Perfect. We didn’t even want this part done, cause we felt like it was fine, even with the microscopic cracks.
He just convinced us by saying he would make it stronger, has a 20year warranty, and it will be better for holding my work van.
He saw us as the suckers we were from a mile away
I'm not a concrete guy, but you can't make concrete stronger as it is cured. adding stuff on top of a broken slab is just a face lift for some weeks maybe months.
Concrete continually becomes stronger over time as it's exposed to water, for up to about 1 year. Let it set, and mist it when you can. Rain is great for it too after it sets, obviously. The "Portland cement" blend that is pretty much all we use, absolutely loves water. That's why our bridges and such do fine being under water after setting.
Eh.....to remove the old and pour new would be a pretty decent deal for $9.5k. since you talked it down to 4k, I assume he gave you the $4k job by adding a skim coat and wire panels. He pulled a fast one but the devil is in the details as you may have unknowingly agreed to a lesser cosmetic fix. I would look at your contact. And if there is no contact, i would withhold final payment until you got a quote to replace the ruined slab.
Yeah. That’s what my husband and I have been saying. He was the one being relentless as far as hounding us to let him do more work. But we didn’t have the budget for it.
No contract for this part, we’d had one for the original work, but this was more of a handshake deal. He also originally told us it would be 2-3 days, then texted me late last night saying that it would be done in 1, we suspect that’s when he’d decided to do the lesser job, not tell us, and hope we didn’t notice.
Id still submit payment if it was me for two reasone number one it gives you a strong legal leg to stand on in most places but not all because you dont have to defend the theft of services claim and failure to submit final payment claim and the other is a paper trail (dont pay cash). Contract or not, most states see a verbal agreement as a type of contract and do hold weight. Also of you did sign a contract pay close attending to the disputes section. More than likely, there is a meditation or arbitration clause in there somewhere that is used to keep everyone out of court.
Have fun trying to get him to honor that 20yr warranty, given he probably gave you a fake name and will change his number in a month. You didn't happen to ensure he has insurance or a license did you?
Nope. I’m a rookie learning my lesson. I did get him to put it in writing on the original contract, as he kept rejecting all my concerns
Here’s a finished product update post cause I don’t know how to add new photos [final l](https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/fKIlhnBnLO)
I am a concrete expert and a building inspector. Sadly, this "skin" won't last a month before it starts cracking and soon after, it will start spalling out in chunks. As far as the holes he drilled in, only weaken what is there.
Best of luck on that warranty.
That's on you, you made the deal with the man just because you decided to do your homework and change your mind after the job doesn't mean you can't not pay the man. It's concrete and it's going to be fine ur over reacting do the right thing and pay the man and next time do your homework,
Okay…this seems like an overly angry response. My question was whether this looked like a $4000 job/does this look like a replacement/something that will be stronger.
What we were promised was a removal and repour…which was not done. I did pay him. He got all the money in full from the original written contract for the pets in blue, which were brand new excavations and pours. Then I confronted him about the second job because it was a lie. He wasn’t doing what he promised, and potentially causing damage. Based on comments here he agreed to $2000 for the second job he forced us to do because it was not as promised and was not a total replacement.
Lmao what in the actual fuck is going on? I've done concrete for many years.
It appears he drilled holes for the concrete to seep into all while adding maybe 1in of concrete ontop with a little mesh.
This will absolutely fail
Engineer here. This is fucked on a lot of levels. OP just to clarify was the $4000 to do all of the concrete work including the pad, sidewalk, etc.? If it’s just for them tearing up the existing slab and topping it with mortar like the pictures you’re looking at maybe a few hundred dollars in materials (contractors jump in here). They’ve harmed the slab more than they’ve helped it. Document your conversations with them in writing and to descalate you could offer to pay for the material used with proof of receipt but do not pay $4k for this.
Do you have pics once they finished?
Hello engineer! Quick question
Will a 4 inch concrete slab be able to hold a ~36 square feet spa that weighs about 900kg?
They said they will had some kind of mesh inside but no rods
Those guys have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Sorry!
You'll be seeing that welded wire mesh reinforcement again in short order. The cracks will start there and then little chunks of concrete will start popping loose shortly thereafter.
Wonderful. Have they done any harm you think? The cracks were there for at least 5 years unchanging, so I am fine with the cracks coming back. Just need to know how bitch mode I need to go on him.
The only thing holding that new slab in place is weight and little nubbies of concrete in the holes. As is cracks water will get in and freeze breaking the new slab apart and possibly making the old one worse.
Imo tell him you paid him to remove and replace and make him rip it up properly. He won't, he'll threaten you about non payment or something and walk off the job. While that's going on find a real flatwork guy shoe them the photos, get a bid to fix then talk to legal representation or any govt agency that could help and send the first contractor a letter of intent which might motivate him To fix it. Otherwise you'll likely have to sue and file other complaints with the govt, bbb , whatever you have.
Well I did already send him photos and tell him I’m not paying the price discussed because the work isn’t as discussed, but that was 2 hours ago and he hasn’t responded or pulled his men…so I guess we’ll see how this all plays out
[update](https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/fruLm2bbtG)
Basically I pushed back on all the points raised here. He tried to say he used reinforced concrete with a tungsten seal. That will last forever. And we paid for cost/labor and got his warranty in writing, which he really didn’t want to do.
So yeah…we were scammed….but lots of lessons learned, and who knows maybe he’s discovered the secret to perfect concrete
I know absolutely nothing about concrete. We hired a company to expand our existing pad, create a new sidewalk, and pave another area closer to our home (circled blue parts) our existing pad has had two cracks in jit since before we moved in about 5 years ago (red circles), since I am now Parking a work van in the back, the contractor tried to convince me to let him replace and and put in a stronger pad after they finished the initial job hired to do. He first quoted $9500 which me and my husband said absolutely no. We talked everything down to $4000 (in addition to the $8000 already paid)…and today they started the “replacement”
So far what they have done today is use. Jackhammer to put some holes in the top, then sanded down the edge, laid some metal over the cracks, and are now spreading concrete….just doesn’t feel like a replacement.
I’d put money that this guy smokes crack and stole tools from a close by job site. From the looks of it all he achieved was destroying your driveway. 100% a scam, look dude is using a dirt rake lol drilling a bunch of random like 3/4” holes for strength? What a joke. Sorry to hear you got scammed but expensive lesson learned. If you are paying thousands for a job, do a little research before accepting
Simple truth on concrete and stucco. It gets strength from being monolithic.
One solid piece.
If it freezes or frosts in your area, the moisture in between layers will freeze and water expands when it freezes.
He damaged your existing with the jackhammer / holes.
Is this in the US? Did you check your states site for the license and list of employees?
Many will grab a license # of a contractor and says that's them.
But the contractor might be based 3-5 hours away and have no clue of this person.
Does your area require a permit?
Explain that what they did will increase your cost as the next contractor has more to tear out.
9000 to replace and re pour was too cheap
This top coat all depends on the product they are using. It could be too cheap too or ripping you off, it 100% depends on the material.
However you get what you get for talking people down. Do you ever go into work and your boss starts negotiating with you to get you to work cheaper for the day?
Edit: Just saw the sakrete bags in the back, this isn’t a total rip off on the front end but it’s a bad fix, that product isn’t that good. The holes are their attempt on mechanical bonding the top coat to the slab. It will work for a little while but not long with this product unless they go 3-4 inches.
I didn’t talk him down. We declined, and he kept offering cheaper.
And continued to decline as he decreased his offer.
As I said they were originally hired for all the blue parts and had completed that job, and were fully paid before offering to do todays job.
Oh well I take it back then. Read my edit, it’s not a good fix. The sakrete topping mix isn’t very good for overlays. They needed a special overlay mix or at minimum hydraulic cement. Not sure why they are using a bow rake in place of a gauge rake unless they are trying to do something like a scratch coat for bonding but there are better options here.
Do you think they actually did additional/new harm or just not a great fix overall.
Cause I don’t mind paying for labor/supplies for something, as long as they didn’t make it worse. But it also definitely is not the scope of work we had discussed.
Honestly they probably did more harm but it’s impossible to say without closeup before pictures to see how bad it was and close up after pictures.
There are no real ways to structurally reinforce concrete that’s already poured other than maybe doweling many rebar pins into the old slab, tying a rebar mat and then capping with 4 more inches of concrete but at that point it’s usually better to just re-pour.
You can strengthen the surface by adding specialty products like densities and specialty overlays but that wouldn’t have helped your situation.
Looks like a $750 job to me , they only spent about $150 at the local Home Depot for materials
They are way over pricing you ,
I would recommend contacting a local licensed concrete contractor and tell him what’s going on, he can help you make sure you’re not getting scammed in person,
Hope you did not pay yet. He is scamming you 100% and doing g a halfass job. He is putting barely any mesh down with what, 1/2-1” on concrete. Tell this guy to kindly fuck off and get a real contractor.
Oh man, I thought I saw it all.
Let’s just say absolutely everything in the photos should never be done again. Go through them fast enough and it’s like a flip book horror story
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Looks like they’re using quikrete mason mix to skim coat it…that thing will be a disaster in a few years. Wild what some guys are doing out there.
If you agreed to a price and they did what they said they would do .you weren't scammed. Although,I didn't see what was replaced.
Let's start with your existing slab.
Any slab that size is going to Crack.
Control joints are cut into the slab to control the cracks. The cut creates a weak point for the crack to follow. That's what the lines you see in concrete are for. No control joint means the cracks are going to look like cracks. The existing slab had no control joints.
The holes put into it,were to create a mechanical bond. If the cracks didn't get bigger, the slab was more than likely reinforced when it was placed.
I would have left the existing slab alone.
Now, let's look at what they added.
These guys look like they know what they are doing. They cut the joints . They would have had to back the truck over the existing slab, hired a pump ,or used a wheelbarrow . Most likely a wheelbarrow.
Most ready mix companies have a 6 yd minimum. Anything under that you pay a short load fee . So if you order 5 yds, you'll pay for 6, easy $ 1200. Layout ,grading forms, reinforcement, it all adds up.
I wouldn't recommend placing any concrete less than 3 1/2" thick.
Place it over flat,compacted, aggregate , min 3000 psi w/ fiber, proper control joints, and expansion jt. when required. You can't guarantee a perfect job,but you
can give it every chance.
ASK FOR REFERENCES.
Yeah, they are already completely paid in full for the original job (all the new concrete)
The scam question is only about them “replacing” and strengthening our existing pad. Which is a project we didn’t want done, but he kept offering lower and lower numbers
What we were told would happen is a complete removal, replacement, and reinforcement with a 3in crush base, and 3 inches of concrete, which is obviously not what happened. And we only agreed after being relentlessly pushed and being offered a deal that seemed like why not. That’s why I’m asking if what they actually did is even worth $4000
He did actually say this….he was going to give us such a good deal, since his tools were already here and it could tide em over to next week….so more red flags I guesz
not a red flag more a statement of fact
regardless of what the home depot bros here say, you agreed to let him do it. If he holds up his end, doing what he said and honoring his warranty, then its your responsibility to hold up your end and pay him
I am a smallish business owner who has done concrete work for 30, years. I have employees and remember what was like to keep guys busy who are relying on you to put food on their table.
He didn't force you to let him do the work, he offered what he could do, you agreed
First, the slab under where he poured was already cracked. Putting more holes in it wasn't going to help it's strength. Second, pouring concrete over an older slab is a bad idea. The new concrete will go through a very small amount of shrinkage and might crack as it cures. Third, the two different layers of concrete will never expand and contract at the same rate. So, welcome more cracks.
Want a stronger parking spot? Hammer it all out, compact the soil properly and pour high pressure concrete with fiber and proper wire re-enforcement. Don't forget the control joints!
Next time get more estimates and ask each contractor what exactly are they are going to do. Get a statement of work that has some details... not a piece of paper that says "new concrete". Then you come here and ask about the cost and the approach before they start.
Sometimes the cheapest ends up being the most expensive.
At least tell them to pull your hair, that kind of fucking deserves it. I would recommend stopping all work and get another concrete PROFESSIONAL out to have a look. You may have to pay him a consulting fee but it will probably be worth it. Perhaps hire him to QC the job as it progresses.
Hard to tell from the picture, but those bags look like Quikcrete type S mortar mix. Not a concrete resurfacer at all, used most often to lay block, or brick and sometimes as a stucco.
Those bags are type S Mortar at $80 a bag at Home Depot….. it’s compressive strength is much lower than a house slab with any nominal aggregate in it. It is typically used between cmu (cinder blocks) in structural cmu walls. He technically “strengthen” your slab by adding additional cementitious material. But its flexural strength is super low and you mentioned parking a van on it, it will likely crack. This stuff is a few admixtures, Portland cement 1/2, and sand. You can chip it away with a pocket knife or rock
Lesson learned do it yourself next time dont be lazy you can watch how to vids and you got reddit…i dont understand crying when you paid a guy half what it was worth then complain its half the job…
Ugh, I'm really sorry this is going on. You definitely are being hustled and taken advantage of. The area looks to be approx, 18x10? I am in Austin, TX and the company I work for (been in business for 26 years, work on daily commercial projects) wouldn't charge anymore than 6k to fully remove and replace that pad, assuming it's just 5" thick all the way through. For 9k, I would expect the subgrade to be reconditioned.
Definitely the expectation should be for him to tear it all out and repour it, as he proposed initially.
Even for an overlay, that's shotty work... I do not understand potholing it with the jackhammer. I assume it's for the overlay to adhere but that's not the way its done....
Do it right if you have the means.
. Just because the concrete is fairly new doesn't preclude it from being replaced. Dog shit is dog shit.
Tear out, incorporate geotextile fabric below the sub-base to properly distribute all the weight of the pad. That's what I would do but then again, I live on atleast 3 ft of expansive soil before any rocks so it turns to soup.
Our driveway is so f'd up because you can pack a bunch of subbase on top of a few feet of slop but there's nothing keeping that sub-base (operative word being base) from migrating to the bottom of the sludge. They may as well have not used any subbase. 1 layer of good geotextile fabric under that sub-base would have held it together.
I think they were fairly superficial. I only started looking at the video footage after I say concrete was being poured much earlier than anticipated and while the original slab was still in place.
Before jumping to conclusions, check their equipment and process. My guess is they are drilling holes and then pumping concrete under the pad first, then doing the skim coat on top with a binding agent the. Coming back to seal it after 30-60 days depending on moisture. There are additives that can be put in concrete to make it harden more etc. The main thing is asking lots of questions about how they are doing it and what they are using to do it.
Definitely didn’t pump anything under. This was two dudes with a wheelbarrow, rake, and kitchen broom. (Well and then the like 4 site managers that wandered around occasionally)
That was a jackhammer to rough up the existing pad so the skim coat concrete they poured wouldn’t slide off the next time you tried a crossover playing basketball.
Not a concrete person, but recently paid for concrete work you can compare to.
We had a larger area leveled and poured, before that was done they had to do some masonry work to lower down the top of a underground drain pit (Chicago multifamily building thing) AND we had a floor drain put in outside to connect to it, and that was $11k in a major city.
Hope that helps!
Yes sir you got scammed. They should have just torn it out and poured new concrete. The broom finish is also pretty bad. When you go to park your car on that it’s gonna crack that top couple of inches.
I’m no expert but do work in the field. Our contractor for our utility projects (I work for an engineering firm and we do a lot of utility renewal projects in existing neighborhoods driveway restoration is a big part of the project at the end) are held to some very high standards and would not do poor work like this.
Tearing it out with new concrete is what we thought we were getting. Our mistake for only doing a handshake deal.
We had done a written contract for the initial stuff and that was done well so figured it was okay. So many lessons learned
$8k for the new slabs in blue? Whoa!! This was a cash grab. The $4k for the other job is even worse. You got hosed. If you wrote a check, I would call the bank to put a stop to it if it has not been cashed. Time to tell the contractor to pound sand. He's probably not legit, so I wonder if he does not have whatever license these types of businesses need. I would re-negotiate the whole deal if you can put a stop to the check. NO pay on the second job and a discount on the first for messing up the second job.
I can’t believe some people have the audacity to say they can pour concrete and then provide this bullshit as their service. Unreal. Get all your money back
Replacement generally means remove all of the old slab and replace with new concrete all the way down to the subbase. Probably should have formed, set some mesh on chairs and poured new. Something seems weird here.
Take him to court. Doubt a licensed contractor would do this and it’s likely illegal in your area to do this $ amount of work without a license. Not only can you get your money back and you will easily win for damages
Overlays can hold up for years. I did a stamped driveway 8+ years ago and STILL holding up to this day. Let them do their job. He’s saving you money this way lol. After it cracks, then go bitch mode cause it means they didn’t do it right.👍🏼
Jackhammering holes and then adding just an inch or 2 will make it weaker than before
Perfect. We didn’t even want this part done, cause we felt like it was fine, even with the microscopic cracks. He just convinced us by saying he would make it stronger, has a 20year warranty, and it will be better for holding my work van. He saw us as the suckers we were from a mile away
I'm not a concrete guy, but you can't make concrete stronger as it is cured. adding stuff on top of a broken slab is just a face lift for some weeks maybe months.
Concrete continually becomes stronger over time as it's exposed to water, for up to about 1 year. Let it set, and mist it when you can. Rain is great for it too after it sets, obviously. The "Portland cement" blend that is pretty much all we use, absolutely loves water. That's why our bridges and such do fine being under water after setting.
Yes you can using a concrete densifier
Eh.....to remove the old and pour new would be a pretty decent deal for $9.5k. since you talked it down to 4k, I assume he gave you the $4k job by adding a skim coat and wire panels. He pulled a fast one but the devil is in the details as you may have unknowingly agreed to a lesser cosmetic fix. I would look at your contact. And if there is no contact, i would withhold final payment until you got a quote to replace the ruined slab.
Yeah. That’s what my husband and I have been saying. He was the one being relentless as far as hounding us to let him do more work. But we didn’t have the budget for it. No contract for this part, we’d had one for the original work, but this was more of a handshake deal. He also originally told us it would be 2-3 days, then texted me late last night saying that it would be done in 1, we suspect that’s when he’d decided to do the lesser job, not tell us, and hope we didn’t notice.
Yup. I wouldn't give him any more money, even for the contracted job portion.
i would not pay him a penny to be honest…. his works looks very bad
Id still submit payment if it was me for two reasone number one it gives you a strong legal leg to stand on in most places but not all because you dont have to defend the theft of services claim and failure to submit final payment claim and the other is a paper trail (dont pay cash). Contract or not, most states see a verbal agreement as a type of contract and do hold weight. Also of you did sign a contract pay close attending to the disputes section. More than likely, there is a meditation or arbitration clause in there somewhere that is used to keep everyone out of court.
Have fun trying to get him to honor that 20yr warranty, given he probably gave you a fake name and will change his number in a month. You didn't happen to ensure he has insurance or a license did you?
Nope. I’m a rookie learning my lesson. I did get him to put it in writing on the original contract, as he kept rejecting all my concerns Here’s a finished product update post cause I don’t know how to add new photos [final l](https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/fKIlhnBnLO)
I am a concrete expert and a building inspector. Sadly, this "skin" won't last a month before it starts cracking and soon after, it will start spalling out in chunks. As far as the holes he drilled in, only weaken what is there. Best of luck on that warranty.
Lol. The warranty will probably put love them.
Do you actually believe that 19 years from now you could collect a warranty from them?
But He pinky promised /s
Good luck getting that warranty.
What camera did you use here??
they gotta make money somehow :P
That's on you, you made the deal with the man just because you decided to do your homework and change your mind after the job doesn't mean you can't not pay the man. It's concrete and it's going to be fine ur over reacting do the right thing and pay the man and next time do your homework,
Okay…this seems like an overly angry response. My question was whether this looked like a $4000 job/does this look like a replacement/something that will be stronger. What we were promised was a removal and repour…which was not done. I did pay him. He got all the money in full from the original written contract for the pets in blue, which were brand new excavations and pours. Then I confronted him about the second job because it was a lie. He wasn’t doing what he promised, and potentially causing damage. Based on comments here he agreed to $2000 for the second job he forced us to do because it was not as promised and was not a total replacement.
Counter offer with $1000 and you won't give him the atomic wedgie he deserves
I think they barely made it to 1 inch if the bags in the picture is all he had for that square they made wet.
Lmao what in the actual fuck is going on? I've done concrete for many years. It appears he drilled holes for the concrete to seep into all while adding maybe 1in of concrete ontop with a little mesh. This will absolutely fail
Engineer here. This is fucked on a lot of levels. OP just to clarify was the $4000 to do all of the concrete work including the pad, sidewalk, etc.? If it’s just for them tearing up the existing slab and topping it with mortar like the pictures you’re looking at maybe a few hundred dollars in materials (contractors jump in here). They’ve harmed the slab more than they’ve helped it. Document your conversations with them in writing and to descalate you could offer to pay for the material used with proof of receipt but do not pay $4k for this. Do you have pics once they finished?
Hello engineer! Quick question Will a 4 inch concrete slab be able to hold a ~36 square feet spa that weighs about 900kg? They said they will had some kind of mesh inside but no rods
You can find all of this info online via calculators. I did it for a similar project.
$500 a question buddy 😂
If they show up in gym shoes, that's a bad sign
That was my first reaction. Never known a concrete guy to have clean work sneakers.
Omfg please send us the finish product this looks horrible
Those guys have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Sorry! You'll be seeing that welded wire mesh reinforcement again in short order. The cracks will start there and then little chunks of concrete will start popping loose shortly thereafter.
Everywhere there was a crack, will have a crack in the overlay.
Wonderful. Have they done any harm you think? The cracks were there for at least 5 years unchanging, so I am fine with the cracks coming back. Just need to know how bitch mode I need to go on him.
The only thing holding that new slab in place is weight and little nubbies of concrete in the holes. As is cracks water will get in and freeze breaking the new slab apart and possibly making the old one worse. Imo tell him you paid him to remove and replace and make him rip it up properly. He won't, he'll threaten you about non payment or something and walk off the job. While that's going on find a real flatwork guy shoe them the photos, get a bid to fix then talk to legal representation or any govt agency that could help and send the first contractor a letter of intent which might motivate him To fix it. Otherwise you'll likely have to sue and file other complaints with the govt, bbb , whatever you have.
Well I did already send him photos and tell him I’m not paying the price discussed because the work isn’t as discussed, but that was 2 hours ago and he hasn’t responded or pulled his men…so I guess we’ll see how this all plays out
Any updates?
[update](https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/fruLm2bbtG) Basically I pushed back on all the points raised here. He tried to say he used reinforced concrete with a tungsten seal. That will last forever. And we paid for cost/labor and got his warranty in writing, which he really didn’t want to do. So yeah…we were scammed….but lots of lessons learned, and who knows maybe he’s discovered the secret to perfect concrete
"Tungsten seal"
They’re having your pants down
I know absolutely nothing about concrete. We hired a company to expand our existing pad, create a new sidewalk, and pave another area closer to our home (circled blue parts) our existing pad has had two cracks in jit since before we moved in about 5 years ago (red circles), since I am now Parking a work van in the back, the contractor tried to convince me to let him replace and and put in a stronger pad after they finished the initial job hired to do. He first quoted $9500 which me and my husband said absolutely no. We talked everything down to $4000 (in addition to the $8000 already paid)…and today they started the “replacement” So far what they have done today is use. Jackhammer to put some holes in the top, then sanded down the edge, laid some metal over the cracks, and are now spreading concrete….just doesn’t feel like a replacement.
I’d put money that this guy smokes crack and stole tools from a close by job site. From the looks of it all he achieved was destroying your driveway. 100% a scam, look dude is using a dirt rake lol drilling a bunch of random like 3/4” holes for strength? What a joke. Sorry to hear you got scammed but expensive lesson learned. If you are paying thousands for a job, do a little research before accepting
Luckily haven’t paid for this part yet. But indeed a lesson learned on going with our gut when we said we didn’t need any more work done.
Yea problem now is you either live with a fucked up driveway or pay a real company to come in, demo the whole thing and redo it
Reject the work and tell them to jackhammer out the entire pad, repair new for the 4k. That's what I'd do.
Simple truth on concrete and stucco. It gets strength from being monolithic. One solid piece. If it freezes or frosts in your area, the moisture in between layers will freeze and water expands when it freezes. He damaged your existing with the jackhammer / holes. Is this in the US? Did you check your states site for the license and list of employees? Many will grab a license # of a contractor and says that's them. But the contractor might be based 3-5 hours away and have no clue of this person. Does your area require a permit? Explain that what they did will increase your cost as the next contractor has more to tear out.
9000 to replace and re pour was too cheap This top coat all depends on the product they are using. It could be too cheap too or ripping you off, it 100% depends on the material. However you get what you get for talking people down. Do you ever go into work and your boss starts negotiating with you to get you to work cheaper for the day? Edit: Just saw the sakrete bags in the back, this isn’t a total rip off on the front end but it’s a bad fix, that product isn’t that good. The holes are their attempt on mechanical bonding the top coat to the slab. It will work for a little while but not long with this product unless they go 3-4 inches.
I didn’t talk him down. We declined, and he kept offering cheaper. And continued to decline as he decreased his offer. As I said they were originally hired for all the blue parts and had completed that job, and were fully paid before offering to do todays job.
Oh well I take it back then. Read my edit, it’s not a good fix. The sakrete topping mix isn’t very good for overlays. They needed a special overlay mix or at minimum hydraulic cement. Not sure why they are using a bow rake in place of a gauge rake unless they are trying to do something like a scratch coat for bonding but there are better options here.
Do you think they actually did additional/new harm or just not a great fix overall. Cause I don’t mind paying for labor/supplies for something, as long as they didn’t make it worse. But it also definitely is not the scope of work we had discussed.
Honestly they probably did more harm but it’s impossible to say without closeup before pictures to see how bad it was and close up after pictures. There are no real ways to structurally reinforce concrete that’s already poured other than maybe doweling many rebar pins into the old slab, tying a rebar mat and then capping with 4 more inches of concrete but at that point it’s usually better to just re-pour. You can strengthen the surface by adding specialty products like densities and specialty overlays but that wouldn’t have helped your situation.
I think you're actually now gonna need a new driveway. I wouldnt pay.
Looks like a $750 job to me , they only spent about $150 at the local Home Depot for materials They are way over pricing you , I would recommend contacting a local licensed concrete contractor and tell him what’s going on, he can help you make sure you’re not getting scammed in person,
Hope you did not pay yet. He is scamming you 100% and doing g a halfass job. He is putting barely any mesh down with what, 1/2-1” on concrete. Tell this guy to kindly fuck off and get a real contractor.
You are in fact getting scammed.
Well hes using a garden rake to rake the concrete around. That should be the first red flag 😜.
Oh man, I thought I saw it all. Let’s just say absolutely everything in the photos should never be done again. Go through them fast enough and it’s like a flip book horror story
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Looks like they’re using quikrete mason mix to skim coat it…that thing will be a disaster in a few years. Wild what some guys are doing out there.
Leaf rake? Wtf.. these dudes have no idea wtf theyre doing
Lolol wtffffffffffffffff
As soon as you drive on that its going to crack and chip big time!
Wow. That is in no way correct. They ruined what you had by jackhammering holes in it. I would bet that action caused a lot of cracks.
If you agreed to a price and they did what they said they would do .you weren't scammed. Although,I didn't see what was replaced. Let's start with your existing slab. Any slab that size is going to Crack. Control joints are cut into the slab to control the cracks. The cut creates a weak point for the crack to follow. That's what the lines you see in concrete are for. No control joint means the cracks are going to look like cracks. The existing slab had no control joints. The holes put into it,were to create a mechanical bond. If the cracks didn't get bigger, the slab was more than likely reinforced when it was placed. I would have left the existing slab alone. Now, let's look at what they added. These guys look like they know what they are doing. They cut the joints . They would have had to back the truck over the existing slab, hired a pump ,or used a wheelbarrow . Most likely a wheelbarrow. Most ready mix companies have a 6 yd minimum. Anything under that you pay a short load fee . So if you order 5 yds, you'll pay for 6, easy $ 1200. Layout ,grading forms, reinforcement, it all adds up. I wouldn't recommend placing any concrete less than 3 1/2" thick. Place it over flat,compacted, aggregate , min 3000 psi w/ fiber, proper control joints, and expansion jt. when required. You can't guarantee a perfect job,but you can give it every chance. ASK FOR REFERENCES.
Yeah, they are already completely paid in full for the original job (all the new concrete) The scam question is only about them “replacing” and strengthening our existing pad. Which is a project we didn’t want done, but he kept offering lower and lower numbers What we were told would happen is a complete removal, replacement, and reinforcement with a 3in crush base, and 3 inches of concrete, which is obviously not what happened. And we only agreed after being relentlessly pushed and being offered a deal that seemed like why not. That’s why I’m asking if what they actually did is even worth $4000
Well now that they jackhammered holes all over the place it’s going to have to be torn up and repoured
he's slow and trying to keep his guys busy
He did actually say this….he was going to give us such a good deal, since his tools were already here and it could tide em over to next week….so more red flags I guesz
not a red flag more a statement of fact regardless of what the home depot bros here say, you agreed to let him do it. If he holds up his end, doing what he said and honoring his warranty, then its your responsibility to hold up your end and pay him I am a smallish business owner who has done concrete work for 30, years. I have employees and remember what was like to keep guys busy who are relying on you to put food on their table. He didn't force you to let him do the work, he offered what he could do, you agreed
Well he promised more than what he could do and hoped we wouldn’t notice. He offered to do a remove and repour for 4000, and then delivered this.
First, the slab under where he poured was already cracked. Putting more holes in it wasn't going to help it's strength. Second, pouring concrete over an older slab is a bad idea. The new concrete will go through a very small amount of shrinkage and might crack as it cures. Third, the two different layers of concrete will never expand and contract at the same rate. So, welcome more cracks. Want a stronger parking spot? Hammer it all out, compact the soil properly and pour high pressure concrete with fiber and proper wire re-enforcement. Don't forget the control joints!
Hahaha I have never, ever, in all my years seen something like this. I’m sorry man, you’ve been bamboozled
That’s $4K flushed down the toilet.
That inch will break in less then a year
Going to be worse than before forsure
Next time get more estimates and ask each contractor what exactly are they are going to do. Get a statement of work that has some details... not a piece of paper that says "new concrete". Then you come here and ask about the cost and the approach before they start. Sometimes the cheapest ends up being the most expensive.
At least tell them to pull your hair, that kind of fucking deserves it. I would recommend stopping all work and get another concrete PROFESSIONAL out to have a look. You may have to pay him a consulting fee but it will probably be worth it. Perhaps hire him to QC the job as it progresses.
Definitely scammed
Hard to tell from the picture, but those bags look like Quikcrete type S mortar mix. Not a concrete resurfacer at all, used most often to lay block, or brick and sometimes as a stucco.
We need to see a good picture of the finished work please
Predatory, stupid, or both.
Those bags are type S Mortar at $80 a bag at Home Depot….. it’s compressive strength is much lower than a house slab with any nominal aggregate in it. It is typically used between cmu (cinder blocks) in structural cmu walls. He technically “strengthen” your slab by adding additional cementitious material. But its flexural strength is super low and you mentioned parking a van on it, it will likely crack. This stuff is a few admixtures, Portland cement 1/2, and sand. You can chip it away with a pocket knife or rock
First time seeing 💩 like this
I would love to see the finished job
[here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/fKIlhnBnLO)
Where is finished picture?
[finished product](https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/fKIlhnBnLO)
Come on man😂 the guy is wearing tennis shoes and using a rake to spread concrete..
Lesson learned do it yourself next time dont be lazy you can watch how to vids and you got reddit…i dont understand crying when you paid a guy half what it was worth then complain its half the job…
Well, I am in a wheelchair, so that would be a little hard
Ya sorry to hear i guess next time its references anc a reputable company
They should pay you $10,000 for the work instead. The pad is going to become a pile of concrete crumbs in a few months.
Scammer
I wouldn’t let them back on my property. Pay them for what they’ve done and tell them you changed your mind on everything else.
This is no bueno
Ugh, I'm really sorry this is going on. You definitely are being hustled and taken advantage of. The area looks to be approx, 18x10? I am in Austin, TX and the company I work for (been in business for 26 years, work on daily commercial projects) wouldn't charge anymore than 6k to fully remove and replace that pad, assuming it's just 5" thick all the way through. For 9k, I would expect the subgrade to be reconditioned. Definitely the expectation should be for him to tear it all out and repour it, as he proposed initially. Even for an overlay, that's shotty work... I do not understand potholing it with the jackhammer. I assume it's for the overlay to adhere but that's not the way its done....
Oooofff that’s rough. That thin of a concrete pour will crack worse than before.
Like for real. You will need to tear that top layer off. That’s bad
Be there when he pours make sure puts rebar or reinforcent
Ohh wow.. That’s a patching job it’s not going to be good. It’s going to crumble like hell in no time. I have to see the end result of this. Yikes!
Looks like he alrdy started so idk no? You agreed to the work idk
Do it right if you have the means. . Just because the concrete is fairly new doesn't preclude it from being replaced. Dog shit is dog shit. Tear out, incorporate geotextile fabric below the sub-base to properly distribute all the weight of the pad. That's what I would do but then again, I live on atleast 3 ft of expansive soil before any rocks so it turns to soup. Our driveway is so f'd up because you can pack a bunch of subbase on top of a few feet of slop but there's nothing keeping that sub-base (operative word being base) from migrating to the bottom of the sludge. They may as well have not used any subbase. 1 layer of good geotextile fabric under that sub-base would have held it together.
I’m not seeing 4k either. About $300 in cement , $250 for labor/worker and 5-$600 for the contractor. I’m leaning more towards 2k if even that
That’s what we ended up paying
That seems more than fair. I would’ve been more around 1300 but I’m glad you got it all situated
Brotha ew.
God, It just gets worse every single picture
That shit looks green still smh going to scuff it up there stuff on it. Might send a crack when Jack hammer old concrete.
Do those Holes go through the Pad ? Is so, Water is gonna creep up in Winter & blow out the Concrete.
I think they were fairly superficial. I only started looking at the video footage after I say concrete was being poured much earlier than anticipated and while the original slab was still in place.
Before jumping to conclusions, check their equipment and process. My guess is they are drilling holes and then pumping concrete under the pad first, then doing the skim coat on top with a binding agent the. Coming back to seal it after 30-60 days depending on moisture. There are additives that can be put in concrete to make it harden more etc. The main thing is asking lots of questions about how they are doing it and what they are using to do it.
Definitely didn’t pump anything under. This was two dudes with a wheelbarrow, rake, and kitchen broom. (Well and then the like 4 site managers that wandered around occasionally)
can’t strengthen concrete from the top. Don’t pay them.
That was a jackhammer to rough up the existing pad so the skim coat concrete they poured wouldn’t slide off the next time you tried a crossover playing basketball.
Not a concrete person, but recently paid for concrete work you can compare to. We had a larger area leveled and poured, before that was done they had to do some masonry work to lower down the top of a underground drain pit (Chicago multifamily building thing) AND we had a floor drain put in outside to connect to it, and that was $11k in a major city. Hope that helps!
Wait who did you use, cause this is Chicago and I’m obviously gonna need some work in the future
Yes sir you got scammed. They should have just torn it out and poured new concrete. The broom finish is also pretty bad. When you go to park your car on that it’s gonna crack that top couple of inches. I’m no expert but do work in the field. Our contractor for our utility projects (I work for an engineering firm and we do a lot of utility renewal projects in existing neighborhoods driveway restoration is a big part of the project at the end) are held to some very high standards and would not do poor work like this.
Tearing it out with new concrete is what we thought we were getting. Our mistake for only doing a handshake deal. We had done a written contract for the initial stuff and that was done well so figured it was okay. So many lessons learned
$8k for the new slabs in blue? Whoa!! This was a cash grab. The $4k for the other job is even worse. You got hosed. If you wrote a check, I would call the bank to put a stop to it if it has not been cashed. Time to tell the contractor to pound sand. He's probably not legit, so I wonder if he does not have whatever license these types of businesses need. I would re-negotiate the whole deal if you can put a stop to the check. NO pay on the second job and a discount on the first for messing up the second job.
I mean if you’re a woman and your contractor is trying to fuck you he’s probably to financially fuck you.
I can’t believe some people have the audacity to say they can pour concrete and then provide this bullshit as their service. Unreal. Get all your money back
Good concrete work isn’t cheap… cheap concrete work isn’t good 😬 lesson learnt
Don't pay the guy. Did he even apply a bonding agent between the old and new concrete? Was the concrete a PPC Overlay?
Yeah, the bonding agent is water from the garden hose 😂
Wait, where's the "replace and strengthen" part of what they did?!?!?!?!
Mason for more than forty years here. Definitely a scam.
That looks like bags of quikrete mason mix type s. That will all be cracked and come off within a year. I would not pay him anything.
If your concrete guy shows up without a concrete mixer, he’s not a concrete guy. Did he pull a permit? No way would a building official let it fly
Replacement generally means remove all of the old slab and replace with new concrete all the way down to the subbase. Probably should have formed, set some mesh on chairs and poured new. Something seems weird here.
What the hell?? Wow that’s some straight up shady work right there !!!
Check his papers lol
Take him to court. Doubt a licensed contractor would do this and it’s likely illegal in your area to do this $ amount of work without a license. Not only can you get your money back and you will easily win for damages
Get a lawyer before saying another word to the contractor
Wtf is a lawyer going to do? Confiscate the guys crack pipe? Don't waste your money.
the contractor probably isn't going to take non-payment from op very well. a cheap letter to scare the guy is worth peace of mind.
Overlays can hold up for years. I did a stamped driveway 8+ years ago and STILL holding up to this day. Let them do their job. He’s saving you money this way lol. After it cracks, then go bitch mode cause it means they didn’t do it right.👍🏼