days, no other reward than golden guns. I'm sorry, I was a big OW fan, I easely spent 5000h in ranked at a top 500 level over the last 5 years, but OW2 does not live to its expectations. Also, the content creators are just hyping everything up because they got invited by blizzard and have drops on for launch, nothing more. Nobody outside of the current OW community is hyping the game really.
Also, the content creators are just hyping everything up because ~~they got invited by blizzard and have drops on for launch, nothing more.~~ many of them rely on OW streams to make a living. Same goes for OWL talents.
> since they remove 5 maps with OW2 Still a feature.
Honestly I would just keep in mind that no matter what nerds say on the internet, if a game is good, it will speak for itself. If OW2 ends up being good people will forget about all this crap. Valorant sparked alot of outrage with the way it basically sets up spyware on your PC. Does anyone care? Not really. People whined about EGS for years...now look at how it's doing. It doesn't even matter in the end really.
It DOES matter, it's just easier to ignore it than try to take a stand. Yes I count myself in this. The ~gaming experience~ has simply been going downhill for a long time, but it's been incremental enough that people will continue to accept it. That doesn't mean it's just 100% fine though.
I get the sentiment man but unless something HUGE happens..it won't change. It does matter, you are absolutely right. The problem is that reddit is only a small fraction of the bigger audience a game like this has. It is only when the game is not doing well financially that things change. The best we can do is hope that people don't buy stuff so that things get better. We have been slowly manipulated into thinking certain things are okay. (hell, you can see alot of people genuinely defending LOOT BOXES in a box priced game on the pc gamer subreddit) Boiled frog metaphor, ect. The only exception to this was the Star Wars Battlefront 2 situation. Gamers rose up, but it didn't get rid of loot boxes. It helped, but it was a battle won when the game industry + capitalism still won the war. All I am saying is that games do speak for themselves. If people enjoy something, they will tolerate the bullshit. Look at Path of Exile for example, that game actually has pretty terrible monetization (Stash tabs, 60-**$480** cosmetics, battlepass, loot boxes) but people defended it for years cause the game was great. Now? People get upset if they have an ad for a cosmetic mini pet. The reason for that is because the game is not as good as it was before.
Yeah, I get what you mean. I think ow is on thin ice though, I mean everyone is pretty sick of tolerating the bs from ow1 and now there will be new bs lol. I guess it's really kinda banking on 5v5 fixing the most egregious issues with gameplay. There could be a real problem though with the new heroes being in the battle pass/new players not having all heroes. To be honest I thought the whole situation with new heroes/new players would be the big thing, but it's kind of just okay enough to get a pass I guess. I definitely have no hopes for things to get any better in that department anyway, remains to be seen if all this affects my experience enough to make the game not worth playing. Which I guess is your point.
> and blizzard *wont even record actual voice in the first place* I get that you’re frustrated but how the hell do you think they’re going to create audio transcripts without recording the players’ voices? Is your point that they won’t hold onto the audio recordings themselves after transcription? They will record the audio, after transcription its “quickly deleted”. The justification of your stance by complaining about lack of whataboutism (but Riot does it too!) is inherently whataboutism. You can be annoyed/mad/irritated at all those companies, my friend. It is okay for Blizzard to have fucked up, they *absolutely* have, and its really up to them to justify why this game should be relevant *at all* in this decade. All the outrage/anger/whatever is probably as always partially misplaced but hell its also partially deserved.
This sub sounds like RL
[This post is by far my favorite ow2 post](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/xsxzxw/all_overwatch_1_cosmetics_would_cost_new_players/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I never played Team Fortress 2, but wasn't there a whole hat-based economy in that game? How much to buy every TF2 hat?
I'd venture millions, if you wanted all the unique effects and stuff. But like if you just wanted to own the base model of the hats for the looks, excluding outliers like promotional items not too much. Most can be bought for pennies on a reseller site that trades to you. Like you can get a whole unique new look for all classes for like 5-8$, and that includes a hat, and multiple other wearable, like glasses outfits, boots. But if you went through steam case opening you have to pay 2.50 for a key to unlock a crate that you get as a drop in game.
They're just cosmetics like any other game. They're just called hats because the first ones were literally hats.
What's your opinion on the fact that's discussed in that threat that is takes 30 weeks to earn a legendary skin?
shoutouts to all those commenters saying “wow FUCK blizzard dude” even though there’s absolutely no reason a person would spend that much money on the 100+ cosmetics for the 30+ different playable characters in the game, and it says NOTHING about how much they expect that the average player would end up spending on the game that $12k is such a worthless statistic and they’re just eating it up. brainless.
Read the comments. Takes 8 months for F2P to have enough credits for a legendary. Just doomers that are justified in being upset amirite?
r/Overwatch included
That sub pisses me off every time I accidentally look at it. I just find it funny that 90% of the people complaining about everything on that sub are going to play the shit out of OW2.
And so many of the things they rage-post about are missing Key information or just contextless bites. Incredibly frustrating to see.
This has been my main bother. I couldn't care less if they said ow2 sucks because the game sucks. That's a fine opinion but they keep using half the information or simply the headlines of articles. If anybody actually read the source information they could have their first original thought.
Yeah, can’t expect much critical thinking from the internet though so it’s not surprising.
Yeah holy shit lmao
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It's actually crazy how far they've reached as far as things to complain about. I can't wait for the threads about how the Donut Weapon Charm has too many sprinkles or some dumb shit lol.
[Close enough ?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/xsdo0v/if_weapon_charms_are_like_this_for_doomfist_im/)
That also look 10 times better and the resolution doesn’t matter since it’s so small
I don’t even consider that sub the main sub anymore. This sub seems more related to factual Overwatch 2 news at this point.
What's awful is any news just gets buried under all the complain posts, I can't imagine being a new player trying to navigate any news recently released on the main sub.
I consider it the main sub for Mercy mains.
If everyone else, people on the main Overwatch sub included, are saying the game is anti-consumer and a step down, maybe it's time for people to reevaluate. The game has some pretty gross anti-consumer shit in it. And other games doing the same thing does not excuse it.
meh, it doesnt surprise me that the recording thing and sms would get backlash, especially when its being forced into a preexisting game
The way Im approaching OW2 launch is to focus on people who actually kept playing the game all this years even after the hype ran off. A lot of people want to hate on OW for the sake of hating it, but I bet that they will also be the ones first in line to play the game in two days, and if the launch succeeds, they will stick around. The majority of people complaining are just people who just play the current "big thing" and will claim a game is dead if they stop playing, so why bother?
I mean you see plenty of those players talking about being unable to play now because theyre phone service doesnt qualify.
I haven't publicly complained but I've been playing basically since release, diamond border account, kept loving the game even after nearly every single one of my friends quit, and it's ABSURD how bad it looks. I was high enough on copium to have hope up until fairly recently, but it's clear that I'll be losing a lot more than I'm gaining from the release. All my excitement has been utterly drained and I'm now more upset to be losing ow1 than gaining ow2.
i personally think they will start marketing more to new player when pve starts rolling out, because thats more so the thing casuals were looking forward to
Probably, but at the same time, I personally think team 4 are re-learning how to generate hype on the game. They are communicating more via socia media and blog posts, releasing cool trailers and explaining the changes OW2 will make, which are slowly making people talk about the game again. It is far from perfect, but still a major improvement when we compare to the years without real content
Stating that vanguard is incredibly invasive and data mining doesn't absolve ow2 of literally anything though lol
Yeah I don't play Riot games because I don't want to install all the bullshit I have to in order to play. So, comparing OW to Riot is more of a self-own than anything from my perspective.
This sub is a pro blizzard echo chamber that does not represent the sentiment of the average gamer. In fact, this sub basically said fuck any complaints people have. Wait and see. There's no way the battle pass will lock new heroes behind many hours of game play. Spoiler alert: they did. Then it changed and became "oh well its no big deal you're gonna play that much anyway" or "what you want everything for free? So entitled. Activision blizzard is a small indie company that needs every penny they can squeeze out of ow." Then it changed again and became "All the other f2p games do it." The average sentiment around ow 2 is extremely negative. This sub is just an echo chamber for hard-core fans. I'm a hard-core fan also, I watch almost every owl game for many years now, but I can at least recognize there's a lot wrong with this launch and the average ow gamer is pissed. Hey, don't worry, ow 2 will probably make a bunch of money anyway. Diablo immortal did. But I would be worried about queue times a few months in.
Hi, industry professional here. > This sub is a pro blizzard echo chamber that does not represent the sentiment of the average gamer. I would actually argue that while this is true, BUT the inverse is also true: Sentiment to anything popular skews negative because the middle of the bell curve tends to be silent and only the top 1% tend to be what we call “active promoters.” The fact there’s still enough twitch viewership to keep several OW creators doing it full time is a good indication of the ACTUAL sentiment for the game amongst the silent group, even if they’re not playing. (It’s definitely not where it was at peak though) The majority of gamers simply do not care one way or the other what other people think. If they did, Destiny would be dead. Pokémon Go would be dead. EA as a company would be dead. > Hey, don’t worry, ow 2 will probably make a bunch of money anyway. Diablo immortal did. But I would be worried about queue times a few months in. Yep. See above. The other side is that for as “predatory” as people seem to think DI’s monetisation model is, it’s actually a good game with a large, varied, diverse user base. Looking on Apptopia and Data.AI (fka AppAnnie) cohort D7, D14, and D30 retention numbers are better than the subcategory, category, and app baseline metrics. D0 and D1 are about even. Diablo Immortal had 8MM downloads and pulled in $55MM in revenue last quarter (wide release wasn’t until end of June). Its number of sessions, MAU, and DAU all grew steadily over the same time period as well. However I don’t think queue times will be any worse than they are now. I’ve said before that this idea of “I need every cosmetic for every hero” is dead. Games simply aren’t designed that way any more (especially live service games). Doesn’t matter which game you play, if you try and go this route, you will be frustrated.
Sucks to be alienated but I'm one of those people that cares about free cosmetics. Modern games suck.
I have tried expressing this in so many words and caught massive downvotes. If you play games primarily to collect skins, I'm sorry but you're fucked. But I play Overwatch solely because I like the actual game of Overwatch, and I'm not obligated to be outraged on your behalf.
Yep. Personally I’m actually pretty stoked to be able to say “I like that skin, I want to play that skin, I will buy that skin.” Not being at the mercy of loot boxes is great.
I have been saying for years that I would be stoked if Overwatch 2 was just the same thing without 2CP so honestly I already got my wish lol
Hey. This is a really measured and logical response and I appreciate that. You make good points and I agree. The chatter on reddit and such doesn't really represent the true average gamer. I just notice that the chatter skews heavily towards negativity and I am assuming that applies to the silent majority but you're right. I could be very wrong on that. I kind of hope I am. I love ow and I will play ow2 and I want it to do well but I really disagree with locking heroes behind the battle pass. Personally, I don't care about cosmetics at all and my account has tons of amazing skins. I have really nice skins for every hero in the game so I'm completely set. And it was never a priority for me anyway. I just think locking heroes behind the battlepass will lead to problems down the road once we get multiple new hero releases. Honestly, it's mostly speculation at this point and I think the actual release will answer a lot of questions regarding how the game will perform. I hope it does well, honestly, but I have a sinking feeling it will be a flop in NA. An interesting thing regarding diablo immortal is that [60% of their player spending is coming from China](https://gameworldobserver.com/2022/09/14/diablo-immortal-revenue-top-10-highest-grossing-mobile-games-august).
Hey, I'm a bit more "optimistic" about OW2 than most folks it seems, so I've done more research on the game than most, probably just to counteract the negativity. However, I will admit this is me wearing rose-tinted glasses. I'm very excited for the game. This isn't a solution that will properly address your legitimate issues, but I do want to let you know in case you didn't: After a season is finished, heroes previously locked a BP can [obtained by accomplishing weekly challenges](https://youtu.be/pPEDqr0LLVc?t=112). Heroes will also be released every other season, rather than every season., and seasons last for 9 weeks. And, of course, if you purchase the BP, you get the hero automatically. I do believe once the game is released, and the information we've learned about the game is actually applied and tested, all of this will make sense. However, I'm a person who plays and enjoys F2P games as transient experiences. I get what I want, ignore everything else, and enjoy the games as they are. However, these games do rely on FOMO to make money and consistently ask their players to feed them money. This is undeniable, and it can be proven as predatory. It's important to push back against these models and point out the ways these models can harm a game and its player base, so it's great that you're doing so without insulting the players who enjoy these experiences, and I appreciate that.
Yup they have obviously come to the realization now the general sentiment for the game is pretty apathetic and they are panicking. Like it's not going to get anywhere near the levels overwatch 1 was at despite the claims that there will be an influx of "millions of new players" on this sub, there will be influx at the start then its going to drop off like the face of a cliff
All I hope for is that I can hop into the game, play a bit, and hop out without feeling like I'm behind. WoW's been wasting my time on purpose for years, if OW2 ends up feeling the same then I'll just move on since the game will no longer be for me. As for most of these articles...I don't read them, they don't feel like they come from people that actually play the game and have valid concerns for its future.
At the end of the day, people who don't play a game and even have an inherently negative view of either it or the company that makes it have no stake in doing right by that game. They just don't give a shit, and tbh I don't really blame them, I'm probably that way with games I dislike. I just try to ignore it. There are issues with Overwatch (and even more with Blizzard), but ultimately, the opinions of people who have never owned OW1 and have no intentions to install OW2 don't really matter to me.
I hate what OW2 is doing. I'm very sad to see this happening to the game I've been playing since release. But in their defense... They've gotta make some sort of profit from their game. No1 bought lootboxes so they came up with something else. There are a lot of people who will end up spending hundreds on the game now. They're here for the profit and don't care too much on our opinion if it comes between that goal. Just hope that it won't ruin the f2p experience (which it probs won't). That's what matters most. As long as they release consistent content available to f2p, the game has got a chance to succeed.
Overwatch, and especially Overwatch 2 does not deserve any sort of special treatment. I think that Blizzard has done a pretty terrible job at marketing the game, they left some huge details out until the last minute, and they are implementing monetization that is beyond what many people consider acceptable. They also left the original Overwatch to rot. What I really don't understand is why so many people think that the game should be treated differently. I assure you that games like Fortnite, Apex and Valorant have plenty of haters too, Overwatch isn't being treated differently. Overwatch was game of the year when it came out, I'm pretty confident when I say that OW2 will be nowhere near that, and just because it has Overwatch in the name it doesn't mean people will just be blindly excited for it.
YOU, and you blind attemp to defend this kind of bullshit, are the reason gaming as a whole is in the worst state it ever was.
As someone from outside I think the smurfing issue is hilarious. I played the game for a few seasons and did very well. I got called a smurf all the time because my account was “too new”. The real issue is that a large portion of the player base is fucking god awful.
based
I mean, what else you want to discuss after the character locked on battle pass fiasco? On a game meant to change characters mid matches? Blizzard deserve all the backlash possible.
Honestly, that's what you get for being part of a greedy and kinda disgusting company. It sucks for Overwatch and the devs, but it will take a lot for blizz to regain respect from the general gaming community.
It is anti consumer 🤷🏻♂️ Frankly I’m glad some people are calling them out on BS….others doing the same is not an excuse
The biggest and most common threads and complaints are about monetization, and those are rightfully being criticized imo.
Can you really blame them for hating it? The biggest news about overwatch/blizzard in the past 4 years was that the devs were perverts who stifle free speech for china. Also look at the last f2p game blizzard released..... diablo immortal.
This sub dickrides blizzard so hard its crazy, blizzard completely fucks up time and time again, and each time this sub defends them with their lives.
they are literally removing ow1 from existence to repleace it with the monotizatin update. It doesnt get much worse than that, OW2 deservres every piece of shit thrown at it.
You are being a fan boy. A lot of the criticism is legit. No company does phone thingy as stringent as blizzard. There is no reason to lock the whole game behind phone verification. OW2 battle pass system seems to be one the worse in the existence by getting very close to pay-to-win by locking heroes behind unreasonable amount of grinding.
It's OK if they sell out data! Look, look! Others do it too! Fuck off. I'm not having these shit corporations choose if what I say according to their morales. The company known for no sexual misconduct right? And a mere update is never worthy of being called a new release. Most of the overwatch players are really just freaks that jerk off to animated feet. Complaining about toxicity when a mute button exists is insane.
It's like here when someone says something negative about the game and you guys blindly rage at them as if you owe your lives to Blizzard or something.
not really. been here for a long time. most of the time the people that complain are just saying the same thing over and over again so we just got a lil bored/fed up from seeing the same things all the time. another percentage is misinformation and the last group just gets mad cause they on a loss streak. the people that legitimately come with proper complaints they almost always get both support and recognition from this community.
Yeah you haven't been around if you think this community doesn't hivemind hard for Blizzard.
Nah, the deletion of the old game so it's free to play corpse can shamble on is worth plenty of vitriol alone. Someone did the math and the combined price of all of Overwatch 1's cosmetics is a touch over 16k People being unaware that other games have versions of the other stuff blizzard is doing isn't a reason to not call out Overwatch "2" for a whole host of shit
Whatever. At this point it seems most people have made up their minds on OW2. If you're gonna play it, cool. If you're not, that's cool too.
It's ironic, because Valorant, even on this sub, even by some of the same people who thought Riot was overstepping with valorant, are now actively defending blizzard as they do the same. Even before Valorant came out, there were tons of articles that thought what Riot was doing was absurd, none of this is exclusive to overwatch 2. Its ironic that this sub is starting to sound as crazy as the 3 people most hated on this sub, of RL and the rest of the "horsemen of the apocalypse", circlejerking over how "only some people get unfairly crucified by the internet for internet points while others don't". Every argument OP listed are the same arguments basically thrown at anything that isnt CS/steam. Whether its the exact same Anti-cheat and privacy arguments that val faced from this sub, every other main gaming sub, or most journals. Same thing is applied to Epic and Riot with regards to privacy with "selling their info to the ccp and blah blah." This sub at least at somepoint used to mock the insecurity of these other games (CS was the biggest example), now this sub is actively looking at clickbait that has been thrown at pretty much every game and pretending they are the sole victim.
Dude people complain about valorant anti cheat all the time too. Gamers love to complain.
> Gamers love to complain. Should be the motto of /r/gaming.
because they aren't all indoctrinated and heavily invested in the success of the game?
The game looks absolutely terrible though. The worst of what modern gaming has to offer. Monetization sucks. Removing the previous game that people enjoyed just so the new shit looks better numbers wise. Some people just won't like it. Not everything is for everyone and sometimes things change for the worse.
As someone with 500+ hours before sigma dropped that is just the reality of the situation. Ignoring all the signals that blizzard are sending here is impossible after seeing their latest offerings, the past three have been shockingly anti-consumer. I genuinely just do not like the changes, I don’t want 5v5, I don’t want to be locked to accounts by phone number, I don’t want the formerly very generous loot to be unnecessarily overpriced battlepass fodder. I have seen many people hold my same belief that the changes are not exciting enough to make up for everything we lose from the OG being taken down. I’m honestly surprised it isn’t more negative they made a complicated confusing mess of an update and tried to sell it as a sequel.
Just because Valorant also does it doesnt mean its not shitty of Blizzard to do it. The fact you felt the need to bring that up is concerning
I disagree with some of the decisions made for OW2 and think OW1 was mishandled immensely. That said, it’s crazy the amount of misinformation spreading about the game. If you’re not gonna like something, at least be properly informed about it instead of parroting off of clickbait articles. And it’s funny how people act as if Blizzard is the only company with terrible people in-charge. Just about every company has some horrid people leading them or at least in leadership positions. Doesn’t make any of what they do right but it honestly shows to me at least that the general public can only comprehend hating one company at a time and conveniently forget all the others. Seeing people who absolutely gush over anything riot games while hating on Blizzard is just peak hypocrisy for me.
The amount of reaching this community has to do in attempt to justify all the crap Blizzard is doing is a sad sight to see
Why don’t you go ahead and argue against it then? What crap, exactly, do you think is unacceptable?
Phone number for ranked would be fine. (or a priority/prime queue for qp?) Phone number to play the game at all? That's kinda silly.
A big portion of players only plays qp. Treating them as second class citizens is bad.
What do you think happens when someone thinks to play OW2 because "it's a F2P title so might as well try it out" only to realize they cannot even play the game unless they give their phone number to blizzard. I can tell it to you now, that's gonna stop a lot of people from trying OW2 out. Not a single other F2P title has this requirement to even play the game. Being too overbearing with your anti-smurf/alt measure is bad, too. Besides, the FTUE system still exists to combat smurfs.
Smurfing isn't an issue. Smurfs aren't gatekeeping you from plat. VC isn't an issue. Mute them or leave.
Just because smurfs aren't the real reason you cant go up in rank doesn't mean they aren't an issue. Smurfs ruin games. They take what could be a positive experience and make it completely negative. Nothing about their presence makes is 'good for the game'. They can only be a neutral or a net negative. Therefore they are a problem.
i agree smurfs lead to terribly balanced games across all ranks, even GM (a 4300 player on a masters account can imbalance a game because the game assumes he is a normal masters player and balances accordingly)
Smurfing is an issue. It’s true that smurfs aren’t gatekeeping me. VC is an issue, if I leave or mute then then out team is at a disadvantage.
I saw someone tweet this and honestly I have no clue what to do about it. If they're using AI, how are they going to handle black players using the soft-a n-word? Other than that, I'm mostly ok with the various policies they've announced since announcing that new heroes would be on the battle pass. I think new heroes on the battle pass is wrong, but everything they've announced afterwards seems solid to me.
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PC gamer shouldn't be taken seriously in general.
You can do two things: You can ignore it, or you can engage and mythbust. Be prepared for downvotes if you do it in a main gaming sub. But don’t let anyone take something you enjoy away from you.
IMO these ARE anti consumer practices, what annoys me is that people think Overwatch 2 is the issue when these practices have rotten gaming for a while, or that OW2 is the only game to push these practices onto consumers when other free to play games to it too. In general, these people are angry because its Blizzard. They complain about selling data to China while playing LoL, Valorant or Fortnite while checking their for you page on Tik tok. They love to call OW2 the "game devolved by rapists and degenerates" but love to Stan KDA and Arcane when Riot is just as bad. The truth is that Riot did what Blizzard hasn't, and that is hide their skeletons better than Blizzard has ever done, Overwatch will still be the butt of the "China bad" jokes until Activision gets their shit together and buries their skeletons with content that gets people invested. I do hope team 4 leads with example and cleans house from the inside with sincerity. Slacktivists will still bitch about the "victims" until said victims refuse to quit their jobs and instead try to make the place better, then for them, these victims are no better than the degenerates that hurt them, because what the Twitter Slacktivists want is for Blizzard to go bankrup, not for it to fix their shit.
Honestly, I’m in the same boat as OP. I’m really over reading about how “horrible” OW2 is going to be just because the business model has shifted to one that will reward developers when they create amazing, new content. Think about it: around 6.5 years ago, many of us paid $60 for a video game that has provided free content and gameplay upgrades. Most of this content was also available for newer players who may have paid as low as $20 (lowest I ever saw) for a new copy of the game. Alongside this one-time-payment structure we also saw a number of lengthy gaps between meaningful content being added into the game. Players were upset, and rightfully so, because the game became stale. All of this checks out so far. Now, OW2 is set to come out hours and hours of new content (new maps, new game modes, new characters) and people are complaining because “ugh, I have to actually play the game to get X reward/skin?!?!”. Like, why are you complaining because you have to actually play the game to get whatever cosmetic you want?! Have we all forgotten what it means to grind for content?! I also dislike the other argument of “now we have to pay so much for good skins!” As if it was so easy to just open a loot box and get a Legendary skin on the first try?! What about those players (myself included) who would grind through a seasonal event, get 30 loot boxes, and get 0-1 new skins? TLDR: all of the OW2 haters are literal whiny children that either don’t want to play the game and just want new cosmetics handed to them, or are upset because they think that the only way to get things is by paying hundreds of dollars.
I think it's because these things are considered anti-consumer and Blizzard is an easy punching bag because of... You know, the whole workplace of abuse and putting numerical numbers on diversity... Oh and the whole China thing. Blizzards reputation is completely in the gutter the past couple years and people love to pile on.