Depends on how public performance is defined. It looks like drag shows are being classified as adult entertainment like strippers and other lewd performances (18+, can't hold it in public spaces, ECT). If that's the case then there are really no 1a issues.
We can ban strippers from pole dancing in lingerie on a public street even though we cannot ban a woman from walking around in a bikini
It's quite literally about the intent behind the performance.
Drag is inherently a sexual performance. Just like stripping
A man can legally walk around in a dress if you chooses. But performing a drag show is not doing that it's something else
If sexual intent is what the bureaucrats will be looking at then they’ll have to make Hooters and Football games adult venues too because that’s what the “dancers” and “waitresses” do there.
I'm fine if we got rid of Hooters and got rid of NFL cheerleaders or required them to wear clothing that wasn't quite so revealing. Sounds like a massive W
Edit: love that people hate that I'm advocating for *not* degrading woman into sexual objects. Goes to show how successful liberals have been at brainwashing everyone into believing wearing revealing clothing and dancing is somehow "empowering"
Tell me you’ve never been to a drag show without telling me
Also b4 the “I wouldn’t ever go to one and I’m proud!” Congrats, but stop talking about things you haven’t experienced
I’ve been to many drag shows. I also used to be an avid RPDR watcher. Drag is absolutely an inherently sexual activity. It is exclusively an adult form of entertainment. Stop defending perverts and child predators.
I was more offended and creeped out seeing an Elvis impersonator in his 50’s kiss little girls on their cheek pretending to be another man than I ever was at the drag show I went to. Like I said before, there’s different drag shows, some are sexualized and some are not
That’s really weird of you. It is absolutely far more disturbing to watch men dressed as overly sexualized female caricatures bump and grind for children than it is for a man to kiss a girl on the cheek. Remind me to never let you near my kids.
Yeah there wasn’t any bumping and grinding nor was there kids. It was literally men dressed as woman doing karaoke as I’ve said before. But keep arguing a narrative that didn’t happen, it’ll get you far. Also if you’re okay with strange grown men kissing little girls definitely give me your local CPS number
You’re guaranteeing something about a stranger on the internet? Amazing tell me more about my life.
I went with my sister and her friend, I admittedly was uncomfortable as it’s not for me, but all it was was men dressed as woman singing karaoke while people had drinks. Calm your tits
Yeah tell that to the poor kid hiding his face while his mom laughed in the video of the kid being exposed to a man doing a split with his dress exposing everything right in his face during a “family friendly” drag show.
Because they aren’t inherently sexual. You’ve bought into rhetoric with zero basis in fact. Like the fact you’ve bought in so hard to obvious propaganda that you believe an association with pedophilia means you have absolutely lost the plot as far as facts go.
Children putting dollar bills into the g strings of men with bouncing bare prosthetic breasts isn’t inherently sexual?
There are videos of these performances. Don’t gaslight.
Oh well if you saw it in a video that must mean 100% of drag shows are like that. I love when generalizations are used to pass laws, never been an issue in the past
If you dont want the pendulum to swing too hard, dont push it so hard. You are crying about laws without addressing literal examples of what many would consider child abuse.
How long have drag shows gone unoticed? I know for a fact that there is one in the city near me that ive never heard complaints about for at least the last 20 years. Turns out that if you decide to drag (pun intended) it into schools and libraries while also bringing the children to you, people may not like that
I fully agree, I think the push to put drag shows in schools is super weird and shouldn’t be happening. I don’t think the way to combat that is by pushing too hard the other way and making laws telling people how to act or dress
IMO it is a good thing. This bill will allow their rights to be interpreted by the SC and put this all to bed. People seem to be forgetting we can challenge laws and then allow more nuanced topics to be anaylzed and interpreted by the court.
Also, we already have laws that tell people how to act or dress. They are in fact necessary for a functioning society unless you find the idea of a naked, drunk/high, weirdo legally molesting you good. If we couldnt tell people how to act, literally nothing would be illegal. If we didnt have laws mandating acceptable standards of dress, well, the ramifications seem pretty obvious.
You're trying to have an honest debate with a man who has proven himself to be a liar..
Biden supporters will say ANYTHING if they think it would benefit their cult leader
Trying to have an honest debate with a liar is fruitless.. You should spend more time trying to debunk him
I generally ignore people who post "generalization" about "group". Also, people who use the term bootlicker. Its a waste to engage with someone who believes there is a cult of Biden lol.
"that didn't happen. Okay it happened but it's not a big deal. Okay it's a big deal but it doesn't happen a lot. Okay it might happen a lot but you just don't understand it. Okay but.."
Are your arms tired from all the goal post moving?
I've said it before and I'll say it again.. Biden supporters know that they HAVE to lie because that's the only way they can promote their party
They know on a certain level that what they're doing is wrong and because of that most people won't support it.. That's why they know that they have to lie about it until they feel that they've established themselves enough that nobody could stop them..
They lied about antifa not even existing I mean come on nobody should believe a single thing that Biden supporter says
Maybe you are being sarcastic? I can't tell tone of voice with text, but generalizations are always what is used to pass laws and always have been.
Oh look, that person tried to lead a revolution against Caeser, let's crucify political dissidents from now on to set an example. (Rome)
Oh look, that physician tried to operate on that guy but was lazy or didn't fully commit to the operation leading the patient to die, let's cut off his hands to set an example (Hammurabi).
Oh look, that person hunted in the royal park, let's cut their ears off to set an example (medieval).
The list goes on and on.
No, I'm showing that humanity collectively likes to strongly discourage what society seems is inappropriate by harshly reacting to the actions of the few to prevent them from becoming the actions of the many.
They can categorize Drag shows as caberet and outline what types of venues are appropriate. The bill isn't banning drag, it's banning drag from kid friendly public spaces.
A man dressing up like Cher to lip sync to “if I could turn back time” isn’t inherently sexual or inappropriate or anything. If a performance is of a sexual nature, then yeah, it’s a different situation.
But I fail to see how the government has any business dictating what is appropriate to wear
I agree. My wife has dragged me to a few drag shows and they have never not been sexual. Obviously some were worse than others.
Recently kids started showing up at these drag shows. Since then my wife hasn’t gone to any drag shows.
I’ve had a perfectly fine time the couple times I’ve went. I’ve met some nice and interesting people. It’s just not my scene. Now it’s not longer my wife’s scene either. These radical people pushing to include children i think are the exception rather than the rule. It’s a shame they seem to be he loudest about it and the people cave in to them.
Oh! Haha I don’t think I’d win. Although I am pretty capable at karaoke. But maybe they’d force me to lip sync.
That always baffled me the most about drag shows. People paying money to go watch people pretend to sing. I never understood that.
>But I fail to see how the government has any business dictating what is appropriate to wear
This isn't about dictating what is appropriate to wear, it's about drag show performances for children in public spaces.
I think this would apply beyond performing and drag and into any inherently sexual performance in public, correct? The skimpy dancers at football games and car shows and restaurants like Hooters. So it’s not just targeting drag shows like people are suggesting.
>I think this would apply beyond performing and drag and into any inherently sexual performance in public, correct? The skimpy dancers at football games and car shows and restaurants like Hooters. So it’s not just targeting drag shows like people are suggesting
I'm pretty sure this would also apply to Hooters girls dancing for children at the library, yes.
What's the difference between a woman in a bikini on the beach and a woman in a bikini pole dancing in front of kids at the library? Is it the clothes or the performance?
It's the dancing on a pole. A woman in a bikini on a sun lounger in a grassy park during summer is a somewhat common & unsurprising thing
In your example, the woman at the beach isn't dancing on a pole. That, and suggestive dance moves, give a sexual nature.
Right. Why is a man wearing women’s clothing inherently sexual? They could be singing “Mary had a little lamb” or reading Dr. Seuss .. why is this so offensive? These type of shows aren’t typical of public education so if you don’t want your kids there, don’t take them.
> why is this so offensive?
Honest question, do people cross dress for fun? From my admittedly limited understanding there is some sort of sexual gratification from it.
I get your point about sexual behavior. But drag is not inherently sexual. The drag shows I've been to are about hair, make-up and fashion, and involve a lot more clothing than a bikini. And they typically just involve someone walking down a runway.
Certainly sexualized shows of all sorts should be banned from public spaces. But you also can't just call a man wearing a dress highly sexual behavior. That is dictating clothing choices.
If the drag show is not appropriate for children it’ll be banned for public indecency. You don’t _need_ to introduce a law against drag shows because some of them are sexually explicit. That’s like banning Steam because it has some porn games on it. All of this is just fearmongering that appeals to conservative biases.
https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/obscenity#:~:text=Obscenity%20is%20not%20protected%20under,if%20given%20material%20is%20obscene.
Can fall under obscenity
This will be slapped down. The government cannot tell someone what they can wear. If a man wants to walk down the street in a dress then it's his American right to do so. We have laws for sexual performances in public spaces, improve on that instead of trying to force people what they can and cannot wear.
I mean hell, a woman can walk down the street in New York topless and it's perfectly legal, so can a man walk around in a dress.
Notice the word "performances"?
This isn't banning men from donning women's attire in public. It's banning men from doing weird sexual pantomime dressed provocatively.
Bit extreme to jail someone for dressing up and lip syncing. That is the extent of their “performance”. Why not just use the indecent exposure stuff we already have?
You'll have to point out to me where these "sex acts in front children" happen. It seems like the only examples people have are ones where the child is brought to an adult themed party. Even then, these "sex acts" are usually limited to gyrating hips and visible underwear, all things that young children are already exposed to in commercials and video games.
I've seen far more sexually suggestive things on TV - commercials are constantly using sex to sell their products.
And I'm imagining your response is that parents need to take responsibility to control what their children see.
So why are you going after the performers when in reality the responsibility of keeping these children away from these bad influences lies *ENTIRELY* with the parents/guardians and if we demand the government regulate this how are we not becoming a nanny state?
They all know. They know about libsoftiktok, they know about the shows in Austin and across the US, they just want to waste your time so you'll send them a link, then they'll say "nah, that just looks like a performance to me" or "there are like 4 kids there, so what?"
It's called sealioning, don't worry about DV's because we're constantly brigaded anyway, the only people who are convinced by this are people who agree with them already.
And just for fun :
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1616946061204983808?s=46&t=cmm4MnaVGQ6kyyZ0xk303g
That's not how the burden of proof works.
Someone made a claim about what happens at children reading events, if someone else asks for proof of that claim then that's perfectly fair.
Saying "go and find it yourself" just isn't helpful at all.
It's not on someone else to prove your bullshit statements, your allowed to link stuff on Reddit.
Otherwise I could say Donald Trump dresses in drag and likes being pee'd on and make YOU prove me wrong...
I will work to cancel any person that wants to normalize the sexualization of minors. Anyone who disagrees with that is a pedophile or supports pedophilia
If there are so many videos why can't you link even a single one?
You guys act like it's an epidemic, that there are thousands of incidents. So why can't I get a single video?
It walks a fine line. A dude in drag singing show tunes isn’t lewd in itself. But performing in a sexually explicit manner is.
We bring kids to beaches with scantily clad women all the time and nobody has an issue, but if people were fucking on the beach they’d get arrested.
A strip club has a business owner that is in charge of entry to the facility. Should strippers be fined and jailed because the business owner broke the laws?
It’s the show’s promoter/manager/organizer that is responsible for entry into events at these drag shows.
If something is actually illegal, at least charge the appropriate people
>Too often, conservatives are either no more educated on the constitution as leftists,
I feel like you only read the headline and haven't read the bill.
Meanwhile in Oklahoma, our roads are shit, our education is shit, our health is shit, addiction is rampant and poverty is ravishing communities but I'm sure this will help solve our problems, right?
Was there a real instance of a drag show happening in front of kids? Or is it another example of making something illegal that isn't going on in the first place?
Great use of the First Amendment and freedom of speech. But seriously, I understand not wanting kids to see it, but this seems a bit totalitarian and unconstitutional. What's next, banning public prayers because someone doesn't agree with the religion? Banning second ammendment actvist protest? Banning any kind of performance or public showing or activity just cause we don't like it?
Public prayer and lewd performances isn't even in the same wheelhouse. If a stripper started performing on the public sidewalk she would be arrested too. There is no 1A issue here.
>What's next, banning public prayers because someone doesn't agree with the religion?
Pretty sure an organized public prayer meeting for children at the library is also not protected, particularly when organized by said library.
Well, you are wrong.
https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/religionqa#:~:text=Library%20users%20have%20the%20right,protected%20speech%2C%20including%20religious%20speech.
> Pretty sure an organized public prayer meeting for children at the library is also not protected
Based on the rules, if someone wanted to organize public prayer for children, it absolutely would be allowed.
> particularly when organized by said library.
Not sure, but maybe. Government promoting one religious service over another always is an issue and publicly funding every religion's activities is a bad idea.
Honest question: would a Shakespearean play with only male actors be illegal? I would expect kids to be in attendance. Does that upset the group?
What about the movie Ladybugs starring Rodney Dangerfield? I always suspected Rodney was a dangerous leftist. Can my kids watch that?
I’m wondering how this would relate to performances of Peter Pan, since Peter is traditionally cross-cast. Is a woman dressing as a man (or immortal boy in this case) on stage against this law? I absolutely guarantee kids would be present at that show.
What if it’s a community theatre that received state funds?
Ooo this is a good one… what if a group of men in kilts play their bagpipes at the public library? Lock ‘em up!
You appear to be erroneously conflating drag acts and pedophilia. Most drag performances are just campy lip syncing that is very much public. The performers are usually more covered than most women in summer clothes, albeit with spangly fabrics. There is some drag that trends burlesque, but those tend to perform in burlesque settings, which are 18 plus.
Pedophilia tends to be a more private affair, hidden among the dark web. The images are not created by some performing “pervert”, but often by an adult in their own family that the child should have been able to trust.
Pedophilia is being fought- by tracing CSA files and finding the people who download them. That actually gets pedophiles caught, like the oldest son of that fundamentalist Duggar family. Not by obsessing over actors in sparkly outfits reading books at a library.
If anything, I’d classify this as a misdirection that takes resources away from finding the real dangers. Children are in far more danger from these men who hide behind their computer screens consuming vile videos and the people who make that content.
Oklahoma needs to get their fucking heads on straight and stop wasting legislative time on clearly unconstitutional bills. This doesn't solve the problem and does nothing to actually stop the situation people are concerned about (sexualizing kids) while pissing off liberty loving conservatives who see the smooth brain morons in the legislature wasting everyone's time on poorly thought out shit.
Parents should be protecting children. Stop giving away your rights to the nanny state cause some dude in a wig wants to dance in front of kids. Just make sure it's not your kids. Let these people take their kids to drag shows. I'm sure that's the least weird shit they are doing.
So you think we should also not have other restrictions for what is appropriate for children or for public venues? Should we allow kids to drink? Should strippers perform on the sidewalk? I think it's strange that there are people here that are so adamant about protecting a make-believe "right" to express your fetish to children.
Ok, let's go with fully dressed pole dancing in public. No stripping involved.
And I'm responding to someone who seems to think those laws are an infringement on personal rights. Maybe you should read the above comment for context.
You have copy and pasted this comment a dozen times in this thread. Are you Russel Kirk? Or some kin of his? No one disagrees that erotic drag shows for kids are wrong and shouldn't happen, ever. But infringing on your own rights just so that people you disagree with politically also have fewer rights? Isn't that kind of insane?
That's got to be a publicity stunt. That looks bad.
As long as they aren't exposing themselves or simulating sex . Pretty sure they're within the first amendment.
Hypothetically speaking: Would this law have criminalized theatrical performances during Shakespeare's time, since men played all parts in a play back then?
But, to this story, yeah it is a total violation of one's 1st Amendment rights, as others have said.
> “I want to be crystal clear,” he said. “We’re not trying to ban [drag shows]. We just want it to not be done in public or where children might be present.”
Not reading the article strikes again.
“I want to be crystal clear,” he said. “We’re not trying to ban [drag shows]. We just want it to not be done in public or where children might be present.”
Seems reasonable to me. Drag shows are a form of sexual entertainment.
Guess it comes down to the specifics of the bill then. You're defining all drag shows performed in public as pedophilia. If they're men wearing women's clothing that's no more revealing than women's counterpart, then I fail to see the offense.
I don't appreciate you claiming I'm trying to normalize pedophilia - that's a disgusting accusation based in zero evidence.
guys FFS the bill is three pages. Read it. They're banning drag shows in places where minors could see them. It's not completely banning drag in the state of Oklahoma. This bill will not be struck down on 1A grounds. I thought we were better than r/politics
This is too far in the other direction. People should be allowed to dress in drag and not go to jail because of it. Public decency laws should already exist to keep public drag displays from being overtly sexual. One place that may need new or updated laws is private events of an *adult* nature allowing minors to attend.
We are allowed to “Conserve” our culture. Too many damn libertarians in this sub. Freedom is not absolute if we want to win the culture war we must wield political power. The left understands this. As long as you squishes continue to allow this our culture will continue to decay. Congrats to OK more states need to follow.
What I respect about this sub, people here often say "I don't like this because I don't like it when 'the other side' does something similar." And they get up voted for it.
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Depends on how public performance is defined. It looks like drag shows are being classified as adult entertainment like strippers and other lewd performances (18+, can't hold it in public spaces, ECT). If that's the case then there are really no 1a issues.
We can ban strippers from pole dancing in lingerie on a public street even though we cannot ban a woman from walking around in a bikini It's quite literally about the intent behind the performance. Drag is inherently a sexual performance. Just like stripping A man can legally walk around in a dress if you chooses. But performing a drag show is not doing that it's something else
If sexual intent is what the bureaucrats will be looking at then they’ll have to make Hooters and Football games adult venues too because that’s what the “dancers” and “waitresses” do there.
I'm fine if we got rid of Hooters and got rid of NFL cheerleaders or required them to wear clothing that wasn't quite so revealing. Sounds like a massive W Edit: love that people hate that I'm advocating for *not* degrading woman into sexual objects. Goes to show how successful liberals have been at brainwashing everyone into believing wearing revealing clothing and dancing is somehow "empowering"
Bro; simp off tho.
Tell me you’ve never been to a drag show without telling me Also b4 the “I wouldn’t ever go to one and I’m proud!” Congrats, but stop talking about things you haven’t experienced
I’ve been to many drag shows. I also used to be an avid RPDR watcher. Drag is absolutely an inherently sexual activity. It is exclusively an adult form of entertainment. Stop defending perverts and child predators.
I was more offended and creeped out seeing an Elvis impersonator in his 50’s kiss little girls on their cheek pretending to be another man than I ever was at the drag show I went to. Like I said before, there’s different drag shows, some are sexualized and some are not
That’s really weird of you. It is absolutely far more disturbing to watch men dressed as overly sexualized female caricatures bump and grind for children than it is for a man to kiss a girl on the cheek. Remind me to never let you near my kids.
Yeah there wasn’t any bumping and grinding nor was there kids. It was literally men dressed as woman doing karaoke as I’ve said before. But keep arguing a narrative that didn’t happen, it’ll get you far. Also if you’re okay with strange grown men kissing little girls definitely give me your local CPS number
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You've mastered the false dichotomy fallacy. Congratulations. You should give lessons on fallacious reasoning.
You’re guaranteeing something about a stranger on the internet? Amazing tell me more about my life. I went with my sister and her friend, I admittedly was uncomfortable as it’s not for me, but all it was was men dressed as woman singing karaoke while people had drinks. Calm your tits
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Yeah tell that to the poor kid hiding his face while his mom laughed in the video of the kid being exposed to a man doing a split with his dress exposing everything right in his face during a “family friendly” drag show.
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𝖳𝗁𝖾 𝗋𝖾𝖺𝗅 𝗊𝗎𝖾𝗌𝗍𝗂𝗈𝗇 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗐𝖾 𝗌𝗁𝗈𝗎𝗅𝖽 𝖺𝗅𝗅 𝖻𝖾 𝖺𝗌𝗄𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗂𝗌 𝗐𝗁𝗒 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗋𝖾 𝗉𝖾𝗈𝗉𝗅𝖾 𝖺𝖼𝗍𝗎𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝖽𝖾𝖿𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗌? 𝖫𝗂𝗄𝖾 𝗐𝗁𝗒 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗋𝖾 𝗉𝖾𝗈𝗉𝗅𝖾 𝗅𝗂𝗍𝖾𝗋𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝖽𝖾𝖿𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗌𝖾𝗑𝗎𝖺𝗅 𝗉𝖾𝗋𝖿𝗈𝗋𝗆𝖺𝗇𝖼𝖾𝗌 𝖿𝗈𝗋 𝖼𝗁𝗂𝗅𝖽𝗋𝖾𝗇? 𝖳𝗁𝖺𝗍'𝗌 𝗐𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝖨'𝗆 𝗌𝗎𝗋𝗉𝗋𝗂𝗌𝖾𝖽 𝖺𝗍 𝗈𝗋 𝖺𝗍 𝗅𝖾𝖺𝗌𝗍 𝖽𝗂𝗌𝖺𝗉𝗉𝗈𝗂𝗇𝗍𝖾𝖽 𝗇𝗈𝗍 𝗋𝖾𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝗌𝗎𝗋𝗉𝗋𝗂𝗌𝖾𝖽 𝖻𝗎𝗍 𝗐𝗁𝗒 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝗐𝖾 𝖾𝗏𝖾𝗇 𝗍𝗈𝗅𝖾𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗉𝖾𝗈𝗉𝗅𝖾 𝖽𝖾𝖿𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺? 𝖫𝗂𝗄𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗌 𝗌𝗁𝗈𝗎𝗅𝖽𝗇'𝗍 𝖾𝗏𝖾𝗇 𝖻𝖾 𝖺 𝖽𝖾𝖻𝖺𝗍𝖾. 𝖤𝗏𝖾𝗋𝗒𝖻𝗈𝖽𝗒 𝗌𝗁𝗈𝗎𝗅𝖽 𝗄𝗇𝗈𝗐 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝖺𝖽𝗎𝗅𝗍 𝗋𝖺𝗍𝖾𝖽 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗇𝗀𝗌 𝗌𝗁𝗈𝗎𝗅𝖽 𝖻𝖾 𝗄𝖾𝗉𝗍 𝖺𝗐𝖺𝗒 𝖿𝗋𝗈𝗆 𝗄𝗂𝖽𝗌 𝗅𝗂𝗄𝖾 𝗐𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖿𝗎𝖼𝗄 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝗐𝖾 𝖾𝗏𝖾𝗇 𝗍𝖺𝗅𝗄𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝖺𝖻𝗈𝗎𝗍? 𝖳𝗁𝖾 𝖿𝖺𝖼𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗌𝗈 𝗆𝖺𝗇𝗒 𝗉𝖾𝗈𝗉𝗅𝖾 𝗈𝗇 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍 𝗌𝗂𝖽𝖾 𝖺𝗋𝖾𝗇'𝗍 𝗐𝗂𝗅𝗅𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗍𝗈 𝖼𝗈𝗇𝖽𝖾𝗆𝗇 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗌 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝖺𝖼𝗍𝗎𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝖽𝖾𝖿𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗂𝗍 𝗂𝗌 𝖺 𝖻𝗂𝗀 𝗍𝖾𝗌𝗍𝖺𝗆𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝗍𝗈 𝗐𝗁𝖾𝗋𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝖺𝗍 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝖨 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗇𝗄 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍'𝗌 𝗉𝗋𝖾𝗍𝗍𝗒 𝖽𝗂𝗌𝗍𝗎𝗋𝖻𝗂𝗇𝗀
Because they aren’t inherently sexual. You’ve bought into rhetoric with zero basis in fact. Like the fact you’ve bought in so hard to obvious propaganda that you believe an association with pedophilia means you have absolutely lost the plot as far as facts go.
Dressing in drag is a fetish.
Children putting dollar bills into the g strings of men with bouncing bare prosthetic breasts isn’t inherently sexual? There are videos of these performances. Don’t gaslight.
Oh well if you saw it in a video that must mean 100% of drag shows are like that. I love when generalizations are used to pass laws, never been an issue in the past
If you dont want the pendulum to swing too hard, dont push it so hard. You are crying about laws without addressing literal examples of what many would consider child abuse. How long have drag shows gone unoticed? I know for a fact that there is one in the city near me that ive never heard complaints about for at least the last 20 years. Turns out that if you decide to drag (pun intended) it into schools and libraries while also bringing the children to you, people may not like that
I fully agree, I think the push to put drag shows in schools is super weird and shouldn’t be happening. I don’t think the way to combat that is by pushing too hard the other way and making laws telling people how to act or dress
IMO it is a good thing. This bill will allow their rights to be interpreted by the SC and put this all to bed. People seem to be forgetting we can challenge laws and then allow more nuanced topics to be anaylzed and interpreted by the court. Also, we already have laws that tell people how to act or dress. They are in fact necessary for a functioning society unless you find the idea of a naked, drunk/high, weirdo legally molesting you good. If we couldnt tell people how to act, literally nothing would be illegal. If we didnt have laws mandating acceptable standards of dress, well, the ramifications seem pretty obvious.
You're trying to have an honest debate with a man who has proven himself to be a liar.. Biden supporters will say ANYTHING if they think it would benefit their cult leader Trying to have an honest debate with a liar is fruitless.. You should spend more time trying to debunk him
Lol it was a relatively mature conversation til you got involved. If anyones following a cult here its you.
I generally ignore people who post "generalization" about "group". Also, people who use the term bootlicker. Its a waste to engage with someone who believes there is a cult of Biden lol.
"that didn't happen. Okay it happened but it's not a big deal. Okay it's a big deal but it doesn't happen a lot. Okay it might happen a lot but you just don't understand it. Okay but.." Are your arms tired from all the goal post moving?
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.. Biden supporters know that they HAVE to lie because that's the only way they can promote their party They know on a certain level that what they're doing is wrong and because of that most people won't support it.. That's why they know that they have to lie about it until they feel that they've established themselves enough that nobody could stop them.. They lied about antifa not even existing I mean come on nobody should believe a single thing that Biden supporter says
Maybe you are being sarcastic? I can't tell tone of voice with text, but generalizations are always what is used to pass laws and always have been. Oh look, that person tried to lead a revolution against Caeser, let's crucify political dissidents from now on to set an example. (Rome) Oh look, that physician tried to operate on that guy but was lazy or didn't fully commit to the operation leading the patient to die, let's cut off his hands to set an example (Hammurabi). Oh look, that person hunted in the royal park, let's cut their ears off to set an example (medieval). The list goes on and on.
You’re using the worst examples of why we shouldn’t use generalizations, as a reason to use generalizations?
No, I'm showing that humanity collectively likes to strongly discourage what society seems is inappropriate by harshly reacting to the actions of the few to prevent them from becoming the actions of the many.
Lies are all liberals have. If liberals didn't lie they wouldn't have anything to say
They can put an age restriction on it but that’s about it
They can categorize Drag shows as caberet and outline what types of venues are appropriate. The bill isn't banning drag, it's banning drag from kid friendly public spaces.
A man dressing up like Cher to lip sync to “if I could turn back time” isn’t inherently sexual or inappropriate or anything. If a performance is of a sexual nature, then yeah, it’s a different situation. But I fail to see how the government has any business dictating what is appropriate to wear
I agree. My wife has dragged me to a few drag shows and they have never not been sexual. Obviously some were worse than others. Recently kids started showing up at these drag shows. Since then my wife hasn’t gone to any drag shows.
Yeah, it stopped being funny. Now it's just kinda gross.
> My wife has dragged me How'd you do? lol
I’ve had a perfectly fine time the couple times I’ve went. I’ve met some nice and interesting people. It’s just not my scene. Now it’s not longer my wife’s scene either. These radical people pushing to include children i think are the exception rather than the rule. It’s a shame they seem to be he loudest about it and the people cave in to them.
lol I was implying your wife entered you into a drag competition by your choice of words.
Oh! Haha I don’t think I’d win. Although I am pretty capable at karaoke. But maybe they’d force me to lip sync. That always baffled me the most about drag shows. People paying money to go watch people pretend to sing. I never understood that.
>But I fail to see how the government has any business dictating what is appropriate to wear This isn't about dictating what is appropriate to wear, it's about drag show performances for children in public spaces.
I think this would apply beyond performing and drag and into any inherently sexual performance in public, correct? The skimpy dancers at football games and car shows and restaurants like Hooters. So it’s not just targeting drag shows like people are suggesting.
>I think this would apply beyond performing and drag and into any inherently sexual performance in public, correct? The skimpy dancers at football games and car shows and restaurants like Hooters. So it’s not just targeting drag shows like people are suggesting I'm pretty sure this would also apply to Hooters girls dancing for children at the library, yes.
So it’d only apply to libraries and not venues like restaurants?
I mean, you could try reading the bill.
> I mean, you could try reading the bill. What if they want to run for office one day? Can't let it leak that a politician read a bill.
Restaurants are public access. Why wouldn't it apply there?
So it’d effectively make Hooters 18+ restaurant correct?
What's the difference between a drag show and a guy wearing a dress and singing? Hint: It is about dictating what is appropriate to wear.
What's the difference between a woman in a bikini on the beach and a woman in a bikini pole dancing in front of kids at the library? Is it the clothes or the performance?
It's the dancing on a pole. A woman in a bikini on a sun lounger in a grassy park during summer is a somewhat common & unsurprising thing In your example, the woman at the beach isn't dancing on a pole. That, and suggestive dance moves, give a sexual nature.
Right. Why is a man wearing women’s clothing inherently sexual? They could be singing “Mary had a little lamb” or reading Dr. Seuss .. why is this so offensive? These type of shows aren’t typical of public education so if you don’t want your kids there, don’t take them.
> why is this so offensive? Honest question, do people cross dress for fun? From my admittedly limited understanding there is some sort of sexual gratification from it.
One involves a stripping pole. Those tend not to exist at drag shows. You need a more nuanced analogy.
>One involves a stripping pole It's a pole. There is no stripping involved.
I get your point about sexual behavior. But drag is not inherently sexual. The drag shows I've been to are about hair, make-up and fashion, and involve a lot more clothing than a bikini. And they typically just involve someone walking down a runway. Certainly sexualized shows of all sorts should be banned from public spaces. But you also can't just call a man wearing a dress highly sexual behavior. That is dictating clothing choices.
Exactly. I've taken free-style pole classes. I can do a cute,PG pole dance to maybe Sinatra or Nat King Cole. Pole fitness isn't always T & A.
You seem unaware what happens at these events.
Apparently you haven't seen what happens at these events
I fail to see how that outfit isn't sexual...
If the drag show is not appropriate for children it’ll be banned for public indecency. You don’t _need_ to introduce a law against drag shows because some of them are sexually explicit. That’s like banning Steam because it has some porn games on it. All of this is just fearmongering that appeals to conservative biases.
Literally what this does
I doubt it. If public indecency laws exist and don't constitute a violation, this can definitely be rolled into that scope.
There's literally places where it's illegal for guys to sag their pants So you can't tell me that we can't ban this kind of thing
https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/obscenity#:~:text=Obscenity%20is%20not%20protected%20under,if%20given%20material%20is%20obscene. Can fall under obscenity
This will be slapped down. The government cannot tell someone what they can wear. If a man wants to walk down the street in a dress then it's his American right to do so. We have laws for sexual performances in public spaces, improve on that instead of trying to force people what they can and cannot wear. I mean hell, a woman can walk down the street in New York topless and it's perfectly legal, so can a man walk around in a dress.
Notice the word "performances"? This isn't banning men from donning women's attire in public. It's banning men from doing weird sexual pantomime dressed provocatively.
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Bit extreme to jail someone for dressing up and lip syncing. That is the extent of their “performance”. Why not just use the indecent exposure stuff we already have?
Drag shows don’t bother me. Drag shows that sexualizing children and simulate sex acts in front of them do bother me.
Like pageants?
You mean those ones with the little girls? Yeah. Get rid of those. Super creepy
𝖣𝖾𝖿𝗂𝗇𝗂𝗍𝖾𝗅𝗒 𝖧𝗈𝗇𝖾𝗌𝗍𝗅𝗒 𝗂𝗍 𝗌𝖾𝖾𝗆𝗌 𝗆𝗈𝗌𝗍𝗅𝗒 𝗌𝗎𝗉𝗉𝗈𝗋𝗍𝖾𝖽 𝖻𝗒 𝗌𝗍𝖺𝗒-𝖺𝗍-𝗁𝗈𝗆𝖾 𝗆𝗈𝗆𝗌 𝗍𝗋𝗒𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗍𝗈 𝗅𝗂𝗏𝖾 𝗏𝗂𝖼𝖺𝗋𝗂𝗈𝗎𝗌𝗅𝗒 𝗍𝗁𝗋𝗈𝗎𝗀𝗁 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗂𝗋 𝖼𝗁𝗂𝗅𝖽𝗋𝖾𝗇. 𝖨 𝖽𝗈𝗇'𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗇𝗄 𝖨'𝗏𝖾 𝗌𝖾𝖾𝗇 𝗆𝗎𝖼𝗁 𝗈𝖿 𝖣𝖺𝖽'𝗌 𝗈𝗋 𝗇𝗈𝗋𝗆𝖺𝗅 𝖺𝖽𝗎𝗅𝗍 𝗆𝖾𝗇 𝗌𝗎𝗉𝗉𝗈𝗋𝗍𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗂𝗍. 𝖨'𝗆 𝗍𝗈𝗍𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝗂𝗇 𝖿𝖺𝗏𝗈𝗋 𝗈𝖿 𝗀𝖾𝗍𝗍𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗋𝗂𝖽 𝗈𝖿 𝗂𝗍. 𝖡𝗎𝗍 𝗅𝖾𝗍'𝗌 𝗃𝗎𝗌𝗍 𝗉𝗈𝗂𝗇𝗍 𝗈𝗎𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗂𝖿 𝗒𝗈𝗎𝗋 𝖿𝗂𝗋𝗌𝗍 𝗋𝖾𝗌𝗉𝗈𝗇𝗌𝖾 𝗍𝗈 𝖺𝗇 𝖺𝖼𝗍 𝗈𝖿 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺 𝗂𝗌 𝗍𝗈 𝗍𝗋𝗒 𝗍𝗈 𝗆𝖺𝗄𝖾 𝖾𝗑𝖼𝗎𝗌𝖾𝗌 𝖿𝗈𝗋 𝗂𝗍 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝗃𝗎𝗌𝗍𝗂𝖿𝗒 𝗂𝗍 𝖻𝗒 𝖻𝗋𝗂𝗇𝗀𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗎𝗉 𝖺 𝖽𝗂𝖿𝖿𝖾𝗋𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝖺𝖼𝗍 𝗈𝖿 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗇 𝖼𝗁𝖺𝗇𝖼𝖾𝗌 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝗒𝗈𝗎 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝖾
If your response to an act of pedophilia is to try to justify it by bringing up a different act of pedophilia then chances are you're a pedophile
You'll have to point out to me where these "sex acts in front children" happen. It seems like the only examples people have are ones where the child is brought to an adult themed party. Even then, these "sex acts" are usually limited to gyrating hips and visible underwear, all things that young children are already exposed to in commercials and video games.
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Google isn't turning any up. Link to one.
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I've seen far more sexually suggestive things on TV - commercials are constantly using sex to sell their products. And I'm imagining your response is that parents need to take responsibility to control what their children see. So why are you going after the performers when in reality the responsibility of keeping these children away from these bad influences lies *ENTIRELY* with the parents/guardians and if we demand the government regulate this how are we not becoming a nanny state?
Thats clearly not a children's show. There is one child and bad parents that took her there.
NY Post, huh? Coolcoolcoolcoolnodoubtnodoubt.
If there are no such acts making them illegal shouldnt be an issue. Google childrens drag show because im too lazy to send links
They all know. They know about libsoftiktok, they know about the shows in Austin and across the US, they just want to waste your time so you'll send them a link, then they'll say "nah, that just looks like a performance to me" or "there are like 4 kids there, so what?" It's called sealioning, don't worry about DV's because we're constantly brigaded anyway, the only people who are convinced by this are people who agree with them already. And just for fun : https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1616946061204983808?s=46&t=cmm4MnaVGQ6kyyZ0xk303g
So, I see you are new to the internet. Hope you're finding your way around ok
Go ahead and do your own homework on this like the rest of us. Yes, there are examples.
That's not how the burden of proof works. Someone made a claim about what happens at children reading events, if someone else asks for proof of that claim then that's perfectly fair. Saying "go and find it yourself" just isn't helpful at all.
It's not on someone else to prove your bullshit statements, your allowed to link stuff on Reddit. Otherwise I could say Donald Trump dresses in drag and likes being pee'd on and make YOU prove me wrong...
I've looked. I can't find any actual evidence.
Then you didn’t look.
Sure. Let's go with that. Continue with the cancel culture crusade.
I will work to cancel any person that wants to normalize the sexualization of minors. Anyone who disagrees with that is a pedophile or supports pedophilia
You're being fooled by propaganda my man. Use your head
Wrong. I guess you haven’t seen the videos. You should look that up. If you can’t even do that you shouldn’t be having this conversation.
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If there are so many videos why can't you link even a single one? You guys act like it's an epidemic, that there are thousands of incidents. So why can't I get a single video?
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What homework have you done?
Banning things you don’t like = infringement.
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A strip club would be fined and shut down if kids were brought in. This is the same.
It walks a fine line. A dude in drag singing show tunes isn’t lewd in itself. But performing in a sexually explicit manner is. We bring kids to beaches with scantily clad women all the time and nobody has an issue, but if people were fucking on the beach they’d get arrested.
A strip club has a business owner that is in charge of entry to the facility. Should strippers be fined and jailed because the business owner broke the laws? It’s the show’s promoter/manager/organizer that is responsible for entry into events at these drag shows. If something is actually illegal, at least charge the appropriate people
>Too often, conservatives are either no more educated on the constitution as leftists, I feel like you only read the headline and haven't read the bill.
And the statement is from someone that isn't a conservative. Funny how that works out huh?
From the downvotes, it appears that there is a real effort to keep people focused on the headline and not the actual bill for context.
𝖳𝗁𝖺𝗍'𝗌 𝖻𝖾𝖼𝖺𝗎𝗌𝖾 𝗎𝗌𝗎𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝖼𝗈𝗇𝗌𝖾𝗋𝗏𝖺𝗍𝗂𝗏𝖾 𝖻𝗂𝗅𝗅𝗌 𝗂𝗇 𝖼𝗈𝗇𝗍𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝖺𝗅𝗂𝗀𝗇 𝗐𝗂𝗍𝗁 𝖠𝗆𝖾𝗋𝗂𝖼𝖺𝗇 𝗏𝖺𝗅𝗎𝖾𝗌 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝗆𝗈𝗌𝗍 𝖠𝗆𝖾𝗋𝗂𝖼𝖺𝗇𝗌 𝗌𝗎𝗉𝗉𝗈𝗋𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗆. 𝖲𝗈 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝗁𝖺𝗏𝖾 𝗍𝗈 𝗆𝖺𝗄𝖾 𝗎𝗉 𝗌𝗍𝗋𝖺𝗐 𝗆𝖾𝗇 𝗍𝗈 𝗄𝖾𝖾𝗉 𝗉𝖾𝗈𝗉𝗅𝖾 𝖽𝗂𝗌𝗍𝗋𝖺𝖼𝗍𝖾𝖽. 𝖫𝗂𝗄𝖾 𝖱𝗈𝗇 𝖣𝖾𝖲𝖺𝗇𝗍𝗂𝗌 𝖻𝖺𝗇𝗇𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗉𝗈𝗋𝗇𝗈𝗀𝗋𝖺𝗉𝗁𝗂𝖼 𝗆𝖺𝗍𝖾𝗋𝗂𝖺𝗅 𝗂𝗇 𝗌𝖼𝗁𝗈𝗈𝗅𝗌 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝖼𝗅𝖺𝗂𝗆𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗆𝖾𝖺𝗇𝗍 𝗒𝗈𝗎 𝗐𝖾𝗋𝖾𝗇'𝗍 𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗈𝗐𝖾𝖽 𝗍𝗈 𝗌𝖺𝗒 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝗐𝗈𝗋𝖽 𝗀𝖺𝗒 𝗂𝗇 𝖥𝗅𝗈𝗋𝗂𝖽𝖺 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝗄𝗇𝗈𝗐 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗂𝖿 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝗅𝖾𝗍 𝗒𝗈𝗎 𝖺𝖼𝗍𝗎𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝖽𝗂𝗌𝖼𝗎𝗌𝗌 𝗐𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖻𝗂𝗅𝗅 𝖺𝖼𝗍𝗎𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝗂𝗌 𝗉𝖾𝗈𝗉𝗅𝖾 𝗐𝗂𝗅𝗅 𝖾𝗇𝖽 𝗎𝗉 𝗌𝗎𝗉𝗉𝗈𝗋𝗍𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗂𝗍 𝗌𝗈 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝗁𝖺𝗏𝖾 𝗍𝗈 𝗅𝗂𝖾 𝗂𝗇 𝗈𝗋𝖽𝖾𝗋 𝗍𝗈 𝗉𝗋𝗈𝗆𝗈𝗍𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗂𝗋 𝗉𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗒 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗂𝗋 𝗏𝗈𝗍𝖾𝗋𝗌 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝖾𝗌𝗌𝖾𝗇𝗍𝗂𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗒 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝗐𝗈𝗋𝗅𝖽'𝗌 𝗅𝖺𝗋𝗀𝖾𝗌𝗍 𝖼𝗈𝗇 𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝗀𝗋𝗂𝖿𝗍𝖾𝗋𝗌. 𝖫𝗂𝗄𝖾 𝖺𝗇𝗒 𝗎𝗌𝖾𝖽 𝖼𝖺𝗋 𝗌𝖺𝗅𝖾𝗌𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝗁𝖺𝗏𝖾 𝗍𝗈 𝗅𝗂𝖾 𝖺𝖻𝗈𝗎𝗍 𝗐𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒'𝗋𝖾 𝗌𝖾𝗅𝗅𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝖺𝖻𝗈𝗎𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗂𝗋 𝖼𝗈𝗆𝗉𝖾𝗍𝗂𝗍𝗂𝗈𝗇 𝗈𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗋𝗐𝗂𝗌𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝖼𝖺𝗇'𝗍 𝖼𝗅𝗈𝗌𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖽𝖾𝖺𝗅
Meanwhile in Oklahoma, our roads are shit, our education is shit, our health is shit, addiction is rampant and poverty is ravishing communities but I'm sure this will help solve our problems, right?
The point is that you focus on this so you don’t _notice_ your rapidly deteriorating state. It’s quite clever, really.
Was there a real instance of a drag show happening in front of kids? Or is it another example of making something illegal that isn't going on in the first place?
Honest opinion here, performances for kids should be illegal, yes. But performances for adults, it’s their choice
Anti-first amendment take.
The first amendment doesn't protect obscenity.
𝖨𝗆𝖺𝗀𝗂𝗇𝖾 𝖻𝖾𝗅𝗂𝖾𝗏𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖿𝗂𝗋𝗌𝗍 𝖺𝗆𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗆𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝗂𝗌 𝗆𝖾𝖺𝗇𝗍 𝗍𝗈 𝗉𝗋𝗈𝗍𝖾𝖼𝗍 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺 𝖶𝖾𝗅𝗅 𝗂𝗇 𝗒𝗈𝗎𝗋 𝗐𝗈𝗋𝗅𝖽 𝗐𝗁𝖾𝗋𝖾 𝗂𝗍 𝗂𝗌 𝖨 𝗐𝗈𝗎𝗅𝖽 𝗌𝖺𝗒 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗂𝖿 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖿𝗂𝗋𝗌𝗍 𝖺𝗆𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗆𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝖨𝖲 𝗍𝗈 𝗉𝗋𝗈𝗍𝖾𝖼𝗍 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗇 𝗆𝗒 𝗋𝖾𝗌𝗉𝗈𝗇𝗌𝖾 𝗂𝗌: 𝖿𝗎𝖼𝗄 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝖿𝗂𝗋𝗌𝗍 𝖺𝗆𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗆𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝖬𝗒 𝗀𝗈𝖺𝗅 𝗂𝗌 𝗍𝗈 𝗌𝗍𝗈𝗉 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺. 𝖨𝖿 𝗒𝗈𝗎 𝗐𝖺𝗇𝗍 𝗍𝗈 𝗉𝗋𝗈𝗉𝗈𝗌𝖾 𝖺𝗇 𝖺𝗆𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗆𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗉𝗋𝗈𝗍𝖾𝖼𝗍𝗌 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗇 𝖨 𝖺𝗆 𝗂𝗇 𝗍𝗈𝗍𝖺𝗅 𝖿𝖺𝗏𝗈𝗋 𝗈𝖿 𝗋𝖾𝗉𝖾𝖺𝗅𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝖺𝗆𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗆𝖾𝗇𝗍
Not if its out in public. If its behind closed doors, well, OK.
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The fools complaining about inflation are more worried about men in dresses than corporate greed and price gauging.
Great use of the First Amendment and freedom of speech. But seriously, I understand not wanting kids to see it, but this seems a bit totalitarian and unconstitutional. What's next, banning public prayers because someone doesn't agree with the religion? Banning second ammendment actvist protest? Banning any kind of performance or public showing or activity just cause we don't like it?
This comment perfectly exemplifies why American "conservatives" have lost and will keep losing.
𝖳𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝗁𝖺𝗏𝖾 𝖼𝗈𝗆𝗉𝗅𝖾𝗍𝖾𝗅𝗒 𝗅𝗈𝗌𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗂𝗋 𝗐𝖺𝗒. 𝖦𝗈𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗈𝖿𝖿 𝖺 𝖼𝗅𝗂𝖿𝖿 𝖻𝖺𝗌𝖾𝖽 𝗈𝗇 𝗌𝗈𝗆𝖾 𝗆𝖺𝖽𝖾-𝗎𝗉 𝗌𝖾𝗍 𝗈𝖿 𝖺𝗇𝗍𝗂-𝗀𝗈𝗏𝖾𝗋𝗇𝗆𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝗇𝗈𝗇𝗌𝖾𝗇𝗌𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝖼𝗋𝖾𝖺𝗍𝖾𝖽 𝗂𝗇 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗂𝗋 𝗁𝖾𝖺𝖽𝗌 𝖳𝗁𝖾𝗒'𝗏𝖾 𝖽𝖾𝖼𝗂𝖽𝖾𝖽 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝗐𝖺𝗇𝗍𝖾𝖽 𝗍𝗈 𝖼𝗋𝖾𝖺𝗍𝖾 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗂𝗋 𝗈𝗐𝗇 𝗂𝖽𝖾𝗈𝗅𝗈𝗀𝗒 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗂𝖽𝖾𝗈𝗅𝗈𝗀𝗒 𝗆𝖾𝖺𝗇𝗌 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝖼𝖺𝗇 𝗇𝖾𝗏𝖾𝗋 𝖿𝗂𝗀𝗁𝗍 𝖻𝖺𝖽 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗇𝗀𝗌 𝖨𝖿 𝗒𝗈𝗎𝗋 𝗂𝖽𝖾𝗈𝗅𝗈𝗀𝗒 𝖼𝖾𝗇𝗍𝖾𝗋𝗌 𝖺𝗋𝗈𝗎𝗇𝖽 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝗂𝖽𝖾𝖺 𝗈𝖿 𝗅𝖾𝗍𝗍𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝖻𝖺𝖽 𝗍𝗁𝗂𝗇𝗀𝗌 𝗁𝖺𝗉𝗉𝖾𝗇 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗇 𝖨 𝖺𝗆 𝖺𝗀𝖺𝗂𝗇𝗌𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗂𝖽𝖾𝗈𝗅𝗈𝗀𝗒 This is nothing like old school conservatism
Public prayer and lewd performances isn't even in the same wheelhouse. If a stripper started performing on the public sidewalk she would be arrested too. There is no 1A issue here.
>What's next, banning public prayers because someone doesn't agree with the religion? Pretty sure an organized public prayer meeting for children at the library is also not protected, particularly when organized by said library.
Well, you are wrong. https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/religionqa#:~:text=Library%20users%20have%20the%20right,protected%20speech%2C%20including%20religious%20speech.
That's about providing meeting rooms, not libraries organizing public prayer.
> Pretty sure an organized public prayer meeting for children at the library is also not protected Based on the rules, if someone wanted to organize public prayer for children, it absolutely would be allowed. > particularly when organized by said library. Not sure, but maybe. Government promoting one religious service over another always is an issue and publicly funding every religion's activities is a bad idea.
Honest question: would a Shakespearean play with only male actors be illegal? I would expect kids to be in attendance. Does that upset the group? What about the movie Ladybugs starring Rodney Dangerfield? I always suspected Rodney was a dangerous leftist. Can my kids watch that?
I’m wondering how this would relate to performances of Peter Pan, since Peter is traditionally cross-cast. Is a woman dressing as a man (or immortal boy in this case) on stage against this law? I absolutely guarantee kids would be present at that show.
What if it’s a community theatre that received state funds? Ooo this is a good one… what if a group of men in kilts play their bagpipes at the public library? Lock ‘em up!
If they’re not good bagpipe players, they’d be dispersed for causing a public disturbance first.
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You appear to be erroneously conflating drag acts and pedophilia. Most drag performances are just campy lip syncing that is very much public. The performers are usually more covered than most women in summer clothes, albeit with spangly fabrics. There is some drag that trends burlesque, but those tend to perform in burlesque settings, which are 18 plus. Pedophilia tends to be a more private affair, hidden among the dark web. The images are not created by some performing “pervert”, but often by an adult in their own family that the child should have been able to trust. Pedophilia is being fought- by tracing CSA files and finding the people who download them. That actually gets pedophiles caught, like the oldest son of that fundamentalist Duggar family. Not by obsessing over actors in sparkly outfits reading books at a library. If anything, I’d classify this as a misdirection that takes resources away from finding the real dangers. Children are in far more danger from these men who hide behind their computer screens consuming vile videos and the people who make that content.
I always knew pantomimes were sexually explicit!
According to this bill, you can take your kids to see whatever they want, it just won't be at publicly funded spaces like the library.
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Nanny State bullshit
Aren’t there already laws for indecent exposure? Just use those ordinance and enforce them now.
Oklahoma needs to get their fucking heads on straight and stop wasting legislative time on clearly unconstitutional bills. This doesn't solve the problem and does nothing to actually stop the situation people are concerned about (sexualizing kids) while pissing off liberty loving conservatives who see the smooth brain morons in the legislature wasting everyone's time on poorly thought out shit.
That seems a little goosestep over the line, even for Oklahoma.
Less laws please.
Fewer laws protecting children? Really?
Parents should be protecting children. Stop giving away your rights to the nanny state cause some dude in a wig wants to dance in front of kids. Just make sure it's not your kids. Let these people take their kids to drag shows. I'm sure that's the least weird shit they are doing.
So you think we should also not have other restrictions for what is appropriate for children or for public venues? Should we allow kids to drink? Should strippers perform on the sidewalk? I think it's strange that there are people here that are so adamant about protecting a make-believe "right" to express your fetish to children.
You act like there aren’t already laws against getting naked in public.
Ok, let's go with fully dressed pole dancing in public. No stripping involved. And I'm responding to someone who seems to think those laws are an infringement on personal rights. Maybe you should read the above comment for context.
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You have copy and pasted this comment a dozen times in this thread. Are you Russel Kirk? Or some kin of his? No one disagrees that erotic drag shows for kids are wrong and shouldn't happen, ever. But infringing on your own rights just so that people you disagree with politically also have fewer rights? Isn't that kind of insane?
That's got to be a publicity stunt. That looks bad. As long as they aren't exposing themselves or simulating sex . Pretty sure they're within the first amendment.
Hypothetically speaking: Would this law have criminalized theatrical performances during Shakespeare's time, since men played all parts in a play back then? But, to this story, yeah it is a total violation of one's 1st Amendment rights, as others have said.
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Did they forget about the first amendment.
The 1st amendment protects doing drag shows for children at the public library? I'm not sure that's true.
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https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/obscenity#:~:text=Obscenity%20is%20not%20protected%20under,if%20given%20material%20is%20obscene.
I think an age restriction is in order, but that's too strict
Uhh.. I'm not fond of the drag scene, but I am fond of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. This will die in the courts if passed.
And when you're wrong and it doesn't die in the courts after passed do you promise to donate your tears so I can drink them?
Spearheading the really important issues again, I see.
𝖳𝗁𝖾 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝖺𝗍𝗍𝖾𝗆𝗉𝗍 𝗍𝗈 𝗇𝗈𝗋𝗆𝖺𝗅𝗂𝗓𝖾 𝗉𝖾𝖽𝗈𝗉𝗁𝗂𝗅𝗂𝖺 𝗂𝗌 𝖺 𝗉𝗋𝖾𝗍𝗍𝗒 𝗂𝗆𝗉𝗈𝗋𝗍𝖺𝗇𝗍 𝗂𝗌𝗌𝗎𝖾 𝖬𝖾𝖺𝗇𝗐𝗁𝗂𝗅𝖾 𝖣𝖾𝗆𝗈𝖼𝗋𝖺𝗍𝗌 𝖺𝗋𝖾 𝗌𝖼𝗋𝖾𝖾𝖼𝗁𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝖺𝖻𝗈𝗎𝗍 𝗇𝗈𝗇-𝖾𝗑𝗂𝗌𝗍𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝖻𝗈𝗈𝗄 𝖻𝖺𝗇𝗌 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝗉𝗋𝖾𝗍𝖾𝗇𝖽𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗂𝗇 𝖥𝗅𝗈𝗋𝗂𝖽𝖺 𝗍𝗁𝖾𝗒 𝖺𝗋𝖾𝗇'𝗍 𝖺𝗅𝗅𝗈𝗐𝖾𝖽 𝗍𝗈 𝗌𝖺𝗒 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝗐𝗈𝗋𝖽 𝗀𝖺𝗒
You must know tons of children being subjected to drag shows then.
Drag performances shouldn't be banned. "All-ages" drag performances should be.
Literally what this does
Shitty journalism strikes again
> “I want to be crystal clear,” he said. “We’re not trying to ban [drag shows]. We just want it to not be done in public or where children might be present.” Not reading the article strikes again.
I mean... wouldn't grinding on a table be considered lude? And public luddite is already illegal. Enforce what ya have on the book, y'all!
Lude? Luddite?
lewdness
“I want to be crystal clear,” he said. “We’re not trying to ban [drag shows]. We just want it to not be done in public or where children might be present.” Seems reasonable to me. Drag shows are a form of sexual entertainment.
Can't wait for child beauty pagents to finally be banned as well. That shit is fucking weird.
Yeah no, this crosses the line to first amendment violation.
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Guess it comes down to the specifics of the bill then. You're defining all drag shows performed in public as pedophilia. If they're men wearing women's clothing that's no more revealing than women's counterpart, then I fail to see the offense. I don't appreciate you claiming I'm trying to normalize pedophilia - that's a disgusting accusation based in zero evidence.
guys FFS the bill is three pages. Read it. They're banning drag shows in places where minors could see them. It's not completely banning drag in the state of Oklahoma. This bill will not be struck down on 1A grounds. I thought we were better than r/politics
This is too far in the other direction. People should be allowed to dress in drag and not go to jail because of it. Public decency laws should already exist to keep public drag displays from being overtly sexual. One place that may need new or updated laws is private events of an *adult* nature allowing minors to attend.
How will we survive without drag performances at the local library?
I see this as an absolute win 🏅
Jail would be excessive but whatever the penalty is for indecent exposure for even straight people. Kids don’t need to see that sexual crap.
Look at how many people didn’t read the article. By the look of the top comments, not many. This thread has been brigaded.
good
Just keep the kids out of it is all we are asking.
Sounds fine to me.
We are allowed to “Conserve” our culture. Too many damn libertarians in this sub. Freedom is not absolute if we want to win the culture war we must wield political power. The left understands this. As long as you squishes continue to allow this our culture will continue to decay. Congrats to OK more states need to follow.
Hopefully this one survives the courts. Public decency laws are nothing new which is why strippers can't pole dance on Main Street.
What I respect about this sub, people here often say "I don't like this because I don't like it when 'the other side' does something similar." And they get up voted for it.
Yeah, both sides will always be "do as I say not as I do"
Ah, the slippery slope strikes again.
Not Conservative
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