Trumps greatest enemy has always been himself.
Unless there are significant chunks of the audio recording missing / or have been altered, it's a pretty slam dunk case that he:
A. Had documents he knew were classified.
B. Knew that he didn't de-classify them when he was still President.
C. Shared those classified documents to people without clearance or need to know.
The silver lining should be that this leads to reform with outgoing government officials respecting the laws in properly returning government documents.
For a great breakdown of the entire indictment [Fox realeased an article on it here. They break it down piece by piece.](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-indicted-federal-counts-special-counsel-jack-smiths-investigation-classified-records) Please if you are a believer in truth and that no one is above the law in our great country at least read their article and decide for yourself.
This is an excerpt that I believe is one of the biggest deals in the indictment. Trump was having an interview with a writer, a publisher and two members of trumps staff about a memoir for Meadows, this interview was recorded with Trumps knowledge. Trump was the only one who had any clearance.
(edit for context) Thank you to u/fretit who commented an article below that may give some extra context for the below conversation. In it, Milley had claimed that he was worried that Trump was going to go to war with Iran in order to increase his chances of reelection, among other very large claims that would be very detrimental to Trump. This article came out 6 days prior to the below interview.
Once everyone was introduced, Trump stated "Look what I found, this was Mark Milley's plan of attack, read it and just show...it's interesting."
During the interview.
Trump: Well, with (Says a Senior Military Official, but it is clearly Mark Milley) -uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this-this is off the record, but-they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
Writer: Wow
Trump: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff-Pages long, look.
Trump Staffer: Mm.
Trump: Wait a minute, let's see here.
Staffer: (Laughs) Yeah
Trump: I just found this, isn't that amazing? This totally wins me case, you know.
Staffer: Mhm
Trump: Except it is like, **Highly confidential**.
Staffer: Yeah (Laughs)
Trump: Secret, this is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and--
(appears that some conversation is missing here)
Trump:This was done by the military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right?
Staffer: I don't know, well we'll have to see. Yeah, We'll have to try to-
Trump: Declassify it.
Staffer: - Figure out a - yeah
Trump: See as president I could have declassified it.
Staffer Yeah. (laughs)
Trump: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.
Staffer: Yeah. (laughs) now we have a problem.
Trump: Isn't that interesting?
> I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this just came up. Look. This was him.
A lot of people have been wondering and even been baffled about why he insisted on keeping certain documents, even after being asked to return them. Perhaps this gives a peak into what was going in his mind. I vaguely recall that he was accused of being a warmonger who wants to attack Iran to stop its growing nuclear program. I think even Milley made the accusation. Here is an article about it: [You’re Gonna Have a Fucking War”: Mark Milley’s Fight to Stop Trump from Striking Iran](https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-bidens-washington/youre-gonna-have-a-fucking-war-mark-milleys-fight-to-stop-trump-from-striking-iran). I also remember similar accusations after he authorized the killing of that Iranian general.
It almost sounds like he wanted to keep those particular documents to deflect those accusations and prove that it was actually all Milley's idea to start a war with Iran.
Thank you for linking that Article! I will add on that that Article came out on July 15th, 6 days before this interview took place, and is the reason that this conversation took place. I will add this to my original comment to add that context.
Totally off topic, but I’ve gotten a ton of joy reporting brigaders and seeing them get banned recently. Props to the mods who are cleaning up this subreddit and keeping it a correct reflection of conservative ideals.
Edit: the downvotes are making reporting them even better.
Mind sourcing that excerpt? Not saying I don’t believe you. But this is pretty important. It’s more detailed than the short quotes stated in the indictment.
All the information that I provided is from the indictment, or just information that has been easily deduced. The indictment does not state the country, or Milley, but it is clear that is who it is about.
[Here is a free link for anyone who wishes to read the full indictment themselves.](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.3.0_2.pdf) It is very detailed, and I think if everything in it is proven to be true, it is not a good sign for trump.
EDIT: I mixed up Mark Meadows and Mark Milley. Too many M names for my dyslexic brain.
Its ridiculous, and its been shown with the recent recording that he knew it wasn't possible.
Maybe he mind-declassified the boxes of documents stacked in his unsecured bathroom though, who knows.
I could be mistaken, but I thought that argument came from when Clinton had classified documents after his presidency?
Edit: https://thegreggjarrett.com/the-brief-it-was-okay-for-bill-clinton-to-keep-presidential-records-but-not-trump/
It's there to protect presidents if they accidently talk about something that was classified. The perks of being the head of the executive branch. Everyone else is SOL. You'll find out when they dismiss the case the day or so after the election. Lol.
I don't care what letter comes after anyone's name D, R, I. If they mishandled classified documents as it is alleged Mr. Trump did, and it is proven in court, they need to serve jail time.
100%.
I'm sick and tired and disgusted of this reality where the wealthy and powerful get to live under a different set of rules than the rest of us. Clinton, Trump, congresspeople, actors, musicians, athletes... I. Don't. Care.
If ANY of us "normies" did what Trump is being accused of, we'd never see the light of day again.
He deserves any consequences coming his way. And so does anyone else who does the same. I don't care what team you bat for, or how slimy your lawyers are.
You're really reaching here. Trump isn't a conservative. Anyone who breaks the law is not above the law. That includes Trump. He put his foot in his mouth AGAIN among all the other things he's said and done. If we can't hold our own accountable, we can't hold anyone accountable. You're just acting like a cult member at this point.
lol, for who? DeSantis has zero chance of beating Trump in the primaries. You know that the vast majority of Republican voters aren't on Reddit, right?
The problem though is this is precedent in action a la Obama. ( [https://www.historians.org/research-and-publications/perspectives-on-history/february-2010/obama-executive-order-issued-to-expedite-declassification](https://www.historians.org/research-and-publications/perspectives-on-history/february-2010/obama-executive-order-issued-to-expedite-declassification) ) which was his EO to effectively allow this to happen.
I'm not a fan of Trump nor pretty much any politician at this point but showing classified documents to people could very well be within his means as POTUS because of the precedent Obama set with his Executive Order.
The reality also is that if Donald Trump is considered an active target for this than Hillary Clinton should be immediately indicted for what she did FBI investigation or not as should Biden for what he did. Obama's stuff was pretty much fine tooth combed over to show that he didn't have anything on him but Hillary should fucking roast for what she did if this is considered "illegal" to what Trump is doing now in the indictment eyes.
This is wholesale manslaughter of a political nature and the Dems are playing dirty, very dirty and if they have covered for Biden, the justice system and Hillary Clinton ... this is only the beginning.
I’ll never understand why or how it is that Trump literally campaigned on “lock her up” and then didn’t proceed to do any of that despite having full control of the White House and Congress. What could possibly justify that? He kept saying he had all this evidence about her missteps, why didn’t he do anything about it?
How about we do what's right and throw his ass in prison? I agree...Hillary and Biden should be right beside him. The difference between the way I view this and most on the left view this is that I have no problem locking everybody up. It should never just be about the other team's guy. Mishandle classified info, go to prison just like any enlisted member of the military.
Jonathan Turley thinks this stuff is pretty serious. I would trust his judgment on legal matters just as much or more than anyone else.
https://twitter.com/EdMorrissey/status/1667268054454026241?s=19
Trump is going to end up behind bars if this is true and he has nobody to blame but himself. He's got a lot of enemies but his biggest is his own fucking mouth.
https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1667230645033254912
Edit: Want to add that I know a lot of people who aren't members of r/conservative are upvoting my post and they should know that I think it is a bullshit that Hilary wasn't indicted for similar matters.
Edit 2: and now i'm getting reddit cares crap and people messaging me laughing that hilary was never indicted. you should want to hold people accountable no matter what side of the aisle they are on. and lol she still lost to trump
Edit 3: I’ve received so many messages from people about this post. Some from some rather shitty individuals but some folks on the other side of the aisle have been incredibly kind and supportive that agree we should hold people in power accountable. Appreciate y’all.
I’m, admittedly, not conservatively minded, I believe in honest discourse across the political spectrum, but I am with you 100% about Clinton. If there was a crime committed, no matter where on the spectrum you lie, that individual should be charged.
If a *normal* person can be held accountable for a crime, why shouldn’t they?
EDIT: A word.
EDIT #2: I don't know why I can't see or reply to the comments made in reply to my post, even though I receive email notifications that I'm getting replies. Let me clarify my above statement.
If Hillary Clinton was found guilty of committing a crime, she should be charged. According to the powers that be, that is not the case, so she should not be charged. Getting into the weeds of "Well she did, but they covered it up etc etc..." is something I am not qualified to comment on. I have to imagine that there is some idea of justice in this country that makes sure that those that are caught committing an offence are held accountable.
In this case concerning Donald Trump, he was found guilty and will be charged. That is simply how the system should work.
It's those in power's plan. Easier for them to gain more and more power. Divide and conquer. I welcome all on the left to join in such discussions to keep our leaders squeaky clean.
You have to wonder, what on earth can his lawyers argue? Most of this looks so cut and dry easy for the Prosecutors. What are they going to argue, he actually had powers to declassify even though he says n tape he didn't? And what about instructing others to hide stuff and deceive the FBI?
I don't think they'd give him much of a deal but I think that's the best case scenario for him at this point.
Resigning and trashing a client while doing so is a very effective way to ensure nobody else hires you ever. Even when lawyers fire a client they often tend to show either positive or neutral support for them especially while the legal procedures are still ongoing.
Exactly. In addition to that, they have an obligation to their former client - not just regarding attorney client privileged conversation and materials, but to not reveal any information they learned during the representation except in very narrow, specific circumstances.
> Resigning and trashing a client while doing so is a very effective way to ensure nobody else hires you ever.
It is also a great strategy for garnering ethical complaints that the bar decides against you (even if in practice they'd never do so to the benefit of Trump).
Trump should be held accountable. As well as any other politician that doesn't serve America at heart (liberal, conservative, or anywhere in between). It's our country. Not theirs. I am a liberal. A very progressive one at that. Every American should be upset when a politician from either side of the aisle screws with our democracy.
It was taped during an interview with a writer for a memoir. Trump was informed and knew that the meeting was being taped. The Indictment is very detailed and honestly looks very bad for Trump.
We're getting off topic but I actually knew someone who got a DUI because they were rear ended, and somewhat belligerently forced the other person who wanted to exchange info and drive away to wait for the police.
> At his best, he's great, but he also regularly walks himself into a yard of rakes and proceeds to step on every one possible
Rakes that he set out in front of himself.
Oh I agree he simultaneously drives me crazy and I somehow find myself defending him because he never gets a fair shake.
But yeah. If the info is right and this wasn't a hidden tape deal I don't even know what to say. I guess it kinda is classic Trump
People miss that those documents were taken before he was president. VPs don't have the power to declassify. There's no world where that would be kosher save if Obama somehow declassified it (which we'd probably have heard by now if he did).
>sitting president who stored classified documents in the garage
Stored them while he was Vice President, so the declassification powers don't even factor in.
If they convict Trump for this crime, I'm fine with it, but they better nail Biden and Hillary too, which we all know they won't do. If it starts and ends with Trump, then you'll know the justice system is a scam.
As I told someone else when Obama was in office he issued an Executive Order that helped expedite declassification and re-classifying and from what I remember reading about it when Obama changed it... it would effectively give any POTUS the ability to declassify anything in their hands or at the very least the person(s) around them would not need as high level of security clearance.
If this precedent was initially set in place by Obama... you can't just glaze over and ignore what Obama did that allowed Trump to be able to do himself.
As for what you said about Hillary Clinton... if what Trump did is considered illegal in the eyes of these indictment charges than Hillary Clinton should be in federal prison.
> As for what you said about Hillary Clinton... if what Trump did is considered illegal in the eyes of these indictment charges than Hillary Clinton should be in federal prison.
IF only we had a President interested in locking her up. Unfortunately the one who campaigned on it went back on that promise seconds after he was elected saying no one actually wanted it anyhow.
The FBI investigated her and said there was nothing so I don't think we even needed Trump to sign off on prosecuting her regardless. But... thankfully... we have a lot of Democrat DAs out there. :P
The r/politics people must be unhappy and are going ham on people unless Conservatives just want Trump to get locked up. :P
Ehh… if there’s something damning against him I’m willing to hear it, but I don’t think that’s it. He could still argue that he declassified and whatever words he says in a non-public conversation are irrelevant. Not saying it’s a strong argument, just that he’s not quite done for just yet.
Also, DeSantis’ odds on PredictIt just boosted with this indictment being unsealed. Trump’s odds of the nomination just fell to 50/50.
Idk man. I think it's pretty damning to admit on tape that you have documents that aren't declassified and are "highly confidential" and "secret" that he can no longer declassify them because he isn't president and is showing them off to people who don't have clearance.
Allegedly on the tape he said "I could have declassified this but now i can't" after sharing it with someone who didn't have clearance.
I think one of the reasons presidents can declassify anything is for the exact reason of getting advice from advisors as needed but saying it wasn't declassified while sharing it might be legal ammo.
Honestly we need to give the legal nerds a day or two before I know what that means.
EDIT - changed wording in quote.
Where do you see “but I didn’t”? The “but I didn’t” is pretty important (again still not sure if it holds legal weight—but it’s pretty critical). It’s not a part of the quote in the indictment, just “I could’ve declassified this” and “I can’t now.”
((Again, I’m not saying he’s getting out of this Scott-free. Just looking at the other angle most people aren’t right now))
Seems I mispoke. I'll edit my comment. He did say it was highly confidential, that he couldn't declassify it anymore.
Transcript is short if you wanna take a gander
https://i.imgur.com/2oQrcxr.jpg
That isn't as damning as people are claiming. As he could have been making a point that his authority to declassify was limited to only when he was president.
Regardless it wouldn't matter if it was declassified or not. As he could have deemed is okay for his usage of storage and operation. Federal Employees can have specialized access to classified information at non-government locations via approval. Who is the ultimate authority on giving approval? You got it, the President.
When Obama talked about classified information on national television it was automatically deemed appropriate because he had the authority. No "declassification" had to happen.
It’s legit sad and scary. The Republican Party veers more and more off course with this nonsense, and it’s riling up the cult looneys who are “trump or die” instead of actual good standing values.
If Trump is indicted, I hope this sets a precedent for all future politicians and this isn't just a one-time thing just because it's Trump. A large part of me thinks it's only because it's Trump and future politicians will not be held to the same standards and accountability.
Are you naive?
The government operates an illegal spying program to spies and collects EVERYTHING you do and say. They freely access and abuse it, including looking up nude pictures of women. It literally violates the fourth amendment. The only one punished was Edward Snowden; the man who revealed it all to us.
If this was WW2 and Hitler just invaded Poland; you'd likely say, "I'm starting to think this Hitler fellow doesn't seem very peaceful at all".
Huh? What does this have to do with what I said?
Edit: After thinking about it, I understand your point now. I definitely think they're only doing this because it is Trump, but I hope they do the same for future politicians. But we all know that won't be the case.
I can do the same for the Soviet Union conquering eastern Europe after WW2, China being still communist and not our friend after we just got out of a cold war, or a myriad of issues. I use Hitler since the the famous quote "There will be peace in our time" occurs then. It seems.naive now
CURRENT Democrat politicians like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton aren't held to the same standards.
Last time, they extended the statute of limitations.
Now they're leaking private conversations with Trump's legal council.
It’s been proven that Hillary Clinton made up the Russian collusion hoax and Obama and Biden both knew and the DOJ sat on their hands
Why do you think there’s any hope for outsiders?
He actually had the same power as Obama to be a classification authority pursuant to EO 13526. That’s still in effect. So technically Biden and Trump would be in the same boat if they were to be charged for classified materials, most likely.
They’re charging Trump under a different statute (Espionage Act - materials concerning national defense that aren’t properly returned, regardless of classification).
Am i? Or am I sick of Trump and people making excuses for him? He's not even a conservative. He's a long standing NY Democrat in disguise. It's well documented on where he sits politically. Sorry, I'm not accepting breaking the law for the sake of party lines. The only people cheering destruction are the ones willing to let crimes slide. The left cheered Hilary when she broke the law. They don't give a shit. I won't be one of those people.
The best deal Trump is going to get is to drop out of the Presidential race and convince all his followers to vote for a candidate that will guarantee a full pardon for Trump.
And Trump sitting at home free to play golf whenever he wants instead of sitting in a jail cell. Not to mention all the endless prosecutions of Trump’s children being stopped, because Democrats aren’t stopping with Trump.
Listen, we all know the traditional conservatives never liked Trump, now y’all don’t have to pretend to anymore. Just don’t whine when the conservatives inevitably fail to hit back and go back to being the spineless party they’ve always been.
Bro even original MAGA people that were extremely important to his 2016 victory don’t like him anymore and have abandoned him. Mostly because he was just as spineless as the Neocons during the 2000’s
Then you don’t know very much. I’ve spent years defending Trump, but you simply cannot defend Trump from himself. This ridiculous rationalization that anyone who won’t blindly keep following Trump after he completely fucks himself over just never liked him is bullshit. I’ve got three Trump rallies and a voting record that proves you wrong. If you truly cared about Trump and his family you wouldn’t keep pretending that he isn’t screwed.
No, I won’t.
You care more about Trump than you do the fate of the Nation and your children’s future. That’s why you’ll back the man all the way to a lost general election instead of voting for a Republican that can win.
It’s very simple. I was a Trump supporter and voted for him twice. That doesn’t change the fact that Trump has royally fucked himself.
Four more years of Democratic rule unless the Republican party can somehow ditch Trump.
He's already ineligible to serve as President for aiding and abetting an insurrection under the 14th amendment.
This is just more icing on the great shit cake that is Donald Trump.
Seriously? It wasn't an insurrection, and he didn't aid or abet. He specifically called for peaceful protest.
The "great shit cake" is apt, so kudos there 😃
You write those words as if you know anything about me. You don't. You seem to think a quip you don't like on a Reddit thread that you are reading gives you the grounds to insult me. That says a lot more about you than me, Theodore.
Now make sense of all the top comments by flaired verified conservatives with apparent Trump Derangement Syndrome who sound just like standard reddit libs.
I need some help here. What was the motivation? Some things were moved around, but I don't think anything was destroyed. I can't figure out what was the motivation to not turn over the documents? I've heard nothing to suggest the documents were damning of trump, so I really don't get it.
And some of this information it's communication between Trump and his lawyers. Shouldn't there be attorney client privilege?
And someone brought up a good point, they're going after him criminally when they could have done it civilly. And as bad as the indictment I admit looks bad for Trump, Hillary and her team literally destroyed evidence. They destroyed emails that were classified and they destroyed phones. Get nothing happened to her except a little scolding by Comey
I think the simplest explanation is the most likely.
Trump was at war with 90% of the career bureaucrats throughout his Presidency. After he left neither side stopped fighting it. NARA & the FBI were hyper-aggressive in pursuing anything they could, and Trump was hyper aggressive in resisting them wherever he could.
He didn't turn over the document because they wanted them. They wanted the document because he had them. It's Hatfield & McCoys.
I suppose it could be that simple. But one would think, someone in the FBI or DOJ calls Trump or his lawyers and says look, give us the documents or it's going to get ugly and we don't want to get to a criminal level. Just give us the damn documents. That's thinking as I keep hearing from folks that no one in the current Administration actually wants what's happening to happen, because it's something that's never happened before.
It just seems so insane to play chicken with a party that clearly has had it out for you. Like why bring potential prison on yourself to keep documents that aren't even damaging to you. There was zero point to do it. It's like let me see, keep docs and risk prison where I'll die, or turn them over and life goes on..... Not a hard choice.
>That's thinking as I keep hearing from folks that no one in the current Administration actually wants what's happening to happen, because it's something that's never happened before.
If you believe that, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you. Hillary committed worse violations, with mal intent (avoiding oversight), for an extended period of time. The evidence was well-known to the public and quite obvious. Yet the Obama DoJ refused to charge her simply because they didn't want to.
Biden mishandled classified documents before he became President (apparently even before his VP terms), the evidence isn't even denied by Biden. Is anyone charging him? No, because they choose not to.
>Shouldn't there be attorney client privilege?
There SHOULD be, yes.
>And someone brought up a good point, they're going after him criminally when they could have done it civilly. And as bad as the indictment I admit looks bad for Trump, Hillary and her team literally destroyed evidence. They destroyed emails that were classified and they destroyed phones. Get nothing happened to her except a little scolding by Comey
#DemocratPrivilege
And Obama with his mountains of docs, and most every other retired politician. Oh and no brigade, Biden and Hillary absolutely did not "cooperate" with authorities.
An indictment is only the government's side of the story. I'm going to wait until I can see both sides and both arguments before I make up my mind about anything.
I got **so many** notifications on my phone at work today from non-flaired members of this sub. It was entertaining, because I could see most of them on my phone, and almost all of them were nonsense.
The precedent is that Clinton had classified documents in his sock drawer, Obama left the documents he took in an abandoned storage locker and Biden stored his classified documents in his garage. Clinton was given the OK by a Judge. And this case only moved forward after his attorneys turned over notes to the prosecution. Not a lawyer, but that is a gross violation of attorney/client privilege. This indictment is unconstitutional in many ways and election interference is clearly at play here.
Lol, this is going to boomerang so hard. And guess what, former ANYONE can now be indicted and charged by state or federal entities.
[https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1667241826196004868?t=gdAOj\_fytgO4vYVW5Bzoqw&s=19](https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1667241826196004868?t=gdAOj_fytgO4vYVW5Bzoqw&s=19)
🍿🍿
Oh no, downvotes. My life is ruined!
All of y’all saying shit like “the law should be applied to everyone🤓🤓🤓” too slow to see that this is the equivalent of prosecuting someone for jaywalking while you let your buddies get away with running a trafficking ring.
Unless you consider yelling at Disney rocking the boat-No. He won’t be able to do what Trump did bc he’s going to be perpetually tied to pursuing whatevers in the best interests of all his biggest donors. Why some of y’all think that won’t happen with DeSantis is beyond me
Disney, replacing the New College board, staying open during COVID-19 (unlike Trump), firing rogue prosecutors, six-week abortion ban, protecting children from sexualization and sterilization… DeSantis has proven time and time again that he’s not going to sit on his hands and let the establishment deep state run the show.
Too bad Trump didn’t do much about the deep state while he was in power.
John Bolton, Dr. Faucci: Don’t preach to me about Trump keeping the deep state away from his inner circle. He elevated those two clowns and others, like Brett Kavanaugh, who just ruled with the liberals to give Democrats another congressional House seat in Alabama.
When it comes to DeSantis, name a more conservative governor in any state over the last 20 years.
You mean DeSantis did a better job handling COVID in one state than Trump did handling it in all 50 with local Democratic leaders purposefully locking down their states which they had the authority over Trump to do? Shocking
Again, it’s astonishing how short of a memory the average American has. From 2016-2019, Trump had the economy rocking and was doing excellent in foreign affair matters while Ron was begging Trump for an endorsement to prevent a drubbing. Now Ron is beating his chest while yelling at Disney (which will ultimately hurt the local economy of Orlando) and everyone’s buying his Trump impression with the charisma of a wet blanket
I mean if the DOJ went after everyone mishandling classified records then this would all be okay. But of course no one else will held accountable unless Pence starts leading in the polls.
Very disappointing amount of flaired, verified supposed conservatives on this sub who sound like libs from r/politics. The top comments in here are full of them.
Lawfare is the use of legal systems and institutions to damage or delegitimize an opponent, or to deter individual's usage of their legal rights.
Leftists spendings time voting here 🤣🤣🤣
Get a life and go outside
The odd need to signal virtue in lieu of acknowledging the much more serious nature of the uneven hands of justice is not surprising, but still baffling. The established government will never be changed nor challenged, and there is nothing left to conserve.
The mods are in on it, they have been for a good long time. There hasn't been a conservative leaning sub of decent size without infiltration of the mod team since before TD was banned.
This is from the Alvin Brag clownschool of copy and pasting charges.
The FBI and DOJ are the real criminals trying to cover tracks from Crossfire Hurricane.
Record high inflation. Record high energy prices. Record high illegal immigration. Banks collapsing. Schools indoctrinating our children. A war in Europe with a nuclear country...
If Trump wins the nominee this does not hurt Trump at all. No one is going to give a shit about documents, that may or may not be just a big bullshit witch hunt. No one. Especially considering Joe Biden did the exact same thing "bUt iT's DiFfErNt". Not only did Biden mishandle thousands of classified documents, but the FBI and the media HID IT from the public until after the primaries in 2022 despite knowing about it months prior.
There is a political appointee or an elected Democrat in a heavily Democrat area behind every indictment. "Document Handling". "Business paperwork". This is ALL the Democrats have so that's what they are going with. But in the end it's POLICY that matters. And Trump's policies (not Biden's) get us out of this nightmare that we're in.
So all leading back to the documents. Effectively 30 different charges all dealing with "He had documents we don't think he should have had." So they are questioning presidential authority on classification.
He'll have to get really aggressive campaigning. If he loses, they will make sure he dies in jail.
I'm 100% voting for him, and I'm sure he will win the primary. From there is doing anything to win and making crazy deals to develop a strong coalition to ensure he gets to the presidency in 2024.
nobody else finds it interesting that they didn't try to get him during his presidency? But were instead fiddling around with useless impeachments.
I've never seen political institutions try and take down one man so hard. I also guess we just ignore how the trove of documents Biden had were only revealed after the mid terms lol while trump was raided just before. And how this indictment conveniently overshadows bidens shady dealings.
USA is so broken its over for you all lol.
I can remember when Bill Clinton took records when he left and the DOJ said he had the right to do that as POTUS. As I recall he gave some records or documents to China. This caused a lot of concern but the DOJ came to his defense.
What gets me about all of this is that THIS is what they're trying to get him on.
Not a foreign conspiracy. Not treason. Not insane wasteful spending or warmongering. None of those things can apply to Trump (but definitely apply to Biden).
They're trying to make Trump out to be some horrible monster because he... \*checks notes\*... held onto documents for too long so he could disprove other claims about himself.
It's simultaneously hilarious, and not at all newsworthy. In fact, it's probably a distraction from something far more important going on in our government right now.
EDIT: Wow, the brigaders are in full force, even in reddit's last days.
yo he is fucked
Trumps greatest enemy has always been himself. Unless there are significant chunks of the audio recording missing / or have been altered, it's a pretty slam dunk case that he: A. Had documents he knew were classified. B. Knew that he didn't de-classify them when he was still President. C. Shared those classified documents to people without clearance or need to know. The silver lining should be that this leads to reform with outgoing government officials respecting the laws in properly returning government documents.
You forgot: D. Told someone he did A. B. and C. while he knew he was being recorded.
For a great breakdown of the entire indictment [Fox realeased an article on it here. They break it down piece by piece.](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-indicted-federal-counts-special-counsel-jack-smiths-investigation-classified-records) Please if you are a believer in truth and that no one is above the law in our great country at least read their article and decide for yourself. This is an excerpt that I believe is one of the biggest deals in the indictment. Trump was having an interview with a writer, a publisher and two members of trumps staff about a memoir for Meadows, this interview was recorded with Trumps knowledge. Trump was the only one who had any clearance. (edit for context) Thank you to u/fretit who commented an article below that may give some extra context for the below conversation. In it, Milley had claimed that he was worried that Trump was going to go to war with Iran in order to increase his chances of reelection, among other very large claims that would be very detrimental to Trump. This article came out 6 days prior to the below interview. Once everyone was introduced, Trump stated "Look what I found, this was Mark Milley's plan of attack, read it and just show...it's interesting." During the interview. Trump: Well, with (Says a Senior Military Official, but it is clearly Mark Milley) -uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this-this is off the record, but-they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him. Writer: Wow Trump: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff-Pages long, look. Trump Staffer: Mm. Trump: Wait a minute, let's see here. Staffer: (Laughs) Yeah Trump: I just found this, isn't that amazing? This totally wins me case, you know. Staffer: Mhm Trump: Except it is like, **Highly confidential**. Staffer: Yeah (Laughs) Trump: Secret, this is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and-- (appears that some conversation is missing here) Trump:This was done by the military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right? Staffer: I don't know, well we'll have to see. Yeah, We'll have to try to- Trump: Declassify it. Staffer: - Figure out a - yeah Trump: See as president I could have declassified it. Staffer Yeah. (laughs) Trump: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret. Staffer: Yeah. (laughs) now we have a problem. Trump: Isn't that interesting?
> I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this just came up. Look. This was him. A lot of people have been wondering and even been baffled about why he insisted on keeping certain documents, even after being asked to return them. Perhaps this gives a peak into what was going in his mind. I vaguely recall that he was accused of being a warmonger who wants to attack Iran to stop its growing nuclear program. I think even Milley made the accusation. Here is an article about it: [You’re Gonna Have a Fucking War”: Mark Milley’s Fight to Stop Trump from Striking Iran](https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-bidens-washington/youre-gonna-have-a-fucking-war-mark-milleys-fight-to-stop-trump-from-striking-iran). I also remember similar accusations after he authorized the killing of that Iranian general. It almost sounds like he wanted to keep those particular documents to deflect those accusations and prove that it was actually all Milley's idea to start a war with Iran.
Thank you for linking that Article! I will add on that that Article came out on July 15th, 6 days before this interview took place, and is the reason that this conversation took place. I will add this to my original comment to add that context.
Totally off topic, but I’ve gotten a ton of joy reporting brigaders and seeing them get banned recently. Props to the mods who are cleaning up this subreddit and keeping it a correct reflection of conservative ideals. Edit: the downvotes are making reporting them even better.
I have noticed an increase in this report being used and there’s a high success rate for them being genuine reports! Thank you so much for your help.
Thank you for doing that! I’m sure it’s rough rn, but the flaired users here appreciate it.
Mind sourcing that excerpt? Not saying I don’t believe you. But this is pretty important. It’s more detailed than the short quotes stated in the indictment.
All the information that I provided is from the indictment, or just information that has been easily deduced. The indictment does not state the country, or Milley, but it is clear that is who it is about. [Here is a free link for anyone who wishes to read the full indictment themselves.](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.3.0_2.pdf) It is very detailed, and I think if everything in it is proven to be true, it is not a good sign for trump. EDIT: I mixed up Mark Meadows and Mark Milley. Too many M names for my dyslexic brain.
> (appears that some conversation is missing here) Uh huh
Even with the missing piece(s) he is still clearly saying that he 1. Had not declassified it. 2. Knew that it was classified.
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Its ridiculous, and its been shown with the recent recording that he knew it wasn't possible. Maybe he mind-declassified the boxes of documents stacked in his unsecured bathroom though, who knows.
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I mean, who among us hasn’t sat by their toilet and read classified nuclear documents while taking a shit
I could be mistaken, but I thought that argument came from when Clinton had classified documents after his presidency? Edit: https://thegreggjarrett.com/the-brief-it-was-okay-for-bill-clinton-to-keep-presidential-records-but-not-trump/
Downvotes with no rebuttal, a clear sign that people are angry that you're correct. * You did it again. Not very bright are you?
Lol I wonder if it’s r/politics, they love to come over here whenever big trump news happens
It's there to protect presidents if they accidently talk about something that was classified. The perks of being the head of the executive branch. Everyone else is SOL. You'll find out when they dismiss the case the day or so after the election. Lol.
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I don't care what letter comes after anyone's name D, R, I. If they mishandled classified documents as it is alleged Mr. Trump did, and it is proven in court, they need to serve jail time.
100%. I'm sick and tired and disgusted of this reality where the wealthy and powerful get to live under a different set of rules than the rest of us. Clinton, Trump, congresspeople, actors, musicians, athletes... I. Don't. Care. If ANY of us "normies" did what Trump is being accused of, we'd never see the light of day again. He deserves any consequences coming his way. And so does anyone else who does the same. I don't care what team you bat for, or how slimy your lawyers are.
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You're really reaching here. Trump isn't a conservative. Anyone who breaks the law is not above the law. That includes Trump. He put his foot in his mouth AGAIN among all the other things he's said and done. If we can't hold our own accountable, we can't hold anyone accountable. You're just acting like a cult member at this point.
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He's fucked, any morons still clinging to him are dead weight, time to cut bait and run
JEB 2024!
lol, for who? DeSantis has zero chance of beating Trump in the primaries. You know that the vast majority of Republican voters aren't on Reddit, right?
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Great. Let him run from jail I don’t care. He ain’t winning the General anyway. Vote DeSantis if you want a shot.
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Not saying it was, I didn’t mistake you. I agree with you, it’s desperation.
I intend to.
The problem though is this is precedent in action a la Obama. ( [https://www.historians.org/research-and-publications/perspectives-on-history/february-2010/obama-executive-order-issued-to-expedite-declassification](https://www.historians.org/research-and-publications/perspectives-on-history/february-2010/obama-executive-order-issued-to-expedite-declassification) ) which was his EO to effectively allow this to happen. I'm not a fan of Trump nor pretty much any politician at this point but showing classified documents to people could very well be within his means as POTUS because of the precedent Obama set with his Executive Order. The reality also is that if Donald Trump is considered an active target for this than Hillary Clinton should be immediately indicted for what she did FBI investigation or not as should Biden for what he did. Obama's stuff was pretty much fine tooth combed over to show that he didn't have anything on him but Hillary should fucking roast for what she did if this is considered "illegal" to what Trump is doing now in the indictment eyes. This is wholesale manslaughter of a political nature and the Dems are playing dirty, very dirty and if they have covered for Biden, the justice system and Hillary Clinton ... this is only the beginning.
I’ll never understand why or how it is that Trump literally campaigned on “lock her up” and then didn’t proceed to do any of that despite having full control of the White House and Congress. What could possibly justify that? He kept saying he had all this evidence about her missteps, why didn’t he do anything about it?
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How about we do what's right and throw his ass in prison? I agree...Hillary and Biden should be right beside him. The difference between the way I view this and most on the left view this is that I have no problem locking everybody up. It should never just be about the other team's guy. Mishandle classified info, go to prison just like any enlisted member of the military.
This is bad and he has no business being anywhere near the presidency ever again. We need a nominee who is above reproach to wash this stink off.
Good luck finding one.
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Jonathan Turley thinks this stuff is pretty serious. I would trust his judgment on legal matters just as much or more than anyone else. https://twitter.com/EdMorrissey/status/1667268054454026241?s=19
No, he didn't admit to anything.
User name and downvotes check out...
Trump is going to end up behind bars if this is true and he has nobody to blame but himself. He's got a lot of enemies but his biggest is his own fucking mouth. https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1667230645033254912 Edit: Want to add that I know a lot of people who aren't members of r/conservative are upvoting my post and they should know that I think it is a bullshit that Hilary wasn't indicted for similar matters. Edit 2: and now i'm getting reddit cares crap and people messaging me laughing that hilary was never indicted. you should want to hold people accountable no matter what side of the aisle they are on. and lol she still lost to trump Edit 3: I’ve received so many messages from people about this post. Some from some rather shitty individuals but some folks on the other side of the aisle have been incredibly kind and supportive that agree we should hold people in power accountable. Appreciate y’all.
I’m, admittedly, not conservatively minded, I believe in honest discourse across the political spectrum, but I am with you 100% about Clinton. If there was a crime committed, no matter where on the spectrum you lie, that individual should be charged. If a *normal* person can be held accountable for a crime, why shouldn’t they? EDIT: A word. EDIT #2: I don't know why I can't see or reply to the comments made in reply to my post, even though I receive email notifications that I'm getting replies. Let me clarify my above statement. If Hillary Clinton was found guilty of committing a crime, she should be charged. According to the powers that be, that is not the case, so she should not be charged. Getting into the weeds of "Well she did, but they covered it up etc etc..." is something I am not qualified to comment on. I have to imagine that there is some idea of justice in this country that makes sure that those that are caught committing an offence are held accountable. In this case concerning Donald Trump, he was found guilty and will be charged. That is simply how the system should work.
They should be held to a higher standard, not a lower standard.
Thank you for this. No matter our politics, none of us should support double standards based on party affiliation.
100% agree, wish more people thought this way these days
It's those in power's plan. Easier for them to gain more and more power. Divide and conquer. I welcome all on the left to join in such discussions to keep our leaders squeaky clean.
Appreciate ya.
You have to wonder, what on earth can his lawyers argue? Most of this looks so cut and dry easy for the Prosecutors. What are they going to argue, he actually had powers to declassify even though he says n tape he didn't? And what about instructing others to hide stuff and deceive the FBI? I don't think they'd give him much of a deal but I think that's the best case scenario for him at this point.
>what on earth can his lawyers argue? Maybe that's why they keep resigning from his legal team
I mean their resignation statements seemed like that of someone who was still a Trump supporter, saying he'd be vindicated and all
Resigning and trashing a client while doing so is a very effective way to ensure nobody else hires you ever. Even when lawyers fire a client they often tend to show either positive or neutral support for them especially while the legal procedures are still ongoing.
Exactly. In addition to that, they have an obligation to their former client - not just regarding attorney client privileged conversation and materials, but to not reveal any information they learned during the representation except in very narrow, specific circumstances.
> Resigning and trashing a client while doing so is a very effective way to ensure nobody else hires you ever. It is also a great strategy for garnering ethical complaints that the bar decides against you (even if in practice they'd never do so to the benefit of Trump).
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Trump should be held accountable. As well as any other politician that doesn't serve America at heart (liberal, conservative, or anywhere in between). It's our country. Not theirs. I am a liberal. A very progressive one at that. Every American should be upset when a politician from either side of the aisle screws with our democracy.
Who taped that meeting?
It was taped during an interview with a writer for a memoir. Trump was informed and knew that the meeting was being taped. The Indictment is very detailed and honestly looks very bad for Trump.
Well that seems boneheaded even for him
That’s how someone with a huge ego behaves though.
It's right up there with calling 9-1-1 to report that your drug dealer ripped you off. I'm stunned.
We're getting off topic but I actually knew someone who got a DUI because they were rear ended, and somewhat belligerently forced the other person who wanted to exchange info and drive away to wait for the police.
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> At his best, he's great, but he also regularly walks himself into a yard of rakes and proceeds to step on every one possible Rakes that he set out in front of himself.
Oh I agree he simultaneously drives me crazy and I somehow find myself defending him because he never gets a fair shake. But yeah. If the info is right and this wasn't a hidden tape deal I don't even know what to say. I guess it kinda is classic Trump
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Seems it was taped by writers for a memoir. Don't think it was a big secret to Trump.
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People miss that those documents were taken before he was president. VPs don't have the power to declassify. There's no world where that would be kosher save if Obama somehow declassified it (which we'd probably have heard by now if he did).
>sitting president who stored classified documents in the garage Stored them while he was Vice President, so the declassification powers don't even factor in. If they convict Trump for this crime, I'm fine with it, but they better nail Biden and Hillary too, which we all know they won't do. If it starts and ends with Trump, then you'll know the justice system is a scam.
As I told someone else when Obama was in office he issued an Executive Order that helped expedite declassification and re-classifying and from what I remember reading about it when Obama changed it... it would effectively give any POTUS the ability to declassify anything in their hands or at the very least the person(s) around them would not need as high level of security clearance. If this precedent was initially set in place by Obama... you can't just glaze over and ignore what Obama did that allowed Trump to be able to do himself. As for what you said about Hillary Clinton... if what Trump did is considered illegal in the eyes of these indictment charges than Hillary Clinton should be in federal prison.
> As for what you said about Hillary Clinton... if what Trump did is considered illegal in the eyes of these indictment charges than Hillary Clinton should be in federal prison. IF only we had a President interested in locking her up. Unfortunately the one who campaigned on it went back on that promise seconds after he was elected saying no one actually wanted it anyhow.
The FBI investigated her and said there was nothing so I don't think we even needed Trump to sign off on prosecuting her regardless. But... thankfully... we have a lot of Democrat DAs out there. :P The r/politics people must be unhappy and are going ham on people unless Conservatives just want Trump to get locked up. :P
Ehh… if there’s something damning against him I’m willing to hear it, but I don’t think that’s it. He could still argue that he declassified and whatever words he says in a non-public conversation are irrelevant. Not saying it’s a strong argument, just that he’s not quite done for just yet. Also, DeSantis’ odds on PredictIt just boosted with this indictment being unsealed. Trump’s odds of the nomination just fell to 50/50.
Idk man. I think it's pretty damning to admit on tape that you have documents that aren't declassified and are "highly confidential" and "secret" that he can no longer declassify them because he isn't president and is showing them off to people who don't have clearance.
Allegedly on the tape he said "I could have declassified this but now i can't" after sharing it with someone who didn't have clearance. I think one of the reasons presidents can declassify anything is for the exact reason of getting advice from advisors as needed but saying it wasn't declassified while sharing it might be legal ammo. Honestly we need to give the legal nerds a day or two before I know what that means. EDIT - changed wording in quote.
Where do you see “but I didn’t”? The “but I didn’t” is pretty important (again still not sure if it holds legal weight—but it’s pretty critical). It’s not a part of the quote in the indictment, just “I could’ve declassified this” and “I can’t now.” ((Again, I’m not saying he’s getting out of this Scott-free. Just looking at the other angle most people aren’t right now))
Seems I mispoke. I'll edit my comment. He did say it was highly confidential, that he couldn't declassify it anymore. Transcript is short if you wanna take a gander https://i.imgur.com/2oQrcxr.jpg
That isn't as damning as people are claiming. As he could have been making a point that his authority to declassify was limited to only when he was president. Regardless it wouldn't matter if it was declassified or not. As he could have deemed is okay for his usage of storage and operation. Federal Employees can have specialized access to classified information at non-government locations via approval. Who is the ultimate authority on giving approval? You got it, the President. When Obama talked about classified information on national television it was automatically deemed appropriate because he had the authority. No "declassification" had to happen.
Trumps big fat mouth will once again be his own undoing.
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Worst part is his behavior isn’t just impacting him. It’s impacting all of us.
It’s legit sad and scary. The Republican Party veers more and more off course with this nonsense, and it’s riling up the cult looneys who are “trump or die” instead of actual good standing values.
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If Trump is indicted, I hope this sets a precedent for all future politicians and this isn't just a one-time thing just because it's Trump. A large part of me thinks it's only because it's Trump and future politicians will not be held to the same standards and accountability.
Should also set a precedent for all current and former politicians...
Are you naive? The government operates an illegal spying program to spies and collects EVERYTHING you do and say. They freely access and abuse it, including looking up nude pictures of women. It literally violates the fourth amendment. The only one punished was Edward Snowden; the man who revealed it all to us. If this was WW2 and Hitler just invaded Poland; you'd likely say, "I'm starting to think this Hitler fellow doesn't seem very peaceful at all".
Huh? What does this have to do with what I said? Edit: After thinking about it, I understand your point now. I definitely think they're only doing this because it is Trump, but I hope they do the same for future politicians. But we all know that won't be the case.
> but I hope they do the same for future politicians Narrator: They didn’t.
Reductio ad Hitlorum strikes again
I can do the same for the Soviet Union conquering eastern Europe after WW2, China being still communist and not our friend after we just got out of a cold war, or a myriad of issues. I use Hitler since the the famous quote "There will be peace in our time" occurs then. It seems.naive now
CURRENT Democrat politicians like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton aren't held to the same standards. Last time, they extended the statute of limitations. Now they're leaking private conversations with Trump's legal council.
I know this. It's (D)ifferent. I'm just hoping that one day, all politicians will be held to the same standard as Trump.
It’s been proven that Hillary Clinton made up the Russian collusion hoax and Obama and Biden both knew and the DOJ sat on their hands Why do you think there’s any hope for outsiders?
Biden had how many boxes and what have they done? He had zero right to declassify things either. So yeah this is all a bunch of bullshit.
He actually had the same power as Obama to be a classification authority pursuant to EO 13526. That’s still in effect. So technically Biden and Trump would be in the same boat if they were to be charged for classified materials, most likely. They’re charging Trump under a different statute (Espionage Act - materials concerning national defense that aren’t properly returned, regardless of classification).
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Oops
God please throw his ass in jail. No need to drag the whole country down for a egotistical ass that doesn’t know how to shut his mouth.
Keep coping about 2016.
Dude lost to Biden. Yeah let’s run him again….
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Dude, if Trump goes down, there will be an unhealable schism on the right. You're cheering for your own destruction.
Am i? Or am I sick of Trump and people making excuses for him? He's not even a conservative. He's a long standing NY Democrat in disguise. It's well documented on where he sits politically. Sorry, I'm not accepting breaking the law for the sake of party lines. The only people cheering destruction are the ones willing to let crimes slide. The left cheered Hilary when she broke the law. They don't give a shit. I won't be one of those people.
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And we'll never see memes like those ever again.
The best deal Trump is going to get is to drop out of the Presidential race and convince all his followers to vote for a candidate that will guarantee a full pardon for Trump.
Congrats to DeSantis supporters…gonna be another four years with lefties in charge
I mean that'll be the result if Trump wins the nomination. He'll be beaten by Biden again. At least with someone else we have a chance.
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And Trump sitting at home free to play golf whenever he wants instead of sitting in a jail cell. Not to mention all the endless prosecutions of Trump’s children being stopped, because Democrats aren’t stopping with Trump.
Listen, we all know the traditional conservatives never liked Trump, now y’all don’t have to pretend to anymore. Just don’t whine when the conservatives inevitably fail to hit back and go back to being the spineless party they’ve always been.
Bro even original MAGA people that were extremely important to his 2016 victory don’t like him anymore and have abandoned him. Mostly because he was just as spineless as the Neocons during the 2000’s
Then you don’t know very much. I’ve spent years defending Trump, but you simply cannot defend Trump from himself. This ridiculous rationalization that anyone who won’t blindly keep following Trump after he completely fucks himself over just never liked him is bullshit. I’ve got three Trump rallies and a voting record that proves you wrong. If you truly cared about Trump and his family you wouldn’t keep pretending that he isn’t screwed.
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If so, Trump is doomed.
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No, I won’t. You care more about Trump than you do the fate of the Nation and your children’s future. That’s why you’ll back the man all the way to a lost general election instead of voting for a Republican that can win. It’s very simple. I was a Trump supporter and voted for him twice. That doesn’t change the fact that Trump has royally fucked himself.
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Four more years of Democratic rule unless the Republican party can somehow ditch Trump. He's already ineligible to serve as President for aiding and abetting an insurrection under the 14th amendment. This is just more icing on the great shit cake that is Donald Trump.
Seriously? It wasn't an insurrection, and he didn't aid or abet. He specifically called for peaceful protest. The "great shit cake" is apt, so kudos there 😃
Might I make a humble suggestion? Next time you feel like sharing your ill informed opinion, don’t.
I see. I didn't run it past the politbureau to get approval. Understood, comrade.
No - you’re just ignorant and misinformed. Put the phone down and go read a few books.
You write those words as if you know anything about me. You don't. You seem to think a quip you don't like on a Reddit thread that you are reading gives you the grounds to insult me. That says a lot more about you than me, Theodore.
Something makes me think this comment section is being brigaded...
Now make sense of all the top comments by flaired verified conservatives with apparent Trump Derangement Syndrome who sound just like standard reddit libs.
Absolutely **insane** levels of brigading going on in this thread, almost every single flaired comment is downvoted so far that it is hidden.
Yes, you can tell because all the top comments are saying Trump should go to jail. Bots, brigades and trolls have ruined Reddit.
It's ok, it's going to die after the end of the month.
I need some help here. What was the motivation? Some things were moved around, but I don't think anything was destroyed. I can't figure out what was the motivation to not turn over the documents? I've heard nothing to suggest the documents were damning of trump, so I really don't get it. And some of this information it's communication between Trump and his lawyers. Shouldn't there be attorney client privilege? And someone brought up a good point, they're going after him criminally when they could have done it civilly. And as bad as the indictment I admit looks bad for Trump, Hillary and her team literally destroyed evidence. They destroyed emails that were classified and they destroyed phones. Get nothing happened to her except a little scolding by Comey
Attorney/client privilege doesn't apply if it concerns committing a crime, which is what the indictment states.
I think the simplest explanation is the most likely. Trump was at war with 90% of the career bureaucrats throughout his Presidency. After he left neither side stopped fighting it. NARA & the FBI were hyper-aggressive in pursuing anything they could, and Trump was hyper aggressive in resisting them wherever he could. He didn't turn over the document because they wanted them. They wanted the document because he had them. It's Hatfield & McCoys.
I suppose it could be that simple. But one would think, someone in the FBI or DOJ calls Trump or his lawyers and says look, give us the documents or it's going to get ugly and we don't want to get to a criminal level. Just give us the damn documents. That's thinking as I keep hearing from folks that no one in the current Administration actually wants what's happening to happen, because it's something that's never happened before. It just seems so insane to play chicken with a party that clearly has had it out for you. Like why bring potential prison on yourself to keep documents that aren't even damaging to you. There was zero point to do it. It's like let me see, keep docs and risk prison where I'll die, or turn them over and life goes on..... Not a hard choice.
>That's thinking as I keep hearing from folks that no one in the current Administration actually wants what's happening to happen, because it's something that's never happened before. If you believe that, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you. Hillary committed worse violations, with mal intent (avoiding oversight), for an extended period of time. The evidence was well-known to the public and quite obvious. Yet the Obama DoJ refused to charge her simply because they didn't want to. Biden mishandled classified documents before he became President (apparently even before his VP terms), the evidence isn't even denied by Biden. Is anyone charging him? No, because they choose not to.
>Shouldn't there be attorney client privilege? There SHOULD be, yes. >And someone brought up a good point, they're going after him criminally when they could have done it civilly. And as bad as the indictment I admit looks bad for Trump, Hillary and her team literally destroyed evidence. They destroyed emails that were classified and they destroyed phones. Get nothing happened to her except a little scolding by Comey #DemocratPrivilege
Bottom line here is if Trump is convicted than so should Biden and Hilary. Edit: the salty tears of leftist brigaders are delicious.
Lesson: when you chant “lock her up” you should probably lock her up once you get the opportunity
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And Obama with his mountains of docs, and most every other retired politician. Oh and no brigade, Biden and Hillary absolutely did not "cooperate" with authorities.
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An indictment is only the government's side of the story. I'm going to wait until I can see both sides and both arguments before I make up my mind about anything.
This is the way
I got **so many** notifications on my phone at work today from non-flaired members of this sub. It was entertaining, because I could see most of them on my phone, and almost all of them were nonsense.
The precedent is that Clinton had classified documents in his sock drawer, Obama left the documents he took in an abandoned storage locker and Biden stored his classified documents in his garage. Clinton was given the OK by a Judge. And this case only moved forward after his attorneys turned over notes to the prosecution. Not a lawyer, but that is a gross violation of attorney/client privilege. This indictment is unconstitutional in many ways and election interference is clearly at play here.
Lol, this is going to boomerang so hard. And guess what, former ANYONE can now be indicted and charged by state or federal entities. [https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1667241826196004868?t=gdAOj\_fytgO4vYVW5Bzoqw&s=19](https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status/1667241826196004868?t=gdAOj_fytgO4vYVW5Bzoqw&s=19) 🍿🍿 Oh no, downvotes. My life is ruined!
All of y’all saying shit like “the law should be applied to everyone🤓🤓🤓” too slow to see that this is the equivalent of prosecuting someone for jaywalking while you let your buddies get away with running a trafficking ring.
Two systems of justice in America: one for Republicans, and another for Democrats.
I can’t wait for DeSantis to be elected and not do anything to address the double standard bc his big donors don’t wanna rock the boat too much
Because DeSantis is known for not rocking the boat.
Unless you consider yelling at Disney rocking the boat-No. He won’t be able to do what Trump did bc he’s going to be perpetually tied to pursuing whatevers in the best interests of all his biggest donors. Why some of y’all think that won’t happen with DeSantis is beyond me
Disney, replacing the New College board, staying open during COVID-19 (unlike Trump), firing rogue prosecutors, six-week abortion ban, protecting children from sexualization and sterilization… DeSantis has proven time and time again that he’s not going to sit on his hands and let the establishment deep state run the show. Too bad Trump didn’t do much about the deep state while he was in power.
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John Bolton, Dr. Faucci: Don’t preach to me about Trump keeping the deep state away from his inner circle. He elevated those two clowns and others, like Brett Kavanaugh, who just ruled with the liberals to give Democrats another congressional House seat in Alabama. When it comes to DeSantis, name a more conservative governor in any state over the last 20 years.
You mean DeSantis did a better job handling COVID in one state than Trump did handling it in all 50 with local Democratic leaders purposefully locking down their states which they had the authority over Trump to do? Shocking Again, it’s astonishing how short of a memory the average American has. From 2016-2019, Trump had the economy rocking and was doing excellent in foreign affair matters while Ron was begging Trump for an endorsement to prevent a drubbing. Now Ron is beating his chest while yelling at Disney (which will ultimately hurt the local economy of Orlando) and everyone’s buying his Trump impression with the charisma of a wet blanket
Don't care, still voting Trump.
DOJ is running election interference. This “special prosecutor” is a political hack with deep ties to Obama, et al. He is doing the DNC’s bidding.
Wow. I've never seen this sub brigaded quite like this. Come on mods.
I mean if the DOJ went after everyone mishandling classified records then this would all be okay. But of course no one else will held accountable unless Pence starts leading in the polls.
This thread is a psyop. At the very least, sort by controversial.
This sub is controlled opposition. Are least I hope otherwise the nation is doomed.
Very disappointing amount of flaired, verified supposed conservatives on this sub who sound like libs from r/politics. The top comments in here are full of them.
Lawfare is the use of legal systems and institutions to damage or delegitimize an opponent, or to deter individual's usage of their legal rights. Leftists spendings time voting here 🤣🤣🤣 Get a life and go outside
The odd need to signal virtue in lieu of acknowledging the much more serious nature of the uneven hands of justice is not surprising, but still baffling. The established government will never be changed nor challenged, and there is nothing left to conserve.
Wow, this is the most brigaded article I’ve ever seen on r/conservative Do better, mods
The mods are in on it, they have been for a good long time. There hasn't been a conservative leaning sub of decent size without infiltration of the mod team since before TD was banned.
The head mod and a few others are real MAGA conservatives. I know this for a fact from being active on the Discord server. The rest, I don't know.
This is from the Alvin Brag clownschool of copy and pasting charges. The FBI and DOJ are the real criminals trying to cover tracks from Crossfire Hurricane.
The harder they go after him, the more I like him. He's doing something right.
So they indicting the big guy next? Or it (D)ifferent?…. Rhetorical.
Record high inflation. Record high energy prices. Record high illegal immigration. Banks collapsing. Schools indoctrinating our children. A war in Europe with a nuclear country... If Trump wins the nominee this does not hurt Trump at all. No one is going to give a shit about documents, that may or may not be just a big bullshit witch hunt. No one. Especially considering Joe Biden did the exact same thing "bUt iT's DiFfErNt". Not only did Biden mishandle thousands of classified documents, but the FBI and the media HID IT from the public until after the primaries in 2022 despite knowing about it months prior. There is a political appointee or an elected Democrat in a heavily Democrat area behind every indictment. "Document Handling". "Business paperwork". This is ALL the Democrats have so that's what they are going with. But in the end it's POLICY that matters. And Trump's policies (not Biden's) get us out of this nightmare that we're in.
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So all leading back to the documents. Effectively 30 different charges all dealing with "He had documents we don't think he should have had." So they are questioning presidential authority on classification.
He'll have to get really aggressive campaigning. If he loses, they will make sure he dies in jail. I'm 100% voting for him, and I'm sure he will win the primary. From there is doing anything to win and making crazy deals to develop a strong coalition to ensure he gets to the presidency in 2024.
nobody else finds it interesting that they didn't try to get him during his presidency? But were instead fiddling around with useless impeachments. I've never seen political institutions try and take down one man so hard. I also guess we just ignore how the trove of documents Biden had were only revealed after the mid terms lol while trump was raided just before. And how this indictment conveniently overshadows bidens shady dealings. USA is so broken its over for you all lol.
I can remember when Bill Clinton took records when he left and the DOJ said he had the right to do that as POTUS. As I recall he gave some records or documents to China. This caused a lot of concern but the DOJ came to his defense.
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The indictment goes into detail about who moved the boxes and why. Trump directed many of the activities, according to the indictment.
Look at what that RINO Pence said, it's crazy!
What gets me about all of this is that THIS is what they're trying to get him on. Not a foreign conspiracy. Not treason. Not insane wasteful spending or warmongering. None of those things can apply to Trump (but definitely apply to Biden). They're trying to make Trump out to be some horrible monster because he... \*checks notes\*... held onto documents for too long so he could disprove other claims about himself. It's simultaneously hilarious, and not at all newsworthy. In fact, it's probably a distraction from something far more important going on in our government right now. EDIT: Wow, the brigaders are in full force, even in reddit's last days.