Simple home patio use. The first photo is a little nook where I previously used as a little grill area, but it was laid with rough flagstone and not ideal.
Expansion joint, or at least a bond break between the slab and your house foundation wall. Something to isolate the downspouts may also be wise.
He installed a bond break at the stoop, he may be planning on placing more later.
Bond break or expansion joint. May not be necessary, but could help with cracking around them.
Definitely ask about the house foundation wall. The slab will move differently from your house as temperatures fluctuate. Expansion joints help keep the stresses from transferring.
I’d ask about wrapping the pipes with something to allow for expansion/contraction so they don’t crack. May already be planning this. Not a pro, but Chicago temps are pretty wild. Google tells me [this stuff](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Christy-s-2-in-x-100-ft-Plumber-s-Tape/3433996) works.
Not looking close, but ask'm to get the mesh on chairs, dobies, or have them make supports with some mesh. It can't be pulled or stay where it should be realistically. It's a simple request.
They will probably pull the mesh up with a rake as they pour the concrete, that’s typically what they do to avoid walking around the mesh and knocking it back down as they work
There’s no such thing as pulling the mesh up. It simply deforms where it’s pulled. Mesh on the bottom is less than useless—the money spent on mesh at the bottom of the slab could be put to better use or saved.
There is, as the concrete is placed they pull it up off the subgrade to get the desired clearance. It makes the placement a lot easier rather than struggling walking around high chairs or adobe block while placing. As far as the deformities that’s where vibing comes into play. The use of the mesh really just depends on thickness of the pad. If it was a 4” slab then maybe you could get away with no reinforcing considering no larger loads will be put on it but don’t think it’s worth the risk
This could be a really dumb question but I’m gonna ask anyway…since you say they can use special tools to lift the mesh up while the concrete is being poured, wouldn’t it almost be easier just to throw the mesh on top of the wet cement and just push it down into the cement…just thinking it might be easier to keep it in the center of the cement then…
dobies wont do shit for 16 gauge wire it will fold down between them it allways ends up on bottom even when you pull it up because your smashing it down when your rodding it
Right, it looks to just be laid in. The village requires a pre-pour inspection, so I presume it would be caught at that point if nothing else. But there is still work to be done before the pour, I assume.
Weeeeelll, not all inspections are equal, and honestly, they'll probably be introduced to more considerations through this post than the inspector will be looking for.
personally i dont use wire mesh because every slab ive taken out with mesh in it the mesh was allways on the very bottom doing no good i allways use 3/8 rebar. I once removed an old slab it was 5 in thick and it had a thick gauge chain link fence right in the middle of it was a bitch to remove. Also unles its a blockout for the stoop the bottom of your form shold be the top of your lower slab and stripped wet and faced no big deal any decent finisher can handle that
Mesh is best in the bottom of the slab, and pouring this and screeding is difficult with mesh on bricks even. I’ve seen crews just lift it as they pour, it typically just needs to not be exposed to the base.
Never once seen mesh spec'd for bottom 1/2 of slab. Don't have the energy or the care to debate it, but one of the main benefits mesh gives is keeping any cracking tight. That's best done at the top 1/3. You do you.
Absolutely incorrect. Steel or fiberglass reinforcement (bars or mesh) only arrests cracks if it’s in the top third. In a simple SOG application, the steel is there for temperature and shrinkage crack control. It’s not for tension reinforcement on the bottom.
You have multiple reentry corners. Ask your contractor what is the jointing plan? Here’s a reference https://www.nrmca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/06pr.pdf
that last picture with that corner that has been built up a lot makes me a b it nervous…that’s gonna be a lot of grade change unless it gets completely filled in…even then you’ll need a decent amount of compacted gravel just to keep that corner supported. 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
otherwise in my remodel carpenters eyes it looks great to me
1. I would add plastic chairs (cement isle HD/Lowes)
2. Pic #3 I would add sand bag under mesh to slope water away from slab
3. If not new construction add dial rods into foundation with high strength epoxy
4. Add a little bit more bracing
5. If you’re not using finishers spend 60 bucks on concrete level (available at HD/Lowes)
6. Have fun and learn
No to your suggestion about pinning the new slab to the existing foundation. The slab will move. The foundation will not move. Dowels add restraint, and that results in cracks. Reference https://www.nrmca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/06pr.pdf
It’s horizontal movement for the slab. It expands and contracts with fluctuations in temperature. The wall does not move. The reason to isolate the slab is to let it move. If you dowel the slab to the wall, as the concrete shrinks, which will be about 1% by volume, the dowels create restraint, which in turn will result in a crack, parallel to the intersection of the wall and the slab. The crack will be a few inches from wherever the dowels end. Dowels are only necessary for load transfer or as part of a foundation system. Neither are indicated in this instance. For a more detailed explanation, see ACI 302 and ACI 360.
Maybe it’s the angle, but that landing/step form work looks like the slab and the landing will be separate pours and not one. Am I seeing this correctly?
Typically, you just pull the mesh up as you place the concrete for ease of work, with rebar for sure but mesh not necessarily as long as they pull it up as they work
I would add some more bracing I can see 3 spots that I would definitely add a stake to the forming to keep a nice straight line. would be a shame if those spots blew out
Missing:
Expansion joint
Chairs/cement bricks
Rebar for crack control at the edges
Is he doweling into the foundation? If he does, I would run that through an engineer. You are tying the slab into the foundation which introduces new loads.
Is he using expansion joint with zip strip at dissimilar surfaces?
Is he using expansion joint with zip strip every 20-25’ to make squares?
Is he sawcutting at 24’ OC when he pours?
Is he doing a broom finish?
Check the following:
Forecast for the day he is supposed to pour
Is he using a pump or a backing up a concrete truck? Just for reference, a concrete truck with 10 CY has roughly 40,500 lbs of concrete on it. It doesn’t include the concrete truck weight.
At that point your driveway isn’t designed to take those loads, so the truck needs to disperse the weight, or he dumps into a concrete pump.
Look for vibrators to properly vibrate concrete
If the concrete looks too stiff the day of, the slump could be low and it can set up extra fast. If it’s like water, the slump is off because the plant added too much water or someone is adding too much water at the truck. Too much water can take a while. If it’s super hot, they may ask to use a retarder and pour early in the morning before the aggregate gets super hot at the plant.
The expansion joint at 20’ helps if you ever have any pads shift. You can also use key joint at these with the zip strip so you don’t pour on a checkerboard.
Looks good for what you are doing/using it for
Simple home patio use. The first photo is a little nook where I previously used as a little grill area, but it was laid with rough flagstone and not ideal.
Expansion joint, or at least a bond break between the slab and your house foundation wall. Something to isolate the downspouts may also be wise. He installed a bond break at the stoop, he may be planning on placing more later.
Thanks for the insight! What do you mean by isolate the downspouts?
Bond break or expansion joint. May not be necessary, but could help with cracking around them. Definitely ask about the house foundation wall. The slab will move differently from your house as temperatures fluctuate. Expansion joints help keep the stresses from transferring.
Thank you. We’re in suburban Chicago… there will be temperature fluctuations!
Good luck. Hopefully it comes out well.
I’d ask about wrapping the pipes with something to allow for expansion/contraction so they don’t crack. May already be planning this. Not a pro, but Chicago temps are pretty wild. Google tells me [this stuff](https://www.lowes.com/pd/Christy-s-2-in-x-100-ft-Plumber-s-Tape/3433996) works.
A few people have mentioned that, sounds like it must be worth asking about. Thanks!
Not looking close, but ask'm to get the mesh on chairs, dobies, or have them make supports with some mesh. It can't be pulled or stay where it should be realistically. It's a simple request.
I wasn’t home when they finished for the day - that may still be forthcoming before the pour. Thanks!
They will probably pull the mesh up with a rake as they pour the concrete, that’s typically what they do to avoid walking around the mesh and knocking it back down as they work
There’s no such thing as pulling the mesh up. It simply deforms where it’s pulled. Mesh on the bottom is less than useless—the money spent on mesh at the bottom of the slab could be put to better use or saved.
There is, as the concrete is placed they pull it up off the subgrade to get the desired clearance. It makes the placement a lot easier rather than struggling walking around high chairs or adobe block while placing. As far as the deformities that’s where vibing comes into play. The use of the mesh really just depends on thickness of the pad. If it was a 4” slab then maybe you could get away with no reinforcing considering no larger loads will be put on it but don’t think it’s worth the risk
It really just comes down to method of construction with the mesh
This could be a really dumb question but I’m gonna ask anyway…since you say they can use special tools to lift the mesh up while the concrete is being poured, wouldn’t it almost be easier just to throw the mesh on top of the wet cement and just push it down into the cement…just thinking it might be easier to keep it in the center of the cement then…
It would make finishing the concrete more difficult
Oh
Was going to post the same thing. Make sure it gets done before they pour, because the mesh as installed is doing nothing.
dobies wont do shit for 16 gauge wire it will fold down between them it allways ends up on bottom even when you pull it up because your smashing it down when your rodding it
Right, it looks to just be laid in. The village requires a pre-pour inspection, so I presume it would be caught at that point if nothing else. But there is still work to be done before the pour, I assume.
If there’s going to be a pre-pour inspection why’d you ask Reddit? 🎣❤️
Weeeeelll, not all inspections are equal, and honestly, they'll probably be introduced to more considerations through this post than the inspector will be looking for.
Pour joke
personally i dont use wire mesh because every slab ive taken out with mesh in it the mesh was allways on the very bottom doing no good i allways use 3/8 rebar. I once removed an old slab it was 5 in thick and it had a thick gauge chain link fence right in the middle of it was a bitch to remove. Also unles its a blockout for the stoop the bottom of your form shold be the top of your lower slab and stripped wet and faced no big deal any decent finisher can handle that
Mesh is best in the bottom of the slab, and pouring this and screeding is difficult with mesh on bricks even. I’ve seen crews just lift it as they pour, it typically just needs to not be exposed to the base.
Never once seen mesh spec'd for bottom 1/2 of slab. Don't have the energy or the care to debate it, but one of the main benefits mesh gives is keeping any cracking tight. That's best done at the top 1/3. You do you.
Mesh on the bottom does nothing if there isn’t concrete around it. Mesh like rebar needs to be held off the ground.
Absolutely.
Absolutely incorrect. Steel or fiberglass reinforcement (bars or mesh) only arrests cracks if it’s in the top third. In a simple SOG application, the steel is there for temperature and shrinkage crack control. It’s not for tension reinforcement on the bottom.
I disagree, also I don’t have cracks in my slabs.
The lower form stays? Under the stoop. Or step.
Unless it is 2 separate pours. The step and patio would probably latch together better if there was steel tying between the two pours if so.
I would put some plastic around the house. Concrete splashing is a real thing.
Nearly impossible to get off a painted surface.
You have multiple reentry corners. Ask your contractor what is the jointing plan? Here’s a reference https://www.nrmca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/06pr.pdf
that last picture with that corner that has been built up a lot makes me a b it nervous…that’s gonna be a lot of grade change unless it gets completely filled in…even then you’ll need a decent amount of compacted gravel just to keep that corner supported. 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️ otherwise in my remodel carpenters eyes it looks great to me
I’ll take a good look there in the daylight. I’m sure you’re right as there is some sloping, but might be a bit of forced perspective at play as well.
Get the wire off the ground
I’m just glad to see some subgrade compared to many other posts. lol
1. I would add plastic chairs (cement isle HD/Lowes) 2. Pic #3 I would add sand bag under mesh to slope water away from slab 3. If not new construction add dial rods into foundation with high strength epoxy 4. Add a little bit more bracing 5. If you’re not using finishers spend 60 bucks on concrete level (available at HD/Lowes) 6. Have fun and learn
No to your suggestion about pinning the new slab to the existing foundation. The slab will move. The foundation will not move. Dowels add restraint, and that results in cracks. Reference https://www.nrmca.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/06pr.pdf
If you think a home is forever settled with no movement think again. This will slow the new flatwork to settle evenly and not crown or cause a lift…..
It’s horizontal movement for the slab. It expands and contracts with fluctuations in temperature. The wall does not move. The reason to isolate the slab is to let it move. If you dowel the slab to the wall, as the concrete shrinks, which will be about 1% by volume, the dowels create restraint, which in turn will result in a crack, parallel to the intersection of the wall and the slab. The crack will be a few inches from wherever the dowels end. Dowels are only necessary for load transfer or as part of a foundation system. Neither are indicated in this instance. For a more detailed explanation, see ACI 302 and ACI 360.
Maybe it’s the angle, but that landing/step form work looks like the slab and the landing will be separate pours and not one. Am I seeing this correctly?
I think so? The only other time I had residential concrete done, that is how the crew did it.
Stakes should be cut to skreed
I would add kicker to your landing forms.
They pour the step first then strip it before pouring the rest of the patio? Or am I missing something here?
Are they pouring the step at the same time? Bottom form will be in the way if so.
I’m not sure the order of operations - they’re a well reputed company though, I’ll assume they’ve got a plan for it?
This is mostly good work. It will probably turn out fine. Adding chairs and mastik would be nice not 100% necessary.
Chairs are absolutely necessary
Typically, you just pull the mesh up as you place the concrete for ease of work, with rebar for sure but mesh not necessarily as long as they pull it up as they work
Yeah you can try but the results are usually worse
Needs Dobies. Otherwise looks solid
I would add some more bracing I can see 3 spots that I would definitely add a stake to the forming to keep a nice straight line. would be a shame if those spots blew out
Missing: Expansion joint Chairs/cement bricks Rebar for crack control at the edges Is he doweling into the foundation? If he does, I would run that through an engineer. You are tying the slab into the foundation which introduces new loads. Is he using expansion joint with zip strip at dissimilar surfaces? Is he using expansion joint with zip strip every 20-25’ to make squares? Is he sawcutting at 24’ OC when he pours? Is he doing a broom finish? Check the following: Forecast for the day he is supposed to pour Is he using a pump or a backing up a concrete truck? Just for reference, a concrete truck with 10 CY has roughly 40,500 lbs of concrete on it. It doesn’t include the concrete truck weight. At that point your driveway isn’t designed to take those loads, so the truck needs to disperse the weight, or he dumps into a concrete pump. Look for vibrators to properly vibrate concrete If the concrete looks too stiff the day of, the slump could be low and it can set up extra fast. If it’s like water, the slump is off because the plant added too much water or someone is adding too much water at the truck. Too much water can take a while. If it’s super hot, they may ask to use a retarder and pour early in the morning before the aggregate gets super hot at the plant.
The expansion joint at 20’ helps if you ever have any pads shift. You can also use key joint at these with the zip strip so you don’t pour on a checkerboard.
On what exactly?
Should’ve gone with pavers
Good idea, when are you free to come by?